Narelle Fraser Interviews

I’d never met or spoken with Robin (Rob) Bailey until a few weeks ago. Rob had been a member of Victoria Police for almost 30 years but our paths never crossed. He retired at the rank of Chief Inspector after working in some of the toughest squads, including the Armed Robbers. You wouldn’t normally associate toughness with Fraud, but today you will learn what it takes to be a top investigator and it doesn’t necessarily involve murders &and rapes. Rob was a specialist Forensic Fraud Investigator and did an aggregate of 11 years with the VicPol Fraud Squad at 3 ranks. Today he takes us into a complicated, what he describes as a “basically uninvestigable” messy file he was handed and asked to have a look at, which contained a plethora of fraudulent insurance claims, false personal injury claims, kickbacks & many more twists & turns.  Apart from this ‘basically uninvestigable’ file, for which 17 people were ultimately charged, Rob was involved in many high profile investigations including being a vital (and seriously injured) witness to the Russell Street bombing outside the Police station in March 1986, he was part of an Australian peacekeeping mission for the 1974 Turkish invasion of Cyprus, he’s authored a book “So you Want to be a Policeman Eh" & so much more I frankly don’t have the time to share with you. Not surprisingly, Rob, like so many other Police, still bears the mental scars of his time as a Policeman and has become a fierce advocate for those who don’t have a voice or can’t find one. He’s not out of the woods, like many of us, but has learned to manage his mental health. Rob believes many deaths of Police veterans may not be as innocuous as initially determined which is why he is so passionate in reaching out to members who’ve retired, often broken, never having admitted it to their families & loved ones, let alone themselves, that ‘the job’ has damaged them.  There’s so many investigations I’d love to chat to Rob about and I’m sure we’ll have Rob back, but today we’re going to talk about that fascinating, intriguing fraud investigation I touched on before.   Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

You wouldn’t believe that we’re recording this the day after the Victims of Crime Commissioner here in Victoria released her report titled ‘Silenced and Sidelined” which was a disturbing report/insight into how victims of crime are treated by the justice system – from their initial report to Police through to their experience in the court system and how we can improve that experience.  It was disturbing reading.  My guest today Tammy Casselson’s story just highlights and confirms what the Victim of Crime Commission found in her report.  What REALLY frustrates me is the fact that since 2016 there have been 7 reports into how victims are treated in the justice system and what can be done to improve their experience.  With all due respect to Fiona McCormack, the Victims of Crime Commissioner, nothing seems to have changed.  We just seem to be going round & round in circles.  And Tammy’s story is proof of that……………Tammy Casseslon had it all – or so it appeared.  A carefree, happy childhood, happy upbringing, meets Mr Handsome, Mr Popular, Mr Nice Guy, Mr Life of the Party who also had a carefree happy childhood & happy upbringing. A happy life, right??!!  Tammy & her husband had 2 adorable children and everything just seemed perfect. But behind closed doors Tammy didn’t “have it all”.  She was frightened.  Her husband’s behaviour was becoming more unpredictable – his bursts of anger, his yelling, his insults & his threats, not only towards her, but their children.Mr Handsome had become Mr Narcissist, Mr Abusive, Mr Vindictive, Mr Controlling, Mr Demeaning.   Like so many other survivors of D&FV, Tammy made excuses for his behaviour, not recognising or understanding the seriousness of his increasingly violent behaviour.  It wasn’t until an ill-fated attempt at taking his own life and ending up in hospital, Tammy found the courage to leave.  That’s when she realised his abuse had included financial abuse & discovered their finances were in shatters, non-existent.  He’d kept it secret from her that they had nothing – and Tammy and her children were homeless.  But homelessness was a safer option than staying. How does a successful, educated professional woman with a background in counselling, psychology, & teaching become homeless?Tammy was dragged through the court system where all the games her husband could have played, he did – along with his legal representatives whom she felt belittled and intimidated by.Tammy’s husband eventually did end his life but left a lot of heartache & “what ifs”.  ‘What if’ they could have tried some type of amicable reconciliation, ‘what if’ their children & their father could have mended some of the damaged relationship, ‘what if’ he’d sought some help – his death became a senseless  void unable to be filled.  All because he refused to seek help.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

