Doomer Optimism

Building an Edible Perennial Nursery with Nick Wren Nick Wren of Living Soil Tree Farms joins Jason to talk about the practical realities of starting and running an edible perennial nursery. Nick shares his journey from civil engineering to tree farming, explaining why he became passionate about native nut trees, fruit trees, and woody perennials.They cover the nuts and bolts of nursery operations, including seasonal rhythms throughout the year, the use of air-pruning beds for propagating seedlings, and the advantages of growing trees from seed versus grafted cultivars. Nick discusses the challenges of meeting market demand, balancing online shipping with local sales, and the economics of different scale operations.Key topics include strategies for protecting seeds from rodents, managing deer pressure, the role of composting and soil biology in tree health, and why greenhouse infrastructure is less critical for native tree production than many people assume. Nick makes a strong case for black walnuts, hazelnuts, and other underutilized native trees that could play a larger role in regional food systems.The episode also explores the broader philosophy behind small-scale tree nurseries, including the importance of preserving genetic diversity through seed saving, the potential for silvopasture systems, and how this work connects to building more resilient local food economies. Nick shares practical advice for anyone interested in starting their own nursery operation, from building air pruning boxes to grading and pricing trees. For those interested in edible landscaping, permaculture, or small-scale agriculture, this conversation offers both inspiration and actionable knowledge about working with native and edible perennial plants.Connect with Nick:Website: livingsoiltreefarm.comYouTube: Living Soil Tree Farm

Jason and Ashley welcome back Chris Smaje to discuss his new book, “Finding Lights in a Dark Age,” now available for purchase. Chris is a returning guest who first appeared on the podcast to discuss his influential book “Small Farm Future,” which helped shape many of the show’s conversations about agricultural futures and sustainability. He returned previously to discuss “Say No to a Farm-Free Future,” his critique of George Monbiot and proponents of lab-grown food alternatives. In this episode, Chris discusses his third book, which assumes a transition to a lower energy future and explores practical approaches to living well despite new challenges.The conversation covers his solar system model of political organization, distributism and Catholic social teaching, the complexities of managing commons and collective resources, lessons learned from running his own farm, and the potential for relocalization of food systems and community structures.Chris draws on his experiences managing a small farm with a community of people, including challenges with woodland commons, cooperative work arrangements, and the practical realities of collective decision-making. The discussion explores demographic challenges, migration patterns, the role of family and household economies, and the distinction between romanticized visions of agrarian life and the nuanced, practical arrangements required to make local systems function effectively.The book argues for a more distributed, locally-oriented approach to politics and economics, moving away from centralized state power toward bottom-up community organization. Chris explores how people might navigate the breakdown of high-energy modernity by developing local autonomy, access to land, and new forms of community organization that balance individual agency with collective needs. The conversation ends with reflections on what flourishing might look like in a post-abundance future and why the so-called Dark Ages may not have been dark for everyone.

Nigel Best doesn’t have time for your bullshit. He’s too busy welding gates, rotating cattle, building spiral staircases, and conducting “illicit beef transactions” in Craigslist parking lots.Missouri woodworker and regenerative rancher Nigel Best joins Jason and Nate to talk about what it actually takes to make a living on the land—without going broke, without selling your soul, and without waiting for Washington to save you.In this episode:Why coming up hard isn’t a strategy (but flat tires and crooked fingers are part of the deal)The truth about rotational grazing: genius in wet years, dumbass in droughtsHow to raise beef when customers complain about prices and the president says you’re greedyThe case for land value tax as the only moral tax (and why nobody’s entitled to your heartbeats)Why the informal economy beats W-2 farms and digital surveillance every timeMeat packer monopolies vs. the last stand of independent ranchersTwo competing theories of change: political antitrust warfare or agorist opt-outWhy every kid should work construction with crotchety old men before graduating high schoolFair warning: Nigel solves exactly zero problems in this episode. What he does offer is three decades of hard-won wisdom from someone who’s actually been “out there in the rain at midnight with their hand up a cow.” No Instagram-perfect farm content. No verbatim regurgitation of regenerative ag books. Just the unvarnished reality of feeding yourself, your family, and your neighbors in a system designed to extract value from everyone who touches it.If you’re tired of influencers peddling theories and want to hear from someone who’s actually dragging their knuckles through it, this one’s for you.Guest: Nigel Best (@NigelBest5)Hosts: Jason & NateTopics: Regenerative Agriculture, Land Tax, Agorism, Beef Industry, Rural Economics, Informal Markets

Why We Need Each Other More Than Everhttps://undpress.nd.edu/9780268210335/the-dignity-of-dependence/https://www.compactmag.com/article/the-great-feminization/Ashley welcomes back Leah Sargeant to discuss her new book, The Dignity of Dependence: A Feminist Manifesto. They explore two core arguments: that women's equality with men doesn't depend on being interchangeable with them, and that no humans are truly autonomous; we're all dependent on one another throughout our lives.The conversation moves from "doom" to optimism, examining how modern society tries to flatten sex differences and promote an illusion of self-reliance, particularly around pregnancy, motherhood, and the workplace. Leah critiques the approach of treating women as "defective men" who need to suppress their biology and feminine qualities to succeed in male-normed environments.Ashley and Leah discuss Helen Andrews' controversial essay on workplace feminization, the false ideal of the independent individual, and how this myth fails everyone—from infants to aging populations. They explore practical solutions, including community building, workplace flexibility, policy changes like baby bonuses and caregiver Social Security credits, and the importance of creating space for interdependence at every scale.The episode celebrates the seasons of life, the necessity of mutual dependence, and finding dignity in our need for one another, from the everyday juggling of school pickups and neighborhood networks to the profound vulnerabilities of pregnancy, illness, and aging.

Fresh from dinner with Wendell Berry in Kentucky, the crew discusses Paul Kingsnorth’s new book and the deep tensions in American agriculture. From Trump’s controversial beef deal with Argentina to the packing monopolies squeezing ranchers, we explore why our food system prioritizes industrial products over actually feeding people.Topics include: the soybean-ethanol scam, why 80% of corn never becomes human food, land prices and the return-to-the-land movement, the death of email jobs and rise of excess labor, and why California could have fed tens of millions on acorns and salmon alone. Plus: the case for a new agrarian think tank, the difference between living as creatures versus machines, and why we need a million cowboys to restore America’s ecosystems.Featuring reflections on nationalism vs. patriotism, the regulatory capture of agriculture, fiat currency, and farmland prices, and why the real abundance agenda has nothing to do with cheap beef from Argentina.

Creating member networks, local food systems, and recession-proof community infrastructureJason talks with Tres, co-founder of GreenBox Homes, about creating a regenerative landscaping company that competes with traditional lawn care services. They discuss the business model of providing weekly yard care focused on building soil and ecosystems rather than just aesthetic maintenance, creating member networks for sharing plants and resources, and the massive supply-demand gap in the native plant industry.Tres shares how his Catholic faith informs his environmental mission, the potential for vertical integration through nurseries and material recovery, and his vision for a replicable, distributist model that could transform millions of acres. The conversation covers practical business strategy, the spiritual dimensions of working with land, and opportunities for others to enter the growing regenerative landscaping market.

AI safety researcher Nate Soares explains why he believes there's at least a 95% chance that current AI development will lead to human extinction, and why we're accelerating toward that outcome. Soares, who has been working on AI alignment since 2012, breaks down the fundamental problem: we're building increasingly intelligent systems without any ability to control what they actually want or pursue.The conversation covers current AI behavior that wasn't programmed: threatening users, keeping psychotic people in delusional states, and repeatedly lying when caught. Soares explains why these aren't bugs to be fixed but symptoms of a deeper problem. We can't point AI systems at any specific goal, not even something simple like "make a diamond." Instead, we get systems with bizarre drives that are only distantly related to their training.Soares addresses the "racing China" argument and why it misunderstands the threat. He explains why AI engineers can build powerful systems without understanding what's actually happening inside them, and why this matters. Using examples from evolutionary biology, he shows why there's no reason to expect AI systems to develop human-like morality or values.The discussion covers why a catastrophic warning event probably won't help, what international coordination could look like, and why current safety efforts fall short of what's needed. Soares is direct about industry motivations, technical limitations, and the timeline we're facing.Nate Soares has been researching AI alignment and safety since 2012. He works at the Machine Intelligence Research Institute (MIRI), one of the pioneering organizations focused on ensuring advanced AI systems are aligned with human values.

Join the Doomer Optimism crew for their first-ever live group chat as they tackle the big questions facing our technologically saturated world. Ashley, Nate, Jason, Peter, and Patrick gather to discuss Paul Kingsnorth’s new book Against the Machine, the creeping influence of AI in our daily lives, and whether we’re heading toward accelerated collapse or just another step down.The conversation meanders from the ethics of AI chatbots (including Amish farmers launching their own) to the practical realities of keeping phones away from kids in an increasingly digital world. Nate shares hard-won wisdom from rebuilding after his house fire, while Peter warns about the looming cattle market collapse that could reshape American agriculture. Jason makes the case for sheep, Ashley name-drops her upcoming dinner with Wendell Berry (yes, really), and everyone debates whether we should accelerate into the chaos or dig in our heels and resist.Topics covered: screen-free parenting strategies, the difference between tools and crutches, why COVID lockdowns weren’t all bad, the impossible economics of small-scale beef production, John Michael Greer’s stair-step collapse theory, and what it really takes to build resilience in an age of affluence and anxiety.Plus: Patrick performs a house tour nobody asked for, Nate explains why relationships matter more than bunkers, and the group grapples with whether the machine can ever truly be stopped—or if the best we can do is stay human despite it all.

Ashley talks with Kevin Ryan, a Marine Corps veteran and public school teacher running for U.S. Senate in Illinois without corporate donors, consultants, or ad buys. Kevin describes his campaign from a converted school bus as he travels to all 102 counties, gathering signatures by hand and talking directly with voters about what they want from their government. The two discuss money in politics, disillusionment with both parties, and how cynicism erodes civic life. It’s a grounded look at whether a government of the people, by the people, for the people can still function and what it takes to test that idea in real time.

Against efficiency and isolation: learning humility from forgotten communities and the ancient art of the Georgian feastJohn Heers, founder of First Things Foundation, joins Ashley to discuss his unconventional approach to international development—sending people to live humbly in forgotten communities from Mozambique to Guatemala, learning local languages, and facilitating indigenous entrepreneurship rather than imposing Western solutions.The conversation weaves through the tyranny of "spreadsheet brain," the spiritual necessity of smallness over ego, and why efficiency isn't a virtue in itself. John introduces the Georgian supra—a traditional dinner built around ritualized toasting that creates communion without demanding psychological intimacy—and explains how this ancient social technology is resonating with Americans hungry for something beyond transactional relationships.John and Ashley explore how face-to-face gathering, shared meals, and acknowledging life's difficult realities (including death and sin) are essential acts of resistance against a machine culture that wants us isolated, autonomous, and always online.John and Ashley will be hosting a Georgian supra together at the next Doomer Optimism gathering in Red Boiling Springs, Tennessee, February 13-14, 2025. We hope that you're able to join us!

Dr. Chris Ellis interviews Tucker Max, who shares his transformative journey from bestselling author to homesteader, focusing on resiliency and self-sufficiency. Tucker discusses the impact of COVID-19 on his beliefs and actions, emphasizing the importance of family involvement in homesteading and the skills developed through this lifestyle. He emphasizes the importance of community and legacy, advocating for a nurturing relationship with the land and a focus on personal development. Tucker offers insights on the challenges and rewards of homesteading, encouraging others to embrace this path for a fulfilling life.

Generational Perspectives on Preparedness with Dr. Chris Ellis and Jonathan RawlesDr. Chris Ellis sits down with Jonathan Rawles, mechanical engineer, author, and co-founder of Survival Realty, to explore how different generations approach preparedness and community resilience in an era of cultural collapse. Unlike his father, James Wesley Rawles, known for his expertise on nuclear war bunkers and self-sufficiency, Jonathan focuses on what he calls the "slow collapse" already underway in American society.Growing up witnessing the erosion of social trust—where unsupervised children playing outside now prompt police calls despite lower crime rates—Jonathan sees preparedness as fundamentally about rebuilding community connections. Through his work in real estate, he observes how rising property costs challenge traditional preparedness, while older homesteaders struggle to pass on decades of work to appreciative buyers.Yet Jonathan remains optimistic, describing communities where young people eagerly embrace early marriage and family life, and multigenerational families return to their roots. He emphasizes that while full self-sufficiency has become economically daunting, basic resilience remains accessible on any budget through food storage, backup heating, and cooking skills.The conversation reveals how true resilience requires a "mindset of vitality and optimism," coupled with taking responsibility for fixing what we can in our own communities. Jonathan's insights show how preparedness-minded individuals are creating resilient futures through churches, homeschool co-ops, and intentional networks rather than waiting for collapse.

What does it mean to be truly prepared in an uncertain world? Dr. Chris Ellis is joined by Bradley Garrett to explore the evolving landscape of resilient citizens and prepping communities, from the "Noah archetype" of community-focused preparedness to bunker communities like Vivos xPoint.The discussion unpacks the psychology, demographics, and practicalities of modern preparedness culture. Younger generations are reshaping the prepping movement, while bunker building represents both rational strategy and potential obsession. International models of community resilience offer insights for American preparedness efforts, and current threats like AI and misinformation demand new approaches to national resiliency.Topics range from underground living and community resilience models to demographic shifts changing preparedness culture. The conversation also examines how gaming platforms serve as testing grounds for real-world preparedness strategies and explores the intersection of wealth, responsibility, and survival planning.

Dr. Chris Ellis, author of "Resilient Citizens," sits down with homesteader and author Roxanne Ahern to explore how sustainable living practices build both personal and community resilience. Ahern, who wrote "Holistic Homesteading" after her own transformation from health struggles to self-sufficiency, breaks down the practical and philosophical aspects of growing your own food, preserving traditional skills, and creating meaningful connections with neighbors.The conversation moves beyond typical homesteading advice to examine deeper questions: How does working with soil and seasons teach us about life's cycles? What role do farmers' markets play in rebuilding local food systems? And why might parenting and gardening share surprising parallels in developing patience and grace?Ahern addresses real concerns about modern agriculture—from chemical dependencies to disconnected food chains—while offering concrete steps listeners can take regardless of their living situation. Whether you're curious about starting a backyard garden or questioning how to prepare for an uncertain future, this episode provides both inspiration and actionable wisdom rooted in years of hands-on experience.

Joe Allen leads us on a journey through the Axial Age's profound wisdom traditions to uncover how ancient civilizations grappled with the same transhumanist dreams that captivate us today. From the bronze automaton Talos guarding Crete to the terrifying Brahmastra weapons of the Mahabharata, we trace humanity's eternal fascination with creating artificial life and wielding god-like power.This episode weaves through the Hindu concept of yugas—those vast cosmic cycles that see humanity descend from golden ages into our current Kali Yuga, the age of iron and spiritual darkness. We examine how the Golem tradition reflects both our creative aspirations and the dangers of "golemizing" sacred wisdom, turning living tradition into a lifeless mechanism.

What if everything we think we know about "natural" ecosystems is wrong?Peter Allen is a restoration ecologist and regenerative farmer, and learn how North America's pre-European landscapes weren't wild at all—they were sophisticated agricultural systems managed by Indigenous peoples for thousands of years.Speaking from his 220-acre farm in Wisconsin's unique Driftless region, Peter shares his journey from academic ecology to hands-on farming, revealing how the oak savannas that once stretched coast-to-coast were the most productive ecosystems on the continent. He explains why megafauna like mastodons and giant ground sloths were the original landscape architects, and how their extinction 12,000 years ago began the sixth mass extinction we're still experiencing today.Peter offers a practical roadmap for restoration, from understanding why our food has lost its ability to nourish us (spoiler: it's all about minerals) to how properly managed livestock can rebuild topsoil faster than nature ever could. He tackles controversial topics head-on, challenging the narrative that cows cause climate change and explaining why the war on beef might be about more than just the environment.

Ashley is joined by Grayson Quay, author of 'The Transhumanist Temptation' to explore the philosophical and ethical implications of transhumanism, its historical roots, and its intersection with modern ideologies. They cover the concept of natural law, the role of technology in shaping human identity, and the challenges parents face in a tech-driven world. They also discuss the future of humanity in relation to AI and consciousness, concluding with a call to embrace our humanity in an increasingly transhuman era.

The Shire We Call HomeJason sits down with Tom Ruby and Alan Cornett to explore the profound influence of Wendell Berry on modern agrarianism, the surprising revival of Catholicism in America, and why the future might belong to those willing to get their hands dirty.From the rolling hills of Kentucky, which echo Tolkien's Shire, to the intellectual journey from secular academia to Catholic agrarianism, Tom and Alan share their personal stories of finding meaning through land stewardship and community building. The conversation weaves together themes of localism, the "cultural debris" of forgotten traditions, and the practical wisdom needed to counter our age of disconnection.Whether you're drawn to Berry's vision of place-based living, curious about the Catholic Land Movement, or simply wondering how to build authentic community in fractured times, this conversation offers both philosophical depth and practical hope. As our guests remind us: good people are out there, working the land and building the kind of life that lasts.

In this episode, Ashley asks her two closest collaborators on Doomer Optimism – Jason on the podcast, and James on events – to think through what drew them to the project, lessons from what we’ve done so far, and where we could go from here.

Monopoly Power, New Deal Legacies, and the Fight for Real Economic DemocracyJames and Basel unpack the legacy of the New Deal, the tangled history of regulation, and the roots of today’s anti-monopoly movement. From egg prices and avian flu to Big Tech and corporate control of agriculture, they explore how concentrated power distorts markets, erodes democracy, and shapes both domestic and foreign policy. Grounded in history but focused on the future, the episode explores what real economic democracy might look like—and the role everyday people can play in achieving it.