The VBAC Facts® Podcast with Jen Kamel

In this episode, Jen shares a personal update and announces that the podcast will be on hiatus.Have a comment or question for the podcast? Want to suggest a guest we should interview or a topic we should discuss? Go to https://vbacfacts.com/podcast to give us your feedback!Downloadable Handout: 3 Surprising Things US National Guidelines Say About VBAC | VBAC Facts®Downloadable Checklist: The 5 Simple Steps to Planning a VBAC | VBAC Facts®Downloadable Report: Top 5 Uterine Rupture Myths Debunked Once and For All | VBAC Facts®Professional Speaking & Continuing Education Training with Jen Kamel- VBAC Facts®The Truth About VBAC™ for Families | VBAC Facts® Course for ParentsConsulting for Parents, Professionals, Legal & Policy Teams │ VBAC Facts® VBAC Facts® Professional Membership | VBAC Facts® Continuing EducationMusic produced by (Analogue)/(prod. Analogue). Instagram: @prod.analogue

Licia Popernack was told that she had a curved tailbone and would never give birth vaginally. And after two cesareans, both after reaching 10 centimeters and pushing for hours, could that be true? Plus, she was only five feet and one inch tall...Licia shares with us the challenges she faced on her journey to a victorious hospital VBA2C from friends and family who wondered why this was so important to her to skepticism from healthcare providers and her own fears. She reflects upon her choices during her first and second pregnancies and labors, including why she didn't, and then did, get an epidural as well as reveals how she processed her cesareans. She recounts how her third labor was different than her first two - including her nurse who helped her into various positions that facilitated her VBA2C - showing that if you just change one thing, you can have a totally different outcome. With her two prior FTP cesareans, the VBAC calculator would have predicted very low odds, but Licia pursued her dream of a vaginal birth proving that it is possible!00:00 Meet Licia Popernack!03:44 Why She Wanted to Share Her Story08:02 What Her Doctor Said About Her VBAC Odds08:52 Her First Pregnancy 10:53 Biggest Regret: "But That Locked Her In..."12:01 Pushed For Four Hours, Then Cesarean14:32 Her Doctor Had An Early Flight15:24 Postpartum: "I Felt Really Isolated"18:05 What Would Have Felt Supportive and Validating to Her20:49 Download Our Free Resources21:43 What Was She Told About VBAC?23:00 Her Second Pregnancy24:43 Changed Providers at 34 Weeks!27:54 "Why Don't You Just Schedule Another Cesarean?"31:07 Her Second Labor: "She Said I Could Never Have a Vaginal Birth"32:25 Her Decision To Get An Epidural34:12 Vacuum, FTP, Second Cesarean, and NICU35:58 Processing Her Planned VBAC and Second Cesarean39:08 Pregnant After Two Cesareans, Now What?42:21 How Her Third Labor Was Different Than The First Two48:23 " Made Me Get Into Positions That Weren't Comfortable For Me"51:30 Did Anyone Mention Placenta Accreta?52:39 Her VBA1C and VBA2C Advice55:41 What She Would Have Done Differently58:54 "Changed Me To Be More Accepting Of Things"59:54 Advice: "But My Doctor Won't Let Me Plan a VBAC"01:00:55 "There's Not One Thing That's Right For Everyone"Have a comment or question for the podcast? Want to suggest a guest we should interview or a topic we should discuss? Go to https://vbacfacts.com/podcast to give us your feedback!Downloadable Checklist: The 5 Simple Steps to Planning a VBAC | VBAC Facts®Downloadable Report: Top 5 Uterine Rupture Myths Debunked Once and For All | VBAC Facts®Professional Speaking & Continuing Education Training with Jen Kamel- VBAC Facts®The Truth About VBAC™ for Families | VBAC Facts® Course for ParentsE7 40+ VBAC Myths Busted! Plus Hospital VBA2C After Uterine Defect - The VBAC Facts® Podcast - Apple PodcastsConsulting for Parents, Professionals, Legal & Policy Teams │ VBAC Facts® Sign up for your copy of the Top Three VBAC Myths! | VBAC Facts®Vaginal birth after two cesareans (VBA2C): An overview of the evidence - VBAC Facts® ArticleThe Truth...

93% of women pregnant after one or more cesareans are not informed about the risk of placenta accreta spectrum that rises with each subsequent cesarean. Instead, they are assured that a repeat cesarean is safe and a planned VBAC is risky and, as a result, they schedule another cesarean. Dawn Baranski was one of those women. After enduring the bait and switch after her first cesarean, she had one more cesarean with her OB's assurance that placenta issues are a "one in a million chance." When she got pregnant again after three cesareans, she developed placenta percreta - the most severe degree of placenta accreta spectrum - where the placenta grows through the uterine wall and attaches to other abdominal organs, most commonly the bladder. The safest way for her baby to be born was a complicated cesarean hysterectomy ending her fertility. Dawn recounts inadequate informed consent, her emotional and physical recovery from a cesarean hysterectomy, and why she considered an unassisted birth. She shares how her hysterectomy impacts her health to this day as she manages a vaginal prolapse and rectocele and her important message for parents and health care professionals. Jen also contrasts new research which found VBAC was accessible in only 16% of U.S. counties against a report from earlier this year where 84% of hospitals said they offered VBAC as well as her next virtual speaking engagement, opportunities for VBAC education for medical, midwifery, and nursing students, and reader feedback on therapeutic rest.03:34 16% of US Counties Offer VBAC11:06 Leapfrog Report: 84% of US Hospitals Offer VBAC14:18 Next Speaking Engagement: Keynote at InJoy's 5th Annual (Virtual) Summit16:29 VBAC Education for Medical, Midwifery, & Nursing Students17:40 Reader Feedback: Therapeutic Rest & 24 Hour Labor Limit19:51 Introducing Dawn  Baranski20:50 Six Prior Vaginal Births, First Cesarean22:20 Bait & Switch Strikes Again24:49 What the OB Advised After Two Cesareans26:29 Thought About Unassisted Birth, Had 3rd Cesarean27:43 What the OB Said About Cesarean Complications30:51 Mother's Autonomy & Decision Making Scale32:18 Why She Wanted An Unassisted Birth After Three Cesareans35:45 Why She Choose to Birth Her Baby in Texas41:33 Birthing Her Baby via Cesarean Hysterectomy45:18 Health Issues From Her Hysterectomy47:13 Why She Had a Cesarean Hysterectomy For Her Percreta49:33 Hysterectomy Induced Early Perimenopause/Menopause51:00 Hormone Replacement Therapy During Perimenopause51:50 How Recovery From a Cesarean Hysterectomy is Different Than a Cesarean55:32 What Hysterectomy Has To Do With Vaginal Prolapse & Rectocele57:44 Advice For Those Who Need A Cesarean Hysterectomy58:39 "I Wouldn't Have Showed Up For My Scheduled C-Section"01:00:07 Advice For Those Pregnant After One Cesarean01:01:01 Advice For Those Pregnant After Two Cesareans01:01:48 "There Was So Much Information That I Was Not Told"01:02:24 Physician Dismisses Future Risks as "Theoretical"01:05:14 "VBAC Poses Unnecessary Risk We Can Avoid Through C-Sections"01:07:04 "It's Hard 'Cause I Don't Trust Them"01:09:12 "We Don't Attend VBAC Because We Can Get Sued"01:12:59 What She Would Say To The OB Who Performed Her First Cesarean01:13:57 What Dawn Wants You To Know01:15:02 How Her Births Have Changed Her01:15:50 Her Advice: "My Doctor Won't Let Me Have a VBAC"Want to suggest a guest we should interview, topic we should discuss, or share your birth story? You can at https://vbacfacts.com/podcast!a...

