Called to the Bar: International Law over Drinks

In this episode, host Dr Ntina Tzouvala is joined by Professor Ardi Imseis (Queen’s Law School, Canada) for a timely conversation about international law, the United Nations, and the long struggle for Palestinian statehood. As Western states — including Australia — formally recognize the State of Palestine at the current UN General Assembly, Professor Imseis brings a unique perspective as both scholar and practitioner. A former UN official with UNRWA and UNHCR, a member of the UN Commission of Inquiry on Yemen (2019–2021), and legal counsel in recent ICJ advisory proceedings on Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories, Imseis combines deep practical experience with rigorous scholarship. Drawing on his highly regarded 2023 book, "The United Nations and the Question of Palestine: Rule by Law and the Structure of International Legal Subalternity", Ardi and Ntina explore how the UN’s management of the “Palestine question” has reflected a persistent gap between international law’s promises and its political application. Their discussion considers whether the UN has upheld the rule of law - or merely rule by law —in sustaining what Ardi calls the*international legal subalternity of Palestine and its people. As always, these are informal conversations, reflecting the personal views of the participants and not those of their institutions or any other bodies with which they may have worked or with which they may currently be affiliated. Recommendations: Ardi Imseis, The United Nations and the Question of Palestine https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/united-nations-and-the-question-of-palestine/E8241B33B6C07028765E5E6785AF5CDE Edward Said, The Question of Palestine, https://www.amazon.com.au/Question-Palestine-Edward-W-Said/dp/0679739882 Rashid Khalidi, The Hundred Years War on Palestine, https://www.amazon.com.au/Hundred-Years-War-Palestine-Colonialism/dp/1250787653 Victor Kattan, From Coexistence to Conquest: International Law and the Origins of the Arab-Israeli Conflict 1891-1949, http://plutobooks.com/product/from-coexistence-to-conquest/ Noura Erakat, Justice for Some: Law and the Question of Palestine, https://www.sup.org/books/middle-east-studies/justice-some Ardi Imseis, Partition for Palestine Revisited: On the Origins of Palestine’s International Legal Subalternity, https://law.stanford.edu/publications/the-united-nations-plan-of-partition-for-palestine-revisited-on-the-origins-of-palestines-international-legal-subalternity/

Following Australia's expulsion of the ambassador of Iran for Iran's complicity in anti-semitic attacks, Dr Tamsin Phillipa Paige (Deakin Univeristy) sits down with former ambassador, and honorary ANU professor of international law, Matthew Neuhaus to talk through the legal implications. As usual, we begin with some background on Matthew's career path through international law (and favoured drink).

In this episode of Called to the Bar: International Law Over Drinks, host Associate Professor Ntina Tzouvala (UNSW Sydney) is joined by Dr Juliette McIntyre (University of South Australia) and guest Dr Victor Kattan (University of Nottingham) to explore the fraught question of judicial impartiality and recusal at the International Court of Justice. Prompted by Judge Julia Sebutinde’s controversial remarks in August 2025—suggesting she was “counting on the Lord to stand on the side of Israel” while sitting on the South Africa v. Israel genocide case – the panel dives into the rules of the ICJ Statute on recusals, impartiality, and whether judges can ever be removed from a case against their will. Drawing on Juliette’s procedure goblin insights and Victor’s expertise in ICJ history, the discussion revisits the South West Africa cases of the 1960s, where judicial ideology and political pressure collided in one of the Court’s most notorious recusal controversies. Alongside this, the conversation probes the tension between law, politics, and personal conviction in shaping the legitimacy of the world court. As always, these are informal conversations over drinks, reflecting the personal views of the participants and not those of their institutions. Recommendations: 1. On Spender: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/leiden-journal-of-international-law/article/abs/there-was-an-elephant-in-the-court-room-reflections-on-the-role-of-judge-sir-percy-spender-18971985-in-the-south-west-africa-cases-19601966-after-half-a-century/0F8164A4630662420062B787999C6AF1 2. On Khan: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/asian-journal-of-international-law/article/abs/decolonizing-the-international-court-of-justice-the-experience-of-judge-sir-muhammad-zafrulla-khan-in-the-south-west-africa-cases/21CEB7D6DFE3E72CDEB7EA293D37A570 3. On the UK and judge elections at the ICJ: https://law.unimelb.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/4019478/14Kattan-unpaginated.pdf 4. On judicial independence at the international level: https://find.library.unisa.edu.au/discovery/fulldisplay/alma9916026974801831/61USOUTHAUS_INST:ROR Music: Sam Barsh, Oils of Au Lait

In this episode of Called to the Bar: International Law Over Drinks, host Dr Tamsin Phillipa Paige is joined by Professor Rob McLaughlin and Dr Alonso Gurmendi Dunkelberg to unpack a troubling event: the U.S. military’s kinetic strike on a suspected drug vessel in the Caribbean resulting in the deaths of 11 people. The strike, ordered under President Trump for “deterrent” effect, has drawn widespread criticism and bizarre denials from the Venezuelan Government, which has gone so far as to claim video evidence of the incident is a deep fake. Together, the panel explores the (entirely lacking) legal basis for the strike, the blurring lines between the “war on terror” and the “war on drugs,” and the troubling precedent such an action sets. With U.S. rhetoric shifting from hypothetical strikes on cartels to lethal real-world operations, the conversation asks whether international law—and the frameworks of necessity, proportionality, and state sovereignty—have been left in the rear view mirror. As always, these are informal conversations, reflecting the personal views of the participants rather than their institutions. Recommendations: Firefly - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0303461/ Nimona - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt19500164/

Fifty episodes in, and we’re still going strong (and still without footnotes). In this special milestone edition of Called to the Bar: International Law Over Drinks, host Douglas Guilfoyle (Professor of International Law and Security, UNSW Canberra) is joined by the full crew: Dr Juliette McIntyre (University of South Australia), A/Prof Imogen Saunders (ANU Law School), A/Prof Tamsin Phillipa Paige (Deakin Law School), and A/Prof Ntina Tzouvala (UNSW Sydney). To mark our 50th outing, we flipped the format and handed the reigns to you, our listeners, who supplied the questions. From “How would you found your own State?” to “What procedural rule would you change at the ICJ?”, from fixing international law to picking our favourite PCIJ judges, the crew fields questions that are thoughtful, fun, and sometimes downright hard to answer without more coffee. Along the way we debate national animals, missing voices in international law, and even who should play us in the clearly inevitable Netflix series. Pour yourself a glass, join the conversation, and celebrate with us as Called to the Bar hits its half-century. Recommendations: On Australian treaty law: https://www.hcourt.gov.au/cases-and-judgments/judgments/judgments-2000-current/minister-immigration-and-multicultural-and-indigenous-affairs-v-b On Greek poetry: https://wordscene.wordpress.com/2019/08/12/the-last-stop-by-seferis/ What Douglas was wearing: https://bsky.app/profile/djag2.bsky.social/post/3ltjl5shjuc2x

What are the consequences of the International Court of Justice's recent Advisory Opinion on climate change, especially for the small island developing States who spearheaded this initiative? Associate Professor Ntina Tzouvala talks through the opinion and its consequences with two practitioner academics with deep knowledge of the proceedings: Associate Professor Margaretha Wewerinke-Singh of the Faculty of Law, University of Amsterdam who represented the Government of Vanuatu, and Dylan Asafo, Senior Lecturer at the Faculty of Law, University of Auckland, who represented the Government of the Cook Islands.

David Bowie once asked, is there life on Mars? Today we ask, is there life 3,000 metres or more below sea level – and what should international law do to protect it and regulate its exploitation? In this episode we are joined by Professor Joanna Mossop of the Faculty of Law, Victoria University of Wellington to discuss the 2023 Agreement under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea on the Conservation and Sustainable Use of Marine Biological Diversity of Areas beyond National Jurisdiction – known as the BBNJ Agreement or High Seas Treaty for short. Recommendations: D Bodansky, "Four Treaties in One: The Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction Agreement", https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/american-journal-of-international-law/article/four-treaties-in-one-the-biodiversity-beyond-national-jurisdiction-agreement/9AAFCE1E5F60EF1ABF83AC8DB3829605 Fran Humphries (ed), "Decoding Marine Genetic Resource Governance Under the BBNJ Agreement", https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-031-72100-7 Joanna Mossop and David Freestone, "The Agreement on Marine Biodiversity of Areas Beyond National Jurisdiction: Commentary and Analysis" https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-agreement-on-marine-biodiversity-of-areas-beyond-national-jurisdiction-9780198918578?cc=au&lang=en& Elizabeth Moon, Paksenarrion Series, https://www.goodreads.com/series/49608-paksenarrion

This week Ntina Tzouvala is joined by Juan Auz to discuss the Inter-American Court of Human Rights’ Advisory Opinion on the Climate Emergency. What is it, how did it come about and what's its significance? (Note: this episode was recorded before the ICJ advisory opinion on climate change was handed down.) Recommendations: Juan Auz, The Inter-American Court of Human Rights’ Advisory Opinion on the Climate Emergency: A Global South Contribution to Climate Governance, https://www.ejiltalk.org/the-inter-american-court-of-human-rights-advisory-opinion-on-the-climate-emergency-a-global-south-contribution-to-climate-governance/ Juan Auz, The Political Ecology of Climate Remedies in Latin America and the Caribbean, https://academic.oup.com/jhrp/article/16/1/182/7571304 Thea Riofrancos, The Security–Sustainability Nexus: Lithium Onshoring in the Global North Open Access, https://direct.mit.edu/glep/article/23/1/20/111308/The-Security-Sustainability-Nexus-Lithium Brett Christophers, The Price is Wrong: Why Capitalism Won't Save the Planet, https://www.versobooks.com/en-gb/products/3069-the-price-is-wrong?srsltid=AfmBOooLscbjPoSutKIMFM7mhnMXn2UBAFNVEScYMddvkkhT6YUgtOcU

This week we have a special episode recorded live at the Symposium Bar and Restaurant at the Australian National University as a side-event at the Australian and New Zealand Society of International Law annual conference. Douglas Guilfoyle, Tamsin Phillipa Paige, Imogen Saunders, Juliette McIntyre and Jessie Hohmann discuss methodology in international law scholarship: what is it, is it even possible and why does it freak lawyers out so much to talk about it?

Do you want a rock, DJ - or an island? This week the panel discusses the difference between rocks and islands in international law and why it matters, with special reference to the South China Sea case and subsequent legal arguments about archipelagoes. Tamsin Phillipa Paige chairs a discussion featuring co-hosts Douglas Guilfoyle and Imogen Saunders and special guest Tim Stephens. Recommendations: Alex P. Dela Cruz, Making History, Making Archipelagoes, https://www.latrobe.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/1673215/bs12.pdf Donald R Rothwell and Tim Stephens, The International Law of the Sea, https://www.bloomsbury.com/au/international-law-of-the-sea-9781509958382/ Imogen Saunders, 'The Limits of the Natural State Doctrine: Rocks, islands and artificial intervention in a changing world' in Rothwell and Letts (eds), Law of the Sea in South East Asia, https://www.routledge.com/Law-of-the-Sea-in-South-East-Asia-Environmental-Navigational-and-Security-Challenges/Rothwell-Letts/p/book/9781032240718 Douglas Guilfoyle, The South China Sea Award: How Should We Read the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea?, https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/asian-journal-of-international-law/article/south-china-sea-award-how-should-we-read-the-un-convention-on-the-law-of-the-sea/DD5B90D9438D8B3C55BC57EA6D8CD175 Micehlle Magorian, Goodnight Mister Tom (1981) William Golding, Lord of the Flies (1954) Music: Sam Barsh, Oils of Au Lait

Is the war on drugs literally a war? This week Douglas Guilfoyle discusses the supposed "unable and unwilling" doctrine that is said to justify the use of force against non-state actors in other states' territory with Tamsin Phillipa Paige and Ntina Tzouvala. In particular, we ask could this doctrine be used to justify a US strikes on drug cartels in Mexico or Nicaragua as a response to the opioid crisis? (Spoilers: no.) Music: Sam Barsh, Oils of Au Lait

This week Tamsin Phillipa Paige and Douglas Guilfoyle discuss the IDF's interdiction of the Madleen aid vessel bound for Gaza, the law of blockade in naval warfare, and its contested relationship with the crime of starvation. Sidebar: we discuss hypotheticals in cases of state responsibility for interdicting vessels at sea and the possibility of ITLOS hearing cases under UNCLOS - we should have noted in this particular case Israel is not a party to UNCLOS. Recommendations: Douglas Guilfoyle, The Mavi Marmara Incident and Blockade in Armed Conflict, https://academic.oup.com/bybil/article/81/1/171/329512 Phillip Drew, The Law of Maritime Blockade: Past, Present, and Future, https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-law-of-maritime-blockade-9780198808435 Music: Sam Barsh, Oils of Au Lait

What is it about piracy that causes international lawyers to lose all common sense? This week, in a twist on our “what everyone gets wrong about...” series, Juliette McIntyre talks to Douglas Guilfoyle and Tamsin Phillipa Paige about what drives them mad in piracy scholarship. And what is the crime of piracy, really? How old is it? And where does it come from? Fasten your seatbelts for a bumpy jurisprudential ride. Recommendations: Tamsin Phillipa Paige, “The Whore That Lost Everything”: The Tyranny of Law and the Queer Feminisation of Soft Power as Explored in Black Sails, https://www.degruyterbrill.com/document/doi/10.1515/pol-2023-2014/html Douglas Guilfoyle, The Laws of War and the Fight against Somali Piracy: Combatants or Criminals?, https://law.unimelb.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/1686284/Guilfoyle.pdf Black Sails (TV Series 2014–2017), http://imdb.com/title/tt2375692/ Our Flag Means Death (TV Series 2022–2023), https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11000902/

This week Dr Tamsin Phillipa Paige is joined by Matteo Bassetti and Manon Beury to examine the UK Supreme Court decision in For Women Scotland Ltd v The Scottish Ministers. In this case the Supreme Court ruled that a gender recognition certificate does not change a person's legal sex for the purposes of the 2010 Equality Act. The episode explores both the significant implications this has for the human rights of trans people but also asks - why do human rights courts seem to find trans rights so difficult?

Given the recent papal conclave, this week Juliette McIntyre discusses with Ntina Tzouvala and Douglas Guilfoyle two of the textbook 'oddities' of international law, the statehood of Vatican City and the sovereign order of the Knights of Malta. Content warning for darker themes towards the end of the episode. Recommendations: Brad Mehldau, Live in Tokyo (album) https://open.spotify.com/album/7sXzZ0Rdqz2VU62t4MtCfs Sinners (movie) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt31193180/ Music: Sam Barsh, Oils of Au Lait

Space law! What is it? This week Tamsin Phillipa Paige speaks to Stacey Henderson and Cris van Eijk to find out! Recommendations! On the 'other' bi- and plurilateral space treaties: • Jean-Frederic Morin, 'Space Actors and Governance Explorer' (2024) www.institutions.space. • Pauline Pic, Philippe Evoy and Jean-Frédéric Morin, ‘Outer Space as a Global Commons: An Empirical Study of Space Arrangements’ (2023) 17 International Journal of the Commons 288: https://doi.org/10.5334/ijc.1271. On the shifting critical geography of space-as-environment: • Valerie Olson and Lisa Messeri, ‘Beyond the Anthropocene: Un-Earthing an Epoch’ (2015) 6 Environment and Society 28: https://www.jstor.org/stable/26204949. • Lisa Ruth Rand, ‘Space Is the Place: Extraplanetary Disorder in Histories of Science’ (2024) 9 BJHS Themes 59: https://doi.org/10.1017/bjt.2024.27. On space environmentalism: • Alessandra Marino, ‘Astroenvironmentalism as SF: Bordering (and Ordering) Otherworldly Ecologies’ (2023) 15 Environmental Humanities 25: https://doi.org/10.1215/22011919-10216140. • The Center for Space Environmentalism (2025): https://www.spaceenvironmentalism.org. On the coloniality and colonial harms involved in space activity and space law: • Karlie Noon and Krystal de Napoli, Sky Country (Margo Neale ed, Thames and Hudson 2022), available here. • Cris van Eijk, ‘The Exclusive Making of Space Law’ [2025] Leiden Journal of International Law [FirstView]: https://doi.org/10.1017/S0922156524000554. On space archaeology: • In general: Alice Gorman, ‘Contact Zones and Outer Space Environments: A Feminist Archaeological Analysis of Space Habitats’ in James SJ Schwartz, Linda Billings and Erika Nesvold (eds), Reclaiming Space: Progressive and Multicultural Visions of Space Exploration (OUP 2023), 215-231: https://doi.org/10.1093/oso/9780197604793.003.0018. • On her recent collaboration on archaeology aboard the ISS: Justin St P Walsh and others, ‘Archaeology in Space: The Sampling Quadrangle Assemblages Research Experiment (SQuARE) on the International Space Station. Report 1: Squares 03 and 05’ (2024) 19 PLOS ONE e0304229: https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0304229. Fiction! • Maya Hoshimoto in Yume Kitasei's the Stardust Grail, available here. Animal pictures: Phasma: https://bsky.app/profile/staceyhenderson.bsky.social/post/3lb74z6agqk2d The Admiral: https://bsky.app/profile/pagingdrpaige.bsky.social/post/3lnxepmkvac23 Music: Sam Barsh, Oils of Au Lait

In this week's episode, Imogen Saunders talks to trade policy expert and author Dmitry Grozoubinski about President Trump's tariff policy. (If policy is not to strong a word.) K-Pop and Dungeons and Dragons may also rate a mention. Recommendations: Dmitry Grozoubinski, ‘Why Politicians Lie About Trade…’: https://www.amazon.com.au/Why-Politicians-Lie-About-Trade/dp/1914487117 If books could kill: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/if-books-could-kill/id1651876897; https://open.spotify.com/show/2khJBoF73ujIATWUFtSxLD#login Imogen Saunders: Populism, Backlash and the Ongoing Use of the World Trade Organization Dispute Settlement System: State Responses to the Appellate Body Crisis (for a history of the AB crisis): https://digitalcommons.law.umaryland.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1710&context=mjil Music: Sam Barsh, Oils of Au Lait

Book event! This week Ntina Tzouvala discusses queer encounters and queer engagements with international law with editors and authors Claerwen O'Hara and regular co-host Tamsin Phillipa Paige. In this episode, we explore what queer theory can teach us about international law — not just in relation to sexuality and gender, but as a tool for rethinking how law understands power, normativity, and difference. The panel discuss how queer approaches challenge the taken-for-granted assumptions and provide a lens for scholars, activists, and anyone seeking to reimagine justice on a global scale. Recommendations include: Claerwen O'Hara and Tamsin Phillipa Paige (eds), Queer Engagements with International Law: Times, Spaces, Imaginings (2025) https://www.routledge.com/Queer-Engagements-with-International-Law-Times-Spaces-Imaginings/OHara-Paige/p/book/9781032643229?srsltid=AfmBOopQ4BhJS8P5Sx0fkcZD4pz8XBIKCnEWp3DdMOjq0yHVENZL6Q7N Claerwen O'Hara and Tamsin Phillipa Paige (eds), Queer Encounters with International Law: Lives, Communities, Subjectivities (2025) https://www.routledge.com/Queer-Encounters-with-International-Law-Lives-Communities-Subjectivities/Paige-OHara/p/book/9781032643045?srsltid=AfmBOoqkHSdqyc4fQ48xhySmAdAE7aKg2Z4HYo8-FUMhjqI1qR__R7Pw Dianne Otto (ed), Queering International Law: Possibilities, Alliances, Complicities, Risks (2018) https://www.routledge.com/Queering-International-Law-Possibilities-Alliances-Complicities-Risks/Otto/p/book/9780367886370?srsltid=AfmBOorTJz0gAv0KP37mUXtHaOImyhKk1eP-kKI5Vp-BBqnEgjjLm5oc Music: Sam Barsh, Oils of Au Lait

This week we have another instalment in our "what everyone gets wrong about ..." classic cases series, focussing on the" Gabčíkovo-Nagymaros Project" or "Danube Dam" or "the great river heist" case. Tamsin Phillipa Paige explains to Imogen Saunders why this is much more than an environmental law case. Music: Sam Barsh, Oils of Au Lait

This week we are discussing the dramatic series of events that resulted in former President of the Philippines, Rodrigo Duterte, being transferred to the custody of the International Criminal Court. To discuss the case and its implications, we are joined by Ross Tugade and Dr Priya Pillai. Recommendations: The Filipino online news outlet Rappler: https://www.rappler.com/philippines/thing-to-know-prosecutor-vs-rodrigo-duterte-icc/ ; Patricia Evangelista, "Some People Need Killing", https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/612869/some-people-need-killing-by-patricia-evangelista/ ; The Philippines Commission on Human Rights 2022 report on killings in the ant-illegal drug campaign, https://chr2bucket.storage.googleapis.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/08154849/CHR-National-Report-April-2022-Full-Final.pdf ; "On the President's orders", https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/on-the-presidents-orders/. Music: Sam Barsh, Oils of Au Lait