Scratch: CMO Interviews

In this episode of Scratch, Ariel Kelman, President & CMO of Salesforce, shows how a category leader can still think like a challenger through the power of education, not persuasion. Education beats persuasion when you make community the flywheel: by pairing product truth with peer proof through events like Dreamforce, Trailhead, and forums, so customers learn how to win with your product (not just why it’s great). That mindset turns advocacy into momentum.But teaching only lands if the tech actually works in the flow of “work”, so Ariel’s rule is being able to put data before demos. He emphasizes the need to harmonize and govern customer data in Data Cloud so AI agents have context, then deploy them where they matter. For example, a product Q&A agent spun up in weeks drove 700k+ customer chats, and their website/service agents have resolved 1.6M cases because they understand real customer history, permissions, and next best actions.Finally, as a brand, you need to be Customer Zero and balance quick wins with long bets. Dogfood your offerings first to iterate fast and convert internal proofs into external playbooks, then scale what works. Watch the video version of this podcast on YouTube ▶️: https://youtu.be/92Rfv19ypQE          📚 Chapters:00:00 – Intro & Ariel’s challenger lens  🎙️05:35 – Agentforce: AI agents in the flow of work 🤖10:40 – Data Cloud: the prerequisite for accurate AI ☁️12:56– Momentum: quick wins while building the platform 🚀13:23 – “Infinite SDR capacity” & rethinking lead flow  🔁14:39 – Autonomous vs. augmenting agents (Finnair)  🤝26:54 – Customer Zero: dogfooding at scale 🐶27:47 – Dreamforce: education as strategy 🎪36:10 – Community as the marketing flywheel 🧑‍🤝‍🧑41:35 – Salesforce’s AI point of difference (trust + data) 🛡️45:21 – Cutting through AI noise with use-case education 📚🖊️Mentioned in the show:Challenger brand mentioned: Ramp – spend management platform with software-defined controls Salesforce Agentforce – AI agents embedded in Salesforce workflowsData Cloud – Salesforce’s customer data platform (CDP) Dreamforce – Salesforce’s flagship community conferenceFinnair – Finland’s largest airline (Agentforce case mentioned)Akamai – content delivery network (CDN) pioneerAmazon/AWS – cloud infrastructure & servicesSiebel – Oracle’s legacy on-prem CRM suiteSnowflake – cloud data platform & data warehouseApple – hardware, software & services (self-cannibalization mindset reference)Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Ariel Kelman, President & CMO of Salesforce, in this episode.Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com & LinkedInFind Eric on LinkedInFind Ariel on LinkedIn. Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.If you’re interested in learning more about marketing from successful CMOs, we compiled a list of the top 5 CMO podcasts to listen to in 2024; check it out here 🔗  https://www.wearerival.com/content-hub-articles/cmo-podcasts-you-cannot-afford-to-miss-in-2024

In this episode of Scratch, Eric chats with Will Pearson, Co-Founder of Ocean Bottle, the brand turning reusable bottles into vehicles for global impact. One of the biggest takeaways from Will’s story is how Ocean Bottle has made impact completely non-negotiable in its business model; every purchase is tied directly to measurable change. Rather than chasing the traditional direct-to-consumer routes, the brand leaned into B2B partnerships as its true growth engine, scaling faster through collaborations like Ed Sheeran’s tour than through paid ads. Will also highlights that in a purpose-driven category, the goal isn’t to outcompete others but to grow the category as a whole. Ocean Bottle’s marketing reflects this mindset, relying on storytelling backed by proof, from the Change Collective initiative to transparent reporting on every kilo of plastic collected. Ultimately, the key learning for marketers is clear: purpose isn’t dead; it is evolving. And partnerships are how purpose-led brands grow.Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: [https://youtu.be/OQrmbdzNkg8]📚 Chapters:00:00 – Intro & Will’s background03:25 – Challenger brand shoutout: Freaks of Nature04:13 – Ocean Bottle’s mission & impact05:11 – Balancing purpose and profit07:22 – Competition (and why it doesn’t matter)11:12 - Mobilising community for impact12:48 – Launching B+ for leading B Corp brands19:09 – Marketing evolution: from DTC to partnerships22.05 – B2B growth channel (Ed Sheeran & others)23:25 – Lessons learned from 6 years of marketing25:13 – The next stage: scaling from 1M to 10M bottles26:48 – Differentiating through product innovation28:25 – Ocean Bottle’s culture of innovation31:47 – Lightning round (pizza, campaigns, pet peeves)🖊️Mentioned in the show:Freaks of Nature – reef-safe sunscreen brand co-founded by Kelly SlaterThe North Face – Ocean Bottle brand partnershipEd Sheeran – Ocean Bottle bottles featured on his tourNike - purpose-led brand referencePatagonia – purpose-led brand referenceScratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Will Pearson, Co-Founder of Ocean Bottle, in this episode.Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com & LinkedInFind Eric on LinkedInFind Will on LinkedIn. Say hi at media@wearerival.com. We’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.If you’re interested in learning more about marketing from successful CMOs, we compiled a list of the top 5 CMO podcasts to listen to in 2024; check it out here 🔗  https://www.wearerival.com/content-hub-articles/cmo-podcasts-you-cannot-afford-to-miss-in-2024

