Claim OwnershipOPEN GRAVES
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© Vesta Vaingloria & Heather Noel
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Open your graves to us. As self-identified adult goths, Vesta and Heather dig into the lives of adult goths and goth-adjacent friends. We get into the psychological and sociological experience of living in this subculture when it’s not a phase, mom (but on that note, tell me about your mother). You will not find music reviews or makeup tutorials here, but music, aesthetics, and club gossip will inevitably bleed into the conversation. Let us dig up the deeply human remains: Religion. Sex stuff. Gatekeeping. Substance abuse. Family. Being in the same clubs with all of your exes until you die.
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We are joined by an iconic duo, Mimi Sosa-Delcampo and Michelle Morales to focus on a topic that we have deftly avoided leaning too hard into: the role of fashion in the goth identity. We come at it from an angle that feels meaningful, questioning whether or not the subject of fashion is shallow or not, and what it means that something that can be construed this way also feels important and empowering. We explore how rebellion both is and is not relevant, whether competition is a thing or not, whose gaze matters, how gender expression shows up, how age affects our relationships to appearance, and appropriation both of and within our scene. All this and Mimi’s cool shoes.
You’re in for a twofer! We are late to the publishing game of talking about Cruel World, so this is a download about Kite, Chelsea Wolf, Actors, Mareaux, Clan of Xymox, of course Nick Cave, the divisive topic of Garbage vs. Devo, the infamous wine-bra, and then some embarrassing feeling about Ministry. Apologies in advance that we do talk about the weather and food reviews, because unfortunately we are adults and as far as festivals go, Cruel World is a festival for adults. In the second half, we get into the sensitive topic of friendships, both inside and outside of the goth community, and how it feels and functions when friendships change or come to an end, and how this feels both similar and different from romantic relationships. Shoutout to Jack & Darrick for being excellent fake festival boyfriends, as well as to the Ziplock company for enabling Heather to become a wine mule (see the @open.graves.podcast for details).
Well, Open Graves is now a pop-psychology podcast. We revisit a topic from one of our earliest episodes: dating in the goth community, and how we handle it when it falls apart. This iteration is less about the goth community specifically, and more about the experience of being a person in community in general, attachment styles, family histories, feminist shame, and then the key words: abandonment wounds. Does healing require compartmentalization and avoidance, and what if we are unwilling or unable to take this route? What if we just want to pet all the feral cats? Jesus, growth is exhausting.
To commemorate Obelisk’s two year anniversary in March, we have assembled the team to download about the journey from day one to year two, which began with a power outage! Now that the infamous back room is opened, our little event seems suddenly to have sprung from a makeshift bar party to an actual club night, dancing on its own two fishnetted legs. We express some sappy gratitude toward each other and to our patrons and staff, and for the opportunity to do something that despite its darkness, has never and will never take itself too seriously. Next event: May 8th, Night of the Witch!
We are joined by the enthusiastic, self-described late-blooming goth Arkonn, who is totally not going through a midlife crisis. We learn about his not-goth partner of 21 years (100 years in gay time), the dichotomy of his sensible daywalking life, complex family dynamics and trauma, and how growing up Catholic and gay is essentially a recipe for goth. Find out how he rediscovered his long lost goth identity (with the help of Open Graves and Obelisk!), what our sexual totems are, what Arkonn has in common with Bill Clinton, and stay tuned to end on his beautiful and succinct description of his attraction to goth; possibly the best summation of this ineffable experience and subculture expressed on this podcast yet.
In the early weeks after the election and Halloween, Heather and Vesta try to process these two disparate events. On brand as ever, we open with the darkness of the dystopia in the first half, and then claw toward recovery by downloading about Halloween in the second. How does the political climate affect an often escapist subculture? How does 2024 feel different from 2016? Do you put a political moratorium on family holidays? We close with a rundown of New Orleans on Halloween, and a cliffhanger about Mother Russia (rain down…or don’t).
