Private Debt Investor Podcast

In this episode, we examine some headline-grabbing company failures such as First Brands, Tricolor and Carriox – and ponder what lessons and insights there might be for the private debt asset class. While private debt exposure may have been relatively limited in these instances, can the asset class be confident that it has its own house in order? Jiri Krol of the Alternative Investment Management Association and Alternative Credit Council acknowledges there is stress in the system – but believes that stress may have already peaked and that, in general, private debt has once again demonstrated its resilience in tough times. But Matthias Kirchgaessner of Plexus Research is not convinced that private debt is immune from concerns around troubled companies, with fierce competition among lenders meaning that some due diligence shortcuts may have been taken.

This episode is sponsored by Rithm Capital Asset-based finance is rapidly evolving within the world of private credit, offering investors a differentiated source of risk-adjusted returns. With the market valued at over $20 trillion, it underscores the vast scale and growing importance of this segment as investors seek alternative opportunities amid shifting economic conditions. In this episode, we speak to Michael Nierenberg, CEO of Rithm Capital, to discuss why asset-based finance is becoming more popular with investors. We analyse the opportunities ABF brings, while also exploring how managers are differentiating themselves in a competitive market.

This episode is sponsored by Nuveen The private debt industry continues to go from strength to strength, with several key segments of the market gaining further traction with institutional investors as they seek out strong returns in an uncertain macroeconomic environment. Both geography and strategy will be crucial to attract LPs in the coming months and years - Europe and the US each have significant market factors at play that will determine the trajectory and rate of private credit growth across both markets, while the infrastructure-focused investment-grade space is seeing strong dealflow despite volatility. In this episode, we speak to Randy Schwimmer, vice chairman and chief investment strategist at Churchill Asset Management; Laura Parrott, a senior managing director and head of the private fixed income group at Nuveen; and Michael Massarano, a partner and deputy CIO of Arcmont Asset Management, to find out more about the dynamics driving private debt activity across these three key segments.

This episode is sponsored by Arrow Global To be a successful player in the distressed lending market, one needs to understand the importance of timing. The current macroeconomic environment offers plenty of opportunities for distressed lenders looking to assist businesses struggling with market dislocation, bank retrenchment and policy uncertainty. However, lenders that look to take a more opportunistic approach to the strategy may not be able to deliver the kinds of returns sought by increasingly sophisticated investors. In this episode, we speak with Zach Lewy, founder, CEO, and chief investment officer of Arrow Global, to discuss the importance of taking a long-term view on potential targets and the opportunities and risks associated with the strategy. We also explore why default rates are no longer truly indicative of distress in the market and why lenders who have pan-European footprints are particularly well-placed to benefit from market dislocation.

Philip Sherrill, Blackstone's global head of insurance at the company's credit and insurance unit, joined to talk about why it chooses a "capital-light" approach to insurance investing. In addition, he expands on the growing homogenisation of how insurance investors access private credit, and how the policies they're underwriting influence that – across the globe.

Oaktree Capital Management’s announcement in early February that its Opportunities Fund XII had raised $16 billion – inclusive of co-investments and affiliated investment vehicles – represented the largest fundraise for an opportunistic/distressed debt fund to date. Brook Hinchman and Jared Parker – both managing directors and co-heads of North America for Oaktree’s Global Opportunities strategy, joined The Private Debt Investor Podcast to discuss the strategy and how a mixture of factors including tariffs, liability management exercises and the path forward for interest rates are influencing decision making as the fund’s investment phase is in full swing.

This episode first appeared on Secondaries Investor's Second Thoughts podcast, which you can subscribe to by clicking here, or searching wherever you listen to podcasts. Private credit secondaries has the potential to surpass private equity in deal volume over the longer term as more secondaries investors pursue yield and diversification amid market volatility. Over the past year, several billion-dollar-plus deals have emerged in the credit secondaries space, including Coller Capital's recent acquisition of a $1.6 billion portfolio from American National and TPG Angelo Gordon's $1.5 billion continuation fund. Firms like Coller, Pantheon, Apollo Global Management and Ares Management have also launched dedicated credit secondaries strategies. In this episode, Michael Schad, head of secondaries at Coller Capital, and Gerald Cooper, global co-head of secondaries advisory at Campbell Lutyens, speak with Secondaries Investor Americas correspondent Hannah Zhang about the evolution of the private credit secondaries market and where the next opportunities may emerge. "Most of the asset managers are sitting on tens of billions of NAV. So it lends itself to a secondary opportunity that is inevitably going to continue to grow and be of scale," Cooper said in the podcast. "I think as we look five to 10 years down the road, we are hopeful that we are going to see more specialised pockets of capital come into the space."

Over the last few years, talk of private credit’s “golden age” has grown louder, with predictions from various sources that the asset class could eventually grow to around $20-25 trillion in size from its current level of $2-3 trillion. Yet, fundraising has slowed since its peak in 2021. So was all the talk premature? Jess Larsen, founder and chief executive officer of private credit-focused placement agent Briarcliffe Credit Partners, believes that it was – but he also believes this is the year when a corner will be turned and private credit will start the journey that could see it one day become larger than private equity. In this episode, Larsen also shares his thoughts on direct lending and predicts that economy of scale will become all the more crucial, and could lead to the emergence of $100 billion evergreen mega-funds. On today’s hot topic of tariffs, he does not think signs of the investor response will start to emerge for another few months, but with volatility “the order of the day” in his words, he thinks it’s inevitable that LPs will focus on building all-weather portfolios that go well beyond the confines of direct lending.

This episode is sponsored by Rithm Capital The asset-based finance market is heating up, with a raft of private credit investors increasingly taking note of the strategy – and for good reason. Capable of delivering strong returns even in challenging macroeconomic environments due to its cashflow-oriented nature, ABF represents a rather unique offering for lenders and LPs alike. But contrary to what many might think, ABF is not a particularly new strategy. Michael Nierenberg is Chairman, Chief Executive Officer and President of Rithm Capital, a global asset manager focused on real estate, credit and financial services which makes direct investments and operates several wholly-owned operating businesses. In this episode, he explains how the market has evolved over his more than 30 years in the industry. He also discusses which industries are particularly well-positioned to benefit from ABF strategies and why he believes ABF is an area in which investors are underinvested.

Growing scale is one of the big themes in private debt as a small group of mega-sized GPs expand their platforms rapidly – both building on existing strategies like direct lending and colonising new areas such as asset-based lending and specialty finance. Among the largest of these managers is Goldman Sachs Asset Management, one of the early pioneers of the asset class. In this edition of The Private Debt Investor Podcast, we hear from James Reynolds, global co-head of GSAM’s private credit business, about how the addressable market is growing larger still – with $10 billion club deals now within the view of direct lenders. Reynolds explains why the firm has launched a climate credit strategy, arguing there is a large supply/demand imbalance in that area. He also discusses the blurring of the public and private markets, how managers are reaching out to large new pools of investor capital, why there is room for optimism around the M&A market, and the importance of focusing on underwriting rather than being distracted by the headlines.

Private debt's rapid growth is continuing to attract attention from junior professionals that are looking to make a career for themselves in this dynamic market. But how can they stand out from the crowd and prove their value in what is an increasingly competitive labour market? In November, Private Debt Investor unveiled its annual list of Rising Stars of Private Debt, which highlights the young professionals that are blazing a trail in the asset class. For this episode, we asked three of this year's cohort to reflect on their careers and share how they capitalised on opportunities that came their way over the course of their career, how they identified their areas of interest and what their advice would be for the next generation of private credit professionals. Listen as Hannah Roberts, special projects editor at PDI, speaks with Adam Baghdadi, a managing director in the lending team at Arrow Global; Priscilla Schnepper, an investment manager in the private credit team at the European Investment Fund; and Catherine Verri, a partner in the investor relations team at Carlyle, to get their top tips on how to succeed in this industry. See the full list of the Rising Stars of Private Debt here.

Last year, the European Commission launched a consultation seeking feedback on the functioning of the EU Securitisation Framework. Among those organisations submitting a response to this was the Alternative Credit Council, the body representing private credit asset managers led by global head Jiri Krol. The Private Debt Investor Podcast caught up with Krol to find out what was at the heart of the ACC’s response. The organisation believes there was an “overreaction” after the global financial crisis, placing severe regulatory burdens on the securitisation market, including the likes of private credit firms as well as banks and insurers. Krol believes a thriving securitisation market will provide welcome additional liquidity and a boost to the real economy, and he makes the case for deregulation in the face of unreasonably high demands in areas such as due diligence and transparency. The discussion also includes reflections on the ACC's latest Financing the Economy report, including the revelation that private debt has now become a $3 trillion industry.

This episode is sponsored by Golub Capital Private credit has enjoyed massive growth for more than a decade, but there are real questions about what happens when conditions are less favourable. How can lenders that launched during the good times continue to succeed when the market changes? David Golub of Golub Capital knows from experience. Golub Capital was founded 30 years ago and has performed well in all kinds of market conditions. One of Golub Capital’s strengths involves a ’good boring’ approach, which aims to minimise the excitement of market swings and focus on delivering consistently for its stakeholders. In this episode, David discusses Golub Capital's founding and its evolution through the financial crisis and the pandemic. We'll look at how cultivating close, long-term relationships with sponsors can improve every stage of the deal process, and why remaining focused on companies in resilient sectors where the firm has deep expertise has helped Golub Capital remain consistent, even in times of ‘bad interesting’.

This episode is sponsored by Sculptor Capital Management The last 24 months have been a period of uncertainty and volatility in credit markets, with rising inflation and higher interest rates putting borrower capital structures under pressure and making it difficult for lenders to price risk. These headwinds have proven challenging for mainstream lenders. But for opportunistic credit investors, it has provided a window to unlock attractive risk-adjusted returns in situations that are obscured by complexity. In this episode, we sit down with Jimmy Levin, the chief investment officer of Sculptor Capital, a global alternative investment manager with more than $20 billion of credit assets under management across corporate, asset based and real estate credit. He discusses the opportunistic credit investment opportunity set, reflects on how it’s reshaping old thinking about the credit default cycle, and explores other strategies – notably, asset based finance – that benefit opportunistic lenders who can operate free of constraints.

This episode is sponsored by Arrow Global Private debt has enjoyed sustained success in recent years, with private credit firms stepping in to fill the void left by the retreat of banks from their traditional lending role. The outlook for the asset class in Europe remains strong, as firms continue to find compelling opportunities, even in sectors that face market headwinds. A persistent supply-demand imbalance in the housing market across most European countries means that residential real estate is a particularly attractive sector for lenders. Changing work patterns are also giving a long-term boost to parts of the hospitality real estate sector, with southern European markets able to take advantage of a boom in demand. In this episode of the Private Debt Investor Podcast, Zach Lewy, founder and CEO of Arrow Global, discusses how asset-backed lending enables private credit firms to minimise risk while capitalising on emerging opportunities. Success, he notes, hinges on maintaining strategic discipline in a landscape ripe with potential.

This episode is sponsored by Bain Capital Asia’s credit markets are the largest in the world, yet they remain heavily bank dominated. While large blue-chip businesses are well serviced, there is a material undersupply of custom, fit-for-purpose capital for SMEs, mid-market businesses, and financial sponsors. This is creating a significant opportunity for direct lenders. Asia’s credit markets are also complex and nuanced, which places a premium on managers with the right networks, insights, and experience. In this episode of the Private Debt Investor Podcast, Bain Capital’s Andrew Schantz, discusses how to navigate Asian private credit and what the future holds for an asset class having a “golden moment” across the globe.

In this episode, Andy Thomson meets with Raymond Wright, a portfolio manager in private markets at the London Collective Investment Vehicles, which was established in 2015 as one of eight UK Local Government Pension Scheme asset-pooling companies. Wright discusses the organisation’s private debt-focused funds of funds and how he has gone about building portfolios through client collaboration – which, by his own admission, is a process that has challenged some of his assumptions around portfolio construction. He talks about why asset-based finance, secondaries and sustainability are all favoured areas currently, but also why he has concerns about an economic downturn and private debt’s possible systemic risk. To hear more of our episodes, head to privatedebtinvestor.com/podcast or you can search and subscribe to the Private Debt Investor Podcast wherever you like to listen.

This episode is sponsored by 17Capital NAV finance used to be a niche, little known corner of debt capital markets, but over the past 10 years it has evolved into a firmly established part of the private markets ecosystem. As NAV finance has moved into the mainstream, private capital managers have taken up NAV facilities in ever greater numbers to address a wide range of financing requirements. So, how are managers using NAV finance across their platforms, and how has the market navigated a cycle of rising inflation and interest rates? What do LPs think of NAV finance and what is the outlook for the industry in the next 12 to 24 months? In this episode, we sit down with 17Capital partner Dane Graham to discuss what has driven the NAV finance industry’s rapid growth over the last 10 years, unpack how managers are using NAV facilities at the portfolio company and fund level, and look ahead to what comes next following a period of higher interest rates and tighter liquidity.

This episode is sponsored by the Credit Investments Group (CIG) Private credit has expanded exponentially in recent years, with most citing the contraction in syndicated markets as the cause of that growth. But now those markets are opening back up, and questions linger about how that will affect private credit. So what do continued inflation and elevated interest rates mean for today's managers? What does private credit look like now, and how will it adapt to a new macroeconomic landscape? Will private credit shrink in the wake of access to public credit, or will the two co-exist to provide a full suite of financing options to their clients? In this episode, we'll look back at the causes of private credit's recent boom, how much of that boom might continue, and what the future of lending is likely to be in the coming years. We’re joined by Kevin Lawi, private credit portfolio manager and head of origination at the Credit Investments Group in UBS Asset Management (formerly known as Credit Suisse Asset Management), along with his colleague on the public side, David Mechlin, a US portfolio manager and member of the CIG Corporate Credit Committee.

This episode is sponsored by Blackstone Private credit has seen significant growth over the past year, with some of the largest asset managers increasing their allocations to the sector. It comes as volatile market conditions and geopolitical tensions have plagued most industries, revealing private debt as a more secure source of capital. So, how are firms looking to take advantage of this uptick in activity? And what areas will they be focusing on going forward? In this episode, we're joined by Blackstone’s Michael Zawadzki and Brad Marshall to explore some of the trends shaping private credit and analyse what the manager’s investment strategy looks like. The podcast comes after Blackstone integrated its corporate credit, asset-based finance and insurance groups into a single new unit called Blackstone Credit & Insurance (BXCI) in September.