The Unburdened Leader

Most of us know about the “fight, flight, freeze” responses to trauma. But there is another concept that has been steadily gaining awareness over the last several years, in large part due to pop psychology on social media: Fawning.You might have heard it described as akin to extreme people-pleasing, over-accommodating, over-functioning, and fundamentally a problem in the person doing the fawning. But as my guest today illuminates for us, it’s not a personal failing, or even always a conscious choice. It is human nature to prioritize safety and connection, and fawning is a means of keeping ourselves safe. But when fawning runs the show, self-leadership diminishes and quietly drifts toward conflict-avoiding, blurred boundaries, and self-abandonment.Waking up to your fawning response takes courage. You will meet resistance from some as you shift the dynamics of your relationships. But it also unlocks deeper intimacy, more honest connection, and the joy that comes from trusting yourself and letting others meet the real you.This conversation invites you to consider where and with whom you fawn, and how you might want to respond in the future. Fawning has a real purpose when safety is on the line, but the more we are aware of it, the more we can be intentional about how we show up in our relationships.Ingrid Clayton is a licensed clinical psychologist with a master’s degree in transpersonal psychology and a Ph.D. in clinical psychology. In her private practice in Los Angeles she supports individuals in healing trauma, reclaiming agency, and reconnecting to their authentic selves.She is a regular contributor to Psychology Today, and her work has been featured in Oprah Daily, The New York Times, Women’s Health, Forbes, 10% Happier with Dan Harris, Girls Gotta Eat, and NPR’s On Point with Meghna Chakrabarti. Ingrid’s latest book, Fawning: Why the Need to Please Makes Us Lose Ourselves and How to Find Our Way Back, explores the often-overlooked fawn response to trauma.Listen to the full episode to hear:Why fawning shows up as an unconscious response to ongoing relational traumaHow understanding fawning helped Ingrid understand and heal from her own complex traumaHow our culture demands and reinforces fawning for women and marginalized peopleThe often very real bind of choosing safety over self and the feedback loop it createsAccessible practices to build a sense of internal safety and self-trustHow chronic fawning and self-abandonment contribute to burnoutLearn more about Ingrid Clayton, PhD:WebsiteInstagram: @ingridclaytonphdFacebook: @ingridclaytonphdYouTube: @ingridclaytonphdUnfawning on SubstackFawning: Why the Need to Please Makes Us Lose Ourselves–and How to Find Our Way BackBelieving Me: Healing from Narcissistic Abuse and Complex TraumaLearn more about Rebecca:rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaThe Unburdened Leader on SubstackSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:What Is the Fawning Trauma Response? | Psychology TodayPeter LevineThe Greatest Showman Cast - This Is MeThe Traitors

There is a well-known cognitive phenomenon that we are all susceptible to, and even more so when we’re stressed. And we’re all at least a little stressed and overwhelmed right now.The illusory truth effect catches us when we repeatedly hear statements and begin to assume they are true through repetition and familiarity. Things feel true, even if they couldn’t be further from it. Research has shown that sheer repetition can even override facts when we know better.Naming–systems, feelings, what we’re witnessing, what’s missing, what’s wrong–is a powerful antidote to the illusory truth effect. Naming forces us to slow down. It interrupts the repetition. We can’t meaningfully talk about integrity, values, courage, or innovation if we refuse to look directly at what is.My guest today reminds us that we can’t disrupt what we can’t name. And we can’t heal what stays vague.Soraya Chemaly is an award-winning author and activist. As a cultural critic, she writes and speaks frequently about gender norms, social justice, free speech, sexualized violence, politics, and technology. The former Executive Director of The Representation Project and Director and co-founder of the Women’s Media Center Speech Project, she has long been committed to expanding women’s civic and political participation.Her most recent book, All We Want is Everything: How We Dismantle Male Supremacy, has been called “a potent rallying cry for a beleaguered feminist movement.”  In it, she challenges dearly held beliefs about gender and equality today, drawing clear lines between the dynamics of intimate inequality and global anti-feminist, anti-democratic backlash and machofascism.Content warning: Discussion of details of the video footage leading up to Renee Good’s murder, less-detailed discussion of sexual and gender-based violence and harassmentListen to the full episode to hear:Why we need to name systems clearly and specifically in order to challenge themHow male supremacy encompasses concepts of sexism, misogyny, and patriarchy and frames them as part of a larger hierarchical systemHow we’re witnessing DARVO play out at scale in our government and media, as well as in personal interactionsHow deepfakes use the pervasive threat of sexual violence against women to dehumanize and enforce subjugationHow women play roles in passing on and enforcing male supremacyHow “the boy crisis” reinforces norms of masculinity at the expense of girls and womenWhy big tent politics that asks everyone but cis, straight men to give up fundamental rights cannot be a yardstick of successLearn more about Soraya Chemaly:WebsiteInstagram: @sorayachemalyAll We Want is Everything: How We Dismantle Male SupremacySubscribe to UnmannedLearn more about Rebecca:rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaThe Unburdened Leader on SubstackSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:Dechêne, A., Stahl, C., Hansen, J., & Wänke, M.. The Truth About the Truth: A Meta-Analytic Review of the Truth Effect. Personality and Social Psychology Review, 14(2), 238-257Pennycook, G., Cannon, T. D., & Rand, D. G. (2018). Prior exposure increases perceived accuracy of fake news. Journal of Experimental Psychology: General, 147(12), 1865–1880Thinking, Fast and Slow, Daniel KahnemanFazio, L. K., Brashier, N. M., Payne, B. K., & Marsh, E. J. (2015). Knowledge does not protect against illusory truth. Journal of Experimental Psychology: General, 144(5), 993–1002.EP 96: Rage to Action: The Leading Power of Women’s Anger with Soraya ChemalyEP 117: Rethinking Resilience: Moving from Bouncing Back to Relational Resilience with Soraya ChemalyJennifer Joy Freyd, PhD.What is DARVO ? | Jennifer Joy Freyd, PhD.11. Boy Crisis Asides and the Invisible People and Power Living in Them | UnmannedAfterlives, Abdulrazak GurnahRadiohead - CreepI'd Love to Change the World - Ten Years AfterDon't Let's Go to the Dogs TonightBlondieThe Beginning Comes After the End: Notes on a World of Change, Rebecca Solnit