Never thought you would have an abortion? That's exactly what Wisconsin mom and maternal health advocate Megan Kling believed until she became pregnant with her third much wanted and planned child.Megan courageously shares her deeply personal story of terminating two pregnancies for medical reasons. She discusses the profound impact of abortion restrictions, the challenges of navigating medical insurance, and the importance of advocating for safer maternal healthcare. Megan's story highlights the complexities behind abortion legislation, its real-life effects on everyday moms, the inadequacy of exceptions for the life of the mother, and how, if you can become pregnant, abortion laws impact you. She also addresses the concept of "babies born alive from botched abortions," how she coped with losing two much wanted children, and why she had to leave her state to access evidence based health care. Along the way, she shares how she traveled to a larger hospital to VBAC her second child with unsupportive providers as well as her subsequent plans to VBAC a second time at her local rural, community hospital, and how the June 2024 presidential debate propelled her participation in a political ad. Tune in to hear her powerful narrative that sheds light on why empathetic and evidence-based healthcare is crucial for all women.00:00 Welcome to Episode 18!03:29 Seeking Guests: Level 1 Hospitals That Offer VBAC04:21 Meet Megan!05:44 Why Share Her Story07:07 If You Can Become Pregnant, Abortion Restrictions Can Impact You11:18 First Pregnancy and Cesarean13:14 No Mention of VBAC or Increased Risks After Cesarean14:11 Pregnant Again, But Rural Hospital Says, "No VBACs"17:32 VBAC Calculator Says 38%18:54 Free VBAC Resources19:48 "...I Guess We'll Let You Labor Anyway"23:00 Third Pregnancy, Returns to Rural Hospital for Second VBAC23:41 What Happens If I Decline a Cesarean?25:47 Patients Are Not Obligated To Follow Hospital Policy26:43 There Is Something Very Wrong29:35 The Diagnosis31:59 What Are The Abortion Laws In Wisconsin?35:39 "Born Alive From Botched Abortions"37:11 Pregnancy Is Too Complex To Legislate38:02 How She Coped With Her Son's Passing39:06 Ready To Try Again40:04 Pregnant With Plans to VBAC at Community Hospital43:06 And It Happens Again44:09 Can't Access The Medications She Needs Due to Fear Surrounding Abortion Laws47:09 "If I Had Not Experienced This, I Would've Never Known To Ask This Question"48:14 Her Fourth Child's Birth48:58 Umbilical Cord Abnormality51:30 Why Did She Need To Leave The State?52:32 How Abortion Bans Impact Health Care For All55:33 Want to Learn More About VBAC?56:53 Insurance May Not Cover Abortion Care (Even When Medically Indicated)59:54 The Healthcare Gap Planned Parenthood Fills01:01:29 Can You Get Pregnant? Abortion Laws Can Impact You.01:03:09 What Has All This Media Exposure Been Like?01:04:43 Agreeing To Be In A Political Ad01:06:15 Speaking Even When Your Voice Shakes01:09:15 Listen To The Voice Screaming Inside You01:12:37 How She Has Grown01:14:25 Advice For Women Pregnant With A Non-Viable Pregnancy01:15:18 What She Wishes She Knew At The Beginning01:16:45 The Ripple Effect Of Her Pregnancies01:17:50 How She Engages With Healthcare Now01:18:44 Jen's Experience With Misinformation & Pelvic Prolapse01:20:40 Abortion Bans Do Not Care About The Life Of The Mother01:23:32 Unintended Consequences & Abortion Bans01:24:33 Make Your Voice Heard01:25:12 Women's Health Is Inherently Political01:26:31 Our Summer Hiatus, See You In The Fall Have a comment or question for the podcast? Want to suggest a guest we should interview or a topic we should...

