Just a Couple of Dentists

Everyone talks about the multiple. Nobody talks about what happens after the money hits your bank account. In this episode with Deren Flesher, we break down what life actually looks like after you sell to a DSO: • Minority ownership and what that really means • 2–5 year employment agreements • Recap cycles explained • What roles and responsibilities you can expect after selling • When your practice gets too big for a private buyer • How to build a practice that can run without you If you’re thinking about selling at some point, make sure to listen! Sponsors Darkhorse Tech Your dental office is most vulnerable when you’re not there — nights, weekends, holidays. That’s when hackers strike. Darkhorse monitors your practice 24/7 — not just 9–5. Mention Just a Couple of Dentists and get your first month free. 👉 darkhorsetech.com NADA Payments We switched after almost signing with the wrong company and it saved us over $20,000 in credit card fees. Listeners get an exclusive deal: $25/month + 1.5% + $0.25 per debit transaction. No other hidden fees. If you’re still paying traditional merchant rates, you’re just lighting money on fire. 👉 nadapayments.com

There are certain posts that blow up in dental Facebook groups. Lots of likes. Lots of agreement. And a lot of people quietly thinking… ehh, not sure about that. In this episode, we talk about the stuff most dentists won’t comment publicly but definitely talk about offline. We bounce around a few topics, including: The hygiene pay debate and why it feels broken Non-competes and why people freak out about them Why so many dentists keep looking for a way “out” Why celebrating staff birthdays doesn't REALLY improve culture Thanks to our sponsors Darkhorse Tech IT and security built for dental offices. First month is free for listeners. https://darkhorsetech.com Nadapayments Payment processing that helps practices cut credit card fees. Listener offer: $25/month + 1.5% + $0.25 per debit transaction https://nadapayments.com

Merchant fees are one of the most ignored line items in a dental practice. In this episode, Eric and Alex bring on Roman and Steven from nadapayments to break down how credit card surcharging actually works, what’s legal, what’s sketchy, and how practices can eliminate most processing fees without upsetting patients or risking compliance issues. They walk through real numbers, common fears dentists have, and the exact front-desk scripting that makes this a non-issue in real life. No matter if you're doing $500k a year or $5 million, this is one of the simplest changes you can make to improve cash flow in your practice. Sponsor shoutout This episode is sponsored by nadapayments, the merchant services provider Eric and Alex actually use in their own practices. Listener offer: $25/month + 1.5% + $0.25 per debit transaction, no other fees. Learn more or request a demo: https://nadapayments.com Also sponsored by Darkhorse Tech — the dental IT team that helps protect practices from hacks, downtime, and security headaches. Listener offer: First month of service free. Learn more: https://darkhorsetech.com

Dentists get pitched a lot of “can’t-miss” investment opportunities. Real estate. Private funds. Side deals. “Exclusive” opportunities that somehow always land in your inbox. In this episode, we sit down with Jason Covert, an attorney who previously prosecuted fraud cases, to break down how bad deals actually work and what to look for before you wire money. We talk through: Why dentists are prime targets for alternative investments The biggest red flags hidden inside private placement memorandums (PPMs) Why the use of funds section really matters How salespeople (not owners) often pitch investments What questions you should always ask a sponsor When it makes sense to hire a lawyer and when it probably doesn’t How influencers and promoters end up getting sued The difference between being named in a lawsuit and actually being liable A Special Thank You to Our Sponsors Darkhorse Tech Darkhorse Tech handles your IT — the stuff that has to work every day but usually doesn’t get attention until something breaks. They help practices with: IT support Network setup Security (without scare tactics) Making sure your systems actually work the way they’re supposed to And they explain things in plain English, not IT jargon. 👉 First month of service is free 🔗 https://darkhorsetech.com NADA Payments NADA Payments helps practices pass the credit card processing fee to the patient the right way, without sketchy contracts or surprise fees. The practice pays: $25/month 1.5% + $0.25 per debit transaction No other fees That’s it. If your merchant statement looks like it was designed to confuse you, this is worth a look. 🔗 https://nadapayments.com

