How to Smash the Motherhood Penalty

In this episode, I chat with Georgie Dent, one of Australia’s leading voices on gender equality, parental support, early childhood education, and the motherhood penalty. As CEO of The Parenthood, Georgie has spent years campaigning for a system that recognises, values, and properly supports the work of caregiving.Georgie shares her own lived experience, from her early career as a lawyer and journalist, to navigating severe burnout, to becoming a fierce advocate for parents and families across Australia.We unpack the structural drivers of the motherhood penalty, the economic impact of underfunded childcare systems, the cultural narratives that hold women back, and the practical policy changes that could transform families’ lives across Australasia.If you care about gender equity, the future of work, or raising children in a society that genuinely supports families, this conversation is essential listening.We speak about:· Georgie’s journey from lawyer to journalist to national advocate· The reality of burnout and why workplaces still misunderstand it· How The Parenthood is driving major policy reform across Australia· Why early childhood education should be treated as essential infrastructure· How the motherhood penalty affects families economically, emotionally and generationally· What governments must fix, and what businesses can do right now· Why fathers and partners are a crucial part of the solution· The cultural narratives that shame mothers (and how to rewrite them)· Practical change parents can push for in their own workplaces and communitiesConnect with GeorgieThe Parenthood: https://www.theparenthood.org.au/Connect with EmmaThis podcast was funded and created by Emma Mclean, the founder of Works for Everyone.Emma Mclean is a mum of three and founder of Works for Everyone, a professional development business that partners with NZ's leading corporates to help them retain and grow their working parent talent. She does this through innovative leadership programmes, executive coaching and keynote speaking. She founded her business in 2019 following a 20-year career in corporate strategy where she experienced first-hand how hard it was to have a career and a family.As an impatient optimist when it comes to system change, she launched her successful podcast “How to Smash the Motherhood Penalty” in 2023 where she talks to humans who are actively working to change the system that creates financial penalties that only mothers pay. And in 2024 she launched the first NZ Part Time Power List – to shine a light on those senior roles in NZ that are career building, not side stepping." To work with Emma or enquire about speaking – emma@worksforeveryone.co.nz www.worksforeveryone.co.nz https://www.instagram.com/worksforeveryone/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-mclean-9176217/

In this episode, I chat with Michelle Allbon and Julia Bower, the powerhouse duo behind The Fractional Directory, a progressive platform redefining what leadership and productivity look like in today’s world of work.Michelle and Julia share the story of how they met as new mums in an antenatal class and went on to build a global business helping leaders and companies embrace fractional work, a model that challenges the outdated 40-hour work week and creates new opportunities for parents, women, and top-tier talent to work differently.Together, they unpack the cultural and structural barriers holding companies back from embracing flexible leadership, how the Fractional Directory is driving change across New Zealand, Singapore and Australia, and why “part-time” should no longer mean “less than.”This conversation is packed with insights on career reinvention, female leadership, systems change, and motherhood without compromise. It’s honest, smart, and deeply inspiring.We speak about:· How Michelle and Julia turned their shared frustration into a global startup· What “fractional work” really means, and how it differs from part-time or consulting· Why flexible leadership models are key to smashing the motherhood penalty· The cultural and policy barriers stopping companies from adopting new ways of working· How Singapore’s government is leading the charge with a national fractional hiring pilot· Why “hours ≠ value”, and why we need to measure productivity by outcomes, not time· How mothers can reclaim ambition, identity and financial power through new work modelsConnect with Michelle and Julia Fractional directory: https://www.fractional.directory/ Follow Michelle on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelleallbon/ Follow Julia on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julialbower/Connect with EmmaThis podcast was funded and created by Emma Mclean, the founder of Works for Everyone.Emma Mclean is a mum of three and founder of Works for Everyone, a professional development business that partners with NZ's leading corporates to help them retain and grow their working parent talent. She does this through innovative leadership programmes, executive coaching and keynote speaking. She founded her business in 2019 following a 20-year career in corporate strategy where she experienced first-hand how hard it was to have a career and a family.As an impatient optimist when it comes to system change, she launched her successful podcast “How to Smash the Motherhood Penalty” in 2023 where she talks to humans who are actively working to change the system that creates financial penalties that only mothers pay. And in 2024 she launched the first NZ Part Time Power List – to shine a light on those senior roles in NZ that are career building, not side stepping." To work with Emma or enquire about speaking – emma@worksforeveryone.co.nz www.worksforeveryone.co.nz https://www.instagram.com/worksforeveryone/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-mclean-9176217

In this episode, I chat with Nicola Raynes-Pene, Partner at KPMG, mother of three, and 2024 Part-Time Power Lister, about what it really takes to build a thriving senior-level career while working four days a week.Nicola shares her story of burning out during the GFC, returning to Aotearoa, and reshaping her life and work rhythm to protect her health and her family. She opens up about how boundaries, allyship, and honesty with colleagues and clients have helped her succeed without sacrificing well-being.We explore the deeper systems that fuel the motherhood penalty, from outdated attitudes to the language we use around “part-time” work, and what leaders, partners, and businesses can do to create a fairer, more inclusive workplace for all parents.If you’ve ever wondered how to combine ambition and balance, this episode is proof that you can lead on your own terms and still be present for the people you love.We speak about:·     How Nicola built a senior career on a four-day week without losing momentum·     The realities of burnout and why she re-engineered her career around health and family·     The importance of boundaries and clear communication with clients and teams·     Why authentic male allyship is key to smashing the motherhood penalty·     How KPMG’s paid parental-leave policy is driving real change for both parents·     Why we need to redefine “part-time” and design roles for all genders Connect with EmmaThis podcast was funded and created by Emma Mclean, the founder of Works for Everyone.Emma Mclean is a mum of three and founder of Works for Everyone, a professional development business that partners with NZ's leading corporates to help them retain and grow their working parent talent. She does this through innovative leadership programmes, executive coaching and keynote speaking. She founded her business in 2019 following a 20-year career in corporate strategy where she experienced first-hand how hard it was to have a career and a family. As an impatient optimist when it comes to system change, she launched her successful podcast “How to Smash the Motherhood Penalty” in 2023 where she talks to humans who are actively working to change the system that creates financial penalties that only mothers pay. And in 2024 she launched the first NZ Part Time Power List – to shine a light on those senior roles in NZ that are career building, not side stepping."To work with Emma or enquire about speaking – emma@worksforeveryone.co.nz www.worksforeveryone.co.nzhttps://www.instagram.com/worksforeveryone/https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-mclean-9176217/

In this episode, I chat with Jane Sweeney and Carolyn Kerr, co-founders of Anthem, one of New Zealand’s leading communications and marketing agencies.Together, they unpack how they’ve built a purpose-led, family-first workplace that challenges industry norms and how flexible, trust-based leadership can help smash the motherhood penalty for good.Jane and Carolyn share candid stories from their own careers, from being leading women in PR to raising families while leading major campaigns, and reveal how Anthem became a model for modern, human-centred business.They talk openly about flexibility that works for everyone (not just mothers), the part-time penalty, normalising men as caregivers, and why empathy and equity are key to building truly inclusive workplaces.If you’re a business leader, parent, or advocate for workplace equality, this episode will inspire you to rethink how work can work for all.We speak about:·     The founding story of Anthem and how Jane and Carolyn built a “no sweatshop” culture·     Why flexibility must go beyond gender and job titles·     How trust, transparency, and human connection drive performance and retention·     The unseen “part-time penalty” and how to challenge it·     Real-life examples of progressive policies, from phased returns and job shares to paw-ternity leave·     Practical advice for employers to support working parents (and all caregivers)·     The cultural shift needed to normalise men working part-time·     Why equitable pay, flexible roles, and open conversations matter more than ever Connect with EmmaThis podcast was funded and created by Emma Mclean, the founder of Works for Everyone.Emma Mclean is a mum of three and founder of Works for Everyone, a professional development business that partners with NZ's leading corporates to help them retain and grow their working parent talent. She does this through innovative leadership programmes, executive coaching and keynote speaking. She founded her business in 2019 following a 20-year career in corporate strategy where she experienced first-hand how hard it was to have a career and a family. As an impatient optimist when it comes to system change, she launched her successful podcast “How to Smash the Motherhood Penalty” in 2023 where she talks to humans who are actively working to change the system that creates financial penalties that only mothers pay. And in 2024 she launched the first NZ Part Time Power List – to shine a light on those senior roles in NZ that are career building, not side stepping."To work with Emma or enquire about speaking – emma@worksforeveryone.co.nz www.worksforeveryone.co.nzhttps://www.instagram.com/worksforeveryone/https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-mclean-9176217/

Welcome to this bonus and unique episode where as part of the TVNZ documentary “The Motherhood Penalty TBC”, I interview Tāmati Rimene-Sproat. Well, in fact, Tāmati actually interviews me in advance of him becoming a first time dad. We talk about what his expectations are as he looks forward to becoming a dad, what kind of a dad he wants to be and he gets curious about how he might best support his partner.  Tāmati shares his memories of how hard his Dad worked for his family and how that role model has influenced him along with how he might want to re-frame what success is in being a Dad.  Resources Discussedhttps://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/counting-the-beatConnect with EmmaThis podcast was funded and created by Emma Mclean, the founder of Works for Everyone.Emma Mclean is a mum of three and founder of Works for Everyone, a professional development business that partners with NZ's leading corporates to help them retain and grow their working parent talent. She does this through innovative leadership programmes, executive coaching and keynote speaking. She founded her business in 2019 following a 20-year career in corporate strategy where she experienced first-hand how hard it was to have a career and a family. As an impatient optimist when it comes to system change, she launched her successful podcast “How to Smash the Motherhood Penalty” in 2023 where she talks to humans who are actively working to change the system that creates financial penalties that only mothers pay. And in 2024 she launched the first NZ Part Time Power List – to shine a light on those senior roles in NZ that are career building, not side stepping."To work with Emma or enquire about speaking – emma@worksforeveryone.co.nz www.worksforeveryone.co.nzhttps://www.instagram.com/worksforeveryone/https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-mclean-9176217/

In this episode, I chat with Jane Wrightson, New Zealand’s Retirement Commissioner, to unpack how motherhood impacts women’s long-term financial security.Jane shares her personal experience of becoming a mother in the 1990s without paid parental leave and highlights how policies like KiwiSaver, superannuation, and workplace flexibility directly shape women’s financial futures.From the gender pay gap to the retirement savings gap, she explains why even short breaks from the workforce have long-lasting effects, and what families, employers, and policymakers can do to change the system.This candid conversation blends policy insights, practical advice, and big-picture thinking about how to value caregiving and create fairer systems for mothers in Aotearoa.If you’ve ever wondered how career breaks, flexible work, and financial planning intersect with gender equity, this episode will give you both clarity and a call to action.We speak about:· Why the motherhood penalty shows up in retirement savings· How KiwiSaver contributions (or the lack of them) compound over time· The importance of agency and open conversations with employers, partners, and whānau· What employers can do to reduce inequity and close the pay gap· Why NZ Super is a feminist issue and what changes Jane believes would make a real differenceConnect with EmmaThis podcast was funded and created by Emma Mclean, the founder of Works for Everyone.Emma Mclean is a mum of three and founder of Works for Everyone, a professional development business that partners with NZ's leading corporates to help them retain and grow their working parent talent. She does this through innovative leadership programmes, executive coaching and keynote speaking. She founded her business in 2019 following a 20-year career in corporate strategy where she experienced first-hand how hard it was to have a career and a family.As an impatient optimist when it comes to system change, she launched her successful podcast “How to Smash the Motherhood Penalty” in 2023 where she talks to humans who are actively working to change the system that creates financial penalties that only mothers pay. And in 2024 she launched the first NZ Part Time Power List – to shine a light on those senior roles in NZ that are career building, not side stepping." To work with Emma or enquire about speaking – emma@worksforeveryone.co.nz www.worksforeveryone.co.nz https://www.instagram.com/worksforeveryone/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-mclean-9176217/

In this episode, I chat with Stephanie Pow, founder of Crayon, a startup on a mission to reduce financial stress in the moments that matter most. Crayon is best known for creating the New Zealand Parental Leave Register, which brings transparency to over 300 verified parental leave policies nationwide.Stephanie shares the personal journey that inspired her to launch Crayon, and why even with a finance background, she found navigating the costs of parenthood unexpectedly challenging.She explains how lack of transparency and support around parental leave can deepen the motherhood penalty and how better policies, planning and paid partner leave could change everything.Stephanie also opens up about her own experience juggling entrepreneurship, parenting and the invisible mental load, and why she believes paid partner leave could be the single biggest lever to smash the motherhood penalty.We speak about:· The financial realities new parents face and why they’re often unprepared· How the NZ Parental Leave Register works and why it’s changing the conversation· The hidden pitfalls of clawback clauses and qualifying criteria· Why return-to-work support and “returnships” matter· The link between paid partner leave and closing the gender pay gap· Practical steps employers can take to support parents and retain talentResources Discussed · https://www.gocrayon.com/ · https://nyupress.org/9781479835454/what-works-for-women-at-work/ · https://hbr.org/2021/09/the-problem-with-greedy-workConnect with EmmaThis podcast was funded and created by Emma Mclean, the founder of Works for Everyone.Emma Mclean is a mum of three and founder of Works for Everyone, a professional development business that partners with NZ's leading corporates to help them retain and grow their working parent talent. She does this through innovative leadership programmes, executive coaching and keynote speaking. She founded her business in 2019 following a 20-year career in corporate strategy where she experienced first-hand how hard it was to have a career and a family.As an impatient optimist when it comes to system change, she launched her successful podcast “How to Smash the Motherhood Penalty” in 2023 where she talks to humans who are actively working to change the system that creates financial penalties that only mothers pay. And in 2024 she launched the first NZ Part Time Power List – to shine a light on those senior roles in NZ that are career building, not side stepping." To work with Emma or enquire about speaking – emma@worksforeveryone.co.nz www.worksforeveryone.co.nz https://www.instagram.com/worksforeveryone/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-mclean-9176217/

What would our workplaces and homes look like if caregiving was truly valued, shared, and supported?In this thought-provoking episode, I sit down with Joe Consedine and Jess Stuart from Mobilise to unpack the invisible labour of caregiving, the systemic barriers that keep gender norms in place, and the opportunities we have to innovate for equity.From the daily “mental load” of running a household, to the stigma men face when taking parental leave, this conversation challenges us to rethink what we reward in both professional and personal life.Jess and Joe share their vision of a world where caregiving is recognised as a skill, not a burden, and where policy, culture, and mindset shifts work together to create real change.We speak about:· Why unpaid care work remains undervalued, and how it impacts gender equity· The structural and cultural barriers to shared caregiving in families· How organizations can innovate HR policies (flexibility, job design, parental leave) to reflect the future of work· The importance of normalizing men as active, equal caregivers from the very start· The “boring but essential” caregiving tasks that keep households running and why sharing them matters as much as the joyful moments· What it will take to rewire workplaces, families, and society to support true equalityResources Discussed · Mobilise: https://www.menasallies.co.nz/mobilise-programme· Connect with Joe on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joeconsedinenz/· Connect with Jess on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jess-stuart-559a7940/Connect with EmmaThis podcast was funded and created by Emma Mclean, the founder of Works for Everyone.Emma Mclean is a mum of three and founder of Works for Everyone, a professional development business that partners with NZ's leading corporates to help them retain and grow their working parent talent. She does this through innovative leadership programmes, executive coaching and keynote speaking. She founded her business in 2019 following a 20-year career in corporate strategy where she experienced first-hand how hard it was to have a career and a family.As an impatient optimist when it comes to system change, she launched her successful podcast “How to Smash the Motherhood Penalty” in 2023 where she talks to humans who are actively working to change the system that creates financial penalties that only mothers pay. And in 2024 she launched the first NZ Part Time Power List – to shine a light on those senior roles in NZ that are career building, not side stepping." To work with Emma or enquire about speaking – emma@worksforeveryone.co.nz www.worksforeveryone.co.nz https://www.instagram.com/worksforeveryone/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-mclean-9176217/

In this episode, I talk to Victoria Crockford, Project Director of the Coalition to End Women’s Homelessness, to shine a light on an issue too often hidden from view: the growing housing insecurity faced by women in Aotearoa New Zealand.Victoria brings her wealth of experience across community housing, advocacy, the arts, and climate action to unpack the complex realities behind women’s homelessness.She explains why older women, sole parents, and Māori women are disproportionately affected, and challenges the myths that homelessness is a “choice.”This is not one of the conversations we have had on the podcast yet, and we do talk about the relationship between women's homelessness and domestic & sexual violence. Please listen with care.We speak about:· The 57,000 women in New Zealand currently experiencing homelessness (Census 2023).· Why women’s homelessness often looks different, more hidden, through couch surfing, unsafe housing, or staying in violent relationships.· The link between the motherhood penalty and long-term housing insecurity.· How systemic issues like the gender pay gap and benefit structures keep women in poverty.· Practical actions landlords, policymakers, and communities can take to reduce women’s homelessness.Resources Discussed·https://www.coalitiontoendwomenshomelessness.org/Connect with EmmaThis podcast was funded and created by Emma Mclean, the founder of Works for Everyone.Emma Mclean is a mum of three and founder of Works for Everyone, a professional development business that partners with NZ's leading corporates to help them retain and grow their working parent talent. She does this through innovative leadership programmes, executive coaching and keynote speaking. She founded her business in 2019 following a 20-year career in corporate strategy where she experienced first-hand how hard it was to have a career and a family.As an impatient optimist when it comes to system change, she launched her successful podcast “How to Smash the Motherhood Penalty” in 2023 where she talks to humans who are actively working to change the system that creates financial penalties that only mothers pay. And in 2024 she launched the first NZ Part Time Power List – to shine a light on those senior roles in NZ that are career building, not side stepping." To work with Emma or enquire about speaking – emma@worksforeveryone.co.nz www.worksforeveryone.co.nz https://www.instagram.com/worksforeveryone/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-mclean-9176217/

In this episode, I talk to Dr. Amanda Sterling, Principal Director, award-winning consultant, and proud mum, to unpack her groundbreaking PhD research to help organisations remove systemic barriers and close gender pay gaps.Amanda combines decades in corporate leadership development and culture change with work that is backed by data, driven by curiosity, and fuelled by a deep commitment to creating workplaces where women can thrive.We speak about:· Amanda’s personal story of returning to work post-parental leave, and how it led to her PhD· The subtle ways bias and outdated assumptions sideline mothers in the workplace· Surprising findings from Amanda’s latest survey of 212 women in leadership roles· Why manager support and partner support top the list of career success factors for women· Practical steps organisations can take to hold leaders accountable and build inclusive leadership capability· The role of parental leave policies in shifting gender norms and why paying both parents matters· How to have the “awkward but essential” career conversations at home· Why the solution isn’t telling women to “lean in”, it’s changing the systemResources Discussed · Connect with Dr Amanda Sterling: https://dramandasterling.com/Connect with EmmaThis podcast was funded and created by Emma Mclean, the founder of Works for Everyone.Emma Mclean is a mum of three and founder of Works for Everyone, a professional development business that partners with NZ's leading corporates to help them retain and grow their working parent talent. She does this through innovative leadership programmes, executive coaching and keynote speaking. She founded her business in 2019 following a 20-year career in corporate strategy where she experienced first-hand how hard it was to have a career and a family.As an impatient optimist when it comes to system change, she launched her successful podcast “How to Smash the Motherhood Penalty” in 2023 where she talks to humans who are actively working to change the system that creates financial penalties that only mothers pay. And in 2024 she launched the first NZ Part Time Power List – to shine a light on those senior roles in NZ that are career building, not side stepping." To work with Emma or enquire about speaking – emma@worksforeveryone.co.nz www.worksforeveryone.co.nz https://www.instagram.com/worksforeveryone/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-mclean-9176217/