In this episode of Scratch, Eric chats with Lili, the Chief Marketing & Experience Officer of Barclays US Consumer Bank, about how she brought a challenger mindset from the hospitality and entertainment industry into one of the biggest banking players in the world. Lili shares how her experience at MGM shaped her approach to customer experience, and how she’s transformed Barclays to be more customer-centric, putting real people at the heart of every journey. Innovation at Barclays doesn’t start with technology; it starts with people: Lili introduced live client call listening for executives and designed accountable customer journeys to keep the brand ahead in a fast-changing industryThe conversation also explores the delicate balance between digital efficiency and maintaining the human touch, why curiosity is now an essential skill for marketers, and the ways CMOs can leverage insights from outside their own category. Packed with practical advice and real-world examples, this episode is a must-watch for anyone looking to drive customer-focused growth and bring humanity back into marketing.Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️:  https://youtu.be/MgNhEchujRY📚 Chapters:(00:00:00) – Intro 🎙️(00:02:27) – Favorite Challenger-brand 🥤(00:06:04) – Barclays US brand overview 🏦(00:07:56) – Lili’s journey from Hospitality to Banking  🎰(00:16:41) – “Make It Better” and mindset shifts 🚀(00:18:43) – Customer journeys and accountability 🔑(00:22:56) – Restoring humanity in marketing 🤝(00:27:11) – Balancing AI efficiency with loyalty 🤖❤️(00:33:11) – Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show:Poppi SodaTony’s Chocolonely – ScratchNationwide (UK) report - Customer journey organizational modelScratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Lili Tomovich, the Chief Marketing & Experience Officer of Barclays US, in this episode.Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com & LinkedInFind Eric on LinkedInFind Lili on LinkedInSay hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.If you’re interested in learning more about marketing from successful CMOs, we compiled a list of the top 5 CMO podcasts to listen to in 2024; check it out here 🔗  https://www.wearerival.com/content-hub-articles/cmo-podcasts-you-cannot-afford-to-miss-in-2024

Watch our documentary on the Future of the CMO from this link 📺:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXBKelmQomMIn this episode, Daniel Blumer, CMO of Restaurant Brands International (EMEA), breaks down how Burger King’s parent company keeps four iconic brands fresh in a noisy quick-service world. From ditching 1,000-slide reports to tapping local culture first, Daniel shares the practical framework that powers 7,000+ restaurants across Europe, the Middle East, and Africa.One key takeaway: Stop averaging—start individualizing. Daniel explains how looking at every store’s micro-market unleashed hidden growth, and why “emotional first, functional later” has become the new rulebook for launching Popeyes or Tim Hortons in new countries. If you lead marketing for a multi-brand, multi-market business, this conversation is your cheat sheet.Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/ws_GuCGOAlQ          📚 Chapters:(00:00:00) - Intro 🎙️(00:04:00) - Favorite challenger brand 🏆(00:05:48) - Overview of RBI(00:12:25) - Building Cultural Relevance 📊(00:18:56) - Sales, budget & market-share framework 💵(00:28:00) - Boutique agency network strategy 🤝(00:33:12) - Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show:Liquid deathScratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, joined this episode by Daniel Blumer of Restaurant Brands International.Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedInFind Eric on LinkedInFind Daniel on LinkedIn.Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.If you’re interested in learning more about marketing from successful CMOs, we compiled a list of the top 5 CMO podcasts to listen to in 2024; check it out here 🔗  https://www.wearerival.com/content-hub-articles/cmo-podcasts-you-cannot-afford-to-miss-in-2024

This week, it's a Scratch special. Fresh off The Croissette at Cannes 2025, Baby Eric and Baby Jenna join us to share their key takeaways from the most talked-about event in all of marketing and advertising. As yes, we said Baby Eric and Baby Jenna. All courtesy of AI of course.But do expect serious, insightful, sometimes rogue insight and opinions as usual from the Rival team all about what CMOs need to know from Cannes this year. What better way to discuss a major marketing event than in the shape of little babies, and we are emptying our diapers on the following: The death of the big 6AI reshaping the industry… or is it?How Gen Z all hate their phones, and experiential is the new digitalAnd much much more. In the words of Baby-Eric: Burp your CMO and let’s talk takeaways because baby, we’ve got thoughts!  Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.If you’re interested in learning more about marketing from successful CMOs, we compiled a list of the top 5 CMO podcasts to listen to in 2024; check it out here 🔗  https://www.wearerival.com/content-hub-articles/cmo-podcasts-you-cannot-afford-to-miss-in-2024

Watch out documentary on the Future of the CMO from this link 📺:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXBKelmQomMIn this live-recorded episode, Phoebe Corcoran, Brand & Communications Lead at Peanut, tells us how a two-person marketing team fuels the world’s fastest-growing social network for women across fertility, pregnancy, motherhood, and menopause. We discuss how they used real-time user insights to create headline-grabbing ideas - from the #FourSmiles statue takeover that spotlighted post-partum depression to the raw, viral power of #InvisibleMothers, a campaign that generated 100 million+ impressions and global press.Throughout the conversation, Phoebe shares the art-and-science balance that lets Peanut punch above its weight: mining community data for emotional hooks, knowing when to deploy “hero” creative versus hard-working performance assets, and orchestrating guerrilla-style out-of-home activations that cost peanuts yet earn national coverage. If you want to learn how to scale your business on startup budgets while resonating with millions, then this episode is for you.Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: 📚 Chapters:00:22:20 – What you need to do differently ⚡(00:00:00) – Intro 🎙️(00:01:57) – Phoebe’s favourite challenger brands 🏆(00:02:55) – What is Peanut? 📲(00:07:30) – Invisible mothers campaign 😊(00:14:25) – Choosing the best ideas  👀(00:17:21) – Art & Science balance ⚖️(00:22:20) – What you need to do differently ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show:Peanut appMaternal Mental Health Alliance#InvisibleMothers campaignHere We FloScratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Phoebe Corcoran of Peanut in this episode.Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com & LinkedInFind Eric on LinkedIn.Find Phoebe on LinkedInSay hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.If you’re interested in learning more about marketing from successful CMOs, we compiled a list of the top 5 CMO podcasts to listen to in 2024; check it out here 🔗  https://www.wearerival.com/content-hub-articles/cmo-podcasts-you-cannot-afford-to-miss-in-2024

Watch our documentary on the Future of the CMO from this link 📺:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXBKelmQomMIn this episode of Scratch, Eric sits down with Molly Landman, the first Chief Marketing Officer of PetSafe, the 30-year-old pet-tech pioneer behind invisible fences, automatic litter boxes, GPS collars, and more. Molly explains how she inherited “the biggest pet brand no one knows,” why an early push into broad awareness failed to lift sales, and how a tighter focus on consumer jobs-to-be-done now guides everything from R&D roadmaps to TikTok creative. She details the work of collapsing siloed teams into a single insights-to-activation engine, riding rivals’ top-of-funnel spend instead of out-spending them, and finding pockets of growth even as the overall pet-durables market turns negative. If you’re looking for lessons on brand refresh, gross-margin optimisation, or balancing performance with brand, this conversation delivers a practical, P&L-driven playbook.Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/vIdrjkKh49A📚 Chapters:(00:00:00) – Intro 🎙️(00:02:42) – Favorite Challenger-brand(00:04:36) – PetSafe overview 🐾(00:11:00) – Molly’s journey at Petsafe 📈(00:31:36) – Growing with less in a shrinking category 💡(00:38:25) – Taking the CMO role(00:40:26) – Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show:Halo (dog collar) Bob Moesta episode - Scratch Jobs to be done theoryScratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Molly Landman of Petsafe in this episodeFind Rival online at www.wearerival.com & LinkedInFind Eric on LinkedInFind Molly on LinkedIn.Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.If you’re interested in learning more about marketing from successful CMOs, we compiled a list of the top 5 CMO podcasts to listen to in 2024; check it out here 🔗  https://www.wearerival.com/content-hub-articles/cmo-podcasts-you-cannot-afford-to-miss-in-2024

