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© 2026 REFS NEED LOVE TOO
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An honest perspective from the 3rd team on the pitch... the referees. Through humor, analysis and education, we are slowly changing how people view referees and officials in all sports. We care and have a love for the game as much as any player or coach. Sometimes even more. Youth soccer (proper football) is a multi-billion $ industry in the US. Tremendous money is spent on players, competitions, travel etc., but almost nothing spent on developing the next generation of referees. I hope that this Podcast inspires, educates and humanizes the next generation of referees for their own development and appreciation from the players, coaches and spectators they need to work alongside.
101 Episodes
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Send a text A soldier-turned-official sets a six-year goal to reach the Premier League—and makes it! Then he does an even rarer thing: he stays for over 15 years! We sit down with Scott Ledger, a 500+ appearance Premier League Assistant Referee and FA Cup Final appointee, to unpack the craft behind elite officiating—how preparation, humility, and sharp eyes under pressure create credibility when tens of thousands are judging every move. Scott takes us inside the modern toolkit: pre-match dat...
Send a text Abusive sidelines don’t fix bad calls—and they’re driving referees out of the game. We sat down with U.S. Soccer’s Vice President of Referees, Kari Seitz, to break down how “Respect the Call” and Policy 531-9 are changing that story with clear standards, real accountability, and education designed for today’s crews. We start with the foundation: knowing the difference between a raw emotional reaction and dissent. That clarity matters because early, consistent action keeps matches...
Send a text Ever wonder what “clear and obvious” actually means when the stakes are high and the clock is running? We bring you a rare, candid look inside MLS video review with Greg Barkey, the head of VAR at PRO. Greg shares how the system was built in the United States—from early scrimmages with eight cameras at a local park to the first monitor review at Red Bull Arena—and why the guiding principle remains simple: to correct clear and obvious errors without re-refereeing the match. We dig...
Send a text Ever wonder what a referee actually says to defuse tenssions—or how it feels to make a split-second call with no assistants and 22 players demanding an answer? We sit down with Eric Edge, the former semi-pro goalkeeper behind the viral channel Behind The Whistle, to unpack the real craft of Sunday League officiating: honesty that cools tempers, foul selection that protects the game, and transparency that turns critics into collaborators. Eric explains why he films every match and...
Send a text This week, we have a true full-circle moment on the show. After listening to our recent episode with Kevin Klinger on referee mindset, Regional Referee Alex Perez sent in an incredible email about how he immediately applied those lessons during a grueling college showcase weekend. We were so moved by his story—and how he turned a potential on-field disaster into a success—that we immediately invited him on the pod to share his experience firsthand. Based in West Virginia, Alex is ...
Send a text Pressure doesn’t just come from the scoreboard—it lives in your head and your chest when the crowd roars and a coach questions your integrity. We sit down with Kevin Klinger, Director of Referee Education and Development at U.S. Officials and founder of Officials Mental Edge, to break down the mental skills that separate solid refs from truly elite officials. Kevin brings a rare dual lens as a longtime pro referee and licensed counselor, translating sports psychology into practica...
Send a text A year can include joy and pain without destroying you. In 2025, I said goodbye to my dad—the person I called on every big news story, new tech breakthrough, or small family win—and then rebuilt my life in a way he’d love to hear about. That mix of grief and momentum shaped everything: how I left about work, how I re-built my career, and how I chose where to invest my energy. The moment the fun drained out of a private equity‑owned, corporate job and the relief that came with cho...
Send a text Ever tried to judge a play from six feet off the ground with bodies flying past and zero replays? That’s where referees live, and it’s nothing like the view from the stands. We sit down with RefReps CEO Kyle Armstrong to explore how first‑person video, multi‑angle breakdowns, and short, high‑impact modules are rebuilding the referee pipeline and reshaping sports culture from the ground up. Kyle walks us through the origin story, the tech stack, and the classroom model that puts o...
Send a text Big games don’t get easier; you get better at carrying them. Ahead of my first State Cup final, I open up about nerves, preparation, and the quiet work that turns pressure into focus: fitness tuned for late sprints, gear and crew checks that prevent chaos, and a five-minute reset that keeps me in the match instead of in my head. The heart of the story is confidence earned over 1,500 matches and the decision to judge what’s in front of me, not the crowd around me. Howard Webb’s Th...
