On the Road to No Place Left

Chuck Wood II and I discuss Riding the Wave: https://pheaney.substack.com/p/riding-the-waveQuotes:I love that idea of perfectly unrushed... For being fully God and outside of time in one sense, it's awesome to see what fully God, fully man looked like just walking in time, never busy... always with things grabbing for his time, but never hurried, never rushed.A soldier is built for war, not for the hospital. And so if we're spending all our time in the hospital, we're doing great things, but we're not winning the war... I think it's in the heart of every believer that they know the fight is out there among the lost.You actually are commissioned to go make disciples of all nations. But on the other side, the same thing is true is you have no chance of fulfilling the Great Commission.Season 9: On Pioneering/How to Stick, Episode 9 This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit pheaney.substack.com

Chuck Wood II and I discuss a surprising way to persevere if you’re in a season of ministry that feels like the prophet Jeremiah. This conversation is based on my post, The Progress Principle: https://pheaney.substack.com/p/the-progress-principleQuotes:If your leaders are not asking you questions that facilitate rest and recreation, you might wanna find different leaders because your wheels are gonna fall off sooner or later. And that's part of making disciples.When somebody walks away from the faith or walks away from our discipling or our even shepherding or leading, that actually hurts and that does something to us. There's a little therapy in the fact that I can go and I do this job. And when I came back the next day, those wires didn't move themselves out of the wall.Season 9: On Pioneering/How to Stick, Episode 8 This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit pheaney.substack.com

Chuck Wood II and I talk about how to conduct an autopsy when something in ministry isn’t going as you thought, or is an outright flop.This conversation is based on this post: https://pheaney.substack.com/p/how-to-fail-forwardQuotes:The original intent is the idea that we failed. But we're moving forward because we learned something from that failure. I think we can misuse it if we just say it flippantly without actually thinking about it, then that's what's going to lead to the actual fail and not the ability to move forward.The Army cranks out 300 to 400 paratroopers a week. The last time we had a major airborne assault was World War II... So why in the world is the army investing time and resources in teaching people an antiquated combat delivery system? One word: courage. The paratrooper learns courage, which translates to everything in a soldier's job... The goal wasn't teaching people how to jump out of the airplane. The goal was teach them courage.Don't be afraid to pull the plug.Season 9: On Pioneering/How to Stick, Episode 7 This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit pheaney.substack.com

Another conversation with Chuck Wood II where we discuss my latest post on pioneering: https://pheaney.substack.com/p/we-need-you-to-go-firstSeason 9: On Pioneering/How to Stick, Episode 4. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit pheaney.substack.com

Chuck Wood II interviews me about my latest post for pioneers: What is the Goal? Read it here: https://pheaney.substack.com/p/what-is-the-goal-018Season 9: On Pioneering/How to Stick, Episode 3. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit pheaney.substack.com

Chuck Wood II interviews me on the concept of sticking with it in ministry. You can (and should!) read the original post here: https://pheaney.substack.com/p/we-need-you-to-stickSeason 9: On Pioneering/How to Stick; Episode 2: This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit pheaney.substack.com

Welcome to the start of Season 9 of the On the Road Podcast. I’ve had a few years now of sporadic episodes, but starting with this one, there should be a regular rhythm of new episodes for a while. Chuck Wood II interviews me about the first post in my new series: On Pioneering. The conversation will make a lot more sense if you start by reading this short blog post: https://pheaney.substack.com/p/on-pioneering This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit pheaney.substack.com

I really enjoyed this interview with Chris Keener about a mathematical model behind movements. That sentence alone scared me at first, but diving into his article and then dialoguing the concepts with him has really helped me think through how I’m approaching the task of multiplying disciples.Show Notes:Published Article: A Mathematically Based Model of Disciple Making MovementsPrevious Conversation with Brett Butler about Money and Movements: https://pheaney.substack.com/p/movements-and-moneyTime Stamps, Topics & Quotes:5:33 “before multiplication happens there is a lag where things don’t seem to move”12:10 Two key factors: Receptivity and Relationships21:40 “You control the amount of time that you spend”23:05 Purely scattering seeds will not get you to multiplication25:22 Rejoice if you have a new disciple every 2 years30:15 The math breaks down if we rely on paid professionals35:40 “Do I demand the reward of seeing frequent positive results?” This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit pheaney.substack.com

This is a follow-up conversation with Emanuel Prinz about his book “What Actually Starts Movements.” I had some additional questions to ask, and I think you’ll enjoy these key insights about teams, insiders/outsiders, and funding. (Check out minute marks below for specific topics).Here is our previous conversation: https://pheaney.substack.com/p/what-actually-starts-movementsMinute MarksAPEST and Catalytic Teams 4:23Outsiders vs Insiders 12:42Where does the money come from? 19:56Compassion ministry in Western contexts 23:31* An example of a compassion ministry in Western contexts: Kintsugi Hope - https://www.kintsugihope.com/Avoiding Reductionism 27:41* Movement Servants https://www.catalyticleadership.info/post/39-who-can-start-a-movement This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit pheaney.substack.com

When I have conversations with Emanuel Prinz, I feel like I’m sitting down with the equivalent of Jim Collins in the business world. Instead of being satisfied with anecdotal stories, he and a research team have dug into hundreds of Gospel-movements worldwide to see what is actually happening and how we can emulate it.Emanuel Prinz helps ministries grow to movements. Find out more: www.catalyticleadership.info.Find the book we talked about today, "What Actually Starts Movements," on Amazon.Check out his blog & podcast at emanuelprinz.substack.com/aboutContact Emanuel directly: http://www.catalyticleadership.info/contact .Here are some of our discussion points, with time markers if you want to skip ahead.Deep Prayer: How much do movement catalysts actually pray? (15:12)Assertiveness vs Agreeableness (20:45)Influencing others’ beliefs (24:38)How Gospel receptivity affects movements: If the soil is hard, will we ever see a movement? (31:26)Busy-ness: One of the biggest movement blockers (33:46)What about non-catalysts? (39:07)How much time, on average, did it take for a catalyst to see a movement? (43:38)Radical learning (44:39)A final non-challenge (48:22) This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit pheaney.substack.com

People on this episode: Guy Caskey, Rodger Guigou Shull, Philip Lynch, and Yours TrulyWe mentioned: Events with Intent, BLT CommunitiesKey moments (so you can jump ahead if you don’t have the capacity to listen to the whole thing.)* 9:37 All boats rise when people get connected.* 20:46 “Serve the purpose of God.”* 29:08 Learning from each other.* 37:17 The danger of over-sending the work* 41:53 Five key learnings (Check pheaney.substack.com for image). This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit pheaney.substack.com

I really enjoyed the insights from reading this book, as well as chatting about it with the co-author, Dave Coles. Find the book here: https://www.amazon.com/Living-Fire-Advancing-Kingdom-Challenging-ebook/dp/B0DTC2SQSX/ You can find more about Dave and what he has written here: https://davecoles.freemin.org/ This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit pheaney.substack.com

I have been wanting to capture this story since I first heard it!Give this podcast a listen to hear a great and inspiring story of how an Event with Intent can lead to multiplication. You’ll also learn key insights about:* diaspora work* leadership development* real-life multiplication* finding the resources in the harvest This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit pheaney.substack.com

Chuck Wood II and I discuss what defines Pioneering Work from my latest post: https://pheaney.substack.com/p/what-is-pioneering-work.Quotes:We're looking to fully hold on to the ground we take for the kingdom. Not just check it out a little bit or drop three seeds and then head back to the city.The first adjustment might not be any movement whatsoever other than just get your life oriented around God.Season 9: On Pioneering/How to Stick, Episode 5 This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit pheaney.substack.com

You cannot head out on your own in ministry. Listen in as Chuck Wood II and I discuss my latest post: https://pheaney.substack.com/p/pioneers-dont-go-it-aloneQuotes:We need to remember we're standing on the shoulders of giants. So even as we're pioneers in any context, we need to remember there's people that have come before us.Character is very important, but let's also put having people that are doing life with us right up there with our character.Season 9: On Pioneering/How to Stick, Episode 6 This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit pheaney.substack.com

What does it look like to see God birth new churches among lost people?All around America there are bonafide living and breathing churches, filled with disciples of Jesus. These disciples used to be far from God. And these churches have cost nothing to start. Many of them are reproducing.In On the Road Season 4, we’ll be sharing stories of God working in and through these $0 churches. I can’t wait to learn together about the amazing work God is doing and how we can join him in it.The first part of Season 4 will be multiple interviews to help us better see those churches. Most of us can picture and even feel what church in a building at 10 am on Sunday is like. I’m hoping to help us better understand what simple churches look and feel like. Along the way, we’re going to learn a ton about what God is doing today.After those interviews, I’m hoping to put together a work with the lessons learned. I’m not sure what that will look like yet. It may be an audio documentary, a series of podcast episodes, a book of some sort, or just a one-page article. Regardless of the end product, I want to pull together the lessons learned so we can better understand and celebrate how God is working.There are a lot of people and places we could learn from, but I want to filter down to churches with the following criteria:They are autonomous churches, not cell groups.They are in a western context.They are made up primarily of people who were not following Jesus before the church came together.As already stated, I’ll be looking for low to no-cost churches.In addition, I’ll be looking for if the church is reproducing disciples and birthing new churches.I hope you’ll jump into Season 4 and learn with me. You can subscribe in the podcast app of your choice. If you’d like episodes, blog posts and the finished work of lessons learned from $0 churches delivered to your inbox, use a sign-up form at ontheroad.link to get everything delivered to your email inbox.Thanks for listening. Stay tuned for our first conversation on these $0 churches.Listen to this and other On the Road podcast episodes at ontheroad.link/podcast.Visit ontheroad.link to subscribe to get this podcast and blog posts from Pheaney delivered to your email. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit pheaney.substack.com

Cory & Brian from the Kansas City Underground discuss the importance of a little structure in supporting decentralized movement work. Towards the end, we talk about a visual that you can’t see on my audio-only podcast, but you can find when they cross-publish this same episode on the KC Underground Podcast: https://kcunderground.org/podcastKC Underground Site: https://kcunderground.org/Hub Primer: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hiH1NrjKPVR7IVeR_3Fxw3PNZ-PkO-S4/view?usp=drivesdkTimestamps (Topics & Quotes)3:53 - The myth of pure decentralization7:57 “You need a commitment to disciple-making first… but eventually you need structure.”9:45 - What are the biggest obstacles in America to legitimate disciple-making movements?12:08 - “Let’s stop worrying about the strategy, let’s just get desperate in prayer that God would move.”15:33 - The importance of perseverance17:34 - Hubs defined20:20 - “If you don’t flourish in your own soul, it won’t spill over into mission.”28:22 - Macro vision vs hyper-local work34:02 - “Jesus has sent me into my particular place, and if I don’t own that, who will?”42:39 - “Don’t be afraid to build something.” This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit pheaney.substack.com

“This is the biggest problem I have.” - Numerous missionaries on the subject of money and how it affects their work in the majority world. The book is called To Whom Much Was Given: Case Studies on How Outside Money Affects Movement PractitionersIf you are having trouble navigating tricky money situations, this is an episode you should listen to, and more importantly, a book you should read.https://www.movementsandmoney.org/Find the book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DZR8SC66 This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit pheaney.substack.com

I have interviewed Rodger several times on my podcast. You should most definitely give a listen to this episode and more importantly buy the book “Movements in America”. For one week from the release date (April 28) the book is on sale on Amazon! https://www.amazon.com/Movements-America-Disciple-Movement-Spreading/dp/B0DNVN3YBP/ This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit pheaney.substack.com

Book on Amazon: https://a.co/d/iIoryhZBook in Podcast Form: https://open.spotify.com/show/58azIoSYujcz8kj99vV40x?si=b68915d0ab1f4919 This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit pheaney.substack.com