Watch our documentary on the Future of the CMO from this link 📺:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXBKelmQomMThis week, we sit down with Nicole Parlapiano, CMO of Tubi, the leading free, ad-supported streaming television (FAST) with the largest content library on the planet - 275 K+ movies and TV episodes. Nicole unpacks how she’s rewriting the rules of entertainment marketing: brand-first positioning, bottom-up cultural relevance, and creative swings that punch way above their media weight.One of the key takeaways from this episode is Nicole’s conviction that the monoculture is DEAD - growth now comes from igniting micro-communities at scale. We also dive into how commercial acumen (private-equity roots, P&L obsession) makes a modern CMO indispensable at board level, why most brands misuse social media, and the power of constraints to unlock breakthrough creativity. If you’re building a challenger brand - or simply fighting for standout work - this episode is for you!Watch the video version of this podcast on YouTube ▶️: https://youtu.be/cBuq9amnM9c 📚 Chapters:(00:00:00) - Intro 🎙️(00:03:29) - Nicole’s background(00:14:30) - Favourite challenger brand 🌶️(00:17:03) - Challenging Convention 🌐(00:26:02) - Rethinking social 📱(00:33:55) - Creativity, risk & Super Bowl lessons 🎨(00:38:32) - Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show:JC penny Chilis Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Nicole Parlapiano of TUBI in this episode.Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com & LinkedIn.Find Eric on LinkedIn.Find Nicole on LinkedIn.Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.If you’re interested in learning more about marketing from successful CMOs, we compiled a list of the top 5 CMO podcasts to listen to in 2024; check it out here 🔗  https://www.wearerival.com/content-hub-articles/cmo-podcasts-you-cannot-afford-to-miss-in-2024

Watch our documentary on the Future of the CMO from this link 📺:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXBKelmQomMOn this week’s episode of Scratch, Jake Karls, the energetic co-founder and Chief Rainmaker of Midday Squares, joins Eric to unpack the reality-show marketing strategy that’s rocketing their functional chocolate bars onto shelves across North America. From filming therapy sessions to smashing Costco road-show records, Jake explains why attention is today’s most valuable currency and how being unapologetically authentic turns casual shoppers into lifelong fans.If you want a front-row seat to a modern challenger playbook - complete with community gamification, LinkedIn power moves, and a sneak peek at the next growth phase - this episode is for you!Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/3I86AGZQRvY          📚 Chapters:(00:00:00) - Intro 🎙️(00:04:18) - Jake’s favorite challenger brand: Liquid Death 💧(00:08:50) - What is Midday Squares? 🍫(00:10:45) - The reality-show marketing playbook 🎥(00:19:00) - Breaking Costco’s sales record & community gamification 🏬(00:24:30) - Scaling a media-first model 📈(00:30:30) - LinkedIn: the underrated channel 🔗(00:33:45) - Data vs. creativity in marketing 📊(00:41:00) - Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show:Liquid DeathPatagonia – “Don’t Buy This Jacket” campaignNike storytelling modelWhoop wearableScratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Jake Karls of Midday Squares in this episode.Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter. Find Eric on LinkedIn.Find Jake on LinkedIn.Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.If you’re interested in learning more about marketing from successful CMOs, we compiled a list of the top 5 CMO podcasts to listen to in 2024; check it out here 🔗  https://www.wearerival.com/content-hub-articles/cmo-podcasts-you-cannot-afford-to-miss-in-2024

Watch our documentary on the Future of the CMO from this link 📺:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXBKelmQomMIn this episode, Eric sits down with Åsa Borg, the Chief Marketing & Commercial Operations Officer at Polestar, the Swedish electric performance car brand that's challenging the automotive industry. Since launching in 2017, Polestar has rapidly expanded to 27 markets globally with their lineup of electric vehicles. Åsa brings her wealth of experience from 20 years at Volvo Cars to this challenger brand, offering unique insights on the difference between marketing for an established brand versus building one from scratch.One of the key takeaways from this conversation is how Polestar approached sustainability—making it core to their brand identity rather than just a marketing message. Åsa shares that transparency is a fundamental value for Polestar, especially in an industry that has historically hidden its environmental impact. We also dive into their decision to bring creative and media capabilities in-house, which has allowed for greater consistency, speed, and control over their brand expression across all 27 markets. Another fascinating aspect of our discussion explores how AI is being integrated into their marketing operations, from improving translation to maintaining brand tonality across markets. If you're interested in automotive marketing, sustainability branding, or building in-house creative capabilities, this episode is packed with valuable insights!Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/fSEW2Vl2Sf8  📚 Chapters:(00:00:00) - Intro 🎙️(00:03:02) - Åsa’s view on challenger brands in the EV space 🏆(00:04:29) - What is Polestar?(00:09:20) - Sustainability as a core brand value 📊(00:13:08) - Creative campaigns and testing approach 🎬(00:27:09) - Employer branding 🖨️(00:34:50) - Åsa’s commercial responsibilities 💼(00:37:03) - Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show:Polestar’s Own CampaignArctic Circle cars campaignScratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he's joined by Åsa Borg of Polestar in this episode.Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com & LinkedInFind Eric on LinkedInFind Åsa on LinkedIn.Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.If you’re interested in learning more about marketing from successful CMOs, we compiled a list of the top 5 CMO podcasts to listen to in 2024; check it out here 🔗  https://www.wearerival.com/content-hub-articles/cmo-podcasts-you-cannot-afford-to-miss-in-2024

