The Esau McCaulley Podcast

In the wake of Charlie Kirk’s assassination, Americans are left reeling. The violence is shocking and upsetting, but it also reveals the depth of our country’s divides. Esau is joined by Christina Edmondson of Truth’s Table to reflect on what this moment means for the church and the wider culture. They consider the tension between honoring Kirk’s dignity and confronting his harmful rhetoric, why Black Christians experience these events differently, and what it means to love enemies without excusing injustice.   0:00 - Theme Song   1:34 - Being a Pastor During the Charlie Kirk Assassination   11:38 - Threats Towards Black Schools   31:07 - Sponsor - God’s Colorful Kingdom Storybook Bible - Available now, a kid’s storybook Bible from Esau McCaulley: https://a.co/d/hVy8aUl   32:51 - Student Evaluations Disrupting Colleges?   48:45 - End Credits   Preorder Christina Edmondson’s book now: https://a.co/d/6IVi10n

Conservative Political Activist and CEO of Turning Point USA, Charlie Kirk, was assassinated yesterday while speaking on a college campus in Utah. Esau is joined by Sharon McMahon and Justin Giboney to talk about this horrific and tragic story. They explore the history of political violence in the country, and discuss why this moment feels different and uniquely troubling. They also discuss what comes next and how both the country, and christians, should move forward in a way that tries to ratchet down the temperature and see the humanity in all. Please join us in praying for the Kirk family and all those grieving his death.

Esau is joined by New Testament scholar Paul Sloan to talk about his new book Jesus and the Law of Moses. They dig into big questions: Did Jesus and Paul disagree about the law? Did Jesus expect his Jewish followers to keep Torah? What about Gentiles? And what if our picture of the Pharisees as strict legalists is all wrong? Plus, they dive into the debate on whether we're expected to follow the commands in the Sermon on the Mount, or if it's merely supposed to show us our need for grace. Plus, old tech and old athletes.   0:00 - Theme Song   2:22 - AOL Just Got Canned?   6:20 - Do We Treat Hymns Like AOL?   18:13 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238   19:22 - Is the Law Here to Make Us Want Grace?   26:40 - Jesus and Ritual Purity   41:44 - End Credits   Jesus and the Law of Moses: The Gospels and the Restoration of Israel Within First-Century Judaism by Paul T. Sloan: https://a.co/d/5gnNBBQ  

Recently, Donald Trump criticized the Smithsonian for focusing too much on slavery, insisting that America’s history should be more “positive” and less “woke.” But can we really tell the story of America without telling the story of human bondage? Esau and Justin Giboney dig into the politics of memory, the temptation to idolize America, and why Christians in particular must insist on telling the truth about our history, both the glory and the shame. Plus, the myth of cancel culture from Paula Deen to Colin Kaepernick, Cracker Barrel outrage, and should we all be corny like Russel Wilson?   0:00 - Theme Song   1:33 - Who gets called “Corny?” Why Russell Wilson?   8:05 - Trump on Smithsonian and Slavery   25:40 - They’re rich, travel, and love to complain   33:10 - Self-Help Makes You a Jerk?   43:02 - End Credits

When the military becomes a political pawn? As Esau and Producer Mike break down Trump’s decision to deploy the National Guard to D.C., Esau reflects on his family’s experience in the military and the heavy cost of deployments for morale, families, and democracy itself. Then, adult summer camps are on the rise. Are they the answer to America’s loneliness epidemic, or is there an easier and less expensive way to make friends after college? Plus, listener questions about faith in difficult workplaces, the value of liturgy, and the beliefs Esau has changed his mind on over time.  0:00 - Theme Song 7:30 - National Guard in DC 19:45 - Summer Camp for Adults 24:08 - Do Men Need Activity to Socialize? 29:27 - Top TV shows/movies? 33:17 - Vocation and Faith 45:22 - End Credits Enter to win a copy of Esau’s Children’s Bible and support the podcast! https://holypost.com/esau