Confusion and fear over lawsuits drives health care in the US and even more so within obstetrics and midwifery. In the midst of defensive medicine as default, many clinicians miss the one decision that provides ultimate litigation protection. Hermine Hayes-Klein is single handedly changing the landscape relative to litigation within maternal health care. An informed consent expert and international civil and human rights attorney, she specializes in the abuse of women and birthing people by the maternal health system. We will discuss:the cognitive disconnect among healthcare providers regarding informed consent during pregnancy and childbirthlegal cases that illustrate widespread rights violations her recent $1.73 million jury verdictthe legal and ethical mandates that protect pregnant women's rightsthe role of lawyers in enforcing these rights conventional wisdom like "you'll never be sued for a cesarean" and "liability concerns makes us do it"how doctors will be held accountable for not respecting patient rightswhy "birth can't be planned" is insultinghow juries recognize trauma as an injury that matterswhy clinicians should support women's choices even if it scares themAdditionally, Jen talks about her upcoming VBAC training for the Los Angeles County Department of Public Health and answers a reader's question about prior uterine dehiscence and future uterine rupture risk. 00:00 Welcome To Episode 17!02:07 Next VBAC Facts® Training03:58 Reader Question: Prior Uterine Dehiscence11:23 Telemedicine VBAC Consults12:44 Introducing Hermine Hayes-Klein14:06 The Violation of Informed Consent17:34 "You'll Never Be Sued For Doing a Cesarean" And Other Myths18:57 Perverse Liability Incentives20:12 VBAC Resources21:06 Doctors Will Be Held Accountable For Not Respecting Client's Rights21:42 Rinat Dray's Forced Cesarean25:33 $1.73 Million Dollar Judgement26:39 Cognitive Disconnect in Maternity Care31:18 "Birth Can't Be Planned" Is Insulting32:11 Sample Birth Plan Language32:31 Hooked Up & Induced, No Medical Reason33:15 Running, Sobbing, Sleepwalking33:44 Diagnosed with "Adjustment Disorder" Instead of PTSD34:07 "The Kind of Abuse That Happens To Women Every Day"35:00 "The Baby's Healthy, Why Are We Even Here?"35:49 Babies Need Their Mothers To Be Healthy36:11 Juries Recognize Trauma As An Injury That Matters36:50 Hold Doctors Accountable For Doing What The Law Requires36:59 Next Case Challenges, "You Are Not Allowed"39:12 "The Very Real Risks of Cesarean Are Dumped Onto The Birthing Patient"39:46 Birth Trauma Not About Mode of Delivery40:22 Who is Liable for Complications?41:17 "Liability Makes Us Do It" Is A Lie41:42 VBAC Facts Courses45:06 Should We "Go Slow?" Are We "There Yet?"46:26 The Law of Informed Consent Means...46:56 "Keep Telling Them That They Have To Strap Down For The Belt"48:26 What Violating Informed Consent Looks Like49:46 Bodily Autonomy "Goes Both Ways?"51:15 Let's Be Clear About Maternal Death52:33 News Articles When Women Die During Childbirth, Often, It's Cesarean53:30 We Are Pro Evidence Based Care and Informed Consent55:21 OBGYNs Should Support Patient Decisions, Even If It Scares Them57:01 When An OB Realized Her Informed Consent Process Was Coercive58:24 OB's Testimony Regarding Informed Consent01:00:32 Women and Birthing People Are The Captain Of The Ship01:01:13 Rights Exist Even In Rural HospitalsHave a comment or question for the podcast? Want to suggest a guest we should interview or a topic we should discuss? Go to

Want to change hospital policy, VBAC ban, placenta policy, or otherwise? Barbara Stratton is your gal. In this interview, Barbara reflects back on over 20 years of activism and shares her biggest tips to changing hospital policy as well as what first time parents wish they knew. She shares insights on speaking to the media, planning a rally, searching for the perfect VBAC plaintiff as well as the secret to activism. The discussion also includes: how Medicare/Medicaid said hospitals cannot enforce VBAC bans, caution for hospital based childbirth classes as well as birth centers inside hospitals, and why she created her Birth Words Poetry Magnet Set! Plus Jen shares: her upcoming speaking engagement with the Los Angeles County Department of Public Health, reader Katelyn's experience with the VBAC calculator, and observations from VBAC Facts'® first month on TikTok including why mothers shouldn't always "listen to your doctor" and the privilege embedded in the statement "find another provider/hospital who is supportive of VBAC." All this and more in episode 16 of The VBAC Facts® Podcast!01:55 Upcoming Events & News03:53 Reader Katelyn's Experience with the VBAC Calculator07:16 TikTok: "Listen to Your Doctor!"16:01 Anonymous, Disrespectful, and Full of Disdain18:21 Showing Up on Social Media19:47 Concerns About Litigation27:21 The Bait & Switch31:31 Why "Find Another Hospital" Is So Hard34:39 Meet Barbara Stratton35:20 Birth Words Poetry Magnet Set37:04 Her Cesarean Poem40:24 Her Journey to Birth Activism45:33 Finding Post-Cesarean Support46:57 Learns About VBAC Bans48:02 Planning Her First VBAC Ban Rally55:07 Fighting the VBAC Ban55:58 First VBAC Ban Reversed!56:20 Woman Wants VBA2C, Declines Third Cesarean57:52 Maryland Attorney General: "Generally it is not legal to section a woman against her consent" 59:34 Resources for Fighting VBAC Bans01:00:43 Goal: To Reverse All VBAC Bans01:04:17 Hospitals Cannot Enforce VBAC Bans01:09:28 The Secret to Activism01:15:50 Work with Barbara 1:101:16:49 Speaking Even When Your Voice Shakes at the NIH VBAC Conference01:19:02 Changing Hospital Placenta Policy01:21:16 Examples of In-Hospital Advocacy01:22:44 Biggest Issue in Birth Activism: The Elusive First Time Mother01:24:58 Mothers: "I Wish I Had Known..."01:32:28 Most Successful VBAC Ban Reversal Strategies01:35:00 A Forced Cesarean01:44:47 The Idea of Fault01:47:21 VBAC Planning Tips01:52:00 Hospital Based Childbirth Classes01:55:14 Searching for the Perfect VBAC Plaintiff01:56:11 Denied VBAC a Week Before She Was Due01:56:44 Physician Preference Drives VBAC Ban Reversal02:00:31 Advice for Birth Professionals02:04:39 Key Differences in Birth Centers02:07:19 Advice for Parents02:09:14 Mutual Appreciation ❤️02:12:29 VBAC Bait & SwitchHave a comment or question for the podcast? Want to suggest a guest we should interview or a topic we should discuss? Go to https://vbacfacts.com/podcast to give us your feedback!Downloadable Checklist: The 5 Simple Steps to Planning a VBAC | VBAC Facts®Downloadable Report: Top 5 Uterine Rupture Myths Debunked Once and For All | VBAC Facts®The Truth About VBAC™ for Families | VBAC Facts® Course for ParentsSchedule a consulting call with Barbara...

