tyger

recorded on 3/14/25 with Sean Vangordon and KNZ

i talk with my maker 27 years later

We talk about why selling online is a nightmare, the existential crisis of pricing your own work, and whether or not tagging clothes with painter’s tape is genius or trash. Timestamps:  0:00 – Sydney Tall: Confirmed tall, also makes clothes 2:15 – The Keith Haring exhibit and creative inspiration 5:42 – Block printing vs. screen printing: the pros, cons, and suffering 9:18 – Puff ink disasters and why I judge people who wear Plastisol 13:55 – Polyester should be illegal (but seriously) 18:07 – Hand-carving blocks until your hands go numb 21:45 – The struggle of making screens that don’t suck 25:22 – Bleach is my god now (and how to not disintegrate your clothes) 31:40 – Selling clothes: Online vs. in person and why Depop messages are a headache 36:15 – The emotional rollercoaster of selling pieces you actually like 41:03 – Thrift store gems, vintage finds, and people who staple price tags to fabric (why?) 46:55 – Sydney’s brand “Yikes” and the eternal struggle of naming things 51:28 – The problem with logos and why I don’t want branding on my clothes 57:02 – The great painter’s tape debate: DIY genius or just lazy? 1:02:45 – The art of a good photoshoot (and why I hate studios) 1:08:30 – Thrifting, upcycling, and the insane world of high-end vintage 1:13:10 – Final thoughts, creative struggles, and where to find Sydney’s work

In this episode, we sit down with a University of Oregon professor specializing in entrepreneurship and tech innovation.  Alex Murray is an Assistant Professor of Management at the University of Oregon’s Lundquist College of Business, specializing in how entrepreneurs pull resources together and how emerging tech—like crowdfunding, blockchain, and DAOs—is changing the game.  He’s been published in top academic journals, sits on editorial boards for heavy-hitter publications like the Academy of Management Review, and was a Guest Editor for a special issue on AI in management. Before landing at UO, he was a Senior Researcher at ETH Zurich and earned his PhD from the University of Washington.  We explore the impact of AI on business and society, the challenges of revitalizing unbanked communities, and the evolving landscape of digital marketing. The conversation takes a deep dive into creativity, commerce, and technology, featuring personal stories of entrepreneurial struggles, investment strategies, and the changing dynamics of content creation in a saturated digital world. Timestamps & Key Moments 🎙 0:00 - 6:00 | “How do you introduce yourself?”  • Kicking off the convo with AI, tech, and business  • Guest intro: UO professor researching entrepreneurship and innovation  • The challenge of explaining what you do in one sentence 💰 6:00 - 12:00 | “Would you work for a big company?”  • Why some people thrive in startups but not in corporate life  • The guest’s two-month stint at a massive accounting firm before quitting  • Moving to Nairobi, Kenya, and diving into entrepreneurship 📉 12:00 - 18:00 | “We just noticed these towns were completely unbanked.”  • How entire communities in the Southeast lost access to banking  • Microfinance for small businesses like bakeries and barbershops  • The real challenge of getting people to invest in their own communities 💡 18:00 - 24:00 | “The hardest it’s been in a lot of ways.”  • Why it feels like everything is harder right now  • The long game of rebuilding small economies  • How funding struggles post-2008 mirror today’s economic chaos 💰 24:00 - 30:00 | “So I have like to figure it out.”  • Personal investment, credit risk, and over-leveraging for business  • The psychology of why selling is harder than making  • Trying to get out of the loop of learning and actually start moving product 📈 30:00 - 36:00 | “The exodus from LA killed the film community.”  • The decline of full-time media gigs  • Why AI and market oversaturation are killing creative work opportunities  • How we went from getting steady contracts to fighting for scraps 📉 36:00 - 42:00 | “There’s no video arbitrage anymore.”  • The death of organic video growth and the TikTok gold rush  • Why viral content doesn’t hit the same anymore  • Fighting against content fatigue in a world where everyone’s seen it all 🛠 42:00 - 48:00 | “They kept beating me in the head with ‘Can you scale it?’”  • The reality of handmade clothing and why scaling is impossible  • Balancing artistic integrity with actual sales  • The tradeoff between quality and production speed 👕 48:00 - 54:00 | “I’m the most foremost bleach researcher to have ever existed.”  • Getting obsessed with process: R&D into custom clothing design  • The differences in fabric quality and why most brands cut corners  • Why I started investing in high-quality blanks instead of garbage Gildans 🚀 54:00 - End | “I fall in love with every single one.”  • The emotional attachment to creative work and why it’s hard to sell  • The challenge of pricing unique pieces  • Final thoughts on business, AI, and taking the next step Description & timestamps were created using ai to pull data from a transcription of the episode + information from his UO website: https://business.uoregon.edu/directory/faculty_staff/all/amm16#publications    Audio & Video production by Tyger Gruber prompt engineering by Tyger

