The What School Could Be Podcast

Dr. Carole Basile is the Dean and a professor at Arizona State University’s Mary Lou Fulton College for Teaching and Learning Innovation, the largest college of education in the nation. Since 2016, she has led efforts to redesign the educator workforce through team-based models that honor learner variance and expand the possibilities of teaching. Before ASU, she served as Dean of the College of Education at the University of Missouri–St. Louis, and held faculty and leadership positions at the University of Colorado Denver and the University of Houston. Carole is co-author of The Next Education Workforce: How Team-Based Staffing Models Can Support Equity and Improve Learning Outcomes, and has published widely on teacher preparation, systems change, and school–community partnerships. With a career that also includes 15 years in business management and organizational development, she brings a rare blend of entrepreneurial spirit and educational vision .Erin O’Reilly at the University of Montana, a previous podcast guest, wrote the following about Carole for this episode. “Her work in reimagining the teacher workforce is truly inspiring. Through innovative, team-based teaching models, she and her team are not only transforming how schools operate but also reshaping the future of education. As a teacher educator and researcher, I’ve been deeply influenced by her vision and dedication. Witnessing the tangible impact on teacher retention and job satisfaction has given me renewed hope and affirmation in my own work designing systems and curriculum to better support aspiring educators.”So listeners, let’s get to know Carole before we dive into the deep end of education, teaching in teams, and teacher training pathways. We start with music. Carole has been listening to A History of Rock in 500 Songs. It’s not just about riffs or hit singles—it’s about rock as a cultural movement, full of experimentation, disruption, and variance. When she listens, is she a fan? A learner? A dean leading one of the largest colleges of education in the country? Likely all of the above.Then we rewind to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, where school came easily but wasn’t especially engaging. Her entrepreneurial father shaped her worldview—teaching her to manage people well and stay open to ideas. His influence still guides her leadership.Carole’s career is anything but conventional: student teaching in Philadelphia, a master’s in counseling, 15 years in business, then a doctorate that brought her back to education. Along the way, a boss once told her being interested in “a lot of things” was a flaw. But David Epstein’s Range would disagree—and Carole’s life proves it.From there, we’ll talk about variance. Not just as a math term or biblical one, but as a philosophy of education: every learner moves at their own pace, in their own way. ASU’s Next Education Workforce is putting that into practice—moving beyond the “one teacher, one classroom” model to teams of educators who bring diverse strengths.We’ll also touch on ideas like “loonshots” and “possibility thinking,” and ask Carole to paint a picture of what team-based classrooms feel like—for students, teachers, and families. And we’ll close with a shout out to those whose shoulders she stands on.So buckle up. From Jefferson Airplane to Jefferson County, from Harrisburg to Arizona, this conversation is about rock and roll, variance, teaching in teams, and the future of education itself.Post production editing provided by the talented Evan Kurohara. Our theme music is by pianist, Michael Sloan.

Listeners, if you are inclined to go to the Red Bridge school website, which I hope you are, and you click on Our Team in the NAV bar, you will find the following bio for Orly Friedman, Red Bridge’s founder: “When I began teaching in 2007, I wanted to expand real opportunity for kids, and since then both opportunity—and the skills to seize it—have shifted; technology lets more people create and connect, but it only matters when learners have the know-how and confidence to use it—that is, agency. Agency sits at the heart of Red Bridge: while traditional schools reward compliance, we reward initiative. Students don’t just receive information—they drive their own learning—and they show up eager, day after day. Designing for agency means reworking school systems and structures; the experience won’t mirror your K–8 memories, yet the essentials remain: caring teachers, hands-on projects, academic challenge, and the joys every child loves—field trips, the Halloween parade, and more. Our tactics are fresh, but our values are rooted in a long line of progressive educators—John Dewey, Maria Montessori, and Deborah Meier—and in the last fifty years of cognitive science and psychology, translated daily by a skilled team.” I will note here that before launching Red Bridge, Orly was an Entrepreneur-in-Residence with Transcend. She was a founding team member at the Khan Lab School and has degrees from Yale University, George Mason University and the Stanford Graduate School of Business. Mason Pashia, the producer of Getting Smart’s podcasts and page editor and producer for Getting Smart’s blogs (and by the way, I recommend reading everything and listening to everything that comes from Getting Smart), wrote the following for this episode: “When you step inside Red Bridge, a San Francisco-based K-8 microschool, you immediately recognize that you're in a place that LOVES learning. Imagine kindergarteners with the agency to shape their own days and their own curiosities. Picture a curriculum built around 'noticing'—empowering students to connect, find and solve problems in their community. Red Bridge is a place where personalized, competency-based and high-agency learning is so much more than a soup of buzzwords; it's a daily practice that's nurturing a new generation of changemakers. Schools like Red Bridge are signals from the future, showing us not only what school could be, but what school can be.” And finally, here is an excerpt from a letter written by a former student of Orly’s, before she founded Red Bridge, that I think is so beautiful: “Hi Ms. Friedman, I hope you're doing well! I wanted to reach out and thank you for being such an amazing third-grade teacher at Murch all those years ago, and to let you know that I'm now becoming a teacher. I'll be teaching fourth grade in Aurora, Colorado, and school starts next week (ahhhhh!). I wrote about your class (featuring the green pouf) on my application for Teach for America, and I'm planning to have a Funky-Monkey-style shared writing project in my class as well. I just wanted to send a quick note before the year starts to say thank you for being an inspiration to me. I would also appreciate any first-year-teacher tips you might have! Thanks for everything, Olivia.” Our episodes are edited by the talented Evan Kurohara. Our theme music comes from the catalog of pianist, Michael Sloan.