What do you do when you are pregnant after a cesarean and the only hospital in your community has a VBAC ban? Come hear the story of Dr. Denise Jaimes-Villanueva PsyD of Santa Barbara, California as she shares everything she endured to avoid compulsory surgery. From the challenges around finding a provider in a community where the influence of the hostile VBAC climate permeated to the financial and emotional factors that influenced her decisions, she discusses the journey of processing the grief of her births, what she would do differently, and the lessons she learned along the way. Her story illustrates why the refrain, "just find a supportive provider or hospital" is often trite and why every hospital with a L&D unit in the US should support and offer VBAC, as the American College of OB/GYNs has explicitly stated since 2017. 00:42 Welcome Denise!02:03 Her First Birth14:21 Navigating VBAC Bans24:12 Hiring Midwives to Labor at Home34:58 The Toll of Hostile Climate VBAC Planning36:46 Lessons She Learned50:18 Processing the Impact of Those Births54:40 Trusting Providers is Still Hard57:45 Her Message for Parents59:54 Her Message to Clinicians01:01:28 Her Message to PolicymakersIf you have a question about a prior episode, a topic you'd like me to feature, a guest you'd like me to interview (including yourself!), or a "VBAC win" (birth stories, policy changes, advocacy/legal victories) you'd like to share, go to https://vbacfacts.com/podcast.Downloadable Checklist: The 5 Simple Steps to Planning a VBAC | VBAC Facts®Downloadable Report: Top 5 Uterine Rupture Myths Debunked Once and For All | VBAC Facts®The Truth About VBAC™ for Families | VBAC Facts® Course for ParentsE3: "The Rules About VBAC" Part 1: A Deep Dive into US VBAC Guidelines with Jen Kamel - The VBAC Facts® Podcast - Apple PodcastsE5: Autonomy, Authority, Coercion & Consent: Who Decides in Maternity Care? - The VBAC Facts® Podcast - Apple PodcastsE4: “The Rules About VBAC” Part 2: A Deep Dive into US VBAC Guidelines with Jen Kamel - The VBAC Facts® Podcast - Apple Podcasts"No one can force you to have a cesarean" is false | VBAC Facts®Calling women who plan home VBACs "stupid" misses the point | VBAC Facts®How to File a Complaint for Obstetric Violence or Mistreatment in Birth - Birth MonopolyConsulting for Parents, Professionals, Legal & Policy Teams │ VBAC Facts® Professional Speaking with Jen Kamel │ VBAC Facts®Sign up for your copy of the Top Three VBAC Myths! | VBAC Facts®VBAC Facts® Professional Membership | VBAC Facts® Continuing EducationToo Bad We Can't Just "Ban" Accreta-The Downstream Consequences of VBAC Bans - VBAC Facts® Articlea

Ever use the VBAC calculator? Then you will want to listen to physician scientist and VBAC calculator researcher Dr. Nicholas Rubashkin, MD, PhD, an Associate Professor at UC San Francisco, as he reviews the historical and cultural implications of the VBAC calculator, a tool used to predict vaginal birth after cesarean (VBAC) odds. The conversation uncovers how the calculator has propagated racist assumptions that Black and Hispanic bodies are less capable of vaginal birth, the consequences of those assumptions on maternal care, and the problematic "60% threshold." They explore how to shift the conversation from risk-based to goal-oriented, how problems remain even after race and ethnicity were removed from the tool, recent research out of Sweden, and the fundamental ethical issues at the root of the calculator. The episode also addresses the concept of "controlling risk in advance," ethical implications of using surgery as a default solution, why some midwives don't use the calculator, and provides insights into future research and practices aimed at increasing equitable access to VBAC. 02:11 His Training and Background09:25 How He Decided to Study the VBAC Calculator11:25 Is VBAC a Political Issue?13:38 New Limitations on Research Grants16:48 The Many VBAC Calculators20:37 How to Define Uterine Rupture21:45 Race as a Risk Factor23:28 The Power of Lived Experience in Research25:55 It's Not Race, It's Racism27:56 How Race & Racism Were Built Into the Calculator29:28 Race & Ethnicity Removed from the VBAC Calculator32:13 A New Form of Scientific Racism33:03 Removing Race, Problems Remain35:34 Response to VBAC Calculator Critique38:34 Reader Q: Validate Prior FTP Cesarean42:27 Swedish Study: 10cm FTP Diagnosis & Future VBAC Odds43:36 Script for Using the Calculator44:44 Reader Q: Psychosocial Elements of FTP47:07 Science Beyond VBAC Calculator Comes From Oncology!47:59 Calculator Contributes to Informed Consent?51:04 Where to Start: VBAC Calculator & Informed Consent 54:01 Controlling Risk in Advance01:01:02 The Fundamental Ethical Issue01:03:16 The 60% Threshold01:08:02 The "Necessity" of The 40/41-Week Scheduled Cesarean 01:10:28 Goal Oriented ConversationsHave a comment or question for the podcast? Want to suggest a guest we should interview or a topic we should discuss? Go to https://vbacfacts.com/podcast to give us your feedback!Downloadable Checklist: The 5 Simple Steps to Planning a VBAC | VBAC Facts®Downloadable Report: Top 5 Uterine Rupture Myths Debunked Once and For All | VBAC Facts®Contribute to the VBAC Facts® BIPOC Scholarship Fund | VBAC Facts®Vaginal Birth After Cesarean Calculator (MFMU)Episode 6 Decoding the VBAC Calculator: Science, Bias, and Decision Making | The VBAC Facts® Podcast - Apple PodcastsStudy finds that VBAC calculators underpredict VBAC odds. They are also racially biased. | VBAC Facts®Consulting for Parents, Professionals, Legal & Policy Teams │ VBAC Facts® Professional Speaking with Jen Kamel │ VBAC Facts®Sign up for your copy of...

Heard no one supports VBAC? Simply not true. Join Dr. Chris Stroud OB/GYN of Fort Wayne, Indiana has he considers his 30 year career and shares why offering VBAC is so important to him, including his reasoning for supporting community midwives who attend home and birth center VBAC. We discuss the concept of "acceptable complications," which may provide some insight as to why many OBs in the United States recommend repeat cesareans for everyone regardless of their medical history, their current clinical scenario, or VBAC candidacy. He also shares his vulnerable and authentic reflections on being sued after a uterine rupture related fetal demise and why he continues to attend VBACs. Key topics covered include his practice's secret sauce, how working with community midwives has made him a better obstetrician, what he calls the four pillars of VBAC success, and a special message for physicians who don't attend VBAC and hospital administrators who maintain VBAC bans. 00:00 Upcoming VBAC Facts® Events01:35 Join Our Email List to Learn More About VBAC02:16 How To Book Jen to Speak at Your Next Event03:01 What We Will Talk About Today08:24 When VBACs Were Required13:21 His VBAC Philosophy14:39 Why His Believes Offering VBAC is Important16:28 How He Counsels Patients on VBAC vs Repeat Cesarean19:19 The Concept of "Acceptable Complications"24:06 Avoiding VBAC Bait & Switch26:46 Does He Worry About VBAC Safety?28:27 When He Induces Planned VBACs30:06 What "Immediately Available" Means to Him31:16 Why Aren't All Hospitals Attending VBAC?33:53 On Not Giving Up35:48 Voting with Your Feet36:55 Administrative, Hospital, & Legal Challenges40:23 Don't Leave Those with Primary Cesareans in the Dust42:32 Questions for Non-VBAC Providers45:42 It's the Lawsuit47:37 His Practice's Secret Sauce50:47 On Collaborating with Community Midwives52:54 What He Has Learned From Community Midwives56:00 Longest Second Stage57:34 On Being Sued After a Uterine Rupture59:50 Processing Trauma After a Uterine Rupture & Fetal Demise01:03:43 On Advocating for His Patients01:05:47 Advice: Reversing VBAC Bans01:07:26 Four Pillars of VBAC Success01:10:16 Parents: Most Important Thing for Them to Consider01:11:11 A Message for Physicians Who Don't Attend VBAC01:12:26 Message to Hospital Administrators with VBAC BansHave a comment or question for the podcast? Want to suggest a guest we should interview or a topic we should discuss? Go to https://vbacfacts.com/podcast to give us your feedback!Music produced by (Analogue)/(prod. Analogue). Instagram: @prod.analogueEmail Dr. Chris Stroud: drstroud@myfmcc.comDownloadable Checklist: The 5 Simple Steps to Planning a VBAC | VBAC Facts®Downloadable Report: Top 5 Uterine Rupture Myths Debunked Once and For All | VBAC Facts®The Truth About VBAC™ for Families | VBAC Facts® Course for ParentsHome - International Cesarean Awareness Network - Learn more about ICAN's April 21, 2025 Q&A with Jen KamelWARM | Washington Alliance for Responsible Midwifery | Birth is the most fundamental human rights issue. Safe and successful childbirth options are the strong foundation upon which every healthy society grows. - Register for the April 24 - 26, 2025 WARM Conference in Wenatchee, Washington and attend Jen's 3 hour training,