Bang bang. Oh, I think the back's a lot cooler in the front and the front's pretty cool. I like the front more I'm not even joking. She's just Contradict Well, you know, I see the world very differently because I'm an impressive thinker you are like I like this arm That's me. I don't think I can possibly rank these cups in any sort of universal way though. No, no I think based on the garment that makes sense the garmento then we're if it's like a really high quality one But it has a little hole but I'm gonna fix it with I'm gonna sew it and then better make it double It's what do they call it distressed this is a distressed garment hand-stitched hand-stitched Let's see, what's it called when it's from like a did you ever make a Build-A-Bear? Yeah, you know how you like get to put a little heart in them. Oh, yeah, that's kind of like, um if you were to If you were to stitch one of them you put like a little something in there Imagine if you had your hand in your pocket and you could feel like a little heart Hands down the worst one of these pants that actually made oh my god. I love those. I'm just kidding. Yeah, these are mid Yeah, let's not look like someone had a little period mistake Poppin they turned out sick. Yeah, that's turned out great. Did you is this the same one that you were wearing the Pop one or we oh, no, we're getting to a nevermind. Nevermind. Look at this. I answered my own question Like so these those are cool. These three pants. These two pants are all those. Those are all really good So like two out of three. Yeah, really. I mean and Someone will love the third look at that for like like I kind of crushed most let me see that one I Ain't nothing special Yeah, but like it's cute. It's fun. It's funny. I was actually wearing I'm like I feel like if it had like the spongebob flowers on it, it'd really bring it all together. Yeah, and yeah, it's I'm kind of using Just whatever whatever called stamps stamps. No, but uh Shroom prints the other one iron on patches. Oh as a way of Just covering that and also being like special. Yeah special like you Just you know, it's average but someone put a bow on it It's never fun when people like we're both we're both special. Yeah So it was Kenzie and are breaking our boundaries I'm just developing a method of like okay. How are you talking to show with your partner where it's like We need to develop the fully built characters of like, okay Yeah, we have a few ideas ideas cooking. Yeah, you take you take the lead because I'm like physically. I'm I'm popping it I'm giving it. Yeah, you are popping it. I'm I'm eating candy. Um Well, there's there's talks of maybe a documentary there's talks of maybe some Sketches skits. I don't know which comedy comedy. This comedy both the shorts turned out horribly Like not even really worth showing. I mean show Pop it and this third pair of shorts off it for me BAM BAM BAM I call it that side that side that side. Yeah, the funny if this is okay. I just didn't really have any blue shorts Me up. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and then I just blew you I don't really mind those Yeah, they're just mid they just need like I mean they're they're like basic bitch. Yeah, but like then they can let the top shine, you know That's a good point. I know like having the bomb. Oh, look at the back though. I like that that corner Yeah, this kind of matches a lot of the ones I was making later, which guys does either reinforce that like the temperature has a roll Or oh, so yeah, this beauty's nice this beauty is a beauty Yeah, so this is the vision pants No sneak peeks at what's next That's cool. Mm-hmm. That's cool over there. These pants rock. Yeah, we did a great job Whispers yeah bulbs and whispers. I know like a Framing or like a Like a way of talking like that almost looks 3d in a way. Mm-hmm coming over the way of like describing different places Kind of like clouds. Yeah, they have like six straddle cumulus. No, yeah Because like this one has a whole system has similar bulbs. Mm-hmm Is this just kind of the same as this just bulbs and splashes? No Yes, this has so much more personality. This looks so good on Though like that's where these pants like they look really cool as is. Yeah, but they look exquisite on Exquisite I can't wear cheap pants through the whole show. Mm-hmm Tiger doesn't like to be like, oh I'm getting a show from here Everyone can totally see him now. Oh, I like it with this shirt. Yes. Yeah Yeah, what can I say? Slay? I'm an intense. What else could you say gang gang? I mean gang gang Those ones looks really cool on as well. Yes, these ones will let the the tops pop top pop I mean, yeah, cuz a lot of I mean this top pops top pop Definitely. Yeah. No, it does and like that's what you want from your top. Yeah, it's to pop. Yeah, really anything you want it to pop But you don't want top and top and bottom can pop like this is a top that pops. It is a top that pops That's a cool top. The whole thing is like this is just a statement piece of this anyone looks so good They look so good on the bleach. Yeah, I like sometimes that they can't really see him. Mm-hmm There's a subtle like see ya. I can't even see ya Yeah, but then it's like if you got retroflectively splash Did you catch that you catch that leak leak leak reference? So, yeah The inside this has like some right here Mm-hmm. And so if I press right there, this doesn't have like it's like it seems like this would have been thin enough that My guess would be that the front and back would have been like much closer match. It's like that's really cool The specific thing that you just showed me Because it looked like something Nope, it's not what I thought. I thought it looked like maybe like a skeleton dancing, but it did not Oh nice back Cohesive, yeah, very cool. Very nebulous. The whole thing is I'm gonna register like when I was making this because you're filming We're talking. I have no idea how I tie this together Yeah, I'm just actually kind of standing In memoriam to story. Oh, I guess that means he's dead. That's not what I meant Thank you very much. I made the punch of myself didn't God, I mean, it's sick. I know it's really hard because I did I did get a lot of these easy gap ones to sell But now I'm like, whoa now that I got official easy Easy gap ones because I'm like a lot of minor just samples Scamples, so it's fun to have a couple there. I like the way they do this if you feel it It doesn't feel you felt it. No, but I can see oh, yeah. Yeah, it's like that's what it's that's what it should be That's what you need. I Need a easy a easy quality tag. Yeah. Yeah I believe in you. I think you can do it. I think a screen printing is the way. Yeah, I do too My black velour. I did put double X on triple X off God like that is just really divine divine. Yeah, I like that. I've got some really good phrasing for D Vine So if there's one This one's okay. I think it's kind of neat and special Yeah, nothing really special, but they're pretty cool here, but that's pretty cool. Like it looks almost like a solar flare Yes Interesting one right here. That one's kind of neat Yeah, and say I'm like if I didn't have any of these beaches and I just saw this I'd be that'd be I'd be so Stoked isn't it if this is like how one of my places turned out. I'd be like, holy shit. I'm doing this full-time I'm gonna be a millionaire. Oh my god. I'm gonna be a thousand or Yeah No, um, I mean this is this is kind of like the they play bagpipes like this is like The end of a bleach session for me. Oh like a funeral. Yeah. Yeah kind of it's more of like A celebration. It's like more of a new chapter really. Yeah selling Okay, got a little cocky and thought you could see how you could scale. Can you sell I don't want to sell I don't want to scale either though. You got to go out and work. I'm curious. So this is a really I Like this a lot more than the ones that were like I removed all of the red and is all pink. Really? Yeah, but this is just you know, it's a little underwhelming But like one or two screen prints. Oh, yeah, I know divine But I kind of like it kind of being simple. Mm-hmm. Jimple. I think I think one or two screen prints It's hard to beat that I mean like but like how much so how much more would it could it probably go for with a screen print? I don't know. This is about money for you. Yeah, it's what it's ever been about man I'm just trying to find the quickest way to make a buck. Totally. That's apparent The quicker I can get there Regardless of who I fucking hurt That's nice I Like this line, yeah, I've started just like folding clothes like like this Like I make these like folds this this sleeve. This is money. I Love the dark I like this one more. That's wild. Oh my god. I think I could do poles on these I think I'm curious house completely split. You should do poles. I mean that would be good. Yeah I was like, which ones you like more watch it be like Completely split completely split. Okay, just to get this side. You're trying to split the vote. I am Trying to do some splits and vote I'd love to see you do the splits I think you could you know Dexterity, you really put your mind to it And you're ass into it My mind it's about like my hamstrings are tight. No, it's your mind. It's your mind That's me. It's literally just your mind. You're gonna wrap your head around your feet to walk on the call like Well, I mean like, you know, oh like over time. Yeah, okay, obviously. Yeah, I'm not like you're down in the juice No, no that's my legs No, that's definitely in your legs. Would you describe this? This is basic basic trash. I mean trash it yeah Straight garb like some poor sucker will get it. Okay, I kind of like that looks like a little heart though Cute I do I do like hearts and that's kind of neat. I like the lines Mm-hmm. I started going way more line centric Yeah, like those like those really kind of solid lines like Cunning and create perfect like like symmetry which is like

