The Upper Bench

Nathan's Journey from Infrared to Real Sauna. A candid journey from infrared hype to authentic Finnish sauna, highlighting why real heat, löyly, and hot–cold contrast are so compelling. We discuss practice over marketing—ventilation, simple rituals, and family-friendly routines that deliver presence and stress relief. And we learn about Nathan's eye toward a future wood-fired sauna.PODCAST LINKShttps://www.theupperbench.comhttps://www.instagram.com/upper.bench.podcast/https://www.facebook.com/theupperbenchCONTENTS00:00 Introduction and how Risto and Nathan became friends 03:56 Nathan's first hot cold experiences 05:24 Selecting and buying and infrared "sauna"07:45 Scientology and niacin14:03 Experience with his IR16:03 Getting a real sauna17:59 Stress relief and mental health benefits20:23 Saunaing with a young child 25:24 Nathan's sauna practice37:58 Why IR doesn't cut it39:00 The aim of sauna: sweat or something more? 42:35 Another lackluster IR experience46:38 How financial motivations skew sauna opinions 50:36 Any plans for a wood-burning sauna?

Episode 61 - Risto, Eero, and Sam return to the Upper Bench to dig into public vs. private sauna, heater tech (smoke, wood, flip-lid electric), masonry vs. metal, a simple rating framework for public saunas—and Sam’s upcoming move to Texas.PODCAST LINKShttps://www.theupperbench.comhttps://www.instagram.com/upper.bench.podcast/https://www.facebook.com/theupperbenchCONTENTS00:00 Introduction06:59 Updates + Risto's lofted build08:18 Flip-lid heater & heat prefs12:47 Eero's Finland heater rebuild & boiling water tanks19:18 Stoves, rocks, masonry27:20 Public vs. private, ratings, utility vs. social, travel + Sam moves to TX

Episode 060 - Eero and Risto brainstorm about the NASS ambassador program and how to categorize different saunas in North America.If you have ideas, please leave them in the comments!

Episode 59 - Michael Nordskog, author of The Opposite of Cold, joins the Upper Bench podcast to discuss his book and details about his two wonderful saunas.GUEST LINKShttps://www.facebook.com/TheOppositeofColdhttps://www.upress.umn.edu/9780816656820/the-opposite-of-cold/UPPER BENCH LINKShttps://www.theupperbench.comhttps://www.instagram.com/upper.bench.podcast/https://www.facebook.com/theupperbenchCONTENTS00:00 Introduction02:19 Writing the Opposite of Cold07:11 Michael's cedar log sauna16:01 How many savusaunas are there in North America27:07 Matti Kaups archive29:43 Michael's sauna practice34:22 His sauna build42:52 Sauna dogma and guidelines44:20 Oslo sauna visit with Mikkel Aaland50:38 Did Norwegian immigrants bring badstue (sauna) with them?52:51 Predictions for the future of sauna

Catching up after a few weeks on the road... and talking about Eero's visit to the sauna village in Finland where he used a pit sauna and a two-story sauna. And Risto shows some photos of the NY savusauna he visited. Thank you Bryon MacWilliams, Catskill Weather, and Zach for the warm hospitality at Southampton Spa.CONTENT00:00 Intro01:57 Eero's visit to Finn Camp09:20 Savusauna in the Catskills17:50 Pit sauna at the sauna village21:36 Two-story sauna at the sauna village24:15 Why you should burn aspen for your final round25:38 Southampton spa review30:23 Eero's summer plans33:11 Listener question about sauna windows

James Phelps joins us to get super geeky about sauna construction.We dive deep into sauna ventilation, CO₂ testing, and stove design. James shares insights from his hands-on experiments and discusses what he learned writing his book Fire & Ice. Along the way, we cover practical tips for building a better sauna, managing humidity, and creating a truly breathable space.JAMES' BOOK https://www.amazon.com/Fire-Ice-tradition-technology-balanced/dp/B0D2RPWZS2/UPPER BENCH LINKS https://www.theupperbench.comhttps://www.instagram.com/upper.bench.podcast/https://www.facebook.com/theupperbenchTheme Music: Conga Se Menne "Guess Who's Coming to Sauna"CONTENTS00:00 Introduction and meeting our guest James Phelps06:11 How he decided to build a sauna08:07 Exploring different sauna construction possibilities09:30 Getting ventilation right; comparing different strategies13:01 Prevailing winds and ventilation as seen with sweat lodge ventilation14:51 Cold plunge and winter experience16:47 Different stoves options and interior vs exterior feed20:00 Preheating the sauna: “Close your eyes and you can't tell where the stove is”22:20 High rock mass vs low rock mass32:37 Sharing his findings and writing a book36:00 CO₂ testing and results37:34 Will galvanized fasteners rust in a sauna?39:24 How should a sauna smell? Using essential oil and other scents48:04 Listener question about vent placement in garage sauna50:17 James’ cold plunge routine and preferred sauna temp52:41 Using sauna for recovery post-surgery54:34 Closing comments

