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The McShay Show

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Long time NFL Draft and College Football Analyst Todd McShay brings you inside his unique world of an NFL talent evaluator. From the football season to the draft he’ll be following the top draft prospects, sharing the inside scoops from NFL front offices, talking to some of his friends in the industry, and regularly discussing his latest mock drafts. Join Todd on Mondays and Thursdays every week and don't miss his Saturday game day reaction shows.




For Todd's Full Mock Draft and More Draft Access Subscribe to The McShay Report: https://mcshay-report.beehiiv.com/subscribe

154 Episodes
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Welcome back to The McShay Show! Todd and Steve are back to debut the inaugural All-TMS team and share which prospects they're high on heading into draft season.0:00 Welcome to The McShay Show!0:49 The Inaugural All-McShay Show Team6:48 QB: Dante Moore, Oregon14:10 RB: Jeremiyah Love, Notre Dame20:10 WR: Denzel Boston, Washington + WR: Makai Lemon, USC + Carnell Tate, Ohio State30:10  TE:  Kenyon Sadiq, Oregon38:10  OT: Spencer Fano, Utah41:05 IOL: Francis Mauigoa, Miami43:45 Red star players 53:45 Edge: Akheem Mesidor, Miami57:05 IDL: Caleb Banks, Florida1:00:23 LB: Arvell Reese, Ohio State1:03:30 CB: Mansoor Delane, LSU1:07:48 DS: Caleb Downs, Ohio State1:10:50 The All-McShay Show Team TakeawaysSubscribe to The McShay Report for access to all of Todd’s mock drafts, big boards, scouting reports, and more throughout the college football season. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more and join waitlist at ScoutMotors.comShop Duluth Trading Co Online & In-store Host: Todd McShayGuest: Steve MuenchProducers: Tucker Tashjian, Conor Nevins, and Daniel Comer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Join Todd and Muench as they react to the first round matchups of the College Football Playoffs. 0:00 Welcome to The McShay Show! 1:40 CFP first round live reactions! 6:45 (10) Miami defeats (7) Texas A&M: 10-3 30:30 (9) Alabama defeats (8) Oklahoma: 34-24 52:20 Previewing the CFP quarterfinals The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more and join waitlist at ScoutMotors.com Host: Todd McShay Guest: Steve Muench Producers: Tucker Tashjian, Conor Nevins, Daniel Comer Social: Alysha Tsuji Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
It’s time for a ROUGH DRAFT! The guys open by reacting to the latest underclassmen declarations before weighing the pros and cons of Dante Moore’s and Ty Simpson’s looming draft decisions. Then, Todd and Steve are joined by Fox Sports analyst Joel Klatt to preview the first round of the College Football Playoff. 0:00 Welcome to the McShay Show!3:05 Draft buzz, underclassmen and transfer portal news14:40 Returning QB's: Arch, Sellers, Maiava, Chiles, & Leavitt19:38 Todd's latest intel on Dante Moore and Ty Simpson41:22 CFP first round picks!54:07 CFP first round previews with Joel Klatt55:30 CFP preview: (9) Alabama vs. (8) Oklahoma [-1.5]1:05:05 Ranking the best offenses and defenses in the CFP1:13:15 CFP preview: (10) Miami vs. (7) Texas A&M [-3.5]1:17:10 Who's winning the CFP? Subscribe to The McShay Report for access to all of Todd’s mock drafts, big boards, scouting reports, and more throughout the college football season. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more and join waitlist at ScoutMotors.com Host: Todd McShayGuests: Steve Muench and Joel KlattProducers: Tucker Tashjian, Conor Nevins, and Daniel Comer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Welcome back to The McShay Show! Todd and Steve open by reacting to the latest transfer portal news on DJ Lagway, Aidan Chiles, and LaNorris Sellers. Then, they take a look at the College Football Playoff field and draft the QBs they’re most confident in ahead of Friday’s first-round matchup between Alabama and Oklahoma.0:00 Welcome to The McShay Show!0:38 Todd's latest Intel and transfer portal news10:52 2025 CFP QB Confidence Draft20:30 Pick 1 (McShay): Fernando Mendoza, Indiana22:20 Pick 2 (Muench): Dante Moore, Oregon25:03 MY GUYS!26:45 Pick 3 (McShay): Gunner Stockton, Georgia31:56 Pick 4 (Muench): Julian Sayin, Ohio State36:35 Pick 5 (McShay): Carson Beck, Miami40:47 Pick 6 (Muench): Ty Simpson, Alabama42:37 Pick 7: (McShay): Behren Morton, Texas Tech47:13 Pick 8: (Muench): Trinidad Chambliss, Ole Miss48:32 Pick 9: (McShay): John Mateer, Oklahoma + Pick 10: (Muench): Marcel Reed, Texas A&M52:57  Pick 11: (McShay): Jake Retzlaff, Tulane + Pick 12: (Muench): Alonza Barnett III, JMU57:57 Join us this weekend live reacting to the CFP matchupsSubscribe to The McShay Report for access to all of Todd’s mock drafts, big boards, scouting reports, and more throughout the college football season.The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available.Learn more and join waitlist at ScoutMotors.comHost: Todd McShayGuest: Steve MuenchProducers: Tucker Tashjian, Conor Nevins, and Daniel ComerSocial: Jon Roemer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Welcome back to The McShay Show! Todd and Steve open by revealing the top 10 players on their rough draft big boards. Then, they hop into a quick flash mock to see how the first 10 picks might play out if the draft were tomorrow. To close, the guys are joined by former Eagles exec and cap expert Jake Rosenberg to discuss the future of college football and his new role with the Athlete Group. 0:00 Welcome to The McShay Show!3:45 Rough Draft: Top 10 Draft Prospects right now9:23 #1: Fernando Mendoza, Indiana QB9:40 #2: Arvell Reese, Ohio State LB10:02 #3: Dante Moore, Oregon QB13:00 #4: Jeremiyah Love, Notre Dame RB13:55 #5: Caleb Downs, Ohio State DS18:40 #6-#8: WR's Carnell Tate, Makai Lemon, Jordyn Tyson19:40 #9: Keldric Faulk, Auburn EDGE19:55 #10: Francis Mauigoa, Miami OT21:20 Takeaways from Todd's Top 10 Prospects23:40 FLASH MOCK!32:50 Browns trade up and draft Fernando Mendoza36:35 Raiders draft Dante Moore37:07 Titans draft Arvell Reese37:45 Giants draft Spencer Fano39:40 Saints draft Keldric Faulk42:00 Commanders draft Carnell Tate43:45 Jets draft Peter Woods45:10 Cardinals draft Jeremiyah Love45:35 Rams draft Caleb Downs47:13 Bengals draft David Bailey51:40 Jake Rosenberg joins the show next!59:28 Jake Rosenberg joins the show!59:35 How College Football front offices are built1:00:35 Jake's role in CFB program building1:06:33 CFB's growing needs for NFL style front office structuring1:10:32 How has CFB changed with the new role of General Managers1:16:35 How are CFB programs conducting their head coaching searches?1:18:33 What to look for in CFB General Managers?1:24:35 Are CFB programs resistant to change?1:30:40 Balancing players physical evaluations vs. financial valuations1:39:45 Managing portal vs. recruiting for programs1:45:30 How much does it cost for a CFB team to be competitive? Subscribe to The McShay Report for access to all of Todd’s mock drafts, big boards, scouting reports, and more throughout the college football season. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more and join waitlist at https://ScoutMotors.com.com Host: Todd McShayGuest: Steve MuenchProducers: Tucker Tashjian, Conor Nevins, and Daniel ComerSocial: Jon Roemer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Join Todd and Muench as they react to the CFP committee revealing the final seeding for this years CFP. 0:00 Welcome to The McShay Show!1:50 CFP Selection live reactions!5:15 Projecting the CFP final rankings12:25 TMS Top 1218:50 Should Notre Dame, Miami and Alabama get in the CFP?24:55 CFP final rankings revealed!52:25 Previewing the biggest CFP matchups1:11:10 CFP Bracket Predictions The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. This episode is brought to you by American Eagle. Host: Todd McShayGuest: Steve MuenchProducers: Tucker Tashjian, Conor Nevins, Daniel ComerSocial: Alysha Tsuji Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Join Todd and Muench reacting to the end of the B1G Championship game between undefeated Indiana and Ohio State. 0:00 Welcome to The McShay Show! 1:27 Big Ten Championship: (2) Indiana Defeats (1) Ohio State: 13-10 43:25 BIG 12 Championship: (4) Texas Tech Defeats (11) BYU: 34-747:50 ACC Championship: Duke defeats (17) Virgina: 27-2049:05 TMS TOP 12 The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Todd McShay Guest: Steve Muench Producers: Tucker Tashjian, Conor Nevins, Daniel Comer Social: Alysha Tsuji Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Join Todd and Muench reacting to the end of the SEC Championship game between Georgia and Alabama. 