What Came After

In this episode, I traveled to Seattle back in September to sit down with Dr. Devin Naar, a professor of Sephardic Studies at the University of Washington.  Recording this interview was difficult for me. I’ve envisioned this podcast as a way to chronicle history in real time — to capture, through long-form conversations, the vastness and intensity of the post–October 7th landscape for Jews around the world, and for many others as well. Until now, the voices I’ve centered have largely been those of self-described Zionists — people who, in the wake of an indescribably cruel and harrowing attack on Israel, have faced a wave of vitriol, intolerance, hostility, and even violence.  But if this project is truly to document this moment in all its complexity, it also has to include non-Zionist voices — and we need to recognize explicitly that there is no single Jewish Community, but- as has always been the case-- Jewish CommunitieS. The word Israel in Hebrew- Yisrael-- means to wrestle. We usually think about this in reference to wrestling with God. But the truth is, we wrestle one another also.  I’m not interested in speaking with anyone who uses a non- or anti-Zionist stance as a rejection of dialogue — as a reason to hurl slogans, to deny the humanity or intelligence of people (like me) who are Zionists, or to justify acts of terror. But as we all navigate what I hope is a post-war reality, I believe that staying engaged — especially with those we perceive as the “Other” — is a skill that those of us who live in a multiplicity of Jewish communities will need to cultivate--  for our civility, for our integrity, and, in some ways, for our survival. We’ve chosen to present this interview in two parts — exactly as it unfolded. At the end of this first installation, you’ll hear, as I did, that Devin seems unsettled, that there’s more he wants to say. After wrapping up, we turned the microphones back on and continued the conversation, which you’ll hear in part two. This interview may be challenging to listen to — just as it was challenging for me to record. But I hope you’ll stay with it, and imagine what it might be like to have a similar conversation with someone, maybe someone close to you, who has provoked in you a sense of discomfort or distress or even betrayal over these past two long years.   Credits: Host and Creator: Manya Marcus Managing Producer: Eli Akselrod Editor and Producer: Ben Wallick Editor 2: Eli Akselrod Logo Design: Samuel Vilemar Outro Music: Syete dias enserrados by David Haim Listen on ⁠Spotify⁠ or ⁠Apple Music⁠

This past September, What Came After host Manya Marcus sat down with Jojo and Yoni Kalin, a married couple from Washington, D.C., who were present at the Capital Jewish Museum on the tragic evening of May 21, 2025 — the night two Israeli embassy staffers, Sarah Milgrim and Yaron Lischinsky, were murdered by a man who, when apprehended, shouted, “I did it for Palestine, I did it for Gaza.” Jojo had helped organize the event that night — the American Jewish Committee’s annual Young Diplomats Reception. The theme was “Turning Pain into Purpose,” focusing on humanitarian diplomacy and efforts to build bridges amid the Israel–Hamas conflict. The murders that followed felt unbearably senseless and stood in stark contrast to the spirit of the evening. In this conversation, Jojo and Yoni reflect on their experiences that night — including their brief, bewildering interactions with the attacker — and how they’ve processed the trauma since. Jojo, who converted to Judaism, shares how this tragedy deepened her commitment to the Jewish faith and community, even as she wrestles with fears about raising future children in a tradition that can carry such risk. She also speaks about becoming a conversion mentor and her admiration for those choosing Judaism in the wake of October 7th. Yoni, raised in a progressive Jewish home steeped in interfaith dialogue and activism, describes a growing sense of political homelessness after October 7th, and how he has grappled with what he calls the “hardening of [his] heart” since May 21st — as he comes to terms with the painful realization that, in America in 2025, being Jewish can come at a very steep cost.   Credits: Host and Creator: Manya Marcus Managing Producer: Eli Akselrod Editor and Producer: Ben Wallick Editor 2: Eli Akselrod Logo Design: Samuel Vilemar Outro Music: Noah · האילנות 41 Listen on ⁠Spotify⁠ or ⁠⁠Apple Music   

This past December, I sat down with Benjamin Rogers, Deputy Director of the AJC Center for a New Middle East. Benjy and I spoke about the future of Israel’s relationships with its Arab neighbors in the wake of October 7, and how he hoped the Abraham Accords will continue to evolve. Benjy discussed Israel’s potential as a strategic partner to countries across the region confronting shared challenges such as economic instability, water insecurity, and climate change. Despite ongoing tensions, Benjy remains hopeful that necessity will continue to drive progress toward normalization and regional collaboration. He also reflected on the personal impact of tragedy—the May 2025 murders of Israeli Embassy staffers Sarah Milgrim and Yaron Lischinsky; Benjy felt particularly close with Yaron. Benjy speaks about the evening of the murder, how he and others are processing the senselessness of the tragedy, and how he continues to navigate what it means to live, work, and identify as a Jew in this complex moment in history.   Credits: Host and Creator: Manya Marcus Managing Producer: Eli Akselrod Editor and Producer: Ben Wallick Editor 2: Eli Akselrod Logo Design: Samuel Vilemar Outro Music: Olam Chesed Yibaneh · Rabbi Menachem Creditor · David Paskin Listen on Spotify or Apple Music 