On this episode of The Upper Bench, Sam and Risto welcome Finnish American sauna entrepreneur Dan Raisanen whose family sauna history is rooted in Cokato, Minnesota and is now running his own sauna company in Michigan.Sauna Bath Companyhttps://www.saunabath.coLINKShttps://www.theupperbench.comhttps://www.instagram.com/upper.bench.podcast/https://www.facebook.com/theupperbenchTheme Music: Conga Se Menne "Guess Who's Coming to Sauna"

Wade Litt - Sauna in Ohio and Other Adventures - 055On this episode of The Upper Bench, Eero and Risto welcome sauna entrepreneur Wade Litt to explore the sauna scene in Ohio and hear about his sauna adventures.LÖ-LU Saunahttps://lo-lu.comLINKShttps://www.theupperbench.comhttps://www.instagram.com/upper.bench.podcast/https://www.facebook.com/theupperbenchPhilly Steam with Bryonhttps://www.facebook.com/events/691959186507593Theme Music: Conga Se Menne "Guess Who's Coming to Sauna"CONTENT00:00 Introduction & Philly Steam-Up02:49 Wade Litt - first sauna experiences and parent's build10:23 Building his mobile sauna14:45 Mobile sauna use and location; running a business15:45 Sauna adventures and exploration21:41 Wade's favorite public saunas23:51 Banyas vs public "saunas"30:07 Saunas Wade would like to visit31:20 Future business plans34:25 Viewer Questions: Vegas sauna; safe for a single woman to visit Helsinki; Eero's savusauna38:37 Advice for starting a sauna business start-ups

On this episode of The Upper Bench, Eero and Risto welcome Finnish American sauna entrepreneur Larry Anderson to explore the deep-rooted sauna traditions of Michigan’s Copper Country. They discuss how homemade wood‑burning stoves packed with heavy rocks create a uniquely soft, steam‑driven heat and trace the evolution from childhood basement saunas to modern barrel and mobile builds. We also preview the upcoming Memorial Day sweat in Philadelphia with Bryon MacWilliams!Copper Country Saunahttps://coppercountrysauna.comLINKShttps://www.theupperbench.comhttps://www.instagram.com/upper.bench.podcast/https://www.facebook.com/theupperbenchPhilly Steam with Bryonhttps://www.facebook.com/events/691959186507593Theme Music: Conga Se Menne "Guess Who's Coming to Sauna"CONTENT00:00 Welcome and intro Larry03:16 What is copper country sauna?05:52 Larry's history with sauna10:04 Historic public and converted SAVUsaunas27:00 Old-school vs modern sauna practice31:02 Larry's SIX !! saunas36:15 Most interesting saunas Larry has been in40:23 Experience is the best teacher for students of traditional sauna41:51 favorite temperature in the sauna45:00 Risto's sales pitch for checking out the U.P. sauna scene46:46 Tips for building a sauna on a budget (don't rush and spread it out over a couple years)49:07 Digging to find the good saunas in North America (they are out there!)

Sam, Eero, and Risto discuss different types of online negativity in the sauna world. Risto rants a fair bit as he makes the case for why culture is always somewhat negative (and should be). They also field questions from the audience about wood-burning vs electric and UL restrictions in North America.Stay tuned for an East Coast meet-up in May!LINKShttps://www.theupperbench.comhttps://www.facebook.com/theupperbenchhttps://www.instagram.com/upper.bench.podcast/

Eero chats with Mikkel Aaland for Finlandia Foundation's National Sauna Week.https://www.nationalsaunaweek.comhttp://www.mikkelaaland.com

February 23 Livestream ReplayModern Sauna vs Ancient, Always Ready HeatersCONTENT0:00 Intro & Welcome 1:09 Eero’s Sauna Travels & National Sauna Week 4:49 Weekend Sauna Recap & Heater Struggles 7:47 Sauna Heating: Time, Public Sauna & Regulations 17:07 Sauna Heater Standards: U.S. vs. Canada 22:49 Traditional vs. Modern Sauna Heating & Smoke Saunas 29:42 “Always Ready” Sauna Heaters & Ritual Importance 37:05 Why Steam (Löyly) is Essential 42:06 Sauna Build: Windows & Heating Safety 46:43 Infrared 'Saunas' vs. Traditional Sauna 52:00 Sauna as a Social & Community Tradition 54:23 Enhancing the Sauna Experience: Scents & Rituals 1:02:45 Final Thoughts & Sauna Tips

Episode 50 - Eero says "hi" from Finland. Sam and Risto host the weekly livestream and field questions from the chat.TOPICS00:00 Introduction & Host Updates 09:39 Sauna Ventilation & Heat Distribution 14:16 Managing Wood Stoves & Chimney Setup 19:07 Sauna Construction, Mobility & Costs 25:35 DIY Sauna Controllers & Automation 29:11 Shipping Container Sauna Builds and Other Temporary Options46:28 Choosing & Testing Sauna Stones 53:59 Sauna Rock Explosions – Myth or Reality? 57:05 Sauna as a Space for Healing & Reflection

The Upper Bench kicks off Finlandia Foundation's national Sauna Week 2025. Check out their other sessions at https://www.nationalsaunaweek.com.We examine sauna through the lens of the classical elements: Earth, Air, Fire, and Water.

