Covenant & Conflict

When Nic graduated high school, nobody asked him what his stance was on Israel. Today, every teenager feels they need to take a position. Who can they trust to portray a balanced view?On this episode of Covenant & Conflict, Nic and his wife Tabatha talk about why Israel has become a stumbling block for Gen Z Christians, and why antisemitism tends to surface when a society is in distress. Nic says he never expected to hear pre-Holocaust rhetoric go mainstream this early in his life. They also raise a harder question: what happens to a young believer’s faith when they turn against the land that makes the Bible concrete?What we cover in this episode:Lost trust, loneliness, and the pressures on young adults todayThe political horseshoe theory and where the far left and far right meetHow extreme voices validate your pain and then hand you an enemyAntisemitism as a symptom of a culture in declineAnswering a false story with the Gospel rooted in God’s covenant with AbrahamOne question you can ask someone that blames the Jewish peopleCHAPTERS:00:00 Why Israel trips up Gen Z01:34 Welcome and why young adulthood is hard09:51 Israel as a stumbling block11:14 Why young people drift toward extremes21:55 The blame trap and the victim mindset29:24 Antisemitism as a symptom of decline32:56 Answering a story with a better story

The gospel outline most of us learned jumps from creation straight to Jesus in the New Testament. Our kids inherit the missing storyline in the Bible and it shapes how they see Israel.On this episode of Covenant & Conflict, Nic sits down with his wife Tabatha, who holds a master’s in practical theology with a concentration in the land of the Bible. Their advice for parents starts before any theology: bring your kids into the story of Scripture, where Abraham’s family is at the center, Jesus was and still is Jewish, and Jewish people brought the gospel to us. They also name the small habits that keep the blind spot alive, like calling it the “Old” Testament.What we cover in this episode:• What a 14-year-old is hearing from classmates at a Christian schoolIsrael and the nations, and why we are the nations• The family language the Bible uses and the institutional language we use• Jeremiah 31, Romans 11, Ephesians 3, and Psalm 83 to read together• What “Zionist” and “Israel” mean when your kids hear them at school• Staying caring, curious, and committed to God’s word in the conversation00:00 Identity is formed in the story01:18 Meet Tabatha and why this conversation matters09:11 Start with Israel and the nations14:33 The blind spot we pass down28:01 Scriptures to read with your kids45:41 What “Zionist” and “Israel” actually mean52:43 Closing thoughts and prayer

In 1999, Wayne Wilks had a vision in a Budapest hotel room. Seventeen years later, on a balcony in that same city, he had another one... and it became Gateway Center for Israel.Nic Lesmeister sits down with Wayne to trace the whole story: an altar in Amarillo where a missions call turned into a lifelong love for the Jewish people, a festival in Odessa that filled a new Bible institute with purpose, and a moment in Ethiopia that quietly pointed toward who'd carry it all forward. They walk through decades of open doors, prophetic words, and one visa that cleared as the plane was boarding.What we cover in this episode:Wayne's 1982 altar moment in Amarillo and the Ezekiel study that reframed "to the Jew first"The 1996 Odessa festival and the Isaiah 37 visa storyEthiopia's ancient Jewish community and Zimbabwe's Lemba tribeThe Ethiopia courtyard moment that pointed toward NickThe Budapest balcony vision and the founding of Gateway Center for IsraelChapters0:00 Why Israel Is Key to Reaching the Nations4:54 Wayne’s Call to Missions9:31 A New Revelation About Israel16:52 The Calling That Led to Ukraine32:17 A Life-Changing Encounter in Ethiopia48:47 The Birth of Gateway Center for Israel59:03 What’s Next for the Church and Israel

"If you walk out those doors, you're not coming back home." She walked out anyway, and that was only the beginning.On Covenant and Conflict, Trysten Tice tells David how a secular Jewish teenager from South Florida ended up asked to leave home for believing in Jesus, and what it cost her to keep going. She traces the years of persecution, the questions across the kitchen table, and the slow way her own family's hearts began to turn.What we cover in this episode:• Growing up culturally Reform Jewish, with faith as identity rather than belief• The church service where she wept and couldn't explain why• Praying "if Jesus is the truth, answer me" and watching her desires change• Being told to leave home, and the friends who took her in• Canceling her own baptism to honor her mother, then baptized in the Jordan RiverChapters00:00 From Jewish to Following Jesus01:55 Growing Up Jewish Without Knowing God04:20 The Church Service That Changed Everything09:41 How Reading the Bible Changed My Life13:54 Kicked Out for Following Jesus20:25 Baptized in the Jordan River26:39 How My Entire Family Found Jesus

Does God still have a covenant with Israel? Is the Church the "new Israel"? And is every Christian who supports Israel automatically a dispensationalist?In this episode of the Covenant & Conflict Podcast, Nicholas Lesmeister and David unpack one of the most misunderstood topics in modern Christian theology. They explain what dispensational theology actually teaches, how it differs from Olive Tree theology, and why these distinctions matter for understanding Scripture.The conversation also explores the resurgence of antisemitism after October 7, the relationship between Israel and the Church, Romans 11, replacement theology, and why the Bible's story doesn't end with Israel being replaced—it ends with all nations being grafted into God's redemptive plan through Jesus.Whether you've wrestled with covenant theology, end-times prophecy, or simply want a more biblical framework for understanding Israel, this episode offers a thoughtful, nuanced conversation rooted in Scripture.Chapters:00:00 The Israel Test02:06 Why Antisemitism Is Rising Again15:07 What Is Dispensational Theology?26:26 Does God Still Have a Covenant with Israel?39:30 The Israel Test Explained43:45 Why Israel Changes Everything53:48 Why This Conversation Matters