This past September, I had the pleasure of traveling to New York City to sit down with Deena Margolies, a staff attorney at the Louis D. Brandeis Center for Human Rights Under Law. The Brandeis Center—unaffiliated with Brandeis University—provides legal advocacy for individuals affected by Title VI violations, with a particular focus on those targeted for their Jewish or Zionist identity in academic settings, from elementary schools to universities, including students, faculty, and staff. In our conversation, Deena shares what inspired her journey from entertainment law to civil rights advocacy, where she now represents victims of antisemitism. She explains the scope of Title VI, unpacks the distinction between free speech and harassment, and recounts powerful stories of college students who risked their social standing to defend themselves and their peers. Deena also reflects on why her current work keeps her every bit as busy—and fulfilled—as her earlier legal career. Please join me for this timely conversation.   Host and Creator: Manya Marcus Managing Producer: Maya Zanger-Nadis Editor and Producer: Ben Wallick Logo Design: Samuel Vilemar Outro Music: "Basheket Sheli" by Anat Malamud Listen on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Music⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

This past July, I had the privilege of sitting down with Yossi Held, Executive Director of Stand With Us Midwest. In our conversation, Yossi discussed the dual mission of Stand With Us: to educate the public about Israel and Judaism in order to counter widespread misinformation, and to provide legal support for individuals impacted by antisemitism—particularly in educational settings, from elementary schools to graduate programs. Yossi reflects on how the small size of the Jewish community leaves it in a constant struggle to stay afloat against antisemitism—an undercurrent that has always existed but has now erupted into an undeniable force in society. He also talks about his personal journey through profound loss and resilience: navigating the aftermath of October 7th while caring for his terminally ill husband. Yossi shares how, in the midst of this storm of communal and personal adversity, his work at Stand With Us became his solace.  Host and Creator: Manya Marcus Managing Producer: Maya Zanger-Nadis Editor and Producer: Ben Wallick Logo Design: Samuel Vilemar Outro Music: "Boom Boom Blossom" by Elijah Aaron Listen on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Music⁠⁠⁠⁠

On September 17, 2025, Manya Marcus spoke with Raphael Herbst, a senior paramedic with Magen David Adom (MDA) and head of its Emotional Resilience Program, at the offices of American Friends of Magen David Adom in New York City. Raphael discusses MDA’s vital role in Israeli society—from delivering world-class emergency care across the country to leading national responses to crises such as the COVID-19 pandemic, terror attacks, the 12-day war with Iran, and the October 7, 2023 massacre in southern Israel. He also highlights MDA’s technological innovations, like using WhatsApp to guide patients before medics arrive and securing blood banks as strategic national assets. Raphael shares his personal journey, including his response to a 2001 terror attack and how it inspired his commitment to fostering emotional resilience among MDA staff through peer-to-peer support.   Host and Creator: Manya Marcus Managing Producer: Maya Zanger-Nadis Editor and Producer: Ben Wallick Logo Design: Samuel Vilemar Outro Music: "Oh My Soul" by Nuriel Listen on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Music⁠⁠⁠