You wouldn’t believe that we’re recording this the day after the Victims of Crime Commissioner here in Victoria released her report titled ‘Silenced & Sidelined” which was a disturbing report/insight into how victims of crime are treated by the justice system – from their initial report to Police through to their experience in the court system & how we can improve that experience. It was disturbing reading. My guest today Tammy Casselson’s story just highlights & confirms what the Victim of Crime Commission found in her report. What REALLY frustrates me is the fact that since 2016 there have been 7 reports into how victims are treated in the justice system & what can be done to improve their experience. With all due respect to Fiona McCormack, the Victims of Crime Commissioner, nothing seems to have changed. We just seem to be going round & round in circles. And Tammy’s story is proof of that……………Tammy Casseslon had it all – or so it appeared. A carefree, happy childhood, happy upbringing, meets Mr Handsome, Mr Popular, Mr Nice Guy, Mr Life of the Party who also had a carefree happy childhood & happy upbringing. A happy life, right??!! Tammy & her husband had 2 adorable children & everything just seemed perfect. But behind closed doors Tammy didn’t “have it all”. She was frightened. Her husband’s behaviour was becoming more unpredictable – his bursts of anger, his yelling, his insults & his threats, not only towards her, but their children.Mr Handsome had become Mr Narcissist, Mr Abusive, Mr Vindictive, Mr Controlling, Mr Demeaning.  Like so many other survivors of D&FV, Tammy made excuses for his behaviour, not recognising or understanding the seriousness of his increasingly violent behaviour. It wasn’t until an ill-fated attempt at taking his own life & ending up in hospital, Tammy found the courage to leave. That’s when she realised his abuse had included financial abuse & discovered their finances were in shatters, non-existent. He’d kept it secret from her that they had nothing – & Tammy & her children were homeless. But homelessness was a safer option than staying. How does a successful, educated professional woman with a background in counselling, psychology, & teaching become homeless?Tammy was dragged through the court system where all the games her husband could have played, he did – along with his legal representatives whom she felt belittled & intimidated by.Tammy’s husband eventually did end his life but left a lot of heartache & “what ifs”. ‘What if’ they could have tried some type of amicable reconciliation, ‘what if’ their children & their father could have mended some of the damaged relationship, ‘what if’ he’d sought some help – his death became a senseless void unable to be filled. All because he refused to seek help.   Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Last year I interviewed Peter ‘Lucky’ Lukaitis a Policeman from Castlemaine, who was involved in a siege at Kangaroo Flat, here in Victoria, where 4 Police were shot (thankfully all survived). There were many heroic efforts on this day which have resulted in a number of bravery awards, not only for Police, but also members of the public who put their own lives at risk to assist Police who had been shot and lay injured, unable to move. After a 19hr stand off, the SOG were deployed and located the gunman, John Wason, deceased in his home after turning his gun on himself.  One of the Policeman shot (not once but twice) was Senior Constable Peter Eames, my guest today. Peter was one of the first to arrive at the scene & was attempting to converse with the gunman when he was shot, first in the chest & then in his leg.  Miraculously Peter survived, as did the other 4 Police who were subsequently shot.   This siege remains the single largest number of Police shot in the one incident in Victoria’s history.  But on talking to Peter, the siege pales into insignificance (would you believe) compared with the trauma and grief he endured in Egypt on 12th January 2006.  Peter was part of a 90 strong contingent of Australians, made up of police and emergency workers and their friends and relatives, who were on a professional and cultural exchange with Egyptian police, organised through the Egyptian Federation of Victoria and organised twice a year since 1990. Peter was on a bus which overturned on a desert road around 45k from Cairo where 6 people died, 2 of those being Peter’s B-I-L Mark and nephew Drew. Many more were injured. Peter miraculously survived (again!!) and was taken to Cairo hospital for treatment for broken bones/ribs, cuts and bruises.Welcome Peter and thanks so much for your time Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Last year I interviewed Peter ‘Lucky’ Lukaitis a Policeman from Castlemaine, who was involved in a siege at Kangaroo Flat, here in Victoria, where 4 Police were shot (thankfully all survived). There were many heroic efforts on this day which have resulted in a number of bravery awards, not only for Police, but also members of the public who put their own lives at risk to assist Police who had been shot and lay injured, unable to move. After a 19hr stand off, the SOG were deployed and located the gunman, John Wason, deceased in his home after turning his gun on himself.  One of the Policeman shot (not once but twice) was Senior Constable Peter Eames, my guest today. Peter was one of the first to arrive at the scene & was attempting to converse with the gunman when he was shot, first in the chest & then in his leg.  Miraculously Peter survived, as did the other 4 Police who were subsequently shot.   This siege remains the single largest number of Police shot in the one incident in Victoria’s history.  But on talking to Peter, the siege pales into insignificance (would you believe) compared with the trauma and grief he endured in Egypt on 12th January 2006.  Peter was part of a 90 strong contingent of Australians, made up of police and emergency workers and their friends and relatives, who were on a professional and cultural exchange with Egyptian police, organised through the Egyptian Federation of Victoria and organised twice a year since 1990. Peter was on a bus which overturned on a desert road around 45k from Cairo where 6 people died, 2 of those being Peter’s B-I-L Mark and nephew Drew. Many more were injured. Peter miraculously survived (again!!) and was taken to Cairo hospital for treatment for broken bones/ribs, cuts and bruises.Welcome Peter and thanks so much for your time Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Kathleen Folbigg was convicted for the deaths of her 4 young children (all babies) in NSW over a 10 year period and in 2003 was convicted of the murder of 3 of them and manslaughter of one child. Always maintaining her innocence, she was initially sentenced to 40yrs in prison (reduced to 30yrs on appeal) however after 2 decades in jail, she was pardoned and in Dec 2023 had her convictions quashed following a judicial inquiry that found there was reasonable doubt with regard to her guilt. That finding was informed by new scientific evidence that had been unavailable at the time of her trial and other crucial evidence relating to Folbigg’s diaries which were presented by the prosecution as akin to confessions.We’ll chat a little about this case but what I’m more interested in is how Dr Williams feels about the way media cover criminal processes such as Kathleen Folbigg’s trials, how they portray criminals and the influence (and danger) they can have in swaying public opinion. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Kathleen Folbigg was convicted for the deaths of her 4 young children (all babies) in NSW over a 10 year period and in 2003 was convicted of the murder of 3 of them and manslaughter of one child. Always maintaining her innocence, she was initially sentenced to 40yrs in prison (reduced to 30yrs on appeal) however after 2 decades in jail, she was pardoned and in Dec 2023 had her convictions quashed following a judicial inquiry that found there was reasonable doubt with regard to her guilt. That finding was informed by new scientific evidence that had been unavailable at the time of her trial and other crucial evidence relating to Folbigg’s diaries which were presented by the prosecution as akin to confessions.We’ll chat a little about this case but what I’m more interested in is how Dr Williams feels about the way media cover criminal processes such as Kathleen Folbigg’s trials, how they portray criminals and the influence (and danger) they can have in swaying public opinion. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Kathleen Folbigg was convicted for the deaths of her 4 young children (all babies) in NSW over a 10 year period and in 2003 was convicted of the murder of 3 of them and manslaughter of one child. Always maintaining her innocence, she was initially sentenced to 40yrs in prison (reduced to 30yrs on appeal) however after 2 decades in jail, she was pardoned and in Dec 2023 had her convictions quashed following a judicial inquiry that found there was reasonable doubt with regard to her guilt. That finding was informed by new scientific evidence that had been unavailable at the time of her trial and other crucial evidence relating to Folbigg’s diaries which were presented by the prosecution as akin to confessions. We’ll chat a little about this case but what I’m more interested in is how Dr Williams feels about the way media cover criminal processes such as Kathleen Folbigg’s trials, how they portray criminals and the influence (and danger) they can have in swaying public opinion. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Kane Nuttall’s story isn’t, unfortunately, all that unusual. As a teenager he struggled to fit in on many levels. He was overweight and hence got bullied. He suffered severe acne which resulted in embarrassment and humiliation. Being a teenager is difficult enough, but with these added pressures, he couldn’t escape his feelings of helplessness and hopelessness. With his self confidence and self worth shattered, he began to slide into a deep depression and as his stress and anxiety increased, so did his depression.  With everything falling down around him, he fell in with the wrong crowd, trying to fit in anywhere he could and was introduced to drugs.  Soon he started to rely on those drugs to feel better & before he knew it, he was dependent on them, being unable to function without them. He lost his will to be anything but a drug addict. And for 12 years he abused his body & his mind, in an almost full-time haze, not caring about anyone or anything, other than where his next hit was coming from. He also tried to end his life, such was that hopelessless and helplessness. The only reason he didn’t end up in jail was but for a stroke of luck – and he’s never forgotten how ‘lucky’ he was the day the house he was living in (which he describes as ‘the drug house’) was raided by Police. Had he been home, he probably would have ended up like the others – being charged and facing court and jail time.    But what IS unusual about Kane is that he beat his addiction to meth, ice and any other drug he could get his hands on, but it wasn’t easy. With his family’s support he somehow found a reason to live and he realised he’d been given a second chance and decided to help and support others who’d been in his position and founded an amazing organization – The Power in You.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