For this 150th celebration my guest on the 101st episode, Emma Reppun (married and now Emma Jean George) and I decided she would interview me. Fun! The following is how she described, on LinkedIn, the episode and her experience being the host of the show. "Today I had the immense honor and privilege of interviewing my dad, Josh Reppun, the Executive Director of What School Could Be, for this 150th 'Talk Story' edition of the What School Could Be Podcast. If you've ever tuned into his show, you know that my pop is a master of crafting thoughtful questions based on an incredible amount of research for each and every guest he sits down with. As someone who has never been in the host chair before, it was a formative experience for me to attempt to offer him the same level of structured inquiry, while balancing my giddy delight as his daughter to be behind the mic! As this day comes to a close, and I marvel at what a meaningful opportunity this has been, I want to say a wholehearted mahalo to all the previous guests on the pod; it was you who helped me shape and craft my approach as I listened and re-listened to your amazing conversations in preparation for this moment. And a special shout out and thanks to Parul Punjabi Jagdish, Jennifer Ahn, Steven Shapiro, Nancy Shapiro Rapport, and Roman Krznaric, whose episodes sparked some of my favorite questions. And lastly, but certainly not least, my hat is off to you Ted Dintersmith, the executive producer of the acclaimed film, Most Likely to Succeed and the catalytic driving force that launched my beloved father into the happiest and most fulfilling years of his life." Our episodes are edited by the peerless, Evan Kurohara. Our theme music is provided by the master pianist, Michael Sloan.

INSTALL THE OUR FAMILY CULTURE APP FROM YOUR FAVORITE APP STORE AND USE THE PROMO CODE: WSCB. Today my guests are Steve Shapiro and his sister, Nancy Rapport, veteran educators in the Great State of Ohio. During his 34 years as a public-school educator, Steven Shapiro emerged as a national thought leader in experiential learning. His acclaimed podcast, Experience Matters, featured national experts including Daniel Pink, Tony Wagner, and Father Greg Boyle. In addition to his work as a high school teacher/program director/district leader, Steve trained teachers at Ohio State University, provided professional learning for educators in emerging democracies (including Poland, Ukraine, and South Africa), and was a regular keynote and conference speaker. At all stages of his career, he has been committed to designing powerful experiential learning opportunities that transformed the lives of students and teachers alike. Steve’s most important work, however, was partnering with his wife Susan to raise their three (now adult) children.Nancy Rapport spent the majority of her 34-year public-education career as a school counselor, supporting students and parents in navigating the challenging “middle years.” Her leadership roles in professional development and crisis management showcased her ability to identify needs, empathize with various stakeholders, and deliver results. As a certified Hudson Institute coach, Nancy has extensive training in coaching and human development. She leads courses on learner mindset and question thinking for the Inquiry Institute, helping adults pursue a life of curiosity, inquiry, and possibility. Nancy brings a wealth of experience in both child and adult learning to her role as co-founder, with Steve, her brother, of Our Family Culture. Most importantly, she is the proud parent of two adult children, Emily and Jacob.Dr. Michelle Pledger is the Founder of Living for Liberation and Director of Liberation at the High Tech High Graduate School of Education, where she leads work at the intersection of equity, community, and student-centered learning. A nationally recognized educator, author, and freedom facilitator, Michelle has spent her career helping schools and systems reimagine learning as a liberatory act. She also serves on the advisory board for Our Family Culture, and knows Steve and Nancy well. She wrote the following just for this episode: Steve Shapiro is one of the most humble, helpful, human-centered people I have ever met. We first met during a podcast interview and became instant friends. He speaks truth in love and is intentional in his actions. More importantly, he has a heart for young people and their families. And all of that goodness must run in the family because his sister, Nancy is a treasure trove of empathy, humor and patience. And I trust anyone who is willing to Karaoke with me, no questions asked! I'm thrilled that the What School Could Be community will benefit from Steve and Nancy’s lived experience as educators, parents, and co-founders of Our Family Culture.Our episodes are edited by the peerless, Evan Kurohara. Our theme music is provided by the master pianist, Michael Sloan.

Listeners, imagine waking up to a school day with no bells, no rows of desks, no rigid timetable of subjects broken into 50-minute chunks. Instead, you open your laptop or step into a learning space that feels more like a studio, a lab, or a mission control center than a traditional classroom. Your day begins by checking in with your learning coach, not to be told what to memorize, but to map out the goals you set for yourself, goals tied to real-world challenges, not just assignments. Maybe you’ll spend the morning collaborating with peers from five continents on a project to design an accessible renewable energy solution for a community you’ve interviewed over video calls. After a break, you join a live session with an astrophysicist or a social entrepreneur—an expert whose job it is not to lecture, but to provoke questions and offer guidance. In the afternoon, you dive into a self-directed sprint: researching, prototyping, refining. You’ll log reflections, track your growth across competencies, and connect your work to global sustainable development goals. And all along the way, you’ll be developing not just knowledge, but the habits of curiosity, collaboration, and self-direction that define lifelong learners. This is a glimpse into the School of Humanity, an ambitious experiment in reimagining what learning can look like when it’s no longer bound by the old industrial model. My guest today, Raya Bidshahri, is its founder and CEO. Drawing on her background in neuroscience, her passion for human flourishing, and her conviction that education must be designed for the future—not the past—Raya has built a model that blends purpose, agency, and global connection. In this conversation, we explore what it takes to create a learning ecosystem that feels alive, human-centered, and relevant—and why she believes every learner deserves the chance to be the architect of their own education.Raya is an award-winning serial education entrepreneur. She is passionate about utilizing education as a tool for sustainable development and human progress. She has expansive experience in designing, facilitating and scaling innovative education programs. Among many other awards, Raya is listed by the BBC as one of the most inspiring and influential women on Planet Earth. As always our episodes are edited by the talented Evan Kurohara. Our theme music is by the master pianist, Michael Sloan. (NOTE: This episode was inspired by my viewing of the incredible PBS series, A Short History of the Future.)