Why does VBAC access matter and how does the concept of "acceptable risk" influence how some physicians view cesarean versus VBAC complications? Learn that and more when VBAC Facts® Founder Jen Kamel is interviewed on "All Things Women's Health" with Dr. Chris Stroud. She will share the impact of her births on her life, what it was like to experience a contraction for the first time, why it is so important for people to have access to VBAC after one cesarean, and her favorite VBAC myth. They also discuss recovery from a cesarean versus a vaginal birth, how shifts in physician employment can impact VBAC access, as well as what makes a cesarean hysterectomy different than a hysterectomy in the absence of pregnancy. Plus, Jen responds to some reader comments on episode 11 where we discussed a community's 10 year fight against a VBAC ban. This episode provides valuable insights for parents, healthcare professionals, and anyone interested in women's health and birthing options.01:26 Reader Comments: Episode 1111:07 Dr. Chris Stroud introduces Jen13:38 Jen's Story17:17 Baby is Transverse, What Now?24:12 The Time Before Social Media25:15 VBAC vs. Cesarean Postpartum26:50 Abdominal Hysterectomy vs. C-Section28:37 Why Jen Founded VBAC Facts®31:40 "Acceptable Risk"36:56 Getting into Medical Research43:43 Misquoting Research47:03 One Prior Cesarean is Not High Risk47:46 Why Does Birth Experience Matter?53:08 Transformation Through Birth54:36 Where is VBAC Headed?56:40 Shift of Physician Employment01:02:48 What is a C-Section Hysterectomy?01:05:34 Pregnant After One Cesarean? This is Your Best Shot01:10:16 Favorite VBAC Myth01:12:22 Advice for Parents, Nurses, and ProvidersHave a comment or question for the podcast? Want to suggest a guest we should interview or a topic we should discuss? Go to https://vbacfacts.com/podcast to give us your feedback!Music produced by (Analogue)/(prod. Analogue). Instagram: @prod.analogueDownloadable Checklist: The 5 Simple Steps to Planning a VBAC | VBAC Facts®E7 40+ VBAC Myths Busted! Plus Hospital VBA2C After Uterine Defect - The VBAC Facts® Podcast - Apple Podcasts"Three times the risk?:" What the large Canadian VBAC study really says | VBAC Facts®13 persistent myths about vaginal birth after cesarean | VBAC Facts®Consulting for Parents, Professionals, Legal & Policy Teams │ VBAC Facts® Professional Speaking with Jen Kamel │ VBAC Facts®International Cesarean Awareness NetworkSign up for your copy of the Top Three VBAC Myths! | VBAC Facts®Sign up for your copy of the Uterine Rupture Report! | VBAC Facts®The Truth About Vaginal Birth After Cesarean™ for Families | VBAC Facts® Educational Course for ParentsVBAC Facts® Professional Membership | VBAC Facts® Continuing EducationVaginal birth after two cesareans (VBA2C): An overview of the...

What do you do when your local hospital bans vaginal birth after cesarean (VBAC) and leads people to believe that their only option there is a repeat cesarean? What about when they start to withhold pain relief to anyone who "insists" on laboring after a cesarean? When this happened in Santa Barbara, California, local activists and mothers took action. Come learn what is possible when you know the facts, know your rights, don't comply and be persistent. It's a lesson from a small beachy town that can be applied to so many other social issues. Sit down with VBAC Facts® Founder Jen Kamel and birth activist Anastasia Stone as Anastasia shares her community's 10 year journey to reverse a VBAC ban and ensure everyone had access to respectful, evidence based care. "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." - Margaret Mead01:56 How She Got Involved with Birth Work02:50 Creating Relationships, Building Bridges06:56 "Everyone Gets an Epidural." Why?11:03 The Hospital Banned VBAC Because...11:58 Educate the Community18:02 Refusing a Cesarean at a VBAC Ban Hospital19:31 Pushback: Denying People Epidurals27:30 Most Effective Strategies31:53 Free Resources32:47 Biggest Challenges36:35 When the VBAC Ban was Reversed38:25 What Every Provider Should Do40:33 The Worst Place to Labor41:23 "Just Find Another Provider?"43:28 Research on Provider Preference45:25 "But My Doctor Won't Let Me"47:50 "Wow, Something's Got to Change"50:49 What She Wishes She Knew at the Beginning52:16 Our Kids Are Watching Us53:53 Know Your Sphere of Influence56:17 Advice for Reversing VBAC Bans57:58 What Birth Professionals Should Know About Reversing VBAC BansHave a comment or question for the podcast? Want to suggest a guest we should interview or a topic we should discuss? Go to https://vbacfacts.com/podcast to give us your feedback!Music produced by (Analogue)/(prod. Analogue). Instagram: @prod.analogueDownloadable Report: Top 5 Uterine Rupture Myths Debunked Once and For All | VBAC Facts®The Truth About VBAC™ for Families | VBAC Facts® Course for ParentsSign up for your copy of the VBAC Planning Checklist! | VBAC Facts®Consulting for Parents, Professionals, Legal & Policy Teams │ VBAC Facts® Professional Speaking with Jen Kamel │ VBAC Facts®Metz (2013). How do good candidates for trial of labor after cesarean (TOLAC) who undergo elective repeat cesarean differ from those who choose TOLAC? American Journal of Obstetrics & Gynecology - PubMedSanta Barbara Cottage Hospital Reverses Stance on VBACs, July 14, 2022 - The Santa Barbara IndependentProtest Over Cottage Hospital's VBAC Ban, March 19, 2017 - The Santa Barbara IndependentInternational Cesarean Awareness NetworkSign up for your copy of the Top Three VBAC Myths! | VBAC Facts®VBAC Facts® Professional

Less than 3% of people labor after two cesareans in the US. Laura Stimson was one of those people. After having her first cesarean for twins and an elective repeat cesarean during COVID, she really wanted to experience a vaginal birth after two cesareans (VBA2C). A chance conversation with a midwife at a dinner party opened her eyes to what was possible. She learned that hospital midwives in her area of Downriver Detroit, Michigan attended VBA2C and made her plan. Laura shares with us what she learned along the way as she navigated gestational diabetes and a suspected big baby including her top tips for parents, what she wishes she knew, and how her births transformed not only how she viewed herself and her body, but how she engages with healthcare. She says, "After 2 caesareans (which I never wanted) I was finally able to have a successful VBA2C! I would love to share my journey, ups and downs, and how I finally was listened too!" There is power in sharing our birth stories. Join us for Laura's.Want to suggest a guest we should interview, topic we should discuss, or share your birth story? You can at https://vbacfacts.com/podcast!Source for 3% statistic: Dombrowski, M., Illuzzi, J. L., Reddy, U. M., et al. (2020). Trial of labor after two prior cesarean deliveries: patient and hospital characteristics and birth outcomes. Obstetrics & Gynecology, 136(1), pp.109-117.Music produced by (Analogue)/(prod. Analogue). Instagram: @prod.analogueThe Truth About VBAC™ for Families | VBAC Facts® Course for ParentsWhat is the Evidence for Induction or C-section for a Big Baby? | Evidence Based Birth®VBAC Facts® Professional Membership | VBAC Facts® Continuing EducationDombrowski, M., Illuzzi, J. L., Reddy, U. M., et al. (2020). Trial of labor after two prior cesarean deliveries: patient and hospital characteristics and birth outcomes. Obstetrics & Gynecology, 136(1), pp.109-117.Vaginal birth after two cesareans (VBA2C): An overview of the evidence - VBAC Facts® ArticleThe Truth About VBA2C: Risk, Rates, & Outcomes - VBAC Facts® Continuing Education Training

What causes someone to distrust the medical system? What impact does that have on public health? Join Dr. Amber Vayo PhD, a maternal health and politics researcher, as she answers those questions and so much more. Dr. Vayo shares insights on the role of trust, the impact of institutional betrayal, and the significance of listening to women's experiences. The discussion highlights various facets of medical mistrust, the importance of soft skills for clinicians, and how the healthcare system can improve by better addressing grievances. Plus Jen shares a victorious hospital VBA2C story after CPD from Emilie in Alberta, Canada. Watch for Dr. Vayo's upcoming book "Birthzillas and Madwives: The Politics of Childbirth" at a store near you and listen to her podcast, Birthzillas: The Podcast.Have a comment or question for the podcast? Want to suggest a guest we should interview or a topic we should discuss? Go to https://vbacfacts.com/podcast to give us your feedback!Resources MentionedConsulting for Parents, Professionals, Legal & Policy Teams │ VBAC Facts® Professional Speaking with Jen Kamel │ VBAC Facts®The Truth About Vaginal Birth After Cesarean™ for Families | VBAC Facts® Educational Course for ParentsState Medical Boards: Last Week Tonight with John OliverHow to File a Complaint for Obstetric Violence or Mistreatment in Birth - Birth MonopolyVBAC Facts® Professional Membership | VBAC Facts® Continuing EducationMade with Descript!Music produced by (Analogue)/(prod. Analogue). Instagram: @prod.analogue

If you think VBA2C is dangerous or no one "allows" them, you would be wrong. Join VBAC Facts® Founder Jen Kamel in this discussion of the feasibility and evidence surrounding VBA2C. Drawing from real-life birth stories, Jen emphasizes the importance of informed decision-making and patient autonomy, psychological implications, and the risks associated with multiple repeat cesareans. The episode also reviews recent studies (including twins after two cesareans!), ethical considerations, and the challenges faced by those seeking VBA2C. Whether you are a parent or a birth professional, this comprehensive discussion offers valuable insights and resources to support informed and ethical health care.Have a comment or question for the podcast? Want to suggest a guest we should interview or a topic we should discuss? Go to https://vbacfacts.com/podcast to give us your feedback!Music produced by (Analogue)/(prod. Analogue). Instagram: @prod.analogue

There are too many myths about VBAC to count. Good thing we give the top 40 a quick smashing in this episode. VBAC Facts® Founder Jen Kamel highlights critical information about VBAC safety, risks, and the support provided by national health organizations. She addresses common misconceptions about uterine rupture, perinatal and maternal mortality, midwives, and the risks associated with repeat cesareans. The episode features emails from listeners sharing their experiences including a reader who had a hospital vaginal birth after two cesareans and a uterine defect discovered during her first cesarean. Jen emphasizes the importance of informed decision-making, patient autonomy, and the role of evidence-based practices in improving VBAC outcomes.Have a comment or question for the podcast? Want to suggest a guest we should interview or a topic we should discuss? Go to https://vbacfacts.com/podcast to give us your feedback!Music produced by (Analogue)/(prod. Analogue). Instagram: @prod.analogueLearn more:Professional Speaking & Continuing Education Training with Jen Kamel- VBAC Facts®The Truth About VBAC™ for Families | VBAC Facts® Course for ParentsO'Neill, S. M., Agerbo, E., Khashan, A. S., et al. (2017). Trial of labour after caesarean section and the risk of neonatal and infant death: a nationwide cohort study. BMC Pregnancy and Childbirth, 17(1).Vandenberghe, G., Bloemenkamp, K., Berlage, S., et al. (2018). The International Network of Obstetric Survey Systems study of uterine rupture: a descriptive multi-country population-based study. BJOG.Is VBAC illegal? Is homebirth illegal? - VBAC Facts® ArticleVaginal birth after two cesareans (VBA2C): An overview of the evidence - VBAC Facts® ArticleVaginal birth after three or more cesareans (VBA3C/VBAMC): An overview of the evidence - VBAC Facts® ArticleSingle vs Double Layer Suturing: Is One Method Superior? - VBAC Facts® Continuing Education TrainingThe Truth About VBA2C: Risk, Rates, & Outcomes - VBAC Facts® Continuing Education TrainingThe Limited Evidence on VBA3+C: Decision Making in the Midst of Uncertainty - VBAC Facts® Continuing Education TrainingWhat birthing families need to know about vaginal birth after a classical or T/J incision - VBAC Facts® ArticleToo Bad We Can't Just "Ban" Accreta-The Downstream Consequences of VBAC Bans - VBAC Facts® ArticleCatastrophic uterine rupture: The risk of fetal death during planned VBAC - VBAC Facts® ArticleLandon, M. (2004). Maternal and perinatal outcomes associated with a trial of labor after prior cesarean delivery. The New England Journal of Medicine, 351(25), 2581-2589.Birth intervals & uterine rupture aka how long to wait to VBAC - VBAC Facts® ArticleVBAC...

