Two Tall Guys Talking Sales

Welcome back to Two Tall Guys Talking Sales with hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey. In this dynamic episode, the Tall Guys welcome Paul Rafferty from Sales Xceleration to explore the art and science of sales coaching, deal qualification, and the importance of building sales acumen. Paul brings decades of experience in sales management, value selling, and revenue generation, offering a practical framework for sales leaders who want to coach their teams more effectively and for reps who want to stop chasing the wrong deals. Discover how to transform your team’s approach to sales processes—from opportunity scoring to understanding a buyer’s “pain chain.” This conversation is packed with actionable insights that blend sales strategy, business acumen, and real-world stories you can immediately apply to your own selling environment.   Key Topics Discussed 03:00 — Building a Deal Coaching Framework: Paul introduces his 100-point scorecard system that evaluates the Ideal Prospect Profile, the Pain Chain, and Commitment to Decision. This framework transforms deal reviews into powerful coaching sessions rather than mere forecast updates. 05:10 — The “Pain Chain” and Sales Philosophy: Sean and Paul discuss how understanding buyer pain isn’t optional—it’s foundational to value selling. Without real pain, there’s no compelling reason for your buyer to act. 06:45 — From Friendly to Effective Salesperson: Paul and Sean discuss how friendliness can open doors, but it's teaching and insight that ultimately win deals. Sales success comes from challenging your prospects and helping them think differently. 08:00 — Why Deals Get Stuck: Kevin and Paul explore how most stalled deals trace back to weak discovery. Coaching your team to go deeper early in the sales process prevents gridlock later. 10:30 — The Currency of Knowledge: Paul explains that in modern selling, gifts and lunches no longer move the needle—information does. Great salespeople earn influence by being teachers, not vendors.   Key Quotes Paul Rafferty (03:50): "It’s not what you do—it’s what they do. The scorecard helps you coach reps to spend time where there’s real buying intent, not just big logos." Sean O’Shaughnessey (05:43): "Salespeople need to understand the theory of sales. Without knowing the frameworks—like the pain chain or solution selling—you’re just saying, ‘I’m a nice guy, buy from me.’" Kevin Lawson (08:38): "Most deals go to die in the discovery phase. Coaching means rewinding the tape and helping reps fix what wasn’t done early enough." Paul Rafferty (12:51): "Your currency is information—help your buyer look smart, get promoted, and win internally. That’s real value selling."   Additional Resources Paul Rafferty prafferty@salesxceleration.com  https://www.linkedin.com/in/pauljrafferty/ Books referenced: Solution Selling by Michael Bosworth - https://a.co/d/hHtYSiX The Challenger Sale by Matthew Dixon & Brent Adamson - https://a.co/d/2kJsbDU Strategic Selling by Robert Miller & Stephen Heiman - https://a.co/d/icPcC6H   A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast Implement a Deal Coaching Scorecard. Instead of subjective forecasting (“This deal is 70% likely to close”), create an objective scoring model based on: Ideal Prospect Fit (25 pts) – Does this prospect align with your best customer profile? Pain Chain (25 pts) – Have they admitted to a real, solvable pain? Commitment to Decision (50 pts) – Have they engaged decision-makers and committed to next steps? Use this tool in your next pipeline review. It will sharpen your sales management coaching, improve revenue forecasting, and elevate your team’s overall sales success. If you want more information about this scorecard, reach out to Paul Rafferty at his address above.   Summary This episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales is a masterclass in sales leadership and coaching excellence. Kevin, Sean, and Paul dive deep into how great leaders use structured deal reviews to unlock stalled opportunities, develop their team’s business acumen, and create consistent revenue generation. From mastering discovery to building a “pain chain,” this discussion challenges sales professionals to move beyond friendliness toward measurable, strategic impact. If you’re a sales leader, coach, or rep who wants to accelerate growth through more innovative sales strategies and actionable messaging, don’t miss this episode. Listen now and take your next step toward true sales success.   B2B Sales Lab is a private, member-led community for sales professionals who want actionable insights, not theory. It’s a space to ask real questions, share proven practices, and connect with others who are serious about improving revenue performance. Designed and led by veteran sales leaders, the Lab is where strategy meets execution. Join us at b2b-sales-lab.com   You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - Sean@NewSales.Expert - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/   You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - kevin@lighthousesalesadvisors.com - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/   You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin   You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/  

In this episode, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey tackle one of the most fundamental truths in business and sales leadership: change is inevitable. Whether you're managing a sales team, scaling from $5M to $50M, or repositioning your company for new markets, your success depends on your ability to pivot,  intelligently, decisively, and confidently. Sean and Kevin unpack the concept of organizational pivots through real-world examples, from manufacturing supply challenges to Domino’s Pizza’s legendary turnaround, and offer practical advice for how sales leaders can prepare their teams to thrive through transformation.   Key Topics Discussed The Only Constant Is Change (00:16) — Why modern business demands leaders who can adapt and guide teams through shifting markets. The Power of the Pivot (02:52) — Kevin explains what a pivot really means and how small, consistent course corrections can transform outcomes. Real-World Example: Domino’s Pizza Reinvention (06:10) — A masterclass in transparency and messaging that rebuilt a brand from the ground up. Training as the Foundation of Change (09:21) — Sean breaks down how strategic training helps sales teams pivot effectively into new markets or industries. Peer Learning and the Role of Community (12:33) — The importance of collaboration, conversation, and communities like the B2B Sales Lab for accelerating sales success.   Key Quotes “As CEOs and sales leaders, we have to lead through change. What got us here is not going to get us there.” — Sean O’Shaughnessey (01:34) “Sometimes people don’t need a 180-degree pivot. They just need to be repointed — one degree of change over time can take you somewhere entirely new.” — Kevin Lawson (04:42) “The first part of making a pivot is planting your foot — and that’s training. You can’t change direction until your team knows how.” — Sean O’Shaughnessey (11:22)   Additional Resources Book Mentioned: Who Moved My Cheese? by Spencer Johnson — A timeless read on navigating change in business and life. https://a.co/d/cCEXuwA Community Resource: B2B Sales Lab — A peer-driven community for B2B sales professionals and leaders to exchange ideas, test messaging, and sharpen their skills. www.b2b-sales-lab.com   A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast Before the day ends, write down five things you could do to change the trajectory of your sales growth or turnaround. Then, rank them: Which are big strategic plays? Which are medium-term moves? Which are quick wins you could execute immediately? Assign probability, effort, and impact to each, then commit to one action this week. Leadership begins with deliberate motion, not massive overhauls.   Summary This episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales is a must-listen for anyone serious about sales management, revenue generation, and business acumen. Sean and Kevin blend experience and strategy to reveal how great sales leaders pivot, not by abandoning what works, but by rethinking sales processes, evolving messaging, and driving value selling through training and intelligent adaptation. Whether you’re running a small sales team or scaling a multimillion-dollar operation, this discussion will inspire you to make the smart moves that lead to long-term sales success and sustainable revenue management. Tune in, take notes, and start your next pivot today. B2B Sales Lab is a private, member-led community for sales professionals who want actionable insights, not theory. It’s a space to ask real questions, share proven practices, and connect with others who are serious about improving revenue performance. Designed and led by veteran sales leaders, the Lab is where strategy meets execution. Join us at b2b-sales-lab.com   You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - Sean@NewSales.Expert - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/   You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - kevin@lighthousesalesadvisors.com - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/   You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin   You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/

