Emotional Sobriety: The Next Step in Recovery

Thom’s Nutshell: Sit, breathe, focus on personal imperfections. Characteristic defects are simply characteristics. Make a list of so-called defects. Express gratitude for each of them. Why not? You can’t outrun them. Changing our dance steps changes the dance. If we shift in our approach to communication with others, the relationship necessarily has to change. In emotional sobriety, our communication becomes informative, not manipulative. As we untangle from our expectations and demands, we retake responsibility. We learn to soothe ourselves, to validate our own experience, to tolerate uncertainty. Autonomous individuals understand that others don’t exist to satisfy their needs. Reassurance from a friend, partner, or coworker is something we can appreciate rather than something we must obtain. In the later part of the episode we define emotional fluency as something that finds its best expression in acceptance, when person-to-person contact becomes more natural and effortless. Patrick and Thom discuss their experience on the other side of important relationships, the hard fought lessons, and the living amends they now try to carry forward. Our music is provided by the great southern artist Jefferson Ross. Learn more about Jefferson at jeffersonross.com Visit our website: www.emotionalsobriety.info Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here: https://rebelliondogspublishing.com  Follow us on social media: Instagram: thomrutledge2 Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs   Friendly Circle Berlin workshops: https://friendlycircleberlin.org/events   Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/   Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):  https://zoom.us/j/330149513 Password: 375986   For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g   Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519 We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.   We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at [email protected] for any questions or comments. Chapters (00:00:00) - Introduction and Recap of Emotional Dependency(00:01:22) - Informative vs Manipulative Communication(00:04:56) - Making Amends Without Seeking Forgiveness(00:05:59) - Self-Support Over Seeking Reassurance(00:09:29) - Surviving Hard Times Through Fellowship and Love(00:11:13) - Defining Emotional Fluency(00:13:04) - Strategic vs Intimate Communication(00:15:19) - Subjectivity and Perceiving Reality(00:17:37) - Sharing Experience, Strength and Hope(00:19:18) - Navigating a Breakup with Emotional Honesty(00:21:31) - Desire, Guilt, and Knowing What You Want(00:23:09) - Living with Uncertainty and Self-Acceptance(00:25:53) - Regret, Shadow, and Self-Love(00:27:29) - Reframing the Past and First Marriage Reflections(00:29:33) - Paying It Forward: Amends and Growth

Thom’s Nutshell: Perfectionism and Procrastination are old friends – they go way back. What is emotional dependency? What does that look like, and how can it corrode our relationship with others? Allen goes back to Bill W’s letter on Emotional Sobriety for answers, defining it as real maturity, balance and humility in relationship to life itself. In the transition from environmental support to self support, we release expectations of validation from our fellows to be okay. In emotional dependency we find our own value in a “reflected sense of self.” This is a self-sabotaging framework we can learn to move away from. Part two later this week will discuss what emotional sobriety can do to build our capacity for communication. Our music is provided by the great southern artist Jefferson Ross. Learn more about Jefferson at jeffersonross.com Visit our website: www.emotionalsobriety.info Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here: https://rebelliondogspublishing.com  Follow us on social media: Instagram: thomrutledge2 Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs   Friendly Circle Berlin workshops: https://friendlycircleberlin.org/events   Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/   Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):  https://zoom.us/j/330149513 Password: 375986   For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g   Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519 We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.   We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at [email protected] for any questions or comments. Chapters (00:00:07) - Introduction and Defining Emotional Dependency(00:01:24) - From Environmental Support to Self Support(00:03:38) - Physical Self-Support and Mastering Skills as Children(00:05:34) - The Cece Story: How Parental Reflection Shapes Us(00:09:11) - The Reflected Sense of Self and Bill's Need for Approval(00:11:04) - Being Stuck in Emotional Dependency(00:11:48) - How Emotional Dependency Distorts Communication(00:13:02) - Defending the Reflected Self and Feeling Dismissed(00:13:56) - Personal Growth Stories and Emotional Freedom(00:15:11) - Manipulation, Squeezing Life Out of Others, and Self-Esteem(00:18:13) - Assigning Others Responsibility for Our Emotional Stability(00:19:30) - St. Francis Prayer Reimagined and Closing Thoughts

Thom’s Nutshell: Emotional Sobriety is like riding a unicycle. Allen shares some special interactions he had with Father Richard Rohr, and Thom returns to the show to talk Emotional Sobriety with Patrick. Richard Rohr’s latest writing, about The Odyssey: https://cac.org/daily-meditations/the-odyssey-a-story-of-homegoing/ Our music is provided by the great southern artist Jefferson Ross. Learn more about Jefferson at jeffersonross.com Visit our website: www.emotionalsobriety.info Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here: https://rebelliondogspublishing.com  Follow us on social media: Instagram: thomrutledge2 Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs   Friendly Circle Berlin workshops: https://friendlycircleberlin.org/events   Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/   Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):  https://zoom.us/j/330149513 Password: 375986   For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g   Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519 We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.   We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at [email protected] for any questions or comments. Chapters (00:00:07) - Recap of recent speaking trip and conferences(00:01:18) - Training with Tommy Rosen and yoga integration(00:02:32) - Men's retreat at Hummingbird Music Camp(00:03:37) - Father Richard Rohr's surprise visit and wisdom at 84(00:05:59) - Retreat impact and the Enneagram(00:06:45) - The pursuit of emotional freedom(00:07:39) - Emotional sobriety as riding a unicycle(00:08:25) - My story, our story, others' story, and the story(00:11:47) - Catholicism, universality, and colonial history(00:13:07) - Facing physical helplessness in the third half of life(00:14:34) - Sorrow, process addiction, and doing it wrong(00:16:20) - Story failure, politics, and Trumpism as meaning(00:18:00) - Universal forgiveness and positive cosmology(00:18:57) - Genesis 1 vs Genesis 3 and nihilistic culture(00:22:35) - Understanding, feeling, and relationships(00:24:06) - Multiple selves and internal parts work(00:25:36) - Therapy, integrating difficult parts, and leadership of self(00:27:01) - Insight versus hindsight in self-understanding(00:27:55) - Creative work and not knowing its meaning(00:28:32) - Book projects and publishing updates(00:30:11) - Nostalgia for radio versus podcasting

