Claim OwnershipZach Abramowitz is Legally Disrupted
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This is a podcast for the people who want to understand and shape the future of the law.
Hey there, I'm Zach Abramowitz and I am Legally Disrupted! 15 years ago, my legal career was disrupted by tech.
Today, I'm advising the some of the most influential legal service providers in the world on their AI strategy and investing in some of the promising #legalAI startups. Every week, I talk to the builders, founders, operators, and decision-makers driving change in a legal ecosystem being reshaped by AI. We don't just revel in the gloriousness of AI -- we do that too! But, we also break down complex ideas and separate signal from noise. Our content focuses on what’s real, what matters, and what everyone else is missing. So what are you waiting for? Let's get disrupted!
56 Episodes
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What does it actually look like to go from practicing law to building the future of legal AI? In this episode, Zach speaks with Kyle Poe, former Big Law partner and now a leader at Legora, about his unconventional path from litigation to legal tech. Kyle shares how early frustrations with outdated legal workflows pushed him to build internal tools, why generative AI changed everything, and what it really takes to break into the legal AI space today. They also dive into how billing models are evolving, the emergence of the “legal engineer,” and why relationships and adaptability may matter more than ever in an AI-driven legal industry.
In this episode:
How Kyle transitioned from Big Law to a leading role in legal AI
Why generative AI is a true inflection point for legal practice
The emergence of the “legal engineer” and new career paths for lawyers
What lawyers get wrong about breaking into legal tech—and how to do it right
How AI is shifting legal careers toward relationships, adaptability, and high-agency work
Learn More:
Kyle - https://legora.com/blog/a-window-of-opportunity-the-lawyer-rewiring-legal-practice-for-the-ai-age
Zach - https://www.legallydisrupted.com/
Follow Along:
Kyle - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jkylepoe
Zach - linkedin.com/in/zachabramowitz
Zach Abramowitz sits down with Josh Schmerling, partner at Zirkin & Schmerling and co-founder of LawPro.ai, to explore how building technology inside a law firm is reshaping personal injury practice. Josh shares how an internal tool for processing medical records evolved into a broader litigation platform, and what it means to commercialize a product while still running a high-volume plaintiff’s firm. The conversation dives into product-market fit, adoption dynamics, and how tech, combined with private equity, could fundamentally change the competitive landscape of PI law.
In this episode:
How an internal tool became a market-facing legal tech product
The advantages (and tensions) of building software inside a law firm
What drives real product-market fit in legal tech
Adoption trends across personal injury firms
The role of private equity in reshaping the PI ecosystem
Learn More:
Josh - https://www.lawpro.ai/team/josh-schmerling
Zach - https://www.legallydisrupted.com/
Follow Along:
Josh - https://www.linkedin.com/in/josh-schmerling-287489ab
Zach - linkedin.com/in/zachabramowitz
What are in-house lawyers actually doing with AI right now? In this episode, Zach speaks with Jarryd Strydom, co-founder of Sandstone, about what he learned from a cross-country road trip meeting with corporate legal teams across the United States. They discuss how legal departments are experimenting with AI tools, the growing “build vs. buy” debate as lawyers explore vibe-coding their own workflows, and why legacy legal tech infrastructure may struggle in an AI-native world.
In this episode:
What in-house lawyers across the U.S. are actually doing with AI today
The rise of “vibe coding” and the new build vs. buy debate for legal teams
Why traditional CLM systems often fail to capture real business context
How AI could finally unlock institutional legal knowledge inside companies
Why legal teams are being pushed to adopt AI as other departments move faster
How AI might reshape the structure of in-house legal teams
What junior lawyers should be thinking about in an AI-driven legal market
Learn More:
Jarryd - https://www.event.law.com/corpcounsel-gcc-east/speaker/2017419/jarryd-strydom
Zach - https://www.legallydisrupted.com/
Follow Along:
Jarryd - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jarrydstrydom
Zach - linkedin.com/in/zachabramowitz
Just in time for Legal Week, Zach sits down Cosmonauts founder and legal tech insider Timo Karakashev for a wide-ranging conversation about where the legal AI market really stands. Timo shares what he’s seeing on the ground: growing demand for “premium” legal AI tools, dissatisfaction with generic enterprise AI solutions, and a market that’s still in the very early innings of adoption.
