Equine Assisted World with Rupert Isaacson

✨ "I think the horse and the animal is kind of an anchor that keeps you in the present." – Krisztina MolnarDeep in the forest near Debrecen in eastern Hungary, a six-year-old foundation has become a home for animal-assisted therapy of every kind: clinical equine-assisted psychotherapy, work with neurodivergent children, family therapy, group therapy for children, adolescents and parents, and sessions for adults, alongside a small riding school, dressage and a vaulting team. Clinical psychologist Krisztina Molnar leads its clinical work with children and parents, supported by a team, 14 horses and three therapy dogs.The original plan was four to six horses and a quiet life in her "fairy forest." Instead, the foundation grew one family, one colleague and one need at a time, guided by a single principle: keep running something only as long as it serves everyone in the story, meaning the clients, the animals and the therapists. Along the way the forest itself became a therapeutic tool, complete with a wishing forest, a mound where problems can be blown away, and a transparent indoor arena that clients describe as a safety bubble inside nature.Rupert and Krisztina explore why nature can take clients deep very quickly, and why that is both a chance and a danger. They discuss how a classic "three wishes" diagnostic task becomes a fairy tale, what Winnicott's transitional space and the "wise mode" of schema therapy have to do with the forest, Hungary's relationship with mental health and transgenerational trauma, the difference between healthy fantasy and delusion, and why the horse is the anchor that keeps a person in the present moment.If you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome🔍 What You'll Learn in This EpisodeHow a foundation planned for four to six horses grew into a multi-program center with 14 horses, three dogs and a full teamWhy the guiding rule is to run something only as long as it serves clients, animals and therapists alikeWhy mentally healthy therapy horses need a natural environment, and how that shapes therapy before a session even startsWhy the forest can take clients deep very quickly, and why that brings both a chance to grow and a risk of falling apartWhy children who are overloaded by impressions may fear the forest, and what they are really afraid ofHow having a forest, an arena, a small indoor and an inside room lets the therapist tune the setting to each client's safety needsHow a transparent indoor arena, chosen because it was the cheapest option, works as a "safety bubble" and a transitional spaceHow magical places in the forest, like the wishing forest and the mound where problems are blown away, are built around clients' psychological needsHow the diagnostic "three wishes" task becomes a fairy tale, and how to translate a child's wish into an underlying needWhat schema therapy is, and how the forest may help clients connect to their inner "wise mode"How to tell healthy fantasy from delusion: does it connect you to yourself and others, or disconnect you?Why the horse acts as an anchor to the present momentHow Krisztina sees dressage as maintaining harmony through constant rebalancing, and why training of any kind helps therapy horses handle more situations🎤 Memorable Moments from the Episode00:03:40 Krisztina introduces herself as a clinical psychologist specializing in children and parents, certified to include her therapy dogs in sessions00:07:10 She reveals the original plan: four to six horses and a peaceful, quiet life in her fairy forest, which is not what happened00:08:50 Krisztina shares the one principle that guides every program: it runs only as long as it serves clients, animals and therapists00:22:50 She explains that frightened clients are not afraid of nature itself but of their own impulses projected onto the forest00:41:50 Krisztina describes nature as a model of resilience: a tree meeting an obstacle grows around it instead of trying the same way 100 times00:45:30 The transparent indoor arena, chosen as the cheapest option, turns out to be the best space for therapy, and clients call it a safety bubble in the forest00:51:00 The wishing forest story: Krisztina once wished for six horses and now has 14, so be careful what you wish for00:56:30 She shows how the "three wishes" diagnostic task becomes a fairy tale, and how a wish for one more toy car reveals a need to be heard01:16:40 Rupert asks whether there are real fairies in her forest, and Krisztina answers, "Of course there are"01:30:30 Krisztina draws the line between fantasy and delusion: imagination that connects you to yourself and your relationships, versus imagination that cuts you off01:49:30 Krisztina tells her own real-life fairy tale of asking the fairies for a life close to nature and horses, and finding more than she ever imagined📚 Contact, Projects, and Resources MentionedKrisztina Molnar – Clinical Psychologist, ÉletrevaLÓ Gyermekekért Alapítvány https://www.eletrevalodebrecen.com New Trails Learning Systems – Horse Boy Method, Movement Method & Takhin Equine Integration https://ntls.co Rupert Isaacson / Long Ride Home https://rupertisaacson.com Patreon Support https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome🌍 Follow UsLong Ride Home https://longridehome.com https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh https://youtube.com/@longridehome New Trails Learning Systems https://ntls.co https://facebook.com/horseboyworld https://instagram.com/horseboyworld https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems📊 Affiliate DisclosureLinks to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

