Cult Chat

In this interview, Lindy Jacomb sits down with Heidi Clemons, Accredited Financial Counselor (AFC®) and founder of Managed Expectations, to unpack the often-overlooked topic of financial trauma. Heidi explores how financial trauma affects former cult members on their path to self-efficacy and recovery, and shares practical tools, insights, and first steps for getting support if money has become a source of fear, shame, or control.

What do cult recruitment tactics and a high-end kitchen gadget have in common? More than you might expect. In this episode, we unpack Cialdini’s Seven Principles of Influence, using Liz’s enthusiastic love of her new Thermomix (and some playful attempts to persuade Lindy to buy one) as a light-hearted case study. We then turn the lens to how these same persuasion techniques are deliberately used in cult recruitment and control, revealing how influence works, why it’s so powerful, and where it crosses the line into manipulation.

Why are the Cult Chat trio recording this week's episode on a beach? What have glamping and fire-dancing got to do with cults? Something? Nothing? Join us as we chat from a summer beach location while reflecting on our learnings from 2025. We get an update from Liz on the Gloriavale School closure and the criminal conviction of the cult’s leader, and we share our hopes for the 2026 NZ cult awareness movement. Show NotesInterview: RNZ Doomsday Comedy with Jonas Skogstroll and NZ Tour DatesInterview:  Get a Life Podcast with Steve Simmons (Ex Exclusive Brethren - Lindy’s Dad).Article: Convicted sex offender Howard Temple attends the community market while on bailArticle: RNZ What Will Happen to Gloriavale’s students over the school closes?

What is awe, and how is this emotion exploited by cults? How is awe related to infatuation, to the experience of falling in love romantically, and what has it got to do with babies and cults? How can humour be used to breakdown the residual after effects of awe for those who have left cults? Join us for a fascinating conversation with Dr Yuval Laor about these emotions and how they are manipulated in cults and how understanding their effects can support recovery.

Lindy has an interesting chat with Rose Stanley about burnout, boundaries, the need for a sane spirituality and how to rebuild with clarity, courage, and compassion. The Cult Chat team then joins the discussion to unpack what healthy spiritual life really looks like. This episode offers a gentle, practical guide to staying sane and whole in faith spaces.

This week we meet Jonas, stand-up comedian, former Jehovah’s Witness, and goat-farmer living in Norway. Laugh along with the Cult Chat trio as they learn what it is that goats and worldly people have in common, and exactly how Jonas decides which parts of being in a cult are ok to joke about. This episode comes in advance of Jonas’ trip to New Zealand in January where he will be staging a peaceful protest at the Annual Jehovah's Witness convention and touring NZ with his Doomsday comedy show.

Why are there often more women than men in cults, and is it harder for women to leave? What is reproductive coercion? How is it used in cults to control the freedoms and choices of women? Join the Cult Chat trio for this important conversation as they explore the unique vulnerabilities that women have in cults and how these vulnerabilities are often targeted and exploited. Trigger warning - discussion of suicide.Show notesPodcast - Cult Chat Episode 24 - Coercive Control - What is it? https://youtu.be/HO5TRYdZCX4?si=-X5pB7RIBx2ly6PJPodcast - Cult Chat Episode 25 - Coercive Control - Is it Legal? https://youtu.be/z93AopyG6Pk?si=OHvQLFzEnyYkhwLoWebsite - Cult-Informed Professional Network -  www.cipnetwork.orgPodcast - Cult Chat Episode 77 - Life for Women in 2x2s with Veronica & Lindsay (P2) https://youtu.be/ZRwOSFL_VKo?si=lVFcaOGCyjUQUuvJJournal article - The health impacts of women's low control in their living environment: A theory-based systematic review of observational studies in societies with profound gender discrimination - Pennington et al Health Place Journal 2018 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29482064/Thesis - Understanding Reproductive Coercion in Cults and Destructive Group Settings by Ashlen Weltz https://library.internationalculticstudies.org/24nbuck/~~PdfSource/0Article - As Belgium Races to Save U.S.A.I.D. Contraception, Some Supplies Are Reported Ruined - New York Times - https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/12/world/europe/belgium-usaid-contraception.htmlWebsite - Briell Decker - FLDS survivor and wife of Warren Jeffs - https://www.brielldecker.com/about-1

Get ready for a challenging but extremely important conversation with Debbs Murray, founder of Eclipse Family Violence Services. Caz and Debbs chat about the overlap between the world of family violence and cultic harm and how coercive control presents  similarly and differently in these parallel contexts. Trigger warning - discussion of suicide and sexual violence.Show NotesWebsite: https://www.eclipsefamilyviolenceservices.co.nz/Documentary: American Murder - Gabby Petito https://www.imdb.com/title/tt35590630/Legislation: Family Violence Act 2018 - https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2018/0046/latest/lms112966.htmlBook: One Soul One Survivor by Debbs Murray - https://www.eclipsefamilyviolenceservices.co.nz/debbs-story

Join us for Part two of our brave interview with Veronica and Lindsay as they share what life was really like for women growing up in the 2x2's (The Truth, The Way, The Church With No Name). Hear their stories of rules (but no rules), control, silence, resilience, and freedom. Then listen in to the Cult Chat Trio as they discuss the interview.

Join us for a brave discussion as Veronica and Lindsay share what life was really like for women growing up in the 2x2's (also known as The Truth, The Way, The Church With No Name). These women are among the first in New Zealand to speak publicly about their experiences inside this secretive religious group. Hear their stories of rules (but no rules), control, silence, resilience, and freedom. Part two next week!

John Lennon’s famous song "Imagine" paints a vision of a perfect world — and cults often promise something similar. So in the spirit of fairness, this week, we take a surprising detour to explore the good things and the benefits that members say about life inside: belonging, structure, shared ideals, and hope for something better. These dreams are powerful — and they can make leaving hard. But are they just an illusion? Listen in, and let us know if we have done the topic justice!Show NotesArticle: Gloriavale Leavers Support Trust 10 Reasons People Remain at GloriavaleArticle: BBC Australian sect members guilty of causing girl's death - information about the Elizabeth Struhs deathDocumentary: Wild Wild Country - Netflix previewCult Chat episode 31: Sam Jahara (Part 1) The Children of Rajneesh and Centrepoint

Following their conversation with Dr Steve Hassan in part 1 about cult apologists, our hosts kept talking!  In this part 2 of the conversation they talk about the importance of survivor voices in research, and why historically some researchers have appeared to listen to cult leaders rather than cult survivors. They share some illuminating facts about specific cult apologists, and how a minimising narrative from apologists has had impacts in New Zealand.Show notesArticle: Secrets, Lies & a Mysterious Cup of Tea - Stuff - the police corruption in the Centrepoint case Articles: The Cult Apologist Mafia - Luigi Corvaglia - Part 1, Part 2 & Part 3Website - FECRIS (European Federation of Centres of Research and Information on Cults and Sects)Article - Meet the Shadowy Scholars Supporting England's Doomsday Cult -  Be Schofield Website - AROPL (Ahmadi Religion of Peace and Light) Website - Apologetics and Academic Supporters of The Family - Family X (ex-Children of God / The Family International)Article - The Benefits of Dialogue - International Cultic Studies AssociationSteven Kent ArticleArticle: Dr Norris and the Gloriavale employment court case - Gloriavale Leavers Support TrustReview of Days of Rain by Mossimo ItrivgneWebsite - Bitter WinterDocumentaries - Gloriavale Propaganda documentaries and Escaping Utopia Bryan Wilson and the PBCCWebsite: CESNUR (Centre for Studies on New Religions) - run by Massimo Itrovigne

This week we invite Dr Steven Hassan to join us to discuss the cult apologist movement. Dr Hassan is the author of the BITE Model of Authoritarian Control and the Influence Continuum. In this fascinating conversation we unpack the history behind this propaganda movement, why survivor voices are not welcome in their narratives, and examine why high profile cult apologists like Professor Eileen Barker might be given a platform to speak at academic conferences whose goal is to examine the harms of cults.Show NotesWebsite: London School of Economic and Political Science - Professor Eileen BarkerWebsite: Freedom of Mind Resource Centre - the Influence Continuum Professional Development: Understanding Cults for Clinicians - Freedom of MindSurvey: the use of the Bite Model as a tool for evaluating organisationsWebsite: Daniel Kahneman’s work on judgement and decision-makingBook: Releasing the Bonds by Dr Steven HassanArticle: New York Times: Moon’s sect loses libel suit in London