When a company hires or promotes its first sales manager, expectations run high, but clarity can be low. In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Sean O’Shaughnessey and Kevin Lawson unpack what the first 90 days should look like for a new sales leader. Whether you’re a CEO onboarding a new manager or that manager stepping into the role themselves, this discussion provides practical guidance on setting realistic expectations, building trust, and establishing the foundation for long-term sales success and revenue growth.   Key Topics Discussed Setting Realistic Expectations as an Owner (02:00) Kevin explores how CEOs should frame success during the first 90 days, emphasizing the importance of patience, trust-building, and understanding that sales management transformation takes time. Avoiding the “Fix This First” Trap (06:30) Sean cautions business owners against dumping old personnel problems on new leaders, explaining why cleaning up someone else’s mess undermines early business acumen and trust. Building Relationships and Learning the Business (08:30) Sean shares tactical advice for new sales managers: conduct one-on-ones, ride along with reps, and build rapport across departments, marketing, operations, and finance, to master internal sales processes and interdepartmental alignment. Understanding Internal and External Tools (11:12) Kevin discusses discovering hidden tools and levers, people, systems, vendor programs, or product configurations that can immediately improve team performance and value-selling opportunities. Repackaging and Aligning Offers to the Market (12:30) The hosts outline how sales leaders can rethink product structures and messaging to better serve customer needs, thereby improving revenue management and profitability.   Key Quotes “Trust is a currency. It has to be earned by customers, by salespeople, by peers, and you can’t buy it in the first 30 days.”,  Kevin Lawson (03:00) “Don’t make your new sales leader the bad guy. If there’s a tough personnel decision, handle it before they start.”,  Sean O’Shaughnessey (07:00) “Learn your company inside and out. If you don’t know who runs manufacturing or how the supply chain works, you can’t lead your salespeople effectively.”,  Sean O’Shaughnessey (10:00) “You might have 20 products, but 100 possible solutions. The smart leader finds ways to repackage and sell in ways the customer actually values.”,  Kevin Lawson (13:00)   Additional Resources Episodes on sales onboarding, marketing alignment, and ideal customer profiling (ICP) were referenced throughout the conversation. Explore more insights and tools for sales leaders at b2b-sales-lab.com.   A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast Create a 90-Day Integration Plan. If you’re a new sales manager, spend your first month listening and learning. Conduct one-on-ones with every salesperson, schedule cross-department meetings, and document what each function needs from sales. In the second month, identify process gaps and start designing improvements. By the third month, implement one or two visible wins, such as improving forecasting accuracy or clarifying sales messaging, to demonstrate value and build momentum.   Summary Your first 90 days as a sales leader can define your entire tenure. Sean and Kevin reveal that success isn’t about quick wins, it’s about developing relationships, earning trust, and understanding the organization’s systems before making bold changes. For CEOs, this episode provides a masterclass in setting expectations. For new leaders, it’s a roadmap to transition from individual contributor to strategic operator. Listen to this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales to learn how to step confidently into leadership, master sales strategies, and drive lasting revenue generation through purposeful sales management and business acumen. To understand if your company is doing a great job in sales, take this quick and easy assessment: Sean's Assessment: https://newsales.expert/b2b-sales-capability-assessment/ Kevin's Assessment: https://salesxceleration.com/sales-agility-assessment/?locationid=28995327   B2B Sales Lab is a private, member-led community for sales professionals who want actionable insights, not theory. It’s a space to ask real questions, share proven practices, and connect with others who are serious about improving revenue performance. Designed and led by veteran sales leaders, the Lab is where strategy meets execution. Join us at b2b-sales-lab.com   You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - Sean@NewSales.Expert - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/   You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - kevin@lighthousesalesadvisors.com - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/   You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin   You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/

In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey dive into the critical relationship between sales and marketing. For small businesses, founder-led sales teams, and even larger organizations, aligning sales processes with marketing efforts is crucial for sustained long-term revenue growth. Sean and Kevin break down practical strategies to ensure your messaging resonates, your sales team is empowered, and your marketing activities directly support sales success. Whether you’re focused on account-based marketing, field events, or digital presence, this episode offers actionable insights on sales management, business acumen, and value selling strategies.   Key Topics Discussed Marketing and Sales Alignment in Small Businesses (00:33) – Why sales leaders must sometimes wear the marketing hat. Account-Based Marketing and Customized Messaging (01:20) – How sales professionals can market effectively to their most important accounts. Field Marketing and Local Presence (04:00) – Using shows, chambers of commerce, and local references to build credibility. The “And, Not Or” Mindset for Sales Leaders (05:23) – Balancing product, pipeline, and partner relationships to fuel revenue generation. Digital Presence and Website Strategy (10:00) – Why outsourcing web design and aligning messaging online is key to credibility. Consistency Between Messaging, Sales, and Marketing Collateral (12:34) – Building trust by keeping everything in sync.   Key Quotes Sean O’Shaughnessey (01:57): “Marketing is about getting noticed, getting people to pay attention to you. It’s not about making the sale—that’s what salespeople are for.” Kevin Lawson (05:23): “The cavalry’s not coming in small business. It’s up to you to do the critical thinking that drives pipeline, customer relationships, and revenue management.” Sean O’Shaughnessey (12:52): “If it’s on the website, then it’s real. That alignment between what sales says and what marketing publishes builds trust.”   Additional Resources Chamber of Commerce networking events Professional website design services (local agencies, universities, or freelance designers) Account-based marketing resources for small and mid-sized businesses   A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast Audit your messaging for alignment. Take one of your current sales presentations or proposals and compare it directly to your website and marketing collateral. Ask: Do they reinforce each other, or do they create confusion? Any gaps between your sales strategies and marketing assets should be closed immediately. This step builds credibility, strengthens customer trust, and accelerates revenue generation.   Summary Sales and marketing alignment isn’t a luxury—it’s a necessity for sales success. In this episode, Sean and Kevin show how sales leaders can think like marketers, leverage field events, and develop consistent messaging to fuel business growth. If you’re ready to sharpen your sales processes, elevate your value selling, and connect more effectively with your market, this conversation is packed with insights. 🎧 Don’t miss this one—download the episode now and start applying these strategies to your own revenue generation journey!  

As the year draws to a close, sales leaders and professionals are already looking ahead to the next year. In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Sean O’Shaughnessey and Kevin Lawson dig into the perennial challenge of lead generation, the importance of collaborating with marketing, and why proactive planning is essential for sales success. From refining your messaging to building thought leadership, this conversation is packed with strategies to help you drive revenue generation and sharpen your sales processes. Key Topics Discussed Why Salespeople Always Say “I Need More Leads” (01:00) The Importance of Partnering with Marketing for Effective Sales Strategies (03:40) Going Beyond Marketing—Referrals, Networking, and Thought Leadership (05:07) Leveraging LinkedIn and Personal Branding to Generate Leads (06:25) The Three Things Every Salesperson Really Sells (09:00) Planning with Intention: Mapping the Next 12 Months for Sales Success (12:57) Key Quotes Sean O’Shaughnessey (01:48): “You as a salesperson… it’s your job to sit with the marketing people you have and map out the next 12 months of how to get better leads and cover your territory more effectively.” Kevin Lawson (03:40): “Go down the hallway, knock on the door and say, here’s what I’m working on, what are you working on, and how can I help? Be a resource, be a partner to marketing.” Sean O’Shaughnessey (09:24): “There are three things you sell: your product, your company, and—most importantly—you.” Kevin Lawson (13:16): “If you’re only giving 50% effort to your professional practice, you can’t expect championship-level results.” Additional Resources B2B Sales Lab Community – A peer group for sales professionals to exchange best practices and strengthen their sales management and revenue generation capabilities. Go to https://b2b-sales-lab.com/ A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast Schedule a working session with your marketing team this week. Map out the next 12 months of sales and marketing activities, focusing on how you’ll generate leads, build messaging, and increase visibility in your target accounts. Even if it starts with a simple spreadsheet, writing down the plan creates accountability and aligns sales strategies with marketing efforts. Summary This episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales is a must-listen for sales leaders and professionals ready to elevate their business acumen. Sean and Kevin cut through the noise with practical insights on sales processes, value selling, and revenue management. Whether it’s refining your messaging, building your presence on LinkedIn, or creating opportunities for thought leadership, the conversation offers actionable sales strategies to fuel your growth. Tune in now and take the first step toward building a stronger pipeline and accelerating your sales success. To understand if your company is doing a great job in sales, take this quick and easy assessment: Sean's Assessment: https://newsales.expert/b2b-sales-capability-assessment/ Kevin's Assessment: https://salesxceleration.com/sales-agility-assessment/?locationid=28995327   B2B Sales Lab is a private, member-led community for sales professionals who want actionable insights, not theory. It’s a space to ask real questions, share proven practices, and connect with others who are serious about improving revenue performance. Designed and led by veteran sales leaders, the Lab is where strategy meets execution. Join us at b2b-sales-lab.com   You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - Sean@NewSales.Expert - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/   You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - kevin@lighthousesalesadvisors.com - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/   You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin   You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/

Sales leaders and sales professionals: are your territories setting you up for sales success or holding your team back?  In this episode, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey tackle the critical role of defining territories, commission plans, and account strategies. From building fair but effective territories to creating actionable plans that drive revenue generation, this conversation blends sales management insight with practical sales strategies to help you win more consistently and grow with intention. Key Topics Discussed Defining Territories with Purpose (00:23) – Why intentional design matters more than “spray and pray” selling. Fairness vs. Evenness in Territories (01:27) – Sean explains why territories don’t need to be identical, but they must be logical and fair to prevent turnover. How Salespeople Should Approach New Territories (04:53) – Kevin outlines the mindset and business acumen required to succeed under a new commission plan. Planning Ahead for Sales Success (08:21) – Sean breaks down how early planning impacts Q1 results, revenue management, and long-term sales processes. The Power of Written Territory and Account Plans (12:23) – Kevin explains how documenting your strategies in a CRM enhances value selling and accountability. Key Quotes Sean O’Shaughnessey (01:10): “When you’re driving down the road, you’re not driving with the mirrors—you’re driving with the windshield. Defining your territory is incredibly important to know where you’re going.” Kevin Lawson (06:00): “A new commission plan is not an indictment of past performance; it’s your executives telling you how and where they want the company to grow.” Kevin Lawson (12:42): “When a plan is written, it’s real. You win more often when your goals and account strategies are captured, documented, and revisited.” A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast Write down your territory and account growth plan before the new year begins. Identify 20 accounts to expand, document the cast of characters (champions, blockers, decision-makers), and map a path to increase revenue generation. Then, enter this plan into your CRM to hold yourself accountable and align with your company’s sales strategies. Summary Defining sales territories creates opportunities for consistent sales success, fair expectations, and scalable revenue management. In this episode, Sean and Kevin deliver practical guidance on territory design, commission planning, and how salespeople can leverage written strategies to win bigger deals. Whether you’re a sales leader refining your sales management approach or a salesperson building momentum, this episode is packed with actionable business acumen and proven sales processes to elevate your results. B2B Sales Lab is a private, member-led community for sales professionals who want actionable insights, not theory. It’s a space to ask real questions, share proven practices, and connect with others who are serious about improving revenue performance. Designed and led by veteran sales leaders, the Lab is where strategy meets execution. Join us at b2b-sales-lab.com   You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - Sean@NewSales.Expert - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/   You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - kevin@lighthousesalesadvisors.com - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/   You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin   You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/

As the year draws to a close, sales leaders and business owners face a critical challenge: preparing for growth in the year ahead. In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey dive deep into sales management strategies that set the stage for long-term sales success. From refining compensation plans and aligning territories to planning product lifecycles and avoiding the dreaded “hockey stick” growth trap, this conversation is packed with insights on business acumen, value selling, and revenue generation strategies that every sales leader should master. Key Topics Discussed 01:00 – Planning Beyond This Year: Why sales leaders need to start preparing now for next year’s revenue generation and sales processes. 02:11 – Building Smarter Compensation Plans: Evaluating and refining comp structures to drive sales success and attract top talent. 03:13 – Product Lifecycle & AI Readiness: How shifts in markets and technology demand updates to your offerings and messaging. 05:00 – Departmental Alignment for Growth: Understanding how revenue management and sales growth affect every department in your business. 07:12 – Right People, Right Roles: Assessing whether your sales team is positioned for success in the next stage of your growth plan. 11:20 – Avoiding the “Hockey Stick” Trap: Why spreading growth evenly across years is a better long-term sales strategy. Key Quotes Sean O’Shaughnessey (01:07): “If I asked you to write out your three-year plan, next year already knocks off the first year. Are you one-third of the way there, or do you need to rethink your path?” Kevin Lawson (02:33): “Be planning ahead. Compensation plans aren’t a set-and-forget item—you need to revisit them every year to make sure they’re delivering the right results.” Sean O’Shaughnessey (07:59): “Do I have the right people in the right place in my sales organization for next year? Not every salesperson has to leave, but maybe their role needs to evolve.” Kevin Lawson (11:38): “You don’t want that third year of your plan to be a hockey stick. Don’t put yourself in a position where you suddenly need 40% growth in one year to hit your goals.” Additional Resources B2B Sales Lab: A peer community for sales leaders and professionals to sharpen strategies, exchange best practices, and get actionable feedback. EOS Framework: For leaders who want to align messaging, sales strategies, and revenue management with long-term goals. A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast Review and finalize your sales compensation plans by December 1st. This gives your team enough time to digest changes, ask questions, and align their sales strategies before the new year begins. Waiting until January leaves your salespeople unprepared, which can delay revenue generation and momentum. Summary This episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales arms you with practical sales management strategies to align your sales processes, compensation plans, and territories with your long-term growth goals. Sean and Kevin reveal how to prepare for next year while avoiding common pitfalls like underperforming roles, misaligned departments, or unrealistic “hockey stick” growth expectations. If you want actionable insights into value selling, revenue management, and positioning your team for lasting sales success, this is an episode you won’t want to miss. To understand if your company is doing a great job in sales, take this quick and easy assessment: Sean's Assessment: https://newsales.expert/b2b-sales-capability-assessment/ Kevin's Assessment: https://salesxceleration.com/sales-agility-assessment/?locationid=28995327   B2B Sales Lab is a private, member-led community for sales professionals who want actionable insights, not theory. It’s a space to ask real questions, share proven practices, and connect with others who are serious about improving revenue performance. Designed and led by veteran sales leaders, the Lab is where strategy meets execution. Join us at b2b-sales-lab.com   You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - Sean@NewSales.Expert - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/   You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - kevin@lighthousesalesadvisors.com - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/   You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin   You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/

In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey build on last week’s discussion of qualification methodologies and take the conversation further—into how these frameworks should live inside your CRM. From aligning sales processes with the buyer’s journey to enforcing accountability at each stage, this conversation offers practical strategies that every sales leader and salesperson can implement. Expect a deep dive into sales management, revenue generation, sales processes, and how value selling thrives when marketing and sales teams work in sync.   Key Topics Discussed Why your CRM is the right home for qualification methodologies (00:48) Best practices for embedding qualification questions into sales processes (02:01) How sales leaders enforce discipline and consistency across teams (03:18) Eliminating Excel spreadsheets and consolidating data for effective revenue management (05:12) Aligning marketing collateral with sales strategies to support qualification and value selling (06:00) Real-world stories of late-stage deal failures caused by missing buyer-side approvals (10:21)   Key Quotes Kevin Lawson (05:12): “Oh, please, oh, please evacuate Excel spreadsheets from your solution guide… For the purposes of this discussion, we want to strenuously avoid having third-party apps disconnected from your system.” Sean O’Shaughnessey (10:40): “There is nothing worse than missing your quarterly number because you didn’t know how they were going to buy… Knowing the paperwork process is the difference between celebrating the win and missing your commission check.” Kevin Lawson (14:10): “Having a qualification methodology mapped into your CRM, aligned with a buyer’s journey and supported by marketing resources, gives you a fully wrapped system that prevents that dreaded CEO call asking, ‘What’s the status of that deal?’”   Additional Resources HubSpot Blog: A Guide to Sales Qualification Frameworkshttps://blog.hubspot.com/sales/6-popular-sales-methodologies-summarized Join the B2B Sales Lab for 90 days free and access practical community discussions on sales strategies, revenue management, and messaging. https://b2b-sales-lab.com CRM platforms mentioned: HubSpot (https://www.hubspot.com/), Pipedrive (https://www.pipedrive.com/), Salesforce (https://www.salesforce.com/), Membrain (https://www.membrain.com/)   A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast Embed your qualification methodology directly into your CRM, tied to each stage of your sales process. Don’t let critical deal information reside inside spreadsheets or Word docs; configure your CRM so progression requires those qualification questions to be answered. This not only improves sales accuracy but also enhances revenue management, ensures consistency across your team, and creates alignment with marketing resources to drive value selling.   Summary This episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales is a must-listen for anyone serious about building sustainable sales success. Sean and Kevin reveal how sales strategies such as qualification methodologies come to life when fully integrated into CRM-driven sales processes. You’ll learn why sales management must prioritize data consistency, how business acumen prevents late-stage deal disasters, and how aligning messaging between sales and marketing fuels stronger revenue generation. If you want practical insights on improving your sales processes and elevating your organization’s performance, download this episode today and start putting these best practices to work.  

