Ascend - The Great Books Podcast

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Harrison Garlick and Dr. Jessica Hooten Wilson of Pepperdine University discuss cantos 13-17 of Dante's Purgatorio--the purging of envy and wrath. Check out our 51 question and answer guide (35 pages!) to the Purgatorio. Check out our YOUTUBE page which has our episodes in playlists!Dr. Jessica Hooten Wilson joins Deacon Harrison Garlick to discuss Cantos 13–17, covering the terraces of envy (Canto 13) and wrath (Cantos 14–17), with a strong focus on the central discourses in the middle of the Comedy. In Canto 13, the envious have their eyelids sewn shut with iron wire, a contrapasso that forces them to rely on others and recognize interdependence. Wilson explains: “envy is to look cross-eyed on another's blessings... to look askance,” and the disembodied voices proclaim examples of generosity (Cana, “I am Orestes,” “Love them from whom you’ve suffered evil”), teaching a mindset of abundance over scarcity (Dr. Jessica Hooten Wilson). Sapia humbly confesses her envy and malice, contrasting with the divisive souls in Inferno.Cantos 14–15 transition to wrath, with visions of meekness (Mary and Joseph seeking Jesus, a tyrant sparing a youth, Stephen forgiving his stoners) and Virgil’s discourse on goods: exhaustible earthly goods versus inexhaustible spiritual ones. Wilson notes: “envy stems from a mindset of scarcity versus Mary’s mindset of abundance... able to supply where it looks like there’s not enough in the world” (Dr. Jessica Hooten Wilson). The pivotal Canto 16 (the exact midpoint of the Comedy) features Marco Lombardo’s sermon on free will: “If the present world has gone astray, the cause is in you, look at yourselves” (Marco via transcript). Wilson calls it “the clearest sermon that Dante has about what’s wrong with the world,” emphasizing that sin arises from misused free will, not fate or stars, and critiques the separation of temporal and spiritual powers.Canto 17 concludes the wrath terrace with Virgil’s discourse on love as the root of all action (“Neither Creator nor creature was ever without love... natural or of the mind” – Virgil via transcript), which can be misdirected, deficient, or excessive. Wilson highlights the shift from reason to grace: “reason can’t do it alone... you need this other kind of intervention” (Dr. Jessica Hooten Wilson). The cantos underscore Purgatorio’s hopeful pedagogy: purgation reorders love through grace, habituation, and contemplation, moving from misdirected to deficient love in preparation for the excessive attachments above. Wilson stresses the urgency: “the Purgatorio shows humanity in motion, dynamic humanity... it has the immediacy... that is an urgency to it” (Dr. Jessica Hooten Wilson).Chapters00:00 Introduction to the Great Books Podcast04:06 Exploring Dante's Purgatorio07:20 The Great Books Program at Pepperdine University10:18 The Significance of Purgatorio13:27 Understanding Envy in Purgatorio16:17 Contrary Virtues: Generosity and Kindness19:22 The Role of Sight and Blindness in Envy22:15 Dante's Moral Lessons on Envy25:14 Comparative Analysis with Inferno30:33 Dante's Poetic Structure and Contrapasso32:15 Comparative Analysis of Characters in Inferno and Purgatorio33:54 The Role of Good and Bad Examples in Moral Education34:14 The Shift from Temporal to Eternal Mindsets34:20 Understanding Canto 14: The Importance of Examples39:35 Canto 15: The Inquiry into Goods and Wrath49:58 Canto 16: The Purging of Wrath and Examples of Virtue51:35 Ecstatic Visions and Penitent Souls52:19 The Tyrant's Moment of Virtue53:28 Humanity in Purgatorio54:38 The Role of Mary in Purgatory56:02 Saint Stephen's Example of Forgiveness57:12 Virgil's Limitations as a Guide59:12 The Nature of Freedom in Purgatory01:03:07 The Importance of Canto 1601:04:37 Understanding Freedom in Dante's Context01:07:32 The Role of Law and Governance01:14:39 Self-Reflection and the State of the World01:23:48 Exploring Wrath in Purgatory01:30:57 Understanding the Structure of PurgatoryKeywords: Dante's Purgatorio, Cantos 13-17, spiritual growth, virtues and vices, education, great books, Dante analysis Dante's Divine Comedy, Purgatory, Virtues and Vices, Free Will, Theology, Morality, Literature, Catholic Teaching, Spiritual Journey

