Unlearn with Asher & Kelly

In Episode 45, Kelly hosts for the first time and friend of the pod Scott Brinker returns to pressure test the SaaS apocalypse thesis.We cover:• Anthropic’s new agent capabilities, including legal automation• The $1T software selloff and Nvidia’s pushback on the collapse narrative• Microsoft positioning against OpenAI and the rise of AI co opetition• Anthropic vs OpenAI’s Super Bowl ad battle and Sam Altman’s response• OpenAI hiring forward deployed engineers and what it signals about product companies moving into services• KPMG and McKinsey data showing most enterprises are still experimenting with agentsAre agents replacing applications? Or are software companies embedding AI faster than the market expects?The data suggests we are not seeing the death of SaaS, but a reshuffling of power across models, infrastructure, applications, and services.If you care about AI, SaaS, hyperscalers, or ecosystem strategy, this episode breaks down what’s signal vs noise.

In this episode, Asher and Kelly zoom out to a bigger question: what happens when AI turns nations, platforms, and enterprises into ecosystem companies?Starting with the idea that “America is becoming a platform company,” they explore why the biggest AI winners will be the ones with the largest ecosystems, not just the best models.From Lumen’s transformation from telecom provider to connective AI infrastructure, to the mounting pressure on system integrators to redesign their business models, to Anthropic hiring a revenue owning SI leader at $250K plus OTE, the signals are clear. Adoption beats shipping, and execution beats hype.They also unpack new data from the 2026 State of Partnership Leaders report, including the hard truth about budget authority, and connect it to Salesforce’s latest State of Sales, where partner selling is now nearly universal.If platforms win through ecosystems, someone has to own outcomes. This episode explores who that is and why this moment may redefine the Chief Partner Officer role.

In this episode, Asher and Kelly kick off a new Unlearn format and talk through what’s really changing across the tech ecosystem. Kathleen Curry from Workday joins the pod.They dig into OpenAI recruiting a CPO-level partnerships role, Shopify’s partnership shakeup, and the latest partner program moves from Google, Microsoft and ServiceNow.The conversation also looks at what the BCG AI Radar tells us about CEOs taking ownership of AI, and why partnerships now have to focus on adoption, expansion, and real customer value.

Most people still think about partnerships as a sales channel. Stripe’s Erika Wool doesn’t. She leads product and strategic partnerships and defines her job as helping Stripe build businesses that wouldn’t exist without partners.In this episode, Erika walks through how she moved from consulting and Edelman into Google and Stripe, how product partnerships evolved as Stripe scaled from “easiest way to accept card payments online” to a multi-product platform, and how she explains the value of these bets to executives and the board. Chapters00:00 – Coming back from break and introducing Erika00:38 – Erika’s path: think tank, consulting, Edelman, Google, Stripe09:30 – What product partnerships mean at Stripe today15:25 – How to articulate the value of product partnerships to executives21:25 – Keeping integrations alive: SLAs, joint roadmaps, and care after launch31:30 – How Stripe structures its partnerships org (pillars, partner engineering, strat/ops)37:05 – Reporting lines, product ownership, and prototyping with partners43:20 – Building bridges with sales, channel, and customer-facing teams48:40 – Why Erika chose partnerships and what keeps her in the role52:00 – Looking beyond tech: Costco, airlines, Walmart, and how AI changes everythingKey Takeaways1. Product partnerships should build businesses, not just integrations: Erika frames her team’s role as helping Stripe build businesses that literally wouldn’t exist without partners, especially in regulated fintech where Stripe is not the bank, card network, or payment method.2. Value stories need both market insight and user data: To justify a product partnership, you can’t just say “we need this partner.” You have to tie what’s happening in the market, what your users are asking for or missing, and what the commercial model looks like over time – even when the forecast isn’t perfect.3. Launch is the starting line, not the finish line: Stripe bakes in SLAs, QBRs, and joint business plans with partners, but the real work is ongoing: updating products as both platforms evolve, entering new markets, and deciding which new partner features are worth integrating.4. Org structure should follow products and partner types: Stripe organizes partnerships by product pillar and partner type (financial partners, payment methods, Terminal, etc.), backed by partner engineering and a dedicated strategy/ops function inside the partnerships org. Regional complexity comes later.5. Great partnership leaders build bridges to CEOs, CFOs, and GTM teams: Erika’s world requires direct engagement with product and company leadership. At the same time, sales, channel, and CS are key sources of market signal and distribution for what product partnerships create.Key Quotes“You know, there is one motion. It's called B2B, right? Like in your world, you're actually a B2C company first. And then you have all this like B2B stuff on the backside of it. At least that's kind of how I think about it.” - Asher Mathew“I feel like it's something that a lot of partner leaders struggle with because it's not necessarily as straightforward as channel partnerships, where you're very much focused on the transactional layer. It gets much more complex.” - Kelly Sarabyn“You do, you are responsible for how that partner impacts the business that Stripe builds on top of it. And so you've got to know those numbers as well and be able to think about how that will change over time.” - Erika WoolFinal ThoughtsProduct partnerships sit in a messy middle: part product, part strategy, part relationship management, and part internal politics. Erika shows how Stripe built an org where partner engineering, strategy/ops, and product partnerships can prototype, negotiate, and scale with some of the most important companies in the world while still serving Stripe’s users first.

In this episode, Asher and Kelly sit down with Richard Ezekiel to unpack his book COELEVATE, a practical framework built from decades in the trenches in Silicon Valley and as part of the venture capital ecosystem. Richard breaks down how to build a “virtual company” between partners, why operational rigor is often overlooked, and how partner professionals can move beyond buzzwords to drive real business value.Chapters04:28 – From Wired Magazine to Amazon10:29 – The Partnership T: A Customer-Centric Framework17:42 – The Real Reason Richard Wrote COELEVATE24:05 – Why 70% of Partnerships Fail29:13 – Building a Partnership Like a Virtual Company34:42 – The Problem with “Alliances” and Industry Nomenclature42:33 – Scaling with Platform Partnerships48:12 – AI, Methodology, and What’s Next for COELEVATEKey Takeaways1. The 70% Problem - Most partnerships fail within two years, not because of execution issues, but because the foundational idea wasn’t strong enough.2. The Virtual Company Mindset - A great partnership should function like a shared operating entity between two companies.3. Idea Quality > Execution - You can’t fix a weak idea with flawless execution. Strong partnerships start with high-quality, differentiated ideas that actually matter to the customer.4. Platform Strategy Isn’t Plug-and-Play - Scaling to one-to-many partnerships doesn’t mean copy-pasting one-to-one motions.5. It’s Time to Codify the Discipline - We’ve built sales, marketing, and product into academic and operational disciplines. It’s time to do the same for partnerships with a common language, methodology, and structure.Key Quotes"You’re not building a deal. You’re building the architecture for two companies to evolve together. If that framework’s not there, the partnership won’t last." - Richard Ezekiel"Most partner pros don’t realize they can take their skills into entirely new industries. The ceiling moves when you stop thinking of partnerships as just a B2B function." - Asher Mathew"Execution depends on culture. You can’t build a strategic partnership if your company values or brand DNA fundamentally clash, even when the numbers look great." - Kelly SarabynFinal ThoughtsPartnerships are complex, evolving ecosystems that need better tools, better thinking, and stronger foundations. Richard Ezekiel’s book COELEVATE is a serious attempt at codifying what most of us learn the hard way: that sustainable partnerships need structure, creativity, and a real operating model behind the press release.This episode is for anyone trying to bring good ideas to life through collaboration. Tune in to hear what’s next for the discipline and what Richard is building to make the methodology real and usable with AI.

Natan Edelsburg, Chief Partnerships Officer at Muck Rack, joins Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn on Unlearn to talk about what happens when a revenue leader outgrows the CRO seat. They unpack how modern PR is evolving, why media training matters more than ever, and how partnerships roles are becoming more dynamic and strategic than ever before. Natan shares his journey from early employee to CPO, the challenges of navigating internal change, and the power of authentic storytelling in a noisy world.Chapters01:03 – Natan’s Journey to Chief Partnerships Officer10:00 – Why He Stepped Down as CRO13:40 – Building a Role Around Partnerships & Evangelism19:50 – Staying Focused on PR in a Distracted Market30:32 – LinkedIn’s Role in Modern Comms37:20 – What Makes a Strategic PR Campaign40:35 – Why Media Training Is Essential43:00 – Using AI for Smarter Media Prep47:50 – Activating Relationships Through LinkedInKey Takeaways1. Modern PR Requires Integration - Great campaigns span paid, earned, shared, and owned channels. PR isn’t just pitching anymore.2. Media Training Isn’t Optional - Executives are expected to show up polished on every channel, not just in interviews.3. Partnerships Can Be Evangelism - Natan’s role blends relationship-building with brand representation, showing CPOs aren’t confined to revenue KPIs.4. AI Should Augment, Not Replace - Smart teams are using AI to speed up busywork—but keeping humans in the loop to protect quality.5. LinkedIn Is an Underrated Power Tool - Relationship capital, activated thoughtfully, still opens more doors than cold outreach ever will.Key Quotes“You still want to do incubation stuff, but the company’s needs are highly specialized. That’s the trade-off every growth-stage exec faces.” - Asher Mathew“While tech stacks change, relationships remain the most durable asset in go-to-market.” - Kelly Sarabyn“Being media trained doesn’t mean being robotic. It means knowing your story and being able to tell it in a way that connects.” - Natan EdelsburgFinal ThoughtsNatan’s story is a reminder that career growth isn’t always up. It’s sometimes sideways, strategic, and self-aware. From building Muck Rack’s comms ecosystem to leading without a team, he’s showing what flexible leadership looks like. And with AI, PR, and social platforms evolving fast, the conversation doubles as a blueprint for staying relevant and trusted in any go-to-market function.