In this episode:
Why legal AI tools like Harvey and Legora feel “premium” compared to generic AI
The growing dissatisfaction with enterprise AI tools like Copilot
Why demand for intelligence in legal work far exceeds human supply
How legal AI adoption differs across regions, including Australia
The debate over whether AI will disrupt or strengthen the SaaS model
Why IP law has historically lagged in tech adoption and why that’s changing
How legal tech conferences are evolving to focus more on practitioners and operators
Why innovation at the top of the market could eventually improve access to justice
Learn More:
Timo - https://www.crunchbase.com/person/timo-karakashev
Zach - https://www.legallydisrupted.com/
Follow Along:
Timo - https://uk.linkedin.com/in/timo-from-cosmonauts
Zach - linkedin.com/in/zachabramowitz
What if AI doesn’t just replace software, but shifts the value of a tech company from the product to the people? That’s the real shift hiding in plain sight. As the models get better and cheaper, the product layer starts to collapse. And when that happens, the leverage doesn’t sit with whoever licensed the right platform. It sits with the lawyers who understand what’s happening underneath, the ones building their own workflows, configuring the models directly, and rethinking how legal work is produced in the first place. This isn’t about another AI tool. It’s about agency. It’s about moving from billing time to designing systems. And the gap forming right now between lawyers who experiment and lawyers who hesitate is going to matter a lot more than the next headline valuation.
In this episode:
We’re probably focused on the wrong layer
As the models improve, the product matters less
Leverage is shifting toward lawyers willing to build
This isn’t about adopting AI - it’s about agency
The gap forming right now is going to compound
References:
Legal Quants - https://www.legalquants.com/
Learn More:
Zach - https://www.legallydisrupted.com/
Follow Along:
Jamie - https://hk.linkedin.com/in/jttso
Raymond - https://au.linkedin.com/in/raymond-sun-64576a122
Zach - linkedin.com/in/zachabramowitz
What does it mean to be a valuable lawyer in the age of AI? In this episode, Zach sits down with litigator, technologist, and AI evangelist Damien Riehl to explore how legal expertise evolves, not disappears, in a world of generative models and automation. From his unique path as both a practicing attorney and self-taught coder to his widely discussed “All the Music” project, Damien argues that the future belongs to lawyers who understand systems, leverage technology, and rethink what clients actually pay for. This is a conversation about professional reinvention, leverage, and why AI may amplify - rather than replace - the best lawyers.
In this episode:
Why AI changes how lawyers deliver value, but not why they matter
The advantage of lawyers who can code (or at least think like engineers)
Damien’s “All the Music” project and what it reveals about IP systems
The difference between automation and augmentation in legal work
How litigators should think about AI tools today
Why understanding technology is becoming table stakes for legal credibility
What the next generation of high-value lawyers will look like
Learn More:
Damien - https://www.ted.com/speakers/damien_riehl
Zach - https://www.legallydisrupted.com/
Follow Along:
Damien - https://www.linkedin.com/in/damienriehl
Zach - linkedin.com/in/zachabramowitz
Zach sits down with Min-Kyu Jung, founder of Ivo, to unpack one of the most honest AI startup stories in legal tech. This episode explores what it really takes to pivot in an AI revolution, why CLM may be in trouble, and how in-house legal teams are rethinking ROI in the age of AI.
In this episode:
Why Ivo scrapped its original product to go all-in on LLMs
The “innovator’s dilemma” facing legacy CLM vendors
Why in-house legal and law firms are fundamentally different AI markets
How AI playbooks and redlining actually create ROI
The shift from “adoption” to measurable business impact
Why speed often matters more than accuracy in AI UX
How contract intelligence is becoming CLM 2.0
Learn More:
Min-Kyu - https://www.auckland.ac.nz/en/alumni/our-alumni/40-under-40/a-z-list-of-profiles/min-kyu-jung.html
Zach - https://www.legallydisrupted.com/
Follow Along:
Min-Kyu - https://www.linkedin.com/in/min-kyu-jung
Zach - linkedin.com/in/zachabramowitz
Zach checks in with second-time guest, Spellbook CEO, Scott Stevenson for a wide ranging conversation on some of the hottest topics of the day:
Why positioning AI for Legal as a two horse race is deeply flawed
The benefits of selling direct to lawyers as opposed to Chief Innovation Officers
In-house legal buyers versus law firms
BigLaw versus small and medium size law firms
How AI Startups will need to contend with the SaaSpocalypse
Learn More:
Scott - https://www.spellbook.legal/
Zach - https://www.legallydisrupted.com/
Follow Along:
Scott - https://x.com/scottastevenson?s=20
Zach - linkedin.com/in/zachabramowitz
Zach reunites with Richard Tromans of Artificial Lawyer for another wide-ranging Legal AI Adventure, breaking down what it really means now that major AI players like Anthropic are officially entering the legal market. From the impact on commoditized legal AI tools to the rise of vibe coding, agentic workflows, and the looming decline of legacy legal tech implementations, Zach and Richard explore where legal AI is heading, and where lawyers should (and shouldn’t) be placing their bets as the industry moves toward an AI 2.0 era.
In this episode:
Will LLMs Kill LegalAI or Legacy SaaS
Vibe coding vs enterprise software
Generic AI versus Legal Applications
Implementations are a grift
The limits of automation
What will AI 2.0 mean for lawyers?
Learn More:
Zach - https://www.legallydisrupted.com/
Richard - tromansconsulting.com, artificiallawyer.com
Follow Along:
Zach - linkedin.com/in/zachabramowitz
Richard - linkedin.com/in/artificiallawyer, https://x.com/ArtificialLawya
Zach announces that, for the first time since ChatGPT launched, he's investing in a legal AI startup. In this episode, he's joined by Nick Fleisher, CEO of Sandstone, to unpack why in-house legal teams, not law firms, may be the biggest winners of the AI era. Drawing on Nick's background at McKinsey where he advised law firms on AI, the conversation explores why legacy tools are failing lawyers and how AI can solve a problem that plagues in-house teams: working seamlessly with their business without slowing them down and being a bottleneck.
In this episode:
Why Zach decided to invest in a legal AI startup now
What in-house legal teams actually need from AI
Why CLM tools struggle with adoption and ROI
How AI changes legal’s relationship with the business
Measuring success beyond “time to contract”
Why vertical legal software beats generic AI tools
What makes Sandstone different from Harvey, Legora, and CLMs
References:
$10M Seed Round Announcement
Learn More:
Zach - legallydisrupted.com
Nick - sandstone.com
Follow Along:
Zach - linkedin.com/in/zachabramowitz
Nick - https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicholas-fleisher
Zach speaks with Cecilia Ziniti, founder and CEO of GC AI, about why in-house legal teams are often ahead of law firms when it comes to adopting AI - and what that signals for the future of the profession. Drawing on her experience as a former general counsel and AI leader, Cecilia explains why legal AI must be purpose-built for real workflows, how trust and precision shape adoption, and why lawyers who learn to work with AI will gain a lasting edge.
In this episode:
Why in-house legal teams are leading AI adoption
The limits of generic AI tools for legal work
What lawyers actually need from AI systems
Trust, accuracy, and citations in legal AI
How AI is reshaping legal workflows and roles
What it means to be an “AI-native” lawyer
Learn More:
Zach - legallydisrupted.com
Cecilia - https://gc.ai/company/about
Follow Along:
Zach - linkedin.com/in/zachabramowitz
Cecilia - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ceciliaziniti
Zach sits down with NetDocuments Chief Product Officer Dan Hauck to unpack how AI is truly being used inside law firms and in-house legal teams today - from large-scale document profiling to agentic assistants that search, summarize, and edit directly within the DMS. Recorded live at ND Inspire conference, Dan explains why lightweight models are unlocking new automation, how in-house teams are often leading on adoption, and why the real ROI of legal AI goes beyond efficiency to include better onboarding, less isolation, and more confident decision-making for lawyers at every level.
In This Episode
The biggest changes Dan has witnessed after 8 years of the Inspire conference
How firms are using AI at scale — not just on pilot use cases
Why automated document profiling is now possible across millions of docs
Understanding small models vs. large models in legal workflows
How AI pipelines classify, extract, and enrich metadata instantly
New use cases emerging inside the DMS (repapering, diligence, discovery, onboarding)
Why in-house teams are often ahead of firms in AI adoption
How agentic AI assistants reduce loneliness and cognitive overload
The ROI debate: real numbers vs. intangible benefits
What lawyers gain: better focus, faster context loading, and stronger client service
Why this moment feels like a once-in-a-generation shift in legal technology
Learn More:
Zach - legallydisrupted.com
Dan - https://www.netdocuments.com/company/our-people/dan-hauck/
Follow Along:
Zach - linkedin.com/in/zachabramowitz
Dan - https://www.linkedin.com/in/danhauck
Zach talks with Jen Berrent, former WeWork executive and founder of Covenant, an AI-first law firm reimagining how deals get done. They dive deep into what it means to build a law firm from the ground up around artificial intelligence — not as a tool, but as the foundation. Jen shares her perspective on why too much work still runs through Big Law, how AI is transforming the middle tier of legal work, and what it takes to balance human expertise with machine efficiency.
In this episode:
What an “AI-first” law firm actually looks like
How Covenant is redesigning legal workflows from scratch
The problem with Big Law’s “too much work, too few alternatives” model
Why reading comprehension is AI’s legal superpower
Building client trust in the age of automation
How AI can accelerate deals — without sacrificing rigor
The difference between a “relationship ramp” and a “SaaS snowball”
The challenges (and advantages) of raising funding in legal AI
Lessons from Robin AI’s struggles — and why clarity of business model matters
Why this is a once-in-a-generation moment for lawyers who want to innovate
Learn More:
Zach – legallydisrupted.com
Jen – https://covenant.co/about
Follow Along:
Zach – linkedin.com/in/zachabramowitz
Jen – https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenniferberrent
Zach sits down with Harvey cofounder Gabe Pereyra to talk about what changed after “Attention Is All You Need,” why partners - not juniors - are driving Harvey’s adoption, and how AI is teaching law firms to learn faster than ever.
In this episode:
The origin story of Harvey and how it became the “Dallas Cowboys of Legal Tech”
Lessons from the early days of AI at Google Brain and DeepMind
Why the real opportunity isn’t automation — it’s amplification
How top law firms are already using AI for high-level strategic work
The emerging hybrid model of AI + human legal reasoning
Why firm size and structure could shift dramatically in the next decade
Rethinking ROI: morale, retention, and client trust as key performance drivers
How Harvey is helping firms pitch, collaborate, and win new business
The future of AI-first law firms — from pricing models to client partnerships
Learn More:
Zach - https://www.legallydisrupted.com/
Gabe - https://www.harvey.ai/blog/author/gabe-pereyra
Follow Along:
Zach - linkedin.com/in/zachabramowitz
Gabe - https://www.linkedin.com/in/gabepereyra
Zach and Richard delve into the recent challenges faced by Robin AI, a pioneering legal tech company that has laid off staff and is seeking a buyer due to disappointing growth. They explore the significance of this news within the broader AI and legal tech industry, discussing whether Robin AI's struggles signal larger issues in the AI market.
In this episode:
Robin AI's Struggles
Personal Connections and Reflections
Speculations and Broader Implications
Comparing AI Legal Tech Companies
Legal Experts in Tech Companies
Investment in AI-Driven Legal Services
The Importance of Expertise with AI
Legal Innovators London Event Preview
The Future of AI in Law Firms
Learn More:
Zach - https://www.legallydisrupted.com/
Richard - tromansconsulting.com, artificiallawyer.com
Follow Along:
Zach - linkedin.com/in/zachabramowitz
Richard - linkedin.com/in/artificiallawyer, https://x.com/ArtificialLawya
In Episode 30 of 'Legally Disrupted,' Zach engages in a thought-provoking discussion with Catherine Kemnitz, Axiom's Chief Strategy Officer. They address a LinkedIn debate on how AI will disrupt both Contract Lifecycle Management (CLM) and Alternative Legal Service Providers (ALSPs). Katherine offers insights from her extensive legal industry experience, including her tenure at Axiom and Thomson Reuters, highlighting major transactions and strategic pivots influenced by technological advancements.
In this episode:
Catherine Kemnitz's Career Journey
Axiom's Strategic Moves and Innovations
The Impact of AI on Legal Services
Generative AI and Legal Tech Evolution
AI Adoption in Legal Departments vs. Law Firms
Axiom's Approach to AI and Future Outlook
Learn More:
Zach - https://www.legallydisrupted.com/
Catherine - https://www.axiomlaw.com/about-us/our-team
Follow Along:
Zach - linkedin.com/in/zachabramowitz
Catherine - https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherinekemnitz
Zach sits down with Centari founder Kevin Walker to unpack the opportunities and obstacles of selling AI to law firms when it isn’t a generalized assistant like ChatGPT or Harvey. Kevin makes the case for why tackling highly specialized problems, such as Deal Intelligence, delivers unique, lasting value to firms.
In this episode:
Understanding Centari's Vision
Unique Market Insights and Adoption
Challenges and Opportunities in Legal Tech
Building Trust with Law Firms
Future of Legal Practices
Fried Frank Partnership
Navigating Market Noise
First Principles and Differentiation
AI Adoption in Law Firms
Reddit Thread Controversy
Building a Strong Company Culture
Learn More:
Zach - https://www.legallydisrupted.com/
Kevin - https://www.centari.com/about-us
Follow Along:
Zach - linkedin.com/in/zachabramowitz
Kevn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kpwalker1, https://x.com/_kevinwalker?lang=en
Zach and Richard break down AI-first legal services, ALSPs, and the EUDIA announcement. Asking who really owns legal AI, whether ROI even matters, and how these new firms might rewrite the rules of the industry.
In this episode:
Non-Lawyer Ownership of Law Firms
AI in Transactional Work
The Business Model of AI-First Law Firms
Measurable ROI in Legal Tech
The IKEA Catalog Scenario
AI-First Firms vs. Incumbents
Market Saturation and Future Predictions
References:
https://www.artificiallawyer.com/2025/09/03/eudia-opens-ai-augmented-law-firm-for-ma/
Learn More:
Zach - https://www.legallydisrupted.com/
Richard - tromansconsulting.com, artificiallawyer.com
Follow Along:
Zach - linkedin.com/in/zachabramowitz
Richard - linkedin.com/in/artificiallawyer, https://x.com/ArtificialLawya
In this episode of 'Legally Disrupted,' host Zach Abramowitz introduces a new recurring segment called 'Zach and Richard's Legal AI Adventure' with Richard Tromans from Artificial Lawyer. They discuss the rapid evolution in the legal tech sphere, particularly focusing on big deals and announcements from legal AI companies like Harvey and Legora. The duo debates the impact of generative AI productivity platforms on the legal market, the notion of a 'land grab' as firms race to adopt AI, and the potential for AI to become universally adopted in legal workflows. They also touch on the pricing dynamics of legal tech and the challenges faced by legacy companies in incorporating AI.
In this episode:
Summer Surge in Legal AI Deals
Generative AI Platforms for Lawyers
Market Share and Productivity Tools
Global Legal Market and Pricing Strategies
Emerging Competitors and Market Dynamics
The Battle for Legal AI Dominance
The Future of Legal Tech Giants: Mergers and Acquisitions
The Role of Investors in Legal Tech
The Importance of Specialization in Legal Tech
The Future of AI in Legal Tech: Assistants vs. Automators
Learn More:
Zach - https://www.legallydisrupted.com/
Richard - tromansconsulting.com, artificiallawyer.com
Follow Along:
Zach - linkedin.com/in/zachabramowitz
Richard - linkedin.com/in/artificiallawyer, https://x.com/ArtificialLawya
In episode 26 of 'Legally Disrupted,' host Zach Abramowitz brings us a live conversation from the Legal Innovators California Conference in San Francisco. The discussion features Chris Fisher of Myriad Ventures and Jonathan Levy of Y Combinator, two prominent investors in the legal tech space. They delve into the shifts in legal tech investments from the pre-ChatGPT era to the post-ChatGPT world, the impact of AI on legal services, and the emerging talent in the field. The investors also share insights on their investment strategies, the importance of domain expertise, and their vision for the future of legal tech.
In this episode:
Investing in Legal Tech: Pre and Post ChatGPT
The Talent Surge in Legal Tech
AI's Impact on Legal Practices
Future of AI in Legal: Opportunities and Challenges
AI in Legal Apprenticeship
AI as a Junior Associate
Investment Strategies in Legal Tech
Specialized Legal Tech Solutions
VC Model and AI Startups
Evaluating Legal Tech Startups
Productizing Legal Services
Learn More:
Chris - https://www.myriadventures.com/profile/chris-fisher
Jonathan - https://www.ycombinator.com/people
Zach - https://www.legallydisrupted.com/
Follow Along:
Chris - https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-fisher-111a9025
Jonathan - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jon-levy-b98986b3
Zach - linkedin.com/in/zachabramowitz
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