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Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer
Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer
Author: Legal Talk Network
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Thinking Like A Lawyer is a podcast featuring Above the Law's Joe Patrice, Kathryn Rubino, and Chris Williams. Each episode, the hosts will take a topic experienced and enjoyed by regular people, and shine it through the prism of a legal framework. This will either reveal an awesome rainbow of thought, or a disorienting kaleidoscope of issues. Either way, it should be fun.
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After taking a hacksaw to nearly a century's worth of congressionally approved independent agencies, the Supreme Court appeared to hit a wall during oral argument over Trump's attempted firing of Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook. The Unitary Executive Theory is all fun and games until the justices start worrying about their personal finances. Meanwhile, the Department of Justice now takes the position that the text of the Alien Enemies Act would have authorized the unilateral deportation of the Beatles and the Rolling Stones for being part of the "British Invasion." Finally, Willkie Farr hit with massive lawsuit alleging the firm helped out a former client's fraud.
Supreme Court hacking and the end of a Biglaw era.
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The Biglaw world continues to watch single-tier partnerships slip away with Sullivan & Cromwell joining the income partner trend. Will the industry have any single-tier firms left by the end of the year? Also former Senator and current Hogan Lovells lawyer Kyrsten Sinema tagged with an alienation of affection tort from her former bodyguard's soon-to-be ex-wife. Come for the bad soap opera plot, stay for the MDMA-inspired psychedelic trip allegations. Finally, the Supreme Court got hacked, but federal law enforcement managed, a couple years after the fact, to track down the culprit whose social media handle was "ihackedthegovernment." Cracker jack work all around.
And Judge Ho's auditioning for MAGA favor takes a disgusting turn.
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With polls showing more Americans now favor abolishing ICE than keeping it, a lot of people will be disappointed to learn that the law is set up to make it almost impossible to hold anyone accountable for killing Renee Good. From sovereign immunity, to the Federal Officer Removal Statute, to the decline of Bivens, to qualified immunity, the whole system is arrayed to shield federal agents from legal redress. Speaking of the Minnesota ICE surge, we moved a step closer to a genuine Third Amendment case after the Department of Homeland Security pressured Hilton Hotels into dropping a franchisee that had refused to rent rooms to DHS. And finally, Judge James Ho published a broadside against fellow judges in his bid to reach the top of the Trump administration's Supreme Court wishlist. And all he had to do was mock judges receiving violent threats and dishonor a judge's murdered son.
Welcome to another dumpster fire of a year.
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We begin the year by peering into our crystal balls and issuing some predictions for 2026. Who will be fired? What's going to happen with law schools? Is a big change on the horizon for Biglaw? Our predictions will inevitably be wrong, but we'll offer them with a lot of confidence -- just like AI would.
Also a whole lot of sports talk for a law podcast.
Three trends dominated this year's coverage.
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We've made it to the end of the year! And what do we have to show for it as a profession? Our most elite law firms signed deals rather than stand up for themselves in the face of illegal Trump bullying efforts. Others quietly tried to erase their history to avoid the administration's ire. But some firms did fight back and achieved consistent success in court, while the dealmakers got heckled and derided by young lawyers. And, as anyone who has ever watched Star Wars knows, deals with authoritarians just get worse all the time. The New York Times even wrote a feature on a certain publication covering this story.
We also ran headlong into a constitutional crisis marked by DOJ lawyers lying to courts -- when the DOJ even bothers to field lawyers legally -- senior government officials declaring "war" on federal judges, and judges being arrested. As right-wing threats against federal judges escalated, the Supreme Court responded with disinterest, preferring to fan the flames with nakedly partisan shadow docket rulings to grease the wheels of Trump's assault on the structure of government. And, finally, we look at the year of AI in legal. Hallucinations dominated the conversation -- from law firms and judges alike -- but this was also the year legal tech made huge bets on AI and folks started to realize that the profession can't avoid the technology. The billable hour may finally be on the decline, but does AI risk making lawyers dumber?
Ho ho ho...gan Lovells merging.
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A critical analysis of the best variety of Coca-Cola product gives way to a conversation about law this week. Cadwalader ends its tumultuous year -- involving a Trump administration capitulation and a series of defections -- with a big quasi-transatlantic merger announcement with cross-Pond Hogan Lovells. Christmas came early -- to the extent anyone thinks of U.S. News law school rankings as "Christmas" -- with a prediction about the new law school pecking order. And it looks like garbage at a time when those rankings may be more important than ever. Also, ICE appears to be publishing an enemies list? That doesn't seem great. All that and some thoughts on Alan Dershowitz writing a new book suggesting Trump might be able to get a third term despite the clear text of the Constitution.
