Real MD

TW Jones is a Pediatric Infectious Diseases attending at the U of U. He was recommended to be guest on this episode so I really didn’t know what to expect. Which makes the happenstance of hearing his journey into medicine all the more powerful. To anyone who has been told that you aren’t cut out to do something, the pre-med advisor who discourages you to apply, a family member tells you they don’t think you have what it takes. For those who have been stopped along the way, this episode is for you. I am not saying it will always work out as you want, but I am saying believing in yourself and what you want to do above what other people think you can do, is a powerful state to be in, one that will help you find a meaningful career. 

The Tribal Rural and Underserved or TRU program was created to help students see that value of being immersed in the tribal and rural space both from a standpoint of future physicians who will practice there, but also seeing a different view of what is possible in medicine regardless of where you practice. In this episode, I interview third year medical student Abel Chavez who grew up in a rural community and TRU program director David Sandweiss who trained in tribal and rural areas. What I immediately noticed is that the TRU program teaches you to meet the patient literally where they are, to be a part of the community, and that small changes can make an impact. All three of these things can be scaled up in non-rural settings too. Most of all, I learned from this conversation that there are opportunities in medicine we could be more open to and that we can carve out a unique space to practice medicine in more ways than we think we can. 

In Healthcare, most of the time, you don’t get to choose your team, the patients do. This means the skillset to turn a group of people who have to work together into a high functioning team fundamentally rests on each of us. In this episode, I had the privilege to talk several faculty members who run the Interprofessional Education Program at the U. First off, I want to say the work they are doing is critical to patient care and also job satisfaction of healthcare providers. Think about it, the thing that makes or breaks each day is the quality of interpersonal interactions we are having. What struck me most throughout the conversation was how curiosity can build trust and validate the roles each person has on the healthcare team. This conversation is also a reminder that proving yourself on a team isn’t done by making decisions without input or invalidating others and the knowledge they can contribute. So for all of you who are in training, play in the sandbox of inter-professional education when the stakes are low, become master team builders who can collaborate with the widest range of personalities and skillsets possible, this is where the magic happens for the patient and your career. 

Jordan Broadway (Psychiatrist) helped build RealMD from the early days and we continue to collaborate. In this episode she talks about her career transitions from medical school to residency to being an attending and how at each stage she has leaned into the dark to figure out her next step. I love how she has crafted a great career relying on her innate skills to build a strong community and make deep connections. 

The daunting task of finding and doing meaningful work is understandably hard to navigate. Often, we impose our own limits about what is possible in a career and what doors are open or closed. As a result, the vision of life’s work can be watered down or abandoned. While there are always realities and challenges, what excites me most about this conversation is how Dr. Richard Ingebretsen (Internal and Emergency Medicine) and second year medical student Emma Lester share their amazing story about the origin of wilderness medicine at the University of Utah and the summer elective they hold in the French Alps. The stories and passion shared about training all people including future physicians to be more prepared for the outdoors, to overcome nature deficit disorder, and to make preventative measures in the back country are inspiring to say the least. It is amazing how a vision comes to fruition. Bottom line: when you are doing something bigger than yourself and you don’t care about money or credit, amazing things happen. 

Caroline and Ivan are second year medical students at Eastern Virginia Medical School and St. Louis University School of Medicine. On today's episode, guest hosts Elise and Poi talk about their unexpected journey to medicine. Getting rejected from medical school forced them to navigate through self-doubt and reflection. They share with us their tips on how to move through rejection and leave the other side with a greater sense of self. We'll discover how they carried themselves through rejection and found their place in medicine.

Sarah Petelinsek is a third year medical student who has made it a point to not define herself with the medical student label alone. In this episode we talk about asking for help, experiences that clarify values, maintaining beliefs during hard times, and redrawing the boxes we have to check during medical school. This point of redrawing boxes, struck me as a reminder we all need. There will always be boxes to check but can we redefine and redraw them? Is it possible to keep our beliefs alive and hold onto the things that matter most? Sarah has a way of being both optimistic and realistic that is special and resonates. As we go through the motions, the operational present, maybe we can redefine it, even on a small scale and find more meaning in the day to day process of becoming a physician. 

We have a special episode of the RealMD podcast based on an event we do for our incoming students, significant others, family, friends, parents, and siblings called Support Your Support Night (SYSN). I am joined by Keena Memmott who plans this event which happens the night before the White Coat Ceremony when families and friends are in town. It is a special night where we get to acknowledge the people who will be supporting their medical student on their journey. In this context, we also wanted to bring voices who are a little further ahead supporting their people. In this episode we are joined by physicians, Robert and Tiffany Glasgow. Dr. Robert Glasgow is a general surgeon and Dr. Tiffany Glasgow is a pediatric hospitalist. They have two kids who are physicians in training. We are also joined by two medical students. Third year, Olivia Nielsen, and a second year, Emily Zang. I hope this episode offers helpful perspectives about supporting each other in medicine. 

Our Real MD students recently held their annual fall storytelling event, which always takes place in my backyard. The weather was perfect. This is a live recording, so you’ll hear the shuffling of storytellers, the audience, and even the crickets singing. The theme this year was self-discovery, and it was a magical night.Storytelling helps us build community and resilience as we share open, honest experiences around this theme. Before we dive into the backyard stories, I want to share one of my own. It is a story I told this summer in DC to a group of MS2s from across the country at the RISE conference. It is about storytelling and how it began here, but also about discovering who you are and holding on to that truth.

Greg Memmott (Pediatrics) is a second year medical student who is already matched into pediatrics as part of an early match program called EPAC at the University of Utah. Greg and I have worked together in RealMD over the past two years and presented at conferences about how to start leadership programs during medical school. Like everyone else, Greg’s journey includes unexpected twists and turns. Holding onto values instead of specific titles outcomes or activities is a central lesson from our conversation. Wisdom like this comes out of his struggles with health and specialty exploration process. Often, we can get defensive in the fight with external forces, life circumstance, and forget to listen to the inner voice. Asking yourself questions like, What is it that I really want out of my life and career?, Do my pursuits match my values? After talking with Greg, I am reminded that it is helpful to frame identity formation into a process of letting go of rigidly held professional expectations, being more open to the journey, and connected to internal values. 

In this episode, I interview second year medical student, Emily Hill, who cohosts her own podcast called Women in White Coats. What started out as a means to explore medicine as a premed has turned into interviews with over 30 women who are physicians who have taken all sorts of journeys, navigated uncertainty, navigated tragedy, dealt with imposter syndrome. and found passion in their careers. The lessons learned are really powerful reminders that we are more resilient than we think and that the end goal is not to be a physician, but to find passion both within and outside of medicine and that will carry us through. For those interested in hearing more of these wonderful impactful stories, make sure to follow Women in White Coats. 

The poet Rilke has a well known poem about living the questions during life’s journey rather than seeking or expecting the answers to unfold in a predetermined way. A fundamental aspect of navigating a career in medicine. In this episode I am joined by guest host and second year medical student Palepoi (Poi) Gilmore. We had the chance to interview Dr. Jake Robson, a Gastroenterologist at Primary Children's hospital. In addition to being a course director of doctoring, he is also the faculty director of Echo Canyon House which is also my house. In this conversation, we ask Dr. Robson about the House model and his role. Most importantly we talk about the idea of living the questions on the road to becoming a physician. We talk about grit in the face of failure and navigating uncertainty. We talk about building community and having mentors who are willing to ask powerful questions instead of telling us what they think we should do. This episode is strong reminder that we do not have to have the answers but need to have space during medical training to find and live the questions. 

In this episode the tables have turned and I had the privilege to be interviewed by second year students and RealMD facilitators, Elise Vandamme and Poi Gilmore. We talk about my journey into academic medicine and how RealMD and the RISE conference came to be. A central message about knowing yourself being the foundation of leadership development came through. I wasn’t expecting to see such a strong theme run throughout my non-linear career path. This episode serves as a reminder of the value of talking through your experiences and learning more about who you are with trusted colleagues. Knowing yourself will help you lead. 

Welcome to Season 6 of the RealMD Podcast! In this episode Tom & RealMD Podcast editor Cael Campbell discuss what's to come this season.