In this episode of Just a Couple of Dentists, we sit down with Dr. Chris Green to break down one of the biggest silent killers in dental practices right now: hygiene no-shows. A lot of offices brag about high reappointment rates but that doesn’t matter if patients don’t actually show up. Chris walks through the exact system his practice uses to consistently run a 90%+ hygiene show rate, even in a world where patients cancel last minute, ignore calls, and treat appointments like optional calendar holds. We get into: The difference between reappointment rate vs. show rate (and why most practices track the wrong thing) Why unconfirmed appointments should come off the schedule The 48-hour cancellation policy that actually works The confirmation cadence that prevents last-minute no-shows Why a simple “see you in 2 hours” text makes a real difference How assigning ONE owner to a system changes execution What to do when patients cancel anyway and how to try to save the appointment How to fill hygiene holes when cancellations happen A Special Thanks to Our Sponsors Darkhorse Tech If your IT only gets attention when something breaks, that’s a problem. Darkhorse actually owns your tech — cybersecurity, backups, compliance, and support — so it doesn’t fall through the cracks. 👉 First month of service is free for our listeners. 🔗 https://darkhorsetech.com NADA Payments Credit card fees are one of the quietest leaks in a dental practice. NADA flips the model so patients cover the credit card fee instead of the practice — without sketchy contracts or junk fees. Our listener offer: $25/month 1.5% + $0.25 on debit only No other fees 🔗 https://nadapayments.com

What actually happens when dentists get divorced? We brought on Sarah Engelbert, a family law attorney in California, to walk through what divorce looks like when you’re a dentist — especially when there’s a practice, real income, and real exposure involved. We talk about things most dentists don’t think about until it’s too late: How divorce actually works in community property states like California What’s considered separate vs shared — and how people accidentally blur that line What happens to a dental practice in a divorce Why courts don’t care about gender, only income When emotions help (rarely) and when they hurt Why most dentist divorces end in settlement after a lot of money is already gone What movies like Marriage Story get right — and very wrong So if you're a dentist looking to get divorced 😂, make sure to check out this episode! A Special Thanks to Our Sponsors! Nadapayments If you’re still paying standard credit card fees, this is worth a look. With Nadapayments, your practice pays $25/month and 1.5% + $0.25 per debit transaction — no other fees. That’s it. Check them out at nadapayments.com Darkhorse Tech Dental IT without the nonsense. They handle your systems, security, and support so tech doesn’t become another problem to manage. First month of service is free. Darkhorsetech.com

About 32% of phone calls go unanswered in the average dental office. After hours? It’s basically zero. On this episode, we talk through why the front desk model most offices still use just can’t keep up anymore, what COVID permanently changed, and why missing calls isn’t about a lack of effort...it’s about the system. We’re joined by Cory Pinegar, whose company Reach hires and trains virtual assistants for dental offices, and Deren Flesher, founder of Airo Dental, an AI receptionist platform. Together, we debate what still needs a human, what doesn’t, and how practices are combining VAs and AI to realistically get to a 100% call answer rate. A Big Thank You to our Sponsors! Darkhorse Tech — The Dental IT company we've used in our practices for years and trust. Listeners get their first month free with Darkhorse https://darkhorsetech.com Nadapayments — simple, transparent payment processing. They've saved us over $20,000 in the first year. Listeners get to start at $25/month + 1.5% + $0.25 per debit transaction. No other fees. https://nadapayments.com

How buyers value a dental practice is very different from how most owners think. In this episode, Eric and Alex are joined by John Wloderek, the dental broker who sold their practices, to explain how buyers actually evaluate deals. They break down which numbers matter, which upgrades don’t move the needle, and why maintaining predictability and clean financials often matters more than last-minute improvements. The conversation covers staffing, supplies, labs, expansions, marketing, rent, collections, and timing — along with how buyer expectations have changed since 2021–2022. John also shares what the current market looks like and why many sellers are waiting for what could be a busier 2026. This episode is about understanding the buyer’s mindset before you spend money you won’t get back. Quick thanks to the sponsors that support the show: Sponsors: Darkhorse Tech — proactive dental IT support. First month is free for listeners. https://darkhorsetech.com Nadapayments — straightforward pricing that helps reduce credit card processing costs. $25/month + 1.5% + $0.25 per debit transaction https://nadapayments.com

Tracking numbers doesn’t grow a dental practice. Tracking the right numbers does. In this episode of Just a Couple of Dentists, Eric and Alex sit down with Ross Maddox and Deren Flesher — both owners of $2M+ practices — to break down which KPIs are actually worth paying attention to… and which ones are just consultant noise. They dig into: Lead vs lag metrics (and why most dentists obsess over the wrong ones) Google reviews: when quantity stops mattering and what actually drives patients Case acceptance % vs total treatment dollars accepted New patients vs attrition (aka “the back door problem”) Why “active patients” is often a fake number Hygiene reappointment rate — and why it looks good on paper but still fails in real life How to talk KPIs with your team without killing morale 🔥 Sponsors Darkhorse Tech Ever feel like your IT provider only shows up after something breaks? Darkhorse Tech takes a proactive approach to dental IT — fixing issues before they become problems and keeping your systems fast, secure, and headache-free. 👉 First month of service is FREE for listeners 🌐 https://darkhorsetech.com NADA Payments Dentists lose thousands every year to processing fees they never look at. NADA Payments simplifies merchant services with transparent pricing and no junk fees. Exclusive JACD offer: • $25/month • 1.5% + $0.25 per debit transaction • No hidden fees 🌐 https://nadapayments.com