In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey delve into the crucial role of deal qualification in driving sales success. From simple frameworks like BANT to advanced methodologies such as MEDDIC and MEDDPICCC, Kevin and Sean explain how consistent sales processes, value selling, and business acumen can sharpen forecasting, strengthen messaging, and ultimately accelerate revenue generation. Whether you’re managing a sales team or selling solo, this discussion will help you refine your sales strategies and improve your revenue management outcomes.   Key Topics Discussed The cooking analogy for sales qualification – how preparing a meal mirrors building consistent sales processes  Why full qualification matters – reducing forecast slippage, aligning solutions to customer needs, and driving predictable revenue generation  BANT explained – Budget, Authority, Need, and Timeline as a simple framework for qualifying deals  Beyond BANT – an overview of advanced methodologies such as SPIN, SPICED, and NEAT for value selling in complex deals  Deep dive into MEDDIC and MEDDPICCC – why metrics, the economic buyer, and champions are essential for enterprise-level sales success  The importance of sales management consistency – ensuring every salesperson in an organization qualifies deals with the same discipline    Key Quotes Kevin Lawson : “When you close things better, when you have more deal intelligence or customer intelligence or relationship intelligence gained through a qualifying methodology, you end up being better able to serve a customer.” Sean O’Shaughnessey : “If you have five salespeople trying to qualify deals, you want them to qualify them the same way—consistency matters because it creates repeatable sales success.” Sean O’Shaughnessey : “Every deal needs a champion. If you can get a champion to sell for you when you’re not there, you are far more likely to win.”   Additional Resources HubSpot Blog: A Guide to Sales Qualification Frameworkshttps://blog.hubspot.com/sales/6-popular-sales-methodologies-summarized The Qualified Sales Leader by John McMahon is an essential read on MEDDIC from one of the most successful sales leaders in software history. https://a.co/d/76089W7 Join the B2B Sales Lab for 90 days free and access practical community discussions on sales strategies, revenue management, and messaging. https://b2b-sales-lab.com   A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast Select and consistently implement one sales qualification framework across all your deals. Whether you adopt BANT for simplicity or MEDDPICCC for enterprise-level selling, consistency in qualification builds stronger forecasts, improves customer alignment, and accelerates revenue generation. Decide on one methodology, train your team, and hold yourself accountable to using it every time.   Why You Should Listen This episode is packed with practical insights for salespeople, managers, and business leaders committed to improving revenue management and sales success. Kevin and Sean take you from everyday analogies to advanced enterprise strategies, showing why consistent qualification is the backbone of predictable growth. If you want sharper sales processes, better forecasting, and stronger messaging that supports value selling, you won’t want to miss this conversation. Download now and start applying these proven sales strategies to your own pipeline.   B2B Sales Lab is a private, member-led community for sales professionals who want actionable insights, not theory. It’s a space to ask real questions, share proven practices, and connect with others who are serious about improving revenue performance. Designed and led by veteran sales leaders, the Lab is where strategy meets execution. Join us at b2b-sales-lab.com   You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - Sean@NewSales.Expert - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/   You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - kevin@lighthousesalesadvisors.com - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/   You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin   You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/

In today’s fast-changing sales landscape, everyone is talking about AI, automation, and digital tools, but are these the keys to sales success? In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey explore why documenting your sales processes, defining your ideal client profile (ICP), and sharpening your value selling approach must come before chasing shiny new technologies. Whether you’re leading a sales team or building revenue generation strategies as a business owner, this episode delivers practical advice for aligning business acumen with modern sales strategies.   Key Topics Discussed [00:01:00] The foundational role of sales processes: Why documenting your sales processes is more important than rushing into automation or AI. [00:03:00] Defining your Ideal Client Profile (ICP): How knowing precisely who you should sell to drives revenue management and sales success. [00:06:00] AI without ICP is useless: Kevin explains why AI and automation fail without strong sales strategies and a written ICP. [00:09:00] Automating bad processes makes junk faster: Sean shares insights from decades in sales and automation. [00:12:00] Real growth impact: Data showing how companies with a documented ICP experience higher win rates, deal closure, and long-term revenue generation.   Key Quotes Kevin Lawson [00:06:00]: “AI tools don’t work unless they are programmed to know what you’re trying to look for. If your value proposition and ICP aren’t documented, you’ve basically bought another untrained person.” Sean O’Shaughnessey [00:10:23]: “If you automate a bad process, all you do is make junk faster. Get the basics right first.” Sean O’Shaughnessey [00:12:57]: “Companies with a documented ICP have an account win rate 68% higher than those without one. That’s the power of clarity in sales processes.”   Additional Resources Exclusive whitepapers on Ideal Client Profiles and Value Selling Propositions are available inside the B2B Sales Lab Community. www.b2b-sales-lab.com and go to the Sales Resources section. Previous episode: Winning Sales Strategies for Productive, High-Impact Pipeline Reviews https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/winning-sales-strategies-for-productive-high-impact/id1668686029?i=1000721736213   A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast Write down your Ideal Client Profile (ICP). Even if you think you already know your best customers, putting it in writing transforms sales management and revenue generation. A written ICP sharpens your messaging, aligns your sales processes, and empowers value selling. Without it, AI tools and automation will fail to deliver meaningful results.   Why You Should Listen If you’re serious about sales success, this episode is a must. Kevin and Sean break through the noise of AI hype to uncover the timeless truths of revenue management, sales strategies, and business acumen. Learn how to strengthen your sales processes, improve messaging, and drive consistent revenue generation. Packed with stories, data, and practical wisdom, this episode equips you with the clarity needed to win more deals and build long-term sales success. B2B Sales Lab is a private, member-led community for sales professionals who want actionable insights, not theory. It’s a space to ask real questions, share proven practices, and connect with others who are serious about improving revenue performance. Designed and led by veteran sales leaders, the Lab is where strategy meets execution. Join us at b2b-sales-lab.com   You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - Sean@NewSales.Expert - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/   You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - kevin@lighthousesalesadvisors.com - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/   You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin   You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/