 ✨ "Well, I'm an engineer. I collect data." – Laila Rahmatian Laila Rahmatian is an autism mom and former NASA engineer, originally from Houston and living in Indianapolis, Indiana when her son Donatello was diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder in October 2024 — now based near Frankfurt, Germany.Unlike most guests on this show, Laila isn't a practitioner — she's a service user. After her son's diagnosis, she brought her engineering background to bear on his care, systematically tracking data across a comparison of therapy approaches and, eventually, more than 70 Horse Boy Method sessions.This conversation covers Laila's diagnosis journey, why she walked away from a well-regarded autism center within minutes of touring it, the chance referral that led her family to Horse Boy Method after relocating to Germany, and the session-by-session developmental milestones her data captured — from a son who could barely stay on a horse for a minute to one making spontaneous eye contact, sleeping through the night, and initiating speech.If you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome🔍 What You'll Learn in This EpisodeWhy the first signs of Donatello's autism showed up not as a language delay but as a failure to respond to his own name — until a summer camp counselor discovered it wasn't the name he needed to hear, it was his mother's voiceHow Laila's background as a former NASA engineer, and later an ADHD coach and tutor, shaped her instinct to research every option rather than accept the first professional's recommended protocolWhy Laila and her husband initially tried to "rule out" the diagnosis entirely, and what changed their mindsWhat made Laila walk out of a well-regarded autism therapy center within ten minutes of touring it, and why environment turned out to matter as much as methodHow a chance referral from a school in Germany — not a marketing campaign — led Laila's family to Horse Boy Method for the first timeWhy Laila decided to start formally recording data on her son's sessions, and how skepticism from others became the reason she started tracking numbersWhat Laila's session-by-session data showed across roughly 70 sessions — from a child who could barely stay on the horse for a minute to one making spontaneous eye contact, sleeping through the night, and initiating speechHow working with multiple Horse Boy and Movement Method practitioners across Germany gave Laila a way to compare approaches and see which data patterns held upWhy Laila enrolled in Movement Method training herself rather than only bringing her son to sessions, and how that changed her ability to support him at homeWhat Laila is now planning for her family's next chapter — a "Horse Boy pilgrimage" across the practitioner network in Europe🎤 Memorable Moments from the Episode[00:01:15] Rupert introduces Laila as a mother tracking hard data on her autistic son's progress — and a former NASA scientist — flipping the show's usual practitioner-focused format[00:06:33] Laila recalls getting her son's diagnosis over the phone while driving, and telling the doctor she felt like they were "out to get my insurance money"[00:13:26] Laila breaks down in tears within ten minutes of touring a well-known autism therapy center, describing its sterile, neon-lit rooms as feeling like an asylum[00:29:30] Laila shares getting fired from a substitute teaching job at a Christian school for swearing in class — an unexpected twist in the chain of events that push her family toward the move to Germany[00:33:26] Laila recounts thinking "Horse Boy" was simply the German word for horse therapy, and mistakenly believing Rupert didn't speak English before their first meeting[00:39:50] Laila describes watching Donatello ride for the first time and hearing Rupert mention oxytocin and neuroplasticity — the moment she starts to move past her skepticism[00:54:52] Laila explains why she started formally logging data on every session: "Well, I'm an engineer. I collect data"[00:59:35] Laila walks through the data from session 19, when Donatello began saying "on" and "off" without prompting, answered yes/no questions at school, and slept through the night for the first time[01:20:38] Laila describes session 63, when Donatello pointed and said "That way" while on the horse[01:20:59] Laila recalls a session with practitioner Carla Brahms where Donatello sang and moved his hands on horseback, bringing Carla to tears📚 Contact, Projects, and Resources MentionedLaila Rahmatian https://www.instagram.com/lailaalieh/New Trails Learning Systems – Horse Boy Method, Movement Method & Takhin Equine Integration https://ntls.co Rupert Isaacson / Long Ride Home https://rupertisaacson.com Patreon Support https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome🌍 Follow UsLong Ride Home https://longridehome.com https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh https://youtube.com/@longridehome New Trails Learning Systems https://ntls.co https://facebook.com/horseboyworld https://instagram.com/horseboyworld https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems📊 Affiliate DisclosureLinks to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

