Product Pals

This is the final episode of 2025 — and it’s really just us saying thank you 💛Just Charlotte and Kiet back where it all started — the two of us on a video call, coffee in hand ☕️, reflecting on a year that flew by faster than we expected.Somewhere between recording episodes, replying to messages, running events, and figuring life out, Product Pals quietly became a community. And this episode is our little pause to acknowledge that.In this conversation, we chat about:The stories, people, and moments from 2025 that stayed with usConversations that went beyond “product” and into being humanA few things we’re learning to let go of as the year closesAnd what we’re gently hoping for in 2026 — for the podcast, and for ourselvesIf Product Pals has been something you’ve listened to on a walk, during a commute, while cooking dinner, or in a quiet moment — this episode is for you.Thank you for being here. Thank you for listening, sharing, and supporting in big and small ways.💛 Product Pals Podcast works best when you’re part of it.We hope you’re getting some real rest, spending time with people you love, and stepping into 2026 feeling a little lighter and hopeful — just as we are!We’ll be back in the new year with more stories, more connection, and the same heart.Enjoy the last few days of 2025, see you in 2026 💛👋 Quick heads-up!You might notice a small Descript watermark on this video.We’re experimenting with a few new podcast tools at the moment and are currently on the free trial while we evaluate whether this platform is right for us (and whether we’ll move from our existing setup).It shouldn’t affect the listening experience — but if it’s distracting or gets in the way, please let us know. Your feedback really helps us improve 💛Thanks so much, and we hope you enjoy the episode!

In this PM Spotlight episode of Product Pals, Charlotte and Kiet sit down with Dipa Rao, Senior Product Manager at Culture Amp, for a refreshingly honest conversation about what product management really looks like behind the job title.With a career spanning Agile coaching, software delivery, consulting, and product leadership, Dipa shares a grounded view of the PM craft - from the difficult shift between delivery and strategy, to how great PMs build trust, create space for deep thinking, and stay genuinely close to customer needs. She also brings a thoughtful perspective on how context shapes product work, including the differences between B2B and B2C environments, team dynamics, and the growing expectations placed on PMs as the role continues to expand.This is a candid and reflective episode for PMs at any stage — especially those navigating senior roles, complexity, and the future of the product craft.🎧 Listen to the full episode of Product Pals — available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube.🍪 Knowledge Snacks (Mentioned in the Episode)🎙 Nikhil Suresh — AI Skeptic & Writer🔗 Substack: https://nihils.substack.com📚 John Cutler — Product Evanglist and thought leader🔗 CutleFish Newsletter: https://cutlefish.substack.com🧠 Richard Feynman — Physicist & Educator🔗 Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Feynman🎬Geeta (Documentary) — Co-produced by Dipa RaoAn award-winning documentary exploring gender and social justice.🔗 https://www.geetafilm.com/🤖 AI Tool Glean — Internal search and knowledge tool connected to Slack, Confluence, and GitHub, used to quickly answer product and organisational questions.🔗 https://www.glean.com/

If you’ve ever transitioned (or wanted to transition) into a Product role, this episode will feel like someone finally saying, “Yes, I get you”This week on PM Spotlight, we sat down with Diane Aung — a Senior B2B SaaS Product Manager whose journey began in customer support and grew into a full end-to-end product career. Diane brings warmth, humour and a refreshingly honest take on what PM life actually looks like behind the job title.In this episode, we explore:✨ Why moving from customer support into Product is an underrated superpower✨ What servant leadership really looks like in fast-moving SaaS teams✨ How Diane navigates alignment, disagreements, and “too many opinions in the room”✨ The mindset shifts and unlearning that helped her level up as a PM✨ How she thinks about the future of product, learning, and designing a career that grows with youWhether you’re new to Product or deep in the craft, Diane’s reflections hit home in all the right ways.🎧 Listen now and follow the Product Pals Podcast for more real stories, messy moments, and bright ideas from PMs who are figuring it out as they go.🍪 Knowledge Bites (from the episode)Jobs to Be Done: Theory to Practice — Anthony UlwickWhat You Do Is Who You Are — Ben HorowitzAmazon Leadership Principles — Jeff BezosQuick Note ❤️You may notice a couple of small video and audio bumps in this episode - we had some internet drops and background noise during recording (the joys of remote podcasting 😅).Huge thanks for your patience, and an even bigger thanks to Diane for rolling with it. The conversation was too good not to share.

In this episode of Product Pals Podcast, Charlotte and Kiet sit down with Paru Madhavan, Product Coach at the ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corporation), wine nerd, and systems thinker.Paru has led teams across travel, fintech, and media, and now focuses on creating environments where people thrive and customers’ problems actually get solved. Together, we unpack the craft and calling of product coaching — what it means, how it differs from managing, and why curiosity might be the most underrated skill in modern product teams.🔑 What you’ll hear:1️⃣ Curiosity beats certainty. If you only remember one question, make it “Why though?” It’s the fastest route to clarity and the cheapest form of user research.2️⃣ Coaching and managing have a lot of similarities. Her MotoGP analogy nails it — a great coach is the crew chief, not the rider. They don’t steer the bike; they tune the system so others can win the race.3️⃣ Balance the doing and the being. There’s no “perfect role.” If your day job doesn’t feed every part of you, side projects and creative hobbies can restore the spark. ( Love this advices!)And ,Why coaching can be a fulfilling path for PMs who want impact without people management💭 A thoughtful, human conversation that reminds us good coaching isn’t about answers — it’s about asking better questions.🍪 Knowledge Snacks (from the episode)John Cutler – reflections on organisational learning and systems thinking (The Beautiful Mess)Marty Cagan – writing on leadership and the role of product managers as coaches (svpg.com)Lisa Adkins –Book<<Coaching Agile Teams>> and the “four stances” frameworkKaren Hao – The Empire of AI (book) and Youtube interview Akash Gupta – newsletter The Neuron (daily AI + PM updates)🎧 Listen now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or YouTube — search Product Pals Podcast.

From public transport design to YouTube stardom, engineer-turned-creator Ting Ting Hu has built a one-person company of creativity, strategy, and heart.In this episode, she joins Charlotte and Kiet to unpack what it means to treat your craft like a product — balancing art, analytics and authenticity.🔑 What you’ll hear:How Ting Ting plays three roles at once: CEO, PM and talent of her own brandHer viral learning loop — what creators can teach PMs about feedback and product-market fitWhy she left “safe” public service to follow joy and meaningThe lesson behind huo ren gan (活人感) — the feeling of being alive — and why every product needs itHow AI quietly powers her reflection, resilience and creativity💭 “You only create half of a product — the other half belongs to your audience.”

In this episode of the Product Pals Podcast, Charlotte and Kiet sit down with Cheryl Saw — Fractional Product Growth & GTM Strategist at Revvy, with over a decade of experience across SaaS (Adobe, Audible), FMCG (Kimberly-Clark), Health/Edu-Tech, and digital agencies.Cheryl’s journey into growth wasn’t planned - it found her. Over the years, she’s built a career solving hard problems in consumer SaaS, from pricing strategy to retention to building product growth teams across Asia Pacific. In this conversation, she shares candid reflections on her path, leadership, and what it means to create sustainable growth.🔑 What you’ll hear:Why pricing isn’t the silver bullet for growth — and how to really test valueThe psychology behind retention and why “cheaper” doesn’t always mean “stickier”Lessons from growing products like Adobe Acrobat and Audible across APACBuilding and leading distributed growth teams from scratchWhy adaptability and curiosity fuel a lasting career in product and growth💡 Cheryl also opens up about her personal journey — from starting in event management to mentoring women in tech and building CandidConvos, a community for meaningful conversations in tech.

In this episode of the Product Pals Podcast, Charlotte and Kiet sit down with Ryan Huynh — Product Manager and co-organiser of ProductTank Sydney.Ryan’s career has spanned AI research, Big Four consulting, and product management. He shares how consulting gave him a toolkit of frameworks, delivery discipline, and stakeholder skills — and how those translate into product craft today.🔑 What you’ll hear:Ryan’s pivot from data & AI into PM, and the big lessons learnedLaunching AQ Intelligence from 0→1 and finding product-market fitWhy he believes the heart of PM is making good decisionsConsulting skills that give PMs an edge in strategy and executionHow AI is shaping his workflow, learning, and view of PM’s futureHis advice to his younger self: learn economics to understand decision-making💡 Plus: Rapid-fire fun, contrarian takes, and a thought-provoking future-guest question:👉 “If product managers don’t exist anymore, what’s the biggest disaster you see?”🎧 Link in first comment  Listen now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your pods.🍪 Knowledge Snacks (from the episode)🍿Economics Explained (Youtube channel) https://www.youtube.com/@EconomicsExplained (Kiet’s recommendation)🍊Freakonomics Stephen J. Dubner and Steven Levitt (book) https://amzn.to/466fSIt (Charlotte’s recommendation)