If it feels like you’ve lived a year inside of a month right now, you’re not alone. The cycle of our times is relentless and demands more of our attention and emotional capacity than we were ever meant to carry.This disorientation makes us more prone to disengagement, burnout, cynicism, and the lure of certainty. We also risk what social psychologists call moral narrowing, where our moral attention and empathy constrict to a smaller set of people or issues—often those we identify with directly—while excluding or devaluing others outside that circle. We can become more rigid, less able to tolerate complexity, and more likely to simplify moral dilemmas into “us versus them.” Even the most caring people are susceptible to moral narrowing when they’re constantly overwhelmed. But we can build skills that help us move through grief, tolerate uncertainty, and stay engaged without losing ourselves.We need to train for these times, not just intellectually, but relationally and somatically. We need to be able to stay in the room long enough to build lasting connections and coalitions.My guest today models what it looks like to think and lead with the long game in mind while also tending to present-day relationships and her own well-being. She reminds us that despair is not a strategy and that steady, relational, local action is how we keep the future from being decided by the loudest and most reckless forces in the room.A’shanti F. Gholar is the President & CEO of Emerge, the nation’s largest network of women elected officials and candidates. A’shanti co-founded Emerge Nevada in 2006, was named Emerge’s national policy director in 2016, and became the first Black woman to lead Emerge in February 2020. Under A’shanti’s leadership, Emerge has experienced unprecedented growth and success. With affiliates in over two dozen states, more than 1,200 alums in office, and over 6,500 Democratic women trained to run for office and win, Emerge has become a force to be reckoned with in the political landscape. She is also the founder of The Brown Girls Guide to Politics and its award-winning podcast, which The Guardian recognized as a “practical guide to progressive activism.” Listen to the full episode to hear:How A’shanti learned early on the power of getting involved at the local levelHow Emerge helps women recognize the value of their skills and lived experiences in holding political positionsHow centering the “why” helps Emerge candidates get elected, fight through the hard days, and get re-elected at high ratesWhy servant leadership is at the core of how Emerge trains candidates to leadHow every day micro engagements in your community add up to make a difference and keep hope alive for the long haulWhy representation, visibility, and mentorship are vital to changing the narrative of who can run for and hold officeLearn more about A’shanti Gholar:EmergeThe Brown Girls Guide to Politics PodcastInstagram: @ashantigholarLearn more about Rebecca:rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaThe Unburdened Leader on SubstackSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:Fired Up: How to Turn Your Spark into a Flame and Come Alive at Any Age, Shannon WattsNot My Type: One Woman vs. a President, E. Jean Carroll Stone Temple Pilots - Interstate Love SongStranger Things

Our nervous systems form the foundation of how we move through the world. It is the filter for our thoughts, behaviors, and interpretations.And when our nervous systems are dysregulated, it impacts how we show up for ourselves, our loved ones, and those we lead.Emotional regulation isn’t as simple as a human equivalent of turning your computer off and on again. But it is an essential practice to learn to notice dysregulation, and develop skills and practices to bring us back when we’ve spiraled or disconnected.As we head into another year of challenges and uncertainty, personally and societally, I’m coming back to my conversation on Polyvagal Theory with Deb Dana from earlier this year, which also happens to be the most downloaded episode of 2025. When the stakes are high, it only makes sense that so many of us are looking for ways to cope. Polyvagal practice offers a compassionate map to ourselves, and helps us build the adaptability, curiosity, compassion, and connection that are most needed in leadership right now.Deb Dana, LCSW, is a clinician, consultant, author, and international lecturer on polyvagal theory-informed work with trauma survivors and is the leading translator of this scientific work to the public and mental health professionals. She's a founding member of the Polyvagal Institute and creator of the signature Rhythm of Regulation® clinical training series.Deb's work shows us how understanding polyvagal theory applies across the board to relationships, mental health, and trauma. She delves into the intricacies of how we can all use and understand the organizing principles of polyvagal theory to change the ways we navigate our daily lives.Listen to the full episode to hear:How regulation practices help us build the capacity to return to ourselves when we’ve been challengedHow subconscious survival responses hijack our ability to problem solve and narrow our optionsHow tiny moments of noticing can add up to big changes in your capacity to find regulationWhy we need skills for coming back to regulation in order to engage with discomfort and struggle in our lives and in the worldHow leaders can create connected, collaborative environments for themselves and those they leadLearn more about Deb Dana:Rhythm of RegulationLearn more about Rebecca:rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaThe Unburdened Leader on SubstackSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:Stephen PorgesThe Nightingale, Kristin HannahBlue: The History of a Color, Michel PastoureauCéline Dion, Andrea Bocelli - The PrayerHalloween Baking ChampionshipHoliday Baking ChampionshipThe Great British Baking Show

How do we stay awake and aware without constantly being outraged? Or, perhaps even worse, normalizing what should be utterly unacceptable?Staying human is hard in this environment. So many leaders are trying to hold onto their boundaries and values against pressure to act contrary to them, to stay compassionate and curious when so many forces benefit from and encourage our outrage.Anger, rage, and outrage are powerful and can be useful emotions. But when we live from a perpetual state of outrage, we lose access to the self-leadership and adaptive skills that help us lead well, and eventually it takes us out.Today’s guest is here to help us understand what outrage really is, why it’s so potent right now, how it becomes weaponized, and how we can use it without losing ourselves.Kurt Gray is a social psychologist who studies our moral minds and how best to bridge political divides. Gray received his PhD from Harvard University, and now directs the Deepest Beliefs Lab at The Ohio State University. He also leads the Center for the Science of Moral Understanding, which explores new ways to reduce polarization, and is a Field Builder in the New Pluralists, which seeks to build a more pluralistic America.Gray’s work on morality, politics, religion, creativity, and AI has been widely discussed in the media, including the New York Times, the Economist, Scientific American, Wired, and Hidden Brain. He is the co-author of the book The Mind Club: Who Thinks, What Feels and Why it Matters, and the author of Outraged: Why We Fight about Morality and Politics. Listen to the full episode to hear:How Kurt’s childhood experiences with his stepmother’s conservative, evangelical family have informed his thinking about how we can connect despite differencesHow our human wiring for threat detection causes “harm creep,” even while many of us are safer than everHow our outrage is connected to our perceptions of our risk and vulnerabilityHow our moral imagination helps us maintain our empathy and humanity without losing sight of our values and boundariesWhy we need to learn to recognize destruction narratives and how they’re being used to sow divisionWhy leading with facts and statistics fails in moral and political arguments and how we can more effectively begin to bridge the gapsWhy we need to leave room for uncertainty and humility in our convictionsLearn more about Kurt Gray, PhD:WebsiteConnect on LinkedInMoral Understanding NewsletterOutraged: Why We Fight About Morality and Politics and How to Find Common GroundThe Mind Club: Who Thinks, What Feels, and Why it MattersLearn more about Rebecca:rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaThe Unburdened Leader on SubstackSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:Atlas of the Heart: Mapping Meaningful Connection and the Language of Human Experience, Brené BrownRage Becomes Her: The Power of Women's Anger, Soraya ChemalyEP 96: Rage to Action: The Leading Power of Women’s Anger with Soraya ChemalyBrené Brown on the State of Leadership in America Today | On with Kara SwisherEP 52: Charlie Gilkey: Leading With What Matters MostDaryl DavisSaja Boys - "Your Idol"Stranger Things Bad ThoughtsOrdinary People Change the World Series, Brad Meltzer and Christopher Eliopoulos