Eero returns from his first trip to the U.P. Sam chops TONS of red oak. Risto tries a new sauna in town. And Wade joins us to talk about The Law of Löyly. Episode 48 CONTENT 00:00 Catching up 02:10 Eero's visit to the U.P. 03:18 Kurtti sauna 03:48 Knuuttila sauna 06:07 Radiant heat 09:02 Describe the sauna scene U.P. there 13:35 Next Stop on Eero's sauna talk travels 15:27 Ilo heaters and other rock tower electric heaters 24:28 Old school plate heaters 30:08 Wade drops in to chat 34:53 Breaking the law of löyly 39:25 Sam's first homemade sauna stove and his woodpile 43:36 Sauna Week and Eero's future talks 47:09 Risto's recent sauna visit

Help us plan our topics for 2025 and join us for our livestreams.

Episode 46: Rob Licht Rob joins Eero, Sam, and Risto to share his sauna story that started with the humble Podunk sauna and ended with Rob running his own sauna construction company. We discuss art, craft, construction science, and why Rob wants to make sauna boring. Rob Licht Custom Saunas https://roblichtcustomsaunas.com/ https://roblichtcustomsaunas.com/blog SPONSOR Kreamy Soaps www.KreamySoaps.com 25% discount code "upperbench" CONTENT 00:00 Introduction 03:33 Growing up with sauna - podunk sauna 08:00 Building his first sauna 09:57 Humble Finnish saunas 11:26 The conflict of business and craft 13:00 Boat sauna project 14:23 New customers who don't understand sauna 18:23 Deconstructing the Podunk sauna 19:44 Cedar kit craze of the 70s 22:00 Sauna construction science 28:50 Rob's sauna routine / practice 31:40 Let it breathe! Sauna Ventilation 33:56 Kreamy Soaps Sponsor & bathing in the sauna 45:00 Rob wants to make sauna normal & boring

Episode 45 - Eero, Sam, and Risto catch up after some travel and discuss Risto's sauna adventures in Cambodia, Eero's Finnish spa experience, Sam's masonry heater musings, Eero's big news for 2025, and our advice for hotels and gyms in North America. SPONSOR https://kreamysoaps.com code: "upperbench" LINKS https://classyhotelspa.com https://azumayacambodia.com https://www.kumpeli.fi/ CONTENT 00:00 Intro and Announcements 03:33 Sauna in Cambodia 09:27 Eero's trip back to Finland & the hotel spa 16:10 Sam dreams of masonry 26:09 Eero's BIG news 30:06 North America's sauna scene and gyms and hotels 39:55 Our plans for the rest of the year

Sam, Eero, and Risto review the Upper Bench 2024 Meet-up in Toronto. They are joined by Markus, Todd, and Ryan to talk about upside-down sauna design, hidden strip mall saunas, and Markus' cottage sauna. SPONSOR Kreamy Soaps www.KreamySoaps.com 25% discount code "upperbench" CONTENT 00:00 Introduction 01:58 Upside-down sauna design and the shindig at Markus' 09:27 Amazing Chinese noodle lunch 10:39 South-western Bathhouse in the strip-mall alley 15:44 The Ambassador Club 17:42 Kreamy Pine Tar Soap advertisement 18:11 Off-grid cottage sauna 22:27 Secret strip-mall sauna 39:53 Future sauna trends in Toronto 47:58 Outro

Anne-Mari Paster, Elizabeth “Helvi” Brauer, and Julie Rice join The Upper Bench to discuss the cultural nuances of sauna and nudity. They share personal stories from Finland and the United States, touching on the importance of comfort, consent, and respect in sauna settings. The conversation explores how different backgrounds shape views on nudity, from traditions in Nordic countries to more reserved perspectives in America and beyond. Throughout, they emphasize creating a welcoming, judgment-free space that values dialogue and mutual understanding in both private and public sauna experiences. https://www.theupperbench.com https://finlandiafoundation.org Elizabeth "Helvi" Brauer is the founder of Luumu - Finnish Living and a founding-member of the 612 Sauna Cooperative in Minneapolis, MN. https://www.luumuabc.com CONTENT 00:00 Introduction and Welcome 02:30 Cultural Perspectives on Sauna Nudity 10:45 Comfort and Consent in Sauna 20:15 Personal Experiences and Stories 35:00 Additional Thoughts and Takeaways