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The Out Of Programme (OOP) podcast shines a spotlight on clinicians who have ventured beyond the traditional path of clinical training to forge unique and unconventional careers.
Hosted by Dr Jing Ouyang, this series delves into the diverse backgrounds, driving motivations and transformative moments that shaped their journeys outside the realm of medicine. Whether you’re a clinician curious about life beyond the white coat or simply fascinated by stories of bold career reinvention, this podcast offers inspiring conversations and thought-provoking insights that go beyond the ordinary.
Hosted by Dr Jing Ouyang, this series delves into the diverse backgrounds, driving motivations and transformative moments that shaped their journeys outside the realm of medicine. Whether you’re a clinician curious about life beyond the white coat or simply fascinated by stories of bold career reinvention, this podcast offers inspiring conversations and thought-provoking insights that go beyond the ordinary.
26 Episodes
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What happens when an anaesthetist with a passion for physiology discovers the world of sleep medicine — and decides to build a tech startup to solve one of healthcare's biggest undiagnosed problems?In this episode, we speak with Dr Tom Chambers, an anaesthetist, sleep medicine specialist, and co-founder of Theta Sleep. Tom shares his journey from traditional medical training to founding a health tech company that's bringing sleep apnea care from hospitals into patients' homes.• 🏥 The accidental discovery of sleep medicine during an F2 respiratory rotation at Barts• 🧠 How a chance meeting at a WIRED Health conference led to consulting opportunities• 🔧 The leap from clinical practice to startup life — and the challenges of learning on the job• 👨👩👧👦 Building Theta Sleep with his brother as CEO — and navigating that unique dynamic• ⚖️ Why sleep medicine is perfectly positioned for tech-enabled home careTom's story is a masterclass in following curiosity, saying yes to opportunities, and building a business that solves a genuine healthcare need at scale.
What happens when a junior doctor leads the biggest NHS dispute in a generation — and then builds a global medical education organisation?In this episode, we speak with Dr Johann Malawana, an obstetrician and former chair of the BMA's Junior Doctors Committee during the high-profile 2015-2016 contract dispute. He is now the founder and CEO of Medics.Academy, a global health education company, and holds several senior academic roles.• 🏥 How Johann fell into medical school politics — and ended up chairing the BMA• ⚕️ The reality of leading industrial action during the junior doctors contract battle• 🧠 Why he founded Medics.Academy and scaled it into a global edtech platform• 🔧 Lessons from balancing clinical practice with entrepreneurship and academic leadership• ⚖️ The importance of maintaining your clinical identity while building outside medicine• 📈 How to navigate high-stakes negotiations and emerge with your principles intactJohann's story is a masterclass in leadership under pressure, taking calculated risks, and building a career that spans clinical practice, politics, and technology — without losing sight of what matters.Follow us on: 🗞 Substack 💼 LinkedIn ▶ YouTube🎧 Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts
What happens when two medical students spot a dirty tourniquet, build a single-use alternative that sells 75 million units globally — and one of them still operates every week as an NHS consultant plastic surgeon?In this episode, we speak with Ryan Kerstein, a consultant plastic surgeon and Associate Medical Director for Research and Innovation at Buckinghamshire Healthcare NHS Trust. Ryan leads the BRAIN Innovation Unit, directs the Royal College of Surgeons iHub, and co-founded ASAP Healthcare as a medical student.🏥 How a mucky reusable tourniquet in the MRSA era sparked a med school business idea🔧 From cutting tray paper in McDonald's to landing on the NHS Supply Chain with 75 million units sold💼 Leaving surgery for BCG management consulting — and why he came back to the NHS🧠 Being told to take innovation off his CV — and stubbornly proving the doubters wrong🚀 Building the first national surgical innovation group and championing a new career path for clinical intrapreneurs⚖️ Balancing a full-time clinical practice with portfolio leadership roles across trust, college, and companyRyan's journey is a masterclass in turning frontline frustration into lasting impact — and proof that you don't have to choose between clinical excellence and driving innovation.Follow us on: 🗞 Substack 💼 LinkedIn ▶ YouTube🎧 Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts
What happens when a radiologist leaves clinical practice to become a HealthTech investor, backing 100+ startups, and championing philanthropy in healthcare?In this episode, we speak with Dr Fiona Pathiraja-Moller, a former NHS radiologist turned HealthTech investor and managing partner of Christa Gali Ventures, a European investment fund backing early-stage HealthTech startups. Fiona is also a board trustee for several prestigious organisations including the Royal College of Physicians and the Royal Botanical Gardens, Kew, and leads philanthropic efforts in healthcare, education, and the arts through her family office, IPQ Capital.🏥 The early spark: How medical school fascination with the human body led to radiology🤔 From F2 to management consultancy: Questioning the system and proactively acquiring new skills🧠 Challenging the status quo: Taking back agency and rejecting “this is just how it is”💡 Making real impact: How a Department of Health policy Fiona worked on affected 91,000 junior doctors🚀 From angel investor to fund manager: Founding Christa Gali Ventures and backing over 150 startups📈 The raw truth behind startup success: Navigating co-founder splits, lawsuits, and valuation slashes💖 Beyond the hustle: Supporting founders through life’s toughest moments🌱 Philanthropy and governance: Championing modern leadership and giving back through global institutionsFiona’s story is a deep dive into how to continuously challenge convention, cultivate a diverse portfolio of interests, and leverage your unique perspective to drive meaningful change, both in and out of medicine.Follow us on: 🗞 Substack 💼 LinkedIn ▶ YouTube🎧 Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts
What happens when a doctor with cystic fibrosis, who was once told he may not be able to cope with the rigours of medicine, not only becomes a doctor but also founds a MedTech company aimed at improving patient experience?In this episode, we speak with Dr Jonathan King, a gastroenterology registrar, NHS clinical entrepreneur fellow, and founder of Medical Ease. Jonathan shares his extraordinary path from patient to doctor, driven by a deep desire to help others and transform healthcare from the inside out.🏥 How a life-changing hospital admission at 15 inspired Jonathan to pursue medicine, despite his own battle with cystic fibrosis.🤔 The personal challenges and external doubts he faced, including being advised against medicine due to his health, and how he proved them wrong.🇮🇳 His profound experience in India, which led to a near lung transplant and a pivotal shift in his medical career and perspective.🏃♂️ How his dedication to exercise not only improved his health but also sparked the idea for remote patient monitoring.💡 The serendipitous journey and unique challenges of founding Medical Ease, a digital health startup tackling language and accessibility barriers in clinical care.🤝 Jonathan’s experience as a fellow with the prestigious European accelerator, EWAR, and the invaluable community and lessons learned.Jonathan’s story is a powerful testament to resilience, innovation, and using personal adversity to drive meaningful change in healthcare. He shares candidly about the trade-offs and difficulties of balancing a demanding clinical career with the entrepreneurial hustle.Follow us on: 🗞 Substack 💼 LinkedIn ▶ YouTube🎧 Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts
From a junior doctor to a prominent HealthTech voice and founder – how did Dr. Derrick Khor build a thriving medical consulting group and become a go-to expert for health innovation?In this episode, we sit down with Dr Derrick Khor, a clinical oncology doctor, HealthTech connector, and founder of the Medical Consulting Group. He shares his incredible journey from a self-proclaimed "pure medic" to advising ventures like GG Ventures, Zinc, and VentureBlink, all while bridging the gap between medicine and innovation.⚕️ How a strong conviction for oncology at 18 led him across continents to the UK, and the cultural shifts he encountered in medical practice.🦠 The unexpected catalyst of COVID-19 and the birth of his HealthTech journey – from a frustrated ST3 to a LinkedIn sensation.📈 The evolution of "Adopt-a-Doc" into the Medical Consulting Group, scaling clinical engagement and understanding the true value of clinician input.🧠 Navigating imposter syndrome and the profound realisation that clinicians possess invaluable, often overlooked, expertise for HealthTech founders.⚖️ The delicate balance of saying "yes" to opportunities while safeguarding personal values and avoiding exploitation in a rapidly growing industry.👨👩👧👦 Balancing a demanding clinical career, a thriving business, and family life with two young children.Join us as Dr. Khor reveals the power of consistency, authentic engagement, and the art of translating clinical insight into commercial impact.Follow us on: 🗞 Substack 💼 LinkedIn ▶ YouTube🎧 Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts
From the NHS front lines to health diplomacy and global consulting: How does a doctor navigate a non-linear career path, bridging East and West in health innovation?In this episode, we speak with Dr Ruby Wang, a doctor and former Head of Health for China in the Foreign Office, now Director of Lintris – an award-winning consultancy bridging China and the West on health policy, biopharma, and medtech.🏥 Why a fascination with surgery led to medicine, and how the realities of the NHS spurred a search for new challenges🌍 Joining the Foreign Office during the pandemic and shaping UK-China health diplomacy💡 Founding Lintris: How Dr Wang’s unique expertise became an award-winning consultancy⚖️ Balancing clinical practice, consultancy work, and a non-linear career mindset📚 The power of networks, continuous learning, and embracing serendipity in career pivotsDr Wang’s journey is an inspiring exploration of cultural bridges, global health, and the courage to redefine professional purpose beyond traditional medical pathways.Follow us on: 🗞 Substack 💼 LinkedIn ▶ YouTube🎧 Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts
What does it take to move from French to UK healthtech, found not one, but two pioneering healthtech companies, and innovate obstetric surgical practice within the NHS?In this episode, we speak with Dr Benjamin de Viaris, a women's health consultant and healthtech entrepreneur with a career spanning both France and the UK. He is the co-founder of Cellen, a pioneering platform for personalised medicine, and Leva Clinic, one of the UK's first digital pain clinics.🇫🇷🇬🇧 Navigating a medical career between France and the UK – and why one system is more efficient!💡 From hackathons in Bethlehem to building a vibrant healthtech community in France and the UK🚀 The journey of Cellen & Leva Clinic: how to build, scale, and exit healthtech businesses🏥 Pioneering the HOPE section: bringing personalised obstetric surgical innovation to the NHS🔑 Why maintaining clinical practice de-risks your entrepreneurial venturesBenjamin's story is a fascinating insight into cross-cultural medical innovation, the realities of building and scaling healthtech solutions, and how to drive change within the NHS.Follow us on: 🗞 Substack 💼 LinkedIn ▶ YouTube🎧 Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts
What happens when a junior doctor builds a SaaS business for the NHS before SaaS was even a thing?In this episode, we sit down with Dr Henry Carleton — founder of Circadian and Four Eyes Insight, two healthcare software companies that changed the face of workforce and theatre productivity in the NHS. Both exited successfully, setting a blueprint for clinician-led innovation long before the health tech boom.Henry’s story spans from sneaking off to France mid-med school to run a classified ads business, to bootstrapping one of the most widely adopted rota management tools in the UK — all without a single VC cheque.✈️ The med student years: failing rotations while flying to Montpellier to run a print newspaper🍷 Why his first wine business failed — and what it taught him about risk, contracts, and taste-testing the stock🧠 Spotting an unsexy NHS workforce problem no one was solving — and turning it into a thriving SaaS business💡 Bootstrapping to product-market fit without investors, incubators, or buzzwords🧾 Navigating acquisition as a first-time founder and why he did it all again with business #2🧭 His no-nonsense advice for clinicians thinking of leaving medicine or building in health techThis is a masterclass in resilience, timing, and building what the NHS actually needs — long before it’s ready for it.Follow us on:🗞 Substack💼 LinkedIn▶ YouTube🎧 Listen now on:🔹 Spotify🔹 Apple Podcasts
From WHO internships to NHS executive leadership — with a startup in the mix.In this episode, we speak with Dr Victoria Bakare, a GP whose career spans global health roles at the WHO, UN, and World Bank, a leadership position as Associate Medical Director at Kent Community NHS Foundation Trust, and the founding of Occuvia Health, a mission-driven occupational health company supporting charities and NGOs.🌍 How a WHO internship opened the door to global health opportunities🏥 What it takes to become a medical director early in your clinical career⚙️ Why Victoria pivoted into occupational medicine — and found her true purpose there🚀 The early stages of building Occuvia Health while balancing multiple roles and an MBA🙏 How faith, flexibility, and bold decisions shaped a career across continents and sectorsVictoria’s journey is a masterclass in designing a meaningful, multi-dimensional career — on your own terms.Follow us on:🗞 Substack💼 LinkedIn▶ YouTube🎧 Listen on your favourite platform:SpotifyApple Podcasts
What happens when a junior doctor turns a single flat into 50 properties — and then builds a platform to fix the broken home-buying system?In this episode, we speak with Dr Sayinthen Vivekanantham, a former NHS doctor who left clinical training to pursue property investing, eventually founding Homi, a fast-growing PropTech startup reshaping how real estate agents, solicitors, and buyers collaborate.🏥 Why medicine felt like the wrong choice — and the creative frustration that sparked Say’s pivot🧮 How he built a 50-property portfolio from scratch using spreadsheets, stress tests and grit🧠 Lessons from failed startups and side projects in medical school🔧 What inspired Homi and how Say bootstrapped it into a platform now powering 3,000+ transactions/month⚖️ Balancing risk, regret, and building a scalable business — without losing your life to workSay’s story is a deep dive into how to take calculated risks, trust your instincts, and design a career that fits you — not just your degree.Follow us on:🗞 Substack💼 LinkedIn▶ YouTube🎧 Listen on:Spotify | Apple Podcasts
What drives a doctor to swap the wards for boardrooms—and end up leading healthcare strategy across the Middle East?In this episode, we sit down with Dr Zahra Safarfashandi, now Partner at Carnall Farrar, to unpack her bold move from medicine into consulting and her rise to leadership on a global stage.From overcoming family hesitations to pitching to hospital boards on day one, Zahra shares the lessons learned from choosing impact over tradition. She opens up about building a career in healthcare consulting, spearheading transformation in the GCC, and redefining success as a parent and leader.We dive into:💡 Breaking into consulting straight out of medical school🌍 Taking healthcare transformation to the Middle East⚖️ Balancing ambition with intention—and the reality of trade-offs👩👦 How motherhood reshaped her definition of successZahra’s story is a must-listen for anyone curious about consulting, global healthcare, or carving out an authentic path beyond the clinic.Follow us on:🗞️ Substack: http://outofprogramme.com➡️ YouTube: @outofprogramme👨💻 LinkedIn: @outofprogramme🎧 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1ZbQCk6B9ongfOvKFCxIdx?si=1d5babf9bbca4e7a🍎 Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/ie/podcast/out-of-programme/id1791647812
Dr Lucy Marples has had one of the most unconventional career journeys in medicine — starting in philosophy and health policy, before training as a doctor in her 30s, and then working at some of the UK’s biggest health tech companies.In this episode we explore:📚 Why she left health policy to retrain as a doctor🏥 What it was like starting medical school a decade later than her peers🚀 Lessons from scaling Babylon and Accurx at times of extreme growth💡 Insights from her time at Google Health and Zoe🔑 How she balances clinical work, startup roles, and advisory positionsLucy also shares her advice for clinicians looking to explore portfolio careers and how to decide which opportunities are worth pursuing.Follow us on:🗞️ Substack: http://outofprogramme.com➡️ YouTube: @outofprogramme👨💻 LinkedIn: @outofprogramme🎧 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1ZbQCk6B9ongfOvKFCxIdx?si=1d5babf9bbca4e7a🍎 Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/ie/podcast/out-of-programme/id1791647812
What does it take to leave anaesthetics behind and reimagine your career in the world of finance?In this episode, we speak with Dr Ash Patel – an anaesthetist turned Managing Director at Houlihan Lokey. Ash shares his extraordinary journey from the wards of the NHS to the early founding days of Babylon Health, through venture capital at Mercia and Optum Ventures, and finally to investment banking.We dive into:💡 The serendipitous introduction that led him to join Babylon in its infancy🚀 What it was like to help shape one of the UK’s most high-profile digital health startups📈 How he broke into venture capital at a time when almost no doctors were in the field💼 Why he pivoted again, this time into investment banking, and what he’s learned along the wayAsh’s story shows how curiosity, courage, and a willingness to embrace uncertainty can open doors to unexpected and rewarding career paths.Follow us on:🗞️ Substack: http://outofprogramme.com▶️ YouTube: @OutOfProgramme🎧 Spotify: Listen here🍎 Apple Podcasts: Listen here
What happens when a torn ligament becomes the turning point in your clinical career?In this episode, we speak with Dr Alice McGee – a former obstetrics trainee who left traditional training behind to found Mara Health, advise global FemTech companies like Flow, and lead one of the fastest-growing communities for emerging health tech leaders, GXGN.Alice opens up about the identity crisis that came with leaving medicine, how she cold-DM’d her way into consulting from her sofa in Aberdeen, and why tenacity, not connections, was her biggest asset.We dive into:💡 Rebuilding confidence after burnout and injury🚺 Breaking into FemTech without a network🏢 Starting Mara Health and finding your niche🧠 Imposter syndrome, rejection therapy, and LinkedIn visibility🌱 Launching the Your Next Move newsletter and chairing GXGNIf you're questioning the status quo or looking for your next move, Alice’s story is a blueprint in courage, community, and career reinvention.—Follow us on:🗞️ Substack: http://outofprogramme.com▶️ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@OutOfProgramme
What happens when you turn military medicine into a launchpad for tech innovation?In this episode, we speak with Dr James Kuht – an RAF doctor whose career has taken him from flying with the Royal Air Force to advising the Prime Minister in No.10, teaching thousands of British military personnel how to code, and founding Pear, an AI skills platform now used worldwide.We dive into:✈️ Training as an RAF doctor and navigating an unconventional medical career💻 Creating a viral AI upskilling programme that reached 5,000+ service members🏛️ Founding the Downing Street data science team and shaping policy with data📡 Leading innovation on the frontline as the first regiment Chief Technology Officer🚀 The highs, lows, and pivots of building a successful AI startupJames’s story is a masterclass in spotting opportunities, taking calculated risks, and shaping a career at the cutting edge of medicine, military, and technology.Follow us on:🗞️ Substack: http://outofprogramme.com▶️ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@OutOfProgramme👨💻 LinkedIn: @outofprogramme
What do you do when the surgical dream no longer fits - and the music industry calls?In this episode, we speak with Dr Azeem Alam, clinical radiology registrar and co-founder of BiteWorld - the company behind the highly acclaimed BiteLabs Fellowship, which helps clinicians transition into health tech careers.From writing heartbreak ballads in his teens to working with Top 40 artists in LA, Azeem shares how his creative roots shaped an unconventional career path that now spans clinical training, entrepreneurship, and impact at scale.We dive into:🎸 The early music hustle - from cold emailing labels to LA studios💻 Founding ByteWorld and training 1,000+ clinicians for roles in health tech⚖️ Balancing radiology training with building a fast-growing startup🏥 Why he walked away from academic surgical training (weeks before starting)🧠 Navigating career guilt, community, and identity as a multi-hyphenate clinicianAzeem’s story is an honest and inspiring look at what happens when you step off the medical treadmill and start building something of your own.—Follow us:🗞️ Substack: http://outofprogramme.com📺 YouTube: youtube.com/@OutOfProgramme
What does it take to walk away from anaesthetics and lead one of the world’s top healthcare communication networks?In this episode, we speak with Dr Vernon Bainton—Chief Medical Officer at HavasLynx—about his unconventional journey from hospital medicine to global medical communications. Vernon shares how personal upheaval, health challenges, and an unexpected meeting with three entrepreneurial clinicians changed the trajectory of his career.We dive into:💡 Finding career clarity through serendipity, not a five-year plan🚪 Leaving medicine and shedding the guilt that comes with it🌍 Launching global health campaigns that reach millions🎯 Building a vocation in communication, creativity, and strategic influence🧠 Why transferable skills matter more than you think—and how to spot yoursThis is a must-listen for any clinician contemplating a leap into the unknown.Follow us on:🗞️ Substack: outofprogramme.com➡️ Youtube: @outofprogramme🎧 Spotify: Listen here🍎 Apple Podcasts: Listen here
What happens when you choose not to pursue residency after medical school?In this episode, we speak with Elsa Varghese—a medical doctor who walked away from the traditional path to build a career at the cutting edge of digital health. From family pressure and financial worries to launching clinical games at Level X and leading teams at Snake Inc., Elsa shares how she transformed uncertainty into opportunity.We dive into:💡 Finding purpose beyond the ward🎮 Building medical education games with Hollywood-style teams🧠 Leading diverse teams as a medical director🏥 Redefining success in a system that doesn’t make space for changeElsa’s story is a must-listen for anyone questioning the status quo in clinical careers.
What does it take to be a paediatric surgeon and the driving force behind one of the NHS’s most groundbreaking innovation hubs?In this episode, we sit down with Mr. Iain Hennessey, Consultant Paediatric Surgeon and Clinical Director of Innovation at Alder Hey Children’s Hospital. From a childhood spent in the mine rescue medical centre to founding the iconic Alder Hey Innovation Hub (aka the Batcave), Iain shares how he fused medicine, creativity, and technology to forge a truly unconventional clinical career.Tune in to hear:How Iain’s engineering instincts and love of theatre shaped his surgical journeyThe origin story of the Alder Hey Innovation Hub and why 2014 was a tipping point for NHS innovationHonest reflections on risk, failure, and redefining clinical successPractical advice for doctors who want to explore innovation without leaving medicine behindWhether you're a med student, clinician, or creative thinker at a crossroads, this episode is your invitation to imagine a different kind of future in healthcare.
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