As VP of Partnerships at Factorial, Marcel Queralt turned a side project into a full-blown business unit, driving one-third of the company’s revenue. In this episode, Marcel breaks down how he built a 100-person global team, why partner leaders need to think like entrepreneurs, and the exact culture and org structure that keeps it all running.Chapters02:30 - Why partnerships became a growth lever06:05 - Finding product-market fit before hiring10:33 - Why Marcel hired “mini-founders” first27:50 - Culture of ownership and reporting discipline45:52 - The role of partner enablement at scale50:48 - Presenting to the board and owning the numberKey Takeaways1. Mini-Founders First: Marcel prioritized hiring entrepreneurial talent who could own a market and figure out what works before scaling.2. Reporting is Strategy: Clean attribution and shared CRM visibility are non-negotiable if you want internal alignment and credibility.4. Partner Enablement is Make or Break: Fast partner activation—within the first two weeks—is the key to long-term results.5. Partnerships = Business Unit: Marcel runs his org with full P&L ownership, localized teams, and dedicated marketing and ops support.6. Culture Eats Incentives: Internal collaboration is less about comp plans and more about shared trust and aligned goals.Key Quotes"My whole thing right now is, hey, can a partnership leader track performance all the way down to earnings per share... even if you can come down to like net income generated from partnerships, that would actually be a pretty cool thing." - Asher Mathew"It sounded like when you initially took this on, you were looking quite broad at a lot of different types of organizations that could drive the business forward." - Kelly Sarabyn"Signing a partnership doesn't mean anything... we want to understand if they want to invest or not on this relationship, if they are able to sign on a business plan or not, and if they have the ambition to be relevant for us. Because we want to be relevant for them." - Marcel QueraltFinal ThoughtsPartnerships don’t scale on charm alone. Rooted in ownership, discipline, and strategic hiring, Marcel’s approach shows what it takes to turn partner teams into revenue engines. Whether you’re in the early days or managing a global org, this episode is a blueprint for doing it right. It’s also a reminder that treating partnerships as a real business unit is necessary if you want to move the needle.

In this episode of the Unlearn Podcast, Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn sit down with Sergio Farache, Chief Strategy and Technology Officer at TD Synnex. Sergio shares insights on how TD Synnex is breaking away from the traditional linear model, creating a dynamic ecosystem that supports diverse partner types, from SMBs to global enterprises.Chapters02:28 - Sergio’s Background and Role at TD Synnex04:11 - Evolving from Linear Models to Ecosystems08:27 - The Omnichannel Approach16:27 - Supporting SMBs with Tailored Programs23:47 - Empowering Partners and Managing Data33:37 - Distribution Models and Partner Retention44:16 - Go-to-Market Trends and Future FocusKey Takeaways1. Ecosystem Integration: TD Synnex serves as the “ecosystem of ecosystems,” integrating major cloud platforms like AWS, Microsoft, and Google into a unified experience.2. Omnichannel Strategy: Whether partners prefer a digital portal, API integration, or direct support, TD Synnex meets them where they are.3. Focus on SMBs: Programs like Evolve help smaller partners scale their offerings without needing a large internal team.4. Data-Driven Decisions: TD Synnex leverages its extensive data to help partners target the right customers and build effective go-to-market strategies.5. Future of Distribution: Embracing digital engagement while maintaining human touchpoints remains crucial for building long-term relationships.Key Quotes“We are the ecosystem of ecosystems. Our role is to normalize interactions across platforms, allowing partners to access major cloud providers from one place.” - Sergio Farache“If you build an amazing global SMB company, you’ll get any money you want from VCs.” - Asher Mathew“The essence of why platforms exist is to add value by connecting partners and customers across the chain.” - Kelly SarabynFinal ThoughtsSergio Farache highlights how TD Synnex is redefining distribution by fostering an interconnected ecosystem, focusing on SMB enablement, and leveraging data to deliver value. As the market evolves, TD Synnex’s approach to blending human interaction with digital efficiency will likely set the standard for the future of technology distribution.

Join hosts Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn as they engage with Gilad Zubery, Chief Revenue Officer at DealHub. This episode unpacks Gilad's journey from EVP of Partnerships at ContentSquare to his current role, highlighting the strategic importance of partnerships in driving business growth. Discover insights into the challenges of revenue operations and the evolving landscape of partner-driven strategies.Chapters- 06:00 - Gilad's Career Journey and Transition to CRO- 12:00 - Attribution Challenges and Solutions in Partnerships- 18:00 - The Role of Partnerships in Company Growth Strategy- 24:00 - Community Building and Its Impact on Business- 30:00 - Challenges in Partner-Driven Growth for New Platforms- 36:00 - Reporting Structures for Partnership Teams- 42:00 - Metrics and Board Reporting for PartnershipsKey Takeaways1. Transitioning to CRO: Gilad's move to Deal Hub was driven by the company's belief in partner channels as a growth engine, underscoring the value of partnership expertise in executive roles.2. Attribution in Partnerships: Implementing a robust attribution system is crucial for understanding the impact of partnerships on lead generation and revenue.3. Outsourcing Challenges: Competing with established players like Salesforce requires innovative strategies, especially when offering fewer services.4. Reporting Structures: The optimal reporting line for partnerships varies by company strategy and culture, emphasizing the need for alignment with overall business goals.5. Early Metrics Implementation: Introducing partnership metrics early can significantly influence strategic decisions and highlight the importance of partner relationships.Key Quotes"Everything you do about partnerships, do it early on after you grow. It's close to impossible to really change. It's very difficult." - Gilad Zubery"Understanding the go-to-market motion of a company is crucial for determining where partnerships should report." - Asher Mathew"This is the beauty of having a partner friendly CRO is you can get data like that, even understanding who the partners are on the other, the competitive side." - Kelly SarabynFinal ThoughtsGilad's transition to CRO highlights the growing importance of partnerships in modern business strategies. His approach to eliminating attribution issues and fostering community engagement offers valuable lessons for leaders aiming to integrate partnerships into their growth models. As companies navigate competitive landscapes, the insights shared in this episode underscore the need for adaptability and strategic alignment in achieving sustainable success.