Every day, we’re flooded with information–headlines, opinions, advice, noise. And beneath that deluge of input, we carry stories that tell us how we stay safe and what asking questions will cost us.Certainty too often feels like safety. So we rush to respond before we understand and defend before we discern. We don’t pause to reflect or to question the loudest voices in the room–proverbial or otherwise.But certainty at the expense of discernment can damage our connections to each other and to ourselves. Leadership that builds connection and trust for the long term requires us to cultivate the courage to ask questions and follow the answers, even when it’s uncomfortable. When we catch an old story running the show and stay curious instead of certain, we can metabolize what’s driving reactivity and protection. It’s how we stay open, grounded, and self-led in a world that rewards reactivity.My guest in this conversation refers to this practice as faithful skepticism: asking hard questions without abandoning hope. When I read his moving essay, “Groomed by the Church: How The Clash Saved My Soul,” I knew I had to invite him here to discuss the importance of refining our discernment and cultivating skepticism as a vital tool for effective leadership. And how music serves as a powerful trailhead–both as a cultural lightning rod and as a catalyst for self-discovery. David Adey is a multimedia artist based in San Diego, CA. His work has been exhibited at The Museum of Contemporary Art San Diego, Orange County Museum of Art, Crystal Bridges Museum, Minneapolis Institute of Art, Frist Center for The Visual Arts, Oceanside Museum of Art, Cranbrook Art Museum, and venues nationally and internationally. His work has been featured in publications including Art in America, LA Weekly, The Huffington Post, Wired Magazine, Thisiscolossal, and PBS. He received his MFA in sculpture from Cranbrook Academy of Art. Adey is a professor of art and design at Point Loma Nazarene University.Listen to the full episode to hear:How an outing to see a Black Sabbath cover band inspired David’s essayHow the parallels of the Satanic Panic of his youth and our current cultural moment took the essay from journal entry to published workWhy David believes in the power of being offensive with a purposeHow the church’s narrow focus on spiritual dangers came at a cost to real life safetyHow David’s teenaged experiences inform how he now leads his students and parents his childrenThe impact of his mother’s support when he both wanted to reject his musical loves and then reconnect with themWhy faithful skepticism is a powerful antidote for certainty and cynicismLearn more about David Adey:WebsiteInstagram: @davidadey.studioLearn more about Rebecca:rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaThe Unburdened Leader on SubstackSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:Groomed By the Church: How The Clash Saved My Soul | The RumpusSatanic panicJeff KoonsThe Anxious Generation: How the Great Rewiring of Childhood Is Causing an Epidemic of Mental Illness, Jonathan HaidtNorth Country, Gillian Welch and David RawlingsLootStar WarsRichard RohrThich Nhat Hanh

Leaders carry the weight of more than their current roles.We receive messages from the generations before us about our worth, work, and belonging that shape how we show up–for better or worse. This is just as true in our working lives as it is in our families.If we want to change the narratives, we have to become aware of the legacy burdens–personal, familial, cultural, systemic–that have been passed down to us and choose to transform those burdens into opportunities for healing, growth, and leadership that alters the course of our teams and organizations for the better.When we can name what we’ve absorbed–what doesn’t belong to our personal story but to those who came before us–we create space for healing and release. And from that place, we can hold onto our hope, lead with integrity, and stay grounded in what truly matters.My guest today is a dear colleague and friend who is here to talk with me about the impact of generational messaging on our leadership, and how we can begin to dismantle these narratives for ourselves and in our organizations.Crystal R. Jones is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker and Lead IFS-I Trainer who passionately spreads the healing essence of the IFS model worldwide. Known for her embodied compassion, relatability, and heart-led approach to her work, Crystal has personally experienced the transformative power of the IFS model in her own healing journey. This profound experience fuels Crystal’s dedication to creating safe spaces for marginalized communities, particularly Black women and women of color, to feel connected, seen, heard, and valued as they embark on their healing journeys individually and collectively. Crystal is fervently committed to teaching the model in a way that illuminates and speaks to BIPOC communities, ensuring its adaptability, accessibility, and relevance to diverse populations.Listen to the full episode to hear:How legacy burdens are passed through families and cultures as messages of survivalHow Crystal reckons with cultural burdens by choosing to show up imperfectly and with vulnerabilitySelf-reflection questions to help you identify and consider legacy burdensHow belonging and shame show up when working with legacy burdensHow Crystal is shifting workplace narratives for her teams and in her trainingsLearn more about Crystal Jones:Life Source Counseling CenterLearn more about Rebecca:rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaThe Unburdened Leader on SubstackSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:EP 139: Bad Bosses Aren’t Born, They’re Made: Breaking Toxic Leadership Cycles with Mita MallickEP 102: Toxic Leadership: The True Cost of Workplace Trauma with Mita MallickBlack Liturgies: Prayers, Poems, and Meditations for Staying Human, Cole Arthur Riley Alex IsleyOrange Is the New Black

What does it mean to be good?It’s a little word that carries a lot of weight for many of us. Be a good girl. Be a good friend. Be a good leader. Do good.Good can sound like praise, but become a cage of expectations and shoulds, a performance that chips away at our authenticity. Good is no longer something we are, but is how others see us. It leads us to people please and keep the peace at all costs. And that’s especially true for women.All too often, when women are in leadership, their goodness is measured by how they make others feel–good, comfortable, understood. All of that matters. But when the measure of leadership becomes how comfortable other people feel around us, we lose something essential.We perform and manage emotions instead of building trust and respect. We seek to be liked and to fit in at the cost of real integrity and effectiveness. And likability is oh-so fleeting.Respect, integrity, and true belonging take time and discomfort to build, but they last.My guest today has written beautifully and bravely about the cost of being good, the truth of belonging, and the courage it takes to lead ourselves and others through discomfort.Elise Loehnen is the New York Times bestselling author of On Our Best Behavior: The Seven Deadly Sins and the Price Women Pay to be Good and the host of the podcast, Pulling the Thread, where she interviews cultural luminaries about the big questions of today, including people like Joy Harjo, John and Julie Gottman, Dr. Gabor Maté, and Esther Perel. In addition to On Our Best Behavior, she is the author of a corresponding workbook—Choosing Wholeness Over Goodness—with coach Courtney Smith (July 2025), and the co-author of True & False Magic, with legendary psychiatrist Phil Stutz. Elise lives in Los Angeles with her husband, Rob, and their sons, Max and Sam.Listen to the full episode to hear:How Elise traced the cultural roots of the “good woman” back to early Christianity and the many additions, erasures, and mistranslations of Biblical storiesWhy we need to pay attention to our envy and how it shows up in relation to other womenHow envy, pride, and greed fuel each other and the ways we stay small and tear other women downHow social media has heightened the risk of reputational damage and changed how women work and lead, for better and worseWhy we latch onto ideas of goodness and purity more deeply in times of greater uncertaintyHow current narratives about the “natural” order are ahistorical manipulations that limit what we believe is possibleLearn more about Elise Loehnen:WebsitePulling the Thread on SubstackInstagram: @eliseloehnenOn Our Best Behavior: The Price Women Pay to Be GoodChoosing Wholeness Over Goodness: A Process for Reclaiming Your Full SelfTrue and False Magic: A Tools WorkbookLearn more about Rebecca:rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaThe Unburdened Leader on SubstackSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:Braving the Wilderness: The Quest for True Belonging and the Courage to Stand Alone, Brené BrownEP 123: Befriending Your Nervous System: Building Capacity for Regulation with Deb DanaThe Intrinsic Order that Emerges from Within Chaos (Elinor Dickson, PhD)Dancing in the Flames: The Dark Goddess in the Transformation of Consciousness, Elinor Dickson and Marion Woodman EP 88: Right-Use-of-Power: Navigating Leadership Dynamics with Dr. Cedar BarstowEP 125: Power, Regulation, and Leadership: Connecting to Your Personal Power with Dr. Amanda AguileraThe Reprioritization of Relationship (Lori Gottlieb)Maybe You Should Talk To Someone: A Therapist, HER Therapist, and Our Lives Revealed, Lori GottliebLessons from Hollywood’s Most Powerful Woman—And How They Can Help You (with Donna Langley) | Aspire with Emma GredeAnswer to Job, Carl JungAion: Researches Into the Phenomenology of the Self, Carl JungThe Science of Magic: How the Mind Weaves the Fabric of Reality, Dean Radin PhDMistakes Were Made (but Not By Me): Why We Justify Foolish Beliefs, Bad Decisions, and Hurtful Acts, Carol Tavris and Elliot AronsonSigur Rós - YouTubeJónsi - YouTubeLove IslandThe Gilded AgeMaidenStutz