Send a text We sat down with Daneen Gonçalves, founder and chief visionary officer of The Referee Advocates, to unpack a simple idea with massive impact: treat referees like an integral and supported part of your club, build clear development pathways and watch the entire matchday experience improve. Danine brings decades as a player, coach, official and leadership professional, and she’s using that experience to help clubs become great places for referees to work and grow. We dig into the b...
Send a text Tired of holding your flag up for Offside, while the whole sideline screams “REF!”? We go straight at the problem and bring on engineer and referee Sam Rall, the creator of RareBit Offcial buzzer flags. He shows how a simple haptic signal can transform crew communication, reduce chaos, and keep matches flowing. David opens with the bigger picture—why innovation in referee education meets resistance from comfortable committees—and then we zoom into the design and decisions th...
Send a text The whistle isn’t the hard part. It’s the noise around it—sidelines boiling over, subtle bias that undermines authority, and those early games where one bad interaction can end a career before it starts. We sit down with rising official Mia Clark to talk about staying in the game, building real confidence, and why supporting women on the whistle changes everything. Mia traces her path from a 14-year-old assistant learning the lines in the rain to assignments in the USLW and high ...
Send a text Grief has a way of focusing the lens on what actually matters: how someone lived, how they treated those who couldn't fight back, and what they stood for even when it was unpopular. My dad never reffed, but he taught me everything about making life’s hardest decisions—kindness first, integrity always, and the courage to do the hard right thing when it counts. We trace a life well lived: European trips, science missions to Alaska and Hawaii, a deep love of national parks, and a Ne...
Send a text Landing my dream job as Director of Referee Programming and Development at SoCal Soccer League marks the culmination of a four-year journey that began when I started the Refs Need Love Too channel as a joke in 2021. What started as an escape from corporate burnout has transformed into a full-time opportunity to improve referee development across the largest soccer league in America, with over 4,400 teams and 40,000 players. This career shift represents everything I've been workin...
Send a text What does it take to officiate at the highest level of world soccer? Matthew Conger, who refereed at both the 2018 and 2022 FIFA World Cups, pulls back the curtain on the journey from grassroots to elite officiating in this fascinating conversation. Growing up as a goalkeeper in Georgia before eventually representing New Zealand on the international stage, Conger's unique path provides rare insights into what truly separates good referees from great ones. "Positioning and movemen...
Send a text What if the secret to transforming youth soccer wasn't silencing parents, but engaging them properly? In this eye-opening conversation, Skye Eddy, founder of SoccerParenting.com and "The Sideline Project" challenges the conventional wisdom about "crazy soccer parents" and reveals a path forward that benefits everyone in the youth sports ecosystem. The narrative that parents are the worst part of youth sports has dominated for too long. Skye argues that while the truly problematic...
Send a text What separates great referees from good ones isn't just knowledge of the laws—it's emotional intelligence. This deeply personal episode explores the challenging balance of life as a sports official while introducing a powerful mental framework called the "Let Them" theory from Mel Robbins." We begin with an intimate look at the struggle to balance a demanding marketing career, family transitions, and referee responsibilities. As my two oldest children prepare to leave for c...
Send a text Ever wonder why soccer fields seem to ignite emotions like few other places? In this eye-opening conversation, Dr. Ryan Martin – known as the Anger Professor – reveals the perfect psychological storm that makes pitches emotional pressure cookers. Dr. Martin challenges our fundamental understanding of anger, explaining it's not inherently negative but rather a signal of perceived injustice or goal-blocking. On the soccer field, this manifests when calls feel unfair or when someone...
Send a text Soccer's law book undergoes a mini-revolution with the 2025-2026 Laws of the Game, and referee Leland Grant, National Referee Coach and Umpiro founder, breaks down the four most significant changes poised to transform how matches unfold across all levels of play. The first major change introduces a powerful new tool for match officials: the captain-only zone. When surrounded by multiple players, referees can now signal for a four-meter exclusion zone where only the designated tea...
Send a text The Fresh Patch Podcast - Where Good Pets Get It. Welcome to the Fresh Patch Podcast where we talk about everything, from dog...Listen on: Apple Podcasts Support the show
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