MERICS China Podcast

In this year’s government work report at the National People's Congress, the issue of science and technology was mentioned more often than any other. Why does the Chinese government put so much focus on science and technology? What does this mean for other pressing issues that the Communist Party is facing? And what does it mean for Europe and the United States? To discuss these questions Johannes Heller-John is joined by Barry Naughton and Jeroen Groenewegen-Lau. Barry Naughton is So Kwan Lok Chair of Chinese International Affairs at the School of Global Policy and Strategy UC San Diego and co-leading research on China’s science, technology, innovation, and industrial policy at the University of California Institute on Global Conflict and Cooperation (IGCC). Jeroen Groenewegen-Lau is Head of Program of “Science, Technology and Innovation” at MERICS, and his research focuses on strategic emerging industries, research collaboration and tech transfers. MERICS and the IGCC are working together on China’s innovation ecosystem, which already led to a conference and a series of Policy Briefs on the issue.

The National People's Congress (NPC), China's top legislature, has held its yearly session in Beijing from the 5th to the 11th of March. This episode looks at what we have learned from this year's NPC and its repercussions for China and Europe. Johannes Heller-John is joined by MERICS Lead Analysts Nis Grünberg and Jacob Gunter. They argue that science and technology as well as security took precedence over socio-economic issues. 

The high-level EU-China people-to-people dialogue is planned to be resumed this spring. The last installment happened in 2020, and this podcast episode looks at the relevance and aims of the format and what might be considered as a successful outcome. Claudia Wessling, MERICS Director of Communications and Publications, is joined by Jean-Louis Rocca, Katja Drinhausen and Abigaël Vasselier. Jean-Louis is a professor at the renowned Sciences Po University in Paris, and a member of the EU-funded project China Horizons – Dealing with a resurgent China, a project that MERICS is part of as well. Katja is the Head of Program for our Politics and Society research team at MERICS and Abigaël is a Director for Policy and European Affairs at the institute.This podcast episode is part of the “Dealing with a Resurgent China” (DWARC) project, which has received funding from the European Union’s Horizon Europe research and innovation programme under grant agreement number 101061700. Views and opinions expressed are however those of the author(s) only and do not necessarily reflect those of the European Union. Neither the European Union nor the granting authority can be held responsible for them.

Obtaining crucial information from and on China is becoming increasingly difficult for governments, businesses and researchers alike. “Geopolitics is a big factor,” says MERICS Associate Fellow Vincent Brussee “but there are many other dynamics that are intrinsically tied to how the Chinese political system works.”He is the co-author of a recent MERICS report on the topic and joins Johannes Heller-John in this episode. Vincent is a PhD Candidate at Leiden University and author of the book “Social Credit: The Warring States of China’s Emerging Data Empire”. You can find the report “The increasing challenge of obtaining information from Xi's China” by Vincent Brussee and Kai von Carnap here.

Beijing’s industrial policy increasingly puts the focus on the cultivation of high-tech small and medium sized enterprises (SMEs). This MERICS Podcast episode looks at the emergence of China’s “Little Giants,” as well as Beijing’s goals, key policies, and implications for foreign companies. We also delve into developments in medical technologies, one of the key sectors outlined in the “Made in China 2025” strategy. Christine Krüger talks with MERICS analysts Alexander Brown and François Chimits. They are the co-authors of two MERICS reports on the topic: “Accelerator state: How China fosters ‘Little Giant’ companies” and “Investigating state support for China’s medical technology companies.”

What are the most pressing issues in EU-China relations in 2024? What does Europe need to focus on in managing relations with China? How might China seek to exploit the campaign season, in which Europe will be preoccupied with its own problems? In this podcast, Abigaël Vasselier, Director Policy & European Affairs/Head of Program Foreign Relations at MERICS, discusses these and other questions with Claudia Wessling, Director Communications and Publications.This podcast episode is part of the “Dealing with a Resurgent China” (DWARC) project, which has received funding from the European Union’s Horizon Europe research and innovation programme under grant agreement number 101061700. Views and opinions expressed are however those of the author(s) only and do not necessarily reflect those of the European Union. Neither the European Union nor the granting authority can be held responsible for them.

Shortly before the presidential elections on January 13, author and journalist – and former MERICS Senior Policy Fellow – Angela Köckritz travelled to Taiwan to follow the debates on the ground. In this MERICS podcast, she talks to Claudia Wessling about an exciting head-to-head race, Taiwan's approaches to deal with increasing disinformation and fake news from China and the debate about military service and defense policies. She recently wrote a MERICS Report on China’s disinformation offensive in Taiwan.

China is an important source of cyberattacks on Europe and institutional changes have created a more flexible and sophisticated state-affiliated Chinese hacking scene. What differentiates Chinese hacking from that of other actors? What are its goals? And how can we deal with it?Antonia Hmaidi, Analyst at MERICS with a focus on China’s internet infrastructure and its disinformation and hacking campaigns, is joining Johannes Heller-John to answer these questions. Antonia is the author of a recent study called “Here to stay” – Chinese state-affiliated hacking for strategic goals”.

