Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer
Above the Law - Thinking Like a LawyerSubscribed: 2,941Played: 51,397
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Thinking Like A Lawyer is a podcast featuring Above the Law's Joe Patrice, Kathryn Rubino, and Chris Williams. Each episode, the hosts will take a topic experienced and enjoyed by regular people, and shine it through the prism of a legal framework. This will either reveal an awesome rainbow of thought, or a disorienting kaleidoscope of issues. Either way, it should be fun.
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Let's see if it pays off as well as a billionaire covering up an affair.
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Donald Trump's hush money trial kicks off after a week of Trump alienating everyone involved in the process by refusing to respect basic decorum and attempting to skirt the gag order by arguing that RTs aren't endorsements. The Am Law 100 is also out and we talk through some of the key takeaways and Judge Ho tried to defend his take on forum shopping and it's... not good.
We continue breaking down the U.S. News & World Report law school rankings and the chaos that its new methodology introduced. And we know exactly who to blame for breaking these rankings. Elon Musk recently went in for a deposition defended by Quinn Emanuel's Alex Spiro and earned a motion for sanctions. And a Berkeley Law protest goes viral, but all the "free speech" talk misses the mark.
Haphazard ranking serves as a reminder that service hasn't quite found the right formula after law schools started withdrawing their data.
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The full U.S. News & World Report law school rankings are out and they are... something. Duke is tied with Harvard? NYU nearly drops out of the top 10? Are we just hurling darts at a dartboard here? In a sense, yes. At least ever since law schools started withdrawing their cooperation. Meanwhile, a Biglaw firm tried to promote healthy sleep despite being the primary reason associates don't sleep and Trump's bond in the NY civil fraud case looks a little suspect.
Breaking down the action-packed final week of March.
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Special guest Liz Dye joins us to talk about the week that was. First, we delve into the abortion pill oral argument where even most of the conservatives scoffed at the right-wing effort to let an Amarillo courthouse second-guess the FDA on science. Almost as though the Chief Justice just tried to crack down on that practice. But along the way Neil Gorsuch showed off his (lack of) research skills and Alito and Thomas sought to revive the legal legacy of a chronic self-pleasurer. Then we check out the end of the showdown between Ron DeSantis and Disney that looks like a major victory for DeSantis until you, ya know, actually read the settlement agreement. Finally, Trump's got another gag order and went straight to work setting up the inevitable contempt hearing over it.
Conservative justices can't stop telling on themselves when it comes to forum shopping.
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Joe Biden says he got a standing ovation for trying to BS his way through a law school cold call. We call BS on that. Also Cooley Law School finds itself at the bottom of the heap when it comes to bar passage rates again. At some point, the ABA has to step in... right? Finally, the nation's judges did something about politicized forum shopping and right-wingers can't stop help but crying about how they miss their cheat code.
Parental leave and a bumbling Supreme Court highlight the week.
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Are law firms going to get stingy with parental leave? While most firms report solid revenue, sparking resentment over a few weeks of leave seems like a weird strategy, but DLA Piper recently cut back on the leave available to non-birthing parents. It's a first as far as Above the Law can tell, but will it be the last? Also, the Supreme Court screwed up its metadata, committing an error that would get junior associates fired. And finally, Joe Biden offered the Court some tough talk... by quoting them.
Bond... unaffordable cash bond.
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Donald Trump needed to put up some cash before E. Jean Carroll can begin executed the judgment she has against him. Instead, Trump tried to argue that he was simply too rich to put up a bond. The argument was not persuasive, but it did get Above the Law mentioned on Stephen Colbert. We also discuss the Supreme Court taking up the Trump immunity case even though there's not a chance they'll endorse his theory. And when should we just let bygones be bygones with a lawyer's bigoted past? A law professor says everyone is way too hard on Thomas's new clerk just because she got fired from a past right-wing organization after racist messages came to light.
Another firm begins cracking down on office attendance through punishment. Law firms want lawyers back in the office, but if they don't want associates spending that office time fielding calls from recruiters, it's time to consider incentives that treat lawyers like professionals. A Bush judge questioned Trump's manhood and Amy Wax fights back against the slap on the wrist Penn prepared to give her.
The Alabama Supreme Court ruled that frozen embryos are living children for the purposes of Alabama law. And while there are a lot of serious implications for the future of family fertility efforts, let's take a second to consider how much this absolutely breaks the state's rule against perpetuities. An attorney in the YSL case faces gang charges herself. She's made some... marketing decisions. Hogan Lovells must ponder whether invoking the wrath of ancient Roman poltergeists are worth a prime office location. Has anyone considered just working from home?
Even-keeled professionalism may pay off over time, but being a mercurial lunatic always pays off now.
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Former Trump aide Stephen Miller used Super Bowl week to launch a stunt employment discrimination complaint against the NFL. The rule in question is the subject of a much better legal challenge that it doesn't do ENOUGH to address anti-Black discrimination, but nothing about Miller's legal moves have much connection to reality -- up to and including the fact that he IS NOT A LAWYER. The Supreme Court heard oral argument in the insurrection case and Chief John Roberts hasn't shown his complete ignorance of basic facts about American elections since Shelby County. Finally, Judge Aileen Cannon receives motion to reconsider, the boldest litigation move of all since it requires counsel so confident in their eventual success that they're willing to call the trial judge a moron.
We're reaching peak Alina saturation.