What do cults and extremist terrorist organisations have in common? How are recruitment methods similar, and what are some of the vulnerabilities that such groups exploit in order to attract and retain conscripts? These are some of the questions which Caz and Dr Cyrus Abbasian, London-based psychiatrist, discuss as they explore this topic, covering neurodivergence, mental illness and coercive control in healthcare decision-making, amongst other things.Show notes:Documentary: World White Hate - LinkedIn profile: Dr Cyrus AbbasianWebsite: Centre for Research and Evidence on Security Threats (CREST)Website: Prevent Duty Training

*Trigger Warning* What exactly is needed for an organisation to be safe for a child? Willow Duffy, co-founder and CEO of Safeguarding Children, answers these questions and more, in a conversation which explores what can be done when an organisation not only fails to have the rights of children at its centre, but instead actively promotes processes which harm children. Is a policy enough when the culture is destructive to a child’s welfare? Join us for this challenging but important conversation.

Gloriavale again! We come back to talk about the other reason that the closed West Coast community is in the news again - this time because the Overseeing Shepherd - the community’s leader, Howard Temple - has just been convicted of indecent assault of numerous girls and women at Gloriavale. Our hosts discuss the culture that allowed his public behaviour to become normal, the impossibility of speaking up as a victim in this community, and what lies behind the entitlement of his actions.

Gloriavale is all over the news again, and for the wrong reasons. This week our hosts talk about the recent Education Review Office report which revealed that the Gloriavale School has failed yet again to meet the basic requirements expected to function as an education provider. Liz explains the background to this report and asks the question, at what point is there enough evidence that this school cannot provide the necessary ingredients to educate children well and safely?Show NotesArticle - Radio New Zealand - Gloriavale school faces possible closure after second audit failureArticle - Radio New Zealand - Gloriavale school fails second ERO auditEducation Review Office - Gloriavale school reportsArticle - Radio New Zealand - Gloriavale leader Howard Temple pleads guilty to indecency chargesEvent - Olive Leaf Network - What’s Your Story?

This week we have a bonus episode - part 2 of our conversational expose about the International Cultic Studies Association Conference which Caz went to in Montreal in July. We wrap up our conversation by talking about emerging evidence on child abuse in cults, the relationship between sacred values and the extreme actions a person is willing to take for their group, male experience of cultic abuse, collective narcissism and healing the spiritual self after it has been abused in in a cult. Show notesWebsite: International Cultic Studies Association Survey -  questionnaire for participants wishing to take part in research for people born and raised in cultsLinkedIn profile - Prof Omar Saldana - Identity Fusion - LinkedIn profile - Dr Andre Jackson - Collective Narcissism 

You'll love this pot luck episode! Caz has just returned from the International Cultic Studies Association conference in Montreal, Canada. We’re joined in this episode with ‘friend of the show’ Maria Esguerra who also went to the conference. Maria and Caz fill Lindy and Liz in on their learnings from the conference, covering topics such as neurodiversity, financial abuse, cult apologists, the power of social media for cult survivor activism. We talked so much we had to do a second episode!Show NotesWebsite: International Cultic Studies AssociationWebsite: Get A Life PodcastInstagram: Ben Woodbury excultboyLinkedIn: Maria EsguerraLinkedIn: Heidi ClemonsLinkedIn: Omar Saldana

It is difficult to truly leave a cult if someone you love remains in the group. In this chat Liz, Lindy and Caz talk about the difficult line that former members often have to navigate after leaving because they still have people in their lives who remain in the group. Join us as we discuss setting clear boundaries and keeping yourself safe, understanding what it is you want from the ongoing contact, and the lifeline ongoing contact can offer to your loved ones if they ever decide to leave.Show NotesBook: “Cult Trip” - Anke RichterPodcast episode: Cult Chat episodes 48 & 49 - Health Care and Cults Parts 1 & 2 with Gina Catena Book: “Walking Free from the Trauma of Coercive, Cultic and Spiritual Abuse” - Gillie Jenkinson Podcast: Cult Chat episode 57 - Waking Up with Andre Jackson