Recent grads, Trisha and Marina met at the University of Utah as undergrads and became fast friends during medical school. There is something to be said about finding just one person who is in the trenches of shared experiences and when the layers of life inevitably bring on challenges, that friendship provides much needed support and encouragement. I have enjoyed watching Trisha and Marina’s journey together always watching out for each other and leading together. Now that they have moved on to residency, we take a minute to reflect on their time together. All of this reminds me of a quote by Irish poet and essayist, David Whyte:"The ultimate touchstone of friendship is not improvement, neither of the other nor of the self: the ultimate touchstone is witness, the privilege of having been seen by someone and the equal privilege of being granted the sight of the essence of another, to have walked with them and to have believed in them, and sometimes just to have accompanied them for however brief a span, on a journey impossible to accomplish alone.”

The humble beginnings of RealMD began with our student leaders identifying speakers they felt could share their personal journeys into medicine authentically. Over the years, these sessions have covered a wide range of physician experiences. The talks are powerful and vulnerable. Students have told me countless times how impactful it is to hear from physicians in a space that makes them feel like they can overcome their own struggles, find their higher purpose in medicine, and not forget who they are in the process. In an effort to show and not just tell what these sessions are like, there is one speaker who has been with us from the very beginning, Dr. Dale Hull. He recently came back to talk to our students. His story encapsulates the RealMD message about life’s journey not going as planned and finding the resilience to overcome. Please go to a quiet place and listen to this phenomenal talk, “When Change Chooses You.”Dr. Dale Hull is a 1985 graduate of the University of Utah School of Medicine. This was followed by residency training in Ob-Gyn through the University of Utah. He was in private practice for ten years in the south part of the Salt Lake valley until his injury in 1999. He currently serves as the co-founder and executive director of Neuroworx, a non-profit therapy clinic for individuals with paralysis. Dr Hull has been active in the University of Utah School of Medicine Alumni Association serving as its president from 2014 to 2016. He was the School of Medicine commencement speaker for the class of 2019 and was honored as the Utah School of Medicine Distinguished Alumnus in 2022.

With Mother’s Day happening this month we wanted to do something special. In this episode, I am joined by guest host, Dr. Jenn Handrop. As a mother who just finished her doctorate, Jenn’s research hits very close to home. At our medical school we have more mothers and parents almost 30% compared to the national average of about 6%. Dr. Handrop takes a closer look at how mothers are navigating medical school, what the challenges are, what support looks like, and how we as a school (and medical schools in general) can do a better job supporting mothers. We are joined by three amazing medical student mothers, two second years and one third year. They are all in clinical training and fighting the good fight to have families and also pursue their dreams of becoming physicians. They also hold leadership positions in a group called WEWILL. I will let them introduce themselves. I want to thank this amazing group for taking the time to have this important conversation. The bottom line is we have work to do, we can do more to support mothers in medicine!

Hank Shipman is currently in his final year of physical medicine and rehabilitation residency. We started working together in RealMD when he was in medical school. I want to talk about two things in this episode. First, my core desire underneath everything I do is to serve as a witness. This happens in my work with students, with my team, and with the broader communities I get the privilege to work with. The simple act of witnessing the process of someone developing, growing in their life, their identity, finding purpose fills me with energy. It is my highest purpose. I also have been wanting to find a way to highlight the AAMC RISE conference. My dear colleague Shira Kaplan and I have been co-leading this leadership conference for almost 7 years. It’s been an amazing experience to work with her helping national cohorts of second and fourth year medical students develop meaning and purpose, self-awareness, and leadership skills in that order. It has been truly life changing. This episode features Hank delivering his first keynote speech to fourth year 2024 RISE attendees. Witnessing Hank tell his story is a highlight of my career. The fact that it happened at RISE and we could work together again was unforgettable. Side note, Hank references some slides during his speech, but I think the message gets through and is still worthwhile to share. Thank you Hank for telling your story!

In this episode, medical students, Payton Erickson and Brooke Austin talk about their leadership roles as House Representatives, what it is like building out a house community, and creating meaningful events. We also talk about what leadership opportunities are worthwhile and how making sure the things you spend your time on have direct connection to your purpose. This is an important habit to form now that will help you for the rest of your career.

Brooke Johnston is a pediatric palliative care physician. She also serves as a house director for little wild horse and a Faculty Co-Director of Coaching in PIF (Professional Identity Formation). Brooke also plays the banjo, writes songs and loves doing improv. In this episode, we reflect on her journey into academic medicine, living by her values, and her passion for helping people develop. For Brooke, her path started by literally building houses and she’s still doing the work of serving others and creating strong communities.