Sydney Sweeney’s “Great Jeans” ad sparked a culture war. Was it clever marketing, coded eugenics, or just outrage for clicks? Esau, Malcolm, and Mike break down who really wins when we fight over denim. Also, Taylor Swift has a new album, a Hollywood actor claims to have been blacklisted for his christian principles, and why old school gospel music should still be relevant today.   0:00 - Theme Song   2:00 - Making Malcolm a Swiftie   10:35 - Sydney Sweeney’s Jeans   22:40 - Neil McDonough Playing the Victim?   21:55 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238   34:50 - CEO Disses Gospel Music?   49:20 - End Credits

What does it mean to be Black and evangelical in a moment when both words carry so much baggage? Esau is joined by theologian and longtime Wheaton professor Dr. Vince Bacote, whose new documentary Black + Evangelical traces the overlooked history of African Americans in evangelical institutions. They talk about what it means to carry a Black church heritage into white evangelical spaces, why so many Black voices are celebrated until they speak up about race, and how many of today’s tensions are echoes of the past.   0:00 - Theme Song   3:25 - Highest-Grossing Documentary   6:18 - Black and Evangelical   13:22 - Struggles Being Black and Evangelical   24:18 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238   25:33 - Tom Skinner   28:30 - Tone Policing   33:33 - Emotion and Intellect   37:42 - Promise Keepers   45:45 - Hopeful Future for Black Evangelicalism   50:30 - End Credits   Black + Evangelical Documentary: https://pages.christianitytoday.com/black-evangelicals-documentary-lp

On a recent Holy Post episode, Ryan Burge claimed the data shows that Gen Z is not experiencing a revival, but Carey Nieuwhof says otherwise. Esau and Sharon Hodde Miller compare the competing narratives and reflects on what true revival looks like and why we care so much whether a revival is happening. Then, a recent New York Times piece questions the so-called “boy crisis,” Are boys really falling behind or have girls just always done better in school? Plus: what food or coffee shop would make you change your last name? Why Uber’s new feature for women riders is long overdue. And Esau’s final question: is being mad about Halloween in July grumpy or principled?   0:00 - Theme Song   2:35 - Naming Yourself After a Brand?   7:55 - Boyhood Crisis Overblown?   19:10 - Gen Z Revival or Retreat?   27:20 - Piety vs Churchgoing Stats   35:35 - Uber Gender Policy   42:20 - Grumpy or Principled   46:15 - End Credits   God’s Colorful Kingdom Storybook Bible: The Story of God’s Big Diverse Family by Esau McCaulley: https://a.co/d/iQjqMeB

A Coldplay concert kiss cam became the most viral moment of the week. Esau, and bestselling author Nancy French unpack the now-infamous clip of an affair caught on camera. Was it hilarious or heartbreaking, and what does it say about our appetite for public shame? They also debate whether a World War II hero should also be remembered as a TikTok star, whether celebrity-branded Crumbl cookies are harmless fun or late-stage capitalism in dessert form, and if Walmart might actually be... beautiful. Plus, Esau discovers there’s a wrong way to invite your producer to a Cubs game.   0:00 - Theme Song   4:00 - D-Day Veteran and TikTok Star   10:25 - Coldplay Outs CEO Affair—Funny or Tragedy?   21:08 - Benson Boone Cookies and Parasocial Relationships   31:24 - An Ode to Wal-Mart?   Ghosted: An American Story by Nancy French: https://a.co/d/0UhumZ5

A controversial new IRS regulation just opened the door for churches to endorse political candidates from the pulpit. Esau McCaulley and Justin Giboney weigh in on if this a win for religious freedom, a threat to the church’s public witness, or just business as usual? Then they unpack the unexpected reunion of hip-hop duo The Clipse. One brother found faith. The other kept rapping about dealing drugs. So what happens when grace and drug bars share the same tracklist? Can Christian artists operate in secular spaces without compromise? Plus: Black vs. African American, summer recommendations, and is Mike secretly the voice of the Bible Project?   0:00 - Theme Song   1:52 - Churches Endorsing Candidates   14:50 - African American or Black?   17:05 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238   24:40 - Is Mike the Bible Project guy?   26:35 - Drugs and Gospel on the Same Album   41:11 - Summer Plans   45:00 - End Credits   Don’t Let Nobody Turn You Around: How the Black Church’s Public Witness Leads Us out of the Culture War by Justin Giboney: https://a.co/d/cMMUHlQ

