We Chat Divorce Podcast

Why is it so hard to leave a relationship that hurts you—and how can you begin preparing when fear and financial uncertainty keep you stuck? Before Dr. Nadine Macaluso returns to We Chat Divorce for a new conversation, we’re revisiting our interview from last year about trauma bonds, financial control, and rebuilding trust in yourself. A therapist, author of Run Like Hell, and former wife of “The Wolf of Wall Street,” Dr. Nadine brings both personal experience and professional insight to this conversation with Catherine Shanahan and Karen Chellew. Together, they explore how controlling relationships can affect your emotional well-being, your access to money, and your confidence in making decisions. In this episode, we discuss: What a trauma bond is and why alternating affection and cruelty can make leaving feel so difficult. How financial control can appear as caretaking, including encouragement to stop working or pressure to sign documents you don’t understand. Why gathering financial information can feel overwhelming—and why each step deserves recognition. How patterns of appeasing others can follow you into conversations with your divorce team. The connection between emotional support, financial preparation, and greater confidence. Rebuilding trust in yourself and finding people who understand what you’re experiencing. Whether you’re considering divorce or trying to understand your relationship, this conversation offers a place to begin. You don’t have to have every answer today, and you don’t have to navigate the uncertainty alone. Stay tuned for our upcoming conversation with Dr. Nadine. Free Listener Download Ready to make sense of what you've read? Download our free companion guide, You're Not Crazy: A Guide to Recognizing Trauma Bonds and Reclaiming Your Clarity — inspired by our conversation with Dr. Nadine Macaluso. Inside, you'll find the episode's key lessons, a grounding exercise straight from Dr. Nadine, and reflection prompts to help you apply it all to your own life. Explore divorce financial planning and free resources at ⁠My Divorce Solution⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When a business is part of a divorce, determining what it is worth is only the beginning. The company may also be a marital asset, a source of household income and the employer paying expenses for the family. Each of these roles can affect the financial outcome for both spouses. In this episode of We Chat Divorce, Karen Chellew and Catherine Shanahan explain why business decisions should never be made from a valuation number alone. They explore the questions that reveal what is actually included in a valuation—from intellectual property, real estate and goodwill to personal expenses paid through the company. Karen and Catherine also discuss why two qualified experts can reach very different conclusions. The difference may not be the math, but the assumptions behind it—including valuation dates, reasonable compensation, normalized expenses, growth projections and goodwill. Understanding those assumptions can help you ask focused questions and avoid unnecessary professional fees. You’ll also learn why cash flow matters when one spouse keeps the business, how personal expenses paid by the company affect post-divorce budgets and what to consider before accepting a multiyear buyout. Karen shares her own experience of remaining legally connected to a former spouse’s company—and the costly consequences of not being formally removed. In this episode: What may be missing from a business valuation How intellectual property, goodwill and real estate can affect value Why competing valuations may produce dramatically different numbers The role of personal expenses, add-backs and retained earnings How business cash flow can affect support and settlement payments Risks associated with business debt, ownership and officer designations Questions to ask before hiring a forensic accountant or valuation expert Why signed agreements must be fully implemented after divorce Download the Business Divorce Financial Clarity Checklist Organize what you know, identify what may be missing and prepare more focused questions for your financial and legal professionals. This practical checklist covers business assets, valuation assumptions, cash flow, personal expenses and the steps needed to protect your financial future. You do not need to understand every financial detail before asking for help. The MDS Financial Portrait™ brings documented assets, debts, income and expenses into one comprehensive financial picture—helping identify the questions that matter before life-changing decisions are made. Learn more at MyDivorceSolution.com Because when a business is involved, clarity means understanding not only what it is worth—but what your financial future depends on. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What happens when the life you planned suddenly falls apart—and you have to decide what comes next? Three years after her first appearance on We Chat Divorce, bestselling author, filmmaker, and creator Gabrielle Stone returns to share how heartbreak, solo travel, and honest self-reflection transformed her life. After discovering her husband’s affair and experiencing another devastating breakup shortly afterward, Gabrielle made a bold decision: she took the month-long European trip she had planned—alone. That experience became the foundation for her bestselling book, Eat, Pray, #FML, and a much larger journey toward healing, independence, and trusting herself again. Gabrielle opens up about the financial manipulation she experienced in her first marriage, why she became more involved in managing finances in her current marriage, and how she and her husband created clear protections for their blended family. She also shares how her women-only international trips are helping participants step outside their comfort zones, build meaningful friendships, and rediscover who they are beyond heartbreak, fear, or the roles they have held for years. In this episode: Rebuilding confidence after betrayal and divorce Recognizing financial control within a relationship Becoming an active participant in your financial life Having honest financial conversations with a partner Walking through fear instead of allowing it to make decisions Using travel and community to reconnect with yourself Viewing the end of a marriage as the beginning of something new If you are wondering who you are after divorce—or whether you can trust yourself to begin again—Gabrielle’s story is a powerful reminder that rebuilding happens one courageous choice at a time. Download A Brave Choice: A guide to starting over Ready to take the next brave step? Download The Brave Choice, a free companion to the episode featuring Gabrielle’s two-paths reflection, a “Small Brave Steps to Reclaim” checklist, the Know Your Numbers financial-clarity prompts, and a set of permissions to help you make the rest of your life the best of your life. Listen to Gabrielle’s previous We Chat Divorce episode: https://lnns.co/M9YsQI5dzPg Connect with Gabrielle:Instagram: @gabriellestoneTikTok: @gabrielle_stone To learn how the MDS Financial Portrait™ can help you understand your finances and prepare for informed negotiations, visit MyDivorceSolution.