0:00 Welcome to the McShay Show! 2:00 SEC Championship: (3) Georgia Defeats (9) Alabama: 28-7 21:38 What's wrong with Alabama? 24:35 Kirby Smart's coaching masterclass 32:02 Expect Georgia to move up to #2? 36:50 Is Alabama still in the CFP? 44:25 What's Next for Alabama? 56:30 How does this loss impact Ty Simpson's draft decision? The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more and join waitlist at https://ScoutMotors.com.com Host: Todd McShay Guest: Steve Muench Producers: Tucker Tashjian, Conor Nevins, Daniel Comer Social: Alysha Tsuji Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Welcome back to The McShay Show! In preparation for Indiana–Ohio State and Alabama-Georgia, Todd and Steve are drafting the best players in each championship game. Who has the better squad?0:00 Welcome to The McShay Show! 0:57 Rough Draft: SEC and B1G Championship Previews3:42 Join us this weekend!6:12 Drafting the Best Conference Championship Units6:35 Conference Championship Draft: Quarterbacks13:28 Conference Championship Draft: Running Backs17:40 Conference Championship Draft: Wide Receivers24:25 Conference Championship Draft: Tight Ends27:10 Conference Championship Draft: Offensive Line32:57 Conference Championship Draft: EDGE35:57 Conference Championship Draft: Interior Defensive Lineman38:34 Conference Championship Draft: Linebackers43:05 Conference Championship Draft: Defensive Backs47:43 Conference Championship Draft: Coaches52:14 Team Muench vs. Team McShay: Who Ya Got?!54:23 Week 15 CFB picks!Subscribe to The McShay Report for access to all of Todd’s mock drafts, big boards, scouting reports, and more throughout the college football season.The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more and join waitlist at https://ScoutMotors.com.com Host: Todd McShayGuest: Steve MuenchProducers: Tucker Tashjian, Conor Nevins, and Daniel ComerSocial: Jon Roemer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Welcome to The McShay Show! The guys rewind the tape and give their biggest takeaways from Rivalry Week in college football. 0:00 Welcome to The McShay Show!0:43 Week 14 Tape Truths7:55 Tape Truth 1: Texas A&M can make a run in the College Football Playoff16:45 Tape Truth 2: Alabama’s defense is grossly underrated30:58 Tape Truth 3: Todd’s still all-in on Ty Simpson44:40 Tape Truth 4: Texas Tech GM James Blanchard isn’t getting enough credit for the Red Raiders’ success52:25 Tape Truth 5: Kayden McDonald is the glue for Ohio State’s defense1:01:35 Tape Truth 6: The ACC needs Virginia RB J’Mari Taylor to step up against Duke Subscribe to The McShay Report for access to all of Todd’s mock drafts, big boards, scouting reports, and more throughout the college football season. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Shop Duluth Trading Co Online & In-store Host: Todd McShayGuest: Steve MuenchProducers: Tucker Tashjian, Conor Nevins, and Daniel ComerSocial: Jon Roemer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Welcome back to The McShay Show! Todd and Steve are breaking down every angle of the coaching carousel after a wild Rivalry Week in college football. The guys start by talking about Lane Kiffin's move to LSU; then they discuss what it means for Pete Golding and Ole Miss. To wrap, Todd shares some inside intel on Penn State’s coaching search and why Kalen DeBoer’s seat might be hotter than many people realize. 0:00 Welcome to The McShay Show! 2:00 Fallout from Lane Kiffin leaving Ole Miss for LSU 11:02 How Louisiana's high school talent influenced Lane's decision 20:10 Why Lane Kiffin left Ole Miss for LSU 27:00 Jimmy Sexton's influence on CFB 37:05 Lane Kiffin's Alabama angle 38:25 Fallout from Lane Kiffin leaving Ole Miss for LSU 46:00 Expectations for Pete Golding at Ole Miss53:57 Sexton's influence on Penn State's coaching search Subscribe to The McShay Report for access to all of Todd’s mock drafts, big boards, scouting reports, and more throughout the college football season. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. This episode is brought to you by American Eagle. Host: Todd McShayGuest: Steve MuenchProducers: Tucker Tashjian, Conor Nevins, and Daniel ComerSocial: Jon Roemer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Join Todd and Muench every Saturday night throughout the College Football season to recap and react to the biggest games, plays and prospect performances. 