We live in an age where truth twists into confusion, opinion drowns out data, and it’s increasingly difficult to figure out whose expertise we can trust.Where did our mistrust in expertise come from? Its roots stretch back to deliberate misinformation campaigns beginning in the 1950s spread by the likes of Big Tobacco, Big Oil, and conservative church movements. Then social media poured gasoline on the fire, accelerating the spread of misinformation and making sowing division highly profitable.Misinformation campaigns take advantage of our brains’ natural tendency to protect the familiar and mistrust outgroups. And they capitalize on the very real betrayals people have experienced at the hands of corporations, governments, schools, and healthcare systems.Our challenge now isn’t just knowing the facts, it’s interrogating our own beliefs, asking where our evidence comes from, and resisting the pull of certainty. As leaders, we need to discern who we give our attention to, practice critical thinking, resist manufactured controversy, and platform voices committed to both truth and connection.Today’s guest is a neuroscientist and author of Why Brains Need Friends, who works to make science accessible, relational, and rooted in respect. He doesn’t focus on winning arguments or shaming people into submission. He focuses on bridging divides, building trust, and reminding us that our brains–and our lives–are wired for connection.Ben Rein, PhD is an award-winning neuroscientist and science communicator. He serves as the Chief Science Officer of the Mind Science Foundation, an Adjunct Lecturer at Stanford University, and a Clinical Assistant Professor at SUNY Buffalo. He has published over 20 peer-reviewed papers on the neuroscience of social behavior, and is the author of Why Brains Need Friends: The Neuroscience of Social Connection. In addition, Rein educates an audience of more than 1 million social media followers and has been featured on outlets including Entertainment Tonight, Good Morning America and StarTalk with Neil DeGrasse Tyson. He has received awards for his science communication from the National Academies of Science, Engineering, and Medicine, the Society for Neuroscience, and elsewhere.Listen to the full episode to hear:How an especially vivid nightmare redirected Ben’s path to neuroscienceWhy the division and isolation of modern life is so bad for our brains and overall healthHow engaging with strangers isn’t as awkward as we often think it is, and why we should do it moreHow small social interactions build our sense of belonging, community, and wellbeingWhy we need to recognize and then override our gut reactions to those we perceive as belonging to outgroupsHow social media sound bites vastly oversimplify the complex and unknown systems in our brainsWhy Ben’s primary mission to to help people understand the value of looking to data and evidence rather than personalities and experiencesWhy we all have to get better at fact-checking and questioning why we’re ready to believe somethingLearn more about Dr. Ben Rein:WebsiteInstagram: @dr.benreinWhy Brains Need Friends: The Neuroscience of Social ConnectionLearn more about Rebecca:rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaThe Unburdened Leader on SubstackSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:Golden Holocaust: Origins of the Cigarette Catastrophe and the Case for Abolition, Robert N Proctor"Assessing ExxonMobil’s climate change communications (1977–2014),” Geoffrey Supran and Naomi Oreskes, 2017 Environmental Research Letters 12 084019The Creationists: From Scientific Creationism to Intelligent Design, Ronald L. Numbers"Misinformation and Its Correction Continued Influence and Successful Debiasing,” Stephan Lewandowsky et al., 2012 Psychological Science in the Public Interest, 13(3)The Logic of Scientific Discovery, Karl PopperSciSpaceSapiens: A Brief History of Humankind, Yuval Noah HarariDune, Frank HerbertThe Poisoner's Handbook: Murder and the Birth of Forensic Medicine in Jazz Age New York, Deborah BlumTory Lanez - Gangland x Fargentina 4EVR (feat. Wolfgang Peterson & Kai)Hard Knocks: Training CampCourage the Cowardly Dog

Have you ever thought of being an amateur as a good thing?Many of us learned from an early age that our worth was tied to excelling at what we do and turning it into something productive. And many leaders carry the belief that they must be certain, skilled, and polished at all times.But what if the exact opposite were true?When we allow ourselves to dabble, to be amateurs, to be just okay at things, our brains literally become more adaptable and our nervous systems learn to stay grounded in the midst of risk, uncertainty, and vulnerability. Just as importantly, leaders who model dabbling create spaces where families, teams, and communities are safe to embrace curiosity and exploration. Resilient leadership requires us to meet high-stakes challenges with adaptability, grounded presence, and compassion. Intentional amateurship prepares us for life’s curveballs by building those skills in low-stakes settings.Today’s guest returns to make the case for being a dabbler as a practice of freedom, resilience, and leadership. She shows us how choosing to play, experiment, and simply try expands our capacity for presence and courage.Karen Walrond is an award-winning author, speaker, and leadership coach on a mission to create a kindness revolution. Her books encourage readers to identify their values and inner light and use them to make the world brighter for others.  Audiences around the world have left her keynotes inspired with hope and a renewed determination to serve.  And her one-on-one leadership coaching sessions, workshops and retreats, rooted in the tenets of positive psychology coaching, have helped hundreds of clients unearth their gifts and past triumphs to lead with confidence, compassion and kindness.Karen and her family split their time between Houston, Texas, USA and Bath, Somerset, UK.Listen to the full episode to hear:The restorative power of doing something purely for the love of itHow following her curiosity has shaped Karen’s career and how she protects her amateur pursuitsHow Karen’s dabbling adventures tapped into her seven attributes of intentional amateurismHow intentional amateurship helps embed self-care, self-compassion, and self-transcendence into our livesHow practicing being an amateur helps us bring curiosity, compassion, and resilience to our leadershipWhy the humbling experiences of dabbling are a vital reminder for leaders that they’re in it alongside their teamsLearn more about Karen Walrond:WebsiteInstagram: @heychookooloonksFacebook: @chookooloonksConnect on LinkedInThe Make Light Journal on SubstackIn Defense of Dabbling: The Brilliance of Being a Total AmateurRadiant Rebellion: Reclaim Aging, Practice Joy, and Raise a Little HellThe Lightmaker's Manifesto: How to Work for Change Without Losing Your JoyThe Beauty of Different: Observations of a Confident MisfitLearn more about Rebecca:rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaThe Unburdened Leader on SubstackSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:Cherished Belonging: The Healing Power of Love in Divided Times, Gregory BoyleTattoos on the Heart: The Power of Boundless Compassion, Gregory BoyleGeorge Michael, Mary J. Blige - AsConclaveHomeboy Industries