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Last week may have officially been "Legalweek" but it was bad lawyer week at Above the Law, where Alina Habba dominated traffic with her ongoing futility. Her rapid retreat from the very phony "it's actually bias that so many prominent lawyers all worked at Paul Weiss" motion after being informed of the very real sanctions that could result. Robbie Kaplan, one of the Paul Weiss alumni in question, also shared her story of Donald Trump pulling out the half-clever schoolyard insults. We also discuss a firm that announced it would lay off 1/3 of the first years... but not say which ones! And we talk a little about Legalweek and how AI isn't quite ready for primetime... even as lawyers keep getting in trouble for trying.
Sometimes you can't actually fake being smart.
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Alina Habba may soon be replaced in the Trump legal team constellation, but we'll always have memories of her crackerjack legal analysis and the stupid swimsuit debate. There are four justices who don't seem to care about the Supremacy Clause. And Davis Polk faced -- and successfully beat -- a discrimination suit.
'The only rules are there are no rules' apparently doesn't fly in Judge Kaplan's courtroom.
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We don't even talk about Alina Habba's weird swimsuit thing on the show because it broke after we wrapped recording (next week, I guess!), but we have more than enough material discussing Trump's lawyer bumble through basic courtroom procedure and lodge motions for bad court thingies in the proud tradition of the Simpsons' greatest character. We also discuss a racial discrimination lawsuit against Troutman Pepper and whether "the partner is always a jerk" is a defense. And it looks like the federal courts have opened an investigation into Clarence Thomas... which will probably go nowhere.
Who needs a judge's approval to start ranting in court? Every other person ever, you say?
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Donald Trump's legal team informed Justice Arthur Engoron that their client would deliver closing remarks in violation of basic New York rules, setting off a series of decreasingly coherent emails with the judge over Trump's willingness to abide by the constraints of a closing argument. He was not willing to... but he went ahead and did it anyway. Meanwhile, Slaughter & May joined the ranks of firms trying to crack down on lawyers ducking the office using all its surveillance powers and another firm that announced matching bonuses has instituted a retroactive hours requirement to bait and switch its attorneys.
Maybe GPT-5 will want a free RV?
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The Chief spent his entire annual report on the federal judiciary on the rise of artificial intelligence and how AI cannot possibly replace judges because the judge is so much harder and more nuanced than, say, calling balls and strikes. Not that anyone would be stupid enough to describe being a judge like that. Steven Calabresi has either lost his mind or is engaged in an epic troll with a series of pieces arguing that Clarence Thomas is the bestest and most incorruptible justice ever! Finally, plagiarism is all over the news for mostly bad faith reasons, but it highlights again that the law isn't easily governed by rules of plagiarism and copying by design.
The highs and mostly lows from the year that was.
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As we turn the page to 2024, we reminisce over the top stories at Above the Law over the past year. Layoffs, salary hikes, ethical quagmires at the Supreme Court, Donald Trump's criminal cases... the legal industry provided a lot of fodder for Above the Law this past year. Join Thinking Like A Lawyer as we discuss all the big stories of the year and ask the question: can it get any worse than this year? (Hint: it can).
Law firms may hem and haw about raises, but they're still doing more than all right for themselves. Rudy's defamation trial did not go well. Before the latest development in the case, we talked about Michael Cohen's fake case brief and the implications of legal technology on criminal justice.
No one wants to admit weakness, but K&L Gates trying to put a smiling face on layoffs left a lot of observers cold. Meanwhile, Stephen Miller is mongering about a conspiracy to make Taylor Swift famous that somehow doesn't revolve around her talent. And Joshua Wright has brought a lawsuit against ASS Law despite still failing to understand that his problems are all in the mirror.
Payable sometime in 2024... of course.
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Milbank got the ball rolling several weeks ago with a round of raises. Cravath has now upped the ante for more senior associates and the Biglaw landscape has finally decided to pile on. Where is all this going and what does it all mean? We've got thoughts. Meanwhile Amy Wax went ahead and invited a white nationalist back to campus and one of her students is disappointed that people weren't nicer about it. Finally, a new lawsuit presents an ethics issue spotter involving Trump lawyer Alina Habba.
Elon Musk files a facially ludicrous lawsuit and Trump argues that sexual assault doesn't count on airplanes
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After promising a thermonuclear lawsuit against Media Matters, Elon Musk showed up to court with a string of claims that would fail under his own recitation of facts. Meanwhile, Donald Trump takes aim at the Federal Rules of Evidence in a bid to undermine the E. Jean Carroll case and Stephen Miller goes after Macy's in a cheap publicity stunt.
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A very low-density podcast. Is that what it's like to think like a lawyer? Pass.
You may choose to major in subjects that are considered to be traditional preparation for law school, such as history, English, philosophy, political science, economics or business, or you may focus your undergraduate studies in areas as diverse as art, music, science and mathematics, computer science, engineering, https://legalfav.com/
@19:31: The obligatory invocation of "diversity issues" here was pretty flippantly made, given the seriousness of the accusation. As good lawyers, you avoided making a precise claim, but the implied accusation was clear: that bias exists in the tests. However, this undercuts other claims that the bias exists in society (such that it should be accurately reflected in a test). Moreover, neither of those competing claims addresses why such biases largely disappear when we control for socio-economic status. Never mind all of that, though; you have successfully virtue-signalled.
Another Awesome Podcast and Security is your first priority and everything is not always straight forward. Thanks so much for sharing Deb .👍✌
Excellent Podcast and no one has to be stuck with one place and can move on to some where else later in time.Things change Quickly. Thanks so much for sharing Deb 😉✌
haha trump bad orange fans stoopid
Very insightful generally. As a non-American though it can be somewhat opaque due to jargon and a requirement of assumed knowledge re popular American personalities. Still love it though even though it isn't Law in Action
This podcast is outstanding. I am not a lawyer, yet this is funny, insightful, educational, and wonderfully irreverent!