No joke, listeners—today’s guest, Erin O’Reilly, grew up in Missoula, Montana and attended Mount Jumbo Elementary, Rattlesnake Middle, and Hellgate High. Hashtag best school names, ever. And now, full circle, Erin is shaping the future of education from right there in the heart of Big Sky Country. At the University of Montana Erin is an Adjunct Assistant Professor in the Department of Teaching and Learning where she prepares preservice teachers through courses like Ethics and Policy Issues, Educational Psychology, Social Studies Methods, and field experience seminars. She is also an Instructor for the Office of Student Success and TRiO teaching courses like You at UM - First Year seminar and College and Career Success, supporting students transitioning into college and leaving with their degree.She’s also a doctoral candidate pursuing her doctorate in Teaching and Learning.What brought Erin to this podcast, though, is her growing body of work around teaching in teams—a practice she’s researching, writing about, and living through a book she co-authored titled “team ED”. She’s posing powerful questions about how collaborative teaching models can strengthen schools, support teachers, and—maybe—keep more of them in the profession, which, by the way, will be the subject of her dissertation. In the classroom, Erin mentors and supports future educators, helping them prepare not just for their first field placement, but for the real, messy, beautiful work of teaching. Her vision is bold, meaning learning that is inclusive, personalized, and rooted in community. She’s helping to build ecosystems where innovation, equity, and shared practice can thrive.In preparing for this conversation, I read through several letters written on Erin’s behalf. One described her as “a reliable colleague known for her focus on preparing strong and adaptable classroom teachers.” Another spoke to “the creativity she pours into her preparation,” her ability to “create thoughtful and caring learning environments while also adhering to rigorous goals,” and her work to “address individual differences and reach diverse learners.” Another letter called out the “virtual library” she built for her students—complete with a personal avatar and curated DEI-aligned resources—as a reflection of her thoughtful innovation. Another letter noted, simply and powerfully: “She cares deeply about making the world a better place through education.” But the line that lingered with me was this: “She is highly professional in all her endeavors, and her work is invaluable to our department.” High praise indeed. Nick Salmon, one of Erin’s co-authors wrote the following for this episode: “When I first met Erin ten years ago, I knew she saw the future of learning differently. In a room of men talking about the bureaucracy of school, Erin was the only woman talking about the integration of technology, resilience, and integrated learning experiences. That first encounter led to collaborating on the educational vision of a small school, and then our article on furniture whispering. When the opportunity to create the book teamED emerged, Erin O’Reilly and Mar Cano were the obvious co-authors.” And finally there was this—from one of Erin’s students:“You’ve truly been an inspiration in my life and helped me feel human and worthy when I didn’t. I’ve had more than one bump in my journey to become a teacher, and all of the understanding, warm welcomes, and support helped me more than you know.”Our episodes are edited by the talented Evan Kurohara. Our theme music comes from the catalog of master pianist, Michael Sloan.

Listeners, buckle up. You’re about to meet a Virginia public school superintendent whose mother referred to him as Tom Sawyer, and for good reason. Dr. Jason Van Heukelum has been rallying people around bold visions since his earliest days in Rochester, New York. We can only imagine him convincing friends to join some backyard adventure, or today, getting entire communities to reimagine high school. Jason is someone who knows how to design and build—and bring others with him.He’s also the kind of educator, coach, guide and mentor who sees transformation not as a someday ideal, but as a here-and-now imperative. His 27-year journey includes teaching math, coaching sports, leading middle and high schools, and directing an American international school in La Paz, Bolivia. He brings deep systems experience, from classroom to central office, and a rock-solid belief that the secret to great schools lies in pairing high expectations with a deep connection to community, where so much of learning happens.Today, he’s the superintendent of Winchester Public Schools in Virginia and the driving force behind something extraordinary: the Emil and Grace Shihadeh Innovation Center, a cathedral to possibility and purpose that redefines what high school could be. No bells. Just young people walking through doors into real-world learning and a buffet of multiple choices.But before we get there, we’re heading to Algonquin, Canada, where a young Jason portaged a canoe across miles of wilderness. We’ll linger in Ecclesiastes, the Old Testament book that moves him, even on the hardest days, to rejoice in the work and find meaning in the mystery. We’ll talk about "The Speed of Trust," why relationships drive change, and what Jason means when he says, “The most important lessons we learn cannot be measured by standardized tests.” We’ll dive into the Shihadeh Center, his strategic vision for Winchester, and how his grad school capstone is becoming real through collaborative, school-based services.We’ll explore cathedral thinking, the future of public education, and the courage it takes to build innovation that lasts. And in the end, we’ll honor the wisdom of a mentor named Penny Hedrick, whose support Jason carries with him every day. To close these show notes I’ll quote from a letter written on Jason’s behalf: “The best leaders make everyone around them better. The best leaders improve the organization they lead, cultivate passionate and loyal followers who believe in their vision, and pave the way for future leaders to carry on their work when they are gone. Jason Van Heukelum is one of the best leaders I have had the opportunity to work with.”Our episodes are edited by the talented audio engineer, Evan Kurohara. Our theme music comes from the catalog of pianist, Michael Sloan.

