Freakonomics Radio

Nearly everything that politicians say about taxes is at least half a lie. They are also dishonest when it comes to the national debt. In this update of an episode from 2025, Stephen Dubner finds one of the few people in Washington who is willing to tell the truth — and it’s even worse than you think.   SOURCES: Jessica Riedl, budget and tax fellow at the Brookings Institution.   RESOURCES: "How Did DOGE Disrupt So Much While Saving So Little?" by Emily Badger, David Fahrenthold, Alicia Parlapiano, and Margot Sanger-Katz (New York Times, 2025). "Correcting the Top 10 Tax Myths," by Jessica Riedl (Manhattan Institute, 2024). "Spending, Taxes, and Deficits: A Book of Charts," by Jessica Riedl (Manhattan Institute, 2024). "Why Did Americans Stop Caring About the National Debt?" by Jessica Riedl (Reason, 2024). "A Comprehensive Federal Budget Plan to Avert a Debt Crisis," by Jessica Riedl (Manhattan Institute, 2024). "When Does Federal Debt Reach Unsustainable Levels?" by Jagadeesh Gokhale, Kent Smetters, and Mariko Paulson (The Wharton School of Business, 2023). "The Limits of Taxing the Rich," by Jessica Riedl (Manhattan Institute, 2023).   EXTRAS: "Farewell to a Generational Talent," by Freakonomics Radio (2024).   Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Is it tradition … or protectionism? And what happens when the bourbon boom turns into a glut?   SOURCES: Andrew Muhammad, agricultural economist at the University of Tennessee. Brad Patrick, executive in residence and lecturer at the University of Kentucky Gatton College of Business and Economics, bourbon fellow at the James B. Beam Institute for Kentucky Spirits. Danny Kahn, master distiller and distillation and aging operations director at Sazerac. Ken Troske, labor economist and chair of the economics department at the University of Kentucky.   RESOURCES: "America's Bourbon Boom Is Over. Now the Hangover Is Here," by Aaron Tilley and Sadie Gurman (The Wall Street Journal, 2024). Bourbon Empire: The Past and Future of America's Whiskey, by Reid Mitenbuler (2015). "Code of Federal Regulations: Standards of Identity for Distilled Spirits," (Electronic Code of Federal Regulations). Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

As one researcher told us: “We’ve engineered a world where the most distracting device ever made is also the one we use to listen to music in the car." A new study tries to measure the cost.   SOURCES: Bapu Jena, economist, physician, and professor at Harvard Medical School. Chris Worsham, pulmonary and critical-care physician at Mass General Hospital, health-policy and public-health researcher at Harvard Medical School. Vishal Patel, surgery resident at Brigham and Women's Hospital, researcher at Harvard Medical School.   RESOURCES: "Smartphones, Online Music Streaming, and Traffic Fatalities," by Vishal Patel, Christopher Worsham, Michael Liu, and Bapu Jena (NBER, 2026). Random Acts of Medicine: The Hidden Forces That Sway Doctors, Impact Patients, and Shape Our Health, by Anupam Jena and Christopher Worsham (2023). "Mortality and treatment patterns among patients hospitalized with acute cardiovascular conditions during dates of national cardiology meetings," by Bapu Jena, Vinay Prasad, Dana Goldman, and John Romley (JAMA Internal Medicine, 2015). "Road Crash Fatalities on US Income Tax Days," by Donald Redelmeier and Christopher Yarnell (JAMA, 2012). "Memories of colonoscopy: a randomized trial," by Donald Redelmeier, Joel Katz, and Daniel Kahneman (PAIN, 2003).   EXTRAS: "Why Is There So Much Fraud in Academia?" by Freakonomics Radio (2024). "Why Is Flying Safer Than Driving?" by Freakonomics Radio (2023). "Why Is the U.S. So Good at Killing Pedestrians?" by Freakonomics Radio (2023). Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In blue cities across the country, unions and politicians want to ban self-driving cars. In this episode from the Search Engine podcast, PJ Vogt visits Boston to sort the facts from the propaganda. (Part two of a two-part series.)   SOURCES: Carl Richardson, ADA coordinator for the Massachusetts State House, president of the Guide Dog Users of Massachusetts. Gabriela Coletta Zapata, Boston City councilor from District 1. Julia Mejia, Boston City councilor at-large. Timothy B. Lee, author of Understanding AI newsletter.   RESOURCES: "Waymo Hits a Rough Patch in Washington, DC," by Aarian Marshall (WIRED, 2026). "New York drops plan to legalize robotaxis in setback for Waymo," by Andrew J. Hawkins (The Verge, 2026). "Waymo’s next five cities are all in red states," by Timothy B. Lee and Kai Williams (Understanding AI, 2025). "What Waymo could mean for Bostonians with disabilities: independence at their fingertips," by Carl Richardson (Boston Globe, 2025). "Planning, Development and Transportation on July 24, 2025," (Boston City Council, 2025). "Ride-Hailing Drivers in Massachusetts Win Right to Unionize," by Eli Tan (The New York Times, 2024). "East Coast Longshore Workers May Soon Strike," by Joe Demanuelle-Hall (Jacobin, 2024).   EXTRAS: "The Fascinatingly Mundane Secrets of the World’s Most Exclusive Nightclub," by Freakonomics Radio (2024). Search Engine, podcast by PJ Vogt. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