In this episode, Emma sits down with two of New Zealand’s 2024 Part-Time Power Listers: Emma Thompson and Liz Blythe.Emma is a partner in PWC’s private business team and a chartered accountant with a passion for simplifying finance through technology. She supports privately owned businesses with virtual CFO services, finance function, transformation and general accounting and tax. Emma co-leads PWC’s women in business founder series championing woman-led businesses to connect, grow, and reach their goals.Liz is a partner at Russell Mcveagh, heading up technology, digital, and strategic sourcing law practice in Auckland. Liz also sits on Russell Mcveagh’s Board of Management and is the board lead for the firm's AI transformation program. Liz has worked on a reduced hours arrangement at Russell Mcveagh since 2022.These two incredible women are senior leaders in law and finance, and they’re doing it all while working reduced hours and raising young families. Together, they unpack the reality of senior part-time roles, the mental load of motherhood, setting boundaries at work, and how they’ve shaped careers on their own terms.From how to structure a four-day workweek, to the importance of organisational support, to creating equity at home and in the workplace, this conversation is packed with wisdom, real talk, and practical takeaways for anyone balancing ambition with caregiving.Whether you’re eyeing a more flexible career path, already working part-time, or leading a team that includes parents, this episode will shift how you think about leadership, success, and what’s really possible.We speak about:· The real power behind reduced-hours roles and why they work at senior levels· How Emma and Liz set (and protect) their non-working days· Managing guilt, boundaries, and expectations in high-pressure industries· The truth about mental load and why “help” at home isn’t the answer· How supportive leadership and open conversations make all the difference· The importance of role modelling flexible success and why visibility matters· Why part-time does not mean part-talented, part-driven, or part-committedNominations are open for the 2025 NZ Part Time Power List - a list that celebrates innovative employers who are creating senior career building part time roles. Nominations close on August 18th 2025: https://forms.gle/mAw8e35zbaK1yEj49Resources Discussed · Anna Whitehouse Instagram https://www.instagram.com/mother_pukka/?hl=en· Dirty Mother Pukka Podcast https://open.spotify.com/show/5f2dP1jR7pYrhGRzz5NMKy?si=f235bb67ad76474e · "Fair Play" by Eve Rodsky https://www.fairplaylife.com/· "Fair Play" card deck (A Couple's Conversation Deck for Prioritising What's Important) https://shorturl.at/bXaLlConnect with EmmaThis podcast was funded and created by Emma Mclean, the founder of Works for Everyone.Emma Mclean is a mum of three and founder of Works for Everyone, a professional development business that partners with NZ's leading corporates to help them retain and grow their working parent talent. She does this through innovative leadership programmes, executive coaching and keynote speaking. She founded her business in 2019 following a 20-year career in corporate strategy where she experienced first-hand how hard it was to have a career and a family.As an impatient optimist when it comes to system change, she launched her successful podcast “How to Smash the Motherhood Penalty” in 2023 where she talks to humans who are actively working to change the system that creates financial penalties that only mothers pay. And in 2024 she launched the first NZ Part Time Power List – to shine a light on those senior roles in NZ that are career building, not side stepping." To work with Emma or enquire about speaking – emma@worksforeveryone.co.nz www.worksforeveryone.co.nz...

In this powerful conversation, I talk to Dr Ellen Joan Ford, who is terrifyingly ambitious about improving the working world for people and for organisations.As a leader, researcher, military veteran, international speaker, TEDx speaker, facilitator, consultant and parent, Ellen draws on her research and practical experiences to drive organisational outcomes by enhancing inclusive leadership capabilities and workplace culture.Ellen shares what she learned about leadership, identity and inclusion over more than a decade in the New Zealand Army, including the double standards mothers face, how bias shows up in both obvious and subtle ways, and why we need to rethink “professionalism” in the workplace.This conversation is practical, honest and deeply empowering, especially if you’re navigating leadership, parenthood, or workplaces that weren’t designed with mothers in mind.Ellen was awarded the Kiwi Bank New Zealander of the Year - Local Hero for her efforts supporting the evacuation of 563 from Afghanistan, is Person of the Year - Manawatu Standard and the prestigious Sir Peter Blake Leadership Award. She is the author of #WorkSchoolHours and her leadership model is Belonging, Autonomy and Purpose.We speak about:· Why “business as usual” doesn’t work for working parents· What true leadership and inclusion really look like· How unconscious bias shows up in work and parenting· Ellen’s experience with reintegration after parental leave· Why the personal is professional… and always has been· How leaders and organisations can better support parentsResources Discussed· Enter the code EMMA at checkout to get a free copy of Dr Ellen Joan Ford’s e-book: #WorkSchoolHours – buy it here: www.ellenjoanford.com · Connect with Dr Ellen Joan Ford on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-ellen-joan-ford-791a2655/Connect with EmmaThis podcast was funded and created by Emma Mclean, the founder of Works for Everyone.Emma Mclean is a mum of three and founder of Works for Everyone, a professional development business that partners with NZ's leading corporates to help them retain and grow their working parent talent. She does this through innovative leadership programmes,executive coaching and keynote speaking. She founded her business in 2019 following a 20-year career in corporate strategy where she experienced first-hand how hard it was to have a career and a family.As an impatient optimist when it comes to system change, she launched her successful podcast “How to Smash the Motherhood Penalty” in 2023 where she talks to humans who are actively working to change the system that creates financial penalties that only mothers pay. And in 2024 she launched the first NZ Part Time Power List – to shine a light on those senior roles in NZ that are career building, not side stepping." To work with Emma or enquire about speaking – emma@worksforeveryone.co.nz www.worksforeveryone.co.nz https://www.instagram.com/worksforeveryone/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-mclean-9176217/

In this powerful conversation, I am joined by Kimberlee Sweeney, certified divorce and co-parenting coach and founder of Degrees of Separation, to unpack how separation and divorce can amplify the motherhood penalty — and what you can do to protect yourself emotionally, legally and financially.Kimberlee shares her expert insight from a decade in the field, explaining how divorce coaching works, what co-parenting support really looks like, and the critical decisions mothers need to make before, during, and after a relationship ends. She also breaks down how the Aotearoa Divorce and Separation Institute (ADSI) is setting ethical standards for divorce coaching in Aotearoa.This is a must-listen episode if you're navigating (or even contemplating) separation and want to protect your career, your confidence, and your financial future.We speak about:·     What a divorce coach actually does, and why it matters·     Why divorce can intensify the motherhood penalty·     How unpaid caregiving impacts post-divorce financial stability·     The importance of being informed about your legal rights·     Why co-parenting dynamics affect long-term outcomes·     How career coaching and emotional regulation go hand in hand·     The questions every couple should ask before having kids·     Kimberlee’s magic wand solution to valuing unpaid labour in the homeResources Discussed·     Degrees of Separation – https://www.degreesofseparation.co.nz/·     Aotearoa Divorce and Separation Institute (ADSI) – https://adsi.org.nz/ Connect with EmmaThis podcast was funded and created by Emma Mclean, the founder of Works for Everyone.Emma Mclean is a mum of three and founder of Works for Everyone, a professional development business that partners with NZ's leading corporates to help them retain and grow their working parent talent. She does this through innovative leadership programmes, executive coaching and keynote speaking. She founded her business in 2019 following a 20-year career in corporate strategy where she experienced first-hand how hard it was to have a career and a family. As an impatient optimist when it comes to system change, she launched her successful podcast “How to Smash the Motherhood Penalty” in 2023 where she talks to humans who are actively working to change the system that creates financial penalties that only mothers pay. And in 2024 she launched the first NZ Part Time Power List – to shine a light on those senior roles in NZ that are career building, not side stepping."To work with Emma or enquire about speaking – emma@worksforeveryone.co.nz www.worksforeveryone.co.nzhttps://www.instagram.com/worksforeveryone/

In this insightful conversation, I am joined by the brilliant Nicole Retter, founder of PAM, Personal Admin Manager, an app built to ease the mental load for overwhelmed parents.We unpack the invisible labour of parenthood and why the default parent trap isn’t just unfair, but completely unsustainableWe talk about the emotional toll, the cognitive overload, and the system-wide shift we could make if we stopped pretending that flexibility is a “perk” only mothers need.This is an episode that goes beyond complaining. It’s about redesigning.We speak about:·     Why default parenting often survives even “equal” partnerships·     The difference between doing the task and owning the load·     The power of proactive conversations (and default templates) at home·     Why flexibility should be for everyone, not just working mums·     How six months of paternity leave could transform parenting dynamics·     The deep emotional toll dads experience when they’re side-lined·     Why true work-life balance is actually work-life integration Resources DiscussedPam - https://www.mypam.co/Connect with EmmaThis podcast was funded and created by Emma Mclean, the founder of Works for Everyone.Emma Mclean is a mum of three and founder of Works for Everyone, a professional development business that partners with NZ's leading corporates to help them retain and grow their working parent talent. She does this through innovative leadership programmes, executive coaching and keynote speaking. She founded her business in 2019 following a 20-year career in corporate strategy where she experienced first-hand how hard it was to have a career and a family. As an impatient optimist when it comes to system change, she launched her successful podcast “How to Smash the Motherhood Penalty” in 2023 where she talks to humans who are actively working to change the system that creates financial penalties that only mothers pay. And in 2024 she launched the first NZ Part Time Power List – to shine a light on those senior roles in NZ that are career building, not side stepping."To work with Emma or enquire about speaking – emma@worksforeveryone.co.nz www.worksforeveryone.co.nzhttps://www.instagram.com/worksforeveryone/https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-mclean-9176217/

In this powerful conversation, I am joined by the brilliant Rachel Carrell, CEO and Founder of Koru Kids, an innovative childcare provider operating in 10 cities in the UK.Rachel shares the story of how Koru Kids came to be (spoiler: it wasn’t built in 18 months), the brutal reality of childcare systems around the world, and why the motherhood penalty is not a personal budgeting problem, but a structural failure.From shift-working nurses to after-school pickup logistics, Rachel unpacks the real-world ripple effects of underfunded childcare and unequal parental leave, including what it costs women’s careers, family planning, and economic growth.This one’s for the mums doing it all, the dads wanting to step up, and anyone ready to rethink the system we’ve all been squashed into.We speak about:· Why good childcare is essential infrastructure, not a luxury· The profound life decisions people are forced into due to lack of support· How Koru Kids is solving “the hardest childcare problems” (hi, shift-working solo mums!)· The real reason population rates are plummeting· The invisible memos society sends to mums and dads· What really happens when dads try to book a nanny…· Rachel’s two-ended magic wand to smash the motherhood penalty for goodResources Discussed · Koru Kids https://www.korukids.co.uk/Connect with EmmaThis podcast was funded and created by Emma Mclean, the founder of Works for Everyone.Emma Mclean is a mum of three and founder of Works for Everyone, a professional development business that partners with NZ's leading corporates to help them retain and grow their working parent talent. She does this through innovative leadership programmes, executive coaching and keynote speaking. She founded her business in 2019 following a 20-year career in corporate strategy where she experienced first-hand how hard it was to have a career and a family.As an impatient optimist when it comes to system change, she launched her successful podcast “How to Smash the Motherhood Penalty” in 2023 where she talks to humans who are actively working to change the system that creates financial penalties that only mothers pay. And in 2024 she launched the first NZ Part Time Power List – to shine a light on those senior roles in NZ that are career building, not side stepping." To work with Emma or enquire about speaking – emma@worksforeveryone.co.nz www.worksforeveryone.co.nz https://www.instagram.com/worksforeveryone/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-mclean-9176217/

We love talking to people who are trying to smash the system and Haylee Killip is one of these people. A business that was born out of the struggle of a corporate career and the juggle of being a parent. And specifically finding childcare that was flexible. She tried everything when she was a new mum and could not find what she needed.  Whether it was an extra pair of hands so she could work in the other room at home, or someone to provide care for a sick child so she could deliver a key client meeting or even time out to go and get a haircut.  So NOD (Nannies On Demand) was born, as she says - the Uber for Nannies. We speak about her business, her observations and also she shares her experience as a Mum. The conversation covers:Her business NOD: urgent on-demand childcare to support parents who do not have a village around them.How we have flexible working but not flexible childcare. How her NOD nannies are like a warm hug coming into your house. How the motherhood penalty can happen almost subconsciously. The importance of a focus on wellness and putting yourself firstResources Discussedhttps://www.getnod.io/Connect with EmmaThis podcast was funded and created by Emma Mclean, the founder of Works for Everyone.Emma Mclean is a mum of three and founder of Works for Everyone, a professional development business that partners with NZ's leading corporates to help them retain and grow their working parent talent. She does this through innovative leadership programmes, executive coaching and keynote speaking. She founded her business in 2019 following a 20-year career in corporate strategy where she experienced first-hand how hard it was to have a career and a family. As an impatient optimist when it comes to system change, she launched her successful podcast “How to Smash the Motherhood Penalty” in 2023 where she talks to humans who are actively working to change the system that creates financial penalties that only mothers pay. And in 2024 she launched the first NZ Part Time Power List – to shine a light on those senior roles in NZ that are career building, not side stepping."To work with Emma or enquire about speaking – emma@worksforeveryone.co.nz www.worksforeveryone.co.nzhttps://www.instagram.com/worksforeveryone/https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-mclean-9176217/

In this special episode we talk to Katherine Cornish and Vanessa Simons (both from Fisher Funds) about their experiences as single parents. To share their reflections on the motherhood penalty and how they would change the system. To understand the challenges that might be different and what some of the solutions are that help.  Both Katherine and Vanessa become solo parents under different circumstances and they courageously share their stories with us. They share them in a real and unfiltered way which I know so many listeners will find comfort in. We talk about hard things including grief, choices and the importance of leadership relationships that are grounded in trust. It is a unique episode and one that I am proud of. Thank you Katherine and Vanessa, you both smashed this conversation with your clarity, your reflections and your courage. We speak about:The trust between a leader and a working parent. As a single parent, there is no respite. On the plus side, there is the simplicity of not needing to negotiate with another parent. Playing the cards you are dealt. This phrase helped Vanessa to have control over her situation as she was experiencing grief of losing her partner.The importance of getting structure (“rigorous logistics”) and planning in your week. Outsourcing to a cleaner if you can afford it - “it makes my heart a little lighter”. And online shopping - this is buying you time - and something that all three of us do! Saying no to volunteer work - and knowing that it won’t be forever. Brutally prioritise your day and be open with your leader about this. Give yourself permission to choose the least worst outcome. As you can do anything but not everything. The power of a CEO that you can be transparent with and makes you feel like the responsibilities in your life are ok and not bad for your career. Empathy as a leadership quality we need in all our leaders. Magic wand to develop a kinder capitalist society that enables us to priortise our families. Permission to choose what works for you when it comes to working. Resources DiscussedWoolworths online grocery orders!Connect with EmmaThis podcast was funded and created by Emma Mclean, the founder of Works for Everyone.Emma Mclean is a mum of three and founder of Works for Everyone, a professional development business that partners with NZ's leading corporates to help them retain and grow their working parent talent. She does this through innovative leadership programmes, executive coaching and keynote speaking. She founded her business in 2019 following a 20-year career in corporate strategy where she experienced first-hand how hard it was to have a career and a family. As an impatient optimist when it comes to system change, she launched her successful podcast “How to Smash the Motherhood Penalty” in 2023 where she talks to humans who are actively working to change the system that creates financial penalties that only mothers pay. And in 2024 she launched the first NZ Part Time Power List – to shine a light on those senior roles in NZ that are career building, not side stepping."To work with Emma or enquire about speaking – emma@worksforeveryone.co.nz www.worksforeveryone.co.nz

It is not often that you get to talk to an international author and accomplished practitioner in tackling harmful gender norms and promoting positive social change. But in this episode we do as we are talking to Kate Mangino, PhD. Kate is the author of Equal Partners: Improving Gender Equality at Home, which addresses the social norms that underpin household gender inequality - and offers practical advice as to what each of us can do to change them. (Yes, part of our gender problem is structural, which requires policy change. But much of our gender problem is social – which requires US to change.) Kate has also published in Time, Slate, Harvard Business Review and Good Housekeeping. Equal Partners has been featured in The Atlantic, CNN, BBC World News and The Guardian, as well as dozens of podcasts, including We Can Do Hard Things and What Fresh Hell. You can read more about Kate's work at www.katemangino.com. We speak about:The beginning of Kate’s career where she worked in women’s empowerment and  management training but had a realisatation that this was not  what was holding women back. How care giving is coded as women’s work. This is not tied to our biology. But there are unspoken cultural norms. The media has had a massive role in it. There is a price to pay when you become a mum and that includes a risk of sacrificing your health and your time. There are challenges for dads to find a space to talk to other dads. How we don’t even really know what being an equal partner means and the influence of what we saw our parents do. What to do if you feel like you are a control freak about how things are done at home. Why it is not helpful for one partner to say “just write me a list?”Kate’s magic wand to increase understanding that there is so much to be gained from dads being equal partners at home. Resources Discussed“Equal Partners” by Kate Mangino “Untamed” by Glennon DoyleWe Can Do Hard Things podcast“Unfinished Business” by Anne-Marie Slaughter Connect with EmmaThis podcast was funded and created by Emma Mclean, the founder of Works for Everyone.Emma Mclean is a mum of three and founder of Works for Everyone, a professional development business that partners with NZ's leading corporates to help them retain and grow their working parent talent. She does this through innovative leadership programmes, executive coaching and keynote speaking. She founded her business in 2019 following a 20-year career in corporate strategy where she experienced first-hand how hard it was to have a career and a family. As an impatient optimist when it comes to system change, she launched her successful podcast “How to Smash the Motherhood Penalty” in 2023 where she talks to humans who are actively working to change the system that creates financial penalties that only mothers pay. And in 2024 she launched the first NZ Part Time Power List – to shine a light on those senior roles in NZ that are career building, not side stepping."To work with Emma or enquire about speaking – emma@worksforeveryone.co.nz 

This is a unique episode where we take a little pulse check on where we are with The Motherhood Penalty with Prue Tyler and Tania Domett. I started this podcast in September 2023 to start conversations about smashing the system that creates the motherhood penalty. In this episode we talk about how far we have come, we talk about who is carrying the light and of course - what they would use their magic wand for!Prue Tyler is the director of Shift Advisory and Shift Compliance. Shift is all about normalizing flexible working and part-time working primarily in the legal and financial services industries. Prue is also Co-Chair of FSC Empower Women. Tania Domett is a social researcher and she founded her business Cogo eleven years ago where they work across a range of sectors including Finance, DEI, gender equity, family violence, disability, youth, and mental health. She is also co-director of Project Gender, which is a social change agency and feminist innovation studio.We speak about:The Part Time Power List - this was powerful to see - we need to change this at a senior level - not just a junior level. Crayon is carrying the light - being able to look at parental leave policies across employers. Creating transparency The need to support working parents beyond the return to work - pick ups and being flexible is needed.  The glimmers of hope in dads being supported at work and paid partner leave. The importance of talking about money - Hi Money! Is a great organisation - helping women to talk about money. We need to link arms with men. One way to do this is to normalise part time working for men - as well as women. Allyship is important and Joe Consedine is carrying the light. The role for Women in Leadership conferences - networking is a good role but they are expensiveThe importance of sponsorship - how you can cultivate someone to be your sponsor. Getting good and talking about your brand and your proposition. Resources DiscussedSHIFT Advisory, Prue is Founder and Director of this business which is  reshaping professional services – providing on-demand senior consultants (lawyers from SHIFT Advisory and Risk & Compliance, and Corporate Governance Consultants from SHIFT Compliance).  https://shiftadvisory.co.nz/Cogo, Tania is Director of Cogo, a research agency that uses creative approaches to deliver insights, helping our clients make good investment decisions and grow stronger communities. https://www.cogo.co.nz/FSC Empower Woman https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/fsc-empower-women/Project Gender https://www.projectgender.co.nz/Tania Domett - How To Smash the Motherhood Penalty - Season Two Capsule - The Motherhood Penalty https://capsulenz.com/featured/the-motherhood-penalty-part-one/Crayon: NZ’s First Parental Leave Register https://www.gocrayon.com/Hi Money! https://himoney.co/Gender at Work - Workplace...

I dedicated my entire second season to Dads as they are a key part of the puzzle when it comes to gender equity. So when I came across some research on Dads that was entitled: “Passenger parenting, role conflict and guilt: the transition to parenthood from new and experienced fathers” - I got very excited. And that is where Norma Barrett enters - Norma is one of the co-authors of this research and I was so lucky to get time with her to discuss her findings.  Originally from Cork in Ireland, she now lives in Australia and is a lecturer in Public Health and Health Promotion at Deakin University. Norma’s conversation raises the question of how we can facilitate healthy families, when we focus only on the mother’s health. One in ten dads suffer from post natel depression in Australia. Dads suffer too and it is not a zero sum game. We can look after both parents. This conversation is good for couples who are about to become parents, those who are about to become parents again or for those who are interested in how our system impacts on dads. It leaves us with the question - what would our society look like if we looked after fathers?   We speak about:The power of reflections from dads after they transitioned to parenthood. Confusion around their roles - dads know that things are going to change but they never really knew how.One of the most striking outcomes from the research was how the fathers wanted to talk about the impact on their mental health and their partner’s mental health. How Dads prioritise their partner’s needs or preferences before them - they see themselves as the support person and it is hard for them to have their own needs - “not wanting to be an added burden”.How Dads can feel resistance when they try to take a different role at home or at work - and that passenger parenting was safer for them - they felt they were not able to take the wheel. How roles between parents can emerge organically rather than be active decisions. And that we need to make decisions on parental leave before we even know what it will feel like to be a Dad.Caring about what happens to Dads is not about forgetting about caring for Mums. It is important to revisit conversations on what Dads need - at work and at home - again and again. And this can be tricky. Using a magic wand for Dads to help them feel safe in having conversations, for Dads to feel prepared, for Dads to not feel ranked and to be recognised as a parent and not a secondary parent. Resources DiscussedPassenger parenting, role conflict and guilt: the transition to parenthood from new and experienced fathersFair Play by Eve RodskyConnect with EmmaThis podcast was funded and created by Emma Mclean, the founder of Works for Everyone.Emma Mclean is a mum of three and founder of Works for Everyone, a professional development business that partners with NZ's leading corporates to help them retain and grow their working parent talent. She does this through innovative leadership programmes, executive coaching and keynote speaking. She founded her business in 2019 following a 20-year career in corporate strategy where she experienced first-hand how hard it was to have a career and a family. As an impatient optimist when it comes to system change, she launched her successful podcast “How to Smash the Motherhood Penalty” in 2023 where she talks to humans who are actively working to change the system that creates financial penalties that only mothers pay. And in 2024 she launched the first NZ Part