In Defense of Fandom

We're back! And with some exciting news! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the promo for In Defense of Fandom! This is just an introduction to the show, and episode 1 will be available March 7th (to celebrate the end of S1 of The Winchesters!).   Make sure to hit subscribe so you don’t miss out!   https://youtu.be/M0QhgQ-g4C0 Sarah Z video on Destielgate   Voices heard in this episode/promo (in order): Jenn: @rupertgayes (twitter) Robin: @caslostwings (twitter) Dani: @lotrspnfangirl  (twitter) Liz: @__ellie (twitter) Shawn Taylor: https://www.shawntaylor.net/ Mary: @maryturner_ (twitter)   Podcast Host & Creator: Sadie Witkowski (@SadieWit on twitter) Editorial support was provided by Dr. Anna Funk (@DrAnnaFunk on twitter) Cover art was designed by Liz (@__ellie on twitter Music (Country Rock and Roll) by AudioCoffee from Pixabay   Please support this project through Ko-Fi https://ko-fi.com/in_defense_of_fandom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ever wonder what happens when a TV show's crew forms a band? We got answers from two members of The Impalas - Supernatural's incredibly talented crew band that rocked wrap parties and even appeared as the Roadhouse band in an actual episode. Jim Michaels (Producer) reveals that crew bands are a TV tradition, explains The Impalas' "full-time crew members only" rule, and shares how their drummer was SO good that recording studios started hiring him. Also confirmed: Jensen Ackles is annoyingly talented at everything. Brad Creasser (Camera Operator/Saxophonist) played with the band despite being "terrified" of performing. He recalls the Hunker Down Festival where Vancouver crews battled with their bands, and the magical moment filming Rob Benedict's "Fare Thee Well." PLUS: Ben Edlund on writing the Ghost Facers theme, his recorder orchestra trauma, and his own band Ghost Tyger & Friends (where he's definitely NOT being possessed by a pro-cannibalism interdimensional tiger who wants you to recycle grandma into furniture). Highlights: The physics-defying Kansas Comic-Con surprise, why "Renegade" is the perfect needle drop, Jensen's musical beginnings, and a passionate defense of paying for real music instead of cheap sound-alikes. Warning: Contains references to eating the dead and bismuth discussions. Special thanks to Ghost Tyger & Friends for allowing us to feature some of their music. Find tracks and more at https://bit.ly/4ixhyjN. Catch up on Supernatural Music Extravaganza episodes below: Meet your co-hosts | https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/spn20-music-extravaganza-meet-your-co-hosts/id1674695211?i=1000736281187  More than Background Music - Creating the Convention Experience | https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/spn20-music-extravaganza-more-than-background-music/id1674695211?i=1000737194995  Splitting the Score - Two Composers, One Iconic Soundtrack | https://www.buzzsprout.com/2076426/episodes/18236856 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to episode two of the Denim Wrapped Nightmares and In Defensive Fandom crossover! This episode dives deep into the sonic soul of Supernatural—from the classic rock that made us fall in love with the show to the music keeping the fandom alive today. Billy Moran - Guitarist for Louden Swain, Billy was actually a Supernatural fan BEFORE he joined Rob Benedict's band. Discover how a Flash website with a virtual car radio led him to the show, why he had to learn 70 classic rock songs (spoiler: he didn't), and the origin story of the mysteriously named "Elastic Waistband" (RIP to those wigs). Billy shares tales from the road, explains why the tour van's worst seat is forever known as "the butthole," and reveals which Louden Swain song was directly inspired by a disastrous snowy Atlanta tour. Chris Schmelke - Creation Entertainment's official photographer and the maestro behind those perfectly curated photo op playlists. Chris explains why music is absolutely critical to creating magic in the photo room, how he DJs on the fly while shooting, and why certain songs are permanently banned (looking at you, "Africa" by Toto—sorry Jen!). Plus, learn about his own rock band origins and why he kisses Rob Benedict on the cheek every time he joins Louden Swain on stage. Key Moments The exact moment Billy discovered Supernatural (hint: it involved an interactive website) Why Mark Sheppard told them to ditch the Elastic Waistband persona Chris's philosophy: treat photo ops like experiences, not cattle calls Why the Saturday Night Special is really about celebrating that Rob Benedict is still here Grab your flannel, crank up the classic rock, and join us for a conversation about how music became the beating heart of the Supernatural fandom—both on screen and off. Special thanks to Billy for allowing us to feature some of his music. Find tracks and more at https://www.billymoran.com/. A Denim Wrapped Nightmares and In Defensive Fandom podcast crossover Follow Denim-wrapped Nightmares for our next episode: https://denimwrappednightmares.buzzsprout.