Thom’s Nutshell: Be realistic about rejection. Don’t take things personally! Staying in equanimity, being less reactive are some primary goals of emotional sobriety. We aren’t sick, we’re stuck. Allen uses the example of a loved one failing to show up for him at a critical moment to demonstrate how dependency works. We keep authorship of our experience in our own hands by differentiating. Can we keep our center of gravity over our own two feet, regardless of what happens? Joe C. asks in the second half of the episode: what are the exceptions, the challenges to “our” reality that can do us a service? We get into dating, breakups, and the idea of “controlled” drinking. Learn more about ICSAA, The International Conference of Secular AA, here (Phoenix event coming November 13-15): https://www.aasecular.org/icsaa-2026 Our music is provided by the great southern artist Jefferson Ross. Learn more about Jefferson at jeffersonross.com Visit our website: www.emotionalsobriety.info Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here: https://rebelliondogspublishing.com  Follow us on social media: Instagram: thomrutledge2 Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs   Friendly Circle Berlin workshops: https://friendlycircleberlin.org/events   Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/   Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):  https://zoom.us/j/330149513 Password: 375986   For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g   Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519 We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.   We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at [email protected] for any questions or comments. Chapters (00:00:00) - Introduction to Emotional Sobriety Theme(00:00:37) - Don't Let Others Edit Your Reality: The Core Concept(00:01:25) - Example: Partner Arriving Late to a Talk(00:03:19) - Keeping Authorship of Your Own Reality(00:04:34) - Dependence, Approval, and Feedback from Others(00:06:28) - Personal Struggles with Reactivity and Equanimity(00:07:33) - Tom's Absence and Upcoming Book Announcement(00:08:30) - Reality as Construct and Recovery Beliefs(00:10:04) - Rethinking Long-Term Sobriety and Relapse Beliefs(00:13:16) - Everyone's Recovery Looks Different(00:15:18) - Breaking Up and Not Internalizing Others' Judgments(00:17:32) - Evolving Relationship Values and Responsibility(00:19:58) - Change, Growth, and Survival(00:21:04) - Upcoming Secular AA Conference in Phoenix

Thom’s Nutshell: Serious condition: I’ll be okay as soon as that thing that happened to me didn’t happen to me. There’s a difference between blame and responsibility. Blame comes from “low differentiation,” or a low level of emotional maturity. It’s a sign of where we’re stuck in our development-fused with our environments. Taking responsibility, conversely, empowers us. It gives us more possibilities, brings in enthusiasm and zeal. We’re working towards self-support, where we act for ourselves without being selfish, and acting for others without losing ourselves. Our music is provided by the great southern artist Jefferson Ross. Learn more about Jefferson at jeffersonross.com Visit our website: www.emotionalsobriety.info Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here: https://rebelliondogspublishing.com  Follow us on social media: Instagram: thomrutledge2 Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs   Friendly Circle Berlin workshops: https://friendlycircleberlin.org/events   Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/   Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):  https://zoom.us/j/330149513 Password: 375986   For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g   Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519 We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.   We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at [email protected] for any questions or comments. Chapters (00:00:07) - Introduction and Recovery 2.0 Retreat with Tommy Rosen(00:02:46) - Yoga, Travel, and Recovery Speaking Life(00:03:58) - Blame vs Responsibility: Defining Emotional Immaturity(00:08:50) - How Blame Turns Us Into Victims(00:10:20) - Walking Through a Disappointment Scenario(00:12:27) - Empowerment Through Responsibility(00:13:49) - Joining Joe: Milestones in Long-Term Sobriety(00:14:33) - Childlike Curiosity vs Duty and Obligation(00:16:58) - Addiction as a Solution That Almost Worked(00:18:00) - Self-Regulation and Mindfulness(00:20:16) - Expressing Feelings Through Music(00:21:10) - New Parenthood and Emotional Sobriety(00:23:04) - Uncharted Territory: Supporting a Struggling Friend(00:26:24) - Living With Human Range, Not Transcending It(00:27:41) - Agency, Responsibility, and Passing Time(00:29:04) - Perpetrator, Victim, Rescuer Triads(00:30:23) - Programming, Privilege, and the Limits of Emotional Work(00:31:54) - Responsibility as Meaning, Not Burden