The Wednesday Conversation

Do evangelicals really lack cultural elites — and if so, does it matter?An essay in First Things argues that evangelicals have failed to cultivate elites in America’s most influential institutions, leaving them underrepresented in culture-shaping domains like media, academia, and politics. In this episode, we examine author Aaron Renn’s claims, question his definition of “elite,” and explore where the argument resonates — and where it falls apart. We discuss populism within evangelicalism, the absence of a robust theology of vocation, the tension evangelicals feel toward ambition and power, and reflect on how the gospel reframes ambition, faithfulness, and cultural impact.Chapters: (0:00) Introductions: Evangelical Elites? (8:07) Why Evangelicals Struggle with Power (19:08) Ambition, Leadership, and Discernment (26:26) The Need for Flagship Churches (32:29) The Gospel’s Reframing of Success

Are white millennial men becoming a “lost generation”?A widely shared essay in Compact magazine contends that white millennial men have borne an overlooked cost of the DEI era — facing stalled careers, closed doors, and deep vocational disillusionment. In this episode, we examine the article’s claims and reflect on why this story has resonated so strongly. We discuss meritocracy, generational resentment, the spiritual danger of letting vocational injustice define our identity, and how the gospel speaks to disappointment and unfair systems.Chapters:(0:00) Introductions: The Lost Generation(4:40) A Listener’s Story(12:05) Journalism, Academia, and Hollywood: The Evidence(20:00) Meritocracy, Resentment, and Generational Fallout(22:45) What the Gospel Offers in an Unfair World

Why is question-asking vital to spiritual growth and formation?Asking questions is an important part of forming good relationships. Yet sometimes we fail to ask questions or ask the wrong kind of questions in an effort to avoid conflict or out of fear. In this episode from 2016, we discuss the art of asking good questions — how it shows love and curiosity, why it’s essential to our spiritual formation, and how we can be attuned to the Holy Spirit as we do it.

What were some of the highlights of 2025?On the last day of 2025, we spend some time reflecting on the past year. In this episode, we talk about impactful books we read, memorable moments in ministry, insights from Scripture, and longings we have for ourselves and our churches.Chapters:(0:00) Introductions: Chippers?(4:58) Books We Read in 2025(10:57) Key Ministry Moments(17:03) Engaging with Scripture(20:42) People & Places(25:05) Longings

How should a pastor process a calling to leave a church and transition to a new ministry setting? Pastoral transitions can be difficult for churches and leaders to navigate. Sometimes pastors move on for the wrong reasons. But sometimes, the Spirit of God is on the move. How can we discern the difference? In this episode, Chris opens up about a forthcoming transition in his own ministry. We discuss the importance of relational trust, self-awareness and discernment, inviting community into the process, and the practical realities of leading through change.Chapters:(0:00) Introductions: Christmastime = Snack Time(1:02) Chris is Departing Omaha(4:49) Moving from Good to Good(14:54) The Stages of Reckoning with a Pastoral Shift(19:33) Questions Pastors Should Be Asking(29:31) Questions Churches Should Be Asking

 How should Christians approach contraception and family planning?Unless a Christian couple has taken the time to investigate contraceptive and family planning options, it can be hard to know what exists, what is safe, and what is ethical. In part two of this two-part episode, we continue our conversation about how to honor God in our approach to family planning. We discuss the risks of hormonal birth control and respond to some additional listener questions about when to start having kids — and also whether it's OK to be done.Chapters:(0:00) Introductions: Resetting the Discussion(1:45) Fertility Awareness vs. Hormonal Birth Control(8:13) When Are You Ready to Have Kids?(17:30) Is It OK to Be Done Having Kids?(22:38) Christian Freedom in Family Planning

How should Christians approach contraception and family planning?Unless a Christian couple has taken the time to investigate contraceptive and family planning options, it can be hard to know what exists, what is safe, and what is ethical. In part one of this two-part episode, we address a listener's question about how to honor God in our approach to family planning. We discuss the predominant cultural narratives about contraception, how a Christian view is different, and why the fertility awareness method offers a unique wisdom in this area.Chapters:(0:00) Introductions: Listener Justin Has a Question(3:16) The Cultural Starting Point for Contraception(9:03) Strengths & Weaknesses of Protestant Thought(13:33) Reflecting on Our Assumptions about Birth Control(21:44) Jenn Newman Joins Us to Talk About Fertility Awareness

How can we resist the gamification of our economy — and help others do the same?The advent of digital technology has incentivized ease and encouraged isolation. Young people, especially young men, have become socially risk-averse — spending more time alone and cultivating negative habits on their devices. In this episode, we engage a Derek Thompson Substack article that explores the connection between online betting and social isolation. We discuss the fight for young men's souls, the need for embodied discipleship, and how the church can be a counter-cultural champion of relationships and community.Chapters:(0:00) Introductions: Keep it Up, Young Christian Men(3:07) We’ve Forgotten How to Feel Lonely(7:05) The Loss of the Pro-Social Script(16:19) Why Embodied Discipleship Matters(21:13) Disempowering the Digitization of Our Lives(27:33) Concluding Reflections

How can we submit to and enjoy the slow process of sanctification?It’s not uncommon for Christians to feel discouraged by their progress (or lack thereof) in sanctification. But what if our vision of maturity focused less on the destination and more on slow growth over time? In this episode, we use the Sermon on the Mount to consider Christian discipleship and maturity. We discuss Jesus's image of discipleship as a path or road, how to handle discouragement along the way, and the joy of not taking ourselves too seriously.Chapters:(0:00) Introductions: Follow-Up on AR-15's(5:49) Reframing Sanctification as a Journey(15:25) The Journey is Slow(20:57) We Will Reach the Destination(27:33) How to Enjoy the Process

How can we advocate for a people-first economy?Artificial intelligence is disrupting our vocational and social worlds — and as it starts to dominate industries, more people are trying to discern its proper limits and boundaries. Intuitively, we are hesitant about the increasing growth of AI. But why? Is it because we sense that people should do our work? In this episode, Bob weaves together two articles to discuss the contrast between building an AI-first culture and a people-first culture. Along the way, we consider the importance of a Christian anthropology, the growing questions about AI's economic impact, and how Christians can be champions of others in their lives and workspaces.Chapters:(0:00) Introductions: What Do We Do about AI?(5:39) We’re Heading Toward an AI-First World(11:04) Choose the Person over the Non-Person(15:46) A Principle for Engaging AI(21:57) The ROI on AI(27:49) A People-First ApproachArticles & Resources:https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-financial-page/the-ai-profits-drought-and-the-lessons-of-historyhttps://mereorthodoxy.com/wendell-berrys-unanswered-question

The Vatican clarified its stance on the virgin Mary—where do Protestants agree & disagree?Last week, the Vatican's Dicastery for the Doctrine of Faith released a document clarifying Roman Catholic teaching about Mary the mother of Jesus. Mariology has been a point of contention in Protestant/Catholic relations, but the Mater Populi Fidelis document reveals some promising reforms. It also fails to go far enough. In this episode, Bob commends three specific areas of reform, points out three areas of ongoing disagreement, and encourages Protestant/Catholic debate and conversation.Chapters:(0:00) Introductions: The Release of Mater Populi Fidelis(4:34) Three Encouraging Reforms to Marian Devotion(13:04) Where We Think the Vatican Still Missed(24:23) What Protestants Can GleanArticles & Resources:https://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/en/bollettino/pubblico/2025/11/04/251104a.html

Why are so many Christians unwilling to bend on the issue of guns?In the wake of Charlie Kirk’s murder and other recent instances of gun violence, the debate over gun regulation is raging once again. The right to bear arms is constitutionally protected and deeply ingrained in American culture — but does that mean all guns should be permitted? In this episode, we respond to a listener question about where Christians should stand on gun control. We discuss biblical wisdom and gun regulation, the interplay of the gun debate with societal virtue, and why “rights” don’t always align with human flourishing.Chapters:(0:00) Listener Sophia Has a Question(3:20) Teeing Up the Gun Control Debate(7:40) Why Christians Should Support Reasonable Gun Regulations(12:17) The Case Against Assault Weapons(16:10) Why We Are Still Pro-Gun(20:00) Guns and VirtueResources:Gun Control and the Right to Bear Arms — Good Faith Debates https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOMePdBBLnI

How should the Reformation shape how we worship today?It’s always good to know and understand our heritage when it comes to worship. Why do we structure our worship gatherings the way we do? Why do we sing together as a congregation? Should we take communion every week? In this episode from 2020, we talk about the book ‘Reformation Worship’ and look at what principles and ideas we can take from the Reformation and put into practice in modern day worship.

Technology is threatening our humanity — how do we push back? The digital revolution is forcing the human race toward a civilizational bottleneck, Ross Douthat contends in a recent New York Times article. What survives depends on our deliberate choices. Unless we "fight for a future where human things and human beings survive and flourish," much of what we love will be lost. In this episode, we discuss Douthat's insights about how the virtual replaces the real, why we put up with this digital substitution, and how AI accelerates the process. We close by considering how Christians can help preserve the practices and pursuits that make us truly human.Chapters:(0:00) Introductions: Bob's Recent Cycling Accident(4:47) The Digital Age as a Civilizational Bottleneck(16:38) How The Virtual Replaces the Real(21:30) Intentional & Purposeful Stewardship(31:37) Preserving the Really Human Things

Bob interviews Trevin Wax about his new book, The Gospel Way Catechism.Trevin Wax is Vice President of Resources and Marketing at the North American Mission Board and a well-known author, speaker, and cultural commentator. He also serves (along with Bob) as a fellow at The Keller Center for Cultural Apologetics. In this episode, Bob and Trevin talk apologetics. They discuss Trevin’s newest project "The Gospel Way Catechism" and its unique approach to counter-formation. They also explain the role of cultural apologetics in explaining and defending the Christian faith.Chapters:(0:00) Introductions: What is Counter-Catechesis?(7:26) How to Decide What to Put In a Catechism(14:56) Who Should Be Using Catechisms?(21:40) Trevin’s Contribution to “The Gospel After Christendom”(25:00) Explaining Cultural Apologetics(30:45) Lesslie Newbigin's Missiology

Bob interviews Trevin Wax about his life, leadership, writing, and formative influences.Trevin Wax is Vice President of Resources and Marketing at the North American Mission Board and a well-known author, speaker, and cultural commentator. He also serves (along with Bob) as a fellow at The Keller Center for Cultural Apologetics. During Trevin's recent visit to Nebraska for a TGC pastor's quarterly, we invited him to join the podcast to discuss his life and work. In this episode, we hear about Trevin’s upbringing, his writing, his experiences in ministry, and his vision for the next few decades.Chapters:(0:00) Introductions: Kelsey’s Cookies (Again)(1:28) Trevin’s Family and Church Background(10:18) Developing the Discipline of Writing(21:46) Experiences with and Work with the Keller Center(37:59) What’s Next?

What are catechisms and why do we use them?To those unfamiliar with the term, “catechism” can seem like a strange word. Simply put, catechisms are question-and-answer tools that communicate Christian theology in simple ways. In this episode, we respond to a listener question about the origins of catechisms and creeds. We discuss why the Reformation led to a golden age of catechisms, what makes catechisms important, and how they connect us to historic Christianity and spur us to deeper worship.Chapters:(0:00) Introductions: Kelsey's Cookies(1:55) Catechizing Catechumens with Catechisms(12:50) Some Important Creeds & Catechisms(18:56) Laying a Foundation for Theology & Discipleship(29:29) Catechisms Tether Us to the Historic Church

In the wake of Charlie Kirk's assassination, how do we process our emotions, responses, and reactions?On September 10, 2025, conservative political activist and outspoken Christian Charlie Kirk was murdered during a campus event at Utah Valley University. Some people are feeling shock, anger, fear, grief, and lament; others are celebrating or mocking. How do we make sense of what we’re feeling? How do we respond to what others are saying? And what does this moment portend for American politics and the future of civic debate? In this episode, Bob engages these questions and offers some commentary and perspective.Chapters:(0:00) Introductions: First Things First(5:44) Who Was Charlie Kirk ?(12:36) What Does His Assassination Reveal?(27:06) Temptations We Should Resist(39:22) Parting ThoughtsArticles & Resources: https://www.digitalliturgies.net/p/accelerants-and-tethershttps://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/16/opinion/charlie-kirk-assassination-left-violence.htmlhttps://brianmattson.substack.com/p/theythem

If you’ve listened to the radio lately, perhaps you’ve noticed that pop music is sounding a lot like worship music. Some of the year's most popular songs use biblical imagery, emotive builds, and vocal choirs—not unlike what you might hear in church. On this week’s episode, we discuss a recent article that traces this trend. We explore why music producers are mimicking worship music and what it suggests about our cultural moment.Chapters:(0:00) Introductions: Myrtle & Cypress(3:21) Is "Secular Praise Music" Even a Thing?(13:24) What’s Driving the Change in Pop Music(19:03) What Music Says About Our Collective Longings(30:05) We Can Worship Even When Songs Are Hard to SingArticle:https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/music/article/everyone-is-listening-to-secular-praise-music-yes-even-you-110058855.html

Over the past half-century, evangelical Christians have rediscovered spiritual formation. Richard Foster, Dallas Willard, John Ortberg, and more recently John Mark Comer have helped re-emphasize spiritual practices and the interior life. But why does so much popular writing and teaching on spiritual formation lean on Catholic sources – mystics and monks and Merton? Is there a distinctly Protestant stream of spiritual formation that we can rediscover? If so, what might it teach us? In this episode, we interact with a new book from Matthew Bingham, A Heart Aflame for God. Bingham asserts that there IS a deep Protestant tradition of spiritual formation, and one of its distinctives is the centrality of Scripture. In this episode, we discuss why we tend to minimize Scripture in spiritual formation, why the Puritans saw Scripture as central to spiritual formation, and how we can practically foreground the Scriptures in our spiritual practices.Chapters:(0:00) Introductions: Have We Lost the Thread on Spiritual Formation?(4:26) The Primacy of the Word of God(13:23) Some Critiques of a Word-Centric Spiritual Formation(20:43) What the Puritans Have to Say(26:22) Let the Word of Christ Dwell in You Richly