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Change Signal

Author: Michael Bungay Stanier

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If you’re leading change in organizations, this will be your favourite podcast.

Change is harder than ever. Transformation is more complex, unpredictable and overwhelming than it’s ever been. Change Signal cuts through the noise to find the good stuff that works.

Michael Bungay Stanier, author of The Coaching Habit and organizational transformation student for thirty years, talks to the best thinkers, senior leaders, and experienced practitioners in the world of change, to find what works, what doesn’t, and what to try instead. With Change Signal as your guide, you’ll be more efficient and less overwhelmed, and your change projects will more likely succeed.

Change Signal: Where we cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works. 

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58 Episodes
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Here are three provocative questions that arise from this Change Signal conversation with John Anthony:  Are you engaging people before you try to influence them? What resistance are you avoiding that you should be exploring? And how do you know whether you’re dancing with someone… or wrestling? John Anthony joins me to unpack why so many change conversations in large organizations stall, even with experienced leaders at the helm. He draws from motivational interviewing to show how change works best when it’s done with people, not to them. We talk about why your first job is positioning yourself as a supporting partner, not a persuader. JA explains the power of OARS — open-ended questions, affirmations, reflective listening, and summaries — as a simple way to diagnose whether you’ve actually engaged someone before asking them to move. We also explore resistance as a source of insight rather than something to avoid. JA makes a compelling case that paying attention to the discord is what shifts people from outright cynicism into genuine consideration. If you lead transformation, change management, or complex initiatives, this conversation with John Anthony offers practical tools and a more human way to navigate the messy middle of change. Change Signal. Where transformational change leaders seek and find modern change wisdom. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify
Three questions sit at the heart of this Change Signal episode: How much responsibility for change is owned throughout your organization? How much room is there for more change? How good are your mechanics at change? In this solo anniversary episode of Change Signal, I reflect on a year of conversations, experiments, and learning — and make the case that change management is a tired label for the realities leaders now face. I introduce three core drivers of modern change mastery: claimed agency, real capacity, and technical excellence. I explore why so many transformation efforts stall even when the plans look immaculate, and why ownership, space, and craft matter more than control. Along the way, I reframe the experience of change itself — from kitchen fires and fast-food efficiency to more nourishing, adaptive systems that can flourish under pressure. If you’re leading change in complex environments and wondering why the old playbooks keep falling short, this episode offers a clearer orientation for the work ahead. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change. If you’re a transformational leader seeking modern change mastery, you’re in exactly the right place. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify
Here are three provocative questions that arise from this Change Signal conversation with Simone Ahuja:  Are you solving the real problem or just the first one? What constraint might actually spark creativity? And who’s missing from the table when you design change? In this episode, Simone Ahuja — innovation strategist, intrapreneurship champion, and longtime student of jugaad — joins me to explore how change really happens inside large, complex organizations. She shows why the most valuable innovations don’t come from big budgets or big teams, but from leaders who know how to work with constraints, stay fluid in their approach, and widen the circle of who gets to shape the solution. We talk about why so many change projects stall before they even begin, often because teams are solving the wrong challenge or operating inside systems that resist anything unfamiliar. Simone offers a practical, grounded way forward: think smaller, go earlier, and design experiments that create momentum instead of overwhelm. If you lead transformation, change management, or innovation work — and want tools that work in real organizational life — this conversation with Simone is going to be useful, surprising, and energizing. Change Signal. Where transformational change leaders seek and find modern change wisdom. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify
Here are three provocative questions that arise from this Change Signal conversation with Charlie Gilkey:  What if success scares you more than failure? Where is your “head trash” quietly derailing your best ideas? And who belongs in your corner so your ambitious projects don’t stall? In this episode, I’m joined by Charlie Gilkey — author, coach, and champion of helping people finish what matters. If you’ve ever found yourself stuck between a big vision and the messy reality of actually delivering change, this conversation will feel very familiar. Charlie gently exposes the inner frictions that stop meaningful change from taking hold, especially for experienced leaders. We talk about the fears we don’t admit, the competing priorities we don’t notice, and why the lone-hero model quietly limits our impact. You’ll hear practical tools too, including Charlie’s 5-10-15 rule to help you make progress on what matters, rather than just staying busy. It’s a simple way to reclaim time, focus, and momentum without adding pressure to your already full plate. If you lead transformation, change initiatives, or complex projects, this episode offers a mix of insight, self-reflection, and concrete practices to help you not just begin, but truly finish. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change. If you’re a transformational leader seeking modern change mastery, you’re in exactly the right place. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify
Here are three big ideas that stand out in Bob Sutton’s conversation:  leadership is about being a trustee of people’s time  friction isn’t the enemy—it’s the signal   and power makes you blind to the mess you’ve created. Bob—Stanford professor, author, and organizational psychologist—joins me to explore why good intentions in big organizations often create bureaucratic nightmares. We talk about what happens when leaders chase “efficiency” but forget empathy, and why treating time as a shared, limited resource can transform how teams work together. He reminds us that not all friction is bad: the best leaders know which processes to streamline and which to slow down so people have time to think, connect, and create quality work. And he unpacks a truth that’s both humbling and practical—power shields you from everyday inconvenience. The forms you don’t fill out, the meetings you skip, the hoops others jump through: they’re invisible to you unless you go looking. If you’re leading change in a large organization, this one’s about designing systems that respect time, energy, and reality. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change, transformation, and growth. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify
Here are three provocative questions that arise from this Change Signal conversation with Charles Conn:  What’s the smallest experiment you can start today?  Where can you loosen control without losing direction?  And could your team learn faster if you planned less? Charles Conn — investor, conservationist, and author of The Imperfect Leader — joins me to talk about how great change leaders stop waiting for perfect clarity and start moving through curiosity. He argues that big “master plans” have had their day. Progress now comes from small, reversible bets, the kind you can learn from quickly and cheaply. We explore why senior leaders should push more decisions to the edges, how to create trust inside small, cross-functional pods, and why imperfectionism is the essential mindset for real transformation. If you’re steering large change projects or guiding cultural shifts, this episode is a practical invitation to trade certainty for learning — and to rediscover the messy, energizing craft of strategy that actually works in complex systems. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change. If you’re a transformational leader seeking modern change mastery, you’re in exactly the right place. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify
Here are three provocative questions that arise from this Change Signal conversation with Rachel Botsman:  What kind of trust are you actually building?  How much uncertainty can you hold before you grab for control?  And when was the last time you slowed down enough to build real trust instead of just speed? Rachel Botsman—Oxford University lecturer, author of How to Trust and Be Trusted, and one of the world’s foremost thinkers on trust—joins me to explore the fragile, fascinating relationship between trust and change. She makes a compelling case that trust isn’t about control or certainty; it’s a confident relationship with the unknown. We dig into why every change is a “trust leap,” why leaders need to spot their people’s different trust states, and why “move fast and break things” might be the worst mantra for transformation. If you’re leading a big change or cultural shift, this episode offers a fresh, human take on what actually helps people cross the sea of uncertainty with you. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change. If you’re a transformational leader seeking modern change mastery, you’re in exactly the right place. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify
Here are three provocative questions that arise from this Change Signal conversation with Dr. Ryan Brown: What are you measuring that doesn’t matter?  Where might your data be lying to you?  And what if the “immeasurable” parts of change are exactly what count? Ryan’s a behavioral scientist who studies how organizations measure what actually works—especially in complex, human systems of change. We talk about why measurement needs to start with humility—the courage to admit you might not know what’s really creating impact—and how clarity about your true objectives changes everything. He shares his simple but powerful framework: measure across three domains—feelings, thoughts, and behaviors—so you capture both what people do and what they believe. And we dig into the hidden traps of data itself: how metrics get gamed, why context shapes truth, and why “data never speak for themselves.” If you lead large-scale transformation, this episode helps you move beyond dashboards and surveys to something more essential—learning what’s real, what matters, and what’s worth measuring at all. Change Signal. Where transformational change leaders seek and find modern change wisdom. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify
Here are three big questions that Misha Glouberman asks in the quest for better change gatherings: What if the way you’re structuring your events is stopping the very change you want to create? How might things shift if you assumed everyone involved was a competent adult? And are your “best practices” actually working against your goals? Misha Glouberman is a master of human dynamics and group design — a facilitator who’s spent decades helping people run better meetings, conferences, and community events. In this short, lively conversation, he shares four simple rules for creating gatherings that actually work — and how those same rules apply to change projects of every kind. You’ll hear why most organizations forget to ask the most basic question (“What’s this for?”), how to design experiences that align with your real goals, and why giving people more control creates more engagement, not chaos. If your change initiatives involve bringing people together — in rooms, on screens, or across departments — this episode will make you rethink how you host, design, and lead. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change. If you’re a transformational leader seeking modern change mastery, you’re in exactly the right place. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify
Here are three big questions that arise from this Change Signal conversation with Antonio Nieto-Rodriguez: Are your projects actually shaping your future? Is your team a true team — or just a group of people in meetings? And what if success isn’t about deadlines at all? Antonio Nieto-Rodriguez, author of Powered by Projects and one of the world’s leading voices in project management, argues that most organizations are running too many projects — and mistaking motion for progress. Every project you approve is a bet on your organization’s future. Fewer, simpler, more purposeful projects deliver more meaningful change. He challenges how we measure success, suggesting that being “on time and on budget” means very little if no one benefits from the outcome. Real success lies in delivering tangible value to stakeholders — even if that takes longer than planned. And he’s refreshingly blunt about accountability: if your project doesn’t have a visible sponsor, stop it immediately. Because groups don’t deliver projects — teams do. If you’re leading transformation or portfolio change, this conversation reframes project management from bureaucracy to boldness — and shows you how to make every project count. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change. If you’re a transformational leader seeking modern change mastery, you’re in exactly the right place. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify
Here are three big questions that arise from this Change Signal conversation with Vanessa Bohns: Are you overlooking the influence you already have? What if social proof beats every logical argument? Could your smallest comments be shaping culture the most? Vanessa Bohns, professor of organizational behavior at Cornell and author of You Have More Influence Than You Think, has spent two decades studying how influence actually works — not in theory, but in the everyday reality of teams, leaders, and organizations. We talk about why influence isn’t instant or obvious — it’s delayed, cumulative, and often invisible — and why showing people what their peers are doing changes behaviour faster than any motivational speech. She also reveals how the tiniest inconsistencies, like a side comment or an eye roll, can quietly undo even the most polished change message. And the practical takeaway? Be present, ask directly (and in person), and make it easy for people to say no, so their yes really means yes. If you’re leading transformation or culture change, this conversation will help you see your influence — and your everyday leadership moments — in a whole new way. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change. If you’re a transformational leader seeking modern change mastery, you’re in exactly the right place. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify
Here are three big insights that emerge from this Change Signal conversation with Hahrie Han: Are you creating value or just convenience?; Does belonging come before belief in your organization?; and Are you building agency or just compliance? Hahrie Han, political scientist at Johns Hopkins University and author of How Organizations Develop Activists and Undivided, has spent her career studying how people build power that lasts. She brings a sharp, human perspective on what drives genuine participation and why small, intentional acts often change systems more than sweeping plans. The conversation explores why engagement depends less on ease and more on meaning, how “radical belonging” can transform even divided communities, and how leaders can use small, safe failures to build confidence and agency across teams. You’ll also hear practical tools for turning involvement into influence — designing scaffolding that helps people learn from risk and own their results. If you’re leading transformation, culture, or change projects in a big organization, this conversation offers fresh, grounded insight into how participation turns into durable power. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change. This is the podcast for transformational leaders seeking modern change mastery. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify
Here are three big insights that emerge from this Change Signal conversation with Charles Vogl:  Leadership maturity means rejecting the “Superman” myth of doing it all alone; Real change requires creating spaces where the rules are rewritten; and Belonging — and transformation — scale through small, steady “campfire” gatherings, not grand events. Charles Vogl, author of The Art of Community, has spent his career helping leaders move from heroic independence to interdependent impact. Drawing from his work with the Peace Corps, the military, and mission-driven organizations, Charles shows how leaders can build communities that hold trust, courage, and connection — without losing focus on performance. The conversation explores how to create “sacred spaces” where vulnerability is safe, why deep community often looks boring on the surface, and how scaling change means working in small units with intention. If you’re leading transformation, culture, or organizational change, this episode offers grounded, practical insight into how belonging becomes your most powerful change strategy — and why it’s time to put the Superman cape away. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change. This is the podcast for transformational leaders seeking modern change mastery. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify
Here are three provocative questions that arise from this Change Signal conversation with Dr. Linda Ackerman Anderson: What if change were treated like finance? Are your leaders modelling the change — or just managing it? And what hidden costs are you paying for “too much change, too fast”? For forty-plus years, Linda has studied what actually derails transformational change. Her insights aren’t about tools or templates — they’re about discipline, mindset, and meaning. She shows why relevance and personal connection drive real engagement, and why most organizations still treat change as an event instead of a strategic function. We dig into the trap of leaders who delegate transformation without transforming themselves, and the illusion that people can “add” change on top of already full plates. It’s an unflinching look at how organizations overload, under-resource, and unintentionally resist the very change they want. If you lead change projects in a large organization, this episode will help you see the patterns behind slow traction and surface-level buy-in — and how to lead change that actually sticks. Change Signal. Where transformational change leaders seek and find modern change wisdom. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify
Here are three big questions that arise from this Change Signal conversation with Paulo Pisano: Is complexity masking your real priorities?; What sacrifices are you pretending aren’t happening?; and How are you building protagonist mindsets? Paulo Pisano, CHRO at Booking.com, has spent his career leading transformation in large, global organizations where change is never simple. He brings a grounded perspective on how to simplify without dumbing down, and why leaders need the discipline to stop saying “yes” to everything. The conversation explores why honest change leadership means naming losses and trade-offs instead of painting everything as a win. Paulo shows how acknowledging sacrifice reduces victim mindsets and keeps people engaged in the process. You’ll also hear about the mindset shifts he’s championing — helping people move from victim to protagonist, from knower to learner, and from silos to true one-team collaboration. These are practical, human tools for embedding change in ways that actually last. If you’re navigating transformation or change leadership in a big organization, this conversation offers fresh, pragmatic insights into what really makes change stick. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change. This is the podcast for transformational leaders seeking modern change mastery. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify
Here are three provocative questions that emerge from this Change Signal conversation with Dave Ulrich: Why do so many leaders know what to do in change but fail to actually do it? If change is always messy and iterative, how can leaders set expectations without killing momentum? What does it really take to lead through paradox instead of choosing sides? Most change leaders treat transformation like a neat plan: set the strategy, communicate the vision, and drive execution. Dave Ulrich, one of the most influential HR and leadership thinkers of the past 30 years, argues that this mindset misses the real challenge. In this conversation, he explains why the knowing–doing gap is the biggest barrier to transformation, how to embrace experimentation and failure as part of the process, and why courage in leadership often means knowing when not to act. The most provocative idea? Great leaders don’t eliminate tension — they learn to navigate the paradoxes between instinct and data, boldness and patience, top-down direction and bottom-up energy. If you’re leading change management or organizational transformation, this conversation offers a practical, human, and honest look at what leadership really requires. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change. If you’re a transformational leader seeking modern change mastery, you’re in the right place. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify
Here are three provocative questions that emerge from this Change Signal conversation with Kirstin Ferguson: Why does character matter more than competence when it comes to inspiring transformation? Do everyday leadership moments shape culture more than big, staged gestures? What happens when leaders ask better questions instead of always giving answers? Kirstin Ferguson, leadership thinker, board director, and author of Blindspotting: How to See What Others Miss, knows the difference between leaders who drive lasting change and those who unintentionally stall it by leaning too heavily on expertise. In this episode, she explains why character-driven leadership sparks trust, how small daily interactions quietly accumulate into culture, and how curiosity creates the conditions for real transformation. Most provocatively, Kirstin shows why competence on its own isn’t enough — and how the most effective leaders unlock momentum by asking better questions. If you’re leading change management or organizational transformation, this conversation offers a practical, human, and transformative approach to leadership. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change. If you’re a transformational leader seeking modern change mastery, you’re in the right place. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify
Dan Pontefract’s three big insights on modern change mastery and leading meaningful organizational transformation: Managing up is a critical part of change leadership, and there are smarter ways to do it; Culture isn’t “soft” — it’s the real work of change and can’t be delegated away; and Purpose, balance, and generational shifts are forces shaping how transformation actually succeeds. Dan, formerly CLO at Telus and SAP, didn’t just improve engagement — he shifted it dramatically and built transformation capability that lasted. Today, as an author and advisor, he’s helping senior leaders connect strategy, culture, and humanity in ways that stick. If you’re steering change management or organizational transformation, this conversation speaks directly to your challenges. You’ll hear practical strategies for navigating executives who quietly resist, cultures that talk engagement but don’t live it, and projects that risk burning people out. This is about change leadership that’s grounded, human, and effective. 👉RESOURCES:Dan’s website: https://www.danpontefract.comLearn more about his books: https://geni.us/danpontefract Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change. If you’re a transformational leader seeking modern change mastery, you’re in the right place. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify
Here are three provocative questions that emerge from this Change Signal conversation with Kate Lye: Why do executive teams excel at functional expertise but falter at systems thinking? Can CEOs transform their organizations without first transforming themselves? What happens if change leaders never secure permission to call out executive sabotage? For decades, Kate Lye has watched change programs fade into irrelevance, and she knows why. As a performance partner to CEOs, she’s seen how even the sharpest executives unintentionally sabotage transformation by clinging to their comfort zones. The real obstacle isn’t employee resistance. It’s leaders who mistake cheerleading for leadership, or strategic talk for actual work. Lye explains how to spot the moment when a change effort quietly slips from priority one to priority nowhere. She argues that contracting conversations with CEOs — where you establish the right to challenge and hold them accountable — aren’t optional. They’re essential. Most provocatively, she points out that while executives thrive in functional expertise, they struggle with systems thinking. That’s why they so often hand off the heavy lifting of change to others while reserving for themselves the figurehead role. If you’re tired of watching transformation initiatives stall, Kate’s insights will shift how you see executive engagement. This isn’t about winning buy-in — it’s about getting leaders to own the role they play in whether change succeeds or fails.  Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change. If you’re a transformational leader seeking modern change mastery, you’re in the right place. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify
Here are three provocative questions that arise from this Change Signal conversation with Todd Kashdan:  Are you cooperating too much for change to succeed?  What personal costs are you willing to pay for principled rebellion?  Why do people hide their real beliefs just to fit in? My friend Todd Kashdan, psychology professor and author of The Art of Insubordination, brings some unexpected wisdom about what it really takes to lead transformational change in organizations. Todd argues that early cooperation actually destroys the cognitive diversity you need for breakthrough solutions. Instead of seeking harmony, change leaders should encourage criticality, independence, and productive conflict. But here’s the trade-off nobody talks about: effective insubordination means accepting real personal costs — hits to your wellbeing, relationships, and peace of mind in service of meaning and purpose. The most powerful insight? Change leaders can amplify unheard voices by leveraging their organization’s “socially attractive” people — and by separating ideas from their originators to overcome bias. If you’re tired of change initiatives that revert to the mean, this conversation offers a fresh perspective on principled rebellion. Todd shows why being a transformational leader sometimes means being the rebel your organization needs, even when it’s uncomfortable. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change. This is the podcast for transformational leaders seeking modern change mastery. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify
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