Welcome to Open Graves After Midnight, in which we are still in Rocky’s house getting into the cliffhangers from part one (and some whiskey and wine). This includes a graphic encounter with Rozz Williams, empathy as a sleeper cell word, and The Other Gargoyle, aka the fraught origin of Rocky and Vesta’s now-cherished friendship. We also get further into Rocky’s meticulous passion as a DJ, his origin in radio, the significance of Twitch during the pandemic which essentially globalized the goth community, and a prophecy for future generations which may or may not include Olivia Rodrigo. Stay tuned to til the end to hear Rocky’s radio voice! Oh and despite the title, this episode does not actually feature Jay Byrd.
Welcome to Open Graves After Dark with Rocky Slaughter, an alleged recovering goth who keeps getting pulled back in. We jump right into the darkness with discussion of growing up a feral latchkey child and loving it, family tragedy turning metalhead anger into goth depression, and a deep desire to be different from a young age, but once finding community, no longer feeling the need to perform this difference. We talk about his start DJing in 1998, being so goth he got girls by rolling around on the ground, storytelling through setlists, and making Vesta miserable at Bar Sin. Tune back in for part two in which we address the cliffhangers: Rozz Williams, empathy, and The Other Gargoyle.
We apologize for literally talking about the weather, but we are on the porch talking #summergoth and what this time of year means for us. Between kayaking, beach and lake bathing, and all of the goth pool parties, this time of year brings some behaviors that might seem incongruous with our usual identities. We talk about how we adapt (and don’t), how we are really not that different even though it looks different, and how the journey toward spooky season feels like its own often overlooked rite of passage. Happy Augtober.
In our most literal Open Graves yet, we are recording a mini-sode in the cemetery. Heather and Vesta catch up after what we will politely call a hiatus, due to chaotic personal lives. Chill with us until we get kicked out of the cemetery. Please bear with some wind interference sounds around 8mins. As Heather cannot stop saying, smoke ‘em if you got ‘em. Smoke ‘em if you goth ‘em?
After a brief recap of Obelisk’s one year anniversary party, we are joined by fellow valley-goth DJ, Randy LeoDragon. He discusses wrangling goths for the film industry through the Bat Pack and being an ethical goth consultant to oblivious casting directors, he shares what songs he won’t play, and some basic human condition questions (like how do you load a TP roll?). You can find Randy DJing Studio 84 on even weeks and The Alternative (along with Heather!) on the odds, and hit up Lotus Events for your alt wedding needs! This episode is dedicated to the memory of Tim Sinn.
We are back to talk about the neurodivergence of it all: the prevalence of ADHD, Autism Spectrum, synesthesia, and “hautism” in the goth community. People who are drawn to subculture seem to be having the human experience a little differently, but what exactly is that difference? We talk about the relationship of CPTSD to neurodivergence, the difference between capital T and lowercase t T/trauma, the intersection of hyper-vigilance and empathy, and generally having no chill. When everything is everything, meaning that we don’t have the ability to compartmentalize to the degree that is valued by a productivity obsessed society, overwhelm might be the unifying feeling that pushes some of us to the margins. But really, are neurotypicals even real?
Depression gets all the stereotyped attention when it comes to diagnosing the goth community, but it is not news that we have higher than average proportion of neuro-spicy members, specifically Autism Spectrum and ADHD (your hosts have a bit of both!) We discuss why people whose brains experience the world differently are drawn to subculture, and more specifically to this one. This can be a desire for routine and repetition, synesthesia, how the baggage of the “gifted child” plays a hand, and what happens to the psyche when your best self feels inaccessible. We also talk about what it means to be “Hautistic” (Vesta thought she coined this but Urban Dictionary says otherwise), meaning how attractive people, especially women, go undiagnosed given access to a different form of masking. Oh, and we end up diagnosing Wednesday and Gomez Addams as on the Autism Spectrum.