Transcript: So, honestly what I'm thinking, I'm in a really unique situation and nobody is often open when they are in this situation.   Kenzie and I, we made some money with our business.   I successfully put it into some tech stocks, made some money with it and then instead of putting it back in the US dollar or keeping it in stocks when it just seemed, it was in July of this year.   We were down in California filming and I'm like, this seems unsustainable.   I'm almost parking my assets, my capital into clothing which is harder to liquidate but I feel like I have a higher impact on it rather than like, I don't have an impact on Apple stock worth.   But for the first time in my life, I'm slightly over leveraged.   I mean, I've had student loans my whole life so I've been in debt my entire adult life which is a fascinating thought, isn't it?   Well, it depends.   For some people, that's normal.   For others, it's not.   That's what I'm learning.   I'm just trying to be open with it with people because I've always, aside from student loans which are on pause and forbearance and whatnot, I've always had money but now I'm slightly in debt and it's a situation that most people don't speak openly about which it doesn't seem like it really benefits many people.   So I'm just curious like throughout your life, have you ever leveraged yourself or when you've been like, I mean, you talked with, my understanding of what you do is you talk with business owners kind of frequently.   You may have experienced people in that position a lot.   I'm curious your thoughts on leverage, essentially.   Yeah.   Well, in general, I mean, it's clear from the work that I've done and the life I've lived that there's different levels of leverage, if you want to call it that, that people are willing to extend and their comfort is very stew.   So some people don't mind going to the ultimate and spending whatever it is that they want to do thinking that that's going to be important to them and other people aren't willing to take that kind of a risk.   So they withhold that and on the other end of the spectrum, they're actually looking at a situation where you have not much, but you don't want to spend it with the idea that you'll pay for it as it goes as opposed to using credit, for example, and that would be what I've experienced anyway with people.   Move that just a little closer.   So you said if you'd use the term leverage, would you use credit or debt or I'm curious?   Yeah, I'm more comfortable with that.   I understand leverage is just another word that describes the circumstance and it may be more favorable for some people to use the word leverage.   Well, a lot of people buy a house and they're like, cool, I own a house, but I'm like, no, you took on a $300,000 debt.   They're heavily leveraged in what's it called, the housing market, not retail, it's real estate.   Oh, real estate market.   They're just heavily leveraged with all their capital in real estate.   Okay.   And that's true.   But it's helping them achieve what they want out of life, that they want to have a house that they can call their own, even though technically it belongs to whoever holds the paper on the house until that loan is paid off.   Yeah.   Yeah.   In your experience, do you think it's better to go, like my understanding is of what you said, correct me if I'm wrong, is when you say it goes slower, you just mean bootstrapping, which and like I'm someone, you can't offend my feelings.   I'm not hurt.   I'm speaking openly because I just want more people to talk openly about finances so it's less of a taboo.   Okay, again, my personal values are to pay as you go.   And so I'm most comfortable with that.   But I also felt that at a certain point in my life, I did want to have a home and so I did borrow money to do it.   And that's probably the only time I've really borrowed money is to buy a home.   And then pay it off as fast as I can.   That's really how I looked at it.   I just don't like to be in debt.   I don't feel like I want to owe people or anyone something.   I'd rather just say, I can't have this right now and that's just the way it is.   That's how I've been my entire life.   But I think maybe having student loans, so a negative net worth my whole life almost numbed me out to it or something, but at a certain point is just an opportunity presented itself where the financials on purchasing these and then really the reason why I haven't sold them out so I'm just preparing them is once I sell them, I can't use them for my deal goal, which is B, I want to show a manufacturer that actually has the scale and a design house.   Hey, here's a way to add a full design to close.   It's cheaper than tie-dyeing.   It's quicker, less like labor man hours.   It has a higher fidelity design because all of these clothes in here, the cotton's grown in the U.S. and it's sewn in the U.S. and I really want to hopefully reach out, connect with and work with them almost as an exit of sorts.   But as the fallback, I can sell it, which is very fortunate.   I'm very fortunate.   But it's weird having my money frozen in a very non-liquid asset.   Right and of course because the market changes, you're hoping that it changes to your favor as opposed to going the other way because it's just like the stock market goes up and down and so our changes is however you want to call it.   No, so I'd really agree except for there's nothing like what I've made.   So I'm on the forefront of bleach, like bleaching clothes in an interesting way where everyone who see like on the internet and so I've given some to friends who come on the show and people and they always just say like, hey, a friend wants to buy it.   They don't know how much like it's worth because something like what it's worth is up to marketing or like essentially like Gucci, Balenciaga, like really fancy ones like not that I would want to.   But they charge a really high premium even though the product isn't as high of quality.   So the market is just, the market's fugazi in a way.   Well the market is what it is and it changes.   That's all.   And sometimes you ride the wave and it's a good market and sometimes you fall off the board and it's, you're in trouble.   So what is that?   What could you play out that scenario for like if you'd help me?   Because essentially I'm in a unique, like my entire life I've been like I don't want to be in debt beyond student loans.   So this is a new thing.   Like literally even up till this most recent month I've paid off all my credit cards in full but I'm looking at the next month I'm like, okay, my credit's going to have a slight amount, like I mean just a couple hundred dollars on it but I can see because we do have a video client, we have a part-time like video client but I definitely did just take on a calculated risk.   I figure rather than being afraid of debt my whole life I want to confront it at a small manageable scale early just to see what because I keep thinking every big company had to leverage or had to take on debt in order to scale.   So I'm just curious, yeah, what are the scenarios?   Well I'd like to go back to your opening statement where you said you took on a lot of student debt with your ability to go to school and today that's vastly different than it was in my day because the amount of debt I took on was almost none and I was able to work and pay it off very quickly because of that.   Student debt today is at a far higher level and it's much more onerous because of that and the reason why I'm going back to that in your situation is because that's where it all began.   It's not like all of a sudden you're in debt, it's that you created that debt for a good reason in order to get an education but the way we operate today is different than 40-50 years ago and so you can't compare the two, that's all I want to say about that.   Yeah, but I will say looking forward to where you are now and where you're trying to avoid being caught up in a debt ridden situation, that's the part that I think you are most concerned about and rightly so.   I don't know that there's an easy answer to that other than to say there's two ways you position yourself financially.   One is you create more income, however that is, or you don't spend as much and so those are the only two methods that help you reduce it and of course it goes faster if you get a combination, if you reduce expense but also increase income.   So the only thing I'll say is everyone's different, every situation is different and you sort of have to look at your entire life and see what contributes to your decisions that cause you to spend money.   What are the values that you're kind of playing towards?   Well that comes from, yeah, your value system initially but you may have a certain set of values that are compromised by your circumstances and you know, we all have things that come up in life you don't plan on, I mean we all know people that have gotten very ill and they weren't expecting it and all of a sudden they have this great debt because they have to take care of themselves in order to survive.   And so I would just say that's a prime example of someone today who tended to not get into debt but found themselves in debt because it was far beyond anything they could anticipate.   Yeah, so if we could bring it to you, I mean I'm curious, what are your kind of core values or guiding, I mean is just avoiding debt, that's like a further down, you know, touch point of I assume how you want to live your life.   I'm just curious how you think about money, like you essentially deal with money for a living and we all deal with money in our personal lives.   You're someone who I would assume for a great deal of time, even more than I've been alive, I've just thought about the concept of money and I would just love to get your thoughts on it.   I mean you're, yeah.   Well I'd like to give you an answer that would q

A follow up to the episode that we ended the show with when we went on a hiatus.

This episode is the equivalent of a deep track

Freedom

Turns out the story we well ourselves is important. Robert comes on the show for a second appearance - initially invited so I could ask him for personal business advice, but the show ended up being mostly about how we label ourselves, and the impact of the story we tell ourselves.

I beat Jeremy at chess right after we recorded this.

Morgan came on the show very serendipitously, I met him via zoom a day before he was flying to Oregon, when we met it turns out his logical brother lived where Kenzie and I do right now, and he was just overall a very enjoyable person to talk with.