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sadie, along with Denim-wrapped Nightmare's Berly and LA, kick off their massive 10-episode collaboration celebrating the 20th anniversary of Supernatural by diving into the show's iconic musical legacy. And yes, they interviewed over 20 people for this series because apparently they're all insane. The episode opens with a power move: Sadie asking Jared and Jensen about Supernatural's music at a convention panel (using Berly's name callout because Berly is a good friend who understands true J2 fandom priorities). From there, the hosts explore why music became so fundamental to the show's DNA—including Eric Kripke almost quitting over the network wanting to ditch classic rock for "current, exciting, young music." They discuss fan-favorite needle drops, with Death's entrance to "O Death" taking the crown as most mentioned, followed by the "Renegade" escape in "Night Shifter" and "Rooster" in "Folsom Prison Blues." There's also a moment of silence for all the needle drops lost to streaming music licensing (RIP "Don't Fear the Reaper" in the Faith episode). The hosts break down the convention music experience—Saturday Night Specials, Louden Swain as the house band, Jason Manns, and the revelation that there's literally music everywhere at these things. LA admits she had no idea conventions even had concerts before attending her first one. Important PSA: This series features interviews with composers Chris Lennertz and Jay Gruska, musicians inspired by the show, and approximately everyone talented in the Supernatural universe (who was willing to meet with us). Subscribe to both podcasts to hear all the interviews, because yes, you have to follow both feeds. It's free though, so they're really not that evil about it. The series drops November 11th and runs through the end of the year! Special thanks to Steve Hein, producer of the hit podcast, Supernatural Then and Now, for permission to include the conversation with Eric Kripke. Find their full discussion at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/spotlight-on-eric-kripke/id1605385289?i=1000646839769 Find and follow Denim-wrapped Nightmares at https://www.buzzsprout.com/2076426. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A Mixtape 20 years in the making In a multi-part Supernatural 20th anniversary special, we’re collaborating with Denim-Wrapped Nightmares to explore music that made the show, music inspired by the show, and music from the show's cast, writers, and crew. We interviewed musicians, crew, and cast members to hear directly from them how important music was (and is!) to the SPN family. Make sure you subscribe to both feeds to not miss an episode, starting this November! Subscribe to Denim-Wrapped Nightmares: https://denimwrappednightmares.buzzsprout.com/ Follow our socials for more info: https://www.facebook.com/dwnpod https://www.instagram.com/sadie_wit/ https://www.instagram.com/dwnpod/ https://bsky.app/profile/sadiewit.bsky.social https://twitter.com/DWNpodcast https://x.com/SadieWit https://www.patreon.com/DWNpod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Here's another bonus episode while I work on the next season! A conversation with writer of television, animation, comics, and audio: Meghan Fitzmartin. And for my fellow SPN family out there, you will recognize her name as first a writers assistant for Supernatural to a staffed writer in the final season, penning the episodes Piece of Mind and Drag Me Away (From You). More on Meghan and her upcoming comic, Mary Sue: https://www.boom-studios.com/archives/first-look-mary-sue-1/ https://bleedingcool.com/comics/scoop-mary-sue-a-new-comic-by-meghan-fitzmartin-from-boom-studios/ https://www.meghanfitzmartin.com/ Editorial Support by Dr. Anna Funk: @itsdrfunk.bsky.social Music written & performed by Chris Scott: @Chrispscott Cover art by Liz Hand: @__ellie See full episode transcript at www.sadiewit.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This conversation with fellow Geekscapists is a post-San Diego Comic Con(versation) covering press passes to running activation booths to attending as a panelist! Check out the other Geekscape Podcasts & Projects: Jonathan London: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/geekscapeforever/hero-of-the-prophecy-1-a-pro-wrestling-comedic-fantasy Christian Bladt: https://www.weirdalgorithmpodcast.com/ Tessa Markle: https://www.femmeregard.com/ Katie Hampton: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/marvel-movie-talk/id1699318146, https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/napping-through-happy-hour/id1628046345, https://www.chicagobacon.com/internet-supreme-court Editorial Support by Dr. Anna Funk: @itsdrfunk.bsky.social Music written & performed by Chris Scott: @Chrispscott Cover art by Liz Hand: @__ellie See full episode transcript at www.sadiewit.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