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Deacon Garlick and Mr. Luke Heintschel, headmaster of Coeur du Christ Academy, discuss the rest of ante-purgatory and then the first terrace--the purging of pride.Check out our GUIDE: 51 QUESTIONS ON THE PURGATORIO.Visit thegreatbookspodcast.com for more information.The conversation explores the transition from Ante-Purgatory into the proper mountain of Purgatory and the first terrace dedicated to purging the sin of pride. Garlick describes this section as one of his favorites in the entire Purgatorio, praising Dante’s ability to provide a rich “liturgy” and spiritual library of resources for reshaping the soul into the beautiful image of Christ. The episode emphasizes Purgatorio as a positive map for sanctification and theosis, contrasting sharply with the Inferno’s exposure of sin’s ugliness.Guest Introduction and Classical Education InsightsLuke Heintschel shares his personal journey from evangelization and biblical theology into classical education, explaining how he came to see the liberal arts tradition—long cultivated by the Church—as the most effective means of making Catholicism relevant to contemporary young people. He describes his school’s mission of forming saints, scholars, and servants through the historic Catholic educational model. Deacon and Heintschel discuss the harmony of faith and reason, noting how reading great books alongside Scripture and theology reveals that the God who grants intellect is the same God who died on the cross. They highlight the value of using Dante’s Purgatorio in moral theology classes, where it serves not as a list of rules but as a vivid portrayal of transforming the heart’s disordered loves toward their divine end.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Ascend and Dante's Purgatorio09:02 Understanding Purgatorio: A Map for Spiritual Growth15:17 Dante's Intercessory Prayer and Its Significance24:13 The Role of Beatrice and the Nature of Beauty34:53 Dante's Political Critique and the State of Italy43:05 The Call to Higher Patriotism53:44 Understanding Virtue: Natural vs. Theological59:35 The Valley of the Kings: Political Failures and Redemption01:15:02 Dante's Heroism and Divine Grace01:19:41 The Three Steps to Purification01:28:10 The Role of Humility in Purgatory01:51:27 The Purpose of Purification01:59:24 Contrappasso: The Nature of Punishment in Purgatory02:04:44 Examples of Pride: Lessons from the Past02:16:26 The Beatitudes and the Path to Humility02:23:47 Eagerness to Ascend: The Transformation of the SoulMoral Theology and the Purpose of PurgatorioThe hosts stress that moral theology is not merely about avoiding sin but about becoming beautiful like Christ through active configuration to His image. Purgatorio offers a lifelong guide for this ascent, presenting prayers, hymns, scriptural examples, and artistic visions tailored to remedy each vice. They critique modern reductions of ethics to a “negative list” of prohibitions, arguing that Dante invites readers to pursue positive virtue and interior change.In Canto 6, the souls in Ante-Purgatory eagerly seek Dante’s prayers, illustrating the Catholic doctrine of intercession for the dead as a participation in Christ’s merits. Virgil explains that purgation is possible through the resurrection, and the episode includes a brief catechesis on the communion of saints across the Church Militant, Penitent, and Triumphant. Beatrice is presented as an icon of divine beauty and grace, with the pilgrim’s desire for her serving as a ladder of ascent from earthly eros to divine charity. Dante’s political lament critiques Italy’s fractured state and absent emperor, yearning for the proper balance of temporal and spiritual powers (duo sunt).Canto 7 introduces the Valley of the Princes—failed rulers delayed for neglecting their Christian vocation—while the night rule underscores that ascent requires God’s grace (symbolized by the sun). The princes sing Salve Regina, submitting to the true Queen, Mary.Cantos 8–9: Nighttime Vigil, Dream, and Entry into PurgatoryCanto 8 features angels driving off the serpent of temptation in a repeated catechetical drama, while the souls sing Te lucis ante terminum to entrust the night to God.In Canto 9, St. Lucy (meaning “light”) carries the sleeping Dante upward, emphasizing that grace, not human effort, enables ascent. The three steps to the Gate of Purgatory symbolize self-knowledge (polished white marble), contrition (cracked dark stone), and penance (fiery red porphyry). An angel inscribes seven P’s (peccata, sins) on Dante’s forehead and uses the keys of Peter—commanded to err on the side of mercy—to open the gate, accompanied by the Te Deum.Cantos 10–12: The First Terrace – Purging PrideThe first terrace features marble reliefs of humility: the Annunciation (Mary’s fiat), David dancing before the Ark, and Emperor Trajan aiding a widow. These Christian and pagan examples of the contrary virtue counter pride. The proud souls carry massive boulders that force them to bow low, habituating humility through a purifying contrapasso. The ground displays carved examples of pride’s fall—Lucifer, the Tower of Babel, Niobe, Saul, Arachne, Rehoboam, and others—often alternating biblical and classical stories to show pride’s universal danger. The souls recite an expanded Our Father, praying intercessorily for those on earth, and the Beatitude “Blessed are the poor in spirit” is sung sweetly. As pride is purged, an angel removes one P, the soul grows eager and light-footed, and Virgil laughs—a rare moment of joy signaling progress in the ascent.Closing and Next StepsDeacon thanks Heintschel for his insights and reminds listeners that Purgatorio functions as both literary masterpiece and practical spiritual guide.The next episode will cover Cantos 13–17 (envy and wrath) with Dr. Jessica Hooten Wilson of Pepperdine University.KeywordsDante's Purgatorio, Christian Virtues, Intercessory Prayer, Classical Education, Theology, Morality, Politics, Dante's Guide, Beatrice, Virgil Dante's Purgatorio, humility, pride, spiritual journey, classical analogies, biblical themes, liturgical imagery, virtue, contrapasso, purgation

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Harrison Garlick and Dr. Donald Prudlo, the Warren Chair of Catholic Studies at the University of Tulsa, discuss the Ante-Purgatory, the foot of Mount Purgatory (Cantos 1-5).Check out our guide on Dante's Purgatorio (out soon!)Visit Dr. Jason Baxter's website and use "Ascend" in the promo code for 20% off his Purgatorio audiobook.Thanks for the Center for Beauty and Culture at Benedictine College for their support!The conversation with Dr. Prudlo and Deacon Garlick on Cantos 1–5 of Purgatorio opens with the dramatic shift from the despair of Inferno to the hope and refreshment of Purgatory.In Canto 1, Dante and Virgil emerge from Hell onto the shores of Mount Purgatory at Easter dawn, where Dante humbly invokes Calliope, the Muse of epic poetry, signaling his project as “the Christian epic” (Dr. Donald Prudlo). They meet Cato the Younger, a pagan suicide saved by special grace, who embodies the four cardinal virtues and serves as Purgatory’s guardian. Prudlo emphasizes the shock: “Cato the pagan, the suicide is going to heaven. And we have got to confront that or we're going to miss so much of what Dante has to tell us here” (Dr. Donald Prudlo). The ritual of washing with dew and girding with the humble reed contrasts the broken plants of the suicides in Hell and symbolizes the beginning of true humility and ascent.Cantos 2–5 introduce the late-repentant souls and the mountain’s structure. In Canto 2, an angelic boat ferries souls singing “In exitu Israel de Aegypto,” a psalm of liberation that Prudlo calls “a multifaceted song” evoking Exodus, baptism, and community (Dr. Donald Prudlo). Casella’s song of Dante’s own poetry enchants the group until Cato rebukes their idleness.Cantos 3–5 explore excommunicated sinners like Manfred (“even under a curse like mine, no one's ever so lost that eternal love cannot come back, as long as hope has any sprouts of green” – Manfred via transcript) and the slothful Belacqua, who banters with Dante like old friends. Prudlo highlights the power of last-minute mercy and intercession: “Mary is the last refuge of sinners” (Dr. Donald Prudlo). The cantos teach that Purgatory is a place of communal hope, where grace reaches even the unlikely, and purification begins with humility, prayer, and rightly ordered love—setting the stage for the active ascent through the terraces.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Dante's Purgatorio04:42 The Importance of Reading Purgatorio08:02 Themes of Emancipation and Freedom10:57 The Role of Cato in Purgatorio13:49 Cato's Significance and Political Implications17:00 Cato as a Precursor to Christ19:51 Dante's Literary Techniques and Inspirations22:56 Contrasting Ulysses and Dante25:36 Cato's Death and Its Symbolism28:52 The Nature of Purgatory and Salvation31:51 Cato's Virtues and Their Relevance34:49 The Relationship Between Cato and Christ37:48 Conclusion and Reflections on Purgatorio50:03 Understanding Cato's Role in Purgatorio52:43 The Heartbreaking Choice of Cato54:39 Rituals and Purification in Purgatory01:00:18 The Arrival at Purgatory01:06:34 The Significance of Water in Salvation01:12:09 Virgil's Role and the Nature of Guidance01:24:57 Manfred: A Case of Late Repentance01:29:38 The Role of Intercessory Prayer in Purgatory01:34:00 Understanding Mount Purgatory and Its Significance01:40:15 The Character of Belacqua and Themes of Friendship01:45:22 Late Repentance and the Nature of Mercy01:54:16 Mary as Intercessor and the Nature of Salvation02:00:25 The Concept of Divine Justice and Mercy02:07:53 Final Reflections on Dante's PurgatorioKeywords: Dante, Purgatorio, spiritual growth, Cato the Younger, community, freedom, liberty, friendship, baptism, Easter, Dante, Purgatory, Virgil, Divine Comedy, late repentance, intercessory prayer, Mary, salvation, medieval theology, mercy.