Crystal Clark is a passionate and dedicated educator based in Kemmerer, Wyoming, with over two decades of experience in early childhood and elementary education. Currently serving as both a K–6 Instructional Facilitator and teacher in Lincoln County School District 1, she is a dynamic leader who thrives at the intersection of curriculum development, instructional coaching, and educator support. Crystal is deeply committed to hands-on, project-based learning and has played key roles in the RIDE initiative, the Rural Teacher Corps Program, and her district’s PLC and Building Leadership Teams. RIDE PD is supported by 2Revolutions. Crystal's work is rooted in meaningful collaboration, whether she’s mentoring new teachers, leading curriculum alignment efforts, or helping educators analyze data to drive classroom practice. Having received multiple professional educator certifications, she brings a research-informed approach to literacy and learning. Above all, she is known for cultivating warm, supportive environments where both students and teachers can thrive.And today, we’re going to stretch this story out across time and place—from Crystal’s childhood in a Wyoming town of 3,000 to her leadership in one of the state’s most ambitious education innovation efforts. Crystal and I talk about how the way we teach math can unintentionally create a sorting system, and why Crystal believes love of math starts in the earliest grades. We’ll explore what it truly means to coach teachers, how her deep roots in the Kemmerer community shape her impact, and why working side-by-side with educators—not above or outside—makes all the difference. Crystal will share how a single student helped define her “why,” and we’ll get a window into her vision for what Wyoming’s students could become when we remove barriers and build systems around relationships. You’ll also hear about a statewide showcase that puts hope on full display. You’ll hear about a children’s book manuscript Crystal wrote, a diamond-sized breakthrough in her professional practice, a new approach to SEL called BARR, and how it all comes back to mentorship and belonging. And when Crystal answers my final question with two names—Nikki Baldwin and her husband, Shane—you’ll understand exactly why I wanted to bring her voice to this podcast.What you are about to hear is not just the story of one educator—it is the story of what happens when roots run deep, when relationships guide the work, and when courage meets a commitment to community. Crystal Clark reminds us that transformation isn’t a theory. It’s a practice. It’s personal. And it’s happening—in Wyoming, and maybe, just maybe, in a school near you.The WSCB Podcast is edited by the talented Evan Kurohara. Our theme music is the pianist, Michael Sloan.

Jennifer Ahn is the executive director of Lead by Learning. She lives with her husband and children in northern California. The reason I asked Jennifer to be on this show is because I read an incredible book in 2024 titled Street Data. Carrie Wilson, the author of chapter 7 of Street Data and the former executive director of Lead by Learning wrote the following for this episode. “I remember over a decade ago, after Jennifer Ahn interviewed for a program associate position with us at Lead by Learning, I had this strong sense that there was nothing she couldn't do. So there are countless wonderful things to know about her. The first, which you are likely to detect in this conversation, is a combination of wicked intelligence and joyful spirit. There is a brilliant dynamism to her approach. She brings grounding, compassion, and clarity, which are much-needed qualities of leadership in these uncertain times. Showing up this way, she creates the conditions that allow for vulnerability, and also for an expansive sense of possibility and creativity. In working this way, Jennifer has made invaluable contributions to Lead by Learning and to public education. Jennifer designed and implemented the Lead by Learning Certificate Program, she built robust partnerships with Social and Emotional Learning departments and Expanded Learning teams, she pioneered Lead by Learning’s work with the Chicago Public Schools Fund, she created Lead by Learning’s Anti-racist Affinity Networks, and she developed a dynamic team of program leaders who are skilled at creating spaces that hold the complexity of what it means to lead, teach, and learn together. I am forever grateful for the way Jennifer continues to lead and develop Lead by Learning.” As you prepare to dive into this conversation, listeners, ask yourself if the true revolution in education isn’t happening in classrooms—but in the minds and hearts of the educators themselves. What if the way forward isn’t more training, more compliance, or more performance metrics—but a profound act of unlearning, re-seeing, and reconnecting? Jennifer Ahn believes that professional learning should be more than a box to check. For her, it’s about mending and reinforcing—yes, like sashiko stitching, which she is learning—and about letting art, dance, and story shape our understanding of what it means to grow, together. Most of all, Jennifer sees the deep value in being willing to be disturbed. Finally, listeners, Jennifer Ahn wrote the following words in an online article she shared with me: “In Braiding Sweetgrass, Robin Wall Kimmerer writes that “It’s such a simple thing but we all know the power of gratitude to incite a cycle of reciprocity.” Ahn goes on to say, When educators appreciate one another’s perspectives and they see how their collective perspectives lead to action, they feel empowered to spread it across their system.” As always, our episodes are edited by the amazing Evan Kurohara. Our theme music comes from the catalog of pianist, Michael Sloan.

Emine Naz Can is a university student born and raised in Turkey who sees herself as citizen of the world. Emine is not simply studying industrial engineering—she’s actively engineering the future of education as one of the first students in a phenomenon called Nobel Navigators. Her journey is one of bold imagination and quiet courage, of bridges built between cultures, communities, and ideas. She’s the founder of Paridoc Academy, a reimagined learning experience that invites students to be seen, heard, and prepared for life beyond the classroom. And as I just mentioned, she has been an integral part of Nobel Navigators, where education transformation is not just a goal, but a daily practice. Nobel Navigators is a global social-learning community where youth come to learn, lead, and succeed. It emphasizes collaboration on local and international projects, helping students progress from learners to global leaders. By mastering technical, soft, and leadership skills, and cultivating cultural awareness and empathy, Nobel prepares students to thrive in the 21st-century global economy. This approach has aligned seamlessly with Emine’s passion for creating educational systems that are both equitable and relevant. Andrew Sachs, the founder of Nobel Navigators wrote the following for this episode: “Emine joined Nobel Navigators in 2021 as one of our first youth from Turkey. She was shy but deeply passionate about learning, connecting with others, and helping people. She believed she could achieve much more in the right learning environment, and over the next four years, she created that environment not only for herself but for thousands of other youths around the globe. Emine developed a wide range of skills, including sales, networking, marketing, negotiation, and promotion, while also growing into the action-oriented, empathetic leader our world needs. She stands as a role model for countless youth and as living proof of the incredible potential young people have to become compassionate, capable leaders.” In this conversation, we’ll step into Emine’s global perspective and explore how her upbringing has shaped a deep love for true teamwork—even through the surprising lens of American flag football, which she plays in Istanbul. We’ll travel through her values, her inspirations, and the questions that keep her moving forward. You’ll hear how James Clear’s "Atomic Habits" has guided her toward the power of small, consistent changes, and how these “tiny gains” have compounded into the leader she is today. We’ll examine the contours of equal access, the weight of purpose, and the fire of passion—unpacking what education could become when it is built to serve all learners, not just a select few. Emine reminds us that meaningful change often starts with the little things—a kind gesture, a word of encouragement, a coffee run, a teacher who listens. And from these moments, we can build a world where school is not a system of sorting, but a space of becoming. So join us for a conversation that lifts, challenges, and inspires—a conversation about education, identity, and the kind of future that doesn’t just happen, but is designed with care and intention. As always our episodes are edited by the talented Evan Kurohara, and our theme music is by the master pianist, Michael Sloan. 

Listeners, imagine a student who always loved school—not just for the grades or the gold stars, but for the challenge, the structure, the sense of accomplishment. A student who moved frequently as a kid, not worried about making friends, but determined to succeed academically. A student who “played school well,” but, looking back, remembers teachers more than lessons, relationships more than curriculum. That student was Rebecca Parks. Rebecca doesn’t just believe in education—she lives it. From a K-12 experience that set the stage for her passion to teach to the defining “failure moments” that forged her resilience in college, Rebecca’s journey has been one of learning, leading, and, most of all, reimagining what’s possible. And at the heart of her mission? A bold idea: that learning should be rooted in place, connected to the real world, and designed to spark curiosity and wonder. Her dissertation, The Impact of a Place-Based Environment on Elementary Students, is a call to action. It examines the power of place-based learning, where students don’t just sit at desks but engage with the world around them. She explored the country’s most innovative schools—Teton Science Schools in Wyoming, the Zoo Academy in Nebraska, Missouri’s WOLF Academy and many more—places where learning is hands-on, immersive, and deeply connected to the community. But she didn’t stop at research. As principal of Southview Elementary in southern Missouri, Rebecca led a school that became a state-recognized model for collaboration and professional learning. And in 2019, she took her vision even further, launching LENS—Learning and Exploring through Nature and Science—a groundbreaking school within a school, where a select group of third and fourth graders engaged in a non-traditional, science, nature-focused and archeology oriented curriculum while still meeting state standards. Her story is about breaking free from the factory model of education, embracing curiosity, and fostering a culture of learning that is real, meaningful, and alive. Today, we step into that story with her. So get ready; this is more than a conversation. It’s an invitation to rethink what’s possible in education. An invitation to consider what school could be, and what could be school. As always our episodes are edited by sound engineer, Evan Kurohara. Our theme music comes from the catalog of master pianist, Michael Sloan.

Imagine a school, not just built with bricks and mortar, but with hope. A place where students don’t just learn—they lead. A space where innovation isn’t a buzzword—it’s the foundation of every single day. Today on the What School Could Be Podcast, we step into the future of education with two visionary leaders who happen to live and work in the Great State of Rhode Island: Bryan Byerlee and Heather Breton. Heather grew up in Rhode Island, raised by a village—her grandparents, her teachers, and a community that shaped her into the educator she is today. She’s a believer in the power of connections, curiosity, and personalization—because no two students should or will ever walk the same path. Currently she is the principal at Rhodes Elementary in Rhode Island’s Cranston Public Schools. Bryan, also a Rhode Island native, found inspiration in the relationships he built while in school and on his life’s journey. I ask him to reflect on how hope, the state motto of Rhode Island and not just an abstract idea, is built from relationships, from moving at the speed of trust in a school culture where every voice matters. Bryan has been and continues to be the principal at Garden City Elementary, which is largely the focus of this episode. Together, they stand at the heart of Garden City Elementary, a groundbreaking school designed by Fielding International not just for students, but with the entire Garden City community. Imagine a place where learning spaces flex and shift, where nature meets design, and where education is reimagined through the lens of choice, autonomy, and well-being. In this episode, we’ll talk about what it means to design a school around students instead of fitting students into a school. We’ll explore the discomfort of change, the thrill of transformation, and the small, human moments that create lasting impact. We will address questions such as: How do learning environments contribute to deeper and collaborative learning? What does it look like when kids take charge of their own learning journeys? And how can the physical spaces we build today shape the communities of tomorrow? And if you think this episode is just about one school, think again. This conversation is about the future of education itself. Nathan Strenge, the Senior Learning Designer at Fielding International wrote the following for this episode: “I recommended Bryan and Heather for the What School Could Be Podcast because of their remarkable leadership during the launch of Garden City School. They embraced learner-centered teaching, empowering others to transform practices and shift from isolated classrooms to collaborative environments where student agency and joy flourish. Their lived experience exemplifies the heart of what school could be." So fasten your seatbelts, listeners; here is my conversation with Heather Breton and Bryan Byerlee. The show's audio is engineered by Evan Kurohara. Our theme music is provided by pianist, Michael Sloan.

Listeners, a little over a year ago I attended a leadership conference here in my home city of Honolulu. At that conference the keynote, a futurist named Richard Yonck referred to a book he felt the 1000 business leaders in the audience needed to read. The book he referenced is The Good Ancestor, by Roman Krznaric. Five minutes after Yonck's reference Krznaric’s book was on its way to me via my Amazon app. The Good Ancestor changed the arc of my life and shifted my thinking about education 180 degrees. So it is with great pleasure that I bring to you today my interview with its author. In this episode I delve deep into the mind of one of the most thought-provoking authors of our time. Roman Krznaric is a public philosopher, social change advocate, and, as noted, the author of the influential book The Good Ancestor: How to Think Long Term in a Short-Term World. His work challenges us to reimagine how we approach the future, prioritize intergenerational justice, and rethink the systems that shape our lives—including and maybe most importantly, education. We begin with a walk through the world’s first Empathy Museum, an initiative Roman founded, which invites visitors to step into the shoes of others—literally and figuratively. From there, we explore how his own intercultural experiences as a young student in Hong Kong sparked a lifelong commitment to empathy and connection. Then, we geek out on Roman’s acclaim as a writer. The Good Ancestor has garnered praise from luminaries like The Edge of U2 fame, who called it “the book our children’s children will thank us for reading.” We discuss how such heartfelt endorsements fuel his mission to inspire long-term thinking. Subsequently, we turn our focus to the intersection of education and the ideas in The Good Ancestor. How can teachers incorporate concepts like Wade Davis’ ethnosphere into cross-disciplinary lessons that encourage students to think across time? How might legacy thinking, cathedral building, and imagination as a skill become the core of a reimagined curriculum? Roman shares actionable insights that educators can bring to life in their classrooms today. We also discuss bold ideas for governance, such as transitioning from nation-states to city-states, and how such shifts could empower students to design systems rooted in deep democracy and sustainable futures. And we explore the potential of a course modeled after Kim Stanley Robinson’s The Ministry for the Future, deputizing students as “ministers” tasked with addressing humanity’s greatest challenges.Finally, listeners, as I write approximately 8 billion humans are alive on Earth. Over 50,000 years approximately 100 billion have already died. And, approximately 7 trillion humans will be born in the next 50,000 years. This episode is dedicated to the just born, and yet unborn. Sophie Halliday, a dear friend and the executive director of the Laulima Foundation here in Hawaii said the following for this episode: “The Good Ancestor has been an important part of my thinking as both a citizen of the world and as an educator. I was profoundly moved by Krznaric’s call for us to extend our time horizon when it comes to decision-making to shift towards acorn thinking, taking into consideration the interests of future generations. His work translating and amplifying indigenous knowledge and wisdom has deeply influenced my work with youth - a core mindset that we seek to instill in our Laulima Foundation youth advisory board members is a generational mindset: We ask, How might we infuse our decision-making to take into account future generations yet to be born?" Our episodes are engineered and edited by the talented Evan Kurohara. Our theme music comes from the catalog of pianist, Michael Sloan.

