GOOD ON WOOD

William Stringfellow saw through the lies of empire, and his warning feels even sharper now. If you care about justice, theology, activism, or the future of Christian witness, today’s episode of Good on Wood reveals why Stringfellow’s words still cut through our moment of collapse, confusion, and false hope.Bill Wylie-Kellermann joins Jarrod McKenna and Steve Schallert to trace Stringfellow’s life, thought, and witness from Harvard Law to East Harlem, from civil rights work to Block Island, from deep friendship with Daniel Berrigan to his confrontations with the powers. Along the way, they uncover the radical coherence of a man who refused careerism, challenged racism as a principality, and believed change ultimately comes from God.You’ll discover why Stringfellow insisted that America must be read biblically, not the Bible Americanly. You’ll hear how his theology of the principalities and powers shaped everything from anti-war resistance and women’s ordination to his critique of technocracy, scientism, and the violence hidden inside institutions that claim to be neutral.Bill Wylie-Kellermann shares the personal stories that make Stringfellow unforgettable: his move from privilege to the margins, his partnership with poet Anthony Towne, his comradeship with the Berrigans, his advocacy for Black freedom and women’s leadership, and his chronic pain and disability, which deepened rather than diminished his theology. We also explore his spiritual disciplines, his practice of discernment, and why he believed the Christian task is not optimism but hope with eyes open.Stringfellow names what many of us still miss: the systems shaping our lives are not just political or economic, but spiritual. And if you want a faith that can survive empire, speak truth to power, and still trust resurrection, this is an essential insight.ABOUT BILL WYLIE-KELLERMANBill Wylie-Kellermann is a nonviolent community activist, author, teacher, and retired United Methodist pastor, most recently serving St. Peter’s Episcopal Church in Detroit.A native Detroiter with a place-based vocation, he has been a member of the Homich 9, prosecuted for blocking water shut-off trucks in the Detroit Water Struggle, and a direct action point person for the Michigan Poor Peoples campaign. In Jesus, he bets his life on gospel non-violence, good news to the poor, Word made flesh, and freedom from the power of death.Bill is a graduate of Union Theological Seminary in NYC and a longtime contributing editor for Sojourners magazine. He is author most recently of Celebrant’s Flame: Daniel Berrigan in Memory and Reflection, (Cascade, 2021).He served as series editor for the republication of William Stringfellow’s works at Wipf and Stock Publishers. He is co-founder of Word and World: A Peoples’ School, and is adjunct faculty at Ecumenical Theological Seminary in Detroit. His writing and teaching are most often framed by a theology of the powers.Bill is partner to the Rev. Denise Griebler, father to Lydia and Lucia, and grandfather to Isaac, Cedar, Ira, and Mabel.CHECK OUT BILL’S BOOKS & ARTICLESFOLLOW US* ⁠@goodonwood.podcast⁠* @ststephensuniversity⁠* ⁠@jfi_ssu⁠* ⁠@steveschallert⁠* ⁠@jarrodmckenna⁠To learn more about St Stephen’s University and all of our program offerings in Theology & Culture, Peace & Justice, Transformative Leadership and Reconciliation Studies visit us at - ssu.caThis episode was edited and produced by Steve Schallert.Episode Chapters:00:22 Introduction to William Stringfellow’s Legacy02:04 Stringfellow’s Critique of American Politics and Religion03:03 Deep Listening and Hermeneutics in Scripture04:03 His Life and Major Influences06:58 Listening as an Act of Resistance to Babel10:02 Engagement with Principalities and Powers11:50 Discernment of Spirits and the Power of Death16:00 Exorcism as a Political and Pastoral Act17:00 His Involvement in Civil Rights and Anti-War Movements19:54 Stringfellow’s View on Change and Divine Action22:01 Personal Spirituality and Disciplines24:56 Theology of Powers and the Creatureliness of the Powers29:53 His Advocacy for Women Ordination and Social Justice30:09 Stringfellow’s Engagement with Politics and Society34:56 Living with Integrity and Authenticity36:02 Health, Suffering, and Autobiographical Reflections40:07 Legacy and Contemporary Relevance40:08 The Hope and Pessimism of Stringfellow45:04 The Ongoing Relevance of Stringfellow’s Work This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit goodonwoodpodcast.substack.com/subscribe