European countries have become more aligned on how to deal with China in the past years, but national approaches towards the country still vary. In this episode, we zoom in on Austria, Denmark, and Ireland and how their relationships with China have evolved, how they work with Brussels on China issues, and what is in store for the near future.Johannes Heller-John is joined by Alexander Davey, analyst at MERICS, Lucas Erlbacher, research associate with the Austrian Institute for European and Security Studies, and Andreas Forsby, senior researcher with the Danish Institute for International Studies. They contributed the country chapters for Ireland, Austria, and Denmark, respectively, in the most recent report of the European Thinktank Network on China (ETNC).

In July 2023, Spain took over the presidency of the council of the European Union, the first transfer of this position since the introduction of de-risking into the bloc’s relationship with China. Johannes Heller-John talks with Mario Esteban, full professor at the Centre for East Asian Studies of the Autonomous University of Madrid and Senior Analyst at the Elcano Royal Institute, about the Spanish-China relationship, the role of China during Spain’s Council Presidency and the Agenda of the upcoming EU-China Summit. Together with his colleague Hugo Armanini, Mario wrote the chapter on Spain in this year’s report by the European Think-tank Network on China (ETNC).

The EU-China Summit on December 7-8 in Beijing will see EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen and European Council President Charles Michel meet Chinese President Xi Jinping, while Premier Li Qiang is expected to chair. It is the first summit in this format held in person in four years. It takes place in a difficult geopolitical environment where China’s relations with the EU as well as the US are marred by thorny issues like the Russian invasion of Ukraine, tensions over Taiwan, and disagreements about market access.What issues are likely to be on the agenda? What outcomes can we expect? And what is on the table in EU-China relations in 2024? To discuss these questions, Claudia Wessling is joined by Abigaël Vasselier, Director Policy & European Affairs and Head of Program of the MERICS research team on China’s Foreign Relations. In her previous position, Abigaël worked as Deputy Head of Division for China, Hong Kong, Macao, Taiwan and Mongolia at the European External Action Service (EEAS). This podcast episode is part of the “Dealing with a Resurgent China” (DWARC) project, which has received funding from the European Union’s Horizon Europe research and innovation programme under grant agreement number 101061700.Views and opinions expressed are however those of the author(s) only and do not necessarily reflect those of the European Union. Neither the European Union nor the granting authority can be held responsible for them.

How have Chinese attempts to shape the public opinion in Europe evolved? How does it differ from Russian disinformation? And how does the EU try to counter it? In this episode of the MERICS China Podcast, Johannes Heller-John talks to Ivana Karásková and Grzegorz Stec. Ivana is a European China Policy Fellow at MERICS and the founder of projects MapInfluenCE and China Observers in Central and Eastern Europe (CHOICE) at Association for International Affairs (AMO) in Prague. She is also a Special Advisor to Vice-President of the European Commission Věra Jourová, for the preparation of the Defense of Democracy package. Grzegorz Stec is Analyst in the Brussels Bureau of MERICS.Together with Katja Drinhausen and Mareike Ohlberg, they are the authors of the recent MERICS Report “Image control: How China struggles for discourse power”. This podcast episode, as well as the above-mentioned study, are part of a research project funded by the German Foreign Office.Further reading mentioned in the episode: Foreign Electoral Interference Affecting EU Democratic Processes by Ivana Karásková, Una Aleksandra Bērziņa-Čerenkova, and Kara Němečková of the Association for International Affairs (AMO)

In this episode of the MERICS China Podcast, Jörg Wuttke talks about negotiations in China. Wuttke has more than 25 years of experience as Chief Representative of the German chemicals company BASF in Beijing. In conversation with MERICS Director Communications and Publications Claudia Wessling, the former President of the European Chamber of Commerce in China shares intriguing stories about learning Sun Tzu’s “The Art of War” in negotiations stretching over nearly 200 rounds. He also explains why sometimes enduring silence might be the best approach. And he reveals who he thinks was the most authentic politician to negotiate with Beijing.If this whets your appetite, make sure to read the comment pieces on the topic of negotiations by our former Senior Fellow and former Indian top diplomat Vijay Ghokale and by our Senior Associate Fellow Charles Parton:Why negotiating with China feels different, by Vijay GohkaleNegotiating with China – some practical considerations, by Charles Parton

Vor einem Jahr wurde Staats- und Parteichef Xi Jinping kurz nach dem 20. Parteitag der KPC im ersten Plenum des Zentralkomitees für eine dritte Amtszeit bestätigt. In diesem Jahr steht das alle fünf Jahre stattfindende dritte Plenum an, auf dem in der Vergangenheit oft richtungsweisende Reformentscheidungen beschlossen wurden.Das Treffen wurde für Oktober oder November erwartet, doch bisher ist nichts darüber bekannt. In Online-Debatten diskutieren die Menschen in China über mögliche Gründe und fordern Reformen. Über die Lage der Kommunistische Partei und vor allem Xi Jinpings vor dem dritten Plenum sowie über Herausforderungen und mögliche Reformen spricht Johannes Heller-John mit MERICS Senior Associate Fellow Johnny Erling. Erling lebte mehrere Jahrzehnte in China und war von 1997 bis 2019 Korrespondent in Beijing für die deutsche Zeitung "Die Welt" und den österreichischen "Der Standard".