Back in June of last year, listeners, my daughter, Emma got married in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada Mountains in California. The day after her wedding my wife and I got coffee and breakfast at a Nevada City coffee joint. While I was in the restroom Cheryl spotted a guy wearing a floppy hat reading and writing at one of the shop’s tables. The book he had open was John Hattie’s Visible Learning. She rushed to get me as I emerged from the restroom and excitedly shared what she had spotted. We sashayed over to the guy and struck up a conversation about his reading of Hattie. As it turned out, the gods were watching over me that morning because the gentleman, Tony Frontier, was and is a colleague of John Hattie. Tony and I traded contacts and later, at my request, asked Mr. Hattie if he would be on my show. Long story short, John Hattie and Tony Frontier are my first guests of the 2025 season. I could not be more stoked, honored, pleased and privileged.Professor John Hattie is a researcher in education. His research interests include performance indicators, models of measurement and evaluation of teaching and learning. Hattie became known to a wider public with his two books Visible Learning and Visible Learning for Teachers. Visible Learning is a synthesis of more than 800 meta-studies covering more than 80 million students. Visible Learning is the result of 15 years of research about what works best for learning in schools. He has been called “possibly the world’s most influential education academic.” I asked ChatGPT for a quote about John Hattie and it came with this: “John Hattie is a beacon of educational insight, illuminating what truly works in the classroom with unparalleled clarity and evidence. His groundbreaking work in Visible Learning has redefined how we understand impact, empowering educators to transform learning outcomes worldwide.” Thanks, ChatGPT, and I could not agree more. You can find more on John Hattie at the website of the Melbourne Graduate School of Education, University of Melbourne, in Australia. Tony Frontier is an award-winning educator who works with teachers and school leaders nationally and internationally to help them prioritize efforts to improve student learning. With expertise in student engagement, evidence-based assessment, effective instruction, teacher reflection, data analysis, and strategic planning, Frontier emphasizes a systems approach to build capacity and empower teachers to improve each student’s schooling experience. Prior to his work as a consultant, Frontier served as an associate professor of doctoral leadership studies at Cardinal Stritch University in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, where he taught courses in curriculum development, organizational learning, research methods, and statistics. As a former classroom teacher in Milwaukee Public Schools, an associate high school principal, and the director of curriculum and instruction for the Whitefish Bay School District, Frontier brings a wealth of experience to his writing and research. His latest book, AI with Intention: Principles and Action Steps for Teachers and School Leaders will be published later this year through ASCD. As a professional musician and photographer, Frontier is always listening and looking for metaphors in the arts and humanities to help participants make authentic connections to the opportunities and challenges teachers and school leaders face each day.As always, our episodes are edited by the talented Evan Kurohara, and our theme music comes from the catalog of pianist, Michael Sloan. Please leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts!

If you are listening to this episode on the day of its release, it is Christmas Day, 2024, listeners, and you are welcome! My Christmas gift to you is Sean Duffie, who, frankly, is a crazy awesome and amazing educator in the great state of Michigan. Sean is a Project Next PBL, and Spanish-Immersion teacher at Forest Hills Northern High School in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Along the way he has served as Adjunct Professor of Spanish at Grand Valley State University and before that, he was a Fulbright English Teacher at Villablanca High School in Madrid, Spain, where he taught 7th and 8th grade learners while building a bilingual program and developing literature workshops. As a Project Next PBL teacher, department and program chair he has played many roles, including helping learners experience 21st-century learning essentials through authentic project experiences. He co-taught projects and inquiries with world history, biology, geometry, English, environmental science, and art. Sean coaches a 25-member high-school writing club and slam team that meets weekly and publishes a literary/arts magazine every school year. His experience training as a Louder than a Bomb! national organizer cemented his passion for injecting intersectionality and youth voices into his teaching and writing. Working side-by-side with students, he helps them become adults who will work to bring the marginalized to the center in whatever realm they work and live in. Sean holds an Education Specialist pre-doctoral degree in Education Leadership, as well as a Master's in Spanish Curriculum and Instruction from the Interamerican University of Puerto Rico, where he was fortunate enough to emphasize 20th century and contemporary Caribbean poetry. Wendy Zdeb, the Executive Director of the Michigan Association of Secondary School Principals had this to say about Project Next: “While observing the Project Next student presentations, I was struck by their professionalism, confidence, and impressive depth of knowledge. These students demonstrated a remarkable ability to connect literature to history, geography, and culture, showcasing an understanding far beyond the book's storyline. Equally impressive were the employability skills on display—articulate communication, collaboration, organization, and creativity—skills that are essential for success in any career. It was clear they had engaged deeply with their learning, both as individuals and as teams.” Lynn Cvengros, our What School Could Be Global Innovation Synergist and the person responsible for bringing Sean to my attention shared this comment she heard from one of Sean’s students: “"Project Next has helped me in ways that I couldn't even imagine. Going into high school I was a very poor public speaker. Project Next taught me how to speak with confidence in front of large crowds and how to develop social skills." As this year comes to a close I want to express my gratitude to my team - Evan Kurohara (audio engineer) and Michael Sloan (theme music) - for their tireless support of this show.