We’ve all had bad bosses.We might have even been one. At the very least, we’ve probably let people down who counted on us.We all carry burdens from our past that show up in how we lead. And we’re all confronting systems that foster toxic workplace cultures where overwork and blurred boundaries are the norm, spaces that don’t feel safe or generative, and where there is little to no accountability.The question we face is simple, but urgent: How do we want to lead?Our leadership can reinforce toxic systems and norms. Or we can learn to recognize our own burdens and do the work to become more aware, adaptable, and flexible. We can create spaces where people feel seen, heard, and valued, even when systems feel unstable or unfair.Because leading is about deciding, in every moment, whether we respond from our burdens or from our values. And my guest today helps us reflect on those choices and decide how we want to lead through her own lived experiences with bad bosses. Mita Mallick is a Wall Street Journal and USA Today bestselling author who is on a mission to fix what’s broken in our workplaces. She’s a corporate change maker with a track record of transforming businesses and has had an extensive career as a marketing and human resources executive. Mallick is a highly sought-after speaker who has advised Fortune 500 companies and start-ups alike. She is a LinkedIn Top Voice and was named to the Thinkers 50 Radar List. She’s a contributor to Harvard Business Review, Fast Company, Adweek, and Entrepreneur. Mallick has been featured in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, Time Magazine, Forbes, Axios, Essence, Cosmopolitan Magazine and Business Insider.Listen to the full episode to hear:Three scenarios where leaders commonly shift into being bad bossesKey reasons why we tolerate bad bosses and what we can do to shift the cultureWhy Mita’s 13 archetypal bad bosses persist in our workplacesWhy leaders have to invest time and connection in their team members if they want to retain themWhy another executive coaching program will not fix a truly bad bossThe number one skill leaders can focus on to become a better bossWhy corporate America needs more humility and vulnerabilityLearn more about Mita Mallick:WebsiteConnect on LinkedInReimagine Inclusion: Debunking 13 Myths to Transform Your WorkplaceThe Devil Emails at Midnight: What Good Leaders Can Learn from Bad BossesLearn more about Rebecca:rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaThe Unburdened Leader on SubstackSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:EP 102: Toxic Leadership: The True Cost of Workplace Trauma with Mita MallickGive and Take: A Revolutionary Approach to Success, Adam GrantThe Fearless Organization: Creating Psychological Safety in the Workplace for Learning, Innovation, and Growth, Amy C EdmondsonThe Normalization Of Corruption In Organizations, Blake E. Ashforth and Vikas AnandManaging to be ethical: Debunking five business ethics myths, Linda Klebe Treviño and Michael E. BrownExamining the Link Between Ethical Leadership and Employee Misconduct: The Mediating Role of Ethical Climate, David M. Mayer, Maribeth Kuenzi, Rebecca L. GreenbaumThe Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma, Bessel van der Kolk M.D.The Pocket Guide to the Polyvagal Theory: The Transformative Power of Feeling Safe, Stephen W. PorgesPrimal Leadership: Unleashing the Power of Emotional Intelligence, Prof Daniel Goleman PH D, Richard E Boyatzis, and Annie McKeePsychological Conditions of Personal Engagement and Disengagement at Work, William A. KahnEmotional Intelligence: Theory, Findings, and Implications, John D. Mayer, Peter Salovey, David R. CarusoWorking with Emotional Intelligence, Daniel GolemanThe 5Ds of Bystander Intervention - Right To BeEP 52: Charlie Gilkey: Leading With What Matters MostEP 85: Team Habits: Redefining Workplace Dynamics with Charlie GilkeyBig Magic: Creative Living Beyond Fear, Elizabeth GilbertThe Anxious Achiever: Turn Your Biggest Fears Into Your Leadership Superpower, Morra Aarons-MeleSia - UnstoppableThe SopranosBreaking BadFresh Off the BoatThe Fresh Prince of Bel Air

How we care for ourselves is inextricably connected to how we lead.In a culture where we moralize health and sell wellness as a symbol of worth, where we’re obsessed with productivity and optimization, our relationships with food and our bodies go beyond personal struggles.They shape how we lead, how we show up for others, and how we define success. When leaders model extreme routines, restrictive regimens, or performance-based wellness, they may unintentionally perpetuate shame and comparison–even if they intend to inspire or be helpful.This isn’t a dismissal of health. Caring for our bodies, feeding ourselves well, and seeking movement that feels good and helps our bodies be strong are powerful acts of self-respect. But when an obsession with performance and purity–whether through hustle culture or “clean” living–erodes our self-trust and amplifies our inner critics, it becomes a leadership issue.Today’s guest is an eating disorder specialist who understands how shame, perfectionism, and chronic striving get tangled up in how we feed and care for ourselves, and how we show up in the world. Unburdening our relationship with food and body isn’t just about health; it’s a powerful leadership move.As a clinical psychologist, Dr. Jeanne Catanzaro has specialized in treating eating issues and trauma for close to 30 years. She trained in psychodynamic psychotherapy, Somatic Experiencing and Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) before discovering the Internal Family Systems (IFS) model. Dr. Catanzaro served as the director of a day treatment program for eating disorders for two years and is currently the Vice President of the Internal Family Systems Institute. She is the author of the book, Unburdened Eating: Healing Your Relationships with Food and Your Body Using an Internal Family Systems Approach.Listen to the full episode to hear:Why unburdening our relationship with food and body is a continual process, not a three-step planHow to approach your motivations for how you eat and exercise with curiosity and compassionHow diet culture isn’t just about weight, but reflects wider cultural and systemic beliefs about bodies, health, beauty, and worthHow value judgments about how we and others eat protect us from vulnerability and reinforce hierarchiesWhy it’s impossible to fixate on your own body without your self-judgment rubbing off onto othersCommon wellness traps that can feed our inner managers and protectors at the expense of our core self-knowledgeLearn more about Dr. Jeanne Catanzaro:WebsiteUnburdened Eating: Healing Your Relationships with Food and Your Body Using an Internal Family Systems ApproachLearn more about Rebecca:rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaThe Unburdened Leader on SubstackSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:Health Food Junkies Orthorexia Nervosa: Overcoming the Obsession with Healthful Eating, Steven Bratman, David KnightHealth At Every Size: The Surprising Truth About Your Weight, Lindo BaconHealth at Every Size® (HAES®) Principles – ASDAHSelf-Compassion: The Proven Power of Being Kind to Yourself, Dr. Kristin NeffJessica WilsonSonya Renee TaylorSabrina StringsDa'Shaun HarrisonJessica KnurickEvelyn TriboleWhy Can’t Americans Sleep? - Jennifer Senior, The AtlanticOriginal Sin: President Biden's Decline, Its Cover-Up, and His Disastrous Choice to Run Again, Jake Tapper, Alex ThompsonCeleste, Pete KuzmaLincoln's DilemmaThe Great British Baking ShowThe Breakfast ClubThe Buggles - Video Killed The Radio Star

What does it take to lead when your story becomes the story, and the stakes are survival and justice?When you’ve experienced relational trauma or institutional betrayal, as Judith Herman wrote in Trauma and Recovery, “The ordinary response to atrocities is to banish them from consciousness.” But silence protects systems, not survivors.When we do speak up, at best we’re often told to move on, and at worst we might face violent pushback. The stress and fear from the blowback can all too easily silence us and chip away at our integrity and adaptability if we don’t do the important work to address the toll it takes.But when we give ourselves permission to feel the overwhelm, and still take one step forward, we shift from silence into action. Sometimes that step is public and loud. Sometimes it's private and steady. All of it counts. There is no one right way to advocate for change.My guest today did more than just share her story; she used it to create meaningful change in her home state of Texas. In this conversation, we discuss what it means to bear the weight of your trauma while advocating for others, the emotional toll of being a public face for change, and what it looks like to keep showing up, even when the system makes it difficult.Summer Willis is an endurance athlete, advocate, and mother of two who ran 29 marathons in a year to raise awareness for sexual assault survivors. She is the namesake of the Summer Willis Act, landmark consent legislation passed in Texas. Through storytelling, extreme challenges, and her nonprofit Strength Through Strides, she empowers others to turn pain into purpose.Content note: discussion of sexual assaultListen to the full episode to hear:The legal loophole in Texas law that ignited Summer’s drive to turn her worst experience into tangible change for millions of survivorsHow sharing her story and raising awareness and support for the law connected Summer to a wide community of survivors and allies when she was feeling isolatedWhy she decided to run 29 marathons before her 30th birthday while sharing her story, and how that challenge evolved into legislative advocacyHow being an endurance athlete helped Summer through legislative challenges and setbacks to get the Summer Willis Act passedHow Summer is bringing in lightness to her life after sharing her story over and over while trying to pass the billWhy taking the first step and learning along the way are crucial to shaping changeLearn more about Summer Willis:WebsiteStrength Through StridesInstagram: @likesummerwillisLearn more about Rebecca:rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaThe Unburdened Leader on SubstackSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:Trauma and Recovery: The Aftermath of Violence–From Domestic Abuse to Political Terror, Judith Lewis Herman MDDr. Dan SiegelTruth and Repair: How Trauma Survivors Envision Justice, Judith Lewis Herman MDCarol GilliganEP 90: Engaged and Consistent Leadership: with Moms Demand Action Founder, Shannon WattsMoms Demand ActionRAINNNoMore.orgJoyful Heart FoundationHisko HulsingChanel MillerThe Wedding People, Alison EspachTaylor Swift - right where you left mePrime MinisterCobain: Montage of Heck

What do you care about these days? Caring is the currency of leadership, but here’s the paradox: when we care too much about too many things, we can lose sight of the things that truly matter. So the question is: How do you direct your energy toward what you value, without becoming overwhelmed by the sheer volume of things you could care about? The most effective leaders are those who can connect deeply with their teams, foster trust, and create a sense of safety and belonging. They lead with empathy, not just strategy.But perfectionism and overfunctioning can lead us to feel like we need to be everything to everyone, at the expense of our well-being and, ultimately, the quality of our leadership.For many of us, the path to effective leadership begins with finding your enough. When you shift your lens to honoring your enough, you stay connected to your values and to the people and causes that matter most to you, without tipping into exhaustion.My guest today offers a model of what it’s like to care deeply without losing yourself in the process, and of finding joy and community along the way. Ashlee Piper is a sustainability expert, commentator, and speaker whose work has been widely featured on television and in print media. She is the author of Give a Sh*t: Do Good. Live Better. Save the Planet. and No New Things: A Radically Simple 30-Day Guide to Saving Money, the Planet, and Your Sanity.Piper has spoken at the United Nations,  SXSW, and has a popular TED talk. She is the creator of the #NoNewThings Challenge, for which she received a 2022 Silver Stevie Award for Female Innovator of the Year, and is a professor of sustainability marketing. She holds a BA from Brown University and a master’s degree from the University of Oxford. She lives in Chicago in a home that’s 98 percent secondhand and can often be found singing Seal’s “Kiss from a Rose” at any not-so-fine karaoke establishment.Listen to the full episode to hear:How #NoNewThings grew from a personal 30-day goal to attracting thousands of participants and becoming a bookHow taking a break from consumption helped Ashlee refocus on the values and relationships that matter mostHow marketers game our mental and physical states to sell us things, and a simple way to bring awareness to our own consumption patternsWhy #NoNewThings emphasizes intentionality with purchases over strictly not spendingWhy “sustainable” is the new “natural” and tips for making more informed choicesHow recognizing our “enough” makes space for building community, getting involved, and living our valuesLearn more about Ashlee Piper:WebsiteInstagram: @ashleepiperSubstack: The Ethical EditGive a Sh*t: Do Good. Live Better. Save the Planet.No New Things: A Radically Simple 30-Day Guide to Saving Money, the Planet, and Your SanityLearn more about Rebecca:rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaThe Unburdened Leader on SubstackSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:Emotional Intelligence: Why It Can Matter More Than IQ, Daniel GolemanInterpersonal Neurobiology - Dr. Dan SiegelEP 02: How Self-Leadership Saves You From The Relentless Drive To Succeed with Dr. Richard SchwartzEP 72: Identifying and Addressing the Burdens of Individualism with Deran Young & Dick SchwartzEP 131: Leadership, Accountability, and the Self: A Special Anniversary Conversation with IFS Founder Richard SchwartzWhy 'Underconsumption' is a wild term - by Ashlee PiperGrandma Gatewood's Walk: The Inspiring Story of the Woman Who Saved the Appalachian Trail, Ben MontgomeryUsher - Hey Daddy (Daddy's Home)Temptation IslandOut of This WorldSmall Wonder

