Out of Patients with Matthew Zachary

This episode of Standard Deviation features Oliver Bogler in conversation with Dr Na Zhao, a cancer biologist caught in the crossfire of science, politics, and survival. Na’s life reads like a brutal lab experiment in persistence.She grew up in China, lost her mother and aunt to breast cancer before she turned twelve, then came to the United States to chase science as both an immigrant and a survivor’s daughter. She worked two decades to reach the brink of independence as a cancer researcher, only to watch offers and grants vanish in the political chaos of 2025.Oliver brings her story into sharp focus, tracing the impossible climb toward a tenure-track position and the human cost of a system that pulls the ladder up just as people like Na reach for it. This conversation pulls back the curtain on the NIH funding crisis, the toll on early-career scientists, and what happens when personal tragedy fuels professional ambition.Listeners will walk away with a raw sense of how fragile the future of cancer research really is, and why people like Na refuse to stop climbing.RELATED LINKSDr Zhao at Baylor College of MedicineDr Zhao on LinkedInDr Zhao's Science articleIndirect Costs explained by US CongressFEEDBACKLike this episode? Rate and review Out of Patients on your favorite podcast platform. For guest suggestions or sponsorship inquiries, email podcast@matthewzachary.comSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Katie Henry has seen some things. From nonprofit bootstraps to Big Pharma boardrooms, she’s been inside the machine—and still believes we can fix it. We go deep on her winding road from folding sweaters at J.Crew to launching a vibrator-based advocacy campaign that accidentally changed the sexual health narrative in breast cancer.Katie doesn’t pull punches. She’s a born problem solver with zero tolerance for pink fluff and performative empathy. We talk survivor semantics, band camp trauma, nonprofit burnout, and why “Didi” is the grandparent alter ego you never saw coming.She’s Murphy Brown with a marimba. Veronica Sawyer in pharma. Carla Tortelli with an oncology Rolodex. And she still calls herself a learner.This is one of the most honest, hilarious, and refreshingly real conversations I’ve had. Period.RELATED LINKS:Katie Henry on LinkedInKatie Henry on ResearchGateLiving Beyond Breast CancerNational Breast Cancer CoalitionFEEDBACK:Like this episode? Rate and review Out of Patients on your favorite podcast platform. For guest suggestions or sponsorship inquiries, email podcast@matthewzachary.com.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

What happens when you hand a mic to the most extroverted, uncensored Gen Z career coach in New York? You get Olivia Battinelli—adjunct professor, student advisor, mentor, speaker, and unfiltered truth-teller on everything from invisible illness to resume crimes.We talked about growing up Jewish-Italian in Westchester, surviving the Big Four’s corporate Kool-Aid, and quitting a job after 7 months because the shower goals weren’t working out. She runs NYU Steinhardt’s internship program by day, roasts Takis and “rate my professor” trolls by night, and somehow makes room for maple syrup takes, career coaching, and a boyfriend named Dom who sounds like a supporting character from The Sopranos.She teaches kids how to talk to humans. She’s allergic to BS. And she might be the most Alexis Rose-meets-Maeve Wiley-mashup ever dropped into your feed. Welcome to her first podcast interview. It's pure gold.RELATED LINKS:Olivia Battinelli on LinkedInOlivia’s Liv It Up Coaching WebsiteOlivia on InstagramNYU Steinhardt Faculty PageFEEDBACK:Like this episode? Rate and review Out of Patients on your favorite podcast platform. For guest suggestions or sponsorship inquiries, email podcast@matthewzachary.com.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Sophie Sargent walked into the studio already owning the mic. A pandemic-era media rebel raised in New Hampshire, trained in Homeland Security (yep), and shaped by rejection, she’s built a career out of DM’ing her way into rooms and then owning them. At 25, she’s juggling chronic illness, chronic overachievement, and a generation that gets dismissed before it even speaks.We talk Lyme disease, Lyme denial, and the healthcare gaslighting that comes when you “look fine” but your body says otherwise. We dive into rejection as a career accelerant, mental health as content porn, and what it means to chase purpose without sacrificing identity. Sophie’s a former morning radio host, country music interviewer, and Boston-based creator with a real voice—and she uses it.No fake podcast voice. No daddy-daughter moment. Just two loudmouths from different planets figuring out what it means to be seen, believed, and taken seriously in a system designed to do the opposite.Spoiler: She’s smarter than I was at 25. And she’ll probably be your boss someday.RELATED LINKSSophie on InstagramSophie on YouTubeSophie on LinkedInMedium article: “Redefining Rejection”See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This episode is sponsored by Invivyd, Inc.Marc Elia is a biotech investor, the Chairman of the Board at Invivyd, and a Long COVID patient who decided to challenge the system while still stuck inside it. He’s not here for corporate platitudes, regulatory shoulder shrugs, or vaccine-era gaslighting. This is not a conversation about politics, but it's about power and choice and the right to receive care and treatment no matter your condition.In this episode, we cover everything from broken clinical pathways to meme coins and the eternal shame of being old enough to remember Eastern Airlines. Marc talks about what it means to build tools instead of just complaining, what Long COVID has done to his body and his patience, and why the illusion of “choice” in healthcare is a luxury most patients don’t have.This conversation doesn’t ask for empathy. It demands it.RELATED LINKSMarc Elia on LinkedInInvivyd Company SiteMarc’s Bio at InvivydFEEDBACKLike this episode? Rate and review Out of Patients on your favorite podcast platform. For guest suggestions or sponsorship inquiries, email podcast@matthewzachary.comSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

After years of carrying the weight of lead, Shannon and Cooper find a path out from under the darkness and into the sunlight.LEAD: how this story ends is up to us is an audio docudrama series that tells the true story of one child, his mysterious lead poisoning, and his mother's unwavering fight to keep him safe. A true story written by Shannon Burkett. Directed by Alan Taylor. Starring Merritt Wever, Alessandro Nivola, Cynthia Nixon, and Cooper Burkett.Lead was produced by Shannon Burkett. Co-produced by Jenny Maguire. Featuring Amy Acker, Tom Butler, Dennis T. Carnegie, James Carpinello, Geneva Carr, Dann Fink, Alice Kris, Adriane Lenox, Katie O’Sullivan, Greg Pirenti, Armando Riesco, Shirley Rumierk, Thom Sesma, and Lana Young. Music by Peter Salett. “Joy In Resistance” written by Abena Koomson-Davis and performed by Resistance Revival Chorus. Casting by Alaine Alldaffer and Lisa Donadio. Sound Design by Andy Kris. Recording Engineer Krissopher Chevannes.For corresponding visuals and more information on how to protect children from lead exposure please go to https://endleadpoisoning.org.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The deficits from the lead poisoning continue to intensify, Shannon channels her anger and grief into holding the people who hurt her son responsible.LEAD how this story ends is up to us is a true story written and produced by Shannon Burkett. Co-produced by Jenny Maguire. Directed by Alan Taylor. Starring Merritt Wever, Alessandro Nivola, Cynthia Nixon, and Cooper Burkett.EP4 features Eboni Booth, Sasha Eden, Kevin Kane, April Matthis, Alysia Reiner, and Mandy Siegfried. Casting by Alaine Alldaffer and Lisa Donadio. Music by Peter Salett. Sound Design by Andy Kris. Recording Engineer Krissopher Chevannes.For corresponding visuals and more information on how to protect children from lead exposure please go to https://endleadpoisoning.org.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The effects of the neurotoxin are taking their toll on Cooper as Shannon desperately tries to navigate the severity of their new reality.LEAD how this story ends is up to us is a true story written and produced by Shannon Burkett. Co-produced by Jenny Maguire. Directed by Alan Taylor. Starring Merritt Wever, Alessandro Nivola, Cynthia Nixon, and Cooper Burkett.E43 features Jenny Maguire, JD Mollison, Laith Nakli, Deirdre O’Connell, Carolyn Baeumler, Zach Shaffer, and Monique Woodley. Casting by Alaine Alldaffer and Lisa Donadio. Music by Peter Salett. Sound Design by Andy Kris. Recording Engineer Krissopher Chevannes.For corresponding visuals and more information on how to protect children from lead exposure please go to https://endleadpoisoning.org.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

As the lead wreaks havoc on Cooper's development, Shannon searches for answers. Desperate to get a handle on what was happening to her son, she grabs onto a lifeboat - nursing school. Andy tries to piece together the past to make sense of the present.LEAD how this story ends is up to us is a true story written and produced by Shannon Burkett. Co-produced by Jenny Maguire. Directed by Alan Taylor. Starring Merritt Wever, Alessandro Nivola, Cynthia Nixon, and Cooper BurkettEP2 features Keith Nobbs and Frank Wood. Music by Peter Salett. Sound Design by Andy Kris. Recording Engineer Krissopher Chevannes. Casting by Alaine Alldaffer and Lisa Donadio.For corresponding visuals and more information on how to protect children from lead exposure please go to https://endleadpoisoning.org.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