Pipeline reviews don’t need to feel like an ambush. In this episode, Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey break down how to turn pipeline meetings into high-value working sessions that improve sales management, strengthen sales processes, and accelerate revenue generation. The conversation focuses on preparation discipline, trust, and transparency, as well as a practical playbook for advancing complex deals through relationship mapping and peer-to-peer executive engagement. You’ll hear straightforward sales strategies you can implement immediately, whether you lead a large enterprise team or a small, founder-led organization. Expect a sharp focus on business acumen, value selling, and the day-to-day messaging that keeps deals moving. The result is a meeting format that fuels sales success and better revenue management, not another hour of defensive status reporting.   Key Topics Discussed Make pipeline reviews not suck — Focus the agenda on the few deals that genuinely need help; skip deep dives on healthy opportunities. [~00:00:00] The salesperson’s prep checklist — Current notes, clear qualification status, and a concrete next step; never open with “I need to get a meeting.” [~00:03:00] Trust, transparency, and speed — Why open admission of gaps prevents executive “gotchas” and keeps the team collaborative. [~00:04:34–00:05:34] Taming the “big deal” distraction — How sales leaders manage CEO attention and ensure one opportunity doesn’t hijack the meeting. [~00:07:52–00:08:20] Relationship mapping for top deals — Title-to-title engagement, executive assignments, and the “11-on-11” football metaphor for flawless execution. [~00:09:00–00:11:55] Adapting for smaller orgs — Three-on-three analogy, “weaponize” your internal team as peer resources, and coach reps to lead 1:1s. [~00:12:30–00:15:06]   Key Quotes Sean O’Shaughnessey [~00:01:36]: “Bring up the ones that hurt, the deals where you need help. Wouldn’t it be nice to get helped in a pipeline review instead of just being told to ‘get your ass out there and go work on it’?” Kevin Lawson [~00:05:00]: “Transparency is our key that will keep us moving forward and fast. Sales pipeline meetings don’t have to be the Spanish Inquisition.” Sean O’Shaughnessey [~00:11:34]: “Run your top deals like you’re running a football team, every player knows their assignment, and you execute flawlessly.” Kevin Lawson [~00:14:33]: “For one-to-ones, the salesperson should be leading the meeting, your job is to coach them to bring challenges you can clear.”   Additional Resources (mentioned in the episode) Sales Meeting Agenda Templates — Free downloadable agendas for effective pipeline reviews and 1:1s (from Sean and Kevin’s sites). B2B Sales Lab Community — A peer-led forum to refine sales strategies, strengthen messaging, and accelerate revenue generation. https://b2b-sales-lab.com/   A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast Adopt the “Help-First Pipeline Review” and Relationship Map. Before your next review, split your pipeline into two lists: On-Track and Needs Help. Use meeting time almost exclusively on the “Needs Help” list. For each flagged deal, arrive with: (1) current status and qualification level, (2) the single next step, and (3) a relationship map that pairs your execs and functional leaders title-to-title with the customer’s counterparts (CEO↔CEO, CFO↔CFO, VP Eng↔VP Eng). Assign those internal players specific outreach tasks and deadlines. This simple shift transforms pipeline reviews into working sessions that improve sales management, sharpen sales processes, and advance value-based conversations, fast. Two quick tips to lock it in: Never start with “I need to get a meeting.” Instead, say, “I’m trying to reach Larry; here are the three touches I’ve already made and my next move.” Preempt “big deal” derailments by updating its status in CRM ahead of time and summarizing it briefly; then return to the prepared “Needs Help” list.   Summary If pipeline reviews feel like public performance reviews, this conversation will reset the culture. Kevin and Sean outline a decisive, repeatable approach that blends business acumen, crisp messaging, and practical value selling to move deals. By prioritizing help over inspection, mapping peer-to-peer relationships, and coaching reps to lead, you’ll turn a dreaded ritual into a lever for sales success and consistent revenue management. Queue it up, your next pipeline meeting can actually be the best hour of your sales week.   B2B Sales Lab is a private, member-led community for sales professionals who want actionable insights, not theory. It’s a space to ask real questions, share proven practices, and connect with others who are serious about improving revenue performance. Designed and led by veteran sales leaders, the Lab is where strategy meets execution. Join us at b2b-sales-lab.com   You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - Sean@NewSales.Expert - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/   You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - kevin@lighthousesalesadvisors.com - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/   You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin   You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/

When your sales pipeline hits a wall—or worse, goes completely flat—it can feel like you’re spinning your wheels. In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey dive deep into what to do when your sales team is facing a revenue generation stall. This is a fast-paced, actionable conversation focused entirely on what sales leaders can do to recharge a stalled pipeline—without relying on marketing. Whether you’re in B2B tech, manufacturing, or professional services, this episode will equip you with practical, high-impact tactics to get your sales process moving forward again.   Key Topics Discussed The “Flat Tire” Sales Pipeline Analogy (00:00) Why pipelines go flat—even after big wins—and how leaders can reframe the issue. The Power of Referrals and Networking (03:00) Sean’s method for turning satisfied customers into a referral engine—complete with a ready-to-send intro letter. Expanding Through Customer Proximity and Chambers of Commerce (05:00) Leveraging existing accounts and local business events to rapidly refill the funnel. Using PESTEL for Industry-Relevant Messaging (07:00) Kevin shares a practical framework for creating insightful sales conversations that show business acumen and relevance. Requalifying Open Deals with the Right Buyers (08:00) How to use sales processes and CRMs to validate opportunities—and why “access to power” is non-negotiable. Getting to the Economic Buyer—and Asking for the Order (11:00) A breakdown of how to engage decision-makers, handle their buying criteria, and close with confidence.   Key Quotes “I don’t care what you sell—coolants, software, promotional gear—if you’re not prospecting today, your pipeline will let you down tomorrow.” — Sean O’Shaughnessey (01:07) “We’re not a demo organization. If the demo alone sold your product, you wouldn’t need a salesperson.” — Kevin Lawson (10:00) “If your salespeople can’t tell you who the economic buyer is, it’s time for you to get in the car and go meet them yourself.” — Sean O’Shaughnessey (12:00)   Additional Resources Mentioned B2B Sales Lab Community – A peer-led space for sales professionals and leaders to grow, collaborate, and share sales strategies. (Free 90-day trial with credit card to keep out spammers.) www.b2b-sales-lab.com PESTEL Framework – A structured approach for bringing value to sales conversations by focusing on Political, Economic, Social, Technological, Environmental, and Legal issues impacting buyers.   A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast Requalify Every Deal in Your Pipeline This Week Sales leaders: pull your team into a pipeline review and ask a simple, high-stakes question about every open opportunity—“If you walked in with a PO today, could your contact sign it?” If the answer is “no,” that deal is not qualified. Use this exercise to reinforce accountability, focus on real economic buyers, and prioritize deals that can convert into revenue. Don't just forecast—verify.   Why You Should Listen Now If you’ve ever looked at your pipeline and felt that creeping sense of panic, this episode is your emergency roadside kit. Sean and Kevin don’t waste time with fluff—they deliver real sales strategies rooted in decades of experience with sales management, business acumen, and revenue generation. From value selling tactics to reengaging your best customers, this conversation is loaded with sales success insights you can implement today. Plug in, take notes, and start patching your pipeline with purpose.

In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey dive deep into one of the most misunderstood dynamics in business: the relationship between sales and marketing. Pulled directly from a thought-provoking question inside the B2B Sales Lab community, this conversation explores how sales teams can contribute meaningfully to marketing efforts and why that collaboration drives better revenue generation. Whether you lead a sales team, run marketing campaigns, or wear both hats in a small business, this episode gives you practical strategies to align your teams, sharpen your messaging, and enhance sales success.   Key Topics Discussed The Role of Sales in Marketing & Content Development (00:00) How sales leaders can become strategic contributors to content and campaign direction. Being the Voice of the Customer Across the Business (00:02) Why sales must act as a conduit of market intelligence, not just for marketing but across production, delivery, and operations. Sales Behavior That Builds or Breaks Internal Trust (00:04) The importance of accountability and humility when offering feedback to other departments. Making Marketing a Regular Part of Sales Meetings (00:08) A tactical breakdown of how to engage marketing in the sales rhythm without derailing productivity. Field Collaboration: Invite Your Internal Teams to Ride Along (00:10) Why taking engineers or operations managers on customer calls creates stronger cross-functional empathy and better customer experiences. Marketing Assets: Create Them, Use Them, Give Feedback (00:12) How to close the feedback loop on content effectiveness and ensure sales uses what marketing builds.   Key Quotes “Sales is accountable for driving the revenue, but sales is also accountable for working with marketing to get to a market-facing message that addresses current needs.” — Kevin Lawson (00:00) “Your job in sales is to be the best-run department in the company. If you’re not, your opinion probably doesn’t matter.” — Sean O’Shaughnessey (00:08) “Please, oh please, use the tools your marketing team creates for you. If you don’t, that’s on you.” — Kevin Lawson (00:12) “There’s no better way to get internal teams aligned with customers than to take them on sales calls. Let them breathe your air and eat at Burger King between meetings.” — Sean O’Shaughnessey (00:11)   Additional Resources B2B Sales Lab Community: A peer group for sales professionals focused on sharpening sales processes, messaging, and revenue management. www.b2b-sales-lab.com   A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast Hold a joint sales-marketing meeting each quarter. Schedule a dedicated 30-minute session within your sales team’s recurring meeting where your marketing counterpart joins to review current messaging, upcoming campaigns, and voice-of-the-customer insights. Let marketing ask questions, present new content, and gather sales feedback. Use this as a structured loop to align both teams on business acumen, sales strategies, and revenue goals.   Why You Should Listen Now If you’ve ever wondered why your sales messaging isn’t landing or why marketing feels “out of touch,” this episode is for you. Kevin and Sean pull back the curtain on how high-performing sales organizations dissolve silos, share real-time customer feedback, and co-create assets that drive revenue. Whether you're a VP of Sales, a marketing leader, or a business owner trying to scale effectively, you'll walk away with ideas you can implement this week to align your teams for better revenue generation and sales success. Tune in now and start building the team your customers deserve.

When a top-performing salesperson refuses to follow the rules, tensions flare, and your culture might suffer. In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey tackle a question straight from their B2B Sales Lab community: What do you do with a sales rockstar who drives the rest of the team nuts? If you've ever struggled with managing high-output, low-alignment team members, this conversation is packed with valuable insights, practical strategies, and real-world advice to help you strike a balance between performance and healthy team dynamics. Tune in for battle-tested tips on sales management, building a high-integrity sales culture, and protecting your company's long-term revenue generation strategy.   Key Topics Discussed Establishing Clear Norms in Sales Teams – Why your “top dog” needs to play by the same rules as everyone else, and how undefined expectations damage sales processes (Approx. 02:00) The Power of Documented Standards and Culture Alignment – How lack of structure in small businesses creates room for chaos—and what to do about it (Approx. 03:30) Tactical Solutions for Managing Lone Wolves – Real examples of how to realign high performers through mentorship and responsibility (Approx. 09:00) Creating a Unified Sales Culture Without Crushing Performance – Why culture eats strategy for breakfast, especially in sales teams (Approx. 04:30) Using Silence, Expectations, and Consistency to Set Boundaries – Kevin shares how saying “no” and standing firm protects team cohesion and customer relationships (Approx. 12:00)   Key Quotes "Culture is probably the most important thing you possibly can have—and it starts with setting clear expectations." — Sean O’Shaughnessey (Approx. 06:05) "Sales culture will eat strategy for breakfast. Culture always wins in the long run." — Kevin Lawson (Approx. 04:39) "Sometimes you have to accept a little current pain to create future gain for your entire organization." — Kevin Lawson (Approx. 13:00) "If you're the person who colors outside the lines and won’t adjust… maybe you just don’t belong here." — Sean O’Shaughnessey (Approx. 08:30)   Additional Resources Learn more about the B2B Sales Lab community: https://b2b-sales-lab.com   A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast Assign a High-Performer as a Mentor to Drive Culture Alignment If you’re dealing with a rule-breaking top performer, try this: assign them as a mentor to a junior rep. This strategic move puts them in a leadership position where they must model the very behavior they’ve been resisting, updating the CRM, following your sales strategies, and representing your company messaging. This peer responsibility often encourages cultural realignment without confrontation. Why You Should Listen to This EpisodeThis episode is a must-listen for sales managers, business owners, and team leaders wrestling with the dilemma of performance vs. process. Sean and Kevin don’t just talk theory—they give real, implementable strategies that can help you protect your sales culture, enforce consistent sales management practices, and drive long-term revenue success. If you're aiming for scalable growth without sacrificing team cohesion, this episode delivers practical wisdom and a few gut-check moments. Hit play and discover how to bring even the most independent salespeople back into the fold—without losing their fire. B2B Sales Lab is a private, member-led community for sales professionals who want actionable insights, not theory. It’s a space to ask real questions, share proven practices, and connect with others who are serious about improving revenue performance. Designed and led by veteran sales leaders, the Lab is where strategy meets execution. Join us at b2b-sales-lab.com   You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - Sean@NewSales.Expert - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/   You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - kevin@lighthousesalesadvisors.com - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/   You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin   You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/

In this compelling episode, co-hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O'Shaughnessey delve into the crucial distinctions between workflows, automations, and artificial intelligence (AI), and why understanding these differences isn’t just technical trivia, but foundational to improving sales processes, enhancing sales management, and accelerating revenue generation. If you're a sales leader, business owner, or B2B rep striving to improve how you use technology to boost sales success, this episode is a must-listen. Packed with real-world examples and expert commentary, you'll walk away with a clearer understanding of how to integrate automation and AI into your selling environment without losing the human touch that drives value selling.   Key Topics Discussed The Distinction Between Workflow and Automation (approx. 01:00) Kevin and Sean explain that workflows are rule-based sequences (what should happen), while automations are system-triggered actions (when they happen). Applying Workflow and Automation to Common Sales Scenarios (approx. 03:00) Sean walks through onboarding, fulfillment, and follow-up processes that can be automated to save time and reduce human error. The Role of AI in Enhancing Sales Tasks (approx. 05:00) Discover how AI moves beyond automation by adding intelligence and insight, like writing customized thank-you messages or enriching CRM data. What Sales Leaders Should Expect from Modern CRM Systems (approx. 12:00) Sean lays out a vision of AI-enabled CRMs that proactively suggest key contacts and actions for deeper account penetration. Creating Sales Infrastructure That Supports Scale (approx. 09:00) Kevin emphasizes how business logic, automation, and AI build a more agile, informed sales team that’s prepared for disruption.   Key Quotes Kevin Lawson (approx. 00:46): “Workflows are trigger-based events that tell business logic what to do next... but automation is what makes things happen automatically, without human intervention.” Sean O'Shaughnessey (approx. 05:43): “We used to personalize thank-you letters with a person. Now we can automate that process and use AI to generate something that's still meaningful but takes no time.” Kevin Lawson (approx. 10:00): “AI plus workflows plus automation creates the bedrock for a better sales organization… a more nimble organization that can adapt to changes in the environment.” Sean O'Shaughnessey (approx. 13:08): “Does your CRM say, ‘Did you know there are three directors of manufacturing at that company?’ That’s where workflows, automation, and AI converge to fuel revenue growth.”   Additional Resources Join the B2B Sales Lab Community – A peer-driven space where sales professionals, managers, and leaders exchange insights, share best practices, and build smarter revenue systems.   A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast Audit your CRM and lead-handling processes. Ask yourself: Is my CRM working for me, or am I working for it? Review whether incoming leads are routed automatically, if emails are logged without manual entry, and whether sales leaders receive alerts on stalled opportunities. Implement at least one automation or AI-powered enhancement, such as auto-logging emails or enriching lead data, to eliminate repetitive tasks and enable your team to focus on strategic selling.   Why You Should Listen Now This episode isn’t just a primer on sales tech buzzwords; it’s a blueprint for operational excellence in B2B sales. Kevin and Sean break down complex topics with clarity and offer practical advice that can immediately improve your sales team’s responsiveness, accountability, and business acumen. If you're serious about building a scalable sales infrastructure, aligning your team with cutting-edge sales strategies, and using AI as a force multiplier for your messaging and revenue management, then queue up this episode today. You'll walk away with new ideas, sharper thinking, and a to-do list worth acting on.   B2B Sales Lab is a private, member-led community for sales professionals who want actionable insights, not theory. It’s a space to ask real questions, share proven practices, and connect with others who are serious about improving revenue performance. Designed and led by veteran sales leaders, the Lab is where strategy meets execution. Join us at b2b-sales-lab.com   You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - Sean@NewSales.Expert - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/   You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - kevin@lighthousesalesadvisors.com - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/   You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin   You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/

Is artificial intelligence coming for your sales job? Not if you understand the power of business acumen, value selling, and strategic adoption of tools that amplify, not replace, human expertise. In this high-impact episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, Kevin and Sean tackle the loud claims of AI-induced layoffs with a grounded, practical message for salespeople and sales managers: evolve or fall behind. This is not a doomsday episode; it's a wake-up call, a roadmap, and a motivational boost for anyone in the world of revenue generation, sales processes, and messaging strategy. Whether you're a frontline salesperson or a VP of sales leading a team, this conversation will inspire you to rethink how you work, what skills future-proof your career, and how AI can become your competitive advantage instead of your competitor.   Key Topics Discussed The 4 Irreplaceable Skills That Safeguard Sales Careers (01:00) Sean breaks down a framework for evaluating whether your job is AI-proof, hint: if you’re in B2B sales and good at it, you're likely already building a durable edge. How AI Mirrors the Arrival of the Internet in Sales Evolution (04:10) Kevin draws a compelling parallel between today's AI landscape and the early days of the internet, showing why this shift is just as transformative. Sales Management and Strategic Value in an AI World (02:46 & 07:31) From leadership and team building to messaging and workflow design, the episode highlights why sales managers need to think beyond quotas and towards long-term enablement. A Personal Story of Old-School Sales and the Power of Adapting Tools (08:00) Sean shares a nostalgic (and relevant) story about his father’s sales career before personal computers, offering perspective on how sales adapts across generations. Weaponizing Your Time: Using AI to Amplify Human Strengths (13:00) Kevin delivers a call to action on how to audit your own sales day and offload low-value tasks through automation, freeing up more time for high-impact strategy and consultation.   Key Quotes “You won’t lose your job to AI, you’ll lose your job to a better salesperson who uses AI.” – Sean O’Shaughnessey (01:02) “If you’re not using AI, or any sales technology, you’re not doing your job. You’re underperforming.” – Kevin Lawson (06:11) “Sales worked before computers, and it will work after AI. What changes is how well you adapt the tools available.” – Sean O’Shaughnessey (10:04) “Your time is your greatest asset, and your biggest liability, when you’re not using it to its highest utility.” – Kevin Lawson (14:00)   Additional Resources Sean’s original blog post on this topic (available in the B2B Sales Lab and LinkedIn) https://newsales.expert/2025/06/b2b-sales-in-the-age-of-ai-why-top-salespeople-will-thrive-while-the-repetitive-roles-disappear/ B2B Sales Lab community discussion on sales evolution and AI https://b2b-sales-lab.com/ Tools mentioned: ChatGPT, Perplexity, Gemini (as starting points for AI integration)   A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast Audit your sales day for repeatable, low-value tasks that can be automated. Pick one of them, like researching prospects, summarizing meeting notes, or drafting follow-ups, and replace it with an AI tool like ChatGPT or Perplexity. You’ll recover time, increase productivity, and move closer to building a modern, AI-augmented sales practice.   Final Summary This episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales isn’t about fear, it’s about focus. Sales success today requires a sharp blend of strategic thinking, tool adoption, and human skills that are nearly impossible to replicate. Kevin and Sean lay out a blueprint that every sales leader, rep, and business owner should follow to thrive in this new era. If you’re serious about sales management, value selling, messaging clarity, and staying ahead of disruption, this episode will give you the mindset and tactical clarity to act now. Don’t just listen, level up. B2B Sales Lab is a private, member-led community for sales professionals who want actionable insights, not theory. It’s a space to ask real questions, share proven practices, and connect with others who are serious about improving revenue performance. Designed and led by veteran sales leaders, the Lab is where strategy meets execution. Join us at b2b-sales-lab.com   You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - Sean@NewSales.Expert - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/   You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - kevin@lighthousesalesadvisors.com - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/   You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin   You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/  

Sales isn’t about persuasion but service, resilience, and growth. In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, co-hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey welcome sales leader and former professional athlete Jeff Parris to explore the fundamental skills that separate elite salespeople from the rest. Drawing on decades of experience, Jeff shares three often-overlooked yet foundational competencies that drive sales success, and they’re not what you’d expect. Whether you're a VP of Sales building a high-performance team or a seller looking to level up, this episode delivers sharp insights on value selling, business acumen, and sales management excellence.   Key Topics Discussed Why great salespeople see themselves as servants first (approx. 04:00) Jeff outlines why a “motivation to serve” mindset creates stronger client relationships and more consistent revenue generation. Ego Drive vs. Ego Trip: Understanding the will to win without arrogance (approx. 07:30) Learn how ego drive, a hunger to persuade for the buyer’s benefit, builds durable sales performance. Curiosity as the gateway to sales mastery (approx. 10:15) Jeff and Sean dig into why curiosity fuels continuous improvement and business acumen across every sales process. How to coach the “accidental salesperson” into a top performer (approx. 11:45) Kevin asks how people without formal sales backgrounds can thrive by developing the right mindset. Sales leaders as talent architects: Building high-performance teams (approx. 02:00) Jeff draws on his athletic past to share what makes a sales team championship-worthy.   Key Quotes “Sales isn’t something we do to people, it’s something we do for people.” — Jeff Parris (04:00) “The real goal of a great salesperson is: ‘Mr. Prospect, let me help you solve that problem.” — Sean O’Shaughnessey (05:55) “Having the right people, with the right skills, in the right seats makes winning so much easier.” — Kevin Lawson (03:36) “Curiosity leads to better solutions. Every interaction is a chance to learn and improve your craft.” — Jeff Parris (10:50)   Additional Resources The Challenger Sale by Matthew Dixon & Brent Adamson https://a.co/d/2Zpnlq7 Connect with Jeff Parris on LinkedIn: Jeffrey Parris - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffparris/ Learn more at Vector Sales Advisors: https://vectorsalesadvisors.com/   A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast Evaluate your team (and yourself) on the “Service–Drive–Curiosity” Triad. Start by asking three questions: Does this salesperson show a genuine desire to serve the customer’s goals? Do they take pride in persuading with purpose, not just for commission but impact? Are they consistently seeking to learn more about the customer, the industry, and their performance? Use these questions in your next 1-on-1 or team coaching session to align your talent strategy with the kind of sales success that sustains revenue generation.   Why You Should Listen to This Episode If you're tired of surface-level sales advice, this conversation will challenge your thinking and expand your toolkit. Jeff Parris brings clarity, conviction, and humility to what it means to lead with purpose in today’s complex B2B landscape. From building elite sales teams to refining your individual sales strategy, this episode is packed with practical wisdom for leaders, sellers, and anyone serious about mastering the craft of sales. Tune in now and discover the underestimated traits that drive extraordinary outcomes. B2B Sales Lab is a private, member-led community for sales professionals who want actionable insights, not theory. It’s a space to ask real questions, share proven practices, and connect with others who are serious about improving revenue performance. Designed and led by veteran sales leaders, the Lab is where strategy meets execution. Join us at b2b-sales-lab.com   You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - Sean@NewSales.Expert - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/   You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - kevin@lighthousesalesadvisors.com - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/   You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin   You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/