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Financial agreements are often viewed as a way for one person to protect their assets from the other. But a prenup, postnup or separation agreement can begin with a more constructive question: What are we trying to accomplish financially? In this episode of the We Chat Divorce Podcast’s Divorce Explored series, Karen Chellew and Catherine Shanahan challenge the traditional mindset surrounding financial agreements. Rather than focusing only on what happens if a marriage ends, couples can use these conversations to decide what they want to build together, what should remain separate and how both people will stay financially informed. The conversation is especially important when one spouse leaves the workforce, contributes to the growth of a business, manages the household or depends on the other spouse’s income. Catherine expands on insights she recently shared in a USA TODAY article about former stay-at-home wives who became financially vulnerable when their marriages ended. Karen and Catherine discuss: How prenups can support transparency instead of signaling distrust Questions couples should ask before deciding what remains separate or marital The long-term financial impact of leaving the workforce to care for a family When a postnuptial agreement may help an already-married couple create a new financial understanding The difference between managing the family’s money and using money as a form of control Why financial disclosure should continue as careers, businesses, assets and family responsibilities change How to begin a difficult financial conversation one manageable question at a time Download The Know Before You Sign GUIDE Ready to put these ideas into practice? Download the free Listener Companion to this episode, a printable guide featuring the three agreements and when each one applies, a disclosure checklist to complete before any terms are negotiated, a side-by-side look at managing money versus controlling money, an annual financial review checklist and four reflection prompts to start the conversation at home. You do not have to know whether your marriage will continue or end before you start understanding your finances. Know what you have. Know what you owe. Understand what you are agreeing to. Financial clarity should not begin when you are getting divorced. It should be part of the financial relationship all along. My Divorce Solution does not draft prenuptial, postnuptial or separation agreements. These are legal documents with requirements that vary by state. MDS helps individuals and couples understand the financial information behind those decisions so they can move forward with greater clarity, confidence and control. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The divorce may be final—or still unfolding—but your mind and body may remain stuck in survival mode. In this episode of We Chat Divorce, Karen Chellew and Catherine Shanahan welcome back Jackie Miller, certified trauma-informed coach, author, speaker, and host of Out of Crazy Town: Your Guide to Divorcing a Narcissist. Jackie shares insights from her new book, Winning: Rewiring Your Brain and Your Life After Toxic Love, explaining why people leaving toxic or high-conflict relationships often continue to experience fear, rumination, and emotional overwhelm. She also explores how these patterns can affect financial decisions during divorce and make it harder to move forward. The conversation examines the three powerful hooks that can keep someone tethered to an unhealthy relationship: the need for justice, the need for closure, and the need to prove yourself. Jackie shares her own experience spending significant time and money searching for hidden assets—and the important lesson she learned about balancing the pursuit of answers with the cost of remaining emotionally and financially stuck. You’ll also learn practical ways to interrupt the cycle, including creating a “rescue thought,” practicing future orientation, and using Jackie’s WIN Method: Witness what is happening. Interrupt the spiral. Insert a new script. Jackie explains why writing down your values and creating a clear vision for your future can become your North Star throughout divorce. Karen and Catherine connect this work to financial clarity: when you understand the known facts, you can identify which unknowns truly matter and make more strategic decisions about where to spend your time, energy, and money. In this episode: Why your brain may remain in survival mode after a toxic relationship How rumination can interfere with divorce and financial decisions The connection between emotional recovery and financial recovery Why the pursuit of justice or closure can prolong conflict How “future orientation” can help you move forward The difference between simple tools and easy work How financial clarity supports confident decision-making Why your most painful experiences can eventually become wisdom Financial clarity gives you the facts. A healthier mindset gives you the ability to act on them. Together, they create the foundation for rebuilding your life. Download The Rewiring Toolkit Ready to put these ideas into practice? Download The Rewiring Toolkit, a free companion to the episode featuring a guided rescue-thought exercise, the Three Hooks Self-Check, Jackie’s WIN Method and a daily future-orientation checklist. Learn more about Jackie Miller: Podcast: Out of Crazy Town Website: JackieMillerCoaching.com Instagram and YouTube: @OutofCrazyTown Book: Winning: Rewiring Your Brain and Your Life After Toxic Love, available on Amazon If you are considering divorce, currently navigating the process, or rebuilding afterward, visit MyDivorceSolution.com to learn how verified financial information can help you move forward with greater clarity and confidence. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices