The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast

This week, I welcome new friend Timmy Joe Gibson for a deep dive into our parallel journeys: from passionate Christian ministry to atheism. Both former pastors, we share our experiences in faith: me as a Bible college teacher and PhD scholar who spent over 20 years in ministry across the US and UK, and Timmy as a charismatic pastor who grew his church from 10 people in his living room to 300 members. We discuss our theological education at institutions like Rhema Bible Training Center and Western Seminary, our involvement in word-of-faith movements and dominion theology, and the gradual "death by a thousand cuts" that led us to question--and ultimately abandon-- everything we once believed, preached, and taught to so many others so passionately. Our conversation explores how deeper biblical scholarship paradoxically led us away from fundamentalism, as we touch on topics like the authorship of the Gospels, the problem of slavery in scripture, conspiracy theory mindsets in Christianity, and the Satanic Panic of the 1980s. Both of us reflect on what we've salvaged from our past. My public speaking skills now serve me as a teacher and builder, while Timmy has built a successful wedding officiant business in Kansas City. We also candidly discuss how we're now happier as atheists than we ever were as believers, focusing our energy on helping others navigate the deconstruction process, rather than engaging in angry debates with those still in the faith. Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email me: dismantlingdoctrine@gmail.com

This is a two-part podcast conversation between me and Nick from The Autistic Pod. To hear Part 2--where he interviews me--you'll have to head over to his platform to catch it. Our discussion begins by discussing Nick's experiences with ADHD and autism, exploring how neurodivergence affects relationships, communication, and daily life. Nick shares his journey of self-diagnosis at age 42 after watching "Love on the Spectrum," and discusses the concept of "masking" - the exhausting practice of hiding one's authentic self to fit neurotypical expectations. He opens up about experiencing severe depression, the importance of honesty as a core value, and how his racing thoughts (three times more than neurotypical people) create both challenges and unique perspectives. The conversation then delves into Nick's "Nine Rules for Life," which include principles like personal growth, accountability, avoiding toxic people, and living authentically. Both of us share relatable experiences about relationships, with Nick discussing his fiancée's C-PTSD and how they navigate their neurodivergent partnership, while I reflect on my past relationship challenges with someone likely on the spectrum. Nick and I bonded over shared values around honesty, heavy metal music, and the struggle to balance directness with social expectations. Nick helps us to emphasize the importance of understanding neurodivergence, respecting different ways of processing the world, and finding communities that accept you for who you truly are. Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email me: dismantlingdoctrine@gmail.com

I had a great opportunity to interview Brian and Troy from the now-retired "I Was a Teenage Fundamentalist" podcast. They discuss why they ended their successful podcast after five years, with both hosts explaining they felt exhausted and had covered what they wanted to say about leaving evangelical Christianity. The conversation explores their personal journeys of deconstructing their faith, including Troy's pivotal moment during a Buddhist meditation retreat and Brian's gradual realization over many years that the beliefs no longer held up. Our discussion delves into several major topics including the Hillsong Church scandals in Australia, particularly Brian Houston's cover-up of his father Frank Houston's pedophilia, and the broader issues of abuse within patriarchal religious structures. They also discuss their eye-opening episode about Keith Green and Last Days Ministries, which revealed cult-like practices that shattered their last remaining positive associations with evangelical Christianity. The conversation concludes with reflections on rebuilding life after leaving religion, emphasizing the importance of finding new communities, being patient with yourself, and accepting that life after faith won't have the same certainty that religion once provided. Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email me: dismantlingdoctrine@gmail.com

For the inaugural episode of 2026, I reached out to returning guest Katherine Stewart, author of a 2025 book entitled Money, Lies, and God: Inside the Movement to Destroy American Democracy. Stewart, an investigative journalist who has tracked the religious right for 17 years, argues that Christian nationalism has evolved from a fringe movement into a powerful political force waging war against democracy itself—targeting rational governance, the rule of law, and constitutional checks and balances. She traces its rise through decades of infrastructure building, massive dark money from billionaires, and the growing influence of charismatic Christianity and New Apostolic Reformation theology, which has enabled Trump's unprecedented corruption and authoritarian actions. In her book, Stewart explores critical dimensions of this threat, including the split within the Catholic Church between progressive voices and ultra-wealthy conservatives funding hard-right messaging, groups like Moms for Liberty working to dismantle public education, and the disturbing connections between current Christian nationalist rhetoric and pro-slavery theology. She warns that while the movement claims to champion religious liberty, it actually seeks privilege for itself and suppression of dissent, threatening not only American democracy but exporting illiberalism globally. You can reach Katherine Stewart through her website at katherinestewart.me or via email at goodnewskatherine@gmail.com. Find a copy of Money, Lies, and God at this link on Amazon! Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email me: dismantlingdoctrine@gmail.com

The final episode of The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast features a conversation with Brandt Burleson out of Houston, TX, who tells a wild story...as an employee of the Israeli Consulate in Houston a few years ago, Brandt was tasked with being an "interfaith liaison" between the State of Israel and Christians. Sounds innocuous enough, doesn't it? But what Brandt discovered as he settled into the job was that essentially, the Consulate was running what amounted to a sophisticated psy-op targeting Christians of all theological stripes and traditions. By weaponizing both Christian Zionism and Christian nationalism, appealing to the deeply baked-in nature of both within Christianity, the sophisticated operation began...and I'll let Brandt tell you the rest of the story in this episode! Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email me: dismantlingdoctrine@gmail.com

If you've been the victim of spiritual abuse--experienced in a wide variety of forms--it is imperative for you to gain the language, or vocabulary, to be able to describe what exactly happened to you. Moreover, education is one of the most critical aspects on the recovery journey. Author Katherine Spearing, with her new book A Thousand Tiny Paper Cuts: The Subtle, Insidious Nature of Spiritual Abuse and Life on the Other Side, empowers those of us who have suffered at the hands of controlling, patriarchal religious figures. Katherine illuminates the path to spiritual healing and wholeness for those who are trying to reclaim their lives from the effects of coercive control--whatever it may have looked like. In addition to defining such terms as "spiritual abuse" and "spiritual gaslighting," Katherine provides hope, help, and healing in terms of recovering their life--on the other side of controlling, and often abusive, forms of religion. Find out more on Katherine's website here! Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community Email me: dismantlingdoctrine@gmail.com

This week I'm joined by my friend Rachel Bernstein, host of the IndoctriNation Podcast and author of a brand-new book entitled Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation. Rachel's book, along with a companion notebook for journaling and self-reflection, are super helpful resources for those of us who come out of high-control religious groups, cults, or any sort of manipulative relationship. Choosing to leave these groups or destructive narcissistic relationships, as she reminds us, is one of the most difficult choices an individual can make--and it is far from easy. Or it may be that the person didn't choose to leave, but was kicked out, excommunicated, or rejected. Either way, navigating life moving forward can prove to be almost impossibly difficult. Restart and Restore is not just a book to read and put down later--it is a guided healing journal that offers a clear framework both for self-discovery and recovery. This conversation provides an informative guide for those of us rebuilding our lives after walking away from it all. Restart and Restore: A Journal For Survivors of Manipulation available on Amazon! Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email me: dismantlingdoctrine@gmail.com

I'm joined this week by my very good friend Stacie Rae from Canada. Herself a survivor of a narcissistic relationship, Stacie now empowers those who are seeking not only to identify what narcissism is, but how to escape and rebuild their lives after leaving it all behind. Stacie works as a mentor and life coach providing, in her words, courses and recovery options that serve as an "alchemy of mind, body, spirit, and emotions." Recovery and empowerment after suffering through a narcissistic relationship is a holistic thing--it can't be done in isolation, and at time, we need the help of others to work through our issues and traumas. In addition to discussing narcissism, we also delve into the question: "Is the God of the Bible a narcissist?" This is a tough question, but definitely worth asking--especially if your religious faith was defined in large part by serving an abusive deity. We also delve into trauma bonding and healing from the abuses suffered while in those relationships. Get more information on the House of Rae Academy at this link! Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email: dismantlingdoctrine@gmail.com

This week's conversation features Cynane Shay, who goes by the name "Taking Off The Tinfoil Hat" on social media. She's an expert on the subject of Christianity and conspiracy theories, which is incredibly timely given the current situation regarding religion and politics in today's world. You may be familiar with evangelicals who embrace such conspiracy theories as QAnon or PizzaGate, but it turns out that this is but the tip of the iceberg. As you'll discover, not only are conspiracy theories baked into so much of Christianity, it's a feature--not a bug--of the religion itself. Conspiracy theory thinking is nothing new--it goes back millennia, and it turns out to be a human condition. But in today's evangelicalism, with its rabid embrace of Trump and Christian nationalism, conspiracy theories are being weaponized to the detriment of democracy. Contact Cynane through her website Taking Off The Tinfoil Hat! Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email: dismantlingdoctrine@gmail.com

This is a great conversation featuring the co-authors of the soon-to-be-released excellent book, The Myth of Good Christian Parenting: How False Promises Betrayed a Generation of Evangelical Families by Marissa Franks Burt and Kelsey Kramer McGinnis. These dedicated authors now conclusively demonstrate that the concept of "good Christian parenting" is indeed a myth. Worse than that, there are now a few generations of children raised in such contexts who serve as valuable case studies. They demonstrate conclusively that the fruit of much of what passed for good Christian parenting embodied many false promises. What is the legacy of these myths that so many parents followed religiously? The fruit is unfortunate indeed: generations of children, now adults, who are estranged from their Christian parents; those who have walked away from the church and their faith as a result of their abusive and traumatic upbringing; and parents who now deeply regret following the advice of "experts" who built entire empires profiting from dispensing seemingly wise biblical advice on both parenting and child-rearing. Order your copy of The Myth of Good Christian Parenting here on Amazon! Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email me: dismantlingdoctrine@gmail.com

This week's episode features a wide-ranging and informative conversation with my good friend and returning guest, David Johnson, host of the Skeptics and Seekers Podcast. I've done a number of shows with David, both here and on his show, and we've teamed up a lot this year for his "Summer of Morality" series he's been doing on his platform. Speaking with David about the topics of how God commanded the Israelites to commit genocide in the Old Testament, as well as the Bible's condoning of slavery, led me to invite him back to break these issues down in further details. For those who are contemplating deconstructing their Christian faith, or for those of us who have walked away but still have issues to process through from our past life of belief, this conversation will prove to be both thought-provoking as well as beneficial. If you want to hear more of my work with David, head over to his platform on YouTube or Square Space to catch our conversations. Help Support the Show on Patreon: The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Email: dismantlingdoctrine@gmail.com

This week's episode features new friend Mikee Bridges, a former Christian rocker/grunge/punk musician who is also known for putting on the Tom Fest, an alternative Christian music festival that ran for 14 years. He also ran a Christian rock venue in Portland, OR, for many years. After getting out of the Christian music game, Mikee went on to help found GameChurch, which attempted to reach gamers at such events as ComicCon and other venues. But eventually, despite his decades of missional ministry efforts, as Mikee describes it, "the sh*t hit the fan"--and he began to deconstruct his entire life's belief system of evangelical Christianity. Today, he's attempting to put the pieces all back together after losing Jesus, "my best friend," as he sees it now. If you're interested in attending the Tom Convention, this is an alternative music convention coming up next month in Southern California. Click the link below to find out more information about tickets and the venue: Tom Convention dates, details and pricing Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email me: dismantlingdoctrine@gmail.com

In honor of my presentation at the Houston Oasis gathering on Sunday, the 24th of August, we are running a special promo sale that day on my book, Not So Shiny Not So Happy People: How Bill Gothard, Church, and Family Taught Me Christianity Doesn't Work. This weekend you'll be able to purchase the book on Amazon.com for just 99 cents! Also, if you're able, log into the Houston Oasis live Facebook feed beginning at 10am CST to catch my presentation on religious trauma syndrome. If you can't make it to the live feed, don't worry--it will be recorded and posted up to their channel later on, so you can still catch my talk on RTS. Find Not So Shiny Not So Happy People at this link on Amazon! Houston Oasis Facebook Feed link

Once again I'm joined by my good friend Frank Schaeffer to discuss all things politics, religion, Christian nationalism, and the effect Trump is having on both the evangelical church and America overall. As a passionate observer of what's going on in terms of current events--not just in America but indeed the world--Frank always has a unique take on what's happening now, and the long-term effect it may have on both. Frank, and his famous father Francis Schaeffer, helped kickstart the evangelical anti-abortion movement in the USA in the early 1970s. Ironically, although he couldn't have known it at the time, this was one of the foundational pieces in not only what would become the Christian Right, but also Trump's MAGA cult base. Frank is still making up for that decades later...and I think you'll enjoy this informative and educational conversation! Help support the work of The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast by joining Patreon! Send me an email: dismantlingdoctrine@gmail.com

Recently I reconnected with returning guest Stephen Mather, former Jehovah's Witness and co-host of the now-defunct Cult Hackers Podcast. As an organizational psychologist, and former JW, Stephen is uniquely positioned to inform listeners on the eight markers of cults identified by Dr Robert Jay Lifton in his book Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism. Lifton's eight markers are not only time-honored in describing the various tactics used by cults and high-control groups, in addition he provides a helpful extra bit: the psychological effects of each one on the individual or follower. Thus, Stephen and I go through all eight in turn, discuss how they were applied in our various religious experiences, and talk about the psychological effects also. Concluding the episode, we focus on recovery after leaving religion or a high-control group, offering up helpful tips and experience gained not only in our own lives, but that of others from whom we've found helpful advice. Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Follow me on Threads @dismantlingdoctrinepodcast

I finally caught up with Lucas Wilson after months of emailing each other to set up this interview. And am I ever glad that I did! We had a fantastic conversation that I truly believe you will enjoy and learn a lot from. Lucas--or Luke--originally hails from Toronto, Canada, and as a young man ended up attending Jerry Falwell's Liberty University, with a view to engaging in so-called "conversion therapy." This is the controversial notion that somehow, if you're gay or have same-sex attraction on any level, God wants to "make you straight." Not only that, but by doing conversion therapy, it will definitely happen. Aided by dubious psychological and biblical backing, conversion therapy can be incredibly damaging to those in the LGBTQ+ community, but who also happen to be Christians. This misguided theory oftentimes does a huge amount of damage psychologically and in other ways. Find Luke's book here: Shame-Sex Attraction: Survivor's Stories of Conversion Therapy Help support the show by joining The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email: dismantlingdoctrine@gmail.com

Recently, a listener asked me if I would explore the potential connections between Vance Boelter--the gunman who recently killed 2 Democratic lawmakers in Minnesota, and wounded 2 more--and the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR). The question posed was this: "Was Vance Boelter radicalized by his experiences within the NAR?" Beyond that, how do we know that Boelter was in fact a part of this increasingly radical movement that has taken the Christian Right by storm since the first Trump era? And did that association with the NAR's increasingly violent and incendiary rhetoric lead him to go on his rampage that resulted in the deaths of two people, and the severe wounding of two others? In this deep dive episode, I investigate the connections not only between Boelter and the NAR, but also to the tragic and violent history of the violence committed by radical Christian anti-abortion advocates. I'll also demonstrate just how extreme and violent the language being used by leading NAR figures is becoming, and how that all may have contributed to Boelter doing what he did. Join The Dismantling Doctrine Patreon Community! Follow me on Threads @dismantlingdoctrinepodcast Email: dismantlingdoctrine@gmail.com

Although Chris Shelton and I just did an episode on Project Esther recently, there were a lot of details that we didn't have time to dive into. As the story develops, and more information comes out, there have been some truly concerning developments that have taken place. Thus, in this special episode, I'm bringing you all the details behind Project Esther. This is, of course, the brainchild of The Heritage Foundation, authors of Project 2025. If you've noticed the trend on both social and mainstream media of labeling anyone "antisemitic" for speaking out against Israel's actions in Gaza, or taking part in a demonstration or protest, then this is the fruit of Project Esther. Trump's ongoing war against Harvard is part and parcel of it also. As we'll see, Trump has already enacted about one-half of the policy recommendations as laid out in Project Esther, a draconian set of actions that is designed to tamp down on--or obliterate entirely--our constitutional rights, such as: freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, and the right to due process. Let me know your thoughts, comments, or questions on this episode by emailing me: dismantlingdoctrine@gmail.com. Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Follow me on Threads @dismantlingdoctrinepodcast

In this special bonus episode, former Scientologist Chris Shelton and I take a deep dive into a controversial new development in Trumpworld: Project Esther. This story originally broke a few weeks ago in The New York Times, and has now been picked up in other media outlets. The brainchild of The Heritage Foundation, authors of Project 2025 and major policy advisors to Trump, Project Esther is a policy paper ostensibly designed to crack down on antisemitism in the United States. Timed to coincide with the one-year anniversary of the Hamas attack on Israel, Project Esther is in reality a bait-and-switch operation designed to eliminate basic rights such as free speech, freedom of assembly, due process for foreign students targeted for deportation, and more. We're also seeing the potential of cutting off federal funds to universities like Harvard for their "handling of antisemitism" as well as their tolerance of pro-Palestine demonstrations on campus. The truly frightening aspect of this draconian crackdown is that it's already in the works--approximately half of its policy recommendations have been enacted by Trump. Join The Dismantling Doctrine Patreon Community! Follow me on Threads @dismantlingdoctrine

This week's episode features an insightful conversation with Regina Cates, author of the book The Real Conversation Jesus Wants Us To Have: A Call To Bravery, Peace, and Love. At first, when I heard the title of the book, I was understandably sceptical. I figured Regina was just another progressive Christian trying to rehabilitate the church, the gospels, and the "true" message of Jesus. But that's not what her book is about, and neither is that what this conversation is about. Regina is an amazing woman with a powerful story to tell of her own Christian upbringing, deconstructing at an early age, and questioning everything she was taught by the church. That led to inevitable conflict from both parents and church authorities...and now, here she is, decades later, with a powerful message to proclaim. Find a copy of Regina's book here on Amazon! Join The Dismantling Doctrine Patreon Community! Follow me on Threads @dismantlingdoctrine