As we get deeper into the hospitality rider’s worth of wine, Matthew Setzer tells us more about getting into flesh hook suspension, playing a Skinny Puppy show right after getting his vasectomy, balls in general, and not over-identifying with the label of goth. We also discuss making music with biofeedback, creative frailty, a love of being on the road, productive hyperactivity vs. dissociative hyperactivity, changing your relationship to your art once it’s out in the world, and learning about racism only after moving to LA from Montana. Catch Matthew playing with Front Line Assembly and Gary Numan, April 7th at the Fonda!
We are honored to be joined by Matthew Setzer, who you may recognize from such projects as Skinny Puppy, London After Midnight, and most recently Front Line Assembly, but also from around LA nightlife. He talks with us about growing up a small-town outcast, finding goth and industrial music through the guidance of his older brother, joining a band that they both loved since their youth, becoming a successful guitarist who shirks guitar culture, and we get a brief live acoustic rendition of Stagger Lee (but not that one). From tennis to flesh hook suspension to publicity through music being used as a literal torture device at Guantanamo Bay, there is a lot to unpack over a hospitality rider’s worth of wine.
After a holiday hiatus, we’re back in the graves! This topic comes up in some capacity in almost every episode, so we decided to focus on it intentionally: mental health in the goth community. Depression, anxiety, substance use - our community is full of these, but are they actually more prevalent in our subculture or just more visible? The sad girls talk interventions, therapy, crying in public, and sparkling sadness. This episode is dedicated to the memory of Libby Parham.
Trauma takes a front seat in part two of our conversation with Bob Gardner, and from there it’s a whole journey (content warning: the darkness circles back at 1:01:40 - 1:03:20 with discussion of childhood sexual abuse). Darkness as our copilot, we also hear empowering stories about the 7 hour train ride to Slimelight in London which he then wouldn’t leave until 7am, sex and drugs and bodily functions, differences of heteronormativity and gender nonconformity in the UK and US goth scenes, and the oasis that is Whitby Goth Weekend. Bob shares his experience with adult ADHD diagnosis and its relationship to past self-medication, some shared hot takes on how access to therapy and diagnosis in general has effected and potentially reduced rampant drug culture in our heavily neurodivergent scene, and the value of empathy over pity. It’s an articulated lorry of baggage and we’re here for it.
Deep into the so-called spooky season, Heather and Vesta have a one-on-one that takes turns all over, from our Obelisk Halloween party (Night of the Mamushka!) to goth music being vetoed by a hipper than thou afterhours bartender, to a stalker coming out of the woodwork. We also discuss the dilemma of explaining goth to inquiring minds who don’t even know who David Bowie is, more notes on the ways in which we talk about trauma, and the myth of the chill girl. We hope you’ve had a fulfilling Halloween season, and shoutout to Christie and Kristy!
New to Los Angeles but not at all new to goth, Bob Gardner joins us to talk about being adopted into our community and all of the strange detours that led him here. As you may be able to tell, Bob is from northeastern England, has a gregarious ADHD charm, and a lot to say. We talk gothcest, transhumanism and quantum voodoo bullshit, varying degrees of Otherness, and hot takes on neurodivergence and capitalism. He tells us about clawing his way out of “the Detroit of the UK,” entering goth through Nine Inch Nails, the concept of subculture vs. counterculture, and the male gaze within goth. We end on a trauma cliffhanger, which we’ll get into in part two.
From tarot reading, to a 16 year career in dance, L Faunt is a wildly multifaceted goth, queer, Jew-witch comedian, and today they share their insights with us. They discuss being raised in a Romanian interfaith household and rejecting both religions in favor of “skeptical agnostic jewish inspired mysticism,” struggling with cultural appropriation, and the goth renaissance that is taking place in Los Angeles post-pandemic. We touch on the commodification of goth femme people, how LGBTQ+ folks are taking up the mantle in newer goth spaces, and how “woke” comedy is actually funnier. Oh, and Vesta is a terrible tarot client. Come see El perform a dance piece alongside your hosts reading poetry at Cortex Worship at North End on 9/30!
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