We persist for what matters most—for the people we lead, and the people we love.But persistence can start to feel like just another weight to carry, another demand that drains us. And people are tired. So many of us are balancing caregiving, leadership, advocacy, a constant firehose of urgent crises, and maybe sneaking in some rest. So sure, persistence sounds good, but how do we keep going without flaming out?We learn how to prune our proverbial gardens.Pruning, whether a tomato plant or an out-of-control to-do list, requires focusing on the present so we can remove what no longer serves, while protecting what still has life in it. It’s persistence in action. It’s what keeps us from burning it all down and walking away or from our commitments taking over our lives.Today’s guest offers us a masterclass in persistence. She started small. When resistance showed up, she didn’t just push through. She revisited her vision. She stayed in relationship with mentors and worked in community. And over time, she has built a global movement for disability, visibility, equity, and justice.On today’s 35th anniversary of the Americans with Disabilities Act, Tiffany Yu shares a reminder that persistence isn’t about doing it all right away or quitting when it’s too much. It’s about staying focused, refining our vision, and staying connected to supportive people and your mission.Tiffany Yu is the CEO and Founder of Diversability, a 3x TEDx speaker, and the author of The Anti-Ableist Manifesto: Smashing Stereotypes, Forging Change, and Building a Disability-Inclusive World. She started her career at Goldman Sachs and was named to the 2025 Forbes Accessibility 100 List. At the age of 9, Tiffany became disabled as a result of a car accident that also took the life of her father.Listen to the full episode to hear:How the seeds of Tiffany’s disability activism were sown during her time at GeorgetownHow Tiffany’s delayed processing of her grief and trauma impacted her ability to connect with disabled joyWhy it matters that all of us get invested in prioritizing accessibility and inclusion for the disability communityWhy accessibility is about more than just utility and needs to address the wholeness of people with disabilitiesWhat leaders can do now to craft more accessible and inclusive spaces and eventsThe importance of community and using your influence to build bridges in the face of setbacksLearn more about Tiffany Yu:WebsiteDiversabilityInstagram: @imtiffanyyuConnect on LinkedInThe Anti-Ableist Manifesto: Smashing Stereotypes, Forging Change, and Building a Disability-Inclusive WorldLearn more about Rebecca:rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaThe Unburdened Leader on SubstackSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:The Persist NetworkEP 134: Focus, Feel, Forward: Redefining Leadership for the Long Haul with Amanda LitmanJanina FisherDr. Dan SiegelStephen Porges, PhDBest Buddies InternationalStigma FightersMade of MillionsFrancis WellerThe Power of Exclusion | Tiffany Yu | TEDxBethesdaJudith Heumann - Defying Obstacles in "Being Heumann" and "Crip Camp" | The Daily ShowWhat My Bones Know, Stephanie FooBenson Boone - Beautiful ThingsSeveranceSchitt's CreekOppenheimerReading RainbowArthurMister Rogers' NeighborhoodShine Theory: Why Powerful Women Make the Greatest FriendsThe Problem with Positivity | Tiffany Yu | TEDxYouth@CaliforniaHighSchool

How do we lead in the face of fear, when the stakes feel sky high and relentlessly personal?The realities of political violence, hostility, and burnout shape how we show up. And they can chip away at your generous heart, opening the path for cynicism and doubt.But if we can focus on what matters most, feel through our emotions–and help others do the same–and orient our gaze forward to the vision of our lives, work, and world that we want, we create an energy that cynicism can’t easily break down, even through setbacks.We need to protect our hope and conviction that change is possible. The future is not a done deal. We have choices about how it unfolds.In this Unburdened Leader conversation, we explore what it takes to lead with clarity, protect our capacity, and still believe that change is possible, even when everything around us tries to tell us otherwise.Amanda Litman is the cofounder and president of Run for Something, which recruits and supports young, diverse leaders running for local office. Since 2017, they’ve launched the careers of thousands of millennials and Gen Z candidates and in the process, changed what leadership looks like in America. She’s the author of two books: When We’re In Charge: The Next Generation’s Guide to Leadership and Run for Something: A Real-Talk Guide to Fixing the System Yourself, a how-to manual for people running for office.Before launching Run for Something, Amanda worked on multiple presidential and statewide political campaigns. She graduated from Northwestern University and lives in Brooklyn with her husband, two daughters, and their sometimes rowdy dog.Listen to the full episode to hear:How Amanda and the team at Run for Something support candidates in the face of real and present fears for their safetyWhy Gen Z’s refusal to accept “the way things are done” is energy we need Why Amanda believes in the optimism of looking to what is possibleWhy getting involved on the local level is a powerful counter to pessimismThe major disconnect of pop leadership advice with how most people encounter leadershipHow our current moment is making leadership uniquely challenging, isolating, and exhaustingWhy leadership isn’t about being your full self at work, but about responsible authenticityLearn more about Amanda Litman:WebsiteRun for SomethingInstagram: @amandalitmTikTok: @amandalitmanBluesky: @amandalitman.bsky.socialFacebook: @amanda.litmanConnect on LinkedInLearn more about Rebecca:rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaThe Unburdened Leader on SubstackSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:Run for Something: A Real-Talk Guide to Fixing the System YourselfWhen We're in Charge: The Next Generation's Guide to LeadershipDark WindsAlong Came Amor, Alexis DariaYou Had Me at Hola, Alexis DariaThe Breakfast Club

Nostalgia can be a balm. Especially when we’re in what feels like a never-ending season of upheaval and change, where every time we start to get our footing, something shifts yet again.When we’re in the throes of change–in the liminal space, the in-between, the in-betwixt–we as human beings are neurologically wired to seek out what’s known, to reach for comfort and what feels like home. And nostalgia does that for us. It’s no wonder we look back fondly on simpler times, real or imagined.Because nostalgia isn’t necessarily the truth. And nostalgia doesn’t always serve our growth. Connecting over “Remember when?” can too easily divide us when it becomes a rigid longing for a past that excludes and harms others or ignores painful truths.So many of us are living and leading in the confusion, disorientation, and discomfort of these liminal spaces of change. Which is why I invited today’s guest to join me for a conversation about the pulls of nostalgia, the discomfort of liminal space, and the courage it takes to lead ourselves and others through uncertainty without losing our way.Chris Hoff, PhD, LMFT is a narrative therapist, educator, podcaster, and founder of the California Family Institute. His work explores the intersection of psychotherapy, poststructural theory, and speculative futures. Chris is known for his ability to translate complex ideas into pragmatic tools for clients and clinicians alike. He is the host of The Radical Therapist Podcast and co-editor of An Encyclopedia of Radical Helping. Chris’s teaching, writing, and consulting center the creative, relational, and political dimensions of healing and change.Listen to the full episode to hear:How the concept of liminal space can help us normalize the push-pull of the known and the possibleHow the process of Narrative Therapy can help people reclaim agency and possibility Why building coalitions with shared commitments is vital for making change across our differencesHow intentional scenario planning can help people and organizations see what they need to make the best-case scenario more likelyHow nostalgia can keep us stuck in problematic storylines about the pastLearn more about Chris Hoff, PhD, LMFT:WebsiteCalifornia Family InstituteThe Radical Therapist PodcastLiminal Lab on SubstackInstagram: @drchrishoffYouTube: @drchrishoffAn Encyclopedia of Radical Helping, Erin Segal, Chris Hoff, Julie ChoLearn more about Rebecca:rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaThe Unburdened Leader on SubstackSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:Man's Search for Meaning, Viktor FranklThe Gift of Therapy: An Open Letter to a New Generation of Therapists and Their Patients, Irvin YalomNarrative TherapyCollective Cultural Action | The Critical Art EnsembleBeyond Community | Liminal LabTherapy Rocks! | Against Nostalgia | Liminal LabZen at the End of Religion: An Introduction for the Curious, the Skeptical, and the Spiritual But Not Religious, James Ishmael FordPhilosophy for Militants, Alain BadiouThe Years of Theory: Lectures on Modern French Thought, Fredric JamesonThe 1975 - Somebody ElseAndorValley GirlSome Kind of Wonderful

When you hear the word, feedback, what comes up for you?Most of us do not have a neutral relationship with feedback. It’s tangled up with our past experiences, workplace power dynamics, cultural expectations, and–importantly–our early relational wounds.But at its core, feedback is a deeply relational act that has the power to help us unburden rather than re-wound.Which is why it’s so frustrating that feedback in leadership and workplace culture is so often done without care, rendering the process performative, detached, and isolating.Some of the constraints that can hamper authentic feedback in the workplace are necessary and protective, but it feels like we’ve lost the plot for the role and purpose of feedback, and in some cases, have abandoned it altogether.But it is possible to navigate these complex systems intentionally and with clarity. We can make feedback a tool for accountability, care, and growth that helps leaders strengthen their self-awareness and be better advocates for their teams.My guest today helps us unpack how leaders can cultivate a feedback culture that allows for mistakes, growth, and realignment.Therese Huston, Ph.D., is a Cognitive Neuroscientist and Faculty Development Consultant at Seattle University. She was the founding director of the university’s Center for Excellence in Teaching and Learning and is now a consultant for its Center for Faculty Development. Her latest book Sharp: 14 Simple Ways to Improve Your Life with Brain Science is out now from Mayo Clinic Press.Listen to the full episode to hear:Why how and where feedback is delivered matters just as much for positive feedback as negativeStrategies for making feedback a supportive and generative dialogueWhy it’s critical to allow others space to process your feedback before you start problem solvingHow starting with your authentic positive intentions can make others more receptive to feedbackWhy it’s worth ending the conversation by checking in about their takeawaysHow typical feedback can perpetuate disparities in the workplace, and steps leaders can take to change those dynamicsA tip from Therese’s new book to help manage stress and difficult conversationsLearn more about Therese Huston, Ph.D.:WebsiteTwitter: @ThereseHustonConnect on LinkedInLet's Talk: Make Effective Feedback Your SuperpowerSharp: 14 Simple Ways to Improve Your Life with Brain ScienceLearn more about Rebecca:rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaThe Unburdened Leader on SubstackSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:Principles: Life and Work, Ray DalioRadical Candor: Be a Kick-Ass Boss Without Losing Your Humanity, Kim ScottNine Lies about Work: A Freethinking Leader's Guide to the Real World, Marcus Buckingham, Ashley GoodallThe Coaching Habit: Say Less, Ask More & Change the Way You Lead Forever, Michael Bungay StanierThanks for the Feedback: The Science and Art of Receiving Feedback Well Douglas Stone, Sheila HeenThe 90 second life cycle of an emotionLeslie K. JohnPersonality feedback is holding certain groups back – TextioJob Burnout At 66% In 2025, New Study ShowsEP 123: Befriending Your Nervous System: Building Capacity for Regulation with Deb DanaThe Frozen River, Ariel LawhonAdele - SkyfallShrinking

The leaders I work with want to be the kind of leaders who can handle complexity without defaulting to blame, shame, or shutting down.But when visibility and accountability collide with unhealed relational wounding, it doesn’t matter how many books we’ve read or retreats we’ve attended; our bodies remember. And it can feel deeply uncomfortable.Discomfort is part of the gig, though. If we let it, it moves us towards being better humans to ourselves and others. True accountability may not always lead to repair and reconnection, but it is a profoundly relational and humanizing practice led by values, justice, and grace.But when discomfort turns to shame, accountability feels threatening rather than connective. And when we fear accountability and its discomfort, it causes more harm.The work of unburdening is never entirely over, but as Dr. Richard Schwartz reminded me in today’s fifth anniversary conversation, the more unburdened we are, the more accountable we become. The more we desire justice. The more we want to see change. It’s a powerful affirmation of what’s possible when we commit to being Unburdened Leaders.Richard Schwartz began his career as a systemic family therapist and an academic. Grounded in systems thinking, Dr. Schwartz developed Internal Family Systems (IFS) in response to clients’ descriptions of various parts within themselves. He focused on the relationships among these parts and noticed that there were systemic patterns to the way they were organized across clients. He also found that when the clients’ parts felt safe and were allowed to relax, the clients would spontaneously experience the qualities of confidence, openness, and compassion that Dr. Schwartz came to call the Self. He found that when in that state of Self, clients would know how to heal their parts.A featured speaker for national professional organizations, Dr. Schwartz has published many books and over fifty articles about IFS.Listen to the full episode to hear:How being in Self allows us to act assertively without igniting defensivenessHow IFS can help us maintain our empathy and compassion without burning outThe challenges and risks of the rapid popularization of IFS via social mediaWhy being in Self is a continuum not a binaryWhy Dr. Schwartz has a pep talk with his parts every day, even after decades of doing the workHow he’s navigating increasing media exposure while staying true to his values and IFS principlesHow Self creates a natural desire for accountability in our inner and outer worldsLearn more about Dr. Richard Schwartz:IFS InstituteLearn more about Rebecca:rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaThe Unburdened Leader on SubstackSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email

Fear of the unfamiliar is a powerful force. And when it comes to autism, we don’t only have a knowledge problem, we have a courage problem. We’ve all seen or experienced the harm that comes with labels, bullying, and social exclusion. But reflexively protecting ourselves keeps us locked in a cycle of ignoring the need for real education beyond tropes or inspiration porn and keeps us from normalizing the varied needs and supports for autistics instead of perpetuating these supports as burdens or flaws.So, how can we, as leaders, challenge ourselves to create a world where everyone is welcome—even those who don’t fit the mold? We invite autistic voices to the table and platform them in the spaces we live, work, and lead. And we face our fears and discomforts, without getting bogged down with perfectionism and focusing on simply doing the next right thing.When our director of Health and Human Services is using his position to spread narratives about autistic people that are not only inaccurate, but dangerous, we have to embrace and speak up for inclusion. Inclusion isn’t always easy or efficient, but it makes us more prosperous as a community, and courage grows becomes a contagion.Today’s conversation will help you consider how we can move past toxic, dehumanizing views about autistic people and start leading with more compassion and understanding.Eric Garcia is the senior Washington correspondent for The Independent who authors its Inside Washington newsletter. He is also a columnist for MSNBC and the author of We're Not Broken: Changing the Autism Conversation. He previously worked at The Washington Post, The Hill, Roll Call, National Journal, and MarketWatch.Meg Raby is an autistic female, children’s author of the My Brother Otto series, Speech Language Pathologist, writer for Scary Mommy and full time employee of the nation’s leading nonprofit in sensory inclusion, KultureCity. At any given moment, Meg is thinking about how to better love on the humans around her and how to create positive change without causing division.Content note: Brief, non-descriptive mentions of suicideListen to the full episode to hear:How the anti-vaccine narrative around autism pulls resources from the actual work of improving outcomes for autistic peopleHow our relational history can intersect with shame and perfectionism to make us fear a neurodivergent diagnosisHow a deficits-based approach limits our ability to envision what a happy, fulfilling life looks like for autistic peopleHow validating what’s often underneath fears about autism can more effectively start conversations that change mindsWhy making spaces neurodivergent affirming is ongoing work, not a checklistLearn more about Eric Garcia:WebsiteTwitter: @EricMGarciaInstagram: @EricMGarcia14We're Not Broken: Changing the Autism ConversationLearn more about Meg Raby Klinghoffer:KultureCityMeg's Work at Scary MommyInstagram: @author.meg.rabyThe My Brother Otto SeriesLearn more about Rebecca:rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaThe Unburdened Leader on SubstackSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:Maintenance Phase: RFK Jr. and The Rise of the Anti-Vaxx MovementMaintenance Phase: RFK Jr. and The Mainstreaming Of The Anti-Vaxx MovementScary Mommy: My Aging Parents Shocked Me By Walking Away From Our Relationship