My guest for this episode is LeeAnn Kittle, the director of sustainability programs for the Denver Public Schools. LeeAnn showed up on my radar screen because of a headline in EdWeek’s weekly newsletter. The headline read, "This Leader Partners With Students to Build a More Sustainable Future for Her District." At EdWeek’s website I discovered two more articles about LeeAnn, and vowed then and there to track down her contact and invite her to be my guest on the show. For the past several weeks I have been doing a deep dive into LeeAnn’s life, and work. She is an extraordinary human with a mile wide, and mile deep resume, all of which indicates she is a warrior for Planet Earth, and a powerful advocate for student voice. Describing her more formally, she is a strategic professional who has built sustainability programs in higher education and K-12 for over 15 years. She has a Master’s in Business Administration and a B.S. in Environmental Science. She is passionate about educating and inspiring her community on sustainability initiatives to address pressing climate issues. She works hard to change the narrative from climate crisis to one of bold action, innovation, and accountability. LeeAnn has implemented green roofs, rooftop solar, community solar, building and fleet electrification, natural resource management, and student engagement. She has served on several boards across the front range including organizations such as US Green Building Council, Recycle Colorado, and the Colorado Association for School District Energy Managers. She also took part in NREL’s Energy Executive Leadership Program and was recently named Energy Manager of the Year for the Central and South US through the Association of Energy Engineers. Most of all, LeeAnn is a strong advocate for the power and the promise of public education. I spent some time researching the team LeeAnn built for the Denver Public Schools Sustainability program. Wow, their collective commitment to Planet Earth and opportunity-based learning for young learners put a charge in my battery that will last for months, I am sure. From LeeAnn's online biography I noted that she grew up in Cleveland catching frogs, kicking a soccer ball, and holding her own among her three brothers. When she’s not feeling the constant shame of failing to get through her inbox, she can be found spending time with her family, watching The Wizard of Oz, or letting her creative juices flow through art or fashion.These episodes are edited by the talented Evan Kurohara. Our music comes from the vast catalog of my college roommate and master pianist, Michael Sloan.

Mitch Weathers is a brilliant educator, author of the book, Executive Functions for Every Classroom and the founder of Organized Binder. Organized Binder is an evidence-based MTSS Tier 1 universal solution. It provides a structured environment with clear expectations and routines, exposing students to goal setting, reflective learning, time management, study strategies, and organizational skills. It aligns with Universal Design for Learning and supports Least Restrictive Environments, or LREs. You know listeners, I graduated from high school in 1976 with a 2.6 GPA and awful SAT scores. My first year of college was a massive success if you consider drinking and playing rugby the object. After dropping out of college I became, for the next 15 years, a chef and then a hotel manager. Eventually I finished my undergraduate degree and earned a, yes, 4.25 GPA. Why? Because what I gained over those years as a chef and hotel manager was an elevated set of executive functions never taught to me when I was in this thing we call “school.” Evan Beachy, a senior strategist at one of the largest independent schools in the country, is the reason I have Mitch on the show today, and he had this to say for this episode: “I first met Mitch a couple of years ago, through a mutual friend. Though we’ve been meeting monthly ever since to dive into our work, ideas, personal and professional struggles, and engage in general intellectual discourse on education, we have never met in person. But our connection runs deep. Mitch is a snowboarder, a runner, a father, an entrepreneur, an author, and a connector. In a world where we must embrace technology, analog interaction and the hands-on practice of building resiliency is more important than ever. Thus, Mitch’s work with executive functioning is vitally important; far more important than mere content or scope and sequence. Studentship, the habits and practices of being a student - executive functioning in neuro-scientific parlance - are more vital than ever in today’s educational landscape and Mitch is among those leading the charge". A principal at Sequoia High School in CA wrote the following about Mitch: “My first interactions with Mitch were when he was a new teacher in our district and I was his BTSA support provider. I remember being struck from the start by what an incredibly gifted educator he already was. Mitch not only put much time into planning his classroom instruction so that he maximized learning and minimized distractions, but he was also able to successfully convey these goals to kids. Every lesson began with the end in mind and students were given clear steps as to how to fulfill the day’s objectives. Every lesson closed with students writing about what they had learned that day and Mitch would use these writings to inform the next day’s instruction. Equal only to Mitch’s sound pedagogy is his ability to work with students. In short, he is a kid whisperer. Mitch consistently treats his students with the respect due to scholars and they respond in turn. From kids who end up at Stanford, to those who will be the first in their family to graduate from high school, all students love Mitch and strive to do well in his care.” Editing for this episode is provided by the amazing and talented Evan Kurohara. Our theme music comes from the vast catalog of pianist, Michael Sloan.