✨ "It's not that I gave up. I switched." – Carolina Lockwood Carolina Lockwood joins Rupert Isaacson from Bariloche, in the Patagonia region of Argentina, where she has spent more than 30 years building equine-assisted work from the ground up — first blending art therapy with horses, then training directly with Rupert in Texas, then running an intensive Horse Boy–style program, then coaching, and now facilitating horse-based energy healing.What makes Carolina's story distinctive is the environment she's built it in. In the areas around Bariloche, horse theft for meat is a real and recurring danger — over the years Carolina has lost five horses to thieves, including cases where stolen horses were found slaughtered. She talks candidly about tracking horses down with the police, the informal social protections that eventually stabilized her herd's safety, and the anxiety that never fully goes away even after 30 years without an incident.The conversation traces her full arc: building a team of six staff and 30 kids a week at the height of her program, learning to read burnout in both horses and herself, closing that chapter deliberately rather than abandoning the work altogether, and evolving into equine coaching (trained through Kathy Pike and the Linda Kohanov lineage), liberty work (with Jean-François Pignon and Celeste Solzenne), and now a year-plus training in horse-facilitated energy healing with Saskia Marroquin of Caballo Cósmico. Along the way, Rupert and Carolina dig into what "energy work" actually means in practical terms, and why practitioners shouldn't feel locked into one rigid model for life.If you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome🔍 What You'll Learn in This EpisodeHow Carolina moved from art therapy and ceramics work with special-needs kids into equine-assisted work in Bariloche, PatagoniaWhy she traveled to Texas to train directly with Rupert after discovering the Horse Boy filmWhat it's actually like running horses in a region where theft and slaughter for meat is a recurring, organized threat — and how she and her family tracked down stolen horses with the policeWhy gauchos' and polo horses are rarely stolen while therapy and pleasure horses are the ones targetedHow Carolina rebuilt her herd's security by relocating and relying on informal community protection rather than fences or gunsWhat her own "non-structure structure" for horse welfare looks like, built around free roaming, herd life, and trust — and how it differs from the fitness-and-conditioning approach used in Horse Boy MethodHow she learned to read burnout in a horse, including a beloved therapy horse who started biting handlers when he was "done"Why she eventually closed her intensive riding-based program on purpose, and how she thinks about that decision nowHow she transitioned into equine coaching, training with Kathy Pike and the lineage of Linda Kohanov in ColoradoWhat liberty work with Jean-François Pignon and his student Celeste Solzenne taught her about horses reflecting a person's inner stateHow she began training in horse-facilitated energy healing with Saskia Marroquin of Caballo Cósmico, and what that work looks like in practiceThe story of a terminally ill client whose final wish involved Carolina's horses, and what it revealed to her about this kind of healingWhat Carolina's dream is for a future retreat and rescue sanctuary in Patagonia, and why she's decided to say it out loud🎤 Memorable Moments from the Episode[00:02:02] Carolina's path from art therapy and ceramics to horses, and the natural horsemanship training with Paul Walker that changed her perspective[00:06:27] Discovering the Horse Boy film, writing to Rupert, and going to Texas to train[00:11:56] The reality of horse theft and slaughter for meat in the mountains around Bariloche[00:15:22] Tracking down stolen horses with the police, and the ones she never got back[00:28:36] Carolina's "non-structure structure" for horse welfare, compared with Horse Boy's fitness-based system[00:38:00] A beloved therapy horse starts biting handlers — reading the signs of equine burnout[00:51:00] Carolina's own burnout, and the deliberate decision to close her intensive program[00:59:42] Liberty training with Jean-François Pignon and Celeste Solzenne[01:19:00] The story of a terminally ill client and what happened in her final horse session[01:32:55] Carolina's dream of a future healing retreat and rescue sanctuary in Patagonia📚 Contact, Projects, and Resources MentionedCarolina Lockwood – Equine-assisted practitioner, coach & energy healing facilitatorEmail: [email protected] Supporthttps://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome🌍 Follow UsLong Ride Homehttps://longridehome.comhttps://facebook.com/longridehome.lrhhttps://instagram.com/longridehome_lrhhttps://youtube.com/@longridehomeNew Trails Learning Systemshttps://ntls.cohttps://facebook.com/horseboyworldhttps://instagram.com/horseboyworldhttps://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems📊 Affiliate DisclosureLinks to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