0:00 Welcome to The McShay Show!3:12 Week 14 Live Reactions!3:34 The latest on Lane Kiffin27:12 The latest on Penn State's coaching search31:07 (1) Ohio State defeats (15) Michigan: 27-955:11 (12) Miami defeats (22) Pitt: 38-71:05:27 (16) Texas defeats (3) Texas A&M: 27-17 1:18:40 TMS Top 12 The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Todd McShay Guest: Steve Muench Producers: Tucker Tashjian, Conor Nevins, Daniel Comer Social: Alysha Tsuji Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Welcome to The McShay Show! Todd and Muench are joined by special guest Urban Meyer to break down the Ohio State–Michigan rivalry and preview this weekend’s game in Ann Arbor. Then, the guys discuss Lane Kiffin’s looming decision. 0:00 Welcome to The McShay Show!3:17 Week 14 CFB picks9:58 Previewing (1) Ohio State [-9.5] vs. (18) Michigan14:05 Coach Urban Meyer joins the show!15:35 The Ohio State-Michigan rivalry20:10 Relationship with Ryan Day23:10 Previewing (1) Ohio State [-9.5] vs. (18) Michigan31:00 Challenges with first year QBs33:05 Evaluating Julian Sayin 35:20 Do Buckeye fans have McShay to thank for a championship? 36:42 Evaluating Lane Kiffin’s decision Subscribe to The McShay Report for access to all of Todd’s mock drafts, big boards, scouting reports, and more throughout the college football season. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Shop Duluth Trading Co Online & In-store Host: Todd McShayGuests: Steve Muench and Urban MeyerProducers: Tucker Tashjian, Conor Nevins, and Daniel ComerSocial: Jon Roemer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Welcome to The McShay Show! The guys rewind the tape and give their biggest takeaways from Week 13 of college football. 0:00 Welcome to The McShay Show!2:45 Tape Truths from Week 136:35 Alabama's Germie Bernard needs to be ready for Auburn17:05 Evaluating Isaiah Sategna's draft stock29:35 Tennessee has all the elements of a great pass rush38:45 Dante Moore's NFL comp is C.J. Stroud59:30 Max Klare is Ohio State's wild card at TE1:02:30 Where are we with Bryce Underwood?1:13:30 Coach Urban Meyer joins us on Wednesday! Subscribe to The McShay Report for access to all of Todd’s mock drafts, big boards, scouting reports, and more throughout the college football season. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. This episode is brought to you by American Eagle. Host: Todd McShayGuest: Steve MuenchProducers: Tucker Tashjian, Conor Nevins, and Daniel ComerSocial: Jon Roemer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Join Todd and Muench every Saturday night throughout the College Football season to recap and react to the biggest games, plays and prospect performances. 0:00 Welcome to The McShay Show! 1:45 Best things we saw today 16:40 (7) Oregon Defeats (15) USC: 42-2738:30 (8) Oklahoma Defeats (22) Missouri: 17-655:20 Jeremiyah Love's Heisman Case (171 Yards, 3 TDs)59:15 (17) Texas Defeats Arkansas: 52-371:04:15 Week 13 Takeaways1:09:47 TMS Top 12 1:24:35 What's Next for Lane Kiffin? The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Shop Duluth Trading Co Online & In-store Host: Todd McShay Guest: Steve Muench Producers: Tucker Tashjian, Conor Nevins, Daniel Comer Social: Alysha Tsuji Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Welcome to The McShay Show! Todd rewinds the tape and gives his biggest takeaways from Week 12 of college football. Then, he’s joined by The Athletic’s Bruce Feldman to break down every angle of the college football coaching carousel. 0:00 Welcome to The McShay Show!3:23 Tape Truths from Week 123:40 Georgia could be the best SEC team in the CFP13:17 The 2026 running back draft class is looking special20:24 Ahmad Hardy is the most productive back in CFB22:14 Kewan Lacy is the best defensive asset for Ole Miss24:32 Kaytron Allen vs. Michigan State: 181 Yards, 2 TD25:13 Ty Simpson isn't perfect, relax on the narrative35:25 Makai Lemon's rising draft stock41:10 This is the Kenyon Sadiq the Ducks need47:45 Bruce Feldman joins the show48:32 What's the first coaching domino?53:00 What's next for Brian Kelly?57:45 Will Lane Kiffin stay at Ole Miss?1:04:00 The latest on LSU's coaching search1:09:08 The latest on Penn State's coaching search1:14:37 Bruce Feldman's latest intel The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. This episode is brought to you by American Eagle. Host: Todd McShayGuest: Bruce FeldmanProducers: Tucker Tashjian, Conor Nevins, and Daniel ComerSocial: Alysha Tsuji Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Join Todd and Muench every Saturday night throughout the College Football season to recap and react to the biggest games, plays and prospect performances. 