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© Ben Norman 2024
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For every solid theory in marketing, there's somebody saying Gen-Z don't use shops. For every effective ad, there's a Cannes winner. And for every flash of real genius, there's a LinkedIn post from a growth hacking guru.
As host, and self-appointed guardian, of Marketing Room 101, Ben Norman welcomes marketers from across the industry into a safe space to vent their frustration and confront their demons, with the chance to eliminate them forever.
24 Episodes
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In this episode, host Ben Norman is joined by perhaps the friendliest man in advertising - Nick Eagle - the photographer from Sheffield, Yorkshire, whose relaxed and down-to-earth approach has led him to shoot huge campaigns for iconic brands like The BBC, Paddy Power, and Manchester United across the globe.Nick and Ben recall the worst shoot ever and discuss the challenges and joys of the unexpected situations commercial photography creates. Nick also explains why, after years of working with heroes and national treasures like Erling Haaland, Clare Balding, and Anthony Joshua, he believes the real skill in photography is not in pressing the button, especially when shooting portraits.Nick shares why shooting his local football club, Sheffield United, stands alongside working on Sky Sports’ biggest ever out-of-home campaign as one of his proudest moments. He also makes the case for prioritising quality over efficiency in image making, discusses why he thinks AI is similar to VAR in football, and explains why meeting in person is always worth the effort.Finally, Ben’s brother recalls a chicken being thrown through a window, Nick talks about a man in a skip, and Ben declares his love for rubbish working men’s clubs in nondescript places.
In this episode, host Ben Norman is joined by Lindsey Clay, CEO of Thinkbox, the UK’s marketing body for commercial TV, and perhaps the industry’s most passionate voice for the power of television advertising. Before joining Thinkbox, Lindsey worked at some of the UK’s leading agencies including McCann Erickson and JWT, and today she continues to shape the industry as a Fellow of the Marketing Society, an Honorary Fellow of the IPA, and a proud member (and former President) of WACL.Lindsey and Ben discuss the industry’s obsession with technology, why that’s coming at the expense of creativity, and what’s changed in TV in the 20 years since Thinkbox was created, before discussing the problem of gender equality in senior leadership, and what needs to change to get a 50/50 gender split amongst CEOs.Ben presents Lindsey with some common myths from self-proclaimed tech gurus and TV critics, before Lindsey makes the case to temporarily banish advertising on Meta, why brands need to think before they invest and what would really needs to change to create a level playing field. Finally, Lindsey has a good old sing-song, Ben reminisces over Chicken Tonight and Linsey regrets pregnant paintballing.Links discussed in the episode:Channel 4 – Mirror on MasculinitiesThinkbox – Context EffectsThinkbox - Nickable ChartsThinkbox – TV Masters Training
In this episode, host Ben Norman is joined by marketing effectiveness and analytics expert Tashan Nichols who works with some of the biggest and most successful brands in the UK as a director at Magic Numbers, on top of hosting Magic Works training courses, coaching others, supporting Diversity, Equity and Inclusion causes and, of course, winning tonnes of awards (like The Media Leaders Future 100, Media Week’s 30 under 30 and Campaign's star player for the7stars two years in a row, 2022 and 2023).Tashan explains what’s so magic about numbers, and how to spot good numbers versus bad, or more accurately, how to pay attention to the right numbers at the right time based on what you want to do.They also dispel myths around poor analytics, including the danger of the last click attribution obsession and why we need to banish marketers seeing measurement as a bolt on or an afterthought. Tashan and Ben also discuss how to build the life you want through a blended career, rather than just settling for a 9-to-5, how to balance evidence with creative magic, and why it takes a village to raise a campaign. Plus, Tashan compares building a brand to baking a cake, tells us why advice from their grandma changed their life, and becomes the first person to say both ‘pedagogy’ and ‘coffee & walnut’ in Marketing Room 101.
In this episode, host Ben Norman is joined by author of The Art of Client Service, Robert Solomon, who, over four decades in the marketing industry, has garnered a reputation as world’s leading authority on making better advertising by building stronger relationships with clients.Robert demystifies the often-misunderstood world of client service, outlining what it actually is (including the art and science of doing it well) and why removing it will be a big loss for agencies, but a huge loss for brands and clients… for example, would Apple’s iconic 1984 advertising campaign have ever happened without great client relationships? Robert and Ben look at what account managers can do to win back their authority, including the importance of trust and wisdom.Plus, Ben goes on a rant about sandwiches, Robert talks tipping, and explains why the client service discipline is a bit like Levi’s jeans.
In this episode, host Ben Norman is joined by underdog advertising’s perennial trouble-maker, Paul Mellor - co-founder of Mellor & Smith - the ad agency that gets underdogs noticed.For the past 20 years Paul has helped brands like Paddy Power, Brooks Running, Hotels.com and Fat Lad at the Back get noticed by troubling the market-leading big dogs.Paul and Ben discuss the difference between big dog and underdog brands, why the biggest brands have it easy, and what underdogs need to do to punch above their weight.Paul makes the case to banish underdogs acting like market leaders, and explains why better, braver advertising is the only option available to them.They also discuss the difference between essential critical thinking and pesky problem spotting, how to find the ‘one thing’ to grow your underdog and the joys of loitering (instead of just relying on data).Plus, Paul rants about marketers who do everything they can to avoid thinking, he becomes the first person to say ‘Bonza’ in Marketing Room 101 and he decides that the ultimate underdog is actually an eel.Download your copy of 13.5 Ways to Grow Your Underdog Brand
In this episode, host Ben Norman is joined by Jordan Stachini, who describes herself as an ROI obsessed marketer who loves a Guinness and doesn’t do ‘fluffy’.Jordan is the owner and founder of Co&Co, the agency in Manchester she set-up at 30 years old and just one month before the Covid-19 pandemic stuck.Jordan talks about the journey she’s been on since ‘accidentally’ setting-up an agency, the benefits of choosing stability over speed and the difference between the privilege of stress and the danger of burnout. She also outlines how marketers can be ROI obsessed without killing creativity (and what they can learn from Surreal).Into Marketing Room 101 Jordan commits exclamation marks in pursuit of better writing and storytelling for brands.Jordan and Ben also discuss why (good) marketers need to stop fearing AI, and why a lack of common sense is the reason for most bland advertising.It also becomes clear Ben has no idea what his brother does for a living, while Ben and Jordan disagree about Manchester vs Yorkshire, but agree on North vs South.
In this episode, host Ben Norman is joined by one of the most decorated creative leaders in UK advertising, Mick Mahoney.Mick has led some of the world’s biggest agencies, working with some of the biggest brands from being Creative Director at BBH (including working on Jonnie Walker’s epic ‘The Man Who Walked Around the World’) to ECD at Havas Worldwide and Y&R London, then CCO Ogilvy. But more recently Mick has turned his attention towards helping more people to access creativity, understand it, and feel more confident using it. In doing so Mick has co-authored The Creative Nudge with previous guest Kev Chesters, he's developed the world’s first professional training programme for Creative Directors and released his debut solo book The Complete Creative Director. Mick turns out to be both the most unreasonable (in a good way) and unrestrained guest to enter Marketing Room 101. Ben and Mick discuss the new book, Mick’s stubborn refusal of home office equipment, why Mick has more energy today than 30 years ago and why he’s happy to give away his secrets.Mick then makes the case to banish five (yes five!) things, from brand value vinyls to problem spotters and pool tables.Mick also explains how pitching is destroying the creative industry and why it’s the agency’s fault, not the client’s. Ben is then put in a tricky situation and Mick decides he doesn’t want to murder his family.
In this episode, host Ben Norman is joined by the godfather of challenger brands and anti-dullness campaigner, Adam Morgan - who, in 1999, after years as a planner in top agencies (including as Planning Director at TBWA\Chiat\Day) - wrote the international best-selling challenger brand bible Eating the Big Fish and set up the consultancy he still runs today: eatbigfish.Adam and Ben discuss challenger brands and what’s changed for them in the past 25 years, as well as Adam’s recent work with Peter Field and Jon Evans on The Extraordinary Cost of Dull - uncovering the true cost of dull creative and media to brands and marketers.Plus, find out what The Four Horsemen of the Dullocalypse are and how to fight them, why cows are more interesting than advertising, why AI could be the saviour, and why Ben’s brother is a genius.
In this episode, host Ben Norman is joined by Louise Tullin, Marketing Director at 55/Redefined, an organisation dedicated to changing life and work for people over 50 for the better.Louise and Ben tackle the issue of age in marketing and advertising, looking at how and why the over-50s are being ignored and just how big of a problem it is, through to the commercial case, and why brands should see age as a path to growth, not a box to tick.Plus, what can brands learn from Dove and The Olympic Committee on how to include over 55s without turning off younger audiences? And what can Amazon, Cadbury’s and Gogglebox tell us about the power of including older people in humour?Louise also plugs a load of great books and talks about cats.Links to everything discussed in the episode –Revolting Women by Lucy Ryan Invisible Women by Caroline Criado PerezBolder by Carl HonoreMuch More to Come by Eleanor Mills Lifelife: Cat’s Protection Fostering Scheme
In this episode, host Ben Norman is joined by the fastest man in advertising, Nick Entwistle, who set-up One Minute Briefs in 2012 to encourage a faster, more instinctive approach to creativity.Over a decade later, the OMB community includes tens of thousands of creatives, producing hundreds of thousands of ideas for a huge list of brands, reaching millions of people across the world in the process.Since Lucozade provided the first branded brief, Nick and the OMB community have gone on to work with brands like Coca-Cola, Guinness and Task Rabbit, through to charities and public organisations including NHS, Missing People and WWF.Nick and Ben talk about the curse of overthinking and the power of committees to destroy great ideas, as well as the potential in communities to create them. Nick also makes the case for the lighter side of marketing, embracing silliness and the return of humour.Plus, Nick gives tips on how to end cyberbullying, names a piece of chalk, and Ben makes him do some quick maths.Learn more about Nick's business The Bank of CreativityLearn more about Cybersmile
In this episode, host Ben Norman is joined by Dave Harland, probably the funniest person on LinkedIn, and proud writer of copy and creator of personality for brands great and small across the UK for over 20 years.Dave’s career in marketing has seen him work on both sides of the client/agency fence, both as a copywriter and journalist, until more recently setting-up shop as co-founder of Copy or Die.Dave and Ben talk about the important side of humour and why it’s not just a laughing matter, they indulge in a spot of lazy advertising bashing and Dave presents an alternative way to build a brand through personality, humanity and lived experience.Plus, Dave makes the case for a lighter approach to heavy subjects (like epidurals), explains why he’s decide not to scam children, and paints a pretty unsettling picture of a cemetery.
In this episode, host Ben Norman is joined by Global Executive Creative Director (ECD) of Jellyfish, and founder of Good Girls Eat Dinner, Jo Wallace.Having made the move to LA in 2022 after 20 years in some of the UK’s most successful creative businesses, Jo and Ben discuss the differences between life and work in LA and London, why brands need to do the hard work to be single minded to avoid word salads, and how a braver culture of ‘yes’ could be the key to effectiveness.Jo also shares advice on how to tackle gender bias in senior leadership positions, why we need more female role models in the industry and how to actually do something about diversity.They also discuss miss-matched office furniture, someone’s uncle’s dog and London’s architecture.
In this episode, host Ben Norman is joined by a strategist, a speaker, a trainer, an author and a lecturer, which all happen to be the same person.Yes, Kevin Chesters has had some of the most important strategy jobs in the country, like Chief Strategy Officer (CSO) at Ogilvy and dentsu mcgarrybowen, plus senior roles at W+K and Saatchi & Saatchi and client-side strategy stint at BT.On top of that he wrote The Creative Nudge with business partner and good mate Mick Mahoney, as well as lecturing across several universities, training organisations across the country and fitting in the odd keynote or TEDx talk.In this episode Kevin and Ben discuss - Creativity, and why it’s often misunderstood Positivity, and why marketing needs more of itTyre kicking, and why we need to get rid of it Briefing, and how to get better at itAutism, and getting diagnosed with itPlus, Kev moans about moaners, reveals the answer to happiness and quotes a Korean proverb.
In this episode, host Ben Norman is joined in Marketing Room 101 by Gillian Clarke, a marketer with over 25 years experience working with some of the UK’s most loved FMCG brands, from Fox’s to Wham, Kit-Kat to Quality Street, and most recently Honey Monster cereal.In 2022, Gillian set up strategic consultancy Brave North which promises straight to the point marketing that works in the real world for brands large and small.Gillian and Ben discuss the importance of all the 4 Ps and why marketing can’t just be about the ‘promotional P’, Gillian makes the case for putting emotion back into advertising and the need to balance statistical rigour with gut instinct.The Honey Monster is also compared to a Georgian town house and takes down Tony the Tiger.
In this episode, host Ben Norman is joined in Marketing Room 101 by Laura Jordan Bambach.Perhaps one of the busiest people in the marketing world, Laura is Founder and Chief Creative Officer at Uncharted, Founder of SheSays & Oko, plus a speaker, author & artist.As one of very few female Chief Creative Officers Laura has bagged almost every award and accolade going, including being named one of Britain’s most influential people in the Debrett’s 500, as well as leading teams at Grey and Mr President to endless creative and effectiveness awards at the highest level.Further proving her boundless creative energy, Laura is also co-founder of SheSays, the global network supporting women in the creative industries as well as OKO and The Great British Diversity Experiment.Laura and Ben discuss setting up an all female creative agency, the power of creative community and the danger of confusing the easiest metrics to analyse, with the metrics that actually matter.They also discuss the comparisons between the dawn of AI and the birth of the world wide web, and Laura also decides she wants to be an axolotl with bat wings.
In this episode, host Ben Norman is joined in Marketing Room 101 by Nick Asbury, the creative copywriter with a rap sheet including 25 years of work for major brands, writing for Creative Review, Design Week and The Guardian, co-authoring the latest edition of ‘A Smile in the Mind: Witty thinking in graphic design’ and most recently, writing his stand-out book ‘The Road to Hell’, which outlines a case against brand purpose that Professor Byron Sharp described as ‘an antidote to shoddy thinking’.Nick and Ben discuss the origins of brand purpose, why it leads to bad marketing and the troublesome truth behind the ‘do well by doing good’ mantra. Nick also presents a better way for brands, agencies and advertisers, suggests a rethink for creative awards and doesn’t buy a pink Jaguar.Pick up your copy of The Road to Hell hereFind out more about Nick here
In this episode, host Ben Norman is joined in Marketing Room 101 by Owen Ensor, CEO of sustainable start-up Meatly - the first company in Europe to gain approval to sell cultivated meat (or lab-grown meat), and the first in the world to be approved to sell cultivated meat pet food. We’re talking real meat (not ‘like meat’), made without animals. In this chat, Owen and Ben discuss the fascinating journey that led Owen to enter such a fascinating industry, how Meatly went from underdog (there’s a joke in there somewhere) to world’s first, creating the brand and developing messaging, and why we need to rethink and re-regulate the way brands speak about the animals used to make their products.Owen also announces his love for a somewhat niche kind of 1960s advertising and brings Freddie Mercury back from the dead.Find out more at meatly.pet
In this episode, host Ben Norman is joined in Marketing Room 101 by legendary advertising creative, Trevor Robinson OBE, founder of agency Quiet Storm, as well as Create Not Hate.From sofa surfing around London trying to break into the creative world to receiving an OBE for services to advertising and diversity, Trevor’s career is extraordinary and his insight invaluable.As a creative, Trevor has created highly entertaining and far-reaching work that’s almost certainly made anybody reading this laugh at some point – from the iconic 90s ad campaign ‘You’ve been Tango’d’ to Haribo’s kid’s voices in recent years.He makes the case that these, and most other great creative campaigns, wouldn’t exist without faith in creativity, and therefore decides to eliminate fear from the creative industry.Trevor and Ben also talk diversity in advertising, and how Create Not Hate isn’t about ticking boxes or meeting quotas, it’s about how diversity in a wider sense leads to better, more effective creative work.Find out more about Quiet Storm here.Find out more about Create Not Hate here.
In this episode, host Ben Norman is joined in Marketing Room 101 by author, mentor and former agency owner Gareth Healey.For around half of his 30 years in the creative industry Gareth was CEO of his own 175 head-count marketing agency, with offices in Leeds and London, before exiting to focus on helping other marketing agency owners run their businesses better, grow their agencies and sell them, as well as writing his book - Stand Out or Die.With a hand and an ear in agencies of all shapes and sizes, Gareth makes his pitch to rethink agency pitching, introduces smarter pitching practices and explains exactly why doing so will benefit both brands and agencies and improve client-agency relationships.Find out more about Cactus.Get your copy of Stand Out or Die.
In this episode, host Ben Norman is joined in Marketing Room 101 by his first ever international guest. All the way from the USA, Christina Garnett is a fractional Chief Customer Officer and founder of Pocket CCO, who helps businesses to understand their customers better, to make them happier and to retain them for longer.Championing collaborative business culture and a customer-centric approach, Christina makes the case for destroying silos (in business, not agriculture) and creating a better culture for teams, as well as highlighting the power of a whole team aligned around the customer.She also uses a perfect Marvel related analogy and struggles to understand beans on toast.Find out more at Pocket CCO
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