When marketing professional services, the playbook isn’t the same as product sales, and today’s episode dives into exactly why. Sean O’Shaughnessey and Kevin Lawson are joined by returning guest Chris Spanier, CEO of Carpe Diem Consulting Group and host of the Practical Actionable Marketing podcast. This conversation tackles the nuances of sales strategies for service-based businesses, blending value selling with measurable marketing and aligning both functions for stronger revenue generation. If you're a business owner, consultant, or fractional executive trying to sharpen your sales processes and improve messaging, this episode is a goldmine of practical advice.   🔑 Key Topics Discussed [02:44] Why traditional product marketing doesn’t work for professional services—and how to adapt [03:46] The importance of measuring marketing effectiveness and integrating KPIs into the sales process [07:36] How to position and market services that don’t have tangible “speeds and feeds” [08:28] Letting go of the fear of “giving away your secret sauce” in thought leadership content [10:30] Systemizing stories and messaging to scale sales efforts across a growing team [12:14] How to use lead nurturing email campaigns to drive engagement and trust over time   🗣️ Key Quotes Sean O’Shaughnessey: “Sales is a really expensive marketing arm if you're not doing really good marketing.” — [05:59] Kevin Lawson: “Tell how you win, how you help others win, and how they win when working with you—this is as key as anything in professional services.” — [10:52] Chris Spanier: “If you freely share value, people won’t take advantage of you—they’ll start trusting you. That’s the first step in real sales success.” — [08:54] “Marketing is half magic and half numbers. But the numbers—that’s where the proof comes in.” — [04:14]     📚 Additional Resources B2B Sales Lab - https://b2b-sales-lab.com/ Practical Actionable Marketing Podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/practical-actionable-marketing/id1697011310 Chris Spanier’s consulting firm: Carpe Diem Consulting Group (cdcg.us) Contact Chris: chris@cdcg.us LinkedIn: Chris Spanier    ✅ A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast Systemize your lead nurturing. Create a recurring, value-focused email campaign to maintain top-of-mind awareness. Whether your cadence is every three or six weeks, focus 80% on providing helpful insights and only 20% on pitching your services. Tracking measures email open rates and clicks, and then the behavior is aligned with site visits or follow-up outreach. This strategy turns occasional touchpoints into consistent momentum, critical for long-cycle sales in professional services.   🎧 Why You Should Listen Now This episode is packed with strategic clarity and tactical insight for anyone selling invisible services. Whether you're a fractional executive, consultant, or marketing-savvy sales leader, you’ll leave with a more innovative approach to messaging, a stronger understanding of sales and marketing alignment, and actionable ways to drive revenue generation with business acumen. Tune in now and rethink how you build trust and momentum in your professional services pipeline.   B2B Sales Lab is a private, member-led community for sales professionals who want actionable insights, not theory. It’s a space to ask real questions, share proven practices, and connect with others who are serious about improving revenue performance. Designed and led by veteran sales leaders, the Lab is where strategy meets execution. Join us at b2b-sales-lab.com   You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - Sean@NewSales.Expert - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/   You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - kevin@lighthousesalesadvisors.com - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/   You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin   You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/  

When sales professionals hit a roadblock, where do they turn? In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, Kevin Lawson and Sean O'Shaughnessey unveil an exciting new initiative: B2B Sales Lab, a private peer networking community designed to support salespeople, sales managers, and business owners in their journey toward revenue generation excellence. This isn’t just a conversation; rather, we are offering an invitation to join something powerful. If you've ever felt alone in a tough sales challenge or wished for experienced advice on your messaging, sales processes, or strategy, this episode is for you.   Key Topics Discussed (00:00) Why selling isn’t easy and how sales professionals can benefit from a support network (00:39) The creation and mission of the B2B Sales Lab community (01:42) How the platform fosters peer-to-peer learning without judgment or pressure (02:58) The importance of community in developing strong sales strategies and business acumen (03:54) Guardrails that make this space safer and more effective than LinkedIn or Facebook groups (05:00) Why there's a membership fee—and why the first three months are free   Key Quotes Sean O'Shaughnessey (00:01:00): "We're creating a community where people can get together, bounce ideas off each other without fear—just designed to help." Kevin Lawson (00:02:58): "It’s unreasonable to think your small sales team has all the answers. But it’s completely reasonable to find a community that does." Sean O'Shaughnessey (00:04:16): "If you're not a salesperson or sales leader, you're not getting in. This isn't about selling to each other. It’s about growing together."   Additional Resources B2B Sales Lab Information & Registration: https://newsales.expert/b2b-sales-lab (Free for the first three months with no obligation.)   A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast Join the B2B Sales Lab. If you've ever wished you had a sounding board for a tough sales call, a creative partner to work through messaging, or a peer to validate your sales strategy, this is your moment. Visit the link in the show notes and apply to join the B2B Sales Lab. The first three months are free, giving you access to experienced sales minds, curated content on value selling and revenue management, and a judgment-free environment to grow your sales acumen. Don’t wait for your next deal to fall through; build your support system today.   Why You Should Listen This episode is a call to action for sales professionals serious about growth. If you’re navigating complex sales cycles, seeking stronger messaging, or simply want a community that understands your world, the B2B Sales Lab might be the resource you've been missing. Kevin and Sean, both seasoned in sales leadership and sales management, offer not just insights but an entire framework to elevate your career. Listen now to learn how to take the next step toward sustainable sales success—and connect with others on the same journey.   Join the B2B Sales Lab community at https://newsales.expert/b2b-sales-lab. We look forward to helping you grow your revenue! You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - Sean@NewSales.Expert - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/   You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - kevin@lighthousesalesadvisors.com - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/   You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin   You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/

In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O'Shaughnessey are joined by veteran fractional VP of Sales, John McLeod. Together, they dive into a critical topic for today’s sales leaders: embracing artificial intelligence tools without compromising your value proposition, messaging, or sales processes. John brings deep expertise in sales management, business acumen, and revenue generation strategies, offering a measured approach to evaluating sales tech, especially AI solutions, through a risk-and-reward lens. Whether you're a business owner, sales manager, or BDR excited about AI, this conversation grounds you in practical wisdom.   Key Topics Discussed The Real Risk of AI in Sales (00:01:22): How overreliance on untrained AI tools can misrepresent your brand and do more harm than good. Sales Productivity vs. Organizational Efficiency (00:02:01): Why the focus shouldn’t just be on doing more faster, but also on syncing with your company's value selling model. Three Essential AI Use Cases in Sales (00:03:25): Research, qualification, and outreach—and why each comes with its own operational risk. The Ethical Use of AI and Messaging Integrity (00:07:43): Why maintaining consistent messaging across AI-enabled tools is essential to preserving brand integrity and revenue management. Training AI for Sales Value (00:10:00): How smart prompt engineering and structured inputs drive better outcomes from generative AI tools.   Key Quotes John McLeod (00:05:27): “AI tools are meant to be trained. The biggest risk is: are they in fact supporting your unique and distinctive value proposition and holding true to that?” Sean O'Shaughnessey (00:11:38): “You won’t lose your job to AI—but you might lose it to another salesperson who knows how to use AI more effectively.” Kevin Lawson (00:09:40): “When you introduce AI and efficiency, that naturally raises the bar of expectation for performance. What is the new normal when you get there?”   Additional Resources John McLeod’s LinkedIn Profile - https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnmcleod1/   A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast Train Your AI with Purpose: Don’t just “plug and play” AI tools. Take the time to structure your inputs and refine your prompts so that the tool reflects your value, not just generic sales content. Spend time A/B testing different approaches to ensure messaging aligns with your company's strategic sales positioning. Start today by reviewing your most recent outreach generated by AI and ask: “Does this truly represent our value?” If not, retrain your prompts before using them again.   Why You Should Listen Now If you’ve ever been tempted by the next great sales tool or AI platform promising instant leads and effortless sales success, this episode will recalibrate your thinking. John McLeod delivers candid insights on balancing tech adoption with strategic discipline. With Sean and Kevin steering the conversation, this discussion is rich with real-world experience in sales management, messaging, and revenue generation. Tune in now to stay ahead without losing what makes your company valuable.   To understand if your company is doing a great job in sales, take this quick and easy assessment: https://salesxceleration.com/sales-agility-assessment/?locationid=28995327   You can reach out to Sean at New Sales Expert, LLC - Sean@NewSales.Expert - https://www.linkedin.com/in/soshaughnessey/   You can reach out to Kevin at Lighthouse Sales Advisors & Sales Xceleration - kevin@lighthousesalesadvisors.com - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kwlawson/   You can book time on Kevin's calendar at https://lighthousesalesadvisors.pipedrive.com/scheduler/JP7rZXH3/virtual-meeting-booking-time-with-kevin   You can book time on Sean's calendar at http://newsales.expert/sean-oshaughnessey-calendar/