Copper & Heat

Geraldine has started not one, but two international controversies with her blog "The Everywhereist." A three-time guest on Copper & Heat, we first chatted with her 5 years ago about imposter syndrome after winning a James Beard Award for her blog post about Mario Batali's cinnamon rolls, and then again 2 years ago after her blog post about her disastrous meal at Bros in Italy went viral. Geraldine's new book, "If You Can't Take the Heat: Tales of Food Feminism, and Fury" explores themes similar to those in her viral blog posts about the systemic challenges of being a woman working in food. In this interview, we talk about the challenges faced by women and non-binary individuals and the importance of speaking out against injustice. Geraldine shares her experiences with her viral blog post about Bros and the subsequent New York Times article, highlighting the biases and dismissive attitudes she encountered. The conversation delves into the pressure to perform a personal brand, as well as the experience of imposter syndrome.  For more from Geraldine: Buy her new bookHer websiteHer Instagram  |  Threads

In this episode, Katy talks with chefs Reem Assil of Reem’s California in San Francisco, and Carlo LaMagna of Magna Kusina in Portland, OR, and Magna Kubo in Beaverton. Reem is a Palestinian-Syrian chef and activist who was a semifinalist for the James Beard Foundation Best Chef West award in 2018 and ‘19 and a finalist for the Outstanding Chef award in 2022. She won a 2023 IACP award for her cookbook, Arabiyya: Recipes from an Arab in Diaspora. Carlo’s restaurants highlight modern Filipino cuisine, and he was named one of Food & Wine’s Best New Chefs in 2021. He was nominated for a 2022 James Beard Foundation Award for Best Chef: Northwest & Pacific.In this episode, Katy, Reem & Carlo talk about redefining success and failure, cultural and family pressures when cooking their food, and how they take care of themselves.We recorded this episode in collaboration with the Southern Smoke Foundation and Visit Houston. Southern Smoke exists to take care of our own. As a nonprofit founded and powered by current and past F&B workers, they’ve felt the heat of the industry firsthand. Their efforts are dedicated to creating a meaningful safety net of support that doesn’t exist for most people in our world. To learn more about their emergency relief and mental health programs, visit their website.  Reem AssilInstagram  |  Reem’s California  |  Her book, Arabiyya  | Hospitality for HumanityCarlo LamagnaInstagram  |  Magna Kusina  |  Magna KuboSouthern SmokeInstagram  |  Get Help  |  DonateVisit HoustonInstagram  |   Website

In this episode, Katy talks with chefs Ana Castro of Lengua Madre in New Orleans, and “G” Benchawan Painter from Street to Kitchen and Th_Prsrv in Houston. Ana was one of the 2022 Food & Wine Best New Chefs and Lengua Madre was a Bon Appetit 50 Best New Restaurant. G won the 2023 James Beard Award for Best Chef: Texas.In this episode, Katy, Ana, and G talk about dealing with bad customers and reviews, discussing mental health with family, and the different ways they support their team.We recorded this episode in collaboration with the Southern Smoke Foundation and Visit Houston. Southern Smoke exists to take care of our own. As a nonprofit founded and powered by current and past F&B workers, they’ve felt the heat of the industry firsthand. Their efforts are dedicated to creating a meaningful safety net of support that doesn’t exist for most people in our world. To learn more about their emergency relief and mental health programs, visit their website. Ana CastroInstagram  |  Lengua Madre  |  About her new projectG Benchawan PainterInstagram  |  Street to Kitchen  |  Th_PrsrvSouthern SmokeInstagram  |  Get Help  |  DonateVisit HoustonInstagram  |  Website