If you want 2025 in a nutshell, it doesn't get much better than a blundering Secretary of Defense bragging that the Pentagon bought an expensive, bespoke AI bot and it immediately started calling out the Trump administration for committing war crimes. As the legal industry ventures into a hallucinatory AI frontier, it's worth remembering that sometimes the bots outperform the human lawyers. At the Supreme Court, Justice Sotomayor tries to convince her colleagues not to blow up the federal government over a theory concocted in the 1970s. Sadly, she's fighting the wrong fight. And in a world of mergers -- especially cross-border mergers -- we have a reminder that sometimes it doesn't work out.
And the DOJ continues to be a hot mess.
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Kim Kardashian is trying to enter the legal profession without a law school education. The bar exam is a deeply flawed and largely unnecessary test, but the best case for having some kind of licensing exam is to make sure anyone taking an alternative path to a law license meets the minimum requirements for a lawyer. Meanwhile, the Trump administration continues to oscillate between bluster and blunder. Lindsey Halligan's doomed reign as quasi U.S. Attorney draws an ethics complaint. Luckily for her, the Virginia State Bar has no interest in doing its job. And Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche is threatening lawyers to stop pointing out DOJ mistakes.
And a shorter summer associate program.
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While most of us celebrated Thanksgiving, some of Trump's phony U.S. Attorneys were the real turkeys. First, a conservative leaning panel of the Eleventh Circuit affirmed the million dollar sanctions against Donald Trump and the parking garage lawyer he claims to have running the District of New Jersey. Then his Eastern District cosplaying prosecutor managed to lose not one, but two of the high profile revenge cases she brought. In other news, a major firm announced a new look summer associate program as it tries to deal with the law school recruiting free-for-all that everyone hates, yet no one seems able to do anything about.
Bonuses and botched prosecutions.
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Bonus season is underway, and Biglaw firms are lining up to reward associates for a year's worth of effort. The market scale -- unless some firm breaks rank and crashes the party -- tracks last year, which can be a bit anticlimactic, but with the economy possibly resting on the precipice of recession, this was probably all we could hope for. Also, we discuss Lindsey Halligan's epic fail in the James Comey case -- and we recorded this before the judge tossed the case. Finally, Judge Jerry Smith decided to commit his unhinged conspiracy theories to paper in a massive, doorstop of a dissent in the Texas redistricting case. And we discuss Thanksgiving sides.
But seriously, what would be a good legal dominatrix name?
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Biglaw recruiting director out after racist rant goes public. A squabble between lawyers and their former firm presents important lessons on document management, but we spend most of the time wondering about the best legally themed dominatrix names. And we talk about Paul Weiss getting heckled at the New York Bar Foundation awards gala, providing one more embarrassing story to a rough year.
And Kirkland tries a little tenderness. FedSoc does not.
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The news that Kirkland had to teach its lawyers how to stop being mean to the private equity industry is incredibly funny. We're not saying Kirkland is getting a bad rap here, but when did corporate clients become such fragile snowflakes? The Federalist Society's annual meeting brought together the leading minds of the Trump legal movement to call for a "war" to impeach the federal judges -- many of them longtime conservatives themselves -- for not appropriately facilitating the administration. And the DOJ completes its humiliation in the D.C. sandwich thrower case by failing to secure even a misdemeanor conviction.
DOJ punishing lawyers, the future of the billable hour, and dark times for public interest work.
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We talk about the DOJ lawyers suspended by the White House for calling January 6 a riot in a sentencing memo. and the conversation veers down a rabbit hole about the proper role of pardons. For years, the billable hour seemed like the cockroach of law firm management, but after surviving numerous brushes with death, AI might finally force firms to look into alternative fee structures. And if you're in law school and thinking about serving the public interest, expect it to be a lot more expensive unless your future employer is blessed by the Trump administration.
And a Biglaw firm seeks help while an in-house attorney blows up her career.
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Catching up with the slice of the conservative legal movement who have stared into the moral abyss of the Trump administration and recoiled in horror. The Society for the Rule of Law held its annual summit and while many attendees voiced clear-eyed opposition, some continued to grapple with the cognitive dissonance in recognizing that Trump might be the natural and logical consequence of their own long championed conservative projects. One attendee who has no illusions over the gravity of the threat though was Judge Michael Luttig who railed against the Supreme Court in the legal equivalent of a rousing halftime locker room speech. Also, Cadwalader seems increasingly at an existential crossroads and looking for a merger partner. And a lawyer loses her job over ballpark rant -- and what's more, her team lost.
Also frivolous lawsuits and the insidiousness of dishonest analysis.
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Appeals court decides that some things are best left unsaid. And among those things are calling your judge the c-word. Just so we're clear, even though this was over Zoom, we're not talking about "cat." After trying to bully Michigan Law Review through litigation, the anti-DEI publicity hounds at FASORP have dropped the case. And with Trump inching closer to declaring martial law in America's cities, right-leaning legal analysts have started the process of normalizing abuse of the Insurrection Act by pretending its strict limits are really just open-ended invitations and if anyone's to blame for Donald Trump's authoritarianism, it's really Joe Biden. We manage to talk about AI and Baudrillard in a single episode.
Just in time for the AI slop to take over.
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Some law firms are handing out recruiting entertainment budgets to law students. While we don't fault law students some sweet walking around money, placing that power in the hands of students highlights the breakdown in the law school recruiting process and a real risk of baking more bias into hiring. Why has Kirkland memory holes its incoming partner class? The decision to opt out of its traditional announcement message seems like a move to shield its high-achievers, but there are some other possibilities. And a Senator wants some answers after a pair of federal judges issue opinions with possible (read: likely) AI hallucinations.
One can only hope.
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For a long time, the bar exam seemed like the nasty habit that the legal profession just couldn't quit. But there's finally some progress on that front, with Utah unveiling a new alternative pathway to licensure that values experience and the skills that an actual practitioner needs. We also check in on Cadwalader, where the firm brings on a new co-manager while taking some serious blows in the lateral market. Finally, the Supreme Court is back in session, so we look back at the summer of shadows, when the Court's shadow docket finally crashed into the reality of a president unwilling to play the game and Justice Thomas shed a little light on his decision to bail on teaching his class after Dobbs.
Biglaw capitulators face new challenge and James Comey gets indicted.
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Perennially embattled Cooley Law School once again called out by the ABA over sagging bar passage rates. The school has been out of compliance with ABA standards since 2020, and now finds itself on probation with its accreditor. The last time something like this happened, Cooley sued the ABA into relenting. History is a flat circle. After learning that Paul Weiss and Kirkland were providing free legal services to the Commerce Department, presumably in an effort to satisfy their pro bono payola obligations, we wondered how this could possibly be legal in light of 31 U.S.C. 1342. Apparently, lawmakers wondered the same thing. And James Comey finds himself indicted after a whirlwind that involved removing the existing top federal prosecutor for refusing to file a sham case and replacing him with an in-over-her-head Florida insurance lawyer.
Law firm fires lawyer over Kirk comments and law school announces new scholarships.
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Perkins Coie cut ties with an attorney over Charlie Kirk comments on social media. The remarks were measured and reasonable, but the firm is still fighting the Trump administration in court and -- seemingly -- does not want any distractions or mere appearance of bias. But is that a worthy excuse? A Pillsbury partner received a benchslapping over what the judge considered unchecked entitlement. A Biglaw partner? Entitled? No! Also, a law school responds to the new federal loan caps with guaranteed scholarships to cover the gap. Is this the start of a trend?
Compare and contrast as ACB and Sotomayor ride (media) circuit.
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Amy Coney Barrett and Sonia Sotomayor are both hitting the talk shows and it's highlighting how awkward the nation's relationship with the Supreme Court really is. Barrett went on Fox and accurately stated that the Constitution prohibits Trump running for a third term. Then the host offered a "wink wink" prompt and she started backpedaling. Meanwhile, Sotomayor went on Colbert and bent over backward to give her conservative colleagues the benefit of the doubt, requiring Colbert to step in and remind us of the fire in Sotomayor's dissent. Two very different media hits, but a consistent reminder that the justices just aren't willing to forge a genuine connection with the public over media. Also, Ropes & Gray maintains a single-tier partnership (for now) and Megan Thee Stallion case introduces the world to process servers taking things up a notch.




A very low-density podcast. Is that what it's like to think like a lawyer? Pass.
You may choose to major in subjects that are considered to be traditional preparation for law school, such as history, English, philosophy, political science, economics or business, or you may focus your undergraduate studies in areas as diverse as art, music, science and mathematics, computer science, engineering, https://legalfav.com/
@19:31: The obligatory invocation of "diversity issues" here was pretty flippantly made, given the seriousness of the accusation. As good lawyers, you avoided making a precise claim, but the implied accusation was clear: that bias exists in the tests. However, this undercuts other claims that the bias exists in society (such that it should be accurately reflected in a test). Moreover, neither of those competing claims addresses why such biases largely disappear when we control for socio-economic status. Never mind all of that, though; you have successfully virtue-signalled.
Another Awesome Podcast and Security is your first priority and everything is not always straight forward. Thanks so much for sharing Deb .👍✌
Excellent Podcast and no one has to be stuck with one place and can move on to some where else later in time.Things change Quickly. Thanks so much for sharing Deb 😉✌
haha trump bad orange fans stoopid
Very insightful generally. As a non-American though it can be somewhat opaque due to jargon and a requirement of assumed knowledge re popular American personalities. Still love it though even though it isn't Law in Action
This podcast is outstanding. I am not a lawyer, yet this is funny, insightful, educational, and wonderfully irreverent!