Think the VBAC calculator is rooted in solid medical evidence? This episode with VBAC Facts® Founder Jen Kamel dives into the accuracy and impact of VBAC calculators. Jen discusses a variety of factors influencing predicted VBAC odds as well as actual VBAC rates, including race, BMI, reason for prior cesarean, bias, provider preference, and VBAC bans. Key research, such as Harris 2019, Nguyen 2020, and most recently Ledbetter 2024, reveal that VBAC calculators often underpredict VBAC odds. Hear lived experiences from readers and the challenges they face with the application of these calculators. Learn more about the strengths and limitations of VBAC calculators and their impact on informed decision-making in birthing choices. 00:22 Introduction to VBAC Calculators 02:30 Study Questions VBAC Accuracy: Harris 201905:47 The Role of a Prior Failure to Progress (FTP) Cesarean07:31 ACOG's Labor Arrest/ FTP Definitions09:48 On Calibrating VBAC Calculators Before Use11:19 Impact of Race & Racism on VBAC Odds 14:59 Readers Share Their VBAC Calculator Experiences19:27 BMI, Bias, and VBAC Calculators21:20 Limitations and Misuse of VBAC Calculators 26:13 VBAC Calculator Latinx Accuracy: Nguyen 202027:36 VBAC Calculator Hispanic BMI Accuracy: Ledbetter 202433:50 BMI & the VBAC Calculator: A Reader's Story39:17 Relevant Factors the VBAC Calculator Doesn't Consider40:53 ACOG: Recruit me for the VBAC Practice Bulletin Committee42:27 Questions to Ask Yourself Before You Use the VBAC Calculator43:06 Final Thoughts and ResourcesMentioned on the showRead the companion article, see the first three VBAC calculators, and download the handout for this episode.Birth Monopoly's How to File A Complaint for Mistreatment in Maternity Care. The Maternal-Fetal Medicine Network VBAC calculator. "In an effort to reduce the number of primary cesareans, ACOG released new labor arrest definitions in 2014." American College of Obstetricians & Gynecologists and the Society for Maternal-Fetal Medicine. (2014). Safe prevention of the primary cesarean delivery. Obstetric Care Consensus No. 1. Obstetrics & Gynecology, 123, 693-711. Collins, J. W., David, R. J., Handler, A., et al. (2004). Very low birthweight in African American infants: The role of maternal exposure to interpersonal racial discrimination. American Journal of Public Health, 94(12), 2132-2138. Harris, B. S., Heine, P. H., Park, J., Faurot, K., Hopkins, M., Rivara, A., . . . Jelovsek, E. (2019). Are prediction models for vaginal birth after cesarean accurate? American Journal of Obstetrics & Gynecology, 220, 492.e1-7. Ledbetter, A., Wandtke Herrmann, T., Lupa, K., & Graupe, M. (2024). Observed Versus Predicted Vaginal Birth After Cesarean for Patients of a Community Health Center. Journal of Midwifery & Women's...

People are shocked when they learn that the American College of OB/GYN (ACOG) says that women and pregnant people have the final say in medical decision making. Jen Kamel, founder of VBAC Facts®, discusses the principles of informed decision making in the context of vaginal birth after cesarean (VBAC) versus repeat cesarean. Emphasizing the ethical obligations in healthcare, Jen explores ACOG's Committee Opinion on respecting a pregnant woman's autonomy and decision-making rights. Real-life testimonials from petite readers who had successful VBACs highlight the possibilities and challenge common misconceptions. The episode also addresses ethical dilemmas, coercion, and the importance of respectful and supportive communication between healthcare providers and birthing people, especially when recommended treatments are refused.Have a comment or question for the podcast? Want to suggest a guest we should interview or a topic we should discuss? Go to https://vbacfacts.com/podcast to give us your feedback!VBAC Facts® resourcesPetite readers share their VBAC story on Facebook and InstagramAmerican College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists. (2016). Refusal of medically recommended treatment during pregnancy. Committee Opinion No. 664. Obstetrics & Gynecology, 127, e175-82. Article: Vaginal birth after two cesareans (VBA2C): An overview of the evidenceArticle: Vaginal birth after three or more cesareans (VBA3C/VBAMC): An overview of the evidenceVBAC Facts® professional membership: where we house a library of continuing education trainings including The Truth About VBAC™ for Professionals, The Limited Evidence on VBA3+C: Decision Making in the Midst of Uncertainty, and The Truth About VBA2C: Risk, Rates, & Outcomes.Our course for people with prior cesarean(s): "The Truth About VBAC™for Families"Schedule an in-person training in your communitySchedule a consulting call with JenStudies mentioned"One study found that over half of the people who had a cesarean for FTP, failure to progress, were not six centimeters, which is one of the criteria they need to meet in order to receive that diagnosis." Zhang, J., Troendle, J., Reddy, U.,et al. (2010). Contemporary cesarean delivery practice in the United States. The American Journal of Obstetrics & Gynecology, 203(4), 326.e1-326.e10. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20708166Music produced by (Analogue)/(prod. Analogue). Instagram: @prod.analogueVBAC, VBAC Facts, Vaginal Birth After Cesarean, ACOG, Birth...