In this first episode, Katy talks with chef and co-owner Emmanuel Chavez of Tatemó in Houston. Emmanuel was recognized as one of the 2023 Food & Wine Best New Chefs, and Tatemó was named a finalist for the 2023 James Beard Foundation Award for Best New Restaurant. In this episode, Katy and Emmanuel talk about his journey to quitting drinking, the responsibilities of leading and taking care of your team, and the ways he stays grounded as Tatemó gains more media attention. We recorded this episode in collaboration with the Southern Smoke Foundation and Visit Houston. Southern Smoke exists to take care of our own. As a nonprofit founded and powered by current and past F&B workers, they’ve felt the heat of the industry firsthand. Their efforts are dedicated to creating a meaningful safety net of support that doesn’t exist for most people in our world. To learn more about their emergency relief and mental health programs, visit their website. Emmanuel ChavezInstagram  |  Website Southern SmokeInstagram  |  Get Help  |  Donate Visit HoustonInstagram |  Website

In this last episode of our 5 Year Reflection miniseries, we catch up with Kiah Fuller, co-owner of Far Out Catering in the Bay Area. Plus, we ask the question of all three of our interviewees: what's your biggest takeaway from the last 5 years? 

In this episode, we catch up with Courtney Moisant, former pastry chef of Manresa Restaurant, pastry consultant, and founder of soon-to-open Gelato Coco. When Manresa Restaurant closed for good at the end of 2022, she decided to leave fine dining for good to start her own thing, a trend that Katy & Rachel explore more in the later part of this episode. 

In this episode, we catch up with Edalyn Garcia. Of the 5 women we interviewed in Season 1, she is the only one still working full-time in restaurants and she's worked her way up to Executive Chef. Plus, Katy and Rachel get some updates on the stats of women working their way up the brigade in restaurants in the past 5 years. Last, we talk about why women chefs don't get as much media attention and funding when they are doing more innovative things to change the restaurant industry. The innovators that we mention in this episode: Telly Justice from HAGS in New YorkReem Assil of Reem's California in San FranciscoJenny Dorsey from Studio ATAO

Today's episode is from our friends over at The Sporkful. Zahra Tabatabai’s parents grew up in an Iran that would be unrecognizable today. “The pictures I see of my family in Iran in the sixties and seventies, they're in bikinis at the beach, drinking beer,” she says. Now, after the 1979 Islamic Revolution, women are legally required to wear hijabs and alcohol is banned. A few years ago, Zahra became interested in the long history of beer brewing in Iran — a tradition that included her own grandfather. She began brewing her own beer, experimenting with traditional Iranian ingredients like sumac, black lime, and barberries. Now she’s using her company, Back Home Beer, to change the narrative about Iranian people and culture. And one day, she hopes to bring her beer to Iran without fear. Nowruz Mobarak!The Sporkful production team includes Dan Pashman, Emma Morgenstern, Andres O'Hara, Nora Ritchie, Tracey Samuelson, and Jared O'Connell.

We have a guest episode this week from our friends at Opening Soon. In this season of Opening Soon, we’re undertaking a project we’ve been wanting to do for years. In The Build, we’re going to follow one chef’s journey to open a brand new restaurant as it’s happening. From the moment that they signed the lease until the doors are actually open, you’ll get to witness the emotional highs and the lows, how things go well, how things get delayed; all in real time.  In this episode, we meet the subject of our series, hear a bit about their food journey so far, and get a sneak peek at what’s coming this season.

Less than $2. That’s how much the Santa Ana Unified school district can afford to spend on one student’s lunch each day. The $14 billion budget of the National School Lunch program stretches thin, and school nutrition workers are often the target of kids’ complaints. Reporter Jessica Terrell explores the cultural figure of “the lunch lady,” and how students and workers lose when bureaucrats focus on cost over care.This episode includes an annotated transcript with links to sources used in the reporting. This podcast was created by editors at The Counter and produced by LWC Studios. It is made possible by grants from the W.K. Kellogg Foundation and the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.  