Selling to a DSO is complicated. Most dentists already know that. What’s harder to find is a straight explanation of how the process actually plays out. In this episode, we sit down with Jon Eskow, a dental attorney who works with both DSOs and dentists, to walk through what really happens when a practice goes to market — from the first conversations, to the LOI, to diligence, to closing, and what comes after. We talk about where leverage actually exists, why the LOI matters more than most people think, and why the word “partner” often means something very different once the deal is done. If a DSO is even a remote possibility for you at some point, this episode will give you a clearer framework for thinking about it. — Quick shoutout to the sponsors who help make the show possible. First, NADA Payments. They’re built specifically for dental practices and focus on keeping payment processing simple and transparent. No junk fees, no games. JACD listeners get special pricing as low as $25/month, 1.5% + $0.25 per debit transaction, and that’s it. You can find them at nadapayments.com. And Darkhorse Tech. If your practice IT only works when everything’s calm, it’s probably not set up right. Darkhorse handles dental IT quietly and proactively, so problems don’t turn into fires. They’re offering your first month free. You can check them out at darkhorsetech.com. Thanks to both sponsors for supporting the show.

Everyone online talks about FFS vs PPO like you have to “pick a side.” But the reality is way more nuanced and way more dependent on who you are, where you practice, and what you want your career to look like. In this episode, we brought together: • Dr. Erik Zundo — 12 years fee-for-service in a college town • Dr. Deren Flesher — PPO-heavy, multi-doctor office This episode breaks down how to actually win in either model and what most dentists misunderstand about both. Inside the episode: • Why FFS works in some markets and fails in others • The real difference between FFS and “out of network” • Why PPO models scale faster (but turn the dentist into the replaceable part) • Why FFS practices are built on relationships, not volume • The Amazon-Prime expectations patients now bring to dentistry • Why the “perfect” associate is usually gone in a year • How gender, lifestyle, and generational shifts are reshaping the profession • How to choose the model that matches who you are Make sure to follow Just a Couple of Dentists for more conversations This episode is supported by partners we actually use and trust Darkhorse Tech The team that keeps hundreds of dental practices from burning to the ground (digitally, at least). If your IT causes more anxiety than your production report, get Darkhorse. Your first month is free if you mention the podcast when signing up. 👉 darkhorsetech.com Nadapayments Credit card fees are the silent tax on dentistry. Nadapayments helps offices keep that money instead of handing it to Visa. Simple. Compliant. Zero drama. 👉 nadapayments.com

Most dentists either avoid meetings or run them with no real purpose. We’ve been guilty of both. In this episode, Dr. Chris Green breaks down the exact meeting structure he used to grow a $5.8M practice without drowning in chaos or doing everything himself. We get into: • The meeting cadence that actually works • How to develop real team leads so you stop carrying the whole load • What should happen in a meeting… and what should never happen • The difference between strategy vs. operations • How to keep meetings tight, useful, and drama-free • Why meetings can increase profitability when done right If your meetings feel pointless or you’ve avoided them altogether...this episode will completely reframe how you run your practice.

Most dentists lump every bad day, every rough month, and every “I can’t do this anymore” moment into one word: burnout. But what if it’s not burnout? What if you just… don’t like clinical dentistry? In this episode, we sit down with Dr. Laura Brenner, founder of the Dentist Side Gigs community and Lolabees, to unpack the real difference between being truly burned out and being completely misaligned with clinical dentistry.  We get into: Why so many dentists feel trapped by the identity of being “a dentist” How to tell if you’re burned out vs. simply done with the four walls The personality patterns Laura sees in dentists who struggle the most Why dentistry attracts people-pleasers (and why that backfires) The emotional weight of irreversible procedures Why vacations fix burnout but don’t fix misalignment Alex and I love forcing Just a Couple of Dentists down your throat every week. So do us a favor—don’t just accept it… tell your friends we’ve got plenty more where that came from.

This week we check back in with Dr. Cory Ball — you might remember him as the guy who bought the practice that should’ve come with a disclaimer. Ten months later, he’s cleaned up a lot of the mess… but now he’s dealing with the thing that’s driving him the craziest right now: No-shows. Constantly. We get into what he’s trying, what’s actually helped, and the stuff that sounds good on paper but falls apart in real life...especially when half your new patients are Medicaid and you can’t charge a no-show fee even if you wanted to. We also talk about: The patient who left Cory a 1-star review… and left a strip club a 5-star review Where the line is between being flexible and getting walked on How he decides when it’s time to fire a patient Why scheduling feels like the thing that secretly runs your entire practice What his practice looks like 10 months in...the good and the bad

You’ve heard it a thousand times: “Build passive income so you can be free.” But what if that whole idea is a myth? After selling our dental practices, we chased the same dream: passive income, early retirement, financial freedom. Spoiler alert...it didn’t exactly work that way. In this episode, we sit down with Josh Cochran to unpack what real passive income actually looks like, why most of what’s pitched to dentists isn’t passive at all, and how to set honest expectations when it comes to real estate, investing, and “freedom money.” PS – Alex and I love making Just a Couple of Dentists for you. If you’re enjoying the podcast, share it with a friend. It would mean the world to us.

Ever wonder what it actually takes to open six dental offices in six months? Dr. Andrew Vallo didn’t just wonder...he did it. And in this episode, he breaks down exactly how it all went down. We talk with Andrew and Matt Brown (from Energize Marketing) about: How he used second-gen spaces to move fast and stay lean Cutting build-out costs from $600K to $150K Building a growth model around associates and how he retains them Why mindset and leadership matter way more than most people think PS – Alex and I love making Just a Couple of Dentists for you. If you’re enjoying the podcast, share it with a friend. It would mean the world to us.

Zach Shelley and Kirk Teachout are two office managers running multi-million dollar practices who actually have their systems dialed in. In this episode, we get into what those systems look like day to day: how they hire, how they hold people accountable, and how they keep the culture steady when things get messy. We also talk about why firing faster usually fixes more than it breaks, how they structure meetings so they don’t drag, and what they’ve learned about leading teams that don’t constantly need babysitting. It’s the kind of stuff most dentists think they have figured out… until they don’t. PS – Alex and I love making Just a Couple of Dentists for you. If you’re enjoying the podcast, share it with a friend. It’d mean the world to us.  

Paul Goodman didn’t set out to build the most well-known group in dentistry. He just liked nachos and connecting with fellow dentists. Fast forward 8 years....with 67,000+ members, Dental Nachos is part Facebook group, part movement, and part community dentists didn’t know they needed. In this episode, we get into: Who actually came up with the name "Dental Nachos" The origin story behind BAD, MAD, and SAD What it’s like running a Facebook group with more people than most towns Why acronyms like SBITDA and terms like “dentisting” actually stick Crying Inside: the KPI no one tracks but everyone feels The difference between owning a dental practice vs. a dental community (and which one’s more stressful) We also talk about what happens when dentists post photos of ACTUAL nachos, argue in the comments, and lose their minds over free CE.

We brought on our dental school friend Dr. Mike Dyriw, who somehow went from living in a van during orientation week to becoming a board-certified endodontist in Nashville. In this episode, we cover: Mike’s “Wax Rim Scandal” that almost got him in trouble in dental school 🦷 Why endodontists roll their eyes at “Please remove decay and assess restorability” referrals Whether they actually want you to prep the tooth first or not The truth about build-ups, temporaries, and CBCT add-ons How boring endo is (for assistants) and how Mike hires for that The weird billing codes specialists use (and how insurance ruins them all) Netflix’s “Root Cause” documentary and if patients actually believed it And if most endodontists are actually board certified 🎧 Listen wherever you get your podcasts, or watch the full video on YouTube.

How does a dentist running a $20M business plan his year for success? We brought back Josh Cochran to walk us through the annual planning system he calls the #1 most impactful habit of his entire career—the same process he uses every year to lead a $20M dental business and real estate company with clarity and intention. Inspired by Bill Gates' “Think Week,” this 8-week framework helps him reflect, get focused, and set up the year to win. 👇 In this episode: 00:00 Intro – why yearly planning fails 02:38 The inspiration: Bill Gates' Think Week 05:35 Josh’s background: 7 practices, 160 employees 07:10 Why this takes 8 weeks (not 1 lunch meeting) 08:02 The power of “Why” and accountability partners 16:13 How to journal your time and rate every task 19:29 The passion/strength matrix 21:09 Eliminate, Automate, Delegate: what stays, what goes 21:42 Why visual maps help you say no with confidence 31:21 The 12 Freedoms model 34:28 Building your “Ideal Week” 36:07 Josh’s 8-week cohort info Josh's 8 week EPIC course starts on October 15th. Click here to sign up! https://drjoshcochran.com/mastermind/