Engaging ESG with Jennifer Owens and Kati Kallins

This week, Jennifer and Kati sit down with Joel Makower, chairman and co-founder of Trellis Group, for a candid conversation about the current state of sustainability communications after 35+ years in the field. Joel shares why we're living with higher highs and lower lows than ever before. We explore the trust crisis affecting not just sustainability, but business, media, science and government — and what it means for communicators trying to make the case for climate action. Joel also offers his advice for integrating head and heart through storytelling, how to reframe sustainability as "better" rather than sacrifice, and why ESG became a political landmine while the s-word endures. Have a question for us? Email us today at engagingesg@gmail.com! Learn more about Engaging ESG at bit.ly/EngagingESGpod. Show Links Learn more about Joel Makower Visit Trellis Watch: Joel Makower: Poetry in Motion Listen: Smartless Listen: So Many Steves: Afternoons with Steve Martin Our theme music is "Lost in Translation" by Wendy Marcini and Elvin Vangard. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Climate and sustainability strategist Marina Psaros joins Jennifer and Kati to explore an unexpected frontier for climate communications: the gaming world. Marina shares her journey from NOAA scientist to Head of Sustainability at Unity Technologies, and how that experience revealed a massive untapped opportunity. With 3 billion people playing games worldwide, gaming communities have become powerful "third spaces" where climate conversations are already happening, just without professional communicators at the table. We also explore Marina's beautiful book, The Atlas of Disappearing Places, and why she chose to frame fossil fuel dependence as an addiction rather than an individual moral failing. Learn how this shift from blame to systemic thinking opens up more honest, actionable conversations about climate. Have a question for us? Email us today at engagingesg@gmail.com! Learn more about Engaging ESG at ⁠bit.ly/EngagingESGpod.⁠ Our theme music is "Lost in Translation" by Wendy Marcini and Elvin Vangard. Show Links Learn more about Marina Psaros at marinapsaros.com. Read: The Atlas of Disappearing Places: Our Coasts and Oceans in the Climate Crisis Read: Social strategies to engage video gamers in climate action Listen: Earthworks podcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Michael Neuwirth has built what he calls a "portfolio career" — and after hearing his story, you'll want one too. The communications veteran spent 20+ years at Danone, served as the first Chief Communications Officer for the American Sustainable Business Council, and now angel invests in 14 sustainability-focused startups (from period equity solutions to upcycled food platforms). In this wide-ranging conversation, Michael reveals why authentic storytelling is the fabric that holds early-stage companies together, how sustainability communications evolved from charity golf outings and "chairman projects" to strategic business imperatives, and why comms professionals must expect — and not ask for — a seat at the decision-making table. Have a question for us? Email us today at engagingesg@gmail.com! Learn more about Engaging ESG at ⁠bit.ly/EngagingESGpod.⁠ Show Links Learn more about Michael Neuwirth Watch: Pluribus Listen: Desperately Seeking the 80s   Our theme music is "Lost in Translation" by Wendy Marcini and Elvin Vangard. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Engaging ESG returns for season 4 on January 7th. Engaging ESG is a bimonthly series exploring the evolving landscape of ESG communications. Join Jennifer Owens, former external content strategy lead for Meta Sustainability, and Kati Kallins, former head of sustainability engagement at Meta, as they address the pitfalls and opportunities hidden in your ESG comms plan and provide practical answers you and your team can use today. Learn more about Engaging ESG at ⁠bit.ly/EngagingESGpod.⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Fresh from their first in-person meeting since launching Engaging ESG, Jennifer and Kati share candid reflections on New York Climate Week. From experiencing Conservation International's immersive VR storytelling at Adobe's event at the LinkedIn offices to hearing powerful testimonies about carbon markets from Georgia landowners, they explore the week's standout moments. The conversation covers the shift from innovation-focused moonshots to practical implementation, the inspiring emphasis on collaboration across every session, and the heartening international presence despite political uncertainty. Between subway adventures and a Jack-and-Rose moment at the Empire State Building, they reflect on how the sustainability community is maturing — moving beyond press releases to embedded business practices and building resilience for the long term. Show Link: From the Ground Up:Voices of the Carbon Market Have a question for us? Email us today at engagingesg@gmail.com! Learn more about Engaging ESG at bit.ly/EngagingESGpod. Our theme music is "Lost in Translation" by Wendy Marcini and Elvin Vangard. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dr. Victoria Hurth joins Jennifer and Kati for our season finale to explore how purpose-driven governance can transform business decision-making for sustainability. As co-designer of Cambridge Institute for Sustainability Leadership's course on sustainable marketing and a leader in the development of ISO 37011, Victoria explains why our current economic systems systematically undermine the well-being they claim to create. Victoria also shares the three-horizon framework for understanding organizational transformation — from short-term self-interest to long-term self-interest to purpose-driven organizations optimizing for "long-term well-being for all" — and closes out our season by highlighting the abundance of positive human energy just waiting to be directed. Have a question for us? Email us today at engagingesg@gmail.com! Learn more about Engaging ESG at ⁠bit.ly/EngagingESGpod.⁠ Show links Humankind: A Hopeful History by Rutger Bregman Citizens: Why the Key to Fixing Everything is All of Us by Jon Alexander Our theme music is "Lost in Translation" by Wendy Marcini and Elvin Vangard. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Jennifer and Kati sit down with Al Iannuzzi, Vice President of Sustainability at The Estée Lauder Companies, for a candid conversation about sustainable product evolution in today's challenging business landscape.  Al shares his provocative perspective that "There's no such thing as a green product" and offers practical guidance on communicating sustainability improvements without greenwashing.   Drawing from his book, "Greener Products," he also discusses how companies can balance economic pressures with growing stakeholder demands for sustainability.  Have a question for us? Email us today at engagingesg@gmail.com!  Learn more about Engaging ESG at ⁠bit.ly/EngagingESGpod.⁠ Show links  Learn more about Al Iannuzzi.  Greener Products: The Making and Marketing of Sustainable Brands  The Value of Values: How Leaders Can Grow Their Businesses and Enhance Their Careers by Doing the Right Thing  Read Suzanne Shelton at ERM Shelton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Kati and Jennifer are joined by Paull Young, GitHub's first head of sustainability, for a wide-ranging discussion about leveraging technology to accelerate climate action.   From green software to the role of artificial intelligence in climate solutions, our conversation explores how developers and technologists can contribute to sustainability goals, the realities of AI's energy footprint, and why giving people tangible ways to take action may be the best antidote to climate despair.   Drawing from his experiences across multiple tech platforms, Paull offers his thoughtful perspective on why he remains optimistic about technology's potential to accelerate positive environmental change.  Have a question for us? Email us today at engagingesg@gmail.com!  Learn more about Engaging ESG at ⁠bit.ly/EngagingESGpod.⁠ Learn more about Paull Young and listen to his podcast Climate Dads.  Our theme music is "Lost in Translation" by Wendy Marcini and Elvin Vangard.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Professor Robert Barlow from Hult International Business School joins Jennifer + Kati to explore how business schools can effectively teach sustainability and ESG in an evolving political landscape. From building Hult's highly-ranked sustainability curriculum to his current research on Chief Sustainability Officers, Rob discusses why business education needs to develop new frameworks for measuring impact, why sustainability roles can't simply be distributed across organizations, and how today's MBA students are approaching these topics differently than previous generations.  Have a question for us? Email us today at engagingesg@gmail.com!  Learn more about Engaging ESG at ⁠bit.ly/EngagingESGpod.⁠ Learn more about Rob Barlow.  Our theme music is "Lost in Translation" by Wendy Marcini and Elvin Vangard.  Episode Links  Cormac McCarthy: Blood Meridian: Or the Evening Redness in the West  The Brothers Karamazov  Return on Sustainability Investment research at NYU  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sustainability expert Lyrica McTiernan joins Jennifer and Kati to explore how companies are navigating the evolving world of corporate climate commitments. From the shifting terminology of ESG to the emergence of climate transition plans, they discuss what's working, what's broken, and why 2025 could be a pivotal year for corporate environmental action. Have a question for us? Email us today at engagingesg@gmail.com Learn more about Lyrica McTiernan at lyricaconsults.com. Our theme music is "Lost in Translation" by Wendy Marcini and Elvin Vangard. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We’re ending Season Two by tackling the question we’ve all been asked at one time or another: Why should we care about ESG?   In this episode, Kati and Jennifer look at our history, from the early concepts of a “license to operate,” to today’s increasing regulations around sustainability claims coming from both EMEA and the U.S.   As Mike Wallace, decarbonization officer at Persefoni, states: “You’re going to have to figure out what’s the language you’re going to use to stay in compliance, but also continue to do business with your biggest customers asking you for sustainability, carbon data or ESG data.”  Have a question for us? Email us today at engagingesg@gmail.com!  Our theme music is “Lost in Translation” by Wendy Marcini and Elvin Vangard.  Episode Links  Science Based Targets  Updated - Corporate Social Responsibility: A Brief History  “Nobody Wants to Work Anymore” on Instagram  America’s ESG Hiring Boom Is Starting to Cool  Companies Say Push to Decarbonize Comes From Their Own Boards - WSJ  MPP Global Project Tracker  ESG is everything you do  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Scope 3 emissions are the big beast many companies must tackle to truly reduce their carbon footprint. In this episode, Jennifer and Kati explore how major companies like Walmart are going beyond their own operations to drive emissions reductions across their vast supply chain. They also look at what lies beyond Scope 3 in the journey towards true net zero.  Have a question for us? Email us today at engagingesg@gmail.com!  Our theme music is “Lost in Translation” by Wendy Marcini and Elvin Vangard.  Episode Links  CEO Doug McMillon: Walmart’s supply chain cut 1 billion tons of emissions 6 years ahead of schedule | GreenBiz  Walmart reaches halfway to Project Gigaton | GreenBiz  Why a Sustainable Supply Chain Should Be a Business Imperative | Progressive Grocer  Scoping out: Tracking nature across the supply chain - CDP  The SBTi releases new reports to help accelerate corporate climate action beyond the value chain  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

From the roofs over our heads to the floors beneath our feet, the environment built around us surrounds us an estimated 90% of our day — everyday.   In this episode, Kati and Jennifer consider what it takes to make our homes and workplaces healthy, from our carpets, desks and office chairs to massive green roofs designed to support biodiversity.   Have a question for us? Email us today at engagingesg@gmail.com!  Our theme music is “Lost in Translation” by Wendy Marcini and Elvin Vangard.   Episode Links  Google I/O 2021: Being helpful in moments that matter  New progress toward our 24/7 carbon-free energy goal  Building with Mushrooms to Reduce Drywall Waste | landfill, sustainability  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When it comes to the road ahead there are no easy fixes, only continuing progress, for the automotive industry. Relatable education on the nuances, trade-offs and limitations in play across vehicles, supply chains and business models are key but so are activist voices.   In this episode, Kati and I flip the script and explore climate activist messaging targeting the auto industry, focusing on great examples of emotional, visceral and innovative creative work — while also assessing their impact on the industry overall.  Have a question for us? Email us today at engagingesg@gmail.com!  Our theme music is “Lost in Translation” by Wendy Marcini and Elvin Vangard.  Episode Links  We Tried to Warn You! Environmental Crisis Posters, 1970–2020  ‘Crying Indian’ Ad That Targeted Pollution to Be Retired - The New York Times  Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda talks about why he isn't all-in on EVs — and what made him do a 'happy dance'  How to make automotive companies sustainable | EY - Global  US Could Become Odd Market Out in EV Success Story  Fake ads mocking corporate sponsors of the COP21 climate talks pop up in Paris | CBC News  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Just Transition seeks to build economic and political power for communities to move away from extractive systems towards regenerative ones — but what will take to get there?  In this episode, Jennifer + Kati consider the frameworks and elements that fuels the work towards a just transition, including reparations, social equity as well as decentralizing production/consumption.  Have a question for us? Email us today at engagingesg@gmail.com!  Our theme music is “Lost in Translation” by Wendy Marcini and Elvin Vangard.  Episode Links  Just Transition - Climate Justice Alliance  Plenty Opens World’s Most Technologically Advanced Indoor Vertical Farm in Compton  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The finance sector is key to unlocking the system-wide change needed to reach net-zero emissions and a recent survey finds the vast majority of senior investors and business executives planning to increase their ESG investment over the next five years. In this episode, Kati + Jennifer consider where financial institutions are investing and lending money — and how major players like Blackrock, Citi and Chubb are responding to stakeholder pressures. Have a question for us? Email us today at engagingesg@gmail.com! Our theme music is “Lost in Translation” by Wendy Marcini and Elvin Vangard.   Episode Links Thereal impact of the ESG backlash Investors,Businesses to Increase ESG Investment Despite Greenwashing Scrutiny & Political Pushback: Bloomberg Survey Sustainability in Insurance - MetLife, Liberty Mutual &HSBC ChubbAnnounces New Climate and Conservation-Focused Underwriting Standards for Oiland Gas Extraction - Mar 22, 2023 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Kati and Jennifer drive up a semi-sequel to our retail and packaging episode — as in what comes next when it comes to getting food into your fridge and your clothes in your closet.   Shipping and trucking are complicated industries that touch nearly every aspect of our lives. In this episode we’ll consider how ESG professionals are communicating a puzzle that consists of a zillion interlocking pieces and impacts legions of stakeholders.  Have a question for us? Email us today at engagingesg@gmail.com!  Our theme music is “Lost in Translation” by Wendy Marcini and Elvin Vangard.  Episode Links  California Pushes Electric Trucks as the Future of Freight - The New York Times  Outrage and Optimism Podcast: Greening Shipping  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, Kati + Jennifer cover how big familiar consumer brands like PepsiCo, H&M, Unilever and Amazon are approaching sustainability in packaging and materials — and the lessons we can take from them as ESG comms professionals. Join us as we dive into the upstream efforts of these companies to reduce waste and carbon emissions, learn how they are communicating these efforts to consumers and of course, consider how they are reacting to climate action criticism in real time. Have a question for us? Email us today at engagingesg@gmail.com! Our theme music is “Lost in Translation” by Wendy Marcini and Elvin Vangard. Episode Links The Burning Problem of Japan’s Waste Disposal - Tokyo Review PepsiCo Struggles to Advance its Plastic Sustainability Goals | Packaging Dive H&M Launches Green Loan Program to Finance Suppliers’ Emissions Reductions Initiatives - ESG Today Why We Need a Global Treaty to End Plastic Pollution Breaking the Plastic Wave: Top Findings for Preventing Plastic Pollution | The Pew Charitable Trusts Great Pacific Garbage Patch Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Fasten your seatbelts because we’re going to zoom into travel — specifically, airlines. It's certainly a hot topic for sustainability but it’s also a return visit for a theme we considered in Season One: airline advertising. From carbon-neutral claims to sustainable airline fuel, travel is a hotbed of sustainability questions, concerns and even lawsuits. Join Jennifer + Kati as they break it all down and consider its impact on ESG comms overall Have a question for us? Email us today at engagingesg@gmail.com! Our theme music is “Lost in Translation” by Wendy Marcini and Elvin Vangard. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Kati and Jennifer are back on the mic for a brand-new season of Engaging ESG. This time they're shifting gears to spotlight how specific industry sectors are navigating and communicating through the ever-evolving sustainability landscape. The new season kicks off with a round-up of key sustainability news and policy changes impacting the world of ESG comms. Have a question? Email us today at engagingesg@gmail.com! Our theme music is “Lost in Translation” by Wendy Marcini and Elvin Vangard. Episode Links  COP28: Key takeaways for investors from the global climate summit  Billion-Dollar Weather and Climate Disasters  CSR Needs CPR: Corporate Sustainability and Politics  New California Law Imposes Anti-Greenwashing Disclosure Requirements Starting January 2024  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices