Vending & OCS Nation Podcast

Some interviews come with a price. Bob Tullio had to round out a foursome - golfing in Mesquite, Nevada, to get an interview with David Henchel. In the process, Tullio lost golf balls, some cash and some confidence in his golf game - but he did score a great interview.  In this episode of Automatic Merchandiser’s Vending & OCS Nation, the podcast for the convenience services industry – produced by Endeavor Business Media, a Division of EndeavorB2B, industry legend David Henchel talks about his 40 years as an operator in the challenging New York City market area.  Henchel started the company after a short stint at Hofstra. When he realized that college wasn’t for him, he started Corporate Coffee Systems along with his brother, Greg, and childhood friend, Don Luti. Henchel says it could not have happened without those guys. One definite highlight of this interview is Henchel's description of the many events that forced him to pivot in his business - most notably, what he had to deal with during the pandemic and how he managed to endure and navigate his way through it.  Tullio brings out the storyteller in Henchel and for Vending & OCS Nation podcast fans, it is an entertaining and informative episode.

The ongoing opportunity that exists from point-of-use water system and ice machine rentals is no secret to experienced operators. Equipment innovation is further enhancing the revenue potential. In this episode of Automatic Merchandiser’s Vending & OCS Nation, the podcast for the convenience services industry – produced by Endeavor Business Media, a Division of EndeavorB2B – host Bob Tullio talked to several industry experts about a wonderful aspect of the OCS business: water, ice and filtration.  This podcast takes a deeper dive into the topic, which Tullio also covered in a recent article for Automatic Merchandiser. Tullio shares with listeners about how he discovered the water and ice business. “As an operator, I kind of stumbled into the point of use water, ice and filtration business — once considered to be a very ancillary part of the OCS industry. It reminded me of the days when I rented pool tables and juke boxes — the kind with 45s and CDs, not the internet versions we see today. As an operator, you would pick up $35 every week from the bar owner, change a few records to the delight of the daytime bar patrons, and be on your way. A slow drip of revenue — $1800 or so, for a juke box that cost about $1000 to begin with. Year after year, a steady return on investment,” he explained. “Much like the point-of-use water business. Steady revenue, it’s like an annuity. It may be the best thing going in the OCS business. But early on in my OCS sales career, I saw the power of filtered water when I convinced E! Entertainment Television to switch from $6,000 a month in bottled water to $600 a month in point-of-use water. They rewarded my brilliant idea by giving us the OCS business — quite an account for our growing company." This podcast features eight industry experts: Orrin Huebner, consultant David Henchel, Corporate Coffee Systems Joanna Choi, Bevi Davin Wickstrom, Vivreau Matt Dudley, Marco Beverage Systems Steve Silha, F&B Innovation Group Brian Zakeski, Follett Products Gary Arwin, Gator Refresh

The numbers are impressive. Naturals2Go has helped 2500 new operators get started since 2009, placing 40,000 machines and according to the company, they have a 14% market share. Vending is a hot business and from all indications, it is now a meaningful part of the gig economy. In this episode of Automatic Merchandiser’s Vending & OCS Nation, the podcast for the convenience services industry – produced by Endeavor Business Media, a Division of EndeavorB2B, host Bob Tullio talked to Natali Pupovac-Peters, senior VP of fulfillment at Naturals2Go – a company that appears to be taking an extremely responsible approach to introducing the convenience services business to people who are attracted to the business opportunity. She takes us behind the scenes and pulls back the curtain on their fast growing operation - talking about their role as an operator, a seller of business opportunity, an equipment manufacturer and a company that is doing all they can to support new operators while keeping their expectations in check - making sure they understand that convenience services is not some magical "passive income" business. As Tullio notes on the podcast intro, "As a long-time operator myself, I had plenty of experience meeting people who had entered the vending business – ushered in by entities that did not have good intentions and were certainly not concerned about whether or not the operator was successful. No reflection on Naurals2Go by any means, but I started the interview – pulling no punches – it was not a surprise to Pupovac-Peters."    

Industry observers, including Automatic Merchandiser’s Vending & OCS Nation Podcast host Bob Tullio, are wondering aloud what next year’s State of the Industry Report will reveal. Sales jumped 30% in the vending and micro market segment and smart markets were not even part of the equation. Next year’s numbers could be off the charts! In Part II of Automatic Merchandiser's Vending & OCS Nation Podcast, on the State of the Vending & Micro Market Industry - the conversation turns to what seems to be an inevitable subject these days - smart markets and their impact on the industry. It was a lively conversation full of outstanding insights taken from two webinars in July. Both webinars are available on demand. Some notable quotes from our guests: "There is a new wave of operators who are no longer looking at vending and micro markets – they are going straight to smart stores." Ben Thomas - Nayax "We need to change our mindset on pricing. We need to step out of that boomer bucket." Josh Rosenberg - Forward Thinkers "We’ve been installing smart stores like crazy in Fed Ex locations and to say they are doing well in sales is probably the biggest understatement I can make." Tony Danna - Cantaloupe Inc "If we have an empty cooler, that is basically a coffin with our logo on it. That user experience comes with committed service." Jon Holden – All Star Services, Inc. "Anyone who is willing to put in the work, the time the energy and the money can compete if they have the right tools in place." Natali Pupovac-Peters – Naturals2Go. "Looking ahead - I think smart markets will increase in a big way, there will be plenty more industry consolidation, vending will decline and new operators will continue to appear." Orrin Huebner - Consultant.

After listening to this podcast, you may reach the same conclusion that podcast host Bob Tullio did. We all seem to be trying to answer one big question. What is driving the explosive growth in our industry? In July, Bob Tullio, the host of Automatic Merchandiser’s Vending & OCS Nation podcast, produced and moderated two live webinars, both of which offered plenty of material that is certainly worth sharing on our Vending & OCS Nation podcast.  While both one hour live webinars are available on demand, the next two episodes of the podcast will look at some of the fantastic content and insights that were shared. Tullio and his panelists talk about the state of the vending and micro market industry – beyond the numbers. For operators and suppliers – what could be more important than that? Our July 8th Webinar - Autonomous Food Service and Retail Solutions – a new level of opportunity, was sponsored by Nayax and featured: Benjamin Thomas vice president, retail product strategy (North America) for Nayax. Operator Jon Holden of All Star Services Josh Rosenberg of Forward Thinkers The July 15th Webinar - Vending and Micro Market State of the Industry Report, was sponsored by Cantaloupe and Naturals2Go, and featured Orrin Huebner, a respected industry consultant Tony Danna of Cantaloupe - vice president of small business and GM of Cantaloupe Go Markets Matthew Rainey, owner of Surpass Refreshments in North Ft. Myers Florida, Natali Pupovac-Peters, head of global operations for Naturals2Go Jeff Criswell - business growth consultant and vending/micro market operator for Naturals2Go Data in Automatic Merchandiser’s State of the Industry report is compiled from a survey sent to operators in the spring of 2025, covering a 12-month period ending March 31, 2025. Over the next two episodes of Vending & OCS Nation, you will hear from everyone on those panels, discussing industry trends – largely about autonomous retail solutions and what the future will bring. This episode combines the survey data with useful insights, to provide a nice wide-angle view of the state of vending, micro markets and of course, that new technology that is coming at us like a freight train – smart markets.  

Without question, the Atlantic Coast Exposition – The Ace Show, sets the bar about as high as it can go for a regional convenience services gathering. The level of planning, attention to detail and creativity required for the 2025 ACE Show is impressive. In this episode of Automatic Merchandiser’s Vending & OCS Nation Podcast, host Bob Tullio noted that “The more I learn about the event, which is sponsored by three state associations - the North Carolina Vending Association, South Carolina Vending Association and the Virginia Automatic Merchandising Association, the goal seems to be, ‘Let’s make this year’s show even better than last year’s show.’  Not an easy task – but the organizers seem to find a way. They also have some fun with the themes of the ACE Show – last year, it was ACE in Space. In 2025, it’s Viva Las Aces. This episode, presented in cooperation with the Atlantic Coast Exposition – ACE – looks at their 2025 trade show, October 9-11, 2025, Embassy Suites/Kingston Plantation in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. Tullio sat down with the ACE 2025 Show Chair, Chet Cromer, of Cromer Food Services, located in South Carolina, to discuss the exciting program that Cromer and his team have put together for the October show. To learn more about the Atlantic Coast Exposition, visit www.atlanticcoastexpo.com          

Everyone in the OCS business has heard about the popular Technician Training and Equipment Sales Trade Show from Holiday House Distributing. This year's event is more attractive than ever, offering training at a whole new level – for OCS technicians and now – operators and salespeople. From humble beginnings in 2019, the 2025 spring session attracted 140 technicians from 73 companies. The fall session of the show, slated for September 29th to October 2nd in Frisco, Texas, is shaping up to be a blockbuster event - as the show has added a sales training component, led by Automatic Merchandiser's Vending & OCS Nation podcast host, Bob Tullio. In this episode, Tullio talks with the brainchild of the show, Barbara Russell, vice president of sales and marketing at Holiday House Distributing, about why the show offers OCS operators and OCS technicians an opportunity to learn directly from the industry’s leading equipment manufacturers in a series of small group training sessions. The addition of an OCS sales track takes the show to a new level. "I am excited to be leading the new sales training component of the program – delivering a presentation on the afternoon of September 29th.  In that presentation, I will be offering proven business development techniques, consultive selling, storytelling, overcoming objections, successful follow up, plus proven closing strategies – all OCS oriented," said Tullio. "Much of the content will come from the online course I developed for NAMA – "Selling Convenience Services," which has been utilized by some of the industry’s top operators. There will be significant takeaways for operators and their sales reps who attend, both collateral materials and actionable concepts. Tullio also talks about the benefits of the show with David Henchel, president/CEO of Corporate Coffee Systems, Joanna Kim Choi, national account manager at Bevi, Brian Zakeski, national sales manager at Follett and Brian Cook, corporate technical manager at Associated Services.  The show will also feature sales oriented presentations from every supplier attending, plus a presentation on coffee from industry veteran Tom Bauer and a water presentation from Anastasia Covan from Vivreau.     

While everyone in the beverage business has heard of Gatorade and Powerade, there always seems to be room for a new contender in the isotonic beverage category. With a new distribution deal - Launch Hydrate has arrived. You may remember tasting Launch Hydrate as you walked into the 2025 NAMA Show. Josh Rosenberg of Forward Thinkers was side by side with the company’s COO, Dillon Houstoun, serving up Launch Hydrate to grateful convention goers.  In this episode of Automatic Merchandiser’s Vending & OCS Nation Podcast, Bob Tullio talks to Houstoun and Rosenberg about the company’s unique formula for success: the beverage, the strategy, why it’s working, where it’s going, and how operators can capitalize by selling the product in workplaces and distributing Launch Hydrate to concessions -- that critical last mile. One other note of interest: while convenience stores are the typical route to consumers for a beverage, Launch Hydrate is finding momentum in youth sports, winning loyalty with parents (today’s workplace customers) and young athletes (tomorrow’s customers), who are all attracted to a better hydration solution. 

It started as a side gig to make some extra money, but after a while, Ryan Harrington realized that he loved the vending business. As it turns out, his investment connected him to love on many levels, including a life partner and co-CEO – his wife Michelle. In this episode of Automatic Merchandiser’s Vending & OCS Nation podcast, host Bob Tullio brings you a conversation with Ryan Harrington, Founder and CEO of Royal ReFresh in Portland. You’ll hear about his home-grown approach, utilizing strong community roots to help build his business. He’s expansion-minded – not only in the Northwest, but also in Las Vegas, where his company has now opened a branch. Harrington enjoys mentoring new operators and is very active in NAMA. He was part of the team that brought you the 2025 NAMA Show. He’s a very levelheaded guy, but you may have seen his recent LinkedIn post where he got a little fired up about all the bogus online claims about the vending business being the ticket to passive income – an easy route to riches. He knows it’s work. In fact, he got started in vending by investing in one of those business opportunity programs himself, involving Red Bull-branded vending machines. He tells us how he managed to make it work. A side note: The business opportunity with Red Bull machines had quite an impact on his life. It led him into the convenience services business, which he loves, and it facilitated the connection to his co-CEO and life partner, his wife, Michelle, whom he met at a Red Bull-sponsored event. The Royal ReFresh story is a good one and especially valuable for the many industry newcomers, who can only hope that their story will be laden with similar success. Harrington offers some suggestions on what it takes to scale a business and keep moving to the next level.  

From the discovery of explorer Ernest Shackleton’s ship in Antarctica, to the theme of the presidential inauguration, “endurance” is a recurring word that hits home for operators when they reflect on what they have dealt with over the years. The word certainly resonated with Bob Tullio, host of Automatic Merchandiser's Vending & OCS Nation podcast. In this episode, he speaks with numerous industry leaders -- operators and suppliers -- to get their take on endurance.  Fresh off a trip from Antarctica, Tullio tells his story of endurance -- a riveting 37-year ride in the convenience services business that he and his partners still reflect on with amazement.  Lots of industry people are featured and mentioned in this podcast, so don't miss it. Among them, Tom Steuber, Craig Hesch, Mark Kronenberg, Pete Tullio, Jon Fishman, Larry Deagon, Orrin Huebner, C.J. Recher, Carla Balakgie, Jennifer Ridnour, Jim Brinton, Ryan Harrington, Kailin McCauley Genton, Bill McCauley, Justin Fishman, Lance Deagon, Paul Tullio and Arthur Siller. Don't miss the related article in the June/July issue of Automatic Merchandiser magazine. Here is a review from my editor, Linda Becker. “It's a humdinger.”       

What is Josh Rosenberg up to now? It is question Josh hears, especially when he is not in the industry's spotlight, where he has spent so much time as a high profile player in and around convenience services. Bottom line: He's back.  In this episode of Automatic Merchandiser's Vending & OCS Nation podcast, host Bob Tullio sits down with Josh Rosenberg to talk about his 30 year industry journey and new family business, Forward Thinkers, a consulting firm and a dream come true for him. Here is an insight sample from Rosenberg, when Tullio asked him what small operators need to do to land bigger accounts. "This isn't a pity story for me, but I grew up on the streets. I went in and out of homes and didn't have the best upbringing. What I really was was undereducated. I didn't have the experience and the exposure. I walked into Coke as a merchandiser because they were hiring for six weeks during the Kentucky Derby and I needed to pay for school because somebody encouraged me to go to college or you're not going to ever get off the streets. But I was failing in college. I was making more money as a merchandiser and I was perfectly happy to be there until I saw somebody in a suit, driving a company vehicle that looked like they made a hell of a lot of money and I knew they weren't doing as good a job as I could," he said. "And when I kept going in begging for that job and they wouldn't give it to me, somebody finally pulled me aside and said, if you want that job, you gotta act like that job. Meaning, dress like it, behave like it, and work towards it. Not much different for a small operator. If you want that account, your brand has to look like it, it has to feel like it, and you have to present like that." There are plenty of good insights in this podcast from a man who has seen ups and downs in business, but has now combined a young, tech savvy team that includes his sons, with his many years of business experience, to offer something powerful for both operators and suppliers.   

With all the consolidation this industry has seen – podcast host Bob Tullio asks, what is drawing the huge crowds at the NAMA Show? He thinks it's the newcomers - new operators who are highly motivated – intrigued by the promise of giant revenue (often driven by Tik Tok videos), but extremely excited by the technology. In this episode of Automatic Merchandiser’s Vending & OCS Nation,  Tullio brings you more convention floor interviews with some big names and some up and coming operators, as he discusses the latest trends and innovations in the convenience services industry – some excellent insights from the 2025 NAMA Show. The conversation highlights the influx of newcomers to the industry, the importance of technology and smart markets, and the need for operators to adapt to post-pandemic challenges. Various industry leaders share their experiences and thoughts on the future of the industry, emphasizing the significance of networking and collaboration. As for the groundswell of new operators, Tullio notes the following: "There was an easy way to find the many newcomers to the industry – just go visit one of the many smart market vendors, and you could see them asking questions and placing orders. There is no question that the 2025 NAMA Show shined a big spotlight on smart markets, and the technology is a major reason why newcomers are flocking to the convenience services industry. It is easy to get started and to look like an established player, if you have a strong website and some capital. This extreme interest in smart markets by new operators, will only result in strong smart market growth, even more entrants among smart market suppliers and ultimately, lower prices – as the larger, established operators jump on board – as painful as it might be, to shelve existing equipment that is working just perfectly."

As usual, podcast host Bob Tullio worked the 2025 NAMA convention floor with a microphone in hand, talking to a wide variety of operators. While they may have come to Las Vegas with different objectives, they all agreed that the show was a fine display of what the industry has to offer. Tullio admits that after golfing for three days before the show with David “Hollywood” Henchel, Jim “Dutton” Evans and Rick “The Duke” Dutkiewicz, he was exhausted and had less money in his pocket. You can read all about in his Best of OCS column entitled - Lessons from a pre-NAMA Show 'retreat' with three industry leaders. - published on May 14th. As for NAMA show - record attendance – huge convention floor – signs that the industry is moving in the right direction. At each show, there is always a theme – a defining characteristic of what is being offered. We’ve seen K-cup madness - pod-mania – bean to cup brewer fest – but this year – as one operator pointed out – it is all about smart coolers – with ambient temperature, frozen and even hot food add-ons. 2025 is the year of the smart cooler at the NAMA Show – with over 25 varieties on the convention floor. In this edition of Automatic Merchandiser’s Vending & OCS Nation podcast, Tullio spoke to several operators and some suppliers – asking them about their overall impressions of the show, what blew them away – or at least impressed them and finally - five years after the start of the pandemic, what do operators need to do to succeed?

You may end up listening to this on your way to the 2025 NAMA Show in Las Vegas – on the plane, in a taxi or hanging out in the lobby of your hotel before the show starts up on May 7th. That is the perfect scenario, because today’s episode offers some valuable advice about the 2025 Show – in addition to "wear comfortable shoes." In this episode of Automatic Merchandiser’s Vending & OCS Nation, the podcast for the convenience services industry, host Bob Tullio is focused on seven suppliers who you need to connect with if you are an operator attending the show. As Tullio notes, "At every NAMA show, several suppliers sign up to have a professional video interview done with me, working on behalf of Automatic Merchandiser and Vending Market Watch, right from the convention floor. I find that those companies always have a great story to tell about their products and services – this year is no exception." Tullio talks to those seven suppliers, asking the question, "Why is your company a "must see" supplier. In this episode, Tullio has a request of his listeners.  "When you see me on the convention floor doing videos at 365 Retail Markets – booth 1347, Cantaloupe - booth 1839, Pro Watch Solutions - booth 2309, Televend - booth 2723, Launch Hydrate booth -1476 and speaking on camera with Steve Orlando of Fixturelite and Josh Rosenberg of Forward Thinkers, stop by to say hello and be sure to watch for those videos when they are release and published in the coming weeks."

After 14 years as president and CEO of NAMA, Carla understands the operator mindset and always has the best interests of NAMA members at the top of her priority list. As Carla Balakgie approaches her last NAMA show as president and CEO of the organization, it is a good time for her to reflect on the last 14 years at the helm of the successful industry organization. In this episode of Automatic Merchandiser’s Vending & OCS Nation, the podcast for the convenience services industry, it’s Part II of Bob Tullio’s interview with Carla Balakgie. If you missed Part I on April 1st, it’s ok, listen to today’s episode now and go back to hear the great conversation from Part I at your convenience – and it was a great conversation as Carla discussed her 14-year journey as president and CEO of NAMA. She talked about advocacy – what operators need to do to succeed and the industry’s proactive approach to improve their image and increase revenue opportunities. Tullio also interviewed key industry leaders who shared their perspectives on the impact of Carla Balakgie, including Craig Hesch of AH Management, Pete Tullio of Gourmet Coffee Service and Tom Steuber of Associated Services. In this episode – an insightful interview - Carla looks back at the people who helped her succeed at NAMA – she gives us the secret sauce recipe – she talks about technology – industry newcomers, her legacy and so much more. Of course, Tullio spoke to some other industry heavyweights, who shared their perspective on Carla’s positive and long-lasting impact. For operators, suppliers and anyone in business who wants to get a glimpse inside the mind of a proven leader – an inspirational leader – this is a must listen. If you don’t know Carla that well, you will see why she is so successful. Her combination of professionalism and charm is a winning combination.  

Based on the industry’s growth – the big comeback underway in just about every segment of the convenience services industry and the huge success of the most recent conventions – Chicago in 2022 – Atlanta in 2023 – record attendance at Dallas in 2024 – there is a lot of excitement brewing about the 2025 NAMA show and the return of the show to Las Vegas. In this episode of Automatic Merchandiser & VendingMarketWatch's Vending & OCS Nation, the podcast for the convenience services industry - presented in cooperation with the National Automatic Merchandising Association - the industry organization for convenience services, it’s a preview at of the upcoming NAMA Show in Las Vegas – May 7th to 9th at the Las Vegas convention center. Bob Tullio talked to some of the architects of the event - David Marler from 365 Retail Markets, Ryan Harrington, Founder and CEO of Royal ReFresh– both on the trade show advisory committee, and Kristen Griffith, CMP Griffith, Vice President, Programs & Services at NAMA. The podcast guests talk about why the NAMA Show is a must attend for any serious operator, plus – how the show has impacted their businesses. There is also a great deal of buzz around the keynote speaker, Oz Pearlman, world-renowned mentalist.

With extensive experience behind her, Carla Balakgie hit the ground running when she was named President and CEO of NAMA 14 years ago. With Carla moving on to her next chapter after this year, the convenience services organization has big shoes to fill.  In this episode of Automatic Merchandiser’s Vending & OCS Nation, the podcast for the convenience services industry, host Bob Tullio sat down with Carla to talk about her journey and her perspective from the industry’s top spot.  Much of the conversation centers on advocacy, dodging legislative landmines and the industry's proactive approach to improve their image and increase revenue opportunities for operators and suppliers. Tullio also interviewed key industry leaders who shared their perspectives on the impact of Carla Balakgie, including Craig Hesch (AH Management), Pete Tullio (Gourmet Coffee Service) and Tom Steuber (Associated Services). 

The founder of Evergreen Refreshments, Avanti Markets and more, likes to say that if you are not growing, you are coasting, and if you are coasting, you are probably going downhill. There is no coasting for Jim Brinton. Even after selling Avanti to 365 Retail Markets, Brinton loves to see his businesses grow. It clearly drives him. In this episode of Automatic Merchandiser’s Vending & OCS Nation, the podcast for the convenience services industry, it’s Part II of podcast host Bob Tullio’s interview with Jim Brinton. Brinton is a humble man, but he is proud of the success he has achieved through hard work, innovation and risk taking. He talks about the importance of keeping the micro market concept fresh, the key people who have helped him succeed, critical advice for new operators, his outlook for 2025 and of course, his secret sauce recipe – a work in progress. Mentioned in this two-part podcast: Dean Prather of Quality Vending & Coffee Co. Mark Stein from Mark Vend Company, Unified Strategies Group, Craig Kushner of Monumental Vending Inc, Kevin Brinton from Evergreen Refreshments, Arthur Siller from Evergreen Refreshments, Vistar, Barry Rosenberg of VENDING ONE INC, Scott Phillips, Mark Dieffenbach from The Hershey Company and Elyssa Steiner of Cantaloupe Inc. Tullio said he hopes this podcast will inspire the next Jim Brinton out there to take their great idea to the next level.  

Jim Brinton brought the micro market to convenience services. Some operators have told him that he not only transformed the industry - but he also saved it. What we have been focusing on recently is industry giants – movers and shakers, including Matthew Marsh of First Class Vending and Judson Kleinman of Corporate Essentials. Jim Brinton is in that “industry giant category" as both an operator and a supplier. There are many great stories in the convenience services industry. In this episode of Automatic Merchandiser’s Vending & OCS Nation, you will hear one of the best of all – the story of Jim Brinton of Evergreen Refreshments and of course, Avanti Markets. He has truly revolutionized our industry – he introduced us to the micro market – the start of unattended retail. Host Bob Tullio talks to Jim about his journey – how he became an operator and how his desire to find something better than vending, drove him to become a major industry innovator. 

Podcast host Bob Tullio was pleased by the amount of positive feedback he received from Part I of this episode – “Judson Kleinman – Focused on improving corporate culture for his clients and employees - Part I - His journey.” Part II takes a closer look at Kleinman, the entrepreneur. In this episode of Automatic Merchandiser’s & Vending & OCS Nation, the podcast for the convenience services industry, you will hear Part II of the podcast - "Judson Kleinman has plenty of reasons to be smiling,” Podcast host Bob Tullio covers a lot of ground with Kleinman, including: Courageous decision making Overcoming business challenges Why he does not operate micro markets or vending A focus on pantry service His outlook and advice on OCS Dealing with a cyberattack The off and on relationship with Keurig  The secret sauce at Corporate Essentials Life after selling to Canteen The next chapter Judson’s own love story Enjoy this conversation with a legendary industry veteran who has some great content to share.