When Katy was working in the Bay Area in her early 20s, she would have given the Michelin Guide 3 stars, because those were the restaurants she felt like she had to work to learn about the most innovative and interesting food. How has that changed?In this last episode of our fourth season, Katy and Rachel dig into the history, the data, and the money behind the Michelin Guide in the U.S. with help from Krishnendu Ray (professor at NYU) and Beth Forrest (professor at the CIA). By the end of the research, Katy and Rachel had very different ratings for the Guide than what their 24-year-old selves would have given it. What about you? Guests:Beth ForrestHer faculty bio and booksKrishnendu RayHis book  | His faculty bio Articles mentioned and other resources:Florida’s Tourism Board Will Pay Michelin $150,000 to Rate the State’s RestaurantsWhy California Paid Michelin Guide $600,000 to Cover Los Angeles AgainThe Inspection ProcessMichelin Scatters Stars on New York (2005)The Fed-Up ChefThe Untold Truth Of The Michelin GuideThe High Price of a Michelin Guide: South Korea, Singapore, and Thailand have spent millions to get their own Red guidesThe History of the Michelin GuideHow Restaurants Get MIchelin Stars: A Brief History of the Michelin GuideThe Secret Life of an Anonymous Michelin Restaurant InspectorConfessions of a Michelin Inspector

Telly Justice and Mike Sheats worked together at Five & Ten in Athens Ga., where Justice worked her way up to chef de cuisine and Sheats was an AM chef. Once they started their own projects, the chefs knew that the strict brigade system, codified by Georges-Auguste Escoffier more than a hundred years ago, wouldn’t be the right fit for their businesses. “In the kitchens that Mike and I came up in, there was not much room for challenging anything,” said Justice. For both Justice and Sheats, the rigidity of the structure left no room for mistakes and little room for being themselves. Telly is now chef/co-owner of HAGS, a small tasting menu restaurant in New York City “by Queer people for all people,” and Mike, with his wife Shyretha, runs The Plate Sale, a pop-up inspired by community events like plate sales, barbecues, and fish fries in his hometown of Athens. This conversation was recorded as a chef-to-chef conversation for the Plate Magazine print edition. You can read an edited version of this conversation (and see some awesome pictures!) in their magazine here. But a less edited version of the conversation is here for your listening pleasure. Guests: Telly JusticeHAGS  | HAGS InstagramPress: When ‘Sir’ and ‘Ma’am’ Miss the Mark: Restaurants Rethink Gender’s Role in ServiceHAGS Will Be Queer First, and a Restaurant SecondA First Look at HAGS, New York’s Revolutionary New Queer Fine DiningMike SheatsThe Plate Sale  |  The Crowdfunding Campaign  |  Instagram  |  Email Press: Honoring the History of the Plate SaleAn inside look at The Plate SaleMeet Shyretha and Michael Sheats: Founders of The Plate SaleResources:Understanding Anti-Intellectualism in the U.S. by Studio ATAOAnti-Intellectualism int he Restaurant Industry: Why an equitable future requires overhauling the brigade systemAn Investigation in Culinary Life and Professional Identity in Practice during Internship Escoffier Kitchen Brigade System Then and Now“OUI, CHEF!” A Sociohistorical Analysis of Organizational Culture in the American Fine Dining Kitchen Brigade and its Effects on Health from 1903 to 2019Why is anti-intellectualism so popular in kitchens?

The United States is the top producer of corn in the world, yet only 40% of that corn is destined for someone’s plate. The industrialization of corn in the Americas is a story of colonization, appropriation, and capitalism. But there are also stories of people finding ways to celebrate biodiversity, culture, and history through great corn products. In this episode, we talk with Pedro Ferbel-Azcarate and Wendy Downing, 2 of 3 co-owners of Three Sisters Nixtamal, an organic and traditional masa maker. We also talk with Angel Medina, co-owner of Repùblica and Co, a Mexican-forward restaurant group. Guests: Pedro Ferbel-Azcarate & Wendy DowningThree Sisters  |  InstagramAngel MedinaRepùblica & Co  |  Instagram   Resources: To read more about what we talked about in this episode: Keepers of the Corn: Despite economic pressures, Oaxaca remains a stronghold of Mexico’s wondrous criollo, or native, corn varietiesHow Mexico’s iconic flatbread went industrial and lost its flavorThe Tortilla CartelUnited in Tradition as Peoples of the CornThe history of the world according to corn - TEDTalk by Chris A. KnieslyCorn: Origin, History, Technology, and ProductionHow Indigenous Seed Savers Safeguard Agricultural and Spiritual Tradition