In this episode, hosts Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn engage with Serrah Linares, Senior Vice President of Growth Innovation at Optum, in a compelling discussion on the future of healthcare partnerships. This episode unpacks how technology, APIs, and strategic alliances are reshaping healthcare delivery and innovation.Chapters5:02 - Healthcare tech: EMRs, APIs, and data exchange10:57 - Industry evolution: Adoption of technology in healthcare17:50 - Partnerships and interoperability in healthcare24:41 - AI and verticalized solutions in healthcare30:36 - Organizational structure and partnerships at UnitedHealthcare36:57 - Stakeholder alignment and making the business case42:25 - Challenges of partnering in the healthcare industryKey Takeaways1. Optum's Technological Edge: Optum builds and commercializes technology to fill gaps in healthcare, enhancing member engagement and service delivery.2. Interoperability and Innovation: The healthcare sector is gradually embracing digital transformation, driven by federal policies and the need for collaboration.3. API Marketplace as a Catalyst: Optum's API marketplace supports startups, fostering innovation in telehealth and virtual care.4. Data Protection vs. Sharing: Balancing data protection with the need for information sharing is crucial for improving healthcare outcomes.5. Strategic Stakeholder Engagement: Effective partnership initiatives require a compelling business case and alignment with company goals.

Elena Leonova, Chief Product Officer at Spryker, joins Unlearn to discuss how product leaders should rethink their approach to partnerships. She explains why transparency in product roadmaps is critical, how developer ecosystems drive platform success, and why product managers need to integrate partners into their strategy. This episode is packed with insights on structuring partnerships for scale, and positioning partnerships at the executive level.Chapters:01:33 - The Role of Partnerships in Platform Products04:26 - Structuring Partner Success & Developer Enablement07:29 - Transparency in Product Roadmaps for Partners12:58 - The Journey from Product to Platform18:48 - How to Sell Partnerships to Product Leaders22:05 - Why Product Managers Should Care About Partners32:25 - The Role of Ecosystem Risk in Product Decisions41:05 - CEO-Level Conversations About Partnerships48:42 - Staying Aligned with Partners Over Time50:08 - AI’s Impact on Product-Partner StrategiesKey TakeawaysProduct leaders need to shift their mindset—Partnerships aren’t just a go-to-market strategy; they’re a core part of a scalable product strategy.Transparency is key—Sharing product roadmaps with partners fosters trust and helps them build complementary solutions.Developer experience matters—A strong developer ecosystem increases platform adoption and partner engagement.Partnership decisions need a framework—Having a clear “build, buy, or partner” philosophy helps streamline product decisions.Ecosystem risk is real—Companies must account for partner stability and evolving technology trends when integrating third-party solutions.Key Quotes"Product leaders often don’t realize that partnerships can extend product capabilities without adding internal complexity." - Elena Leonova"If a product roadmap doesn’t make space for partners, it’s missing a massive opportunity for scale." - Asher Mathew"Product managers care about adoption—partners can help increase product stickiness and usage." - Kelly SarabynFinal ThoughtsPartnerships are a growth strategy that requires alignment between product, business, and developers. Whether you’re a product manager, a partner leader, or an executive, this episode is a masterclass in structuring partnerships for long-term success.#ProductLeadership #Partnerships #TechEcosystem #SaaS #PlatformStrategy

Join hosts Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn as they engage with Alan Chhabra, a seasoned executive with a rich history at MongoDB, now leading partnerships at Cerebras. This episode unpacks Alan's journey from engineering to executive roles, offering insights into building robust partner organizations and strategies for collaborating with hyperscalers. Chapters - - 01:24 - Alan's Background and Journey into Partnerships - 05:54 - Building a Successful Partner Organization at MongoDB - 10:09 - Challenges and Wins in Partnership Development - 24:38 - Strategies for Working with Hyperscalers - 31:32 - Building the Right Team and Infrastructure for Partnerships - 41:23 - The Importance of Enablement and Partner Marketing - 47:37 - Alan's Reflections on His Time at MongoDB - 52:34 - Alan's Transition to Cerebras and the AI Chip Market - 56:49 - Advice for CEOs on Structuring Partner and Sales Organizations Key Takeaways 1. Building Partnerships: Alan emphasizes aligning with the CEO, CRO, and CFO on a North Star goal to enhance sales productivity through partnerships. 2. Hyperscaler Strategies: Transforming relationships with cloud giants involves multi-cloud capabilities, leveraging marketplaces, and executive alignment. 3. Transition to Cerebras: Alan's move to Cerebras highlights the competitive AI chip market and the importance of scaling partnerships with hyperscalers and OEMs. 4. CEO Advice: Splitting the CRO role into separate heads for sales and partnerships is crucial in today's tech landscape. Key Quotes - "Being an immigrant in America, it's not always easy if you're first generation. So there is some challenges." - Alan Chhabra - "Losses can be turned into wins, but you got to be strategic about it, and you need a partner org to go do it." - Alan Chhabra - "How do you see the role of partnerships evolving in the next five years?" - Asher Mathew - "What are the key elements that make a partnership truly successful?" - Kelly Sarabyn

In this Unlearn episode, Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn sit down with Jason Graefe, a seasoned Microsoft executive. With over two decades at Microsoft, Jason shares his journey from a field seller to leading Microsoft's engagement with software development companies. This episode explores leadership lessons, the transformative impact of generative AI, and Microsoft's strategic approach to partnering with software companies. Chapters: - 01:02 - Jason Graefe's Career Journey at Microsoft - 04:36 - Leadership Lessons - 22:10 - Microsoft's Engagement with Software Companies - 25:19 - The Impact of Generative AI on Software Development - 44:50 - Working with Satya Nadella - 48:09 - Improving Microsoft's Partner Engagement Key Takeaways: 1. Leadership Philosophy: Drawing from Jack Nicklaus, Jason emphasizes focusing on solutions rather than problems, a mindset crucial for effective leadership. 2. AI's Role in Development: Generative AI is rapidly changing the software landscape, and companies must strategically integrate it to enhance their core strengths. 3. Strategic Partnerships: Clear communication and tailored approaches are vital for successful partnerships, as emphasized by Jason's experiences at Microsoft. 4. Satya Nadella's Leadership: Jason admires Nadella's ability to balance high-level strategy with technical detail, a skill that defines effective leadership. Key Quotes: - "Our job is to really help software development companies build their businesses and build them on our platform." - Jason Graefe - "It's fascinating to see how leadership philosophies can transform not just a team, but an entire organization." - Asher Mathew - "Understanding the nuances of partnership engagement is crucial for long-term success." - Kelly Sarabyn

In this episode of the Unlearn podcast, Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn chat with Anwar Haneef, Head of Ecosystem at Canva, about the company's innovative approach to empowering developers. Anwar explores Canva's ecosystem, showcasing tools like the Apps SDK and Connect API, which enable seamless integrations across platforms. He shares insights on Canva’s expansive reach, partnerships with industry giants like Meta and Salesforce, and how the $50 million Developer Innovation Fund supports sustainable ecosystem growth. Tune in for a look at how Canva is shaping the future of design, collaboration, and developer success. Chapters -  00:00 - Introduction 03:19 - Canva's Developer Ecosystem and Infrastructure 06:39 - Examples of Canva's Developer Integrations 12:56 - Diversity of Canva's Ecosystem and User Community 19:48 - Monetization Strategy for Canva's Developer Ecosystem 31:25 - Canva's Innovation Fund and Long-Term Sustainability 33:00 - Go-to-Market Strategies with Partners 39:14 - Team Structure and Organizational Design 54:12 - Final Thoughts and Future Plans Final Thoughts and Future Plans Anwar shared that Canva is focused on enhancing functionality and support for developers, including introducing new integrations and tools. He also mentioned a selective approach to onboarding new partners for the premium app program, prioritizing quality and user value.  Key Takeaways -  Developing a sustainable monetization model for a developer ecosystem is crucial, beyond just relying on fixed funding sources. Encouraging a freemium approach and revenue sharing can create a self-sustaining economy. Aligning deeper go-to-market relationships between partnerships, product, and sales teams can be challenging, but is important to provide a cohesive experience for customers and partners. Organizing teams around "super groups" or pods that have cross-functional autonomy can foster faster innovation and better integration between different disciplines like product, engineering, and partnerships. Empowering teams to focus on "doing the work" rather than rigid hierarchies and titles can promote a more collaborative and nimble culture Designing the business model and user experience upfront, before extensive development, can lead to better outcomes than a "build first, design later" approach. Key Quotes -  "Before we start anything, we usually spend a lot of time designing it first. This creates a much better experience because it ensures everything is well-articulated and users are properly guided. When you focus on design upfront, you can build faster, as many of the issues that arise from building first and designing later are avoided." - Asher Mathew "We want Canva to be wherever there is an intention for design. Whether it's creating a QBR, designing a t-shirt, or planning team swag, we aim to be available anytime, anywhere, for any user with design needs." - Anwar Haneef"Many platforms say, 'We've made ourselves extensible—come build on us,' but Canva has gone beyond that. Not only has it made itself extensible, but it has also made it incredibly easy to embed Canva into other products. This allows users to access Canva seamlessly within those products, maintaining a consistent experience." - Kelly Sarabyn

On this episode of the Unlearn podcast, hosts Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn connect with Eron Sunando, Asana's Head of Channels & Alliances. Fresh from Asana's Partner Summit, Eron brings a unique perspective on how partnerships can simplify the increasingly complex world of business technology. Drawing from his globe-trotting career that spans from UBS to Salesforce, Eron unpacks the challenges facing today's businesses – from overwhelmed SMB owners to sales teams juggling multiple tools. He shares an insider's look at Asana's fresh approach to partnerships, including their new partner program and the game-changing AI Studio. Join us for a practical conversation about reducing tech complexity, building meaningful partnerships, and finding the sweet spot between AI automation and the human touch in partner management. Chapters -  00:00 - Introduction and Eron’s career journey 04:20 - Complexity of modern tech stacks 10:00 - Reducing Complexities for SMBs 16:00 - Asana's Partner Summit and Program Relaunch 22:00 - Partnerships with MasterCard and Other Ecosystem Players 28:00 - Balancing Competency-Based and Outcome-Based Partner Programs 34:00 - Asana's Use of AI and the Launch of AI Studio 40:00 - Managing Partner Relationships with Asana's Internal Tools 45:00 - AI and Partner Management 50:00 - Asana's AI Studio and the Shift Towards Customizable AI Workflows 52:00 - Evolving Partner Program Structure Key Takeaways -  Complexity of Modern Tech Stacks: Customers, especially SMBs, are overwhelmed by the growing number of applications and tools they need to manage, highlighting the need for partners to simplify and integrate these solutions. Asana's Flexible Partner Program: Asana is launching a new partner program with distinct paths for different partner types (solution, services, tech, referral), allowing for a more tailored approach to partner engagement. Leveraging AI for Partner Management: While AI can automate certain partner management tasks, the human touch remains crucial for building strategic relationships and providing customized support. Asana's AI Studio offers a flexible, customizable platform for partners to create AI-driven workflows. Centralized Partner Relationship Management: Asana uses its own collaborative work management platform to facilitate communication, task tracking, and coordination with its partner ecosystem, providing a unified system for managing partner activities. Balancing Competency-Based and Outcome-Based Models: Asana opted for a competency-based partner program structure, citing the complexity of implementing an outcome-based model that would require sophisticated backend systems and processes. Key Quotes -  "I was excited to talk with you because, traditionally, a partnership leader’s worst nightmare is working with a CRO. Few people have experienced both roles firsthand, but you’ve done exactly that." - Asher Mathew "What's top of mind for me is that, as you know, AI is everywhere. But what I often hear from our customers is that their tech stack has become very complex." - Eron Sunando

On this episode of the Unlearn podcast, hosts Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn welcome Rich Gardner, a partnership maven with a knack for turning industry insights into actionable strategies. Fresh from events like Catalyst and Dreamforce, Rich shares his take on peer-to-peer learning and aligning partnerships with the big picture. Drawing from his time at Klaviyo, Rich dives into the nitty-gritty of being a true partnership operator. Join us for a candid conversation about where partnerships are headed and how to keep everyone – from your team to your partners – rowing in the same direction. It's a down-to-earth look at the future of business collaboration, sprinkled with Rich's real-world wisdom. Chapters -  00:00 - Introduction 03:14 - Reflections on Catalyst and Peer-to-Peer Learning 09:47 - CEO Involvement and Partnership Strategy 14:02 - Challenges in Measuring Partnership Impact 20:23 - Operator Mindset 29:01 - The Future of Partnerships and Marketplaces 39:38 - Challenges in Collaboration with Product Teams 47:41 - The Evolution of Partnerships and Future Opportunities 50:55 - Closing Remarks Key Takeaways -  Partnerships leaders need to better communicate the value of partnerships to CEOs by understanding the CEO's priorities and speaking their language in terms of business metrics and growth. Measuring and attributing partnership impact is a complex challenge that requires rigor and instrumentation, which partnership leaders need to focus on. Product teams can be resistant to co-building or allowing third-party integrations, so partnership leaders need to frame partnerships as a way to help product teams achieve their goals faster. Partnership leaders need to adopt an operator mindset, understanding the entire business and being able to translate partnerships' value across different functions. The rise of platforms, marketplaces, and the democratization of integration/development due to AI presents both challenges and opportunities for partnership leaders to navigate. Key Quotes -  “Now is the perfect time to claim a seat at the table, given the shifts in the market. The key for leaders is to focus on being effective operators” - Asher Mathew "To succeed as a partnerships leader, regardless of your title, you must understand your product, customer success, sales, and what matters to finance. You need to grasp it all—essentially acting as a mini-CEO." - Rich Gardner "It's complex to map out these dynamics. Crossbeam has attempted to visualize the cloud, but when you consider hyperscalers and their marketplaces, they're now incorporating business software, not just IT and dev tools. This creates layers of ecosystems within ecosystems. Even hyperscalers are part of others' ecosystems, so no one is just a platform anymore—everyone is both a participant and a platform." - Kelly Sarabyn

On this episode of the Unlearn Podcast, hosts Asher Mathew & Kelly Sarabyn engage in a compelling discussion on the impacts of social media. They are joined by author Tobias Rose-Stockwell, known for his book "Outrage Machine,"  Tobias, a seasoned researcher in technology's societal impacts, shares insights gathered over a decade of study. His expertise sheds light on how platforms like Slack can disrupt workplace dynamics and productivity.  The episode delves into the complexities of social media's influence, exploring themes of workplace disruption, productivity challenges, and strategies for enhancing online trust and fact-checking. Listeners gain valuable insights into navigating the evolving landscape of social media and its broader implications. Chapters -  00:00 - Social media's impact on workplace productivity and interpersonal relationships.  7:56 - How digital communication changes social dynamics in the workplace.  12:38 - How social media impacts moral emotions and mental health.  16:32 - Social media companies' ethical issues and how they prioritize engagement over morality.  21:03 - LinkedIn's algorithm and its impact on content visibility and toxicity. 27:51 - LinkedIn algorithm and content optimization.  31:50 - Creating and managing online communities, with a focus on engagement and outcomes.  35:30 - Content moderation challenges in social media platforms.  39:19 - Improving social media fact-checking through community-driven, AI-augmented platforms.  43:35 - Building trust in social media with a focus on verification engines and trust and safety teams.  Key Takeaways -  Social media platforms like Slack can negatively impact workplace productivity and creativity due to constant distractions and performance-based interactions Writing text removes non-verbal cues and context, making online communication more open to misinterpretation compared to in-person interactions  Prioritizing engagement alone can incentivize the spread of misinformation over truthful information on social media Community-driven fact-checking and citations from reputable sources can help combat viral misinformation spread on social media platforms The concept of building a "market for trust" by prioritizing validated information over viral hits in the long run could create more value for social media platforms Key Quotes - "I feel like LinkedIn is really changing. When I first started using it, it was a straightforward network where people had small circles. Now it seems like there are ccircles within circles. Different content is shown to different people, even in different countries. There was this creative explosion initially, but now every week I hear people frustrated because their reach and impressions are down. It feels like we've fallen into the situation you're describing."  - Asher Mathew "There's some really interesting research and history regarding LinkedIn's efforts to make its feed less toxic. Back in the day, most social media platforms didn't even have a news feed. When LinkedIn started, it was more about who you were connected to rather than having a feed. They implemented a feed early on, but then they actually turned it off due to spikes in garbage content, spam, and other issues typical of user-generated content networks. After a hiatus, they restarted the feed, around 2017 if I remember correctly, in a read-only format. They also selected specific influencers who could post to the feed, aiming for global reach with a small number of chosen influencers in the early days." - Tobias Rose-Stockwell "I do think Wikipedia is a great example. People perceive it as very neutral, right? I've never heard anyone say, 'Wikipedia has a liberal bias' or something like that. It just comes across as neutral. I think it's hopeful that this neutrality can be embedded into social networks."  - Kelly Sarabyn

On this episode of the Unlearn podcast, hosts Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn sit down with Ritu Khanna, Vice President of Partnerships at Shopify. Under Ritu's leadership, Shopify has unified previously segmented partner functions, generating new synergies that drive the company's continued hypergrowth. With a proven track record in transforming traditional models to thrive amidst digital disruption, Ritu offers valuable insights into connecting ecosystems, embracing disruption, and guiding partners through an era of profound change. Tune in as we explore Ritu's firsthand perspectives on navigating partnership transformations in today's dynamic business landscape. Chapters -  00:00 - Partnerships and product extensibility at Shopify.  06:24 - Partner types and their evolution in software companies.  10:53 - Partnerships and alignment in product development.  16:55 - Transforming Shopify's partner program to accommodate more complex market segments while still supporting SMB partners.  21:34 - Partnering with ISVs and ISPs to offer complementary products and services.  27:52 - Reselling and bundling software products on marketplaces.  33:13 - Leveraging partnerships for growth in the ecosystem.  40:55 - Partnering and leadership in a rapidly changing business landscape. Key Takeaways - Partnerships need to evolve over time to stay aligned with changing products and business needs. Regular communication and flexibility are important. Connecting different partner types (e.g. SMB and enterprise partners) and blurring boundaries can create synergies and new opportunities for growth. Leadership plays a key role in navigating major transformations while keeping partners motivated through recognition, highlighting progress, and embracing change. Co-selling and building complementary value propositions together is generally more effective than direct reselling of other companies' products. Marketplaces are enabling more bundled and efficient partner/ISV relationships through low transaction fees and discoverability compared to traditional channels. Key Quotes - "I think some of the biggest opportunities lie in connecting dots across the different areas that exist in the world of partnerships, whether that's across different partner types or the same partner types serving different segments. The goal is to create a fully functional and operationally efficient engine. While there may not be 100% overlap, there's certainly a Venn diagram of creativity worth exploring that will deliver strong results."  - Ritu Khanna "The efficiency would be if another company's sales rep sells your product instead of your own. That's what most revenue leaders aim for. However, integrating Shopify with another product for resale can be quite complicated, as we discussed."  - Asher Mathew "I think ours is more focused on what I would call mid-market and on-market versus enterprise. But it is interesting listening to what you're saying, because that is a huge transformation. You still have all your SMB customers, right? And you still have all your SMB partners. So, is your program incredibly complex now because it accommodates these different partners for different customers? I assume they're still key to the Shopify portfolio as well." - Kelly Sarabyn

On this episode of the Unlearn Podcast, hosts Asher and Kelly connect with Louise McEvoy, Vice President of US Channel Sales at Trend Micro. Louise shares her insights on building channel programs while balancing a demanding career with her passion for mountain climbing. The discussion covers topics such as obtaining executive buy-in for new models, modernizing competencies for channel leaders, and prioritizing tasks as a busy executive. The speakers explore adapting to changing market conditions, rethinking success metrics, and focusing on revenue growth, program development, and team support amid industry transformations. This conversation provides valuable perspectives on the challenges and opportunities facing partnership executives in today's digital landscape.   Chapters -  00:00 - Balancing demanding career and non-career pursuits with a mountaineer. 06:20 - Transforming a channel through relationships and ecosystems. 10:06 - Unlearning traditional channel models and adopting new strategies for value creation. 15:55 - Transforming business models in the tech industry. 20:34 - Partner strategy, executive buy-in, and market shifts. 26:26 - Leveraging marketplaces for ISVs to resell products without embedding another ISV's product. 31:21 - Marketplaces, bundling, and corporate sponsorship. 38:06 - Modern partnership leadership competencies and evolution of roles. 46:40 - Prioritizing tasks and staying informed in a busy work environment. Key Takeaways -  In transforming business models, obtaining executive buy-in is crucial to mitigate disruptions across departments that may not align with the new direction. The evolution of partnership leadership roles now includes a broader spectrum of competencies, including influence, relationship building, and staying abreast of emerging market trends and tools. Effective strategies were discussed for achieving work-life balance by leveraging employer support, such as flexible time off and a culture of trust in employees. In modernizing channel models, speakers highlighted the effectiveness of combining traditional, transformational, and blue ocean strategies to adapt to evolving market conditions. Insightful techniques were shared for executives to prioritize tasks, focusing on areas such as revenue growth, program development, and team support. Key Quotes- “It's crucial to prioritize collaboration with finance teams and ensure they're well-informed. Finance teams can benefit from a deeper understanding of our business operations. Taking an operational approach and working closely with them to clarify processes is essential for seamless workflow. This clarity helps prevent future support challenges and enhances overall efficiency."  - Asher Mathew "Regarding ISVs, I see the value in integrating with their ecosystems. Take Trend Micro, for instance. We offer a unified platform with various modules and services. For customers using platforms that lack certain security aspects, our integrations with ISVs provide seamless extensions rather than requiring a complete overhaul. This approach avoids the complexity of enabling multiple products and ensures efficient integration that simply works." - Louise McEvoy

On this episode of the Unlearn podcast, we discuss leadership with Rachel Skaff, Managing Director of North America Partner Sales at AWS. At AWS, she oversees the channel sales organization for North America, focused on accelerating growth through partners.  Joined by hosts Asher and Kelly, Rachel shares insights from her diverse career path and transforming AWS's partner model. The conversation explores challenges of work-life balance, especially for female executives, and offers advice for navigating careers amidst disruption. Emphasizing lifelong learning and adaptability, this episode provides valuable perspectives for partnership and sales professionals navigating organizational transformation. Chapters -  00:00 - Partnerships and leadership with Amazon Web Services executive 05:31 - Parenting, leadership, and experience 10:52 - Work-life balance, leadership, and prioritizing people over processes 19:06 - Modern partnership leadership and sales strategies 25:12 - Leadership, decision-making, and adapting to change 32:55 - Leadership, reinvention, and presence in a rapidly changing environment 38:01 - Transforming organizations and leading sales initiatives 44:33 - Customer centricity and leadership principles for executives 51:07 - Partner roles and carrying quotas in business Key Takeaways -  Leaders need to continuously reinvent themselves and be open to change as industries evolve rapidly with new technologies. It's important to spend significant time externally with customers and partners to understand their needs and challenges. Balancing work and personal life, especially parenting, is very challenging but important to discuss openly. Carrying quotas or incentives in some form is important for partner roles to focus on generating business value. Surrounding oneself with diverse networks of peers and mentors is crucial for guidance in transforming organizations. Key Quotes -  "If you wake up every day and it's not a - Hell yeah!. Go find something else!” - Rachel Skaff