One of the best things about doing my podcast is discovering people who’ve never thought of sharing their story because 1) they didn’t think anyone would be interested 2) they thought there were others who were doing it tougher than them 3) they had never had the opportunity to tell their story or didn’t think they had the courage. Today’s guest Michael (not his real name) is that person. Michael sent me a brief message after having read an article about me somewhere. Part of his message read “I want to express my thanks for your work. I can only guess about how hard it was. I write this as an older survivor of childhood abuse confidentially”. Funny how that last word has just been thrown out the window and cast aside by me!! Confidential!!!!– trust me Michael!!! Your secret is safe with me!! I responded and said if he ever felt like talking about it, I’ve found many of my guests who’ve never told their story before, find it cathartic and their stories often helps others in the comfort of knowing they are not alone. I can be pretty persuasive and he finally relented!!! Michael has such a great attitude considering his father was jailed for offences committed upon him and his siblings, one of which ended their life as a teenager with Michael never knowing (and never wanting to know) if they too had been abused by their father. It is no surprise that this abuse had a devastating effect on Michael and his family, with relationships fractured and ruined forever. Michael said to me in one phone conversation he was thankful he put his father in jail because “it gave him another 10 yrs of life” which he wouldn’t have had, had he not been incarcerated.  If you don’t mind me saying, that’s very forgiving and I don’t think there’d be too many others out there as forgiving. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Giles was Prison Officer with Corrections Victoria for 12 years.for 6 of these years he worked in the Operations Team for Corrections Victoria Intelligence Unit. His role was to investigate prison offences, drug trafficking into prisons, disrupt prison gang activity, investigate staff misconduct and to provide intelligence information to law enforcement agencies. Giles discovered a love of investigating and has recently landed a great role as an investigator for another government organisation.But it is his role within Corrections Victoria we are going to talk about today. His inside knowledge of many prisoners we have all heard about through the media is fascinating, with his role as case manager requiring him to talk and interact with them and support them in a way. He gives us an insight into their personalities and what it was like dealing with some of Australia’s most dangerous criminals. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Giles was Prison Officer with Corrections Victoria for 12 years.for 6 of these years he worked in the Operations Team for Corrections Victoria Intelligence Unit. His role was to investigate prison offences, drug trafficking into prisons, disrupt prison gang activity, investigate staff misconduct and to provide intelligence information to law enforcement agencies. Giles discovered a love of investigating and has recently landed a great role as an investigator for another government organisation.But it is his role within Corrections Victoria we are going to talk about today. His inside knowledge of many prisoners we have all heard about through the media is fascinating, with his role as case manager requiring him to talk and interact with them and support them in a way. He gives us an insight into their personalities and what it was like dealing with some of Australia’s most dangerous criminals. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Cameron Duncan was part of a hand-picked team of Victorian Detectives assigned to assist the Special Operations Group in arresting criminals, Archie Butterly & Peter Gibb, who, with the aid of Gibb’s secret lover, prison guard Heather Parker, escaped from the Melbourne Remand Centre in March 1993. Butterly despised Cameron & only days before their escape, had made a credible death threat to Cameron & his family, so upon his escape Cameron’s family were immediately evacuated to a safe house. Cameron’s decorated career came at a cost in many respects.  Cameron’s story is compelling. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Tania Maxwell was sexually abused as a child, which led to difficulties as a teenager, battling a gamut of emotions including depression, suicidal ideations and anxiety.  But as you’ll hear today, her philosophy has been since then, to learn something from every experience, both the good and bad. Tania found a purpose in her life – to become a victim advocate, but to also understand offending more, with a view to reducing it or even better, to ultimately prevent it. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Tania Maxwell was sexually abused as a child, which led to difficulties as a teenager, battling a gamut of emotions including depression, suicidal ideations and anxiety.  But as you’ll hear today, her philosophy has been since then, to learn something from every experience, both the good and bad. Tania found a purpose in her life – to become a victim advocate, but to also understand offending more, with a view to reducing it or even better, to ultimately prevent it. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Anastasia – endured physical, psychological and verbal abuse from her husband. A mother of two children, both of whom have learning difficulties. Anastasia herself had learning difficulties. She managed a highly successful business. A trailblazer! Helping young and vulnerable children. Throughout this she held a secret, she endured physical, psychological and verbal abuse from her husband, of which her children and some of her friends are witness to at times. After enduring years of lockdowns and having to temporarily close her business, her husband suddenly leaves and on the very day he chooses to leave is the day she chose re-open her business. And further, on that day she is served with an intervention order, citing extraordinary instances which she categorically denied and stated are untrue. But due to the protracted court appearances, stress on Anastasia and her children, anxiety and legal meetings/conferences and fees, she decided it is easier to agree to the Order without agreeing to the allegations, andso the order is granted for 3 yrs.  This is Anastasia’s extraordinary story. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Anastasia – endured physical, psychological and verbal abuse from her husband. A mother of two children, both of whom have learning difficulties. Anastasia herself had learning difficulties. She managed a highly successful business. A trailblazer! Helping young and vulnerable children. Throughout this she held a secret, she endured physical, psychological and verbal abuse from her husband, of which her children and some of her friends are witness to at times. After enduring years of lockdowns and having to temporarily close her business, her husband suddenly leaves and on the very day he chooses to leave is the day she chose re-open her business. And further, on that day she is served with an intervention order, citing extraordinary instances which she categorically denied and stated are untrue. But due to the protracted court appearances, stress on Anastasia and her children, anxiety and legal meetings/conferences and fees, she decided it is easier to agree to the Order without agreeing to the allegations, andso the order is granted for 3 yrs.  This is Anastasia’s extraordinary story. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Anastasia – endured physical, psychological and verbal abuse from her husband. A mother of two children, both of whom have learning difficulties. Anastasia herself had learning difficulties. She managed a highly successful business. A trailblazer! Helping young and vulnerable children. Throughout this she held a secret, she endured physical, psychological and verbal abuse from her husband, of which her children and some of her friends are witness to at times. After enduring years of lockdowns and having to temporarily close her business, her husband suddenly leaves and on the very day he chooses to leave is the day she chose re-open her business. And further, on that day she is served with an intervention order, citing extraordinary instances which she categorically denied and stated are untrue. But due to the protracted court appearances, stress on Anastasia and her children, anxiety and legal meetings/conferences and fees, she decided it is easier to agree to the Order without agreeing to the allegations, andso the order is granted for 3 yrs.  This is Anastasia’s extraordinary story. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

To recap, on October 14th 2022, my husband Lloyd and I experienced surviving a flood of mammoth, unheard of levels and the impact it had not only our life but so many others was huge. It’s like anything – unless you’ve experienced a similar situation to what others are going through you just can’t truly understand the impact something so major has on your life. Last year I told you how lost I felt, feeling like we’d lost everything when in fact we’d lost a lot but certainly not EVERYTHING. As at today’s date, 23rd November 2023 we are still not back in our house. There’s been progress, but its been painstakingly slow however I know there are people in Rochester where work hasn’t EVEN STARTED. How can that be possible? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Rob was a specialist Forensic Fraud Investigator and did an aggregate of 11 years with the VicPol Fraud Squad at 3 ranks. Today he takes us into a complicated, what he describes as a “basically uninvestigable” messy file he was handed and asked to have a look at, which contained a plethora of fraudulent insurance claims, false personal injury claims, kickbacks and many more twists and turns.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.