I am totally stoked to welcome to the show Mahealani Jackson, a remarkable 17-year-old senior at Kamehameha Schools in Honolulu. Joining as my color commentator is Hannah Grady Williams, Chief Rebel at d'Skills, who alerted me to this extraordinary young person who was part of her first all-virtual IMPACT10 cohort powering up kids on AI. Mahealani's journey is nothing short of extraordinary. Despite her young age, she has already lived experiences equivalent to multiple lifetimes. From her early years as a skilled planner of Disneyland trips with her parents to her current pursuit of graduating from high school and college simultaneously, Mahealani's story is one of determination, resilience and incredible self awareness. In Hawaiʻi where this show originates, we have a saying: Ma Ka Hana Ka Ike: in doing one learns. Mahealani lives and breathes and walks in the light of this proverb. In today’s conversation we delve into Mahealani's philosophy of life, shaped significantly by Joseph Murphy's book, The Power of Your Subconscious Mind. Murphy’s book has influenced Mahealani’s approach to success and her refusal to be limited by others' achievements. Mahealani also shares insights into her educational experiences, highlighting two influential Kamehameha Schools teachers who fostered her growth mindset and created memorable learning environments. As a participant in the first all-virtual d'Skills IMPACT10 program, which took place in early 2024 when she was only 16, Mahealani has subsequently developed core skills that make her an instant asset to any company. Her drive for efficiency and unique approach to tasks, even those unfamiliar to her, set her apart. However, Mahealani also candidly discusses the challenges she faces, expressing that school has become "a burden to my dreams, not a supporter." Ouch, these words hurt my heart. Today’s conversation also explores Mahealani's thoughts on college preparation, her vision for a Student Bill of Rights, and her perspective on the role of AI in education, among other topics. She shares her experience helping her boyfriend build a ChatGPT bot for his nursing studies, demonstrating her forward-thinking approach to technology in learning, and her deeply layered humanist tendencies. Throughout this conversation, listeners, Mahealani's self-awareness, critical thinking, and passion for learning will knock you out. Her story offers an open window into what school could be, and what could be school as seen through the eyes of an exceptional learner who is actively shaping her own educational journey and breaking out of the box that is traditional education, which we know tends to crush creativity and imagination. And as frosting on the cake, you will hear previous guest, Hannah Grady Williams chime in with her insights on Mahealani, much like a one-person Greek chorus. Frankly, Mahealani, Hannah and I had way too much fun doing this live to tape interview at the the Mike and Sandy Hartley Math, Science & Technology Complex, podcast studio at Mid-Pacific Institute in Honolulu, Hawaiʻi. As always, this episode was engineered by Evan Kurohara. My thanks to Jon Pennington at MPI for helping to arrange for studio time. 

Listeners, I could not be more excited to share with you that my guest for this episode is Dr. Kyra Monèt Caldwell Templeton. Currently, she is Program Director of Student Engagement, an inaugural position with the Atlanta Public Schools, which serves over 50,000 students in 195 schools with nearly 4000 teachers. Remarkably, the student-teacher ratio in the Atlantic public schools is a very low 12.6. An important caveat here: for this episode Dr. Caldwell Templeton is not speaking on behalf of the Atlanta public school system. Dr. Caldwell Templeton's journey in education includes degrees from Spelman College, Capella University, Georgia State University and Mercer University. Any walk through her resume will result in you knowing, listeners, for sure, that she is a passionate lifelong learner. Her teaching journey includes positions at Cobb County’s Sprayberry High school, the KIPP Atlanta Collegiate High School, McEachern High School, also in Cobb County, and Marietta City Schools. Along the way she co-founded Radiant Educational Services, LLC, a national educational empowerment consulting group that provides customized professional development, coaching, strategic planning, curriculum design and evaluation for academic and non-profit institutions. She has also been an advocate for professional development. She was awarded the National Council for Teachers of English, Teacher of Color Award and has presented at several county, regional, and statewide professional development initiatives in which she discussed Performance Assessment, Writing Across the Curriculum, Grammar Integration in the Literature Classroom, Multi-Modal Instruction, as well as other relevant educational topics. Editing for this podcast is provided by the talented Evan Kurohara. Our theme music is from the catalog of master pianist, Michael Sloan. Please leave us a review and rating wherever you get your podcasts!

[During this episode reference is made to the work of mural artist, Dave Loewenstein. Here is his work.] At the Global Nomads Group website their vision, mission and about begins with this paragraph: “In 1998, four college friends had an idea to connect young people across the globe to foster dialogue and forge meaningful connections. They had heard about the emergence of video conferencing technology and thought maybe they could use it to link classrooms.” What happened over the next decades, listeners, is the subject of this episode. My guest today is Sandra Stein, Chief of Programs and Learning at the Global Nomads Group. Sandra is a passionate educator, writer, scholar, and justice advocate who leads staff and youth in the design, delivery, and assessment of Global Nomads Group’s unique programs. She is the author of two books on education policy and practice, and her writing has appeared in leading periodicals. She has a doctorate in Education from Stanford University and a long and deep teaching resume. The best way to introduce Sandra to you, listeners, is to use the words of individuals who have written about her. A program coordinator in Korea wrote, “One of her exceptional skills is her ability to tackle heavy topics such as bias and women's rights in such an effortless manner, sustaining everyone’s engagement and nurturing discussions. Her extensive knowledge and experience in curriculum development and instructional material design ignited a passion in me to dig deeper in this path. Dr. Sandra is one of those once in a lifetime individuals who come into your life and help you reach a reckoning by dissecting your life, your biases, and infusing you with energy to reach for your potential.” A former programs coordinator at Global Nomads had this to say about Sandra: “Beyond her technical and leadership skills, Sandra has a unique talent for fostering an inclusive and collaborative environment. She introduced me to the world of accessibility, teaching me how to ensure that all the content I create, the language I use, and the way I live are as accommodating and inclusive as possible. I learned about the impact of ableism and how it can affect the lives of those around me, and I carry this knowledge with me wherever I go.” And finally, a student who first met Sandra at Grinnell College said this: “What stands out most about Sandra is her unique approach to feedback. She has a way of making every conversation feel like a two-way dialogue, where both parties are learning and growing. Sandra is direct and honest, but her feedback never feels harsh or discouraging. Instead, she has a remarkable ability to frame constructive criticism as part of a broader, thoughtful discussion. She always takes the time to understand the effort and thought behind the work, valuing the person just as much as the final product. Her feedback isn’t just about what needs improvement—it’s about recognizing potential and encouraging growth, which made every interaction with her feel empowering and insightful." Our show's audio engineer is the talented Evan Kurohara. Our theme music comes from the vast catalog of master pianist, Michael Sloan.