Welcome to the Copper & Heat audio tasting menu. This 6-course experience takes you through dishes from pivotal points in the history of the modern tasting menu. Vote for us in the first inaugural Signal Awards! We were nominated for a Signal Award in the Food & drink category, and we need your help! Vote for us for the Listener’s Choice Award at the link above. Guests:Beth ForrestHer faculty bio and booksSam YamashitaHis piece on the Japanese Turn  |  His books  | His faculty bioKrishnendu RayHis book  | His faculty bio The courses:The restaurant by Mathurin Roze de ChantoiseauHassun from Hyotei in KyotoRouge en ècaille de pomme de terre by Paul BocuseSukiyakiToro and caviar by Masa TakayamaNixtamalized butternut squash en tacha from Lenga Madre in New Orleans The articles mentioned in this episode: 'Tasting’' Menu: A Good Idea Sours by Mimi Sheraton in the New York TimesNibbled to Death: Tasting Menus Can Be Too Much of a Good Thing by Pete Wells in the New York TimesThe New Generation of Tasting Menus Won’t Test Your Patience (or Your Wallet) by Brett Anderson in the New York Times More resources:The Japanese Origins of Modern Fine Dining by Meghan McCarron (2017)The Never-Ending Pivot: Amid the Omicron Surge, Restaurants Have Turned to Tasting Menus by Jeremy Repanich (2022)The death of the tasting menu by George Reynolds (2022)The Backlash Against the 'Tyranny' of Tasting Menus by Amy McKeever (2013)The Not-So-New Nouvelle Cuisine by Mimi Sheraton (1979)Celebrating the Ringmaster of the Restaurant Circus by Florence Fabricant (2014)How America’s First 3 Star Michelin Sushi Chef Serves His Fish on Eater’s YouTube (2015)

Is culinary school worth the investment in terms of money and time? This is a question posed by hundreds of thousands of people as they enter the culinary field. Is it worth spending the money to go to culinary school when I can just work my way up in the industry? Culinary schools have long been more of a trade school to train potential cooks in the culinary field. However, in the ‘90s, the Culinary Institute of America put in a concerted effort to professionalize the career of chef, and therefore give more value to their school, by educating their students on more than just technical skills. But as the systemic and cultural pitfalls of the restaurant industry have become more apparent in recent years, people are leaving the industry in droves, and even fewer are looking to enter. So as more culinary schools close their doors, how do educational institutions answer the question - is culinary school worth it?Guests: Krishnendu RayHis book  | His faculty bioBeth ForrestHer faculty bioHanalei SouzaHer website  |  Instagram  |  Her bookAnnika AlturaInstagram Kiah FullerHer website  |  Instagram Resources: To read more about what we talked about in this episode: Pros & Cons & Thoughts: Is Going to Culinary School Worth It?A Fast, Frugal Track to a Cook’s Career? Community CollegeCulinary school enrollment drops even as need soars at restaurantsDoes Biden’s Student Loan Forgiveness Plan Extend to Culinary School Students?Three Charts That Show Why Culinary School Is Not Worth ItIs Culinary School Still Worth It? Four Chefs Weigh InCulinary School: The Pros and Cons of Culinary Education