A mysterious dust fills a young family’s apartment. The truth begins to unravel when the mother gets a call from the pediatrician - the monster deep within the walls has been unleashed. LEAD how this story ends is up to us is a true story written and produced by Shannon Burkett. Co-produced by Jenny Maguire. Directed by Alan Taylor. Starring Merritt Wever, Alessandro Nivola, Cynthia Nixon, and Cooper Burkett.  EP1 features Zak Orth, Jenny Maguire, Daphne Gaines, and Micheal Gaston. Music by Peter Salett. Sound Design by Andy Kris. Recording Engineer Krissopher Chevannes. Casting by Alaine Alldaffer and Lisa Donadio.For corresponding visuals and more information on how to protect children from lead exposure please go to https://endleadpoisoning.org.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Lexi Silver is 15 years old. She lost both of her parents before she turned 11. That should tell you enough—but it doesn’t. Because Lexi isn’t here for your pity. She’s not a sob story. She’s not a trauma statistic. She’s a writer, an advocate, and one of the most emotionally intelligent people you’ll ever hear speak into a microphone.In this episode, Lexi breaks down what grief actually feels like when you’re a kid and the adults around you just don’t get it. She talks about losing her mom on Christmas morning, her dad nine months later, how the system let her down, and how Instagram trolls tell her she’s faking it for attention. She also explains why she writes, what Experience Camps gave her, how she channels anger into poems, and what to say—and not say—to someone grieving.Her life isn’t a Netflix drama. But it should be.And by the way, she’s not “so strong.” She’s just human. You’ll never forget this conversation.RELATED LINKS• Lexi on Instagram: @meet.my.grief• Buy her book: The Girl Behind Grief’s Shadow• Experience CampsFEEDBACKLike this episode? Rate and review Out of Patients on your favorite podcast platform. For guest suggestions or sponsorship inquiries, email podcast@matthewzachary.comSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Michelle Andrews built a career inside the pharma machine long before anyone knew what “DTC” meant. She helped launch Rituxan and watched Allegra commercials teach America how to ask for pills by name. Then she landed in the cancer fun house herself, stage 4 breast cancer, and learned exactly how hollow all the “journey” slide decks feel when you’re the one circling the drain.We talk about what happens when the insider becomes the customer, why pill organizers and wheat field brochures still piss her off, and how she fired doctors who couldn’t handle her will to live. You’ll hear about the dawn of pharma advertising, the pre-Google advocacy hustle, and what she wants every brand team to finally admit about patient experience.If you’ve ever wondered who decided windsurfing was the best way to sell allergy meds—or what happens when you stop caring if you make people uncomfortable—listen up.RELATED LINKSMichelle Andrews on LinkedInTrinity Life Sciences – Strategic AdvisoryJade Magazine – Ticking Time Bombs ArticleNIHCM Foundation – Breast Cancer StoryFEEDBACKLike this episode? Rate and review Out of Patients on your favorite podcast platform. For guest suggestions or sponsorship inquiries, email podcast@matthewzachary.com.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Dr. Anne Marie Morse walks into the studio like a one-woman Jersey Broadway show and leaves behind the best damn TED Talk you’ve never heard. She’s a neurologist, sleep medicine doc, narcolepsy expert, founder of D.A.M.M. Good Sleep, and full-time myth buster in a white coat. We talk about why sleep isn’t a luxury, why your mattress does matter, and how melatonin is the new Flintstones vitamin with a marketing budget. We unpack the BS around sleep hygiene, blow up the medical gaslighting around “disorders,” and dig into how a former aspiring butterfly became one of the loudest voices for patient-centered science. Also: naps, kids, burnout, CPAPs, co-sleeping, airport pods, the DeLorean, and Carl Sagan. If you think you’re getting by on five hours of sleep and vibes, you’re not. This episode will make you want to take a nap—and then call your doctor.RELATED LINKSdammgoodsleep.com: https://www.dammgoodsleep.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anne-marie-morse-753b2821/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dammgoodsleepDocWire News Author Page: https://www.docwirenews.com/author/anne-marie-morseSleep Review Interview: https://sleepreviewmag.com/practice-management/marketing/word-of-mouth/sleep-advocacy-anne-marie-morse/Geisinger Bio: https://providers.geisinger.org/provider/anne-marie-morse/756868SWHR Profile: https://swhr.org/team/anne-marie-morse-do-faasm/FEEDBACKLike this episode? Rate and review Out of Patients on your favorite podcast platform. For guest suggestions or sponsorship inquiries, email podcast@matthewzachary.com.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Gigi Robinson grew up with Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, a disease that turns your joints into overcooked spaghetti. Instead of letting it sideline her, she built a career out of telling the truth about invisible illness. We talk about what it takes to grow up faster than you should, why chronic illness is the worst unpaid internship, and how she turned her story into a business. You’ll hear about her days schlepping to physical therapy before sunrise, documenting the sterile absurdity of waiting rooms, and finding purpose in the mess. Gigi’s not interested in pity or polished narratives. She wants you to see what resilience really looks like, even when it’s ugly. If you think you know what an influencer does, think again. This conversation will challenge your assumptions about work, health, and what it means to be seen.RELATED LINKSGigi Robinson Website: https://www.gigirobinson.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gigirobinsonInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/itsgigirobinsonTikTok: @itsgigirobinsonA Kids Book About Chronic Illness: https://akidsco.com/products/a-kids-book-about-chronic-illnessFEEDBACKLike this episode? Rate and review Out of Patients on your favorite podcast platform. For guest suggestions or sponsorship inquiries, email podcast@matthewzachary.comSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Episode Description:If you’ve ever wondered what happens when a Bronx-born pediatric nurse with stage 4 colon cancer survives, raises a kid, becomes a policy shark, and fights like hell for the ignored, meet Vanessa Ghigliotty. She’s not inspirational. She’s a bulldozer. We go way back—like pre-Stupid Cancer back—when there was no “young adult cancer movement,” just a handful of pissed-off survivors building something out of nothing. This episode is personal. Vanessa and I built the plane while flying it. She fought to be heard, showed up in chemo dragging her kid to IEP meetings, and never stopped screaming for the rest of us to get what we needed. We talk war stories, progress, side-eyeing advocacy fads, TikTok activism, gatekeeping, policy wins, and why being loud is still necessary. And yeah—she’s a damn good mom. Probably a better one than you. You’ll laugh. You’ll cry. You’ll want to scream into a pillow. Come for the nostalgia. Stay for the righteous anger and iced coffee.RELATED LINKSVanessa on LinkedInColorectal Cancer Alliance: Vanessa’s StoryZenOnco Interview with VanessaFEEDBACKLike this episode? Rate and review Out of Patients on your favorite podcast platform. For guest suggestions or sponsorship inquiries, email podcast@matthewzachary.com.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Risa Arin doesn’t just talk about health literacy. She built the damn platform. As founder and CEO of XpertPatient.com (yes, expert with no E), Risa’s taking a wrecking ball to how cancer education is delivered. A Cornell alum, cancer caregiver, and ex-agency insider who once sold Doritos to teens, she now applies that same marketing muscle to helping patients actually understand the garbage fire that is our healthcare system. We talk about why she left the “complacent social safety” of agency life, how her mom unknowingly used her own site during treatment, what it’s like to pitch cancer education after someone pitches warm cookies, and why healthcare should come with a map, a translator, and a refund policy. Risa brings data, chutzpah, and Murphy Brown energy to the conversation—and you’ll leave smarter, angrier, and maybe even a little more hopeful.RELATED LINKS• XpertPatient.com• Risa Arin on LinkedIn• XpertPatient & Antidote Partnership• XpertPatient Featured on KTLA• 2024 Health Award BioFEEDBACKLike this episode? Rate and review Out of Patients on your favorite podcast platform. For guest suggestions or sponsorship inquiries, email podcast@matthewzachary.com.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Dr. Jamie Wells is back—and this time, she brought a book. We cover everything from biomedical design screwups to the glorified billing software known as the EHR. Jamie's new book, A Clinical Lens on Pediatric Engineering, is a masterclass in what happens when you stop treating kids like small, drunk adults and start designing medicine around actual human factors. We talk about AI in pediatric radiology, why drug repurposing might save lives faster than biotech IPOs, and the absurdity of thinking one-size-fits-all in healthcare still works.Jamie’s a former physician, a health policy disruptor, a bioethicist, an MIT director, and a recovering adjunct professor. She’s also a unicorn. We dig into the wonk, throw shade at bad design, and channel our inner Lisa Simpsons. This one’s for anyone who ever wondered why kids’ hospitals feel like hell and why “make it taste like bubblegum” might be the most important clinical innovation of all time. You’ll laugh, you’ll learn, and you might get angry enough to fix something.RELATED LINKSJamie Wells on LinkedInBook: A Clinical Lens on Pediatric Engineering (Amazon)Book on SpringerDrexel BioMed ProfileGlobal Blockchain Business CouncilJamie’s HuffPost ArticlesFEEDBACKLike this episode? Rate and review Out of Patients on your favorite podcast platform. For guest suggestions or sponsorship inquiries, email podcast@matthewzachary.comSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Erica Campbell walked away from corporate life, took a hard left from the British Embassy, and found her calling writing checks for families nobody else sees. As Executive Director of Pinky Swear Foundation, she doesn’t waste time on fluff. Her team pays rent, fills gas tanks, and gives sick kids' parents the one thing they don’t have—time. Then, breast cancer hit her. She became the patient. Wrote a book about it. Didn’t sugarcoat a damn thing. We talk about parking fees, grief, nonprofit burnout, and how the hell you decide which families get help and which don't. Also: AOL handles, John Hughes, and letters from strangers that make you cry. Erica is part Punky Brewster, part Rosie the Robot, and part Lisa Simpson—with just enough GenX Long Island sarcasm to make it all land. This one sticks.RELATED LINKSPinky Swear FoundationThe Mastectomy I Always Wanted (Book)Erica on LinkedInThink & Link: Erica Campbell“Like the Tale of a Starfish” - Blog Post“Cancer Diagnosis, Messy Life, Financial Support” - Blog PostFEEDBACKLike this episode? Rate and review Out of Patients on your favorite podcast platform. For guest suggestions or sponsorship inquiries, email podcast@matthewzachary.com.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Allyson with a Y. Ocean with two Ls. And zero chill when it comes to changing the face of cancer care. Dr. Allyson Ocean has been quietly—loudly—at the center of every major cancer breakthrough, nonprofit board, and science-backed gut punch you didn’t know you needed to hear. In this episode, she joins me in-studio for a conversation two decades in the making. We talk twin life, genetics, mitochondrial disease, and why she skipped the Doublemint Twins commercial but still ended up as one of the most recognizable forces in oncology. We cover her nonprofit hits, from Michael’s Mission to Let's Win Pancreatic Cancer to launching the American Jewish Medical Association—yes, that’s a thing now. We get personal about compassion in medicine, burnout, bad food science, and microplastics in your blood. She also drops the kind of wisdom only someone with her résumé and sarcasm can. It's raw. It's real. It's the kind of conversation we should’ve had 20 years ago—but better late than never.RELATED LINKS:– Dr. Allyson Ocean on LinkedIn– Let's Win Pancreatic Cancer– NovoCure Leadership Page– Michael’s Mission– American Jewish Medical Association– The POLG Foundation– Cancer Buddy App (Bone Marrow and Cancer Foundation)– Dr. Ocean at OncLiveFEEDBACK:Like this episode? Rate and review Out of Patients on your favorite podcast platform. For guest suggestions or sponsorship inquiries, email podcast@matthewzachary.com.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Sponsored by Invivyd, Inc.Nobody wants to hear about COVID-19 anymore. Especially not cancer patients. But if you’ve got a suppressed immune system thanks to chemo, radiation, stem cell transplants—or any of the other alphabet soup in your chart—then no, it’s not over. It never was. While everyone else is getting sweaty at music festivals, you’re still dodging a virus that could knock you flat.In this episode, Matthew Zachary and Matt Toresco say the quiet part out loud: many immunocompromised people may not even know they have options beyond vaccines. Why? Because the system doesn’t bother to tell them. So we’re doing it instead. We teamed up with Invivyd to help get the word out about tools other than vaccines that can help prevent COVID-19. We break down the why, the what, and the WTF of COVID-19 risk for cancer patients and why every oncologist should be talking about this.No fear-mongering. No sugarcoating. Just two guys with mics who’ve been through it and want to make sure you don’t get blindsided. It’s fast, funny, and furious—with actual facts. You’ve got more power than you think. Time to use it.RELATED LINKSExpand Their OptionsInvivydMatt Toresco on LinkedInOut of Patients podcastFEEDBACKLike this episode? Rate and review Out of Patients on your favorite podcast platform. For guest suggestions or sponsorship inquiries, email podcast@matthewzachary.com.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.