The Bleeders: about book writing & publishing

Welcome, writers and book lovers. The Bleeders is a podcast about book writing and publishing. Make sure you subscribe to the companion Substack: https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcomeToday’s guest is Brad Listi, author of Be Brief and Tell Them Everything, host of the long-running Otherppl podcast, and founder of the new literary learning platform Deep Dive. After decades in the business, Brad has a delightfully candid perspective on what it takes to build a writing career these days—and why talent and hard work are only part of the equation.In this episode, Brad takes us through his publishing journey, from his MFA and selling his debut novel in his twenties to launching the influential literary community The Nervous Breakdown, building an audience through podcasting, and writing his latest book, Be Brief and Tell Them Everything. We get into rejection, the myth that platform automatically translates into book sales, and the financial realities of being a writer.Plus, Brad shares what 1,000 author interviews have taught him, why reading should be part of the job, and his unfiltered advice for writers trying to get published.Subscribe to Brad's Substack and listen to the Otherppl podcast. Follow him on Instagram @otherppl.podcast, and buy your copy of Be Brief and Tell Them Everything on Bookshop.org, Amazon, or wherever books are sold!Get your copy of Courtney's debut memoir Girl Gone Wild from ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Bookshop.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Amazon⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.The Bleeders is hosted by Courtney Kocak. Follow her on Instagram @courtneykocak and Bluesky @courtneykocak.bsky.social. For more, check out her website courtneykocak.com.Courtney is teaching some upcoming classes you might be interested in:How to Build a “Platform” for Writers Who Shudder at the Thought: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminarStart a Newsletter to Supercharge Your Platform, Network and Business: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminarLand Big Bylines by Writing for Columns: https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminarHow to Make 2027 Your Best Writing Year Yet: Manifest Your Writing Goals Seminar: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-make-2027-your-best-writing-year-yet-manifest-your-writing-goals-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocakSo You Want to Start a Podcast?: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-podcast-workshop-courtney-kocakEdit & Elevate: Revision Intensive: https://writingworkshops.com/products/edit-elevate-revision-intensive-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak

Welcome, writers and book lovers. The Bleeders is a podcast about book writing and publishing. Make sure you subscribe to the companion Substack: https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcomeToday’s guest is novelist and essayist Emily J. Smith, author of the debut novel Nothing Serious. After years of writing, rewriting, and more than 100 agent rejections across two novels, Emily finally found the agent who understood her vision—and sold her debut to a Big Five publisher within weeks.In this episode, Emily pulls back the curtain on her long road to publication, including why she abandoned her first novel, what she learned from agent feedback, and how embracing plot and suspense helped her break into publishing without sacrificing her literary ambitions. We get into working with a developmental editor, landing a Big Five deal, advances and rights, the emotional minefield of cover design, and what publishers actually do—and don’t do—for debut authors. Emily also shares the realities of funding your own book tour and publicity, building a platform when you hate social media, growing her Substack, and the personalized outreach that helped generate press and word of mouth.Plus, Emily reflects on the widening gap between blockbuster books and smaller deals, why getting a traditional book deal can feel more like a foot in the door than a guarantee of support, and the publishing lesson she wishes she’d learned sooner.Subscribe to Emily's Substack Unresolving. Follow her on Instagram @emjsmith, and buy your copy of Nothing Serious on Bookshop.org, Amazon, or wherever books are sold!Get your copy of Courtney's debut memoir Girl Gone Wild from ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Bookshop.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Amazon⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.The Bleeders is hosted by Courtney Kocak. Follow her on Instagram @courtneykocak and Bluesky @courtneykocak.bsky.social. For more, check out her website courtneykocak.com.Courtney is teaching some upcoming classes you might be interested in:The Multi-Passionate Writer's Life: https://writingworkshops.com/products/the-multi-passionate-writers-life-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak12 Months to a Full Memoir in Essays Incubator: Write Your Memoir in a Year: https://writingworkshops.com/products/memoir-in-essays-incubator-nonfiction-writing-workshop-online-june-2026How to Build a “Platform” for Writers Who Shudder at the Thought: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminarStart a Newsletter to Supercharge Your Platform, Network and Business: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminarLand Big Bylines by Writing for Columns: https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminarHow to Make 2027 Your Best Writing Year Yet: Manifest Your Writing Goals Seminar: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-make-2027-your-best-writing-year-yet-manifest-your-writing-goals-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocakSo You Want to Start a Podcast?: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-podcast-workshop-courtney-kocakEdit & Elevate: Revision Intensive: https://writingworkshops.com/products/edit-elevate-revision-intensive-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak

Welcome, writers and book lovers. The Bleeders is a podcast about book writing and publishing. Make sure you subscribe to the companion Substack: https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcomeToday’s guest is author, writing coach, and sobriety expert Tawny Lara, the author of Dry Humping: A Guide to Dating, Relating, and Hooking Up Without the Booze.In this episode, Tawny pulls back the curtain on her publishing journey—from blogging and viral essays to finding an agent, switching from memoir to more journalistic nonfiction, completely rewriting her proposal, and ultimately selling her book. We get into querying, indie publishing vs. the Big Five, advances, audiobooks, and DIY book publicity. She also shares why every writer needs a newsletter, how she built an effective Substack strategy, the publicity tactics that landed her major media coverage, and why tapping into your existing network is often more powerful than chasing social media algorithms.Plus, Tawny explains how she sold a sobriety card deck to Penguin Random House, why rejection is an essential part of every publishing career, and the simple writing advice that transformed her creative practice.Subscribe to Tawny's Substack Beyond Liquid Courage. Follow her on Instagram @tawnymlara, and buy your copy of Dry Humping on Bookshop.org, Amazon, or wherever books are sold!Get your copy of Courtney's debut memoir Girl Gone Wild from ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Bookshop.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Amazon⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.The Bleeders is hosted by Courtney Kocak. Follow her on Instagram @courtneykocak and Bluesky @courtneykocak.bsky.social. For more, check out her website courtneykocak.com.Courtney is teaching some upcoming classes you might be interested in:Midsummer Pitch Party: https://www.courtneykocak.com/store/midsummerpitchpartySo You Want to Start a Podcast?: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-podcast-workshop-courtney-kocakEdit & Elevate: Revision Intensive: https://writingworkshops.com/products/edit-elevate-revision-intensive-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocakThe Multi-Passionate Writer's Life: https://writingworkshops.com/products/the-multi-passionate-writers-life-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak12 Months to a Full Memoir in Essays Incubator: Write Your Memoir in a Year: https://writingworkshops.com/products/memoir-in-essays-incubator-nonfiction-writing-workshop-online-june-2026How to Build a “Platform” for Writers Who Shudder at the Thought: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminarStart a Newsletter to Supercharge Your Platform, Network and Business: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminarLand Big Bylines by Writing for Columns: https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminar

Welcome, writers and book lovers. The Bleeders is a podcast about book writing and publishing. Make sure you subscribe to the companion Substack: https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcomeToday’s guest is publishing expert, author, and newsletter pioneer Jane Friedman, a 25+ year industry veteran and the author of The Business of Being a Writer. She talks candidly about how the publishing industry has transformed in the creator economy era—and why building a sustainable writing career today requires far more than just landing a book deal.In this episode, Jane breaks down the transformative shifts reshaping publishing, from the rise of Substack, TikTok, and direct-to-reader marketing to the growing legitimacy of self-publishing and hybrid publishing models. We get into why entrepreneurial authors are thriving, how video platforms are driving book sales in surprising ways, and why newsletters and email lists remain one of the most powerful tools for writers. We also talk about platform building, ownership and rights, bestseller lists, audiobook strategy, and how today’s authors are thinking differently about control, distribution, and long-term career sustainability.Plus, Jane shares her nuanced take on AI’s growing role in publishing—from the ethical outrage surrounding copyrighted training data to the practical ways writers are already using AI for research, brainstorming, and marketing support, and why writers who completely ignore AI may eventually put themselves at a disadvantage.Subscribe to Jane's industry newsletter The Bottom Line. Follow her on Instagram @janefriedman, and buy your copy of The Business of Being a Writer on Bookshop.org, Amazon, or wherever books are sold!Get your copy of Courtney's debut memoir Girl Gone Wild from ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Bookshop.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Amazon⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.The Bleeders is hosted by Courtney Kocak. Follow her on Instagram @courtneykocak and Bluesky @courtneykocak.bsky.social. For more, check out her website courtneykocak.com.Courtney is teaching some upcoming classes you might be interested in:How to Build a “Platform” for Writers Who Shudder at the Thought: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminarStart a Newsletter to Supercharge Your Platform, Network and Business: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminar12 Months to a Full Memoir in Essays Incubator: Write Your Memoir in a Year: https://writingworkshops.com/products/memoir-in-essays-incubator-nonfiction-writing-workshop-online-june-2026Land Big Bylines by Writing for Columns: https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminarSo You Want to Start a Podcast?: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-podcast-workshop-courtney-kocakEdit & Elevate: Revision Intensive: https://writingworkshops.com/products/edit-elevate-revision-intensive-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocakThe Multi-Passionate Writer's Life: https://writingworkshops.com/products/the-multi-passionate-writers-life-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak

Welcome, writers and book lovers. The Bleeders is a podcast about book writing and publishing. Make sure you subscribe to the companion Substack: https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcomeToday’s guest is Antonia Crane, author, academic, and one of my all-time favorite memoirists. In this special episode, the tables are turned as Antonia interviews me about my debut memoir Girl Gone Wild, and we get into what it actually takes to write a book over 15 years and finally share it with the world.We talk about the long, nonlinear road from first essay to finished memoir, including incubators with Chloe Caldwell, revising through many drafts, and why sometimes you have to write an entire version of a book just to figure out what it isn’t. We also get into structure, how trusting your gut can be more important than following industry expectations, the difference between factual accuracy and emotional truth, the challenge of fact-checking your own life, and why writing about the past often means confronting the parts you’ve tried hardest to forget. We discuss “dark teachers,” perfectionism, and the complicated process of making meaning out of tough experiences like addiction, abusive relationships, and sexual trauma.Plus, we get into sex work, feminism, the male gaze, and the cultural forces shaping Girl Gone Wild—from growing up in small-town Minnesota to chasing Hollywood dreams and encountering its underbelly.Subscribe to Antonia's Substack Meow Town. Follow her on Instagram @antoniacrane, and buy your copy of her amazing memoir Spent on Bookshop.org, or wherever books are sold!Get your copy of Courtney's debut memoir Girl Gone Wild from ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Bookshop.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Amazon⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.The Bleeders is hosted by Courtney Kocak. Follow her on Instagram @courtneykocak and Bluesky @courtneykocak.bsky.social. For more, check out her website courtneykocak.com.Courtney is teaching some upcoming workshops you might be interested in:The Multi-Passionate Writer's Life: https://writingworkshops.com/products/the-multi-passionate-writers-life-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocakHow to Build a “Platform” for Writers Who Shudder at the Thought: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminarStart a Newsletter to Supercharge Your Platform, Network and Business: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminar12 Months to a Full Memoir in Essays Incubator: Write Your Memoir in a Year: https://writingworkshops.com/products/memoir-in-essays-incubator-nonfiction-writing-workshop-online-june-2026Land Big Bylines by Writing for Columns: https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminarSo You Want to Start a Podcast?: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-podcast-workshop-courtney-kocak