How a secret project at Google led to driverless cars on American roads.  Freakonomics Radio shares a story from our friends at Search Engine. (Part one of a two-part series.)   SOURCES: Alex Davies, author of Driven: The Race To Create the Autonomous Car. Chris Urmson, co-founder and C.E.O. of Aurora. Don Burnette, founder and C.E.O. of Kodiak AI. PJ Vogt, reporter, writer, and host of the Search Engine podcast. Sebastian Thrun, roboticist, C.E.O. of Sage AI Labs, adjunct faculty at Stanford University. Timothy B. Lee, author of Understanding AI newsletter.   RESOURCES: "Very few of Waymo’s most serious crashes were Waymo’s fault," by Kai Williams (Understand AI, 2025). Driven: The Race to Create the Autonomous Car, by Alex Davies (2021). "An Oral History of the Darpa Grand Challenge, the Grueling Robot Race That Launched the Self-Driving Car," by Alex Davies (WIRED, 2017). Understanding AI, newsletter on Substack. Waymo Safety Dashboard.   EXTRAS: "The Fascinatingly Mundane Secrets of the World’s Most Exclusive Nightclub," by Freakonomics Radio (2024). Search Engine, podcast by PJ Vogt. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

A ruthless (and ruthlessly efficient) industry is using digital tools to supercharge one of the world’s oldest behaviors. We look at how the industry works, and ask the scam-fighters what they’re doing about it.   SOURCES: Kati Daffan, former assistant director at the Federal Trade Commission's Division of Marketing Practices. Marti DeLiema, assistant professor of social work at the University of Minnesota. Mark Frank, professor of communications at the University at Buffalo.   RESOURCES: "Cambodian Scam Tycoon Wanted by U.S. Extradited to China," by Gabriele Steinhauser (Wall Street Journal, 2026). "The Rise and Fall Of Accused Cambodian Scam Kingpin Chen Zhi," by Low De Wei (Bloomberg, 2026). "Protecting Older Consumers 2024-2025," by the Federal Trade Commission (2025). "Meta is earning a fortune on a deluge of fraudulent ads, documents show," by Jeff Horwitz (Reuters, 2025). "Exposed to Scams: What Separates Victims from Non-victims?," by Marti DeLiema, Emma Fletcher, Christine Kieffer, Gary Mottola, Rubens Pessanha, and Melissa Trumpower (Stanford Center on Longevity, 2019). "Why do Nigerian Scammers Say They are from Nigeria?," by Cormac Herley (Microsoft Research, 2016). Thinking, Fast and Slow, by Daniel Kahneman (2013). FTC Fraud Reporting Portal. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Economists don’t usually talk about “culture.” But Joel Mokyr argues that it’s the engine of innovation — and the Nobel Prize committee agreed. Stephen Dubner sits down for a thousand-year conversation (including advice!) with the new Nobel laureate.   SOURCES: Joel Mokyr, economic historian at Northwestern University.   RESOURCES: Two Paths to Prosperity: Culture and Institutions in Europe and China, 1000–2000, by Avner Greif, Joel Mokyr, and, Guido Tabellini (2025). "The Outsize Role of Immigrants in US Innovation," by Shai Bernstein, Rebecca Diamond, Abhisit Jiranaphawiboon, Timothy McQuade, and Beatriz Pousada (NBER, 2023). A Culture of Growth: The Origins of the Modern Economy, by Joel Mokyr (2016). Why Nations Fail: The Origins of Power, Prosperity, and Poverty, by Daron Acemoglu and James Robinson (2012). "The Economics of Being Jewish," by Joel Mokyr (Critical Review, 2011). Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Just beneath the surface of the global economy, there is a hidden layer of dealmakers for whom war, chaos, and sanctions can be a great business opportunity. In this updated episode from 2025, journalists Javier Blas and Jack Farchy help us shine a light on the shadowy realm of commodity traders.   SOURCES: Javier Blas, opinion columnist at Bloomberg News. Jack Farchy, energy and commodities senior reporter at Bloomberg News. RESOURCES: The World For Sale: Money, Power, and the Traders Who Barter the Earth's Resources, by Javier Blas and Jack Farchy (2021) The King of Oil: The Secret Lives of Marc Rich, by Daniel Ammann (2010). EXTRAS: "How the Supermarket Helped America Win the Cold War (Update)" by Freakonomics Radio (2024). "The First Great American Industry," by Freakonomics Radio (2023). Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