Welcome to the very first PM Spotlight — a special series from Product Pals celebrating the real stories behind product management.In this debut episode, we sit down with Larry Lai, whose career spans continents and industries: from game design and livestreaming in China, to product roles at tech giants like Tencent and Huya, and now leading SMB livestream products at TikTok Sydney.Larry shares candid reflections on:🎮 The many “flavours” of product management, and how roles shift across industries and cultures🧩 The overlap between Product Management and Design — and why it matters more than we think👥 The leap from individual contributor to product leader — and the challenges of leading with purpose🤖 How AI is reshaping product work, and why it could unlock the rise of one-person companies🔮 His optimistic vision for the future of product managementThis is an honest, inspiring conversation on leadership, design, and staying curious in an AI-driven world.👉 Tune in and celebrate Larry’s journey behind the PM title.📚 The Design of Everyday Things — Don Norman (Larry’s recommendation)🎧 Gamecraft Podcast — Listen here (Kiet’s recommendation)🍪 Knowledge Snacks (from the episode)

Thank you for tuning into this special bonus episode of Product Pals! After our original chat with Will during Men’s Health Month, we were overwhelmed by the heartfelt responses from our listeners. In this short follow-up, Will shares the incredible feedback he received, and we dig a little deeper into why these conversations on men’s mental health are so important.We also touch on topics like:Societal expectations and generational shifts in emotional awarenessAI tools as unconventional support for reflection and self-growthHow to prioritise emotional fitness like physical health💙 Helpful Resources Mentioned in the Episode:Australia’s Mental Health Treatment Plan Access up to 10 individual and 10 group sessions annually through Medicare with a referral from your GP. 🔗 Learn more hereGotcha4Life Mental Fitness Gym App Build your mental fitness with daily emotional check-ins and easy-to-use resources. 🔗 Explore the app here Note: Product Pals is not affiliated with this app—we just think it’s a great tool worth sharing.ChatGPT Reflective Prompt Will mentioned during the podcast (for personal insight and growth):Disclaimer: This is not a substitute for professional mental health support.Act like an analytical and executive psychologist, knowing me well through my behavior, way of thinking, and how I perform.Dive into my personality through five lenses:(1) Actual strengths(2) Deepest weaknesses(3) Recurring patterns of failure(4) Areas I avoid(5) Skills and opportunities I neglect even though they could change my life.Don’t flatter me at all. Use a serious and stern tone, as if my professional future depends on this analysis.After the analysis, present me with a three-stage development plan:(1) What to stop immediately(2) What to start immediately(3) What to rebuild from scratch.Portable Bathtub link Charlotte mentioned (not sponsored links):📬 Connect with our guest and Product PalsWant to reach out to Will directly? He reads every message—just reference this episode!Instagram: @hello_willlyLinkedIn: William Ly💌 You can also contact us via LinkedIn or at productpalspodcast@gmail.com.Let’s keep the conversation going 💬

In this episode of Product Pals, Charlotte and Kiet sit down with their good friend William Ly for a casual chat on mental health—just in time for men’s health month in Australia. This isn’t a professional how-to guide, but rather a vulnerable conversation about recognising our own struggles, knowing when to ask for help, pondering the pros and cons of AI-powered therapy, and practical ways to support loved ones when we spot the warning signs. Tune in for real stories, honest reflections and friendly banter, as we shine a light on why mental wellbeing matters.Some helpful links:https://www.ruok.org.au/findhelphttps://www.beyondblue.org.au/https://www.lifeline.org.au/

In this episode of Product Pals, Charlotte and Kiet return to the heart of product management — product thinking — and unpack how it connects with the broader Influence-Dynamics Map (IDM). They dive into the real differences between product and systems thinking, demystify how to craft vision without the corporate fluff, and break down why execution and operations deserve their own spotlight (even if they often get lumped together).Expect practical frameworks, honest reflections, and relatable stories from the product trenches — all aimed at helping you think more clearly, act more strategically, and lead with more intention.📚 If you’re keen to dig deeper, we’ve gathered some of our favourite reads and resources below. A few links are affiliate ones — so if you do click and buy, you might be funding a future Product Pals coffee (or at least part of my flat white). No pressure, just pals supporting pals.🔗 Further Reading & ResourcesProduct Pals Medium Blog: Influence-Dynamic Map OverviewThinking, Fast and Slow – Daniel Kahneman → amzn.to/4mE2BynStart With Why – Simon Sinek → amzn.to/4kJUxdFPlaying to Win – A.G. Lafley & Roger Martin → amzn.to/3GYtpc6Escaping the Build Trap – Melissa Perri → amzn.to/45eO4CEMelissa Perri’s LinkedIn Post on PM CareersSpotify Squad Health Check Model

In this short bonus episode, Charlotte and Kiet reflect on our first-ever Product Pals live event at the Atlassian office in Sydney. From energising conversations to some truly thoughtful feedback, we’re taking it all on board as we evolve the Influence Dynamic Map model and future episodes. It’s a quick debrief filled with gratitude and next steps – tune in!

Product managers are often pressured to make quick decisions—but what if taking a systems thinking approach led to better, more strategic solutions?In this episode of Product Pals, Charlotte and Kiet uncover how systems thinking helps PMs step back, assess the bigger picture, and make smarter decisions. We discuss:🔹 The importance of System Thinking and how does it different from default mental model🔹 how to leverage our Product Pals’ original Dynamics-Influence Model - Systems Thinking for PMs to discover and explore different dynamic across all layers that influence your decisions🔹 Practical tools and advices to enhance your strategic thinking and decision-making skillsIf you want to go beyond short-term solutions and develop a strategic mindset for long-term impact, this episode is for you.🎧 Listen now and elevate your approach to problem-solving!

Failure is tough to face, but it’s also one of the most powerful tools for growth.In this episode of Product Pals, Charlotte and Kiet share candid reflections on their biggest failures and how these experiences have shaped their approach to work and collaboration. From early career missteps to hard-earned lessons, they dive into the uncomfortable but necessary practice of embracing failure as a learning opportunity.Discover how fostering a culture of openness and trust can help teams turn mistakes into innovation and create an environment where everyone thrives. If you’ve ever struggled with setbacks or want to explore how failure can fuel your growth, this episode is for you.🎧 Tune in now and join the conversation!

In this episode of Product Pals, Charlotte and Kiet tackle the often-overlooked connection between product management and finance. From Charlotte's personal journey of rediscovering her relationship with money to Kiet’s experiences with financial modelling, they dive into how understanding the numbers can transform your product strategy. They share practical tips for building financial knowledge, including how to tackle the vulnerability of discussing money, the importance of mentorship, and the power of financial models in decision-making. Whether you're new to product management or a seasoned pro, join us for insights on how finance can help you make better, more confident product decisions and drive real business impact!

In this episode of Product Pals, we dive into continuous learning and growth as product managers. From structured courses to on-the-job learning, Charlotte and Kiet share their favourite approaches and challenges in keeping their knowledge up to date, including how to seek and keep our motivation, what are the more accessible channels of learning in a budget and time constrained environment and how to prioritise your learning backlog . We explore the Shu Ha Ri model of mastery, the "zone of genius," and finding purpose in work. If you’re navigating your own growth as a PM, tune in for insights on curiosity, purpose, and career alignment.

How do you bring your thinking model and skills to life during a case study interview? Feeling a bit overwhelmed while preparing? We've been there. In this episode of Product Pals, we challenge ourselves with a live case study simulation focused on AI-driven job displacement. We walk through our thinking models, share different strategies, and provide practical advice for navigating frameworks and solving complex problems. With insights and tips throughout, we hope you'll feel more prepared to confidently showcase your PM skills in your next case study interview!

In this first episode of Product Pals, we’re diving into the real talk on what it’s like to be a product manager. From balancing customer needs with business goals to navigating roadblocks and celebrating small wins, we share the unfiltered ups and downs of the Product Manager role.  Discover why understanding your customer isn’t just a textbook exercise, the battles worth fighting, and the unexpected joys that make it all worthwhile. Whether you’re new to product management or just curious about the journey, join us for a candid conversation about the moments that matter most. Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Productpals/comments/1e7eaaw/welcome_to_product_pals/