Welcome to What Came After. Today is October 22, 2025. While much remains uncertain in Israel, one thing is clear: the emotional recovery of an entire nation coping with collective trauma will be a long and complex process. In this episode, I speak with several remarkable people from Ripples of Healing, a therapeutic program that helps individuals process trauma through guided immersion in water. It’s a powerful, innovative and effective approach. We'll explore the therapy itself, as well as the personal journeys of several people who've been transformed by it. --------- Yitzchak (Itzik) Rabinovitz An electronic engineer and graduate of the University of Illinois, Itzik immigrated to Israel 47 years ago and has since devoted his career and life to strengthening Israel’s defense — both through his service in the IDF and his work in the defense industry. He and his wife, Channa, are proud parents of five children and grandparents to 29. During Operation Iron Swords, four of Itzik’s sons and his son-in-law served on active reserve duty, each contributing over 400 days in defense of the nation. ----------- Tzviki Barkai Age 37, husband and father of two daughters. During his military service in Gaza (Operation Cast Lead), Tzviki was shot in the head by a sniper and critically wounded. After undergoing treatment at Einot Bar, he experienced a profound personal transformation and chose to dedicate his life to helping others heal. Today, Tzviki serves as the CEO of Advot Marpeh (Ripples of Healing), a nonprofit organization operating within the Einot Bar ecosystem. He leads with deep commitment to expanding care and rehabilitation for trauma survivors. ----------- Einat Sarfati Cohen Founder of Einot Bar, Israel’s leading center for growth through crisis. For the past decade, Einot Bar has been operating as an integrative healing center located in the heart of the Negev Desert, offering innovative programs that combine mind, body, and spirit. Einat is a mother of three and the founder of the community of Giv’ot Bar, which became a model for sustainable living and regional development that transformed the Negev and the Galilee over the past twenty years. Since October 7th, Einat has been working tirelessly in Israel and abroad to support soldiers and civilians recovering from trauma. The integrative medical model she developed at Einot Bar has been recognized as a leading approach in Israel for trauma recovery and holistic rehabilitation. -------------- Host and Creator: Manya Marcus Managing Producer: Maya Zanger-Nadis Editor and Producer: Ben Wallick Logo Design: Samuel Vilemar Outro Music: "And The Waves" by Menachem Halevi and Nuriel Listen on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Music⁠⁠⁠⁠  

Simon Deng is a former slave from South Sudan, human rights activist, public speaker, and professional swimmer. He has lived in the United States since 1989 and has been a leader of the South Sudanese expatriate community since 1993. ⁠⁠ Host and Creator: Manya Marcus Managing Producer: Maya Zanger-Nadis Editor and Producer: Ben Wallick Logo Design: Samuel Vilemar Outro Music: "Jerusalem" by Elijah Aaron Listen on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Music⁠⁠⁠ ⁠

In February, What Came After sat down with the Chief Rabbi of Poland and native New Yorker, Michael Schudrich. Their conversation was recorded in Warsaw, where Rabbi Schudrich has lived and worked for the past 35 years. Host Manya Marcus speaks with Schudrich about his personal journey to Poland, how there are many more Jews- or those with Jewish heritage- who live in Poland than anyone realized or expected when Schudrich took his post in 1990, and how Poland’s Jewish community is growing to include more Poles whose Jewish parents, grandparents and great grandparents stayed in Poland after the war and chose not to share with their own families that they were Jewish. Schudrich speaks to the process of self-discovery among these community members, as well as the need for the broader international Jewish community to recognize and support the Jewish life that has not only survived in Poland, but begun to thrive. Schudrich talks about the Polish response to October 7th, and how, in the wake of the tragedy, more Polish Jews have come out of the woodwork and chosen to live Jewish lives.     Host and Creator: Manya Marcus Managing Producer: Maya Zanger-Nadis Editor and Producer: Ben Wallick Logo Design: Samuel Vilemar Outro Music: "It's Never Too Late" by Elijah Aaron Listen on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠ ⁠or ⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Music⁠⁠

Mino is a Roman entrepreneur and restaurateur with deep roots in the culinary world, shaped by his family’s experience in the industry. He manages two establishments: Casalino Osteria, a kosher restaurant, and a bakery-café, Dolce Kosher. Through his work, he combines tradition and innovation, creating welcoming spaces where people can enjoy great food and hospitality. Beyond the kitchen, Mino is passionate about curating special events and menus that highlight seasonal ingredients and Italian culinary heritage.   Host and Creator: Manya Marcus Voice Acting: Matt Marcus Managing Producer: Maya Zanger-Nadis Editor and Producer: Ben Wallick Logo Design: Samuel Vilemar Outro Music: "Osim Shuk" by Noa (Achinoam Nini) Listen on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠ or ⁠⁠⁠Apple Music⁠⁠

Ruth Dureghello was born in Rome on July 5, 1967. She earned a law degree from the University of Rome La Sapienza and went on to pursue a career in entrepreneurial activities. Married with two children, Ruth led the “For Israel” party as its presidential candidate for the Council of the Jewish Community in Rome in 2015. She won 44.08% of the total vote and, following the Council’s recommendation, became the first woman to serve as President in the history of the Roman Jewish Community. Re-elected by a wide majority in 2019, she led the Jewish Community of Rome until June 2023. Host and Creator: Manya Marcus Managing Producer: Maya Zanger-Nadis Editor and Producer: Ben Wallick Logo Design: Samuel Vilemar Outro Music: "Shir L'Shalom" by Lehakat HaNachal Listen on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠ or ⁠Apple Music⁠