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dr. Jason Baxter and Dcn. Harrison Garlick come together to introduce Dante's Purgatorio and Dr. Baxter's new translation!We are reading Dante's Purgatorio for Lent. Join us!Visit thegreatbookspodcast.com for our reading schedule!Check out our LIBRARY of written guides to the great books!DISCOUNT: Check out Dr. Jason Baxter's website and enter "Ascend" to receive **20%** off the Purgatorio audiobook read by Dr. Baxter!Check out Dr. Baxter's Substack article on his new translation.And thank you to the Center of Beauty and Culture at Benedictine College for promoting this reading of the Purgatorio!Dr. Baxter first describes the Center for Beauty and Culture at Benedictine College as a fellowship program (Angelico Fellows) that immerses students in beauty across the arts, music, literature, and theology—through concerts, museums, and pilgrimages—to foster interiority and the conviction that “beauty can save the world.”The conversation then contrasts Purgatorio with the Inferno: while the latter is dark, lurid, and focused on judgment, Purgatorio is a place of hope, mercy, transformation, and “eternal New Year’s resolutions,” where repentant souls engage in spiritual exercises to purify their tarnished mirrors, learn authentic love and prayer, and prepare for Paradise. Baxter likens the shift to moving from heavy metal to Schubert, emphasizing greenness, brightness, and unexpected mercy.Baxter explains that his translation began as a personal quest for mastery—going word-by-word to internalize Dante like memorizing a piano piece—but evolved into a philosophy capturing Dante’s “fugue” of style: ascending, prolix syntax with lofty classical allusions layered over humble, earthy words that reflect Franciscan humility and incarnational Christian poetics. Examples include goats ruminating on the “foco d’amore” (fire of love) amid elevated star imagery, or Statius calling Virgil’s Aeneid “una mamma” (translated “mommy”).He describes Purgatorio as spiritual surgery—painfully removing the soul’s “carcinogenic” elements through grace-filled cooperation—and a map for configuring to Christ beyond mere sin avoidance. Baxter advises first-time readers to pause at puzzling images or word choices, ask “why would Dante do that here?,” trust their instincts, and consider his audiobook for the text’s soundscape, while Deacon Garlick stresses the canticle’s role as a spiritual guide that mirrors one’s own maturation toward God.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Ascend and Dante's Purgatorio03:43 The Center for Beauty and Culture05:40 Understanding Dante's Purgatorio07:54 The Nature of Purgatorio14:54 Dante the Pilgrim vs. Dante the Poet19:32 The Spirituality of Translation20:14 The Philosophy of Translation30:02 Dante's Christian Poetics34:22 Exploring Dante's Poetic Style36:51 Juxtaposition in Dante's Imagery41:42 The Concept of Spiritual Surgery44:49 The Journey of Holiness48:13 The Role of Love in Dante's Theology52:00 Eros and the Ascent to Divine Beauty55:29 Engaging with Dante: Tips for First-Time ReadersJoin us next week as we start Dante's Purgatorio for Lent!SCHEDULE:2.10.26: Introduction with Dr. Jason Baxter, Benedictine College2.17.26: Cantos 1-5 (Ante-Purgatory) with Dr. Donald Prudlo, University of Tulsa2.24.26: Cantos 6-12 (Ante-Purgatory, Gate, First Terrace) with Luke Heintschel, Headmaster, Coeur du Christ Academy3.3.26: Cantos 13-17 (Envy and Wrath) with Dr. Jessica Hooten Wilson, Pepperdine University3.10.26: Cantos 18-22 (Avarice and Prodigality) with Dr. Sarah Berry, University of Dallas3.17.26: Cantos 23-27 (Gluttony and Lust) with Fr. Patrick Briscoe, OP3.24.26: Cantos 28-31 (Earthly Paradise) with Dr. Michael West, University of Dallas.3.31.26: Cantos 32-33 (Beatrice) with Joshua Charles and Dr. Frank Grabowski, Holy Family Classical SchoolDISCOUNT: Check out Dr. Jason Baxter's website and enter "Ascend" to receive **20%** off the Purgatorio audiobook read by Dr. Baxter!PS - Like the icon in the background? Check out Joey Bremer's incredible hand painted icons!

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Deacon Harrison Garlick and Dr. Justin Jackson host a Q&A on Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. They explore major themes such as the role of femininity, the moral dilemmas faced by Gawain, and the significance of the girdle. Visit thegreatbookspodcast.com for our reading schedule!Check out our episodes on Sir Gawain and the Green Knight and our study guide!Visit Professor Jackson's awesome SUBSTACK.The conversation highlights Gawain's character development, the tension between chivalric ideals and Christian morality, and the Green Knight's role as a tempter. Through a detailed analysis, they uncover the layers of meaning within the poem, emphasizing the intentional tension crafted by the poet.Join our Patreon page to be able to submit questions in the future!Chapters00:00 Introduction to the Podcast and Guests03:13 Teaching 'Sir Gawain and the Green Knight'06:34 The Role of Women in the Poem12:27 The Tension Between Pagan and Christian Elements21:57 Gawain's Moral Dilemmas and Compartmentalization28:05 The Confession Scene and Its Implications37:02 Confession and Contrition40:56 The Green Knight's Dual Role51:58 Chivalry, Cowardice, and the Girdle01:02:50 Symbolism of Colors in Gawain01:07:31 The Intensity of the Green Knight01:08:36 Gawain's Confrontation and Internal Conflict01:11:29 The Symbolism of the Green Girdle01:17:24 The Ending: Bliss and Blunder01:26:19 Final Thoughts on Gawain's JourneyKeywordsSir Gawain, Green Knight, themes, femininity, chivalry, morality, confession, literature, medieval, analysis, Sir Gawain, Green Knight, chivalry, medieval literature, symbolism, courtly love, Morgan Le Fay, color symbolism, moral lessons, literary analysis, great books, philosophy, Catholic, CatholicismTakeawaysThe tension in the poem is intentional and significant.Gawain's character is complex, showcasing both strengths and weaknesses.The role of femininity is prominent and influential in the narrative.The girdle symbolizes Gawain's internal conflict and moral struggles.Gawain's confession scene raises important questions about sincerity and contrition.The Green Knight serves as a tempter, challenging Gawain's virtues.The poem explores the interplay between pagan and Christian ideals.Gawain's journey reflects a maturation of character and understanding.The hunting scenes parallel Gawain's temptations and moral choices.The poet's use of language invites readers to engage deeply with the text. The nick on the neck symbolizes Gawain's failure in chivalry and Christianity.The poet uses precise language to draw parallels between Gawain's actions and the Green Knight's.The kisses exchanged in the poem have both courtly and liturgical significance.Morgan Le Fay's role raises questions about manipulation and temptation in the narrative.Color symbolism in the poem serves multiple interpretations, particularly with green and red.Gawain's cowardice is a central theme, reflecting on self-preservation and honor.The green girdle represents both shame and a form of glory for Gawain.The ending of the poem invites reflection on the nature of mirth and mockery in chivalric culture.The final motto suggests a moral principle about projecting one's faults onto others.The cyclical nature of bliss and blunder is a key takeaway from the poem's conclusion.We start the Purgatorio next week! Join us!