... of bad reviews, meager financing, or artificial intelligence. But he is worried that the world is full of sloppy thinkers who mistake facts for the truth.   SOURCES: Werner Herzog, writer, filmmaker, and actor.   RESOURCES: The Future of Truth, by Werner Herzog (2025). Every Man for Himself and God Against All: A Memoir, by Werner Herzog (2023).   EXTRAS: "When Did We All Start Watching Documentaries?" by Freakonomics Radio (2025). "Werner Herzog Thinks His Films Are a Distraction," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2023). Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Existing drugs can sometimes be repurposed to treat rare diseases. But making that match can be hard — and the financial incentives are weak. Guest host Steve Levitt tries to solve the puzzle.   SOURCES: Chris Snyder, professor of economics at Dartmouth College. David Fajgenbaum, co-founder and president of Every Cure, physician-scientist at the University of Pennsylvania. Heather Stone, health science policy analyst at the Food & Drug Administration. Sarrin Chethik, senior policy analyst at the Market Shaping Accelerator.   RESOURCES: Chasing My Cure: A Doctor's Race to Turn Hope into Action; A Memoir, by David Fajgenbaum (2019). Strong Medicine: Creating Incentives for Pharmaceutical Research on Neglected Diseases, by Michael Kremer and Rachel Glennerster (2016). Market Shaping Accelerator. CURE ID Registry. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

When Richard Thaler first published Nudge, the world was just starting to believe in his brand of behavioral economics. In this 2021 episode, we ask: How has nudge theory held up in the face of a global financial meltdown, a pandemic, and other existential crises? SOURCES:Richard Thaler, professor of economics at the University of Chicago. RESOURCES:Nudge: The Final Edition, by Richard Thaler and Cass Sunstein (2021).Sludge: What Stops Us from Getting Things Done and What to Do About It, by Cass Sunstein (2021)."Sludge: Americans Spend 11.4 Billion Hours Filling Out Federal Paperwork," by Cass Sunstein (Big Think, 2021)."Carbon Taxation in Sweden," by Government Offices of Sweden Ministry of Finance (2021)."The Climate Club: How to Fix a Failing Global Effort," by William Nordhaus (Foreign Affairs, 2020)."Organ Donation: Presumed Consent and Focusing on What Matters," by Rebecca Brown (The Journal of Medical Ethics Blog, 2017). EXTRAS:"Sludge," series by Freakonomics Radio (2025).“People Aren’t Dumb. The World Is Hard. (Ep. 340 Rebroadcast),” by Freakonomics Radio (2018). Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The science says no, at least not in the athletic sense. But the psychic benefits can be large — just ask former N.F.L. star Ricky Williams. He says athletes should consider cannabis a healing drug, not a party drug. Even the N.F.L. is starting to agree. (Part two of a two-part series.) SOURCES:Angela Bryan, professor, associate chair for faculty development in the department of psychology and neuroscience at the University of Colorado, Boulder.Ricky Williams, former N.F.L. running back, founder of Highsman. RESOURCES:"Using A Lab On Wheels To Study Weed From Dispensaries," by Science Friday (2024)."Exercise-induced euphoria and anxiolysis do not depend on endogenous opioids in humans," by Michael Siebers, Sarah Biedermann, Laura Bindila, Beat Lutz, and Johannes Fuss (Psychoneuroendocrinology, 2021)."Endocannabinoids mediate runner’s high," by Sudhakaran Prabakaran (Science Signaling, 2015)."Cannabis and Exercise Science: A Commentary on Existing Studies and Suggestions for Future Directions," by Angela Bryan, Arielle Gilman, and Kent Hutchison (Sports Medicine, 2015).Run Ricky Run, documentary (2010). EXTRAS:"Is America Switching from Booze to Weed?" series by Freakonomics Radio (2024). Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In sports, the rules are meant to be sacrosanct. But when it comes to performance-enhancing drugs, the slope is super-slippery. (Part one of a two-part series.) SOURCES:April Henning, associate professor of international sport management at Heriot-Watt University in Edinburgh, Scotland.Aron D'Souza, founder of the Enhanced Games.Floyd Landis, former professional cyclist, founder of Floyd's of Leadville.Louisa Thomas, staff writer at The New Yorker. RESOURCES:Doping: A Sporting History, by April Henning and Paul Dimeo (2022)."The Man Who Brought Down Lance Armstrong," by Matt Hart (The Atlantic, 2018).Cycle of Lies: The Fall of Lance Armstrong, by Juliet Macur (2014).Positively False: The Real Story of How I Won the Tour de France, by Floyd Landis (2007).Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, by Lewis Carroll (1865). EXTRAS:"Has Lance Armstrong Finally Come Clean?" by Freakonomics Radio (2018). Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

They used to be the N.F.L.’s biggest stars, with paychecks to match. Now their salaries are near the bottom, and their careers are shorter than ever. In this updated episode from 2025, we speak with an analytics guru, an agent, an economist, and some former running backs to understand why. SOURCES:Brian Burke, sports data scientist at ESPN.Roland Fryer, professor of economics at Harvard University.LeSean McCoy, former running back in the N.F.L., co-host for Fox's daily studio show, "The Facility."Robert Smith, former running back for the Minnesota Vikings, N.F.L. analyst.Robert Turbin, former running back, N.F.L. analyst for CBS Sports HQ, college football announcer.Jeffery Whitney, founder and president at The Sports & Entertainment Group. RESOURCES:"The Economics of Running Backs," by Roland Fryer (Wall Street Journal, 2024).Confessions of a Hero-Worshiper, by Stephen Dubner (2007).The Rest of the Iceberg: An Insider’s View on the World of Sports and Celebrity, by Robert Smith (2004). EXTRAS:"Roland Fryer Refuses to Lie to Black America," by Freakonomics Radio (2022)."Why Does the Most Monotonous Job in the World Pay $1 Million?" by Freakonomics Radio (2022). Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

For 50 years, the healthcare industry has been trying (and failing) to harness the power of artificial intelligence. It may finally be ready for prime time. What will this mean for human doctors — and the rest of us? (Part four of “The Freakonomics Radio Guide to Getting Better.”) SOURCES:Bob Wachter, professor, chair of the department of medicine at the University of California, San Francisco.Pierre Elias, cardiologist, assistant professor of biomedical informatics at Columbia University, medical director for artificial intelligence at NewYork-Presbyterian Hospital. RESOURCES:A Giant Leap: How AI Is Transforming Healthcare and What That Means for Our Future, by Bob Wachter (2026)."Epic Systems (MyChart)," by Acquired (2025)."Detecting structural heart disease from electrocardiograms using AI," by Pierre Elias and Timothy Poterucha (Nature, 2025)."What Are the Risks of Sharing Medical Records With ChatGPT?" by Maggie Astor (New York Times, 2025)."Will Generative Artificial Intelligence Deliver on Its Promise in Health Care?" by Bob Wachter and Erik Brynjolfsson (JAMA, 2023).The Digital Doctor: Hope, Hype, and Harm at the Dawn of Medicine’s Computer Age, by Bob Wachter (2015). EXTRAS:"The Doctor Won’t See You Now," by Freakonomics Radio (2025)."How to Stop Worrying and Love the Robot Apocalypse (Update)," by Freakonomics Radio (2024). Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Zeke Emanuel (a physician, medical ethicist, and policy wonk) has some different ideas for how to lead a healthy and meaningful life. It starts with ice cream. (Part three of “The Freakonomics Radio Guide to Getting Better.”) SOURCES:Zeke Emanuel, oncologist, bioethicist, professor at the University of Pennsylvania. RESOURCES:Eat Your Ice Cream: Six Simple Rules for a Long and Healthy Life, by Zeke Emanuel (2026)."Nutrition Science’s Most Preposterous Result," by David Merritt Johns (The Atlantic, 2023). EXTRAS:"Is Ozempic as Magical as It Sounds?" by Freakonomics Radio (2024)."The Suddenly Diplomatic Rahm Emanuel," by Freakonomics Radio (2023)."Ari Emanuel Is Never Indifferent," by Freakonomics Radio (2023)."What’s the “Best” Exercise?" by Freakonomics Radio (2014). Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

