Chain of Learning: Leadership Strategies for Transforming Culture, Developing People, and Getting Results

Help and support. Two words we use almost interchangeably.But do they mean the same thing? And does the distinction even matter?It does. Because your help can be the very thing that keeps someone from developing their own competence and confidence.You want people who are capable and confident to solve problems at every level, without needing you to do it for them. But the project gets done, or the problem gets solved, and the person still can't do it without you. And you find yourself unintentionally owning the responsibility of doing it all.Providing support is an essential part of people-centered leadership. You meet them where they're at, and keep the ownership where it belongs.You’ll Learn:Why providing help and support are not the same thingWhy your intention to be helpful can still lead to overstepping ownership of others' thinking and problem-solvingHow to assess what someone needs from you as a leader in the momentWhy the difference between helping and supporting isn't about time or effort, but where ownership residesHow asking a follow-up question, instead of giving your answer, can become one of your most powerful coaching practices for developing peopleIMPORTANT LINKS:Full episode show notes: ChainOfLearning.com/88Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjandersonSubscribe to my newsletter: kbjanderson.com/newsletterCheck out my website for resources and working together: KBJAnderson.comTIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:00:52 When your good intentions become unhelpful03:35 How being the expert can take ownership away from others04:45 The difference between providing help and support05:55 Why ownership matters more than time or effort07:20 When doing it yourself keeps your team dependent08:05 Three responsibilities of leaders who develop people09:15 When caring becomes carrying: The Doer Trap11:45 Why productive struggle is essential for learning12:55 When to let people struggle and when to step in13:20 How AI can shortcut learning—or support deeper thinking14:35 Why stepping in limits your leadership capacity15:15 How to assess whether someone needs help or support16:35 The power of asking instead of answering17:15 The “Jedi mind trick” that helps people find their own answers18:15 What providing support looks like in practice20:05 One question to try in your next conversation

How do you build deeper human connection in your relationships so that you can more effectively lead change and help others?That question sits at the heart of some of the most influential books in my work, including Helping and Humble Inquiry by Edgar Schein: how we help, not as the expert with all the answers, but by asking better questions as a leader and creating the conditions for other people to develop their own ideas.Edgar’s work has profoundly shaped how I think about leadership, learning, and helping. And in the later years of his life, his son Peter Schein became an important partner in continuing to develop and evolve these ideas of humble leadership and organizational culture.Peter spent 30 years in Silicon Valley in corporate strategy and development before partnering with his father to co-write seven books. He recently released the third edition of Humble Inquiry, continuing to bring these foundational ideas forward for how we lead, learn, and create change today.In this conversation, Peter and I explore how to move beyond transactional relationships to build genuine personal ones. We get underneath the meaning of many of the words we use today—curiosity, vulnerability, and psychological safety—and why seeking clarity gets you further than seeking certainty.You’ll Learn:Why "don’t bring me a problem, bring me a solution" teaches people not to speak upWhy you're most vulnerable when you don't know what you're missingHow "Sharing the MIC" makes humble inquiry practical: Motivation, Intervention, ContributionThe difference between helping as the expert with the answer and helping as the process consultant who creates the conditionsWhy going to see isn't the same as transparencyABOUT MY GUEST:Peter Schein is the co-founder of the Organizational Culture and Leadership Institute. He spent thirty years in Silicon Valley in strategy and corporate development at companies including Apple, Silicon Graphics, and Sun Microsystems, and studied anthropology at Stanford University.Peter partnered with his father, Edgar Schein, to co-write seven books, including Humble Leadership, and has continued to evolve their work through new editions of Humble Inquiry and The Corporate Culture Survival Guide. Edgar Schein was Professor Emeritus at MIT's Sloan School of Management and is recognized as one of the founders of organizational psychology.IMPORTANT LINKS:Full episode show notes: ChainOfLearning.com/86 Connect with Peter Schein on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/peteraschein Learn more about the Organizational Culture and Leadership Institute: scheinocli.org Read Helping, Humble Inquiry, and Humble Leadership: scheinocli.org/publications Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson Subscribe to my newsletter: kbjanderson.com/newsletter Check out my website for resources and working together: KBJAnderson.comTIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:03:06 Transactional vs. relational leadership and why connection matters08:10 Why efficiency without relationships limits effectiveness12:19 When expertise gets in the way of seeing the bigger picture16:24 Why clarity matters more than certainty20:31 When curiosity, vulnerability, and psychological safety become buzzwords22:08 Why you’re vulnerable to what you don’t know24:36 What Humble Inquiry actually looks like in leadership27:26 How Humble Inquiry builds both trust and better information28:35 Why “bring me solutions, not problems” keeps people from speaking up30:35 How to “Share the MIC” and make Humble Inquiry practical36:21 Helping as the expert vs. helping as a process consultant38:33 How AI is changing where leaders and consultants add value44:03 Making invisible team dynamics visible49:35 Why being open to what you don’t know changes how you lead52:26 What going to Gemba teaches us about Humble Inquiry54:29 Why transparency and openness aren’t the same thing

Enter for your chance to win a copy of "Thoughtload" by Liane Davey: http://chainoflearning.com/85Giveaway ends October 9th at 11:45pm Pacific Time.Your team isn't resisting change. They don't have room for it.It's not just workload that's overwhelming us, it's what Liane Davey calls our "thoughtload": the invisible tax on our performance and presence.Liane is an organizational psychologist who works with CEOs and executive teams leading organizational transformation. In her latest book she uncovers how complexity, decisions, and emotional weight are draining us, leaving us feeling like there's too much to do and no space left to think.We bring home what's weighing on us at work, and what we're worried about comes to the next meeting with us. We end up half-present, consumed by what's going on inside, not what's in front of us.Liane shares how to lighten the noise inside your head to focus your attention, work through what you're carrying emotionally, and get your energy back.Urgency, constant change, and the pressure to deliver aren't going away. But thoughtload is something you can manage, before it turns into leadership burnout for you or your team.You’ll Learn:Why the person pushing back on your organizational change isn't a resistor, and what is actually going on inside their brainWhy we've become intolerant of iteration, and how to position a decision so that correcting course doesn't land as flip-floppingHow your team can be busy, productive, and still not moving toward the outcomeHow a heavy thoughtload keeps you from having a hard conversation, and how avoiding productive conflict makes your load heavierWhat it means to "metabolize your thoughtload", and why filling every walk and commute with input leaves no room to thinkABOUT MY GUEST:Dr. Liane Davey is an organizational psychologist and New York Times bestselling author who advises executive teams on strategy, decision-making, and team dynamics. She is co-founder of the firm 3COze and the author of The Good Fight and Thoughtload. Her doctoral research on how team dynamics affect innovation has shaped three decades of her work with senior leaders.IMPORTANT LINKS:Full episode show notes: ChainOfLearning.com/85Connect with Liane Davey: linkedin.com/in/lianedaveyPurchase a copy of Liane's book: thoughtload.comLearn more about Liane: lianedavey.comFollow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjandersonSubscribe to my newsletter: KBJAnderson.com/newsletterCheck out my website for resources and working together: KBJAnderson.comJoin us on the Japan Leadership Experience: KBJAnderson.com/JapanTripTIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:03:00 Why it’s not the workload—it’s the thoughtload06:00 How thoughtload undermines team performance08:00 Why overwhelm shifts leaders from reflection to reaction11:00 Three ways to manage your thoughtload12:00 Why being productive doesn’t mean you’re effective16:45 The problem with having too many priorities19:00 How leaders can lighten their team’s thoughtload20:45 Why your brain needs space to process, not more input23:00 What change leaders miss about resistance24:30 Why labeling people “change resistors” gets it wrong29:30 How avoiding conflict makes your thoughtload heavier32:30 Why managing thoughtload means saying no to good things36:15 When changing direction is learning—not flip-flopping37:25 What deserves to be in your thoughtload?

People-centered. Learning organization. Culture of continuous improvement. We use a lot of different words to describe what we are trying to create.But do we actually mean the same thing? And if we all want it, what's stopping us from getting there? And what is the one thing that could have the biggest impact?So I asked. And you answered.Leaders and change practitioners around the world responded. There wasn't one shared definition or set of words for a people-centered learning culture. But the same essence was in almost every answer.The pressures we're all working in are real, and they're not going away. Yet the biggest impact comes from something we can influence: our own leadership behavior. And that starts with us.You’ll Learn:Why "people-centered" and "learning" are intertwined concepts that support each other in creating a learning organizationHow to describe what we're trying to build to leaders who never ask for a people-centered learning cultureWhy "respect for people" means more than treating people well, and how it's fundamental to developing people and organizational successHow urgency, firefighting, and short-term pressure to deliver results exacerbate our pull toward doing rather than developing peopleWhy the environment is seen as the barrier, and leadership behavior is the lever for changeIMPORTANT LINKS:Full episode show notes: ChainOfLearning.com/84 Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjandersonSubscribe to my newsletter: kbjanderson.com/newsletterCheck out my website for resources and working together: KBJAnderson.comJoin us on the Japan Leadership Experience: KBJAnderson.com/JapanTrip TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:02:03 What leaders actually want from their teams04:31 Why urgency gets in the way of developing people06:17 How ego and leader behavior limit ownership08:22 When fear makes it harder to speak up and learn10:37 The biggest lever for creating a people-centered culture12:35 Why we can’t wait for the system to change14:08 How caring pulls us into the Doer Trap15:47 What “respect for people” really means17:28 What people-centered leadership looks like in practice18:07 How learning happens through the work20:49 What people need to solve their own problems22:35 Start with what you can influence

Overstepping ownership rarely looks like overstepping. It looks like moving things along.You know how something could be improved, so you give your suggestion. Work gets done, progress is visible, but the person you were there to develop doesn't build the capability they need, and the improvement doesn't sustain.Every change leader, manager, and executive does this at some point. And when we take on ownership of what isn't ours, we end up the bottleneck.As a transformational change leader at Kaiser Permanente, Anna Pessah watches this play out every day with the internal consulting team she leads, and with the physician and operational leaders she supports.We break down this challenge and share the practices to use instead. Leaders don't need to stop helping or teaching. It's about getting clear about what each person owns, and adjusting how you help based on what that leader needs in the moment.When ownership sits in the right place, people grow, improvements hold, and you have the space to do what is actually yours to do.You’ll Learn:How to make ownership explicit from the start, by contracting up front and saying out loud which hat you're wearing, coach or consultant or teacherWhy leaders learn good coaching practices best by being coached, and how making your own practice visible lets others model itWhy the pull to step in gets stronger the more you care about the outcomeWhy a new practice often swings too far one direction at first, and how to find the middle without abandoning itWhen asking coaching questions stops being helpful, and how to be directive without taking over the thinkingABOUT MY GUEST:Anna Pessah leads the internal consulting team that oversees the operating system at the North Valley Service Area of Kaiser Permanente, where she coaches physician and operational leaders on strategy, management systems, and the behaviors that support a culture of improvement. She is an industrial engineer from the University of Michigan and an ICF-certified coach. Anna brings a blend of systems thinking, operational improvement, and leadership development to help leaders generate insight, turn goals into action, and build habits that stick.IMPORTANT LINKS:Full episode show notes: ChainOfLearning.com/83 Connect with Anna Pessah: linkedin.com/in/anna-pessah Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson Subscribe to my newsletter: kbjanderson.com/newsletter Check out my website for resources and working together: KBJAnderson.comTIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:03:16 Why change leaders struggle to keep ownership with leaders05:22 When helping starts creating dependence06:15 Building capability instead of becoming the bottleneck07:12 Why doing more can make your job harder09:23 Getting explicit about roles and ownership11:25 Why new practices require reflection and adjustment13:17 Making your leadership practices visible16:03 How to give direction without taking over22:16 What happens when leaders operate at the wrong level24:05 The personal cost of staying in the weeds25:30 Why helping can turn into overstepping27:43 When coaching questions aren’t helpful31:25 The power of listening—and leaving space36:46 Why humility is essential to learning38:18 Recognizing your own pull to control39:06 Simple practices for keeping ownership where it belongs