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Deacon Harrison Garlick and Dr. Donald Prudlo explore the intricate relationship between Plato and St. Thomas Aquinas, examining how Aquinas's thought is influenced by Platonic philosophy while also being rooted in Aristotle. We are reading the PURGATORIO for Lent!Check out our LIBRARY OF GUIDES TO THE GREAT BOOKS.See Dr. Prudlo's books on St. Thomas, administration, and more!They discuss the nuances of Aquinas' understanding of universals, the nature of evil, and the significance of the body in Christian anthropology, highlighting the complexities of Aquinas's intellectual context and the historical development of these philosophical ideas. They discuss how Aquinas synthesized various philosophical traditions, particularly in his understanding of existence and essence, the role of beauty, and the moral implications of his metaphysics. The dialogue also touches on the early church's reception (or rejection) of Aristotle, the influence of Islamic philosophy, and the evolution of Aquinas' thought throughout his life. Ultimately, the conversation highlights the richness of Aquinas' philosophy and its relevance to contemporary discussions on faith and reason.Chapters00:00 Introduction to the Great Books Podcast03:11 Experiencing the Papal Conclave06:34 Plato and Aquinas: A Complex Relationship12:43 Aquinas' Intellectual Evolution17:02 The Importance of Reading the Great Books24:25 Platonic Thought in Aquinas' Philosophy34:48 The Quest for Certitude in Philosophy37:20 Realism and the Nature of Universals40:56 Mind-Body Dualism and the Significance of the Body47:36 The Reception of Aristotle in Early Christianity54:09 The Distinction Between Essence and Existence01:04:53 The Role of Beauty in Aquinas' Philosophy01:06:38 Exploring Beauty in Philosophy01:11:23 The Role of Beauty in St. Thomas Aquinas01:13:44 The Ladder of Love and Its Implications01:19:18 Essence and Existence in Thomistic Thought01:21:41 The Hierarchy of Being and Divine Wisdom01:25:22 The Evolution of Aquinas' Thought01:27:35 Understanding Aquinas Through His Influences01:30:17 Final Thoughts on Faith and ReasonTakeawaysAquinas is often mischaracterized as purely Aristotelian.The relationship between Plato and Aristotle is more complex (and harmonious) than often portrayed.Aquinas' thought is enriched by both Platonic and Aristotelian influences.Evil is understood as a privation of the good in Aquinas's philosophy.Aquinas' understanding of universals differs from both Plato and Aristotle.The concept of exitus and reditus is a key Neoplatonic idea in Aquinas.The mind-body dualism presents challenges for Christian thought.Aquinas retained Platonic emphasis on the immortality of the soul.The early church viewed Aristotle as a lesser philosopher compared to Plato.Islamic philosophy significantly influenced medieval scholasticism.Aquinas' distinction between existence and essence is revolutionary.God's essence is existence itself, making Him unique.Beauty is integral to understanding truth and goodness in Aquinas' thought.Grace perfects nature, allowing for a fuller realization of being.The hierarchy of being reflects God's wisdom in creation.Aquinas' later works show a deeper engagement with Neoplatonism.The dialogue between faith and reason is central to Aquinas' philosophy.KeywordsPlato, St. Thomas Aquinas, philosophy, Neoplatonism, Aristotle, universals, particulars, evil, mind-body dualism, Christian thought, Aquinas, Aristotle, Plato, medieval philosophy, essence, existence, beauty, Islamic philosophy, hierarchy of being, Thomism, great books

In this episode of the Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Deacon Harrison Garlick engages in a profound discussion with Dr. Thomas Ward from Baylor University about Plato's influence on St. Boethius. The conversation begins with an exploration of Boethius's life, particularly his role as a Roman statesman and philosopher during a tumultuous time in history. Dr. Ward highlights St. Boethius's seminal work, "The Consolation of Philosophy," written while he awaited execution, and discusses its impact on medieval thought and the liberal arts tradition. The dialogue emphasizes St. Boethius's unique position as a bridge between Roman and medieval philosophy, often referred to as the last of the Romans and the first of the medievals.Visit thegreatbookspodcast.com for our reading schedule.Want to know more about Plato? Start here with our Plato playlist.And check out Dr. Thomas Ward's website!As the conversation unfolds, the discussion shifts to the Platonic influences on St. Boethius's writings. Dr. Ward explains how Boethius synthesized Platonic and Aristotelian thought, particularly in his understanding of the good and the nature of happiness. The episode delves into the themes of evil as privation, the nature of true happiness, and the philosophical journey from despair to enlightenment that St. Boethius undergoes in his work. The dialogue is rich with references to other philosophical texts, including the works of Plato, and draws parallels between Boethius's ideas and those found in the writings of later thinkers like Dante and Aquinas. Overall, the episode serves as a compelling introduction to Boethius's thought and its enduring relevance in the study of philosophy.Chapters00:00 Introduction to the Great Books Podcast02:24 Exploring Boethius and His Influence04:16 Who Was Boethius?07:49 Boethius: The Last Roman and First Scholastic10:18 The Liberal Arts and Boethius' Legacy11:36 Teaching Boethius: A Personal Journey14:07 Plato's Influence on Boethius18:50 The Consolation of Philosophy: Setting the Stage24:31 Lady Philosophy: Deconstruction and Reconstruction29:58 The Quest for Self-Knowledge30:51 Fortune and Its Dual Nature31:53 The Good: Bridging Plato and Christianity36:19 Happiness and the Divine Connection40:00 The Paradox of Good and Evil45:11 The Poetic and Philosophical Fusion48:44 Evil as Privation: A Platonic Insight52:08 Boethius: A Synthesis of Philosophical TraditionsTakeawaysBoethius is often called the last of the Romans and the first of the Medievals.His work, "The Consolation of Philosophy," was written while he awaited execution.Boethius synthesized Platonic and Aristotelian thought in his writings.Evil is understood as a privation of good, not a substance in itself.The journey from despair to enlightenment is central to Boethius's philosophy.KeywordsBoethius, Plato, Consolation of Philosophy, medieval philosophy, Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Thomas Ward, liberal arts, happiness, evil as privation, philosophy, Deacon Harrison Garlick, great books

How did Plato influence St. Augustine? Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Harrison Garlick and Dr. Chad Pecknold of the Catholic University of America discuss Plato's influence on St. Augustine.Check out our account on X for daily postings on the great books!Check out our library of written guides to the great books!Check out FIRE ON THE ALTAR by Dr. Chad Pecknold.The discussion begins with the historical evolution of Platonism—from the original Academy of Socrates and Plato, through Middle Platonism (with figures like Plutarch and Apuleius), to the late or Neoplatonism of Plotinus and others—showing how it became increasingly religious, mystical, and hierarchical in the Roman Empire, complete with daemons (intermediary spiritual beings) and a strong emphasis on the soul's ascent to the divine.St. Augustine, after years as a Manichaean and skeptic, encountered Platonic texts (likely including Plotinus) in Milan around 385–386 AD through Christian Platonists like Bishop Ambrose and Simplicianus. These writings played a crucial role in his intellectual conversion: they revealed a transcendent, immaterial God as Being itself, the eternal Word/Logos, and the soul's capacity for contemplative ascent beyond the material world—ideas strikingly parallel to the prologue of John's Gospel.Yet St. Augustine recognized Platonism's crucial limitation: it allowed him to "catch the fragrance" of God but not to "feast" through union, because it lacked the Word made flesh—the incarnate Christ as the true mediator who bridges the gap between the divine and humanity, solving the problem of mediation and purification that Platonism itself raised but could not resolve.Ultimately, Pecknold presents Platonism as a providential praeparatio evangelica—a promise that raises the restless heart's longing for God, truth, beauty, and eternal happiness—but one fulfilled only in Christianity. St. Augustine adopts and transforms Platonic elements (such as the ideas/forms residing in the divine mind, now identified with the Logos/Christ, and the soul's ascent through purification) while critiquing its errors, especially its inadequate mediators and inability to address incarnation, bodily resurrection, and grace. In this way, St. Augustine shows that Plato comes closest among philosophers to Christianity, yet only the Word made flesh satisfies the hunger Plato so powerfully articulated.Plato on St. Boethius is up next week!

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, host Dcn. Harrison Garlick, along with guests Alec Bianco and Sean Berube, explore St. Basil the Great’s letter To Young Men, on the Right Use of Greek Literature, passionately arguing that Christians—especially young men—should actively read pagan classics like Homer, Plato, and Hesiod. Check out thegreatbookspodcast.comCheck out our LIBRARY OF WRITTEN GUIDES to the great books.Drawing on personal testimonies, the trio explains how these pre-Christian texts strengthened their own faith, trained natural virtue, sharpened Scripture reading, and revealed seeds of the Logos planted by divine providence. Through vivid analogies—leaves preparing fruit, bees gathering honey, and despoiling the Egyptians—they, supported by St. Jerome’s defense, contend that pagan literature is not a threat but a providential gift that grace perfects, forming the soul, evoking wonder, and equipping believers to engage the world with confidence and love.SummaryThe conversation highlights how pagan texts address universal human questions—virtue, meaning, fate, and the divine—preparing the soul for revelation, much as leaves nourish fruit on a branch or mirrors help the immature soul see itself. St. Basil’s analogies are unpacked: pagan literature as a shallow pool for beginners, bees selectively gathering honey from flowers, and the need to discriminate good from harmful elements through the standard of Christ. Examples include Odysseus’s restraint with Nausicaa as a model of natural virtue and Socrates’s near-Christian insights on non-retaliation. The guests stress that grace perfects nature, so training in natural virtue via pagan examples elevates rather than diminishes the supernatural call, challenging modern sloth and low expectations of human potential.Providence is a recurring theme: Hebrew faith and Greek reason converged under Roman order to prepare the world for Christ; parallels in myths (floods, giants, serpents) and the Hellenization of Scripture (Septuagint, New Testament in Greek) show God working through pagan culture. References to Tolkien, Lewis, and Justin Martyr’s logos spermatikos underscore that truth found anywhere belongs to Christians. Music and athletics are explored as parallels—pagan modes and contests can form the soul when approached with discernment, just as Doric tunes sobered revelers in Pythagoras’s story.The discussion shifts to St. Jerome’s Letter 70, defending the use of secular literature against accusations of defiling the Church. Jerome cites Moses educated in Egyptian wisdom, Paul quoting pagan poets, and analogies like despoiling the Egyptians or David wielding Goliath’s sword—Christianity takes the best of pagan thought and conquers paganism with it. His provocative image of shaving the captive woman (Deuteronomy) to make secular wisdom a “matron of the true Israel” illustrates stripping away seductive errors to reveal underlying beauty and truth.Ultimately, the episode frames engagement with pagan literature as an act of love: understanding providence, nurturing what is good, evangelizing by meeting souls where they are, and ascending toward the Logos who permeates all reality. The tone is confident and joyful, rejecting both puritanical fear and uncritical consumption in favor of prudent, Christ-centered discernment.KeywordsChristians read pagans, pagan literature Christians, St Basil pagan literature, St Basil Greek literature, why Christians read Homer, why Christians read Plato, classical education Christianity, great books Christianity, and pagan classics faith. Long-tail keywords to target specific searches are should Christians read pagan literature, why young Christian men read pagans, St Basil address to young men, St Basil on Greek literature, St Jerome pagan literature, despoiling the Egyptians, logos spermatikos, faith and reason harmony, grace perfects nature, reading Homer as Christian, Plato and Christianity, pagan virtue Christian formation, classical literature Catholic, great books Orthodox, and Justin Martyr pagan truth. Keywords focused on Church Fathers and texts encompass St Basil the Great, St Jerome Letter 70, Justin Martyr Christians pagans, and Cappadocian fathers classics. Related topics and authors include Homer Scripture, Plato Scripture, Iliad Christian reading, Odyssey virtue, Greek philosophy faith, Hellenization Christianity, Regensburg address Benedict XVI, and logos eros Christianity. Finally, audience-specific keywords cover young Christian men books, Christian men's formation, Catholic great books, and Orthodox classical education.

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast concludes their Christmas reading of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight with Fitt 4, exploring Gawain’s restored armor, journey to the eerie Green Chapel, the three axe swings, Bertilak’s revelations, Morgan le Fay’s role, and the court’s final response.Visit our WEBSITE for our reading schedule and more!Check out our 50 QUESTION AND ANSWER GUIDE to Sir Gawain and the Green Knight.The discussion wrestles with Gawain’s girdle lapse, the degree of his fault, the poem’s moral realism, and its enduring vision of chivalry tempered by humility and grace.Why is this poem worth reading?This 14th-century gem subverts chivalric romance by relocating true heroism from battlefield glory to internal struggles with fear, courtesy, and faith—revealing with wit, irony, and profound humanity how even the “most faultless” knight bears imperfection. Its vivid poetry, layered symbolism (pentangle, girdle, greenness), and Christmas-liturgical depth offer a timeless meditation on pride, mortality, and divine mercy that meets flawed striving with grace—making it an ideal seasonal read for reflecting on our own hidden fears and the courage to face them.Key Discussion PointsRestored Armor & Girdle: Gawain’s gleaming armor (rust scraped off) and open wearing of the girdle for self-preservation—symbolizing lingering fear beneath renewed ideal.Final Temptation: Servant’s offer to lie and let Gawain flee—Gawain refuses, prioritizing truth and fortitude.Green Chapel: Described as ancient barrow/tomb in wild valley—evoking death, pagan past, nature’s savagery, and satanic dread.Three Swings: First (flinch), second (feigned), third (nick)—mirroring castle days; nick as merciful penance for girdle fault.Degree of Error: Guests debate: minor (fear-driven, not malice) yet meaningful lapse in trust/providence; Tolkien downplays, Deacon sees deeper Christian failing.Morgan le Fay vs. Mary: Opposing feminine forces—malicious fae magic vs. protective providence.Gawain’s Reaction: Self-reproach, brief blaming of women, then accepting girdle as lifelong humility token.Court’s Response: Laughter, solidarity—adopting green baldric as fraternity badge, transforming shame into shared emblem.Old French Motto: “Honi soit qui mal y pense”—Order of the Garter motto reframing girdle as honorable.Notable QuotesBanished Kent: “The poem ends on God’s grace… he survives because of that.”George: “Gawain as anti-Lancelot… and anti-Galahad—more human, more endearing.”Thank you for joining this Christmas journey through Sir Gawain. Next week: Why Christians should read the pagan Greeks, with St. Basil and St. Jerome. Join the community on Patreon or X!

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Harrison Garlick, Dr. Tiffany Schubert of Wyoming Catholic College, George of the Chivalry Guild, and Banished Kent discuss Fitts 2 and 3 of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight!Visit thegreatbookspodcast.com for our reading schedule!Check out our 50 QUESTION-AND-ANSWER GUIDE to Sir Gawain and the Green Knight.Be sure to visit our sister publication, THE ASCENT, for Christian spirituality.Episode SummaryThe panel continues the Christmas reading of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, exploring Fitts 2 and 3 with Dr. Tiffany Schubert. The discussion covers the meditative passage of time, Gawain’s elaborate armor and pentangle, his wilderness journey, arrival at the lord's castle, and the three bedroom temptations mirroring the lord’s hunts. Themes of courtesy versus Christian prudence, the unexpected location of peril, and human imperfection dominate.Why Sir Gawain and the Green Knight Is Worth ReadingThis poem masterfully redirects chivalric expectations from martial heroism to internal trials of temperance and fidelity, using irony, humor, and subtle symbolism to expose the tensions within knighthood itself. As Dr. Schubert notes, it brings readers “back down into this world”—a murky, incarnate place of comfort and laughter where true danger often hides—while probing whether Christian virtue can govern or perfect courtly ideals. Rich in liturgical resonance, Marian devotion, and realistic grace, it humanizes the heroic quest, making it profoundly relevant for reflecting on temptation, fear, and humility during the Christmas season.Key Discussion PointsTime & Seasons: Opening meditation on cyclical yet forward-moving time; Gawain’s lingering and All Hallows’ departure as liturgical reflection on mortality.Armor & Pentangle: Lavish buildup of Gawain’s gear and “endless knot” (five sets of five perfections, piety surpassing all) as outward ideal—quickly deflated as armor is removed.Mary Inside the Shield: Hidden source of strength and piety governing the public projection of perfection.Wilderness to Castle: Dismissal of monster battles; castle as surprising “answer” to Marian prayer—Providence working through murky, tempting paths.Second Christmas Game: Bertilak’s exchange of winnings parallels the first deadly game, shifting peril to courtesy and domestic temptation.Three Temptations & Hunts: Parallel structure—doe (subtle), boar (fierce), fox (cunning); Gawain resists lust admirably but accepts/conceals girdle out of fear of death.Courtesy vs. Christian Prudence: Repeated bedroom returns (no Joseph-like flight) prolong exposure, allowing lady to exploit deeper flaw—courtesy overriding removal from sin.Confession Ambiguity: Post-girdle absolution raises questions of self-awareness and lingering human frailty.Humor & Irony: Lighthearted banter, kiss exchanges, and tonal ease amid “great peril” and single use of “sin.”Notable QuotesDr. Schubert: “This is a really funny kind of a poem… part of the way the poet redirects our attention to what is actually the challenge.”Deacon Garlick: “Courtesy is holding him there… the more he adheres to the courtesy culture, the more he jeopardizes his own soul.”Banished Kent: “The real temptation… is the temptation to hold on to his own life.”Visit thegreatbookspodcast.com for our reading schedule!Check out our 50 QUESTION-AND-ANSWER GUIDE to Sir Gawain and the Green Knight.Be sure to visit our sister publication, THE ASCENT, for Christian spirituality.

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, we are discussing Fitt 1 of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight with Dcn. Garlick, Dr. Justin Jackson of Hillsdale College, Chivalry Guild, and Banished Kent.Check out thegreatbookspodcast.com for our reading schedule.Check out our WRITTEN GUIDE to Sir Gawain and the Greek Knight (posted soon!).Episode SummaryThe panel dives into the 14th-century Middle English masterpiece Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, exploring its mysterious single-manuscript survival, alliterative brilliance, and rich layers of meaning in Fit 1. From the Troy-to-Britain prologue to the shocking arrival of the Green Knight and the beheading game, the discussion uncovers dualities, temptations, and the clash between chivalric courtesy and Christian virtue that make this Christmas tale profoundly relevant.Why Sir Gawain and the Green Knight Is Worth ReadingThis poem stands as one of the greatest works of English literature because it masterfully blends adventure, humor, moral depth, and spiritual insight. As Dr. Jackson notes, it survived by miracle in a single tiny manuscript, yet offers the “greatest chivalric romance” alongside exquisite theological literacy. It probes timeless questions—how do pride, fear, courtesy, and faith collide in a fallen world?—without easy answers, forcing readers to wrestle with their own choices. Tolkien saw it as a meditation on seductive worldly culture versus Christian ethos; the guests highlight its realistic portrayal of human imperfection amid high ideals. Beautifully crafted (alliteration, bob-and-wheel, vivid imagery), often funny, and profoundly Christian, it humanizes the heroic while elevating humility and grace—perfect for Christmas reflection on mortality, temptation, and redemption.Key Discussion PointsManuscript & Poet: A unique survival with Pearl, Cleanness, and Patience; anonymous poet of astounding skill in alliterative revival.Historical Frame: Begins with Troy’s fall and Aeneas (traitor in medieval legend) leading to Brutus and Britain—history as “bliss and blunder.”Arthur’s Court: Young, vital Arthur is admirable yet “somewhat childish,” craving marvels or “life for life” combat.Guinevere’s Gray Eyes: Symbol of wisdom/clarity, yet ambiguous; benchmark of beauty later challenged.Green Knight’s Duality: Terrifying green giant vs. courtly noble—tempting fear/violence vs. courtesy/mercy.The Game: Explicitly “stroke for stroke,” not beheading; court’s violent interpretation reveals failures.Tolkien’s Lens: Tension between seductive chivalric/courtly culture and higher Christian virtue.Gawain’s Intervention: Praised as humble, loyal self-sacrifice to shield Arthur.Notable QuotesDr. Jackson: “The poem is giving you two readings throughout, and then it wants to see which one are you going to appropriate.”Deacon Garlick: “This text captures my imagination… knowledge is an antecedent to love.”George (via Tolkien): “Gawain… as a matter of duty and humility and self-sacrifice.”Resources & RecommendationsTolkien’s translation and scholarly editionJames Winny’s facing-page translationDr. Jackson’s Hillsdale online course lecture (watch after finishing the poem to avoid spoilers)Next episode: Fits 2–3 with Dr. Tiffany Schubert. Join the discussion on Patreon or X!

Today on Ascend, we discuss Plato, education, the role of the teacher, eros, beauty, and much more drawing from the dialogues First Alcibiades and the Meno. Returning to the podcast, we have Dcn. Garlick, Dr. Frank Grabowski, Dr. Brett Larson, and Thomas Lackey.Visit thegreatbookspodcast.com for our reading schedule.Visit our LIBRARY OF WRITTEN GUIDES to help you read the great books. What does it mean to teach like Plato? In this rich, wide-ranging conversation the panel explores lessons on education drawn from Plato’s First Alcibiades and Meno. The central idea: the true teacher is not an information-dispenser or job-trainer, but a lover of the soul who serves as a living mirror in which the student comes to “know himself” and is drawn toward virtue, happiness, and ultimate beauty.Summary:The conversation revolved around a single, radiant idea: for Plato, the true teacher is not a dispenser of information or a trainer for the marketplace, but a lover of the soul. In First Alcibiades, Socrates positions himself as the living mirror in which the young, ambitious Alcibiades can finally see himself clearly and be drawn toward genuine happiness through virtue. Education is therefore deeply personal, erotic (in the classical sense of an ardent desire for not only pleasure but also nobility and wisdom), and irreducibly communal; self-knowledge is never solitary navel-gazing but requires another soul whose loving gaze reflects one’s own. The panel repeatedly contrasted this rich, teleological vision—where education aims at universal happiness, orders the whole person toward truth, goodness, and beauty, and ultimately points to God as the final mirror—with the thin, “unerotic” reality of modern schooling, which often reduces teachers to talking search engines and students to economic cogs in a materialist machine.A second major thread was the haunting, unresolved tension of the Meno: teaching demands both an able and willing teacher and an able and willing student. Virtue can be cultivated, but it cannot be forcibly downloaded; the student must respond, cooperate, and allow his desires to be re-ordered toward what is truly lovable. This led to broader reflections on beauty, rhetoric, place, and hierarchy: truth is beautiful and therefore insists on being loved; philosophy without rhetoric is impotent, rhetoric without philosophy becomes tyrannical; ugly buildings and disembodied logic deform the soul; natural hierarchy is not abolished by grace but perfected and placed in service of the common good. Throughout, the panel returned to the conviction that genuine education is slow, embodied, relational, and oriented toward the transcendent—an ascent that begins with a teacher who truly sees and loves the soul before him.Key words: Plato, First Alcibiades, Meno, classical education, teacher as lover of the soul, know thyself, virtue, happiness, eudaimonia, beauty, transcendentals, eros, mirror of the soul, rhetoric, philosophy, modern education critique, materialism, teleology, Socratic method, student-teacher relationship, hierarchy, imago Dei, Christian Platonism, and Great Books.This conversation was recorded April 2025.

In this episode of Ascend, Deacon Harrison Garlick and Dr. Brian Kemple discuss the violent, grotesque southern tale "The Lame Shall Enter First" by Flannery O'Connor.Visit thegreatbookspodcast.com for our reading schedule!Check out our LIBRARY of written guides to the great books.Check out the Lyceum Institute.They explore O'Connor's life, her unique Southern Gothic style, and the themes of faith, suffering, and the grotesque in her writing. The conversation also touches on the mission of the Lyceum Institute, the significance of characters and their arcs, and the pedagogical purpose of violence in literature. Through their analysis, they highlight the complexities of human relationships and the contrasting desires of the characters, ultimately revealing the deeper truths embedded in O'Connor's work. Through a detailed analysis of specific scenes and character dynamics, the discussion highlights the grotesque elements in O'Connor's storytelling and the moral implications of her narratives, ultimately reflecting on the nature of redemption and the human experience."She doesn't intend to tidy up reality." - Dr. Kemple

In the incredible final act of Plato’s Gorgias (481–527), Dcn. Harrison Garlick and Dr. Greg McBrayer (Ashland University, New Thinkery podcast) tackle the longest and most brutal confrontation: Socrates versus Callicles, the most shameless, most ambitious, and—as Greg insists—nastiest character in all of Plato. Visit thegreatbookspodcast.com for our read schedule!Check out our COLLECTION OF GUIDES to the great books.Go to THE ASCENT to receive two spiritual lessons a week.Callicles storms in threatening to “whoop Socrates in the mouth” and delivers the most radical claim yet: conventional justice is a sham invented by the weak; by nature the superior should rule, take more, and live without restraint—coining the first recorded “law of nature” in Western literature to mean might makes right (482e–484c). Socrates flips the argument, forces Callicles to admit intelligence without self-control is mere cleverness, and reduces his unlimited-pleasure principle to absurdity with the leaky-jar and escalating vulgar examples (constant scratching, the catamite, 494–495), provoking Callicles’ outraged “Aren’t you ashamed?”—proof he still clings to the noble (kalon) despite his bravado.At 503a Socrates finally reveals the two kinds of rhetoric: the shameful, flattering kind that seeks only pleasure, and the true, noble rhetoric that “makes the souls of citizens as good as possible” and strives to say “what is best” whether pleasant or painful—the kind Socrates claims to be the only Athenian practicing (521d). When Callicles becomes completely recalcitrant, Socrates turns to the audience with the unforgettable myth of naked souls judged by dead judges (523a–527e): every injustice leaves visible scars no rhetoric or power can hide; the cosmos itself is ordered toward justice and will not allow injustice to triumph forever. Athens is about to execute its only true statesman, but the myth promises that in the final reckoning Socrates’ just soul will shine while his accusers’ scarred souls stand exposed. The dialogue ends not with Callicles’ conversion but with Socrates’ quiet vindication: living justly is ultimately worth it, even in a city that kills its best citizen. Next week: a short break from Plato for Flannery O’Connor’s “The Lame Shall Enter First.”

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Harrison Garlick and Dr. Matthew Bianco of the Circe Institute discuss the second part of Plato's Gorgias--the dialogue between Socrates and Polus—Gorgias’ spirited, “colt-like” student who bursts in at 461b accusing his own teacher of being “too ashamed” to admit rhetoric needs no justice, only the power to persuade. Visit thegreatbookspodcast.com for our reading schedule.Visit our LIBRARY OF WRITTEN GUIDES to the great books.Visit our sister publication, THE ASCENT, for two spiritual lessons per week.What follows is pure Platonic fireworks: Socrates refuses long speeches, forces short questions, and delivers the unforgettable pastry-baker analogy (462–466a), branding rhetoric as mere flattery—like cookery or cosmetics for the soul—that “has no speech to give about the nature of the things” (465a). Polus agrees with several premises yet recoils when Socrates concludes that doing injustice is worse than suffering it, and the unpunished tyrant is the unhappiest man alive (478–479). The conversation spirals into a shocking vision of punishment as medicine for the soul: the wrongdoer should run to the judge “as to a doctor” (480b). Throughout, the hosts explore whether rhetoric itself is evil or only rhetoric divorced from philosophy, using the tripartite soul as a foothold—Gorgias as corrupted intellect, Polus as honor-craving thumos, Callicles (next week) as unashamed appetite—while Socrates models a just soul governing all three. Dr. Bianco brings fresh insight into Socrates’ tailored pedagogy and the happiness that only a philosophical rhetoric can truly serve.Key Themes & Search Tags:• Plato's Gorgias• Polus• Rhetoric vs Philosophy• Tripartite Soul• Doing injustice vs suffering injustice• Punishment as medicine• Pastry-baker analogy• Classical Education• Socrates pedagogy• Pleonexia• Happiness eudaimonia