After five years, Levitt is ending People I (Mostly) Admire, and will start hosting the occasional Freakonomics Radio episode. We couldn’t be happier. SOURCES:Steve Levitt, co-author of Freakonomics and host of People I (Mostly) Admire. RESOURCES:"How to Help Kids Succeed," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2025)."Feeling Sound and Hearing Color," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2024)."Richard Dawkins on God, Genes, and Murderous Baby Cuckoos," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2024)."Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Some Advice for You," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2024)."Drawing from Life (and Death)," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2023)."Yuval Noah Harari Thinks Life is Meaningless and Amazing," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2022)."Is This the Future of High School?," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2022)."Does Death Have to Be a Death Sentence?," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2022)."Sal Khan: 'If It Works for 15 Cousins, It Could Work for a Billion People.'" by People I (Mostly) Admire (2021)."Jared Diamond on the Downfall of Civilizations — and His Optimism for Ours," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2021)."Amanda & Lily Levitt Share What It’s Like to be Steve’s Daughters," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2021)."How Rahm Emanuel Would Run the World," by Freakonomics Radio (2020).The Levitt Lab. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

It regulates 20 percent of the U.S. economy, and its commissioner has an aggressive agenda — faster drug approvals, healthier food, cures for diabetes and cancer. How much can he deliver? (Part two of “The Freakonomics Radio Guide to Getting Better.”) SOURCES:Marty Makary, commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration. RESOURCES:"Clinical Trials Affected by Research Grant Terminations at the National Institutes of Health," by Vishal Patel, Michael Liu, and Anupam Jena (JAMA Internal Medicine, 2025)."What the evidence tells us about Tylenol, leucovorin, and autism," by Matthew Herper (STAT, 2025)."I Run the F.D.A. Pharma Ads Are Hurting Americans." by Marty Makary (New York Times, 2025).Blind Spots: When Medicine Gets It Wrong, and What It Means for Our Health, by Marty Makary (2024). EXTRAS:"Are You Really Allergic to Penicillin?" by Freakonomics Radio (2025)."How to Fix the Hot Mess of U.S. Healthcare," by Freakonomics Radio (2021)."Bad Medicine, Part 3: Death by Diagnosis," by Freakonomics Radio (2016). Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

We all want to stay sharp, and forestall the cognitive effects of aging. But do brain supplements actually work? Are they safe? And why doesn’t the F.D.A. even know what’s in them? (Part one of “The Freakonomics Radio Guide to Getting Better.”) SOURCES:Marty Makary, commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration.Peter Attia, physician, author, and host of The Peter Attia Drive.Pieter Cohen, associate professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School, physician at the Cambridge Health Alliance. RESOURCES:"Protein Powders and Shakes Contain High Levels of Lead," by Paris Martineau (Consumer Reports, 2025)."Accuracy of Labeling of Galantamine Generic Drugs and Dietary Supplements," by Pieter Cohen, Bram Jacobs, Koenraad Van Hoorde, and Céline Vanhee (JAMA, 2024).Blind Spots: When Medicine Gets It Wrong, and What It Means for Our Health, by Marty Makary (2024).Outlive: The Science and Art of Longevity, by Petter Attia (2023)."Revealing the hidden dangers of dietary supplements," by Jennifer Couzin-Frankel (Science, 2015). EXTRAS:"China Is Run by Engineers. America Is Run by Lawyers." by Freakonomics Radio (2025)."How to Fix the Hot Mess of U.S. Healthcare," by Freakonomics Radio (2021). Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

One Yale economist certainly thinks so. But even if he’s right, are economists any better? We find out, in this update of a 2022 episode. SOURCES:James Choi, professor of finance at the Yale School of Management.Morgan Housel, personal finance author and partner at the Collaborative Fund. RESOURCES:The Art of Spending Money: Simple Choices for a Richer Life, by Morgan Housel (2025).“Popular Personal Financial Advice versus the Professors,” by James J. Choi (Journal of Economic Perspectives, 2022).“Media Persuasion and Consumption: Evidence from the Dave Ramsey Show,” by Felix Chopra (SSRN, 2021).The Psychology of Money: Timeless Lessons on Wealth, Greed, and Happiness, by Morgan Housel (2020).“In Bogle Family, It’s Either Passive or Aggressive,” by Liam Pleven (Wall Street Journal, 2013). EXTRAS: “Harold Pollack on Why Managing Your Money Is as Easy as Taking Out the Garbage,” by People I (Mostly) Admire (2021).“People Aren’t Dumb. The World Is Hard,” by Freakonomics Radio (2018).“Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Money (But Were Afraid to Ask),” by Freakonomics Radio (2017).“The Stupidest Thing You Can Do With Your Money,” by Freakonomics Radio (2017). Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.