Meat in the U.S. has had a complicated history which in recent years has spurred on the resurgence of interest in whole animal butchery and neighborhood butcher shops. But even as meat prices have risen, how have the people working behind the counter been affected?In this episode, we speak with 2 butchers who have had very different careers within the world of butchery. There’s Edgar (he/him), whose career includes 20 years at Texas Roadhouse and 5 at Belcampo Meat Co. Then there’s HJ (they/them), who has worked all over the country including Blue Hill at Stone Barns, The Meat Hook in Brooklyn, and now co-owns Pasture PDX, a small craft butcher shop, in Portland, OR with their business partner Kei. Guests:  HJ Schaible (they/them)Their website  |  Instagram Edgar Cisneros (he/him)Instagram  Resources: To read more about what we talked about in this episode: The price of plenty: how beef changed AmericaWhole Animal Butchery: The Growth, the Problems, and the FutureChef’s Fable: Blue Hill at Stone Barns’ alluring story — that a fine dining restaurant could be a model for changing the world — seduced diners, would-be employees, and thought leaders alike. But former employees say that narrative often obscured a more complicated reality.After sourcing scandal, Belcampo Meat Co. abruptly closes stores, restaurantsFormer sustainable meat darling Belcampo suddenly shuts down all operations: The news follows a summer controversy over mislabeling meatsThe Instagram thread of the employee who called Belcampo out This episode is supported by BentoBox and Clover. To learn more about their all-in-one platform for websites, online ordering, world-class point-of-sale, and payment solutions, check out getbento.com/better.

As cooks and others from the restaurant industry leave traditional jobs to strike out on their own, what does it mean for the craft of cooking?Food is an inherently sensual thing. Sure, it needs to look visually appealing, but that doesn't necessarily say that you are good at the craft of cooking. Does it taste good? Does it smell good? As social media becomes increasingly essential to growing a food business, how does that affect the people working in food every day and how they approach their craft?In this episode, we're talking to 3 different people who work in food and the different ways they use social media – and how social media has affected their identities as food professionals.Guests: Chris Martin (she/her)Her website  |  Instagram  |  RedditHanalei Souza (she/her)Her website  |  Instagram  |  Her bookDevan Rajkumar. (he/him)His website  |  Instagram  |  TikTok  |  YouTubeResources: To read more about what we talked about in this episode: $10,000 for one Instagram post? How food influencers can make or break restaurantsHow to Be Food Famous​​How to tell the difference between a journalist and a food influencerFood Instagram: Identity, Influence & Negotiation by Emily J.H. Contois & Zenia KishThe video clips in this episode come from:How Instagram can make or break a restaurantRestaurant Owner Slams Influencers Asking For Free Stuff In A PandemicTikTok opening ghost kitchens How Taking Pictures of Food Can Be a Full-Time Job — The Business of Going Viral Part 2/4This episode is supported by BentoBox and Clover. To learn more about their all-in-one platform for websites, online ordering, world-class point-of-sale, and payment solutions, check out getbento.com/better

In this re-release of the first episode of our second season, we’re going to Boise, Idaho to talk with the team at Kin Restaurant. In a small city that’s growing and changing rapidly, what does a small, fine-dining, tasting menu restaurant do to not only educate diners on the value of good food but also educate their employees about the value of themselves as restaurant workers?You can find KIN: On their websiteOn InstagramThis episode is supported by BentoBox and Clover. To learn more about their all-in-one platform for websites, online ordering, world-class point-of-sale, and payment solutions, check out getbento.com/better.

How have chefs and the restaurant industry contributed to the near-extinction of abalone, the prized mollusk often associated with fine dining?Indigenous tribes up and down the coast of what is today California have been eating abalone for thousands of years. In the 20th and 21st centuries, the influx of non-native folks led to the hunting, fetishization, and overconsumption of abalone. From San Francisco bohemians who were inspired by its beauty to Japanese fishermen making a business out of exporting it back home, the rapid decline of the abalone population led to the government instituting a ban on abalone fishing. In this episode, we explore the various forces that led to the near-extinction of abalone and how the government ban has criminalized the millennia-old culinary customs of indigenous people like Hillary Renick, a Pomo-Paiute woman who has risked jail time and fines in order to keep those food traditions alive.TW/CW - we discuss the trauma associated with the colonization of the United States and topics such as genocide and gun violence.  Guests: Ann Vileisis (she/her)Her website  |  Buy the bookHillary Renick (she/her)About Hilary  |  The High Country News Article  |  TEDxArchivorium with HillaryDoug Bush. (he/him)Cultured Abalone Instagram  |  Buy Cultured Abalone  Resources: To read more about what we talked about in this episode: Native Food Profiles/Oral HistoriesAbalone Tales: Collaborative Explorations of Sovereignty and Identity in Native CaliforniaHistory: Hidden Treaty of Temecula robbed Indigenous people of their landsGenocide and the Indians of California, 1769-1873The Gold Rush Impact on Native TribesCalifornia’s Little-Known GenocideTraditional Foods and Indigenous Solidarity by Hillary RenickAbalone : It takes two years to grow one small mollusk, but biologists are trying to make all that time pay off with a crop that will be a big hit with gourmetsCalifornia Is Destroying Its Cultural Heritage as Abalone Verges on ExtinctionTroubled Waters for Abalone Farms ProposalIn California’s abalone country, the hunt continues to evolveHow Chinese Immigrants Built—and Lost—a Shellfish IndustryThe Abalone King of Monterey: "pop" Ernest Doelter, Pioneering Japanese Fishermen & the Culinary Classic That Saved an IndustryAbalone, That Delicious Rarity, Being Farmed in Bay AreaAbalone's luster grows / Eco-friendly aquaculture lures endangered mollusk back onto Bay Area menusAbalone grows as a cash crop The video clips in this episode come from: San Francisco Panama Pacific International Exposition 1915100 Story Project - Roy Hattori: The Japanese Internment100 Story Project - Roy Hattori: Diving for AbaloneHow Chef Daniel Boulud Makes His Signature Abalone Dish at Two-Michelin-Starred Daniel How a Master Chef Built One of the Country's Best Restaurants In Elk, CaliforniaHow a Master Chef Runs the Only Two Michelin-Starred Mexican Restaurant in America@highspeeddining at Minibar by José AndrésAstounding Eats Get Better at Aubergine RestaurantThis episode is supported by BentoBox and Clover. To learn more about their all-in-one platform for websites, online ordering, world-class point-of-sale, and payment solutions, check out getbento.com/better

What does the popularity of culinary foam say about the types of food – and the kinds of chefs – we value?When Geraldine DeRuiter wrote about her meal at “the worst Michelin starred restaurant, ever,” she didn’t expect to start a global controversy. The tasting menu she had at Bros, in Lecce, Italy, was a bizarre, avant garde dining experience, the pinnacle being the “Chef’s Kiss” dish, a plaster cast of a mouth with foam dripping out of it. What followed was a whole conversation online about the nature of food as art, the role of a chef, and the pretentiousness of fine dining. And as we dug in more, we started to see how the “Chef’s Kiss” was not just a ridiculous dish on a bizarre menu, but how foam was a metaphor for the flaws of fine dining and the toxicity of the “abusive genius” chef. You can find Geraldine (she/her):Twitter | Instagram | FacebookOn her blogBuy her book To read more about the international culinary incident:Geraldine’s original blog post and her follow upThe story from Today with Floriano’s “Man on a Horse” responseOf Mouth Molds and Michelin Stars: Chef Finds Fame After Epic Takedown: Panned by a prominent blogger, the Italian restaurant Bros’ and its celebrity chef became a global target for critics of pretentious cuisine. There was a good side for him.The Reels put out by Bros: “Limoniamo, Let’s Make Out”“Floriano Pellegrino in the Spotlight”“Strange Posters Around the City”More about foam:The article from 2002 in which Ferran Adrià declares “foams are out” and announces that they are now making “air”Once Declared Passé, Foam Returns to the Restaurant Table: From a dragon-fruit cloud to aerated lobster bisque, chefs are breathing new life into the most clichéd of culinary techniques.Ferran Adrià, Master of Foam, Whips Up Dinner: First he created avant-garde cuisine. His next challenge: Getting you to make an affordable three-course meal…every night of the week This episode is supported by BentoBox and Clover. To learn more about their all-in-one platform for websites, online ordering, world-class point-of-sale, and payment solutions, check out getbento.com/better