In today’s episode of Good on Wood we are joined by the prolific historian Dr. Bain Attwood in conversation about the life and legacy of William Cooper, an Aboriginal activist, Yorta Yorta elder, and his connections to broader themes of oppression, memory, and solidarity. The discussion highlights Cooper’s story, late life activism, his identification with biblical narratives, his profound understanding of suffering and the impact of colonization on Indigenous communities. It also explores the complex role of missionaries in Aboriginal lives, the ongoing fight for rights and land, and the cultural connections that shape Indigenous identity today.Together we explore themes of emancipation, faith in leftist politics, and the political legacy of slavery as articulated by William Cooper and others. Along the way, we delve into the complex role of Christianity in Indigenous activism, examples of international solidarity, Cooper’s concept of “thinking-black,” the historical narratives that inform contemporary struggles for land and equality, and the absolute need to keep hope alive amid it all.ABOUT DR. BAIN ATTWOODBain Attwood is Emeritus Professor of History at Monash and has held fellowships at the University of Cambridge and Harvard University. His book Possession: Batman’s Treaty and the Matter of History won the 2010 Ernest Scott Prize for the most distinguished contribution to the history of Australia or New Zealand or colonial history. He is also the author of Rights for Aborigines, Telling the Truth about Aboriginal History, The Making of Native Title: Sovereignty, Property and Indigenous People, and William Cooper: An Aboriginal Life Story, and the co-editor of Telling Stories: Indigenous History and Memory in Australia and New Zealand and Protection and Empire: A Global History.Related article worth exploring:The Evolution of a Myth: How William Cooper became “the man who stood up to Hitler”by. Bain AttwoodFOLLOW US* ⁠@goodonwood.podcast⁠* @ststephensuniversity⁠* ⁠@jfi_ssu⁠* ⁠@steveschallert⁠* ⁠@jarrodmckenna⁠To learn more about St Stephen’s University and all of our program offerings in Theology & Culture, Peace & Justice, or Reconciliation Studies visit us at - ssu.caThis episode was edited and produced by Steve Schallert. Music provided by our own Steve Schallert, Yothu Yindi & The Treaty Project, Priscilla Stanley, and Buhaminak.Episode Chapters:00:00 Introduction to William Cooper’s Legacy02:55 The Suffering and Resilience of Aboriginal Peoples06:01 William Cooper: A Life in Context08:53 Colonization and Its Impact on the Yorta Yorta12:02 The Role of Missionaries in Aboriginal Lives14:56 Christianity and Indigenous Identity18:00 Emancipation and the Fight for Rights21:09 The Complexity of Missionary Influence24:00 Cultural Connections and Shared Struggles27:05 The Legacy of William Cooper and His People33:40 Emancipation and the Legacy of Slavery34:54 Political Rights and Indigenous Identity36:26 Petitioning as a Political Tool38:36 Christianity and Indigenous Agency41:28 Historical Narratives and Political Rights42:55 The Significance of 1938 in Activism46:18 Struggles for Land and Autonomy51:25 Education and Equality in Activism54:47 The Day of Mourning: A Protest Against Commemoration64:10 Historical Perspectives on Aboriginal Suffering69:16 Cultural Connections: Spirituals and Solidarity72:14 William Cooper: A Voice Against Oppression79:44 Memory and Identity: The Legacy of Cooper90:04 Contemporary Reflections on Cooper’s Impact This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit goodonwoodpodcast.substack.com/subscribe

On today’s special 20th episode of the Good on Wood Podcast we reboot an interview between Howard Thurman and Landrum Bolling from 1976 thanks to the good folk at the Howard Thurman Digital Archive. This edited and freshly remastered conversation follows Howard Thurman from his boyhood in segregated Daytona Beach to his seminary years, teaching career, and mystical theology and praxis. Thurman reflects on the spiritual power of nature, his grandmother’s influence, racial humiliation, prayer, hope, and nonviolence as a love ethic to survive a hostile world.If you haven’t heard our previous episode “Howard Thurman and the Disinherited w. Dr. Paul Harvey” hit pause and give it a listen first. Then return here to listen to Thurman in his own words.FOLLOW US* ⁠@goodonwood.podcast⁠* @ststephensuniversity⁠* ⁠@jfi_ssu⁠* ⁠@steveschallert⁠* ⁠@jarrodmckenna⁠To learn more about St Stephen’s University and all of our program offerings in Theology & Culture, Peace & Justice, or Reconciliation Studies visit us at - ssu.ca“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.”- HOWARD THURMAN This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit goodonwoodpodcast.substack.com/subscribe

Howard Thurman knew the real battle starts inside you. Before you can change the world, can you face your own fear, hypocrisy, and hunger for approval? Historian Dr. Paul Harvey joins Steve Schallert and Jarrod McKenna to trace the life, mysticism, and revolutionary influence of one of the 20th century’s most important spiritual thinkers.Thurman’s story is astonishing: born into poverty in segregated Florida, shaped by a grandmother who had been enslaved, mentored by the people and ideas that formed Black religious life, and later propelled into conversations with Quakers, Gandhi, and the architects of the American freedom movement. Harvey reveals how Thurman’s inner life was forged by hardship, why trees, storms, and the silence mattered so much to his spirituality, and how those influences became the foundation for a vision of liberation that still challenges the church today.Harvey also brings Thurman into the present moment, connecting his warnings about hatred, fear, and dehumanisation to our own age of outrage and exhaustion. This is not just a biography lesson - it is a bracing invitation to recover the contemplative depth social movements desperately need if they are going to last.Essential listening if you care about spirituality, justice, nonviolence, or the question Thurman kept asking: Who are you really?ABOUT DR. PAUL HARVEYPaul Harvey is Distinguished Professor of History and Presidential Teaching Scholar at UCCS. Harvey is the recipient of the James W. C. Pennington Award from the Heidelberg Center for American Studies at the University of Heidelberg, Germany, given to scholars who have done distinguished work on slavery, emancipation, peace, education, reform, civil rights, and religion; and is also the Co-Director of the Center for the Study of Evangelicalism at UCCS. He researches, writes, and teaches in the field of American history from the 16th century to the present. He is the author/editor of thirteen books and numerous articles.Most recently, Paul Harvey is the author of Martin Luther King: A Religious Life (Rowman & Littlefield, 2021), and Howard Thurman Howard Thurman and the Disinherited: A Religious Biography (Eerdmans Press, 2020), as well as Christianity and Race in the American South: A History(University of Chicago Press, 2016), and Bounds of Their Habitation: Religion and Race in American History (Rowman & Littlefield, 2017). Professor Harvey’s recent co-authored book The Color of Christ: The Son of God and the Saga of Race in America, was named a “Top 25 Outstanding Academic Title” by Choice magazine in 2013, an award selected from among the several thousand academic books published in the previous year.FOLLOW US* ⁠@goodonwood.podcast⁠* @ststephensuniversity⁠* ⁠@jfi_ssu⁠* ⁠@steveschallert⁠* ⁠@jarrodmckenna⁠To learn more about St Stephen’s University and all of our program offerings in Theology & Culture, Peace & Justice, or Reconciliation Studies visit us at - ssu.ca This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit goodonwoodpodcast.substack.com/subscribe

In a world beset by violence and division, the story of Peggy & Art Gish unveil a radical, incarnational faith that challenges us to embody love in the midst of chaos. Their life's work - centered in peace activism, nonviolent resistance, and deep spiritual practice - demonstrates that transformation begins within and radiates outward in the pursuit of healing justice in Iraq, Palestine, Chicago, rural Ohio and elsewhere. Today’s episode of Good on Wood explores how living out the gospel’s call to radical discipleship can change not only hearts but systems which breed violence, inspiring a boldness rooted in love and faithful risk-taking.Joined by Peggy Faw Gish and Cliff Kindy, we hear powerful stories from their five decades of activism - Art standing unarmed before the tanks in Hebron, Peggy working amidst children in war-torn Baghdad, and their collective journey through civil rights, anti-war movements, and international peacemaking. You’ll discover how their Church of the Brethren spirituality - grounded in the teachings of Jesus and lived out in community - serves as a wellspring of courage and clarity in the face of systemic evil. Their insights illuminate the spiritual disciplines that sustain them: prayer, fasting, pilgrimage, and fearless engagement with opponents, embodying a faith that refuses to remain abstract or personal but insists on active, sacrificial love.Our conversation hinged on a call for revolutionary change - deep-rooted change - which starts inside each of us. Peggy and Cliff illustrate how the Spirit’s power fuels activism that’s both passionate and strategic, living as if the Kingdom has already come and building communities that reflect that hope. Their witness urges us to visualize a future where justice flows like a mighty river, and change begins with the courage to boldly embody that love today.As Peggy reminds us, “You don’t gotta” - but you get to - partner with God for justice, love, and peace. Whether you’re inspired to take small steps or big leaps, their stories challenge us to be courageous, curious, and uncompromising in living out the call of Jesus.Peggy and Art’s lifelong commitment to peace, justice, and faith stems from their long roots in the Community Peacemaker Teams witness, the Church of the Brethren pietism, and a radical understanding of discipleship. Their witness is a testament to what it means to live faithfully in a broken world—pointing not just to hope, but to the active love that transforms all of us.ABOUT CLIFF KINDYKindy is a Midwestern farmer who eschews swords and is familiar with plowshares. An organic market farmer alongside his partner Arlene in Wabash County, Indiana, Cliff has worked for more than thirty years with Community Peacemaker Teams (CPT), on the Steering Committee, and in the conflict zones of the world. From Gaza to Iraq, Nigeria to Colombia, and back to the United States, Kindy’s witness for peace reveals a hidden truth behind the work of Community Peacemaker Team, a civilian 'nonviolent special ops, ' who for more than thirty years have been infiltrating war zones to de-escalate violence, accompany peacemakers, and serve the victims of war--all for the sake of Jesus,’ nonviolence is most effective when it intentionally retakes the initiative from the actors of violence.ABOUT PEGGY FAW GISHPeggy Faw Gish was born in northern Nigeria to American missionaries. She grew up in Chicago and has been active in peace and justice work all of her adult life. She volunteered in Iraq with Community Peacemaker Teams before, during, and after the March 2003 US invasion.Her first book, Iraq: A Journey of Hope and Peace (2004), covers the first year and a half of the Iraq War. Her second book, Walking through Fire: Iraqis’ Struggle for Justice and Reconciliation (2013), picks up the story from 2004 to 2011.Peggy is a mother, grandmother, community mediator, and member of the Church of the Brethren. She has been an organic vegetable farmer and lives on the farm near Athens, Ohio, that she established with her late husband, Arthur “Art” Gish, another veteran peace activist. She loves to walk in the woods and loves to hunt wild mushrooms, fruits, and berries.COMMUNITY PEACEMAKER TEAMSCPT places teams at the invitation of local peacemaking communities that are confronting situations of lethal conflict. These teams support and amplify the voices of local peacemakers who risk injury and death by waging nonviolent direct action to confront systems of violence and oppression.CPT understands violence to be rooted in systemic structures of oppression. We are committed to undoing oppressions, starting within our own lives and in the practices of our organization.CPT enlists spiritual communities and individuals in an organized, nonviolent alternative to war. CPT’s initial roots among Mennonites, Church of the Brethren and Quakers have spread into a broad multi-faith network that supports spiritually-centered peacemaking, creative public witness, nonviolent direct action, and protection of human rights.TO LEARN MORE VISIT - cpt.orgFOLLOW US* ⁠@goodonwood.podcast⁠* @ststephensuniversity⁠* ⁠@jfi_ssu⁠* ⁠@steveschallert⁠* ⁠@jarrodmckenna⁠To learn more about St Stephen’s University and all of our program offerings in Theology & Culture, Peace & Justice, or Reconciliation Studies visit us at - ssu.c This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit goodonwoodpodcast.substack.com/subscribe