While I’m still working on creating both a special collaboration mini series and mapping out season 4, I wanted to provide you listeners with a special treat! This episode is an interview with Supernatural's production designer, producer, and occasional director: Jerry Wanek! We talk about his experience working on Supernatural, how the show reflected timeless styles from the iconic motel rooms to the art deco Bunker, and how he relates to the fandom. Oh, and we even go on a little tangent about famed Texas author Larry McMurtry! Editorial Support by Dr. Anna Funk: @itsdrfunk.bsky.social Music written & performed by Chris Scott: @Chrispscott Cover art by Liz Hand: @__ellie See full episode transcript at www.sadiewit.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

With season 3 wrapped, we wanted to see what lingering questions you have about parasocial relationships. Editor Anna Funk joins Sadie on the mic to answer some listener questions and reflect on the season as a whole. Editorial Support by Dr. Anna Funk: @itsdrfunk.bsky.social Music written & performed by Chris Scott: @Chrispscott Cover art by Liz Hand: @__ellie See full episode transcript at www.sadiewit.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this final installment of the season, we wrap up final thoughts on the state of celebrity worship, fame, and parasociality. We’ll also hear a bit more about the positive things that we can get out of parasocial relationships, some of the risks to watch out for, and discuss the future of parasociality. Editorial Support by Dr. Anna Funk: @itsdrfunk.bsky.social Music written & performed by Chris Scott: @Chrispscott And new music written & performed by August Hotel: @augusthotel Cover art by Liz Hand: @__ellie See full episode transcript at www.sadiewit.com To submit your questions or comments for the bonus episode, send your message to sadie.witkowski@gmail.com Resources from this episode: https://time.com/6294226/parasocial-relationships-benefits/ https://health.clevelandclinic.org/parasocial-relationships https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/sixteenth-minute-of-fame/id1743960803 https://www.404media.co/mage-space-new-restrictions-non-consensual-porn-celebrities/ https://www.404media.co/character-ai-chatbot-changes-filters-roleplay/ https://www.404media.co/ai-therapy-bots-meta-character-ai-ftc-complaint/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We’ve talked about parasocial relationships as a one-way street, but can that ever change? Is there a way for a parasocial bond to become just a regular friendship? What would that even look like? Hear examples of how parasocial relationships became something more reciprocal, and learn whether that’s likely to be a rare event or something more commonplace. Editorial Support by Dr. Anna Funk: @itsdrfunk.bsky.social Music written & performed by Chris Scott: @Chrispscott And new music written & performed by August Hotel: @augusthotel Cover art by Liz Hand: @__ellie See full episode transcript at www.sadiewit.com Resources from this episode: https://denimwrappednightmares.buzzsprout.com/ https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/articles/mark-sheppard-wife-sarah-louise-151720015.html https://people.com/how-did-taylor-swift-and-travis-kelce-meet-8405807 To submit your questions or comments, send your message to sadie.witkowski@gmail.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Has the internet made us all worse at relationships, including the parasocial ones? We’ll talk about the celebrity attitude scale, which measures how intensely an audience member feels about a celebrity, how the internet has changed our media diets, and how online relationships are a blessing and a curse. Editorial Support by Dr. Anna Funk: @itsdrfunk.bsky.social Music written & performed by Chris Scott: @Chrispscott And new music written & performed by August Hotel: @augusthotel Cover art by Liz Hand: @__ellie See full episode transcript at www.sadiewit.com Resources from this episode: https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20160106-how-sherlock-holmes-changed-the-world https://defector.com/chapell-roan-fan-privacy-drama?utm_source=mckinneykelsey&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=the-terror-of-the-mirror-a-2024-review https://www.tiktok.com/@chappellroan/video/7404957266853645611?lang=en https://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037%2Ft04928-000 http://www.jssshonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/JSSSH_Vol.7_No.1_2021_66-75_Sr.-No.7.pdf https://www.esquire.com/food-drink/drinks/g22118748/best-celebrity-liquors/ https://al-kindipublisher.com/index.php/jhsss/article/view/279 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lgNPGH1rXI https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/gal-gadot-s-imagine-instagram-video-was-peak-cringe-year-ncna1261685 https://www.theguardian.com/film/2022/jan/05/gal-gadot-imagine-video Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What’s it like to be in-between a celebrity and their fans? What’s it like to have a real relationship with a famous person—and have fans think you might be an access point to that person? Editorial Support by Dr. Anna Funk: @itsdrfunk.bsky.social Music written & performed by Chris Scott: @Chrispscott And new music written & performed by August Hotel: @augusthotel Cover art by Liz Hand: @__ellie See full episode transcript at www.sadiewit.com Resources from this episode: Listen to Normal Gossip: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/normal-gossip/id1597761181 Read 'You didn't hear this from me': https://bookshop.org/p/books/you-didn-t-hear-this-from-me-mostly-true-notes-on-gossip-kelsey-mckinney/21441330 See Bert's "showgirl" costumed look: https://www.instagram.com/resortsworldlv/p/C8pYKvHP667/ Chicago Music Exchange: https://www.instagram.com/chicagomusicexchange/ Jennifer's gofundme: https://www.gofundme.com/f/jp-jennifer-may-nickel-eaton-fire-relief-fund Ackles' dog, Icarus: https://www.instagram.com/danneelackles512/p/B-hx9mzgYBC/?img_index=1 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm so sorry for the delay, but I promise you will have a brand-spanking-new episode in your feed in 2 weeks. In the meantime, support NPR/PBS! Support local journalism! And find ways to give back to your community around you, because this is the only way we're going to make it through. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Explore how parasocial relationships may, or may not, differ across mediums. I speak with creators in music, podcasting, youtube, and musical threater spaces to hear how each of their experiences are different and yet so similar! Editorial Support by Dr. Anna Funk: @itsdrfunk.bsky.social Music written & performed by Chris Scott: @Chrispscott And new music written & performed by August Hotel: @augusthotel Cover art by Liz Hand: @__ellie See full episode transcript at www.sadiewit.com Resources from this episode: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_medium_is_the_message https://reggieslive.com/band/august-hotel/ https://www.hyperfixedpod.com/ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/western-kabuki/id1647062210 https://www.alimattu.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What happens when our minds fixate on an actor or band member or podcaster and we start to see things that aren’t there? When a fan feels so much closer to their idolized famous person than they really are? AKA, What’s the deal with parasocial relationships? Editorial Support by Dr. Anna Funk: @DrAnnaFunk Music written & performed by Chris Scott: @Chrispscott Cover art by Liz Hand: @__ellie See full episode transcript at www.sadiewit.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A HUGE thank you to Marie for letting me rebroadcast this lovely conversation with her from March 2024. If you aren't already, you should subscribe to Carrying Wayward for all their excellent episodes: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/carrying-wayward-a-supernatural-podcast/id1541257824 Editorial Support by Dr. Anna Funk: @DrAnnaFunk Music written & performed by Chris Scott: @Chrispscott Cover art by Liz Hand: @__ellie Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Don't forget to send me your fan questions! You can reach out via twitter (@SadieWit), instagram (@Sadie_Wit) or my website form (sadiewit.com) Link to Jonathan's Kickstarter: www.herooftheprophecy.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I catch up with costume designer Jennifer May Nickel regarding the aftermath of the Eaton fire in LA. Jennifer & JP’s gofundme: https://www.gofundme.com/f/jp-jennifer-may-nickel-eaton-fire-relief-fund?modal=donations&tab=all RA recovery fund: https://give.randomacts.org/campaign/random-acts-natural-disaster-recovery-fund/c656615 Geekscape podcaster’s gofundme: bit.ly/DustinErin Creation Entertainment’s employee, Leticia, gofundme: https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-leticia-serafin-rebuild-after-eaton-fire Other links of interest: Variety story about Jennifer’s experience: https://variety.com/2025/biz/news/the-ark-writer-john-paul-nickel-gotham-knights-costume-designer-jennifer-nickel-la-fires-1236274591/ Jennifer’s original In Defense of Fandom podcast interview: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bonus-4-the-costumes-of-gotham-knights/id1674695211?i=1000633178023 Story on Supernatural’s creator, Eric Kripke, also lost his home in the fires: https://comicbook.com/tv-shows/news/the-boys-creator-eric-kripke-shares-devastating-photo-after-home-burned-in-la-fires/ LA Strong Volunteer Donation Fund: https://lacity.gov/LAstrong Geekscape Specific: http://www.geekscapegives.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices