Everything Happens with Kate Bowler

What does it mean to live well when danger, loss, and grief are never far away? Kate Bowler talks with theologian, pastor, and writer Patrik Hagman, whose life has been shaped by profound loss—including the death of his father, his young son, and later his wife. Raised in Finland and now living in Sweden, Patrik brings a distinctly Nordic perspective on happiness—not as constant joy or self-optimization, but as contentment, trust, and gratitude that survives close proximity to fragility. This is a conversation about living with fewer explanations and more honesty. About faith that refuses easy answers. About the strange clarity that comes when life gets very small and very bright at the same time. And about learning to be less surprised by tragedy—and more surprised by goodness. If you’re trying to hold grief and gratitude at once, this episode is for you. SHOW NOTES Babettes Kulturhus (Linköping, Sweden) – community space for conversation, fika, and culture Stanley Hauerwas – theologian often referenced in the conversation Patrik Hagman – theologian, pastor, writer, and translator of Stanley Hauerwas’s work Pre-order Joyful Anyway by Kate Bowler Tour dates & tickets: katebowler.com/joyfulanyway Watch the live conversation on YouTube Join Kate Bowler on Substack for the season of Lent: katebowler.substack.com See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

When many people hear the word Christian today, it comes with a lot of baggage—power, certainty, exclusion, and culture-war posturing. But there are still people of faith whose lives look nothing like that. People whose beliefs show up as love. Patient, persistent, deeply practical love. Bishop Michael Curry is one of those people. A priest, pastor, and former Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church, Bishop Curry has spent a lifetime reminding people that Christianity is not an argument to win or an identity to defend—it’s a practice of love. Recorded in front of a room full of pastors, this conversation is a kind of holy pep talk for anyone who feels worn down by a fractured, exhausting world. Show notes: Pre-order Joyful Anyway by Kate Bowler Tour dates & tickets: katebowler.com/joyfulanyway Watch the live conversation on YouTube Kate Bowler on Substack: katebowler.substack.com See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What do we do when the world feels unbearably heavy—and no one is coming to save us? To kick off Season 16 of Everything Happens, Kate Bowler sits down live with beloved author and truth-teller Anne Lamott for a luminous, funny, and deeply honest conversation about shame, joy, faith, aging, love, and what it means to keep showing up anyway. Recorded in front of a packed house at the historic Carolina Theatre in Durham, Kate and Anne talk about the shame that follows us from childhood, the relief of putting down our armor, and the small, ordinary acts of love that still matter. This is a conversation for anyone who feels tender, overwhelmed, skeptical of easy answers—and still hungry for hope. Show notes: Anne Lamott on Substack Pre-order Joyful Anyway by Kate Bowler Tour dates & tickets: katebowler.com/joyfulanyway Watch the live conversation on YouTube Kate Bowler on Substack: katebowler.substack.com Anne Lamott Bird by Bird Operating Instructions Traveling Mercies Good Writing (with Neil Allen) Maggie Smith, "Good Bones" Naomi Shihab Nye, “Gate A-4” William Blake, “We are here to learn to endure the beams of love” See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

How do we stay soft in a world that has taught us to be tough? Actress Minka Kelly is known for her roles as Lyla Garrity on Friday Night Lights or as Samantha in HBO’s Euphoria. Despite her fame on the big screen, one might not realize the chaos that surrounded her childhood. Being raised by a single mom who worked as a stripper and struggled with addiction, Minka had to learn how to take care of herself and the adults around her, and, eventually, to forgive her mom.  In this tender conversation, Kate and Minka discuss: How we can be built from the outside in through our friendships and how our friends become our chosen family How anger tells us that a boundary has been crossed The unfinished ways people love us—reconciling our complicated childhoods with the love we feel for each another How Minka has processed her difficult childhood through a lens of love and grace The way Minka’s mom was changed by her cancer diagnosis, and how once they found their way to one another again, there could never, ever be enough time CW: colon cancer, death of a parent, brief mentions of abuse and neglect Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here. Subscribe to Kate’s Substack for blessings, essays, and reflections that hold what’s hard and beautiful. This episode originally aired May 2023.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Author and Episcopal priest Barbara Brown Taylor is no stranger to darkness. After experiencing devastating loss, Barbara explores our culture’s pursuit of the sunny side of life. But perhaps there are things we learn in the dark that we can’t learn in the light. Kate and Barbara discuss the two halves of our lives and how to practice courage even in the scariest of circumstances. CW: Death of parents, tongue cancer For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions, click here. Subscribe to Kate’s Substack for blessings, essays, and reflections that hold what’s hard and beautiful. This episode originally aired December 2022.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Bryan Stevenson (founder of the Equal Justice Initiative) is committed to ending mass incarceration and excessive punishment, to challenging racial and economic injustice, and to protecting basic human rights for the most vulnerable among us. In this episode, Kate and Bryan discuss:  The hope that motivates Bryan in this slow, sometimes frustrating work of justice What it means to be a ‘stonecatcher’ (and why it serves both the one being condemned and the one doing the condemning) The power of forgiveness, maybe especially toward those who don’t deserve it   CW: discussion of slavery, lynching, and other racist violence, death row *** Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here. Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter. Subscribe to receive blessings in your inbox every week. No Cure for Being Human (And Other Truths I Need to Hear) is now available in PAPERBACK. Order your copy, today. Looking for some short spiritual reflections and blessings? Check out GOOD ENOUGH: 40ish Devotionals for a Life of Imperfection. Available wherever books are sold. Introducing THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days (releasing February 14, 2023). Learn more, pre-order, and receive a free pennant, here. Leave us a voicemail and who knows? We might even be able to use your voice on the air: 919-322-8731   This episode originally aired December 2022.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What if you started thinking really concretely about small, hard choices? That’s exactly what palliative care physicians do every day. They help us think about what we really want—knowing that we have limited time and limited resources. You’re going to love our guest today, Dr. Kathryn Mannix, palliative care physician and cognitive behavioral therapist. She offers practical steps to help people and their loved ones make sense of what limited choices they have, navigate any pain and fear they may experience, and gives the most comforting speech on what the end of a life looks like that we’ve ever heard. (I promise this is not scary at all. It is perfect.) In this conversation, Kate and Kathryn discuss: Why we want to keep a lid on the scary things of life  What even is palliative care How palliative care-type thinking can help us live better  What happens to hope when facing end of life This is a masterclass in walking right up to the edge with people, in the most gentle, compassionate way.  If you liked this episode, you’ll also love:  Sunita Puri on living in uncertainty Rev. Tom Long on the importance of the rituals for death and dying   Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts. Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler. This episode originally aired October 2024.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Does life ever feel like an endless to-do list? Like if you could just wake up tomorrow with a little more discipline, you’d finally master your schedule, achieve balance, and feel…enough?  On today's episode, Oliver Burkeman (bestselling author of Four Thousand Weeks: Time Management for Mortals) and Kate unravel some of the beautiful lies we cling to about time and control, the fantasy of hyper-efficiency, and what it might look like to embrace the limits that make us who we are.  In this conversation, Kate and Oliver discuss:  Some of the most common self-help myths that stand in our way Why the relentless pursuit of self-improvement often leaves us feeling empty, anxious, and overwhelmed.  How embracing our limits can lead to more contentment This is a conversation about limits—not as something to overcome, but as a doorway to something richer, deeper, and (dare I say) more human. If you liked this episode, you’ll also love:  Katie Couric on The Courage to Try (and Wisdom to Know When to Let Go) Susan David on Toxic Positivity Samantha Irby on Doing My Best (Life Now) Elizabeth Gilbert on Why Your Creativity Matters Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here. Subscribe to Kate’s Substack for blessings, essays, and reflections that hold what’s hard and beautiful.  This episode originally aired December 2024.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What happens when joy shows up anyway? In their third annual Happy Crappies, Kate and her dear friend Kelly Corrigan dare to name what went right in 2025 — personally, professionally, and globally — without apology or superstition. From deeply human moments that no machine could replicate, to long-overdue reckonings that reframe decades of pain, they trace the quiet ways meaning emerges when people really see one another. Along the way, they explore what joy actually is (and isn’t), why it so often arrives as a surprise, and how naming the cost of love might be one of the most hopeful acts we have.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What happens when the things you tried to fix turn out to be forever? In their third annual Happy Crappy, Kate and her dear friend Kelly Corrigan wade into the personal, professional, and global losses of 2025. From chronic pain that refuses to budge, to families that shrink and institutions under siege, they name the hard things with tenderness, wit, and just the right amount of downer. Along the way, they ask what it means to live with limits—and whether acceptance might be its own kind of hope.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

By this point in December, love has been merchandised within an inch of its life. It jingles in ads that say if you really love someone, you should buy them a luxury car with a bow the size of a house. But Advent tells another story. God did not arrive in a grand gesture—no skywriting, no fireworks, no leather interior with heated seats. Love slipped into a Bethlehem stable, swaddled in rags.  This is not the love we usually want. We’d prefer it to be shiny and obvious. Instead, God gives us the kind of love that chooses vulnerability. A baby who cannot even hold up his huge noggin. A terrified teenage mom. And a dad who's trying to believe this is not all a terrible mistake. And yet—this is the love that remakes the whole world. Not quick or efficient, but slow and human. Love that needs to be changed and snuggled. Love that grows up to sit with outcasts and weep at gravesides and promise that nothing—not even death—can separate us from God. So here we are, a few days from Christmas, and maybe the invitation is to look for love in small ways. In a text that says, “Made it home safe.” In a neighbor shoveling your walkway. Love in the God who came close, unnoticed but never unneeded. Subscribe to Kate’s Substack for blessings, essays, and reflections that hold what’s hard and beautiful. Join us for Advent over there, too!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The TODAY Show’s Jenna Bush Hager sits down for a wide-ranging conversation with Kate Bowler. Together, they share about the importance of family and intergenerational relationships (Jenna shares such tender stories about her grandparents), how they hope to let their kids make mistakes and be met with grace, and how they both (try to) find beauty in ordinary, regular days and regular problems.  In this conversation, Kate and Jenna discuss: How to model openness and empathy across difference (even when people really, really disagree) Why they want to raise their kids to be curious and independent How the love of others makes us brave—brave enough to make mistakes (and why that’s okay) Kate visited Jenna in New York City for this conversation. And Jenna is just as lovely and generous of spirit as you’d imagine. CW: fertility issues; Alzheimer’s  Subscribe to Kate’s Substack for blessings, essays, and reflections that hold what’s hard and beautiful. Join us for Advent over there, too! This episode originally aired September 2023.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Every grocery store speaker is now officially blasting “It’s the Most Wonderful Time of the Year.” And let’s be honest: sometimes it feels like a demand. The happiest Christmas music can feel like salt in the wound when life is heavy. If this season is not “merry and bright” for you, you’re not alone. That’s why many churches will hold “Blue Christmas” services next week. It’s an American tradition that says out loud what so many feel quietly: the holidays can hurt. These services dim the lights, play gentler music, light blue candles, and make space for grief. They remind us that the story of Christmas itself is no stranger to darkness—Jesus was born into a world of oppression and fear. Joy didn’t arrive because the world was perfect; it arrived anyway. I thought perhaps now, only halfway through the Advent season, it might be a good time to take a peek at the customs and traditions and plans that you’ve got on the calendar and see if you need to make any room for grief. Maybe the invitation of Advent is not to blast the cheeriest carol until we believe it, but to prepare room for joy by telling the truth. By letting sorrow breathe. By choosing practices that gently turn our hearts back toward joy without pretending the sadness is gone. What might that look like for you? A quiet walk near some city Christmas lights. A playlist that mixes Bing Crosby with a hymn that actually makes you cry. A phone call to the person who understands the empty chair at your table. Joy doesn’t demand we silence our grief. It asks us to make just enough room for God to slip in beside it. And sometimes, that tiny crack of space is all joy needs to return. Subscribe to Kate’s Substack for blessings, essays, and reflections that hold what’s hard and beautiful. Join us for Advent over there, too!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Life is painful. Period. But are there some aspects of our faith or our posture toward the world that can change how we experience it?  Father Richard Rohr is everyone’s favorite preacher of love. Love for each other. Love from God.  In this conversation, Kate and Richard talk about: How great love and great suffering can move us into a new stage of life  The spirituality of subtraction Making room for mystery of joy and suffering His secret to staying present to God Together, might we all learn when to hold on and when to let go. Subscribe to Kate’s Substack for blessings, essays, and reflections that hold what’s hard and beautiful. Join us for Advent over there, too! This episode originally aired November 2021.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We’ve all seen the Christmas pageants where Mary is very sweet and demure and she is wearing a tablecloth pulled from the church dining hall. Sometimes it’s hard to remember how much impossible courage Mary had from the beginning. She finds out that she is pregnant in a completely scandalous way. But what does this divinely-prepared, teenage girl do when an angel crashes into her life with an announcement guaranteed to upend all her best plans? She sings. But not a sweet lullaby. Mary belts out a protest song: “He has brought down the mighty from their thronesand lifted up the humble.He has filled the hungry with good things,and sent the rich away empty” (Luke 1:52–53). This is not the peace of spa music and chamomile tea. It’s the kind of peace that rearranges the furniture of the universe. That scatters the arrogant and topples the unjust. God’s peace doesn’t politely avoid conflict; it writes the soundtrack for a revolution. And somehow, Mary holds all of this—terror, disruption, and hope—in her own body. She sings peace into a world that did not ask for it, but desperately needs it. And here we are, centuries later, humming along too. Subscribe to Kate’s Substack for blessings, essays, and reflections that hold what’s hard and beautiful. Join us for Advent over there, too!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The pandemic introduced many to living with uncertainty. But for some, uncertainty has always been their norm. Actress Nikki Deloach has starred in several Hallmark Christmas movies, but her life hasn’t matched the happily-ever-after plot-lines of her characters. Nikki’s dad was diagnosed with an aggressive form of dementia and her son was diagnosed with congenital heart defects in utero… all in the same week. In this conversation, Kate and Nikki discuss how to live with constant uncertainty, how to stay open to both the terror and the beauty of living close to the edge, and how to make Christmas meaningful when hope is hard to come by.  Subscribe to Kate’s Substack for blessings, essays, and reflections that hold what’s hard and beautiful. Join us for Advent over there, too! This episode originally aired December 2020. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Well, here we are. December has arrived (shudder). And with it, the great cultural sprint: decorations, office parties, and the annual anxiety dream about whether you will accidentally forget someone on your gift list (spoiler: you will). Some of you already finished your shopping over Thanksgiving and have a freezer full of perfectly labeled Christmas cookies. (Who are you?! Come to my house and fix my life!) The rest of us are still trying to remember where we put last year’s wrapping paper. It’s easy, this time of year, to let December carry us away. The shopping carts, the streaming playlists, the endless events. Advent, though, asks us to live by a different rhythm. The early church saw this season as one of watching and waiting—not just for Christmas morning, but for the whole story of God’s redemption. They began the year not by rushing, but by slowing down. The prophet Isaiah describes this posture well: “In returning and rest you shall be saved; in quietness and in trust shall be your strength” (Isaiah 30:15). The church fathers loved this verse because it sounded like Advent: strength found not in frantic activity, but in patient trust. So maybe the invitation this December is not to do more, but to intend more. To decide, amid the cookie dough and to-do lists, that this month won’t only be measured in packages mailed or tables set, but in moments of return. Little pauses of prayer. A fat candle lit on the dining room table that makes you take a breath. A quiet reminder that God is coming, and we don’t have to hold the season—or our lives—together by ourselves. So welcome to December, friends. Whether you’re ahead of the game or already behind, you are exactly where you need to be: at the beginning. Subscribe to Kate’s Substack for blessings, essays, and reflections that hold what’s hard and beautiful. Join us for Advent over there, too!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this conversation, Kate and Anna discuss: How conversations might engender the intimacy we need to get by Fostering the right interpersonal and listening skills it takes to approach a difficult topic (especially when you’re feeling nervous) Best practices for responding to someone’s hard news How learning to listen might bridge differences of all kinds What do we lose when we don’t talk about hard things? And what might we gain if we do? Subscribe to Kate’s Substack for blessings, essays, and reflections that hold what’s hard and beautiful. Join us for Advent over on Substack! This episode originally aired April 2022.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What happens when childhood teaches you more about survival than safety? Poet and author Nikki Grimes joins Kate to talk about growing up with profound instability—and still choosing to see beauty, feel joy, and offer forgiveness. In this moving conversation, they explore memory, trauma, faith, and the small pockets of belonging that shape a life. SHOW NOTES: Books by Nikki Grimes: Ordinary Hazards – A memoir in verse chronicling Nikki’s traumatic childhood; Glory in the Margins – A collection of Sunday poems exploring faith and resilience; A Cup of Quiet – A children’s book about the sweet bond between a grandmother and granddaughter; The Road to Paris – A semi-autobiographical novel inspired by Nikki’s experience in foster care. Poems read in this episode: Holy Architecture – from Glory in the Margins, Habitation – from Glory in the Margins Support guides: When You’ve Been Hurt as a Child, When Your Family is Complicated Subscribe to Kate’s Substack for blessings, essays, and reflections that hold what’s hard and beautiful. Join us for Advent over on Substack! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Tim Shriver—educator, author, and longtime Chairman of Special Olympics—joins Kate for a tender, funny, deeply practical conversation about dignity: what changes when we decide everyone matters, how relationships (not information) do the real work, and why service is more than “being nice.” Together they trace a family story from Rosemary Kennedy to Eunice Kennedy Shriver to millions of athletes, swap hospital-and-gymnasium epiphanies, and offer a simple lens for disagreeing better. It’s an invitation to the “really real,” where joy and sorrow live together and love makes people—and communities—more fully alive. SHOW NOTES: Special Olympics — The global movement founded by Eunice Kennedy Shriver and now led by Tim. Dignity Index — A practical tool for scoring how we speak across difference, helping us learn to disagree without contempt. Unite — A bridge-building initiative founded by Tim Shriver to foster common ground and shared dignity. CASEL — The pioneering framework for social and emotional learning Tim helped develop. Fully Alive: Discovering What Matters Most — Tim’s memoir on faith, family, and the pursuit of a life that really matters. Subscribe to Kate’s Substack for blessings, essays, and reflections that hold what’s hard and beautiful. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.