Saving the World From Bad Ideas

Should we be fishing for krill in the Antarctic? In this extraordinary episode, Mark Lynas connects via satellite with three researchers aboard a Sea Shepherd vessel in the Southern Ocean near the South Orkney Islands—one of the most remote and important whale feeding grounds on Earth.Matt Savoca (Stanford/California Marine Sanctuary Foundation), Ted Cheeseman (UC Santa Cruz/Happy Whale), and Lucia Morillo (Sea Shepherd science coordinator) are conducting the first truly independent survey of this region. Their mission: understand the overlap between recovering whale populations and an expanding industrial krill fishery that takes 620,000 tons annually—the same amount of food consumed by hundreds of thousands of whales, seals, and penguins.This conversation exposes the krill paradox (why krill didn't explode after whales were removed), whale poop's critical role as ocean fertilizer, climate change shrinking krill habitat southward, and why the Marine Stewardship Council's sustainability certification is now facing objections from WWF and other major conservation groups.🧠 Topics Discussed:🐋 Fin whale recovery: from 500,000 to <10,000, now rebounding in South Orkneys🦐 Krill fishery: 12 vessels from 5 countries, 11 months/year industrial operation📊 Misleading 1% claim: catch calculated across Europe-sized ocean, concentrated in wildlife hotspots🔬 First independent survey: Sea Shepherd enabling fishery-independent research🌡️ Climate crisis: sea ice loss collapsing krill breeding in northern regions💩 Krill paradox: whale poop fertilizes phytoplankton that feeds krill—ecosystem engineering🎯 Fishing overlap: whales concentrate where vessels fish; empty water elsewhere🧬 Genetic sampling: pregnancy rates, body condition, sex determination via crossbow biopsy📡 Echo sounding: mapping krill concentrations at ecologically relevant scales for predators🐟 Salmon farming connection: most krill feeds farmed Atlantic salmon in coastal pollution zones🏷️ MSC certification under fire: WWF, ASOC, WePlanet object to sustainability claim👨‍🏫 Guest Bios:Matt Savoca is a marine biologist at Stanford University and California Marine Sanctuary Foundation studying whale ecology and ocean conservation.Ted Cheeseman is a research fellow at UC Santa Cruz and co-founder of Happy Whale, a citizen science platform that has identified nearly every living humpback whale globally.Lucia Murillo is science coordinator for Sea Shepherd, leading campaigns exposing industrial fishing in Antarctica and other protected waters.📚 Recommended Reading:● Sea Shepherd Antarctic web series on YouTube ● Happy Whale platform for whale identification ● ASOC (Antarctic and Southern Ocean Coalition) MPA proposals ● Studies on krill paradox and whale fertilization💬 Quote Highlights:"Fin whales were reduced by about 95% in 70 years—approximately the lifespan of one single fin whale. The scale of destruction is remarkable." — Matt Savoca"In Antarctica, everything eats krill or eats something that eats krill. The food chains are really, really short." — Lucia Murillo"Each krill fishing vessel takes as much food daily as 100-500 whales. It's structured for conflict." — Ted Cheeseman"The 1% claim uses a denominator the size of Europe. But if all fishing happens in Paris and London, is that appropriate?" — Matt Savoca"This is arguably the place with the highest density of great whales anywhere on the planet. A crown jewel in the world of recovering oceans." — Ted Cheeseman🌐 About WePlanet:WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human progress. Learn more at weplanet.org📥 Support their work and connect with us💰 Support Sea Shepherd: seashepherd.org 🐋 Learn more: happywhale.com 💬 Email us: podcast@weplanet.org 📩 Subscribe: weplanet.org/podcast 👁️ Follow: @weplanetint

Is there really not enough land for renewables? In this conversation, Mark Lynas sits down with Tom Heap—BBC Countryfile presenter, Radio 4's Rare Earth co-host, and author of Land Smart: How to Give People and Nature the Space to Thrive—to tackle one of the most important yet least discussed environmental issues: land use.Heap makes the case that there's plenty of space for solar (and wind has minimal footprint), especially since solar excels at multifunctional use—combining with housing, car parks, farming, and floating on water bodies. The real land crisis? Livestock occupies a third of Earth's land and over half of agricultural land, delivering 6-16 times less protein per acre than crops. Meanwhile, biofuels require 50-100 times more land than solar for the same energy output, making aviation's biofuel dreams a land use nightmare.But the conversation goes deeper: rewilding's evolution from absolutist vision to pragmatic spectrum, why regenerative farming must avoid yield penalties, and the troubling vibe shift in climate politics. Despite renewables now being cheaper than fossil fuels and China's coal use peaking, environmental issues have dropped down the political agenda. Heap argues we're in a trough, not permanent decline—but only if we keep talking about it and bust the myths that disempowers action.🧠 Topics Discussed:⚡ Land requirements for solar vs nuclear vs wind (solar is tiny, shareable)🌾 Livestock's massive footprint: 1/3 of Earth's land, half of agricultural land🌱 Biofuels disaster: 50-100x less efficient than solar per area✈️ Aviation biofuels would require America's entire land area just for domestic flights🐑 Sheep-wrecked hills: green deserts masquerading as countryside🌿 Rewilding evolution: from absolutist to spectrum, avoiding food footprint export🥩 Regenerative farming challenge: needs yield parity or risks overseas displacement🧬 Gene editing progress: crops partnering with fungus for nitrogen, holy grail of nitrogen-fixing cereals🇨🇳 Pakistan's grid death spiral: behind-the-meter solar boom crashing legacy infrastructure🌍 Climate vibe shift: why environmental issues dropped off the agenda despite tech wins📊 Pluralistic ignorance: 66% support climate action but think they're a minority (actually believe it's 40%)🚗 Myth busting: rich countries driving less since 2005, renewables now cheaper, others ARE acting⚖️ Slavery analogy: decades-long progressive fights face backlash during insecurity (French Revolution parallel to Ukraine war)👨‍🏫 Guest Bio:Tom Heap is a regular presenter on BBC One's Countryfile and co-presenter of Radio 4's Rare Earth. He's author of Land Smart: How to Give People and Nature the Space to Thrive and co-creator of the 39 Ways to Save the Planet podcast and book.📚 Recommended Reading:● Land Smart: How to Give People and Nature the Space to Thrive — Tom Heap ● 39 Ways to Save the Planet — Tom Heap & Dr. Tamsin Edwards ● Research on land use efficiency per energy type ● Studies on pluralistic ignorance in climate action💬 Quote Highlights:"We're moving to a world for the first time in human history where we can have more energy while burning less stuff." — Tom Heap"To power inland flights of America on biofuels, you need the entire land area of America." — Tom Heap"66% of people globally support climate action and would give 1% of income—but they believe they're a minority at 40%. This pluralistic ignorance is profoundly disempowering." — Tom Heap"The fact that cleaner energy is now cheaper is a huge deal. That penny is just beginning to drop." — Tom Heap🌐 About WePlanet:WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human progress. Learn more at weplanet.org📥 Join the Conversation💬 Email: podcast@weplanet.org 📩 Subscribe: weplanet.org/podcast 👁️ Follow: @weplanetint