"In war and battle, this is the way to do your part."Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Harrison Garlick is joined by the Athenian Stranger and Johnathan Bi to introduce the Gorgias and discuss the first part: the dialogue of Gorgias and Socrates.What begins as a polite inquiry into the nature of rhetoric erupts into a war for the soul of Athens—and for every reader seeking the good life. Visit thegreatbookspodcast.com for our reading schedule.Visit our COLLECTION OF GUIDES to the great books. Visit Athenian Stranger.Visit Johnathan Bi.Athenian Stranger frames the conflict as two competing “technologies” of speech: Gorgias’ art that grants “freedom for oneself and empire over everyone else” (452d) versus Socrates’ dialectical practice that knows “the natures and causes of things” (464b–465a). The dialogue’s three-part structure—shortest with reserved Gorgias, medium with spirited Polus, longest with shameless Callicles—spirals downward, exposing pleonexia (infinite grasping desire) beneath all three souls. Dcn. Harrison Garlick underscores the dialogue’s raw honesty: Athenian youth, like us, faced a nihilistic void after the gods’ decline, craving tyranny over truth. Philosophical gems abound—“better to be harmed than harm,” “better to be punished than escape justice”—while the pastry-baker analogy brands rhetoric without philosophy as mere flattery. The world that Socrates is engaging with is far more like our world than I think I realized… nihilism as a modern phenomenon? You see this really with the young men of Athens too.” - Dcn. Harrison Garlick“We all have erotic longings. The question is, they of the noble things that separate us from the beasts or are they of the bodily pleasures?” - Athenian StrangerNext episode: Polus defends raw power with Dr. Matthew Bianco (Circe Institute).

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Harrison Garlick and Dr. Daniel Wagner dive into Plato’s Meno as a masterclass in education, contrasting Meno’s stagnant, power-seeking sophistry with his slave boy’s humble, rapid learning during the famous geometry demonstration.Visit thegreatbookspodcast.com for our reading schedule.See our COLLECTION OF GUIDES on the great books.Check out our sister publication, THE ASCENT, for spiritual lessons.They explore aporia (perplexity) as a vital pedagogical tool requiring courage and humility, the theory of recollection as a rhetorical device rather than doctrine, and the distinction between stable knowledge (phronesis) and fleeting right opinion (doxa). Ultimately, virtue is teachable as knowledge, but demands active practice from the student—explaining why even great statesmen like Pericles failed to pass it to their sons. The dialogue emerges as a warning: don’t be a Meno; embrace the discomfort of not-knowing to pursue truth.“Don’t be a Meno.” - Dr. Wagner“Learning isn’t just rote memorization… it’s ordered toward nous – intellectual insight into reality.” - Dr. Wagner“Classical education is the best model of actually conforming the mind to reality." - Dcn. Harrison GarlickRead Plato’s Meno to see education in action: a proud sophist stays stuck while a humble slave boy learns geometry in minutes, proving that real learning demands courage, humility, and active pursuit of truth. It’s the perfect wake-up call—don’t be a Meno.

HALLOWEEN SPECIAL! In this episode, Deacon Harrison Garlick and Dr. Joseph Boyne explore G.K. Chesterton's short story 'The Chief Mourner of Marne,' discussing its themes, characters, and moral implications. Visit thegreatbookspodcast.com for our reading schedule!Check out our COLLECTION OF GUIDES TO THE GREAT BOOKS.They delve into the significance of transformative texts in education, the role of Father Brown as a detective, and the interplay between Gothic literature and Halloween motifs. The conversation highlights the importance of Christian charity and the complexities of forgiveness, ultimately reflecting on the deeper meanings within Chesterton's work and the nature of storytelling.Keywords: G.K. Chesterton, Father Brown, The Chief Mourner of Marne, Halloween, Gothic literature, Christian charity, transformative texts, literature analysis, podcast, education

The Phaedo is a beautiful dialogue! Join Deacon Harrison Garlick and Dr. Christopher Frey, McFarland Professor of Philosophy at the University of Tulsa, as they conclude their exploration of Plato’s Phaedo, a profound dialogue capturing Socrates’ final hours and his arguments for the soul’s immortality. Reading schedule and more!Collection of guides on the great books!In this episode, Dcn. Garlick and Dr. Frey dive into the second half of the text (72e–118a), unpacking the recollection and affinity arguments, objections from Simmias and Cebes, the concept of misology, the final cause argument, the myth of the afterlife, and Socrates’ enigmatic final words.Episode SegmentsRecollection Argument (72e–77a)Socrates argues that learning is recalling preexistent knowledge of forms: “Coming to know something… is actually recollecting.”Sense experience, like seeing equal sticks, triggers recollection of perfect forms.This suggests the soul exists before birth.The argument for forms is distinct from recollection.Affinity Argument (78b–80b)The soul resembles forms, being “divine, immortal, intelligible, uniform,” unlike the mutable body: “The body is… mortal, multiform, dissolvable.”Forms are simple and unchanging: “Beauty itself doesn’t change… It would have to be something that isn’t visible.”Riveting Image and the Philosophical Life (83d)Pleasures and pains “rivet the soul to the body and to weld them together."Socrates remains calm while others weep, embodying philosophical discipline: “He’s the philosopher… They’re too sunk, they’re too mired in that bodily.”Objections by Simmias and Cebes (84c–88b)Simmias’ harmony view posits the soul as an effect of bodily organization.Cebes’ cloak objection suggests the soul may wear out: “Why couldn’t there be a last time which… the soul does eventually wear out?”Socrates counters that the soul causes life, not the body.Misology and the Value of Argument (88c–89e)Socrates warns against misology, hating reasoned argument: “There’s no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse.”Final Cause Argument (95b–107a)Socrates’ autobiography reveals dissatisfaction with materialist explanations, seeking purpose.The soul’s essential life ensures immortality: “The soul is alive itself in a way that it can’t be taken away… As the fire cannot actually receive coldness, neither can the soul actually receive death.”Myth of the Afterlife (107d–114c)Describes a stratified earth with hollows and Tartarus.Souls face judgment or purgation.Details may not be literal but encourage virtue.Socrates’ Death and Final Words (114d–118a)Socrates drinks hemlock, called a “pharmacon."Final words suggest death as healing: “Crito, we ought to offer a cock to Asclepius… The malady for which he wants to be cured is embodied life itself.”Inspires hope, especially for Christians: “If someone like Socrates… can enter it with this much fortitude… how much greater should our hope be?”Key TakeawaysThe Phaedo’s arguments—recollection, affinity, and final cause—build a case for the soul’s immortality, though not airtight, urging a philosophical life: “The philosophical life is one in which you have to be comfortable with not knowing while still pursuing knowledge.”Socrates’ calm acceptance and final words reflect hope in truth beyond death, resonating with later traditions like the beatific vision.The myth of the afterlife encourages virtue through hope: “We can hope… The tyrants of this life are not going to win.”Follow us on X, YouTube, and Patreon for updates on upcoming episodes, including Plato’s Meno and Gorgias. Share your thoughts on Socrates’ final moments and join our community of great books enthusiasts!Visit thegreatbookspodcast.com!