✨ "It's not about the job or the wages. You have to love it with absolute passion." – Helen PichaHelen Picha manages Liskennett Farm, a groundbreaking equine-assisted therapy center for children and adults with autism and intellectual disabilities in Granagh, County Limerick, Ireland, on the border of Limerick and Cork. She took over as manager two years ago after eleven years working alongside founder David Doyle, and now runs the 80-acre center — home to 23 horses across residential, day, and equine programs — that Rupert calls the cutting edge of best practice in equine-assisted therapy.What sets Liskennett apart is scale paired with radical openness. Every Saturday, the farm runs a booking-free, fee-free open day that draws between 80 and 100 children, no appointment required, no family turned away. Its indoor arena, originally built for riding, has been repurposed entirely into a music, movement, and play space, because the horses and children preferred being outdoors. And many of Liskennett's horses are retired Thoroughbred racehorses, some placed at Cheltenham, brought down from the racing circuit through a careful, months-long retraining process before ever carrying a child.In this conversation, Helen and Rupert trace Liskennett's origin story — from a 2012 Horse Boy demo, a young woman's tragic death, and a €3 million donation to a modern therapy campus — and dig into how the farm actually runs day to day: horse selection and retraining, staff burnout prevention, community integration through an inclusive fox hunt and horse show, and Liskennett's expansion into new satellite centers backed by €6 million in Irish government funding.If you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome🔍 What You'll Learn in This EpisodeHow Liskennett Farm evolved from an 80-acre burned-out stud farm into a state-of-the-art residential, day, and equine therapy hub serving hundreds of children and adults with autism and intellectual disabilitiesWhy founder David Doyle built a "step in, step down, step out" model, letting families in crisis access residential support without being permanently separatedWhat Liskennett's booking-free Saturday open days look like, welcoming 80 to 100 children with no appointment, no fee, and no rushHow the farm's Christmas open day scaled to 300 children in a single day, all riding and meeting Santa, with zero bookings and zero meltdownsWhy Liskennett retired the original purpose of its indoor arena entirely, turning it into a music, movement, and play space insteadHow retired racehorses, many connected to the McManus racing family, are systematically retrained over six to twelve months before ever carrying a childWhat the "MMM Room" (Movement Method to Music) is, and how a chance visit from founder David Doyle's daughter Caroline inspired its creationHow Liskennett integrates families into local community life through an inclusive fox hunt, agricultural show classes, and an annual fundraising concertWhy Helen believes horsemanship fundamentals — temperament, soundness, and long, slow conditioning work — are the foundation of safe therapeutic ridingHow the farm is expanding with new satellite hubs in Charleville and Kanturk, backed by €6 million in HSE fundingWhat Helen learned from an early personal loss that quietly shaped her approach to working with families years before she ever set foot in LiskennettHow Helen and her team plan for staff burnout with rotating schedules, an open culture around asking for help, and regular team celebrations🎤 Memorable Moments from the Episode[00:04:50] Rupert traces how Liskennett came to exist: a 2012 Horse Boy demo organized by Shelley Murtagh, who died of a brain tumor three months later — and three years after that, an email from David Doyle leading to €3 million raised for the center[00:09:02] Helen shares that at age 20 she had a daughter, Danielle, born with spina bifida and hydrocephalus, who lived 11 months — an experience that quietly planted the seed for her future work, long before she knew it[00:12:13] Helen describes Liskennett's booking-free Saturday open days: up to 100 children riding between 9:30am and 3:30pm, with no appointment required and no family turned away[00:14:59] Last Christmas, 300 children went horse riding and met Santa in a single day with no booking system, and Helen says not one child had a meltdown[00:25:00] Rupert recalls the moment eight nonverbal autistic boys galloped past him independently on Liskennett's ponies, taking instruction and riding single file at the canter[00:31:43] Helen walks through how retired Thoroughbreds, including horses that placed at Cheltenham, are brought down from the racing circuit over six to twelve months before any child rides them[00:47:16] Helen tells the story behind the "MMM Room" — inspired by watching founder David Doyle's autistic daughter Caroline light up at the sight of mirrors and music in an unrelated training room[01:01:00] Helen reveals the scale of Liskennett's growth: a new satellite center in Kanturk backed by €6 million in HSE funding, with Ireland's Taoiseach turning the sod at the site[01:20:40] Rupert and Helen recall Staker Wallace, a JP McManus racehorse, briefly reverting to old "racing brain" habits while walking into the Limerick Racecourse parade ring before settling back down[01:43:57] Helen is coaxed into singing a verse of a Christy Moore song live on the show📚 Contact, Projects, and Resources MentionedHelen Picha – Manager, Liskennett Farm / St. Joseph's Foundation  https://www.sjf.ie/What-We-Do/Facilities/Liskennett-Farm Liskennett Farm – Facebook  https://facebook.com/LiskennettETC Liskennett Farm – Instagram  https://instagram.com/liskennettequinetherapy St. Joseph's Foundation  https://www.sjf.ie🌍 Follow UsLong Ride Home https://longridehome.com https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh https://youtube.com/@longridehome New Trails Learning Systems https://ntls.co https://facebook.com/horseboyworld https://instagram.com/horseboyworld https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems📊 Affiliate DisclosureLinks to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.

✨ "I think the worst thing that people can do is say no." – Nicola HepburnEquine Learning is a therapeutic and alternative education provision based at Wootton Park in Warwickshire, UK, founded by Nicola Hepburn in 2008 as one of the UK's earliest equine-facilitated learning organizations. Today it helps neurodivergent young people and adults with learning difficulties build academic, vocational, and life skills through horses — work that has grown from a small community project into a full alternative education provider funded largely through local authority contracts.Equine Learning's post-16 students earn accredited qualifications entirely through hands-on coursework rather than sit-down exams, spend two to three years working at their own pace, and never number more than six students a day — a boutique model built on trust rather than test scores.In this conversation, Nicola and Rupert dig into what it actually takes to fund and sustain a program like this: how to find and win local authority tenders, the property crises that nearly ended Equine Learning more than once, and the hard lessons about charging for services versus giving them away for free. Nicola also opens up about being homeless at 17 — an experience that shaped her mission to build the safe, inclusive space she needed as a teenager — and shares her master's research on educational trauma, plus her plans for a new wellness retreat program addressing menopause, grief, and midlife transitions.If you want to support the show, you can do so at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome🔍 What You'll Learn in This EpisodeHow Nicola Hepburn's path into equine-facilitated learning began with a 2005 training course, and how she trained under a colleague of US pioneer Barbara RectorHow Equine Learning evolved from a small 2006 community project for adults with learning difficulties into a full alternative education provision for neurodivergent post-16 studentsWhy Equine Learning's qualifications are entirely work-based and assessed through coursework rather than sit-down examsHow local authority tendering works, including where to find tendering portals and how to write a winning bidWhy persistence matters even after a tender rejection, and what Nicola learned from bids that didn't succeedWhy Nicola caps her education program at six students a day, and why students typically stay two to three yearsHow years of property setbacks — from a tiny barn arena to losing a fully-funded site — eventually led Nicola to Wootton ParkWhy she now advises new practitioners to look beyond a traditional "stable yard" when searching for propertyWhat she learned about entitlement and service value after offering free sessions early on, and why she moved to a paid model with limited scholarshipsWhy clear behavior policies and signed participant agreements protect both practitioners and the people they serveHow building trust — including letting a young person leave a session if they truly want to — creates lasting engagementWhat her master's research revealed about educational trauma in neurodivergent studentsHow Nicola's own experience of teenage homelessness shaped her mission to create Equine Learning's safe, inclusive space🎤 Memorable Moments from the Episode[00:00:44] Rupert introduces Nicola Hepburn of Equine Learning as one of the UK's equine-facilitated learning pioneers[00:02:07] Nicola traces her path into the field back to a 2005 training course at the Unicorn Trust in Stow-on-the-Wold[00:10:50] Nicola describes how Equine Learning evolved from adult day-center visits into a full alternative education provision for neurodivergent young people[00:24:43] Nicola walks through exactly how to find and win a local authority tender[00:34:01] Nicola recounts losing a fully-funded property right after raising £50,000 to build an arena, left with 20 horses and nowhere to go[00:47:22] Nicola shares her philosophy on asking for help: "the worst thing that people can do is say no"[00:52:04] Rupert tells the story of "Big Al," the Texas landowner who said no for years before his land became one of their most cherished spots[00:58:24] Nicola and Rupert compare notes on the risks of offering services for free versus charging[01:13:47] Nicola explains why letting a young person leave a session when they want to actually builds trust[01:19:02] Nicola opens up about becoming homeless at 17[01:21:47] Nicola credits a Blockbuster store manager who believed in her with turning her life around and helping her buy her first horse[01:35:07] Nicola shares her vision for wellness retreats addressing menopause and grief📚 Contact, Projects, and Resources MentionedNicola Hepburn – Founder, Equine Learning https://equinelearning.org.uk Email: [email protected] Trails Learning Systems – Horse Boy Method, Movement Method & Takhin Equine Integration https://ntls.coRupert Isaacson / Long Ride Home https://rupertisaacson.comPatreon Support https://www.patreon.com/LongRideHome🌍 Follow UsLong Ride Home https://longridehome.com https://facebook.com/longridehome.lrh https://instagram.com/longridehome_lrh https://youtube.com/@longridehomeNew Trails Learning Systems https://ntls.co https://facebook.com/horseboyworld https://instagram.com/horseboyworld https://youtube.com/newtrailslearningsystems📊 Affiliate DisclosureLinks to books and products may include affiliate tracking. We may earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no extra cost to you. Thank you for supporting the show.