The year 2023 marks the 10th anniversary of the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI), a global infrastructure development strategy adopted by the Chinese government in 2013. By now, the BRI is more than just ports and rail lines and its projects covers a variety of sectors like energy, telecommunications, digital, health, education, and culture. How has the BRI changed in the last decade? What mark has it left abroad and at home? And how do initiatives from the EU and the US fare in comparison? Clark Banach, Futures Fellow at MERICS and Program Director at the Alethia Research Institution, and Jacob Gunter, Lead Analyst at MERICS, join Johannes Heller-John to answer these questions.

After a decade in power, party and state leader Xi Jinping has fundamentally reshaped China’s political economy in pursuit of the Chinese Communist Party’s long-term goal: to return to a strong and prosperous China at the heart of the global economy. As the CCP approaches the 2023 Third Plenum, an event which will give important indications on the future of China’s economy, Christine Krüger is talking to Bert Hofman, Director of the East Asian Institute at the National University of Singapore, and Senior Associate Fellow at MERICS, and Jacob Gunter, Lead Analyst in the Economy program at MERICS.Jacob is also the co-author with MERICS Chief Economist Max J. Zenglein of a new MERICS Report titled “The party knows best: aligning economic actors with China’s strategic goals” that analyzes the meaning of the fundamental shifts in China’s economic governance that are currently unfolding.

Wie versucht Beijing das Chinabild in Deutschland und Europa zu prägen? Was unternimmt die chinesische Regierung, um Kritik zu unterbinden? Und wo hört legitime Eigenwerbung auf und fängt Propaganda an? Zu diesen und anderen Fragen spricht Johannes Heller-John mit Katja Drinhausen, Leiterin des Programms Politik und Gesellschaft am MERICS, und Mareike Ohlberg, Senior Fellow im Indopazifik Programm des German Marshall Funds. Sie geben Einblicke in die Formen chinesischer Einflussnahme in Deutschland und einen möglichen Umgang damit.Zusammen mit MERICS Analyst Grzegorz Stec und European China Policy Fellow Ivana Karásková sind sie Mitautorinnen einer neuen Studie zu chinesischer Einflussnahme mit dem Titel Studie „Image control: How China struggles for discourse power“. Diese Podcastfolge wie auch die MERICS-Studie sind Teil eines vom Auswärtigen Amt geförderten Forschungsprojekts.

China’s efforts to advance national innovation face difficulties in times of decoupling and de-risking. Together with Tai Ming Cheung, Director of the University of California Institute on Global Conflict and Cooperation and Professor at the School of Global Policy and Strategy at University of California, San Diego, and Jeroen Groenewegen-Lau, Head of the Science, Technology and Innovation Program at MERICS, Johannes Heller-John discusses China’s national innovation system, the threat of the militarization of science and technology, the role of science diplomacy and the importance of more clarity with regards to what does and what does not fall under national security.The conversation was recorded during the conference on Chinese National Innovation and Techno-Industrial Eco-Systems, which was held on September 5 and 6, 2023 at MERICS in Berlin. 

The share of electric vehicles (EVs) in Europe that are imported from China could reach 15 percent in 2025, up from six percent in 2022, projected the European Commission in an announcement on September 13, where it also launched an investigation into whether Chinese EV-imports are benefiting from unfair state subsidies and should be imposed with tariffs. Ilaria Mazzocco, Senior Fellow with the Trustee Chair in Chinese Business and Economics at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), and Gregor Sebastian, Analyst at MERICS, talk to Johannes Heller-John about how Chinese EV-manufacturers have become so important, current trends in the country’s EV industry, and implications for European governments and manufacturers. They are the co-authors of a new CSIS report called “Electric shock: Interpreting China’s electric vehicle export boom”.

The different interpretations of de-risking, the need for cooperation and the next steps on the EU agenda on economic security are the topics of the final part of our series on de-risking. Johannes Heller-John is joined by Francesca Ghiretti, an Analyst at MERICS focusing on EU-China relations and economic security. Francesca hosted the previous episodes with Emily Benson, Director at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, on the US and de-risking, and with Kazuto Suzuki, Director of the Institute of Geo-economics in Tokyo, on Japan and de-risking. This podcast series was recorded at the sidelines of the Advancing Economic Security Forum in Berlin in July 2023.