In this episode, we sit down with Khalid El Khatib, the Chief Marketing Officer of Consumer Reports, one of America’s most trusted and oldest consumer advocacy organizations. Khalid unpacks how he’s transitioning Conaumer Reports from a “publisher” mindset to a platform strategy that emphasizes product-led growth, user-centric advocacy, and yes, the iconic lab testing (including a cat-hair-laden robotic vacuum test).One of the key takeaways here is how community can be a company’s competitive moat, and how bringing in fresh digital tactics doesn’t have to mean losing an 88-year legacy of credibility. Another recurring theme is the intergenerational aspect of CR’s brand story - how do you engage a loyal but aging membership and a new crop of digitally native consumers at the same time? If you’ve ever wondered how to future-proof an institution while staying true to its roots, then this conversation is for you!Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/K-OrSj6ioiA          📚 Chapters:(00:00:00) – Intro 🎙️(00:03:00) – Khalid’s favorite challenger brand 🏆(00:06:45) – Overview of Consumer Reports 📋(00:16:31) – Approaching community 🚀(00:28:11) – Succeeding in a SaaS environment 🤝(00:35:28) – What makes a good CMO ⚙️(00:41:05) – Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show:New York Magazine Duolingo Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Khalid El Khatib of Consumer Reports in this episode.Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn.Find Eric on LinkedIn.Find Khalid on LinkedIn.Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.If you’re interested in learning more about marketing from successful CMOs, we compiled a list of the top 5 CMO podcasts to listen to in 2024; check it out here 🔗  https://www.wearerival.com/content-hub-articles/cmo-podcasts-you-cannot-afford-to-miss-in-2024

We’re excited to sit down with Gastón Tourn, the Chief Growth Officer of Oddbox, a subscription service rescuing produce that would otherwise go to waste. In this conversation, Gastón dives into the importance of genuine storytelling, the fascinating psychology behind “Veg Haters,” and why focusing on customer insight (rather than competitors) unlocks true growth potential.One of the key takeaways from this episode is Gastón’s belief that marketers should read fiction writers—like Hemingway—to understand storytelling frameworks that connect on a deeper human level. Another recurring theme is his approach to balancing long-term brand-building with short-term performance—a common challenge for any marketer who needs to do “more with less.” If you’ve ever wondered how to turn customer complaints into an engaging campaign, or if you simply love the idea of “ugly” fruits and veggies saving the world, then this episode is for you!Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/DWQzGdyFj-U    📚 Chapters:00:00:00 – Intro 🎙️00:03:02 – What is Oddbox? 🥕00:08:40 – Gastón’s favorite challenger brand 🏆00:11:16 – Storytelling that matters – the Hemingway hack ✍️00:23:10 – Focusing on customers, not competitors 🤝00:34:03 – How to Approach ROI with the Board 🦟00:40:25 – Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show:The Long and the Short of it: Balancing Short and Long-Term Marketing Strategies Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Gastón Tourn of Oddbox in this episode.Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter. Find Eric on LinkedIn.Find Gastón on LinkedIn.Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.If you’re interested in learning more about marketing from successful CMOs, we compiled a list of the top 5 CMO podcasts to listen to in 2024; check it out here 🔗  https://www.wearerival.com/content-hub-articles/cmo-podcasts-you-cannot-afford-to-miss-in-2024

Check out our new podcast ‘Ripples’ on Microcultures from the links 🔗 below 👇🎙️ Listen on Apple podcasts here🎧 Listen on Spotify hereIn this episode, we sit down with Fabio Tambosi, Senior Vice President of Global Marketing at ESL FACEIT Group (EFG)—the world’s largest esports and gaming ecosystem. Fabio shares his journey from a near-pro soccer career to marketing roles at Nike, Adidas, and Saucony before stepping into the high-velocity realm of esports.One of the biggest takeaways from this conversation is Fabio’s approach to “unlearning” old habits. Drawing on his experience managing iconic sports brands, Fabio explains why empowering teams, trusting the community, and staying humble are critical for success in an always-evolving digital landscape. With more than 3.2B gamers globally, Fabio believes co-creation and community-led content represent the future of modern marketing—both in esports and beyond.Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/xEKUBtePN3E 📚 Chapters:(00:00:00) – Intro 🎙️(00:04:20) – Fabio’s Challenger Brand(00:06:56) – Overview of ESL FACEIT Group 🕹️(00:09:20) – From Soccer Dream to Accidental Marketer ⚽(00:18:43) – Unlearning & Asking ‘Simple’ Questions 🤔(00:19:49) – Trusting the Team & Creative Process 💡(00:24:21) – Why you need to empower your team 👥(00:38:00) – Where Brands go Wrong 🏗️(00:40:50) – Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show:Red BullNike’s 'Dream Crazy' CampaignCall of DutyScratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Fabio Tambosi of ESL FACEIT Group in this episode.Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter. Find Eric on LinkedIn and tweet him @efulwiler. Find Fabio on LinkedIn.Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.If you’re interested in learning more about marketing from successful CMOs, we compiled a list of the top 5 CMO podcasts to listen to in 2024; check it out here 🔗  https://www.wearerival.com/content-hub-articles/cmo-podcasts-you-cannot-afford-to-miss-in-2024

Check out our new podcast ‘Ripples’ on Microcultures from the links 🔗 below 👇🎙️ Listen on Apple podcasts here🎧 Listen on Spotify here hereIn this episode, Kaiwei Tang, CEO & Co-Founder of Light, reveals how a 10-year-old “anti-smartphone” brand has cultivated a dedicated community by doing less. Light’s flagship product, the Light Phone, eliminates data-hungry apps, social media, and constant notifications—replacing them with practical tools and pure utility. Kaiwei shares how organic word-of-mouth, celebrity shout-outs, and unwavering brand values fuel Light’s growth in a world where “paid ads” often dominate the startup playbook.From experiencing the anxiety of leaving your smartphone at home to feeling the freedom of minimal tech, this conversation uncovers how Light stands apart from Big Tech’s attention-driven business model. If you’ve ever wanted a more balanced relationship with technology—or you’re just intrigued by how a brand can shape culture through less, then this episode is for you!Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/3hXkhcYlNlc          📚 Chapters:(00:00:00) – Intro 🎙️(00:04:01) – Meet Kaiwei Tang and the Light Brand 💡(00:17:02) – What Marketing is for Light 🚀(00:24:51) – Jobs to be Done for Light 📢(00:34:03) – The Future for Light 🔮(00:40:00) – Lessons from a Product-Led Mindset 🛠️(00:47:13) – The One Thing to Do Differently ✅🖊️Mentioned in the show:RemarkableAaron Paul’s Endorsement on Light PhoneScratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities to help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and in this episode, he’s joined by Kaiwei Tang, CEO & Co-Founder of Light.Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter. Find Eric on LinkedIn.Find Kaiwei on LinkedIn.Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.If you’re interested in learning more about marketing from successful CMOs, we compiled a list of the top 5 CMO podcasts to listen to in 2024; check it out here 🔗  https://www.wearerival.com/content-hub-articles/cmo-podcasts-you-cannot-afford-to-miss-in-2024

Check out our new podcast ‘Ripples’ on Microcultures from the links 🔗 below 👇🎙️ Listen on Apple podcasts here🎧 Listen on Spotify here hereIn this episode, Eric sits down with Radhika Duggal, CMO of Major League Soccer, to discuss the league’s explosive growth and unique approach to sports marketing in the United States. Radhika brings insights from her time at household-name brands like JP Morgan and Pfizer, revealing how a data-driven approach helps MLS turn viral moments (like Lionel Messi’s arrival) into real, long-term fandom. She also shares why “customer obsession” is crucial in sports—especially as Gen Z and new digital habits transform the way fans consume and connect with their favorite teams.From the balance of art and science in modern marketing to building genuine internal culture, Radhika explains how soccer is uniting people both in stadiums and behind screens, making MLS one of the most interesting “challenger” leagues to watch—no matter which sport you prefer.▶️ Watch the video version of this episode: https://youtu.be/VLnp9neNIBA📚 Chapters(00:00:00) – Intro 🎙️(00:03:59) – Radhika’s favorite challenger brand 🏆(00:07:08) – Overview of Major League Soccer ⚽(00:10:00) – Consumer behavior and data-driven insights 📊(00:20:45) – MLS’s playbook to growth 📣(00:29:28) – Balancing data, humanity, and team culture 🤝(00:39:48) – Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the Show:Modelo’s recruiter campaignBain Values Pyramid (Framework for consumer-facing value)Liquid Death (Challenger brand)Apple TV – Major League Soccer Season PassScratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Radhika Duggal of MLS in this episode.Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter. Find Eric on LinkedIn,Find Radhika on LinkedIn.Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.If you’re interested in learning more about marketing from successful CMOs, we compiled a list of the top 5 CMO podcasts to listen to in 2024; check it out here 🔗  https://www.wearerival.com/content-hub-articles/cmo-podcasts-you-cannot-afford-to-miss-in-2024

In this episode, Diana Springer, Group Head of Brand & Marketing at Standard Bank, talks about preserving trust while infusing fresh creativity into Africa’s largest financial institution. With a heritage spanning 162 years and 15M+ customers, Standard Bank has every reason to play it safe—yet Diana reveals how her team fosters innovation, internal advocacy, and an emotive brand narrative in a typically functional category.From her agency background (Ogilvy, Saatchi) to the challenges of marketing a global, matrixed financial services group, Diana shares tactics for balancing brand consistency with the need for breakthrough creativity. Whether you’re a marketer in a highly regulated industry or just want to hear what it’s like taking a heritage brand forward, this conversation will both give you insight and inspiration.Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/FqizjfWSSUs  📚 Chapters:(00:00:00) – Intro 🎙️(00:03:37) – Diana’s favorite challenger brands 🏆(00:07:19) – What Fintech CMOs think about 💭(00:09:05) - What Standard Bank Does 💵(00:11:00) - Diana’s POV on Incumbent vs Challenger 👊(00:15:35) – Storytelling and emotional resonance 💡(00:23:17) – Resonance vs Relevance 🤝(00:37:01) – Challenges to being brave 💪(00:44:37) – Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show:SpotifyTshepo JeansWhoopLiquid DeathScratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Diana Springer of Standard Bank in this episode.Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter. Find Eric on LinkedIn and tweet him @efulwiler. Find Diana on LinkedIn.Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.If you’re interested in learning more about marketing from successful CMOs, we compiled a list of the top 5 CMO podcasts to listen to in 2024; check it out here 🔗  https://www.wearerival.com/content-hub-articles/cmo-podcasts-you-cannot-afford-to-miss-in-2024

We’re back with Scratch! In this episode, we sit down with Abey Mokgwatsane, Chief Marketing Officer of Investec, an international bank and wealth manager that’s celebrating its 50th anniversary—and still thinking like a challenger. Abey shares how his team keeps the brand fresh by simplifying complexity, focusing on consistent storytelling, and staying true to the heritage that first propelled Investec into the private banking space. He also explains what it’s like to join a new industry as a “super sub” and how that outsider perspective drives authentic innovation.One of the big takeaways from this episode is Abey’s focus on “making the complex simple and the simple exciting.” Whether it’s building a brand around the iconic zebra or doubling down on Investec’s legendary service culture, Abey’s mindset proves that consistency doesn’t have to mean boring. We also dive into what it means to remain “freshly consistent” instead of “consistently fresh,” a concept that’s helped Investec maintain its challenger DNA over five decades of growth.Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/EGXZiOWQbsA           📚 Chapters:(00:00:00) – Intro 🎙️(00:03:30) – Abey’s favorite challenger brand 🏆(00:04:50) – Overview of Investec 💼(00:07:19) – Building a challenger ethos in finance 📈(00:14:30) – Making complexity simple and simplicity exciting 💡(00:21:30) – ‘Freshly Consistent’ vs. ‘Consistently Fresh’ 🔄(00:27:20) – The ‘Super Sub’ approach to marketing ⚽(00:46:18) – Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show:Four Seasons (service inspiration)Adam Morgan’s “Eating the Big Fish” (challenger brand mindset)KitKat (“fresh consistency” in action)Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities to help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and in this episode he’s joined by Abey Mokgwatsane, CMO of Investec.Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter. Find Eric on LinkedIn and tweet him @efulwiler. Find Abey on LinkedIn.Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.If you’re interested in learning more about marketing from successful CMOs, we compiled a list of the top 5 CMO podcasts to listen to in 2024; check it out here 🔗  https://www.wearerival.com/content-hub-articles/cmo-podcasts-you-cannot-afford-to-miss-in-2024

In this episode, we’re thrilled to sit down with Sadira Furlow, the Chief Marketing Officer of Tony's Chocolonely, an impact company on a mission to end exploitation in the cocoa industry. Tony's Chocolonely isn't just about making delicious chocolate—they're committed to making systemic change in the chocolate industry by producing ethically sourced chocolate and encouraging others to join their mission.In our conversation, Sadira dives deep into the reality of building a challenger brand that's scaling globally while staying true to its core mission. She shares insights on how Tony's embraces boldness and risk-taking to drive meaningful change, the importance of storytelling in conveying their mission, and how they navigate the challenges of growth without compromising their values. One of the key takeaways from this episode is Sadira's perspective on being unapologetically mission-driven and how that translates into every aspect of their business—from product design to marketing strategies.Another recurring theme is the significance of partnership and clarity when pushing boundaries, and how Tony's fosters a culture that isn't afraid to "call the lawyers" to make a statement. If you're interested in purpose-driven marketing or want to learn how to build a brand that genuinely challenges industry norms, then this episode is for you!Send us a screenshot of your review at media@wearerival.com 👀🍫Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/1zQgayBpb7I📚Chapters:(00:00:00) - Intro(00:07:30) - What is Tony’s Chocolonely?(00:10:43) - Why is Tony ‘lonely’? 🌍(00:19:11) - Perception vs. reality of a challenger brand 🔍(00:24:03) - Creating bold marketing campaigns 🎨(00:36:01) - Tony's as a real deal challenger 💪(00:39:15) - The 'call the lawyers' mindset ⚖️(00:49:29) - Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show:Favorite challenger brand: Duolingo Tony’s x Feastables Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Sadira Furlow of Tony’s Chocolonely in this episode.Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter. Find Eric on LinkedIn.Find Sadira on LinkedIn.Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.If you’re interested in learning more about marketing from successful CMOs, we compiled a list of the top 5 CMO podcasts to listen to in 2024; check it out here 🔗  https://www.wearerival.com/content-hub-articles/cmo-podcasts-you-cannot-afford-to-miss-in-2024

In this episode, we’re thrilled to sit down with Charl Bassil, the Chief Brand Officer of the BBC, a globally renowned public service broadcaster (yes, the BBC) committed to enriching people's lives through programs and services that inform, educate, and entertain. In our conversation, Charl dives deep into the art of nurturing brands for the long term, emphasizing the responsibility of brand custodians to preserve and grow what has been created. He shares insights on how marketers can think like farmers, cultivating assets that provide value over time rather than hunters seeking short-term gains. We also explore the importance of balancing risks and opportunities in marketing plans and uncover the secrets to gaining more buy-in within an organization.One of the key takeaways from this episode is Charl's perspective on how brands can make people feel like they belong, turning the "others" into part of a community. We also discuss the evolving role of CMOs, the significance of maintaining authenticity in brand messaging, and how to remain relevant in a rapidly changing media landscape. If you're interested in long-term brand growth and making a meaningful impact, then this episode is for you!Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/9B9DrYcWnaU          📚 Chapters:(00:00:00) - Intro 🎙️(00:03:11) - Charl’s favorite challenger brand 🥨(00:08:10) - The role of brand custodians 🌱(00:12:43) - Nurturing brand for the long term ⏳(00:29:43) - How to get more buy-in for brand ⚖️(00:34:00) - Making people feel like they belong 🤝(00:41:00) - Why the BBC is a challenger brand 👊(00:46:35) - Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show:Favorite challenger brand - Olly’s Episode with Boxraw  Absolut VodkaScratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Charl Bassil of the BBC in this episode.Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter. Find Eric on LinkedIn and tweet him @efulwiler. Find Charl on LinkedIn.Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.If you’re interested in learning more about marketing from successful CMOs, we compiled a list of the top 5 CMO podcasts to listen to in 2024; check it out here 🔗  https://www.wearerival.com/content-hub-articles/cmo-podcasts-you-cannot-afford-to-miss-in-2024

We’re thrilled to sit down with Michael Katz, the CEO of mParticle in this episode. mParticle is a leading customer data platform that helps businesses unify and activate their customer data to drive better marketing outcomes. They specialize in integrating various data sources to create unified customer profiles, enabling companies to deliver personalized and efficient marketing campaigns.In our conversation, Michael dives deep into the evolution of customer data management, sharing insights on how the shift from integration to intelligence is shaping the future of marketing. One of the key takeaways is his emphasis on the importance of building a strong first-party data foundation, which is crucial for businesses navigating the challenges of data privacy and third-party cookie deprecation. Another recurring theme is the collaboration between marketing and IT teams, highlighting the concept that "data is a team sport." MK discusses how aligning these departments can lead to better execution and more effective use of customer data. If you're a marketer looking to stay ahead in the rapidly changing landscape of customer data and marketing technology, then this episode is for you!Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/ECTN_VC5760 📚 Chapters:(00:00:00) - Intro 🎙️(00:02:28) - MK's favourite challenger brand(00:03:50) - What mParticle does 🚀(00:10:30) - The shift from integration to intelligence 🧠(00:21:50) - Navigating data privacy and signal loss 🔒(00:29:49) - Leveraging AI with transparency 🤖(00:39:31) - Collaboration between marketing and IT 🤝(00:39:55) - Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show:InterclickApple's iOS ChangesGoogle's Third-Party Cookie DeprecationScratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Michael Katz of mParticle in this episodeFind Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter. Find Eric on LinkedInFind Michael on LinkedIn.Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.If you’re interested in learning more about marketing from successful CMOs, we compiled a list of the top 5 CMO podcasts to listen to in 2024; check it out here 🔗  https://www.wearerival.com/content-hub-articles/cmo-podcasts-you-cannot-afford-to-miss-in-2024