Is nature really as fragile as we've been led to believe? In this conversation, Mark Lynas sits down with veteran environmental journalist Fred Pearce, author of Despite It All: A Handbook for Environmental Hopefuls, to challenge one of environmentalism's core assumptions.Pearce argues that nature isn't fragile—it's resilient, adaptive, and constantly evolving. The evidence shows ecosystems have survived for hundreds of millions of years through asteroid strikes and ice ages, constantly adapting through species turnover and change. Conservation's obsession with protecting "pristine" ecosystems in aspic misses the point: nature needs room to evolve, not to be frozen in time. Novel ecosystems mixing native and invasive species aren't failures—they're nature adapting.This conversation covers the defused population bomb (global fertility now at replacement level), peak stuff (material consumption declining in rich countries), successful technofixes (renewables now cheaper than fossil fuels), and the critical role of indigenous communities in protecting ecosystems. Pearce makes the case for pragmatic optimism: the worst could still happen, but pessimism is for defeatists. From rewilding Europe's wolves to China's authoritarian eco-modernism, the evidence suggests humanity can rise to the challenge—if we embrace innovation over nostalgia.🧠 Topics Discussed:🌿 Why nature is resilient and adaptive, not fragile🦎 Species turnover and novel ecosystems as signs of health👶 The defused population bomb (fertility at 2.3 children globally)📦 Peak stuff: declining material consumption in rich countries🔧 Technofixes that worked: acid rain, ozone layer, renewables🇨🇳 China as authoritarian eco-modernist pioneer🐺 Rewilding success: wolves returning across Europe🌍 Indigenous land management vs. fortress conservation♻️ Circular economy and mining rare metals from waste🚗 Why rich countries are driving less since 2005👨‍🏫 Guest Bio:Fred Pearce is a veteran environmental journalist and author who has covered global environmental issues for over 40 years, primarily for New Scientist. His latest book is Despite It All: A Handbook for Environmental Hopefuls.📚 Recommended Reading:● Despite It All: A Handbook for Environmental Hopefuls — Fred Pearce ● The New Wild — Fred Pearce● Eleanor Ostrom on managing the commons ● Ecomodernist Manifesto💬 Quote Highlights:"The evidence is that nature is resilient, it's adaptive, it evolves. Nature's been going for hundreds of millions of years, whereas we've not." — Fred Pearce "Change isn't bad. Change is actually an example of ecosystems that are functioning well, are doing what they should do, are adapting, are changing, evolving and moving on." — Fred Pearce "The population bomb has been defused. By the second half of this century, we're going to have a stable population." — Fred Pearce"Since about 2005, almost all rich world countries, people have been driving, including the US, which is the car economy on stilts really. Even there, they're driving less." — Fred Pearce "Pessimism is destructive and it narrows your horizons. Optimism allows you to look for potential, look for things that will work, push at the open doors." — Fred Pearce 🌐 About WePlanet:WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human progress. Learn more at weplanet.org📥 Join the Conversation💬 Email: podcast@weplanet.org 📩 Subscribe: weplanet.org/podcast 👁️ Follow: @weplanetint

Is industrial food actually the villain — or one of humanity's greatest achievements? In this provocative episode, Mark Lynas sits down with Jan Dutkiewicz, assistant professor at the Pratt Institute and contributing editor at the New Republic, co-author of Feed the People: Why Industrial Food is Good and How to Make it Even Better.Dutkiewicz challenges the consensus that "the food system is broken" — arguing that industrial production has created unprecedented abundance and eliminated diseases of malnutrition. The real problems aren't industrialization itself, but specific fixable issues: worker exploitation, factory farming's animal welfare crisis, and agricultural lobbies' outsized power. 🧠 Topics Discussed:🏭 Defining industrial food: scale, standards, regulation creating abundance (not just "ultra-processed")🍽️ Why "the food system is broken" is the wrong diagnosis (it's a complex system, not a broken appliance)📚 The food writing industry: Michael Pollan, Wendell Berry, and agrarian romanticism🌾 Wendell Berry as anti-Norman Borlaug: romanticizing pre-industrial famine and malnutrition👶 Child labor realities: agriculture has most injuries and deaths, minimum age exemptions persist🏛️ Agricultural exceptionalism: carve-outs from labor laws, environmental regulations, animal welfare🐖 Manure lagoons, gestation crates, and why artificial insemination gets bestiality exemptions🍖 Factory farming inefficiency: 80%+ calorie loss converting feed to meat (not actually "efficient")🌍 Environmental impact: livestock causes the biggest footprint by far (emissions, land, water, biodiversity)🧬 "Grass-fed" as marketing: labels like "humane" and "free-range" are unregulated buzzwords🧪 Plant-based alternatives and cellular agriculture: the real path forward (not small farms)🚫 Europe banning "burger" and "sausage" labels: livestock lobby blocking competition👨‍🏫 Guest Bio:Jan Dutkiewicz is assistant professor at the Pratt Institute in Brooklyn and contributing editor at the New Republic. He co-authored Feed the People: Why Industrial Food is Good and How to Make it Even Better with Gabriel Rosenberg, offering a data-driven defense of industrial food systems while demanding better labor rights, animal welfare, and environmental regulation.📚 Recommended Reading:● Feed the People: Why Industrial Food is Good and How to Make it Even Better — Jan Dutkiewicz & Gabriel Rosenberg● Michael Pollan — The Omnivore's Dilemma● Wendell Berry — Essays on agrarianism● Bruce Friedrich — Meat (Good Food Institute)● Studies on agricultural exceptionalism and labor laws● Research on livestock environmental impacts💬 Quote Highlights:"Industrial food means food produced using principles of scale, standards, and regulation to create abundance. On balance, that has made the world a better, healthier, more abundant place." — Jan Dutkiewicz"Saying the food system is broken is like saying your house is broken when the air conditioner fails. Identify specific problems and seek specific solutions." — Jan Dutkiewicz"The Dust Bowl — perhaps America's greatest ecological disaster — was caused by poor land management by small-scale family farmers before agriculture was industrialized." — Jan Dutkiewicz"Every call to produce everything from scratch is implicitly a call for more unpaid labor by women in the household." — Jan Dutkiewicz"If we abolished factory farms: 99% less chicken, 97% less pork, 67% less beef. We'd all be vegetarian overnight." — Jan Dutkiewicz"8 out of 10 worst-paid jobs in America are in food. The people getting results aren't food writers — they're food workers themselves." — Jan Dutkiewicz🌐 About WePlanet:WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human progress. Learn more at weplanet.org📥 Join the Conversation💬 Email: podcast@weplanet.org 📩 Subscribe: weplanet.org/podcast 👁️ Follow: @weplanetint