0:00 Welcome to The McShay Show!3:12 Week 12 Live Reactions!10:55 (11) Oklahoma stuns (4) Alabama: 23-2130:15 (7) Ole Miss escapes Florida: 34-2434:36 (3) Texas A&M 27 Point Comeback vs. South Carolina: 31-3045:55 (9) Notre Dame defeats (22) Pitt: 37-1551:38 (17) USC defeats (21) Iowa: 26-2157:20 More Week 12 Takeaways1:03:23 TMS Top 121:10:05 Live Q&A with Todd The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Remitly Business: pay global contractors & vendors—fast, secure, reliable. https://bit.ly/RemitlyBusiness Host: Todd McShayProducers: Tucker Tashjian, Conor Nevins, Daniel ComerSocial: Alysha Tsuji Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Welcome to The McShay Show! Todd opens with some draft nuggets from NFL scouts on the road. Then, the guys dive into their separate mock drafts, with trades, value picks, reaches, and more. 0:00 Welcome to The McShay Show! 3:20 Todd's latest draft prospect intel13:30 Week 12 CFB picks17:45 Rough Draft: dueling mock drafts!20:55 Jets TRADE and draft Fernando Mendoza22:45 Titans draft Arvell Reese24:35 Jets TRADE and draft Fernando Mendoza29:00 Saints draft Arvell Reese30:18 Giants draft Spencer Fano31:30 Browns TRADE and draft Ty Simpson32:50 Giants draft Jordyn Tyson34:40 Browns draft Ty Simpson35:15 Titans draft Rueben Bain Jr.36:30 Saints draft Keldric Faulk38:00 Raiders draft Peter Woods38:35 Dolphins draft Spencer Fano39:22 Commanders draft Rueben Bain Jr.39:32 Bengals draft Caleb Downs40:20 Muench's 6-9 draft picks42:50 Dueling mock drafts picks 10-12 Subscribe to The McShay Report for access to view all of Todd’s mock drafts, big boards, scouting reports, and more throughout the college football season. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Remitly Business: pay global contractors & vendors—fast, secure, reliable. https://bit.ly/RemitlyBusiness Host: Todd McShayGuest: Steve MuenchProducers: Tucker Tashjian, Conor Nevins, and Daniel ComerSocial: Alysha Tsuji Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Welcome to The McShay Show! The guys rewind the tape and give their biggest takeaways from Week 11 of college football. 0:00 Welcome to The McShay Show!1:53 10 Tape Truths from Week 114:00 Freshman Pitt QB Mason Heintschel vs. (10) Notre Dame9:30 Fernando was both below and above the Mendoza line25:20 Ty Simpson's tape has become the truth serum for CFB QBs38:00 Georgia's offense is a heavyweight prizefighter42:00 Texas has the best run defense in the country46:37 Georgia's defense lacks stars, but it's deep58:50 USC walk-on RB King Miller is the key to a CFP run1:03:55 The Marcel Reed update1:15:30 JMU's defense is giving the team a shot to make the CFP1:19:35 Jaron-Keawe Sagapolutele is the future Subscribe to The McShay Report for access to all of Todd’s mock drafts, big boards, scouting reports, and more throughout the college football season. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Todd McShayGuest: Steve MuenchProducers: Tucker Tashjian, Conor Nevins, and Daniel ComerSocial: Alysha Tsuji Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Join Todd and Muench every Saturday night throughout the College Football season to recap and react to the biggest games, plays and prospect performances. 0:00 Welcome to The McShay Show! 2:25 Best things we saw today 14:15 Reacting to LSU vs. (4) Alabama 29:08 Diego Pavia and Vandy Survives in OT vs. Auburn30:50 (2) Indiana Defeats Penn State: 27-24 55:30 Who's your Heisman pick right now?57:55 (9) Oregon Escapes (20) Iowa: 18-161:15:00 (8) Texas Tech Defeats (7) BYU: 29-71:31:40 (3) Texas A&M Defeats (22) Missouri: 38-171:37:25 (5) Georgia Defeats Mississippi State: 41-211:45:05 TMS Top 12 The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Todd McShayGuest: Steve MuenchProducers: Tucker Tashjian, Conor Nevins, Daniel ComerSocial: Alysha Tsuji Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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