You might be surprised to read what the US national guidelines actually say about VBAC. Join Jen Kamel, founder & CEO of VBAC Facts®, as she delves deep into the American College of OB/GYN's VBAC guidelines. The episode covers a range of topics including external cephalic version, epidurals, VBAC in rural hospitals, and who makes the ultimate decision regarding mode of birth. Jen provides a detailed analysis of the guidelines and emphasizes informed decision-making, patient autonomy, and the importance of ethical practices in maternal care. She also highlights the role of continuous fetal monitoring, managing complications, and the significance of sharing accurate information among clinicians and patients.00:41 External Cephalic Version (ECV)02:05 Pain Relief and Epidural Analgesia03:29 Diagnosing Uterine Rupture06:01 Manual Uterine Exploration and Dehiscence07:59 VBAC After Uterine Rupture09:21 Counseling After Previous Cesarean12:03 VBAC in Rural Hospitals28:11 Patient Autonomy and Informed Decision Making43:45 Conclusion and Summary of RecommendationsHave a comment or question for the podcast? Want to suggest a guest we should interview or a topic we should discuss? Go to https://vbacfacts.com/podcast to give us your feedback!VBAC Facts® resourcesArticle: New study reveals surprising truths about the VBAC calculator: https://vbacfacts.com/2020/02/24/new-research-vbac-calculators/Article: Vaginal birth after three or more cesareans (VBA3C/VBAMC): An overview of the evidenceVBAC Facts® trainingsVBAC Facts® professional membership: where we house a library of continuing education trainings including The Truth About VBAC™ Fetal Monitoring, The Truth About VBAC™ for Professionals, The Limited Evidence on VBA3+C: Decision Making in the Midst of UncertaintySchedule an in-person training in your community at https://vbacfacts.com/speaking Studies mentioned"One study cited about only 4 percent of uterine ruptures are associated with an intrauterine loss of pressure:" Nahum, G. G. (2016). Uterine Rupture in Pregnancy: http://reference.medscape.com/article/275854-overview"Dr. Mary Barger's 2013 study looked at all the hospitals in California that have 24 7 anesthesia:" Barger, M. K., Dunn, T. J., Bearman, S., DeLain, M., & Gates, E. (2013). A survey of access to trial of labor in California hospitals in 2012. BMC Pregnancy and Childbirth, 13(83). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3636061/pdf/1471-2393-13-83.pdf Other resourcesAmerican College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists. (2019). ACOG Practice Bulletin No. 205. Vaginal birth after cesarean...

Heard national guidelines don't support VBAC? Well you heard wrong. Join us for a deep dive into the American College of OBGYN's VBAC guidelines. Join VBAC Facts® Founder Jen Kamel as she explains the significance of these guidelines for anyone birthing in the U.S. or working in healthcare. Jen clears up common misconceptions, highlights the difference between uterine rupture and dehiscence, and stresses the importance of informed decision-making. Tune in to learn more about VBAC's risks, benefits, and the role of different factors, such as BMI and induction, in VBAC outcomes.If you have a question or comment for the podcast, have something positive that has happened in your world relative to VBAC that you'd like us to share on the podcast, or you have a suggestion for an episode topic or a specific person you'd like us to feature on the podcast, click here and let us know!00:21 Understanding ACOG and Its Influence01:43 Decoding ACOG's VBAC Guidelines02:10 Alternative Language for TOLAC04:47 Assessing VBAC Candidacy06:35 Levels of Evidence in ACOG Guidelines09:11 Risks & Benefits of VBAC & Elective Repeat Cesarean11:48 Understanding Uterine Rupture and Uterine Dehiscence14:11 Evaluating Medical Research on VBAC25:31 VBAC Calculators and Prediction Models34:13 Who is Not a VBAC Candidate?51:35 Induction and Augmentation After CesareanVBAC Facts® resourcesArticle: How to qualify medical studies: “Three times the risk?:” What the large Canadian VBAC study really saysArticle: New study reveals surprising truths about the VBAC calculatorArticle: Vaginal birth after two cesareans (VBA2C): An overview of the evidenceArticle: Vaginal birth after three or more cesareans (VBA3C/VBAMC): An overview of the evidenceVBAC Facts® trainingsVBAC Facts® professional membership: where we house a library of continuing education trainings including The Truth About VBAC™ for Professionals, Plus Size VBAC: Odds, Risks, and Realities, The Truth About VBA2C: Risk, Rates, & Outcomes, The Limited Evidence on VBA3+C: Decision Making in the Midst of UncertaintyOther resourcesAmerican College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists. (2019). ACOG Practice Bulletin No. 205. Vaginal birth after cesarean delivery. Obstetrics & Gynecology, 133(2), e110-e127.American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists. (2016). Refusal of medically recommended treatment during pregnancy. Committee Opinion No. 664. Obstetrics & Gynecology, 127, e175-82.Studies mentioned50 percent did not meet the criteria for FTP: Zhang, 2010 BMI provider bias:

We continue "Esther's" harrowing story of avoiding a court ordered cesarean. "Esther" navigates an unassisted birth after four prior cesareans amidst intense scrutiny from social and emergency services. Follow her journey through legal battles, hiding from authorities, and ultimately obtaining a landmark ruling from the Israeli Supreme Court that upholds the right to decline a cesarean. Discover the intricate ethical and legal dilemmas surrounding birth autonomy and the resilience required to make one's own medical decisions.00:00 Welcome Back for Part 200:56 Seeking Refuge and Medical Concerns02:04 Engaging with Social Services02:42 "They Are Asking for a Psychiatric Evaluation"05:59 Legal Battle and Court Hearings13:57 Physician Testifies: "Suicide Mission"17:40 What Jen Would Tell the Court21:40 Tracking Her Through Her Phone23:56 Hiding from Authorities25:21 A Glimmer of Safety26:10 Navigating Work and Legal Challenges26:53 Courtroom Battles and Contractions28:36 Police Encounters and Relocation32:22 The Birth Amidst Chaos36:36 No Appearance, No Compensation38:39 Creating Legal Precedents and Reflections40:48 The Aftermath and Moving Forward41:47 Decision Making With Higher Clinical Risk42:54 How She Feels About the Decision43:54 Deciding to Have Unassisted Births45:59 Why Women Go "Underground" to Birth47:28 Feelings about Legal Precedent48:24 Conviction to Move Forward51:40 ConclusionThe Israeli Supreme Court Ruling, dated August 25, 2024Is VBAC illegal? Is homebirth illegal? - VBAC Facts® ArticleVaginal birth after two cesareans (VBA2C): An overview of the evidence - VBAC Facts® ArticleVaginal birth after three or more cesareans (VBA3C/VBAMC): An overview of the evidence - VBAC Facts® ArticleSingle vs Double Layer Suturing: Is One Method Superior? - VBAC Facts® Continuing Education TrainingThe Truth About VBA2C: Risk, Rates, & Outcomes - VBAC Facts® Continuing Education TrainingThe Limited Evidence on VBA3+C: Decision Making in the Midst of Uncertainty - VBAC Facts® Continuing Education TrainingMusic produced by (Analogue)/(prod. Analogue). Instagram: @prod.analogue