Listen to our conversation with ELNET CEE (Central and Eastern Europe) featuring: Anna Miszewska, Deputy Director Joanna Olszewska, Project Manager Marta Kubica, CEO   Host and Creator: Manya Marcus Managing Producer: Maya Zanger-Nadis Editor and Producer: Ben Wallick Logo Design: Samuel Vilemar Outro Music: "Old Polish Tango in Hebrew" by Olga Mieleszczuk Listen on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠  

Arie Bensemhoun has been the Chief Executive Officer of Elnet France since 2011. He has made his career in the private sector as a consultant in communications, PR, and international relations, dealing with Middle Eastern and strategic affairs. He plays a crucial role in the French-Israeli relationship through his commitment at both the community and political levels. He seeks to strengthen ties between political leaders from France and Israel who believe that close relations between Europe and Israel are vital to both parties.   Host and Creator: Manya Marcus Managing Producer: Maya Zanger-Nadis Editor and Producer: Ben Wallick Logo Design: Samuel Vilemar Outro Music: "Nigun Ga'agu'a" by Elnatan Listen on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Music⁠⁠⁠⁠

Marta Kubica is the Chief Executive Officer of ELNET CEE (Central and Eastern Europe), driven by a passion for strengthening ties between Europe and Israel through innovative diplomacy. After five years in the role, Marta sees ELNET as more than just an organization facilitating delegations or strategic dialogues; it is about creating a safe space for open conversation and building trust. With over 18 years of experience, including work at both the U.S. and Israeli embassies in Poland, she skillfully brings people together, applying her background in Jewish studies and political science to bridge cultural divides and foster mutual understanding. Marta is currently focused on developing innovative diplomatic initiatives that support resilience, civil defense, and crisis management, including aiding Ukrainian refugees—a testament to her belief in the power of human connection and collaborative problem-solving.   Host and Creator: Manya Marcus Managing Producer: Maya Zanger-Nadis Editor and Producer: Ben Wallick Logo Design: Samuel Vilemar Outro Music: "Goral Ehad" by Ofra Haza Listen on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Music⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  

In this special episode, What Came After presents an audio travelogue from the team’s trip to Paris this past January. Join our summer intern, Keren Glicksman, as she interviews host Manya Marcus about the experience, and listen to on-the-ground recordings from Manya and producer Maya Zanger-Nadis as they navigate the city during a particularly challenging moment in Jewish history.   Host and Creator: Manya Marcus Managing Producer: Maya Zanger-Nadis Editor and Producer: Ben Wallick Logo Design: Samuel Vilemar Outro Music: "Une Petite Cantate" by Talya Eliav Listen on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Music⁠⁠⁠⁠

Rabbi Emile Ackermann is the co-founder, together with his wife, Rabbanit Myriam Ackermann-Sommer, of Ayeka in Paris — the first Liberal Modern Orthodox community in France. Born in Strasbourg and a graduate of Yeshivat Chovevei Torah, he holds a BA in Administration Économique et Sociale. Rav Emile is also deeply engaged in French political life. He is the author of N’oublions pas qui nous sommes (Let Us Not Forget Who We Are), in which he shares his vision of Modern Orthodoxy, reflects on his time at Yeshivat Chovevei Torah, and explores his perspective on laïcité in France — a subject at the heart of many public debates. A regular guest in national media, he often defends and articulates the Jewish voice in the French public sphere. Rav Emile is also a trainer in the fight against antisemitism, providing education for French political parties as well as Jewish youth organizations. Committed to interfaith dialogue, he frequently speaks at multicultural and multi-faith events across the country.   Host and Creator: Manya Marcus Managing Producer: Maya Zanger-Nadis Editor and Producer: Ben Wallick Logo Design: Samuel Vilemar Outro Music: "Pa'am" by Anat Malamud Listen on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Music⁠⁠⁠⁠

What Came After traveled to Brussels this past January to sit down with Juan Caldes at the headquarters of the European Jewish Association. Juan, the European Advocacy Coordinator, spoke with us about the alarming rise in antisemitism across Western Europe—and why he believes this trend hasn’t taken hold in Eastern Europe in the same way. He shares some of the difficult personal decisions he's made in response to the worsening security climate, including the painful choice to affix his mezuzah to the inside of his door, shielding his Jewish identity from public view. Juan also reflects on his experience as a convert to Judaism at such a turbulent time. Born and raised in Spain as a devout Catholic, he discovered at age 18 that he had Marrano Jewish ancestry. That revelation led him on a transformative journey to Judaism, which he studied extensively while living in Israel. Now a proud European Jew, Juan speaks candidly about why—despite significant adversity—he remains committed to defending the idea that Jews are not only a vital part of Europe’s past, but also its future.           Host and Creator: Manya Marcus Managing Producer: Maya Zanger-Nadis Editor and Producer: Ben Wallick Logo Design: Samuel Vilemar Outro Music: "Change" by Nuriel Listen on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Music⁠⁠⁠

What Came After traveled to Amsterdam in February to speak with Rabbi Akiva Camissar about his experiences working with the city’s Israeli Jewish community in the wake of two deeply traumatic events: the October 7th attacks in Israel and the violent pogrom against visiting Israeli soccer fans in Amsterdam in November 2024. Rabbi Camissar shares how the events of October 7th created a profound shift in his community. Made up largely of Israeli expats, the community became more tightly knit, with members drawing strength and solidarity from one another. That sense of unity proved crucial a year later, when anti-Israel violence erupted in Amsterdam. With no warning, the community mobilized and improvised rescue systems that helped protect and evacuate scores of Israelis who were in danger. He speaks movingly about the importance of maintaining a vibrant Jewish presence in Amsterdam and how he believes that the future of the city’s Jewish life lies with its growing Israeli population. Rabbi Camissar also offers a powerful reflection on Simchat Torah 2023, which coincided with the attacks on October 7th. As news of the massacre emerged, he made a deliberate choice: his community would still dance. Even in the face of horror, they would continue the tradition of dancing with the Torah—an act of spiritual defiance and hope. Long before the phrase “We Will Dance Again” became a symbol of resilience after the Nova music festival massacre, Rabbi Camissar had already claimed the powerful sentiment for his community. This episode offers a poignant look at how faith, community, and identity can become sources of strength in moments of fear and uncertainty—and how, even in the darkest times, Jewish life endures.    Host and Creator: Manya Marcus Managing Producer: Maya Zanger-Nadis Editor and Producer: Ben Wallick Logo Design: Samuel Vilemar Outro Music: "On Our Way" by Elijah Aaron Listen on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Music⁠⁠

In this episode, we travel to Paris to speak with Anna Veronese, a rabbinical student at Maharat—the only institution offering both Orthodox ordination to women and virtual learning, creating a global community she deeply values. We talk about Veronese's identity as a feminist, left-wing Jew who remains a committed Zionist while being selectively critical of some Israeli policies. She shares how the trauma of October 7 continues to shape her parenting, as her children form their own Jewish and Zionist identities. She also reflects on the tension between wanting to shield her children from tragedy and embracing the solidarity shown at their Jewish school with hostage families and Israeli society at large. Veronese opens up about her complex sense of belonging—born in Italy, living in France amid rising antisemitism, and not being Israeli. She describes the pain of losing ties to the French feminist community and tells a shocking story of being cast out of a feminist march for being a Zionist. She wrestles with her belief in the importance of a vibrant Jewish future in France, even as she doubts whether the next generation can truly thrive there. Host and Creator: Manya Marcus Managing Producer: Maya Zanger-Nadis Editor and Producer: Ben Wallick Logo Design: Samuel Vilemar Outro Music: "Mar'ot" by Anat Malamud Listen on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Music⁠⁠⁠  

Earlier this year, What Came After traveled to Brussels for a sobering conversation with Rihards Kols, Latvia’s Member of the European Parliament. Recorded inside one of the European Parliament’s media studios, this interview confronts a chilling possibility: that the world may be repeating the darkest chapters of the 20th century. Kols offers an unflinching look at how his own country has confronted Russian aggression, and how the invasion of Ukraine by a nuclear-armed autocracy has emboldened others—China, North Korea, and Iran among them. He draws a direct line from Russia’s war in Ukraine to Iran’s support of Hamas’s attack on Israel—both sovereign nations under siege. As the world grapples with rising authoritarianism, Kols warns of the West’s dangerous complacency. He challenges the belief that dialogue alone can deter autocratic threats and criticizes the hesitation of democratic nations to provide meaningful support to those on the front lines—especially Ukraine and, more recently, Israel. Recorded in January 2025, several months before the outbreak of the Israel-Iran war, this conversation now resonates with eerie urgency. Kols’s words offer one glimpse of hope: history will warn us, rather than repeating itself, if we are willing to listen.    Host and Creator: Manya Marcus Managing Producer: Maya Zanger-Nadis Editor and Producer: Ben Wallick Logo Design: Samuel Vilemar Outro Music: "All We See" by Nuriel Listen on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Music⁠⁠⁠