What do Black churches, Catholics, and evangelicals all agree on? That Trump’s “Big Beautiful Bill” is a big, problematic mess. Esau is joined by Malcolm Foley to unpack the sweeping legislation that slashes aid to the poor while delivering massive tax cuts to the wealthy. What does this reveal about our national values and how should the church respond to a policy so openly shaped by greed? Plus, the team reflects on the devastating flash floods in Texas that killed over 100 people. How long should we wait before asking the hard questions about accountability and whether this tragedy could have been prevented?   0:00 - Theme Song   1:20 - Hot Dog Eating Content   3:30 - AI and Racism   18:10 - Church Response to Trump’s “Big Beautiful Bill”   22:38 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238   23:52 - Employment vs Proof of Employment   52:47 - End Credits

As the Fourth of July approaches, Esau and Tish Harrison Warren reflect on what patriotism means today, especially for Christians who feel caught between critique and love of country. Then, Tish introduces the idea of “big church privilege,” and explores what’s gained and lost in the shift from large, well-resourced congregations to smaller, more intimate communities. Finally, they break down Peter Thiel’s recent comments about stagnation, progress, and humanity’s future. What happens when tech leaders try to achieve perfection without God?   0:00 - Theme Song   0:58 - 4th of July   12:16 - Small Church Privilege   26:08 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238   27:35 - Peter Tiel’s Eschatology   43:38 - End Credits

Marine biologist and author Rachel Jordan joins Esau McCaulley in studio to talk about her new book If the Ocean Has a Soul. They dive into the deep waters of science and theology, discussing coral reefs, climate change, and why the ocean might be one of the most overlooked witnesses to God's glory. Rachel shares how a tenth-grade biology class changed her life, how she navigates faith in scientific spaces (and vice versa), and what the church often misses about the natural world. Plus: jellyfish football teams, Titanic conspiracies, and the surprising spirituality of sea creatures.   0:00 - Theme Song   0:52 - Low-Stakes Conspiracy Theory   6:07 - Aquatic Sports Mascots   17:18 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238   18:35 - Scientists and Faith   26:12 - The Ocean and God’s Glory   32:35 - Can Fish Talk?   46:25 - End Credits   If the Ocean Has a Soul: A Marine Biologist’s Pursuit of Truth through Deep Waters of Faith and Science by Rachel G. Jordan: https://a.co/d/f0hLtQZ

Pastor and author Sharon Hodde Miller joins Esau McCaulley for a surprising conversation about the live-action Lilo & Stitch and how a children’s film quietly captures the realities of single motherhood, economic pressure, and communal grace. Then, Esau and Sharon talk about the challenges of pastoring in a polarizing time and how their online persona compares to their pastoral persona. Also, we have a Disney movie draft and a winner is declared.   0:00 - Theme Song   1:25 - Disney Movie Draft   13:40 - Lilo and Stitch   15:48 - Why Does Sharon Prefer the Remake?   22:42 - Single Motherhood   25:03 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238   27:10 - Being a Pastor with a Platform   40:45 - Free of Me   50:36 - End Credits   Free of Me: Why Life is Better When It’s Not About You by Sharon Hodde Miller: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0801075238?ref_=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_R7GWYC5AW573Y1AZXT64&bestFormat=true

It’s officially summer, and things are heating up. Esau is joined by Justin Giboney and producer Mike to swap summer playlists, celebrate Kirk Franklin’s unexpected honor at the BET Awards, talk about what kids should do during the summer, and unpack the recent protests in Los Angeles following aggressive ICE raids. What does faithful protest look like? How do Christians respond when political theater overshadows human dignity? And can you really call it a cookout without Earth, Wind & Fire?   0:00 - Theme Song   1:17 - Cookout Playlist Mount Rushmore   5:35 - BET Music Awards and Kirk Franklin   11:55 - Kid Rock   18:36 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238   19:46 - Summer Protests   38:30 - Coco Gauff and Black Accomplishment   46:12 - End Credits

NBA Finals. Trump’s sledgehammer policies. A Bible debate over sex. Esau, Justin Giboney, and Producer Mike truly tackle it all this week. First, why do small markets (and small churches) keep getting overlooked? Then, what’s really driving the fight over international students on U.S. campuses? Also, a popular pastor claims the Bible does not say sex before marriage is wrong, but we aren't convinced. Finally, sports heartbreak, Taylor Swift, and Mike (kind of) makes his co-host debut.   1:04 - NBA Finals and Small Markets/Churches 9:22 - The Bible Sexual Immorality Debate 25:11 - Mike's Corner: International Students on Campus and Trump 46:48 - Taylor Swift  

Elite universities are trying something new, or maybe not so new. To attract more conservative faculty, they’re adopting diversity strategies once used to support marginalized communities. So now that DEI is working for the right, is it still “woke”? Plus, fake Pope quotes are everywhere. Why is everyone trying to make the new Pope say what they want to hear? And in other news: a plantation burns, prom has officially lost its mind, and Producer Mike is in need of some friends.   0:00 - Theme Song   2:11 - Big Budget Proms   14:18 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238   15:40 - Fake Pope Quotes   25:18 - DEI for Conservatives   39:51 - The Plantation Fire   47:12 - End Credits

Author and mother of six, Katie Blackburn joins Esau for a conversation around single parenting, disability, and faith. Katie shares her experience raising a son with severe autism, the grief and grace that come with it, and how the church has responded, sometimes with welcome, other times with unintentional exclusion. Together, they explore why single parents and families affected by disability often feel unseen in church spaces, and what communities can do to change that. They also talk about Katie’s new children’s book The Very Best Baseball Game, inspired by a local disability league, and how stories can help us better understand diversity, empathy, and belonging. 0:00 - Show Starts   2:15 - Mount Rushmore of Family Films   7:55 - Single Motherhood   10:42 - Writing as Therapy   18:09 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238   19:21 - Church with Single People   24:28 - The Very Best Baseball Game   33:20 - What Can Churches Do for Disabled Children?   42:38 - End Credits  

Why does everything feel like a reboot? In this episode, Esau is joined by producer Mike and historian Malcolm Foley for a wide-ranging conversation on the current state of American pop culture. From promising films like Sinners and Thunderbolts to the creative fatigue behind endless reboots and auto-tuned algorithms, they explore whether we're stuck in a cycle of stagnation and cynicism, and why Beyoncé’s country album might provide a glimmer of hope for the future of the pop culture industry.   0:00 - Show Starts   0:45 - Theme Song   2:55 - Uninformed Takes on Ryan Coogler’s Sinners   10:16 - Movies with Anit-Christian Elements?   18:16 - Worst Pop Culture Era   26:15 - How in-Person Classes Change Things   33:55 - Revitalization of Pop Culture   47:15 - End Credits

Everyone needs a life coach sometimes and Esau is here to play the role. In today's episode, he answers the internet's questions about friendship, marriage, calling, AI, church, and, yes, the ethics of eating your kid’s leftovers. Joined by Producer Mike and Holy Post Community Coordinator Emerson, the trio tackles everything from existential crises to the proper number of slices you’re allowed to take from a pie. Whether you’re wondering how to make friends as a tired parent or if your marriage is weird because you don’t fight, Esau’s got takes, and lots of them.   0:00 - Theme Song   2:10 - Are Leftovers Fair Game?   5:32 - A.I. and Writing Careers   9:50 - Adult Friendships   17:35 - A Marriage with No Fights?   21:45 - Sponsor - Northern Seminary - Through Taste of Northern, you can experience the richness of a theological education for free, with leading New Testament scholars. Visit https://www.seminary.edu/taste to join a class today!   23:08 - Unfulfilling Job   35:18 - Is four “a few?”   37:45 - Church Disappointment   47:00 - End Credits