Can technology save us from environmental collapse — or is it just another false promise? In this epic conversation, Mark Lynas sits down with Adam Dorr, Director of Research at RethinkX and author of The Degrowth Delusion, to explore four simultaneous technological revolutions reshaping our world: energy (solar, wind, batteries), transportation (EVs and autonomous vehicles), food (precision fermentation), and labor (AI).🧠 Topics Discussed:💡 Technology as "practical knowledge" and how it compounds autocatalytically (self-accelerating)📈 S-curve adoption and X-curve decline: Why disruptions happen in 15-20 years, not centuries⚡ Solar, wind, batteries (SWB): Now the cheapest electricity ever, with near-zero marginal cost🌞 Why massive solar overbuilding beats battery storage (the Clean Energy U-curve)📦 Modularity advantage: Solar/batteries work from wristwatches to gigawatt plants🔌 From scarcity to super-abundance: Rethinking efficiency as "use what's available" not "use less"🚗 EVs and autonomous vehicles: Battery breakthroughs and transportation-as-a-service🥩 Precision fermentation and cellular agriculture: 10-100x more efficient than animal farming🏛️ Political resistance: GMO bans, cellular meat bans, and horseshoe theory opposition🤖 The fourth disruption: AI replacing cognitive, operator, and general human labor💼 Post-labor economics: Universal basic income, luxury services, and navigating abundance🌍 Why abundance makes allocation easier than scarcity (and nobody has all the answers yet)⚛️ AI existential risk vs opportunity: Superintelligence as doom or salvation?🌟 Star Trek vs Terminator: Which future will we choose?👨‍🏫 Guest Bio:Adam Dorr is Director of Research at RethinkX, a nonprofit think tank analyzing technology disruption. He authored The Degrowth Delusion: Dispelling One of History's Truly Terrible Ideas and researches energy, food, transportation, and labor disruption. He's also a science fiction author exploring superintelligence and humanity's cosmic future.📚 Recommended Reading & Resources:● The Degrowth Delusion — Adam Dorr● RethinkX research reports⁠ https://www.rethinkx.com⁠● Clayton Christensen — The Innovator's Dilemma● Tony Seba and disruption theory⁠ https://tonyseba.com⁠● Mark Lynas — Six Degrees: Our Future on a Hotter Planet⁠ https://www.marklynas.org/books/six-degrees/⁠💬 Quote Highlights:"Life is unequivocally better on almost every indicator you care to measure than it was historically — life expectancy, infant mortality, literacy, everything down the line." — Adam Dorr"The more energy we have available, the more abundant energy is, the more useful things we can do to garner prosperity." — Adam Dorr"My team has documented more than 1,700 instances of new technologies spreading like wildfire once they catch — it only takes 15 to 20 years." — Adam Dorr"Solar panels just sit there and happily make electricity for decades at near zero marginal cost. They really are a marvelous technology." — Adam Dorr"We're headed into a world of fantastic abundance. That means hugely expanding our capacity to restore ecologies we've damaged." — Adam Dorr"Our environmental issues are not an epic struggle of good versus evil. They are just problems. And problems are solvable with the right tools. Now for the first time in history, we finally have the tools we need." — Adam Dorr🌐 About WePlanet:WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human progress. Learn more at weplanet.org📥 Join the Conversation💬 Feedback or questions? Email: podcast@weplanet.org📩 Subscribe to new episodes: weplanet.org/podcast👁️ Follow us on X/Twitter: @weplanetint

Can we really solve climate change just by fixing energy — and ignore food? In this episode of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, Mark Lynas sits down with Bruce Friedrich, founder and President of the Good Food Institute, to tackle Bad Idea #37: “Solving energy is enough for solving climate.”Bruce argues that focusing exclusively on decarbonising energy while ignoring food systems is one of the biggest blind spots in climate policy. From antibiotic resistance and zoonotic disease to geopolitics, national security, and the S-curve of technological change, this conversation makes the case that the protein transition must stand alongside the energy transition if we’re serious about saving the planet.🧠 Topics Discussed: ● ⚡ Why decarbonising energy alone only solves about half the climate problem ● 🍖 Global meat demand: why “eat less meat” has never worked ● 🌍 Land use, deforestation, and rewilding at planetary scale ● 🧫 Cultivated meat, fermentation, and next-generation plant proteins ● 📉 The inefficiency of feeding crops to animals ● 🦠 Antibiotic resistance and industrial animal agriculture ● 🦆 Pandemic risk and zoonotic spillover from livestock systems ● 🐟 Cultivated seafood and the future of ocean recovery ● 📈 The protein S-curve and lessons from solar, EVs, and the internet ● 🏛️ Why government support matters — and where it’s already happening ● 🇨🇳🇮🇳 China, India, and the geopolitics of alternative proteins● 🌱 Farmers, land sparing, and the future of agriculture ● 🌎 Food security, resilience, and feeding a growing world👨‍🏫 Guest Bio:Bruce Friedrich is the founder and President of the Good Food Institute (GFI), a global non-profit accelerating the transition to alternative proteins. He has worked for more than three decades at the intersection of food, climate, and innovation. Bruce is the author of Meat: How the Next Agricultural Revolution Will Transform Humanity’s Favorite Food and Our Future, and a leading global advocate for plant-based, fermentation-derived, and cultivated meat as climate, biodiversity, and food-security solutions.📚 Recommended Reading & Resources: ● Meat: How the Next Agricultural Revolution Will Transform Humanity’s Favorite Food and Our Future ● Good Food Institute● GFI Europe ● SYSTEMIQ & Good Food Institute – The Protein Transition: Pathways to Lower Climate, Land, and Water Impacts● What’s Cooking? (UNEP alternative proteins report)● Livestock’s Long Shadow (FAO) ● World Resources Institute: Creating a Sustainable Food Future● IIASA land-use & food systems research● Our World in Data: Meat and dairy production ● UNEP & ILRI: Preventing the Next Pandemic 💬 Quote Highlights:“Focusing on energy alone while ignoring food is like lifting your foot off the accelerator — but keeping it on the highway to hell.” “If alternative proteins reach 50%, we could free more land than the entire Amazon rainforest.” “People aren’t going to give up meat — so we need to change how meat is made.” “This isn’t a moral problem. It’s a science and engineering problem.” “The protein transition is one of the most tractable climate solutions we have.”🌐 About WePlanet:WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human well-being. Learn more at https://weplanet.org📥 Join the Conversation: 💬 Feedback or questions? Email: podcast@weplanet.org 📩 Subscribe to new episodes: https://weplanet.org/podcast 👁️ Follow us on X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/weplanetint

Is the 1.5°C temperature target helping or hindering climate action? In this episode of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, Mark Lynas sits down with his co-authors Kwesi Quagraine (climate scientist at NCAR) and Erle Ellis (professor at University of Maryland Baltimore County) to discuss their groundbreaking new paper published in Nature that proposes a complete rethinking of how we measure climate progress.The team argues that global average temperature targets — the organizing principle of climate policy since Paris 2015 — are intangible, unactionable, and increasingly counterproductive now that we've essentially crossed the 1.5°C threshold. Instead, they propose the Clean Energy Shift (CES) — a simple, measurable metric that tracks how fast clean energy is displacing fossil fuels in real time.🧠 Topics Discussed: 🌡️ Why global average temperature targets are intangible and don't translate into clear policy actions🔢 The problem with "1.5 to stay alive": What happens when you cross a threshold framed as a limit of safety?📊 Introducing the Clean Energy Shift (CES): Growth rate of clean energy minus growth rate of total energy demand🔌 Why clean energy is now the cheapest option in most developing countries🌍 How regional climate impacts differ dramatically from global average temperature (Africa vs Europe vs small islands)🎯 Why "percent clean energy" should replace temperature as our north star metric (aiming for 100%)📉 The challenge of measuring energy: Primary vs useful energy, and why efficiency gains complicate the numbers⚡ Heat pumps, electric vehicles, and electrification: 💡 Why clean energy shift creates positive competition between countries (not just climate guilt)🗳️ Why clean energy targets need to enter UNFCCC discussions alongside temperature goals🔬 The data challenge: Why IEA and others need to release standardized, open-access energy data📐 The paradox of our time: Passing "safety limits" while developing real solutions🔭 The narrative shift from "avoid catastrophe" to "build clean energy abundance"👨‍🏫 Guest Bios:Kwesi Quagraine is a climate scientist at NCAR (National Center for Atmospheric Research) and former senior lecturer at the University of Cape Coast, Ghana, where he taught physics, meteorology, and atmospheric science. Originally from Ghana, Kwesi brings vital perspectives on how climate policy impacts developing nations and expertise in climate modeling, including solar radiation management research.Erle Ellis is a professor of geography and environmental systems at the University of Maryland Baltimore County. His work with the United Nations Development Program's Human Development Report focuses on aspirational indicators for making a better future. Erle has spent decades studying global environmental change and teaching students how human societies interact with planetary systems.📚 Recommended Reading & Resources:● The Clean Energy Shift paper — Quagraine, Ellis, Lynas et al. (Nature, 2025) https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-026-00246-z● Michael Liebreich — "The Pragmatic Climate Reset" essay Part 1 / Part 2● EMBER energy data and analysis https://ember-climate.org● International Energy Agency (IEA) energy statistics https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics● Mark Lynas — Six Degrees: Our Future on a Hotter Planet https://www.marklynas.org/books/six-degrees/● WMO (World Meteorological Organization) temperature data https://wmo.int/topics/climate● Paris Agreement (2015) — text and NDC framework https://unfccc.int/process-and-meetings/the-paris-agreement🌐 About WePlanet:WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human progress. Learn more at weplanet.org📥 Join the Conversation💬 Feedback or questions? Email: podcast@weplanet.org📩 Subscribe to new episodes: weplanet.org/podcast👁️ Follow us on X/Twitter: @weplanetint

Is “degrowth” a noble environmental solution — or one of history’s truly terrible ideas? In this episode of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, Mark Lynas sits down with Adam Dorr, Director of Research at RethinkX and author of The Degrowth Delusion: Dispelling One of History’s Truly Terrible Ideas.Dorr argues that degrowth — the increasingly popular environmental movement calling for economic contraction — meets every criterion of a “Truly Terrible Idea”: it sounds virtuous, promises the moon, spreads easily, appeals especially to the young, and catastrophically backfires when implemented.Mark and Adam explore why degrowth misunderstands economic growth itself, why material “stuff” is not the same as value, how technological progress consistently decouples prosperity from environmental harm, and why shrinking the global economy could never solve climate change — and would instead cause mass deprivation, collapse, and tyranny.If you’ve ever heard the phrase “you can’t have infinite growth on a finite planet,” this conversation will challenge your assumptions. And it lays the groundwork for next episode’s deep dive into the optimistic, data-driven alternative: a future where humanity and nature both thrive.🧠 Topics Discussed:💡 What makes an idea a “Truly Terrible Idea” (TTI) — and why degrowth qualifies🌍 Why degrowth’s core logic (“too many people consuming too much”) is seductive but false📉 Why “infinite growth on a finite planet” misunderstands value, not stuff🐎 How technological progress (e.g., cars replacing horses, digital replacing film) eliminates old harms🔌 Why degrowth would block the very innovations (solar, EVs, biotech) that solve environmental problems🔥 The “house on fire” analogy: why reducing emissions 50% still leaves the house burning📉 GDP vs wellbeing: is economic growth actually correlated with human development?🌐 Why degrowth is a luxury belief seldom embraced by people who’ve experienced real poverty😡 The role of resentment, pessimism and misanthropy in the appeal of degrowth🏛️ Why degrowth requires authoritarian state control and cannot be implemented democratically🤝 The win–win path: how technology enables prosperity and ecological restoration🔭 Why environmentalism desperately needs a credible, optimistic, tech-enabled vision of the future👨‍🏫 Guest Bio:Adam Dorr is the Director of Research at RethinkX, a nonprofit think tank analyzing how new technologies disrupt existing systems. He is the lead author of The Degrowth Delusion, a sweeping critique of degrowth ideology and a roadmap for a technologically enabled, sustainable future. Dorr’s work spans energy, food, transportation, and long-term civilizational pathways.📚 Recommended Reading & Resources: ● The Degrowth Delusion — Adam Dorr ● RethinkX research reports (energy, food, transport disruptions) ● Studies on GDP vs Human Development Index (UNDP) ● The Limits to Growth: Malthus and the Classical Economists ● Steven Pinker — Enlightenment Now ● Literature on zero-sum vs non-zero-sum thinking💬 Quote Highlights:“Truly terrible ideas don’t die out on their own — they must be actively refuted.” — Adam Dorr“It’s not that we need to do less — it’s that we need to do better.” — Adam Dorr“There is no sustainable amount of fire. Reducing emissions by half still leaves your house burning.” — Adam Dorr“Poverty is not virtuous. It is not something to aspire to. To believe otherwise is a failure of compassion.” — Adam Dorr“Technology is the only way we have a rational, data-driven basis for optimism.” — Adam Dorr🌐 About WePlanet:WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human progress. Learn more at weplanet.org📥 Join the Conversation💬 Feedback or questions? Email: podcast@weplanet.org📩 Subscribe to new episodes: weplanet.org/podcast 👁️ Follow us on X/Twitter: @weplanetint

Welcome to season three of Saving The World From BAD IDEASBad Idea #35: ‘THIS is the Future’ Why Forecasts Fail – with David Wallace-WellsIn the season three opener of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, Mark Lynas sits down with David Wallace-Wells, New York Times columnist and author of The Uninhabitable Earth, to tackle a deceptively simple bad idea: the belief that we can predict the future with confidence.David explains how even sophisticated models can be wildly sensitive to small assumptions, drawing on examples from climate economics and the pandemic era, when many expert forecasts failed to anticipate outcomes even a couple of weeks ahead. The conversation moves from climate targets and energy transitions to the psychology of “normalisation”, the social aftershocks of COVID, and the way politics can swing dramatically with small changes in public mood.The result is a wide-ranging, clear-eyed discussion about uncertainty, risk, and how to stay serious about climate and democracy without pretending the future comes with a reliable timetable.🧠 Topics Discussed: Why long-range climate and economic modelling can hinge on fragile assumptionsWhat COVID forecasting revealed about the limits of near-term predictionHow humility about uncertainty gets weaponised by those who want inactionDavid’s shift since The Uninhabitable Earth: less apocalyptic certainty, more systems thinkingFaster-than-expected clean energy rollout, and the stubborn unknowns around fossil retirement“Normalisation” as a human superpower, and as a moral failure when disasters fade from viewThe post-pandemic social hangover: loss of trust, atomisation, and the politics of public healthVaccine backlash, the contradictions inside “anti-establishment” health coalitions, and what might endureWhy the “world is drifting inexorably right” narrative misses how messy politics really isA cautious look toward 2050: warming, geopolitics, AI hype cycles, and nuclear risk👩‍🏫 Guest Bio:David Wallace-Wells is a journalist, writer, and weekly columnist at The New York Times. He rose to global prominence with his 2017 essay “The Uninhabitable Earth”, later expanded into the bestselling book The Uninhabitable Earth: Life After Warming. His work spans climate change, politics, and the social consequences of crisis, including the COVID-19 pandemic.David Wallace-Wells, The Uninhabitable Earth: Life After Warming (Penguin Random House)David Wallace-Wells, “After Climate Alarmism” (New York Magazine, 2021)Martin L. Weitzman, “Fat-Tailed Uncertainty in the Economics of Catastrophic Climate Change” (Review of Environmental Economics and Policy)💬 Quote Highlights:“Everything we think we know about where we’re heading is bedevilled by epistemic problems.” David Wallace Wells“The future is more manageable than what we feared, though the system is still full of unknowns.” David Wallace Wells“We normalise a lot, and that will govern a lot of our climate future.” David Wallace Wells“Every small shift in the vibes feels permanent, until a few weeks later it doesn’t.” David Wallace Wells“Treating one percent per year as a precise forecast feels abstracted from how decisions actually get made.”David Wallace Wells🌐 About WePlanet: WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement advancing bold, evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and prosperity. We challenge bad ideas and champion better ones, grounded in human wellbeing and ecological restoration. Learn more at weplanet.org.📥 Join the ConversationEmail: podcast@weplanet.orgSubscribe: weplanet.org/podcastFollow on X: @WePlanetInt

Is nuclear power too slow, too expensive, or too essential to ignore? In this episode of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, Mark Lynas sits down with Baroness Bryony Worthington — crossbench peer, climate policy architect, and co-host of the Cleaning Up podcast — to take on Bad Idea #34: “Nuclear? No Thanks.”🧠 Topics Discussed: ● ⚛️ Why nuclear costs haven’t fallen — and why China may change that ● 🇫🇷 What France got right (and wrong) in its Mesmer-era nuclear buildout ● 🇨🇳 China’s nuclear ecosystem: HTRs, molten salts, SMRs, and industrial policy ● 🧱 Why huge gigawatt-scale reactors fail — and when modularity matters ● 🌡️ Heat: the forgotten one-third of global energy that renewables struggle to replace ● 🇺🇸 The growing bipartisan nuclear consensus in the U.S. ● 🔥 Geothermal, CSP, and advanced drilling as zero-carbon heat sources ● 👾 AI and data centres: the quiet driver of surging electricity demand ● 🧪 Thorium, molten salt reactors, and the cult of “better nuclear” ● ♻️ Nuclear waste, fuel recycling, plutonium, and the politics of the NRC ● 🛡️ Risk, radiophobia, and why safety rules became so irrational ● 🌍 Authoritarianism, industrial strategy, and what China’s system gets right (and wrong)👩‍🏫 Guest Bio: Baroness Bryony Worthington is a crossbench member of the UK House of Lords and one of Britain’s most respected climate policy thinkers. She was a lead author of the UK’s Climate Change Act, co-founded the children’s environmental charity Sandbag, and serves as co-host of the global energy podcast Cleaning Up with Michael Liebreich. Bryony currently leads work on clean industrial transitions, including repowering coal infrastructure with zero-carbon heat from nuclear, geothermal, and advanced solar technologies.📚 Recommended Reading & Resources ● Cleaning Up podcast – https://www.cleaningup.live ● BloombergNEF – https://about.bnef.com ● Kairos Power (advanced reactors) – https://kairospower.com ● Oklo (fast microreactors) – https://www.oklo.com ● TerraPower (Natrium reactor) – https://www.terrapower.com ● High-temperature gas-cooled reactors (HTR info) – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-temperature_gas-cooled_reactor ● Molten salt reactor background – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molten-salt_reactor ● Tsinghua University Institute of Nuclear and New Energy Technology – https://www.inet.tsinghua.edu.cn/ineten/ ● Repower Initiative – https://www.repower.world/ ● Jamie Beard on geothermal – https://www.texasgeo.org ● IAEA on nuclear fuel recycling – https://www.iaea.org/topics/spent-fuel-management  ● Waste Not (WePlanet nuclear fuel recycling report) – https://www.weplanet.org/reports/waste-not ● China’s solar overcapacity & exports – https://ourworldindata.org/renewable-energy ● Our World in Data: electricity mix – https://ourworldindata.org/electricity-mix 💬 Quote Highlights:“Once you build nuclear, you never regret it — it just quietly produces heat and power for 80 years.” “China has already built almost everything we were going to tell them to try.” “Heat is a third of global energy. Batteries can’t solve that. Nuclear can.” “Radiation is everywhere — from rocks, from the sun, from your partner in bed. We’ve regulated nuclear as if none of this exists.” “I’m not pro-nuclear everywhere. I’m pro-nuclear where it makes the transition faster.” “I’m a pro-humanity environmentalist. Nuclear is part of that story.”🌐 About WePlanet: WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human well-being. Learn more at https://weplanet.org📥 Join the Conversation 💬 Feedback or questions? Email: podcast@weplanet.org 📩 Subscribe to new episodes: https://weplanet.org/podcast 👁️ Follow us on X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/weplanetint

🔍 Episode Summary:Is the food industry slowly killing us? Is processing of food the problem? Do we really need personalized nutrition? In this episode of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, Mark Lynas sits down with Professor Sarah Berry — nutritional scientist and Chief Scientist at ZOE — to take on Bad Idea #33: “Ultra Processed Foods are killing us”From the gut microbiome to micronutrients, ultra-processed foods, polyphenols, insulin resistance, fats, carbs, and the myth of the “perfect diet,” Sarah explains why individuals respond so differently to the same foods — and why population-level dietary guidelines often fail to deliver.They dig into the largest personalised nutrition study in the world, break down the science behind metabolic health, explore why the food environment keeps pushing us toward unhealthy choices, and examine how AI, big data, and microbiome analysis could revolutionise how we think about food.🧠 Topics Discussed: ● 🧬 Why one-size-fits-all nutrition fails ● 🍽️ What personalised nutrition actually means (and doesn’t mean) ● 🧪 The PREDICT studies — the world’s largest personalised nutrition programme ● 🦠 Gut microbiome diversity: why it matters ● 🔬 Ultra-processed food: what the science really shows ● 🧁 Why sugar behaves differently in different bodies ● 🧂 Salt, fats, omega-3s, fibre, polyphenols — a practical breakdown ● 🧠 Why “calories in, calories out” isn’t enough ● 🏥 Why metabolic health is declining (and what to do about it) ● 🧘 How sleep, stress, and exercise influence food responses ● 🤖 How AI and microbiome data could shape the future of nutrition👩‍🏫 Guest Bio: Professor Sarah Berry is a nutritional scientist at King’s College London and the Chief Scientist at ZOE, where she leads research on personalised nutrition, metabolic health, and the gut microbiome. She is one of the lead scientists behind the PREDICT studies — the world’s largest programme looking at individual responses to food — and has authored more than 200 peer-reviewed publications. Sarah is a leading communicator on evidence-based nutrition and co-hosts the ZOE Science & Nutrition podcast.📚 Recommended Reading & Resources ● ZOE personalised nutrition programme – https://joinzoe.com ● PREDICT 1 study – https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0934-0 ● Professor Sarah Berry (King’s College London profile) – https://www.kcl.ac.uk/people/sarah-berry ● ZOE Science & Nutrition podcast – https://zoe.com/learn/podcast ● Tim Spector’s work on the microbiome – https://www.tim-spector.co.uk ● Ultra-processed foods overview (WHO) – https://www.foodnavigator.com/Article/2025/06/19/who-ultra-processed-food-guidance/ ● Our World in Data: Diet & Obesity – https://ourworldindata.org/diet-compositions ● Meta-analysis on glycaemic variability & health – https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31220802 ● The Nurses Health Study – https://nurseshealthstudy.org/ ● Gut microbiome science summary (Microbiome Journal) – https://microbiomejournal.biomedcentral.com💬 Quote Highlights:“There is no perfect diet — there is only the best diet for you.” — Sarah Berry “Two people eating the same muffin can have completely opposite metabolic responses.” — Sarah Berry “We’ve been telling people what to eat for decades. It hasn’t worked. We need a new approach.” — Sarah Berry “Ultra-processed doesn’t always mean unhealthy — but most of what’s on shelves today definitely is.” — Sarah Berry “We cannot separate nutrition from sleep, stress, and movement. They’re part of the same system.” — Sarah Berry🌐 About WePlanet: WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human well-being. Learn more at https://www.weplanet.org📥 Join the Conversation 💬 Feedback or questions? Email: podcast@weplanet.org 📩 Subscribe to new episodes: https://weplanet.org/podcast 👁️ Follow us on X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/weplanetint

Is a world powered by clean energy possible without nuclear power? In this episode of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, Mark Lynas sits down with Julia Pyke, Managing Director of Sizewell C, to challenge Bad Idea #32: “We don’t need nuclear.”From financing and grid stability to biodiversity and public opinion, Julia explains why nuclear is essential to reaching net zero — and why the UK’s new fleet of reactors could reduce consumer bills, not raise them. They discuss the economics of megaprojects, how to avoid first-of-a-kind overruns, the role of heat in decarbonisation, small modular reactors, and how the Sizewell C project is reshaping both the local community and the nuclear industry itself.Whether you’re a nuclear skeptic or advocate, this episode offers a rare, detailed look inside one of Europe’s biggest clean-energy projects.🧠 Topics Discussed: ● ⚛️ Bad Idea #32: “We don’t need nuclear” ● 🏗️ Why Hinkley Point C cost overruns won’t repeat at Sizewell C ● 🔧 “7,000 design changes” — and why copying Hinkley avoids them ● ⚡ How nuclear cuts system-wide grid costs ● 💸 The Regulated Asset Base (RAB) model explained simply● 🏭 Why the UK needs firm, low-carbon power alongside renewables ● 🇨🇳 China’s nuclear programme and the myth of “negative learning” ● 🌳 How Sizewell C aims to be nature positive ● 🐦 Engagement with RSPB, Wildlife Trusts & Natural England ● 👩‍🔧 Women in nuclear — and transforming the industry’s diversity ● 🏗️ Local jobs, apprenticeships, and long-term economic benefits ● ♨️ Using nuclear heat for direct air capture and industry ● 🌬️ Is SMR hype overshadowing big reactors? ● 🎶 The Sizewell Choir: wellbeing, culture, and community👩‍🏫 Guest Bio: Julia Pyke is the Managing Director of Sizewell C, the UK’s next large-scale nuclear power station. A former lawyer who helped finance Hinkley Point C, she now leads one of Europe’s biggest clean-energy projects. Julia specialises in nuclear financing, infrastructure delivery, and public communication.📚 Recommended Reading & Resources: ● Electricity Distribution Networks study: government responsehttps://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electricity-distribution-networks-study-government-response  ● Aurora Energy Research (national system modelling) https://auroraer.com ● UK Government: Regulated Asset Base (RAB) model explainerhttps://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g ● Hinkley Point C project overview https://www.edfenergy.com/energy/nuclear-new-build-projects/hinkley-point-c ● Rolls-Royce SMR Programme https://www.rolls-royce-smr.com/ ● Natural England – Tony Juniper https://naturalengland.blog.gov.uk/about-natural-england/ ● Suffolk Wildlife Trust https://www.suffolkwildlifetrust.org/ ● RSPB (Royal Society for the Protection of Birds) https://www.rspb.org.uk/ 💬 Quote Highlights:“The thing that stops nuclear being built isn’t engineering — it’s financing.” — Julia Pyke “Counterintuitive as it seems, building Sizewell C reduces consumer bills.” “If we could drop Sizewell C into place without construction impacts, there’d be almost no opposition.” “Nuclear isn’t in conflict with renewables. It makes them cheaper.” “If nuclear had been built out as planned in the 1980s, we wouldn’t have global warming.” “We need nuclear that looks like the society it serves — not just white men.” “Big infrastructure can be nature positive.”🌐 About WePlanet: WePlanet is a global science and citizen movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature and human flourishing. Learn more: https://weplanet.org📥 Join the Conversation 💬 Feedback or questions? Email: podcast@weplanet.org 📩 Subscribe to new episodes: https://weplanet.org/podcast 👁️ Follow us on X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/weplanetint

Is China secretly saving the world from climate catastrophe? In this episode of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, Mark Lynas is joined by Lauri Myllyvirta, Lead Analyst and Co-Founder of the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air (CREA), to examine Bad Idea #31: “Climate crisis? It’s China that’s the problem!”As one of the world’s most trusted analysts on China’s energy system, Lauri explains why this narrative is outdated — and how China’s clean-energy boom has become the most important climate story on the planet.They dig into China’s extraordinary expansion of solar, wind, batteries, EVs and long-distance transmission lines; the politics behind continued coal-plant construction; the country’s dramatic air-pollution turnaround; and the global consequences if China’s emissions really have peaked.🧠 Topics Discussed: ● 🔥 The “bad idea”: China will always burn more coal ● 📉 Why China’s CO₂ emissions have been stable or declining for 18 months ● ☀️ The solar boom: 100 solar panels installed per second ● ⚡ China’s new clean electricity each year = powering the UK twice ● 🏭 Why coal plants are still being built — and why many may sit idle ● 🪫 Battery deployment hitting 100 GW, transforming grid flexibility ● 🚗 EVs: 50% of new car sales and eating into China’s oil demand ● 🛻 The rise of electric heavy trucks and buses ● 🌬️ Wind, solar and nuclear in China’s power mix ● 🌁 China’s dramatic air-quality turnaround — and the global warming side-effects ● 🌎 Why China’s decarbonisation is now shaping global energy trends ● 🐉 Geopolitics: US decline, China’s clean-tech dominance ● 📊 Data transparency in China and how Lauri tracks the numbers ● 🔋 Solar + batteries as the cheapest power in world history👨‍🏫 Guest Bio:Lauri Myllyvirta is the Lead Analyst and Co-Founder of the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air (CREA). A globally respected expert on China’s energy system, he publishes widely in international media and frequently contributes analysis to Carbon Brief. Lauri previously worked with Greenpeace and has over a decade of experience tracking air-pollution, fossil-fuel and clean-energy trends across Asia. More about Lauri’s work: ● CREA – https://energyandcleanair.org/ ● Lauri on Carbon Brief – https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-chinas-co2-emissions-have-now-been-flat-or-falling-for-18-months/ 📚 Recommended Reading & Resources: ● CREA – China emissions & energy analysis – https://energyandcleanair.org/ ● Lauri’s latest China emissions report – https://www.energyconnects.com/news/renewables/2025/november/china-s-september-emissions-drop-keeps-annual-decline-in-play/ ● Carbon Brief: China energy & climate coverage – https://www.carbonbrief.org/category/china/ ● Bloomberg: China’s clean-energy boom – https://www.bloomberg.com/green ● IEA World Energy Outlook – https://www.iea.org/weo ● China solar deployment data (NEA) – http://www.nea.gov.cn/ ● China EV market overview (CPCA) – https://www.cpcaauto.com/ 💬 Quote Highlights:“China’s clean-energy boom is the biggest climate story in the world right now.” — Lauri Myllyvirta “Solar additions this year alone can power the entire UK — twice.” “Electric cars in China are already cutting into oil demand.” “China has the ability to peak emissions now — the question is political, not technical.” “Air pollution improved faster in China than anyone predicted — and it shows what fast action looks like.” “China didn’t just decarbonise itself — it made clean energy cheap for the whole world.”🌐 About WePlanet: WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human development. Learn more at https://weplanet.org📥 Join the Conversation 💬 Feedback or questions? Email: podcast@weplanet.org 📩 Subscribe to new episodes: https://weplanet.org/podcast 👁️ Follow us on Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/weplanetint 

Could democracy really die in America? In this episode of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, Mark Lynas speaks with Susan Stokes, Professor of Political Science at the University of Chicago and Director of the Chicago Center on Democracy, to challenge Bad Idea #30: “It can’t happen here.”Drawing on her acclaimed book The Backsliders: Why Leaders Undermine Their Own Democracies, Stokes reveals the playbook that elected leaders use to quietly erode democracy from within — the same tactics that have turned Hungary, Turkey, and Venezuela into hybrid autocracies. She and Mark discuss the United States’ alarming slide under Trump’s second term, the global rise of “backsliders,” and why inequality may be the hidden fuel of modern authoritarianism.This conversation exposes the real risks facing democratic societies — and what can still be done to save them.🧠 Topics Discussed: ● ⚖️ The Bad Idea: “It can’t happen here” — and why it already is ● 🧱 The authoritarian playbook: courts, press, civil society, universities, and elections ● 🌀 “Firehose authoritarianism” — how chaos itself becomes a political tool ● 📉 Project 2025 and the new blueprint for executive overreach ● 🧮 How Bright Line Watch measures democratic decline ● 💰 The root cause: why inequality erodes democratic resilience ● 🌍 Why backsliding happens in both rich and poor countries ● 🧠 Right-wing ethno-nationalism vs. left populism — different faces, same logic ● 🎓 Why the educated elite have lost touch with working-class voters ● 🗳️ What Sweden and Brazil can teach us about democratic survival ● 🔮 Can the U.S. still hold a free election — or is this democracy’s last chapter?👩‍🏫 Guest Bio: Susan Stokes is the Tiffany and Margaret Blake Distinguished Service Professor of Political Science at the University of Chicago, where she directs the Chicago Center on Democracy. Her work focuses on democratic accountability, political participation, and comparative politics.She is the author of The Backsliders: Why Leaders Undermine Their Own Democracies (Princeton University Press, 2024), which explains how elected leaders across the world — from the U.S. to Hungary to India — erode democracy from within. Stokes also co-founded Bright Line Watch, a project monitoring the health of American democracy through expert and public surveys.📚 Recommended Reading & Resources: ● The Backsliders: Why Leaders Undermine Their Own Democracies – Susan C. Stokes ● Bright Line Watch – Ongoing surveys tracking the state of U.S. democracy ● Chicago Center on Democracy – University of Chicago research initiative ● The Precipice – Toby Ord ● Freedom House: Nations in Transit – Annual global democracy report ● V-Dem Institute – Democracy indices and data ● Project 2025 – The conservative blueprint shaping U.S. governance💬 Quote Highlights:“We live in a country where the government acts like an autocracy — and the people still act like it’s a democracy.” — Susan Stokes “Autocracy doesn’t arrive with a coup. It arrives through the ballot box.” “Income inequality is democracy’s most powerful poison.” “The courts, the press, the universities — they’re always the first targets.” “Democracy dies not with a bang, but with a thousand executive orders.” “If you invest in reducing inequality, you’re investing in democratic survival.”🌐 About WePlanet: WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human development. Learn more at https://weplanet.org📥 Join the Conversation 💬 Feedback or questions? Email: podcast@weplanet.org 📩 Subscribe to new episodes: https://weplanet.org/podcast 👁️ Follow us on Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/weplanetint

Is net zero possible — and what’s really holding us back? In this second part of his conversation with Mark Lynas, clean energy expert Michael Liebreich dives deep into the technologies, policies, and economics of the energy transition. Together they explore Bad Idea #29: “The Green transition is failing.”Liebreich, founder of Bloomberg New Energy Finance and host of the Cleaning Up podcast, challenges magical thinking in climate policy and explains why achieving net zero demands realism, not slogans. From grid build-out and nuclear revival to hydrogen hype and global energy justice, this episode tackles the messy, pragmatic side of decarbonisation — and why optimism grounded in physics, finance, and fairness is our best bet for a sustainable future.🧠 Topics Discussed:● ⚡ The myth of an easy energy transition ● 🌍 Global energy inequality and why the Global South matters ● ☢️ The comeback of nuclear and the politics of fear ● 🔋 The limits of batteries and why grids need diversity ● 🌬️ Wind, solar, and the real bottlenecks of scaling clean power ● 🛢️ Fossil fuel phase-out: economics vs. ideology ● 🧮 The physics of net zero and why “energy realism” matters ● 💰 How finance, markets, and policy must align for decarbonisation ● 🚀 Why clean energy innovation — not austerity — is the path forward👨‍🏫 Guest Bio:Michael Liebreich is the founder of Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF), a leading provider of strategic research on the energy transition, and host of the influential podcast Cleaning Up. A former Olympic skier, investor, and advisor to the UK government on clean growth, Liebreich is known for his pragmatic, data-driven approach to climate and energy issues. Follow him on X/Twitter: @MLiebreich📚 Recommended Reading & Resources:● Bloomberg New Energy Finance – Market intelligence on the global energy transition ● Cleaning Up Podcast – Conversations with leaders in clean energy and climate policy ● The Liebreich Lecture (London Climate Week) – Annual keynote on energy and sustainability ● Mission Innovation – International initiative to accelerate clean energy innovation ● International Energy Agency (IEA) Net Zero Roadmap – Data and analysis on pathways to global net zero ● WePlanet – Global citizen movement advocating evidence-based solutions for climate and development💬 Quote Highlights:“Physics doesn’t negotiate. You can’t get to net zero by passing a law — you have to build stuff.” — Michael Liebreich“The energy transition is happening, but it’s not happening fast enough — and not fairly enough.” — Michael Liebreich“We need to be hard-headed about technology, but soft-hearted about people.” — Michael Liebreich🌐 About WePlanet:WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human development.📥 Join the Conversation:💬 Feedback or questions? Email: podcast@weplanet.org 📩 Subscribe to new episodes: weplanet.org/podcast 👁️ Follow us on X/Twitter: @weplanetint

Are sharks really the monsters we’ve been taught to fear — or the ocean’s misunderstood guardians? In this episode, Mark Lynas sits down with Arzucan “Zuzu” Askin, National Geographic Explorer, conservation scientist, and co-founder of Miyaru NGO, to take on Bad Idea #28: “Jaws - aka sharks are scary”From diving daily with tiger sharks in the Maldives to pioneering the world’s first free-swimming shark ultrasounds, Zuzu shares what it’s really like to live and work among these ancient predators — and why our fear of them is one of conservation’s biggest barriers. 🧠 Topics Discussed: ● 🦈 The myth of the “man-eater”: why sharks aren’t scary, they’re essential ● 🎬 Jaws and how a single movie reshaped global shark perceptions ●🏝️ How the Maldives became the “Galápagos of the Indian Ocean” for sharks ● 🌊 The 2010 Maldives shark sanctuary — and how it saved populations ● 🤰 “Mama Shark”: the world’s first free-swimming ultrasound scans of tiger sharks ● 👩‍🔬 Shark pregnancies and live births — motherhood in the deep ● ⚖️ The fight to stop the return of shark fishing in the Maldives ● 🧴 Hidden sharks: in cosmetics, pet food, and even vaccines● 🧠 How sharks inspire biomedical and design innovation● 🐋 Collaborating with Dr. Sylvia Earle and Tongan scientists on whale research ● 🧩 What individuals can do to protect sharks — from banning fins to consumer choices👩‍🏫 Guest Bio: Arzucan “Zuzu” Askin is a conservation scientist, diver, and National Geographic Explorer based in the Maldives. She co-founded Miyaru NGO, the country’s first national-level shark conservation organisation, dedicated to protecting predatory shark species through research, education, and community engagement. Zuzu led the groundbreaking “Mama Shark” project, conducting the world’s first free-swimming ultrasounds on tiger sharks to study reproduction. She has worked with National Geographic, the Maldives Ocean Alliance, and partnered with researchers like Dr. Sylvia Earle to advance ocean science and storytelling.📚 Recommended Reading & Resources: ● 🌐 Miyaru NGO – https://miyaru.org/ ● 📄 Ultrasound Scanning of Free-Swimming Tiger Sharks – Frontiers in Marine Science (2023) – https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/marine-science/articles/10.3389/fmars.2024.1500176/full ● 🐋 Mission Blue – https://missionblue.org/ ● 🧬 Blue Marine Foundation – https://www.bluemarinefoundation.com/ ● 🌊 Maldives Resilient Reefs – https://maldivesresilientreefs.com/ ● ✍️ Petition to Save the Maldives Shark Sanctuary – https://only.one/act/maldives-sharks ● 🎥 Jaws (1975) – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaws_(film) ● 🧴 Hidden Shark Ingredients – https://sharkallies.com/blogs/shark-allies-news/squalene ● 🧠 Sylvia Earle – https://missionblue.org/team/dr-sylvia-earle/ ● 🐳 Humpback Whale Research Project (Tonga) – https://www.researchgate.net/publication/237530779_Humpback_Whales_in_Tonga_An_Economic_Resource_for_Tourism 💬 Quote Highlights:“A lion would never let you do what a tiger shark lets you do underwater.” — Arzucan “Zuzu” Askin “When you show a shark as a mother, not a monster, people see them differently.” “Sharks are older than trees — and we’ve managed to wipe out most of them in a century.” “Europe is still one of the biggest exporters of shark fins and meat. That has to stop.” “If you’ve used sunscreen, cosmetics, or pet food today, you might have already used shark.” “An ultrasound image of a pregnant tiger shark — that’s conservation storytelling at its best.”🌐 About WePlanet: WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human development. Learn more at https://weplanet.org📥 Join the Conversation: 💬 Feedback or questions? Email: podcast@weplanet.org 📩 Subscribe to new episodes: https://weplanet.org/podcast 👁️ Follow us on Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/weplanetint

Can thinking about the end of the world make us better people? In this episode of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, Mark Lynas sits down with philosopher and existential risk researcher Dr SJ Beard to unpack Bad Idea #27: “There’s no hope for humanity’”Drawing on their new book Existential Hope (Polity), SJ argues that we need to look beyond fear and fatalism to build a future worth surviving for. They explore how the same forces driving environmental destruction, inequality, and technological danger also threaten humanity’s long-term survival — and how rediscovering our shared humanity could be the key to building resilience and hope in an age of crisis.🧠 Topics Discussed: ● 🌍 Why the same systems that harm people and planet now endanger our collective future ● 🧠 What “existential risk” really means — and why it’s about justice as much as survival ● 🏭 How extractive capitalism links everyday harm to global catastrophe ● 🤖 AI, technology, and the ethics of progress ● 💣 The limits of doom thinking and why apocalypse narratives can paralyse us ● 💡 The concept of existential hope — a practical philosophy for long-term survival ● ✊ Building solidarity, moral courage, and collective action as the real foundations of safety ● 🌱 Why saving humanity starts with saving our humanity👨‍🏫 Guest Bio:Dr SJ Beard is a philosopher and senior research associate at the Centre for the Study of Existential Risk (CSER) at the University of Cambridge. Their research explores the ethics of global catastrophic and existential risks — from AI and climate change to inequality and social justice. SJ’s new book, Existential Hope (Polity, 2024), argues that the same human capacities that create danger also give us the tools to survive and flourish. They are known for bringing humanity, empathy, and philosophical depth to one of the most urgent topics of our time.📚 Recommended Reading & Resources: ● Existential Hope – https://www.sjbeard.com/existential-hope.html ● Centre for the Study of Existential Risk (CSER), University of Cambridge – https://www.cser.ac.uk/ ● CSER Podcast: Existential Hope and Risk – https://www.cser.ac.uk/work/24-october-2025-conversations-on-existential-hope/ ● The Precipice by Toby Ord – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Precipice:_Existential_Risk_and_the_Future_of_Humanity ● Our Final Hour by Martin Rees – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Final_Hour ● Climate Endgame (PNAS, 2022) – https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2108146119 ● Effective Altruism Forum: Existential Hope and Moral Progress – https://forum.effectivealtruism.org 💬 Quote Highlights:“If we want to save humanity, we need to start by saving our humanity.” — SJ Beard “The same extractive systems that harm people and planet now are the ones that endanger our future as a species.” “Existential hope isn’t utopian — it’s pragmatic. It’s about building the moral and collective capacity to survive.” “Thinking about extinction isn’t just about avoiding the end; it’s about imagining a future worth existing in.”🌐 About WePlanet:WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human development. Learn more at https://weplanet.org📥 Join the Conversation 💬 Feedback or questions? Email: podcast@weplanet.org 📩 Subscribe to new episodes: https://weplanet.org/podcast 👁️ Follow us on Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/weplanetint

Can we inoculate society against misinformation? In this episode of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, Mark Lynas sits down with Professor Sander Vanderlinden — social psychologist at the University of Cambridge and author of Foolproof: Why Misinformation Infects Our Minds and How to Build Immunity — to take on Bad Idea #26: “Misinformation is just people being wrong on the internet.” They explore how false and misleading information spreads, why even credible institutions sometimes get things wrong, and what we can do to build mental immunity. From fake news to populism, pandemics to AI, this conversation dives deep into the psychology, politics, and future of truth itself.🧠 Topics Discussed: ● 🧩 What counts as “misinformation” — and why intent matters ● 🧠 How our brains are wired to believe and share bad information ● 🧾 The difference between misinformation and disinformation ● 🌡️ COVID-19, lab leaks, and how science self-corrects ● 📺 The weaponization of “fake news” and authoritarian censorship ● 🧍‍♀️ Why polarization and inequality make us more vulnerable to lies ● 📱 How social media algorithms reward outrage and extremism ● 🤖 AI, deepfakes, and the next frontier of disinformation ● 💡 Prebunking and “psychological inoculation” — how to fight back ● 🧘 The power of intellectual humility and open-minded thinking👨‍🏫 Guest Bio:Professor Sander Vanderlinden is Professor of Social Psychology in Society at the University of Cambridge and Director of the Cambridge Social Decision-Making Lab. His research explores the psychology of misinformation, polarization, and belief formation. He authored the bestselling book Foolproof: Why Misinformation Infects Our Minds and How to Build Immunity (2023) and co-authored The Psychology of Misinformation (2024). His work has been featured by the WHO, the UN, and major media worldwide.📚 Recommended Reading & Resources: ● Foolproof: Why Misinformation Infects Our Minds and How to Build Immunity – https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/708295/foolproof-by-sander-van-der-linden/ ● The Psychology of Misinformation – https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/psychology-of-misinformation/2FF48C2E201E138959A7CF0D01F22D84 ● Cambridge Social Decision-Making Lab – https://www.sdmlab.psychol.cam.ac.uk/ ● Inoculation Science Project – https://inoculation.science ● Bad News Game –https://www.sdmlab.psychol.cam.ac.uk/research/bad-news-game ● Go Viral! Game (WHO x Cambridge) – https://www.who.int/news/item/23-09-2021-what-is-go-viral ● Cranky Uncle Game (by John Cook) – https://crankyuncle.com/game/ ● “Climate Endgame” (PNAS, 2022) – https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2108146119 ● European Digital Services Act – https://prighter.com/digital-governance/eu-dsa/  ● UK Online Safety Act – https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/online-safety-act-explainer/online-safety-act-explainer 💬 Quote Highlights:“Misinformation isn’t just about being wrong — it’s about being misled.” — Sander Vanderlinden “Science can make mistakes, but it self-corrects. Disinformation never does.” “Populism feeds off distrust. Once institutions lose credibility, facts don’t matter anymore.” “We’ve known for thousands of years what misleading rhetoric looks like — Aristotle warned us about it.” “You can’t fact-check your way out of this crisis. We need to inoculate minds, not just correct them.”🌐 About WePlanet: WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human development. Learn more at https://weplanet.org📥 Join the Conversation: Feedback or questions? Email: podcast@weplanet.org Subscribe to new episodes:https://weplanet.org/podcast Follow us on Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/weplanetint

🔍 Episode Summary:Is green hydrogen the silver bullet for decarbonisation — or a trillion-dollar distraction? In this episode of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, Mark Lynas is joined by energy analyst, investor, and podcaster Michael Liebreich to unpack Bad Idea #24: “We’ll just use Hydrogen!” Liebreich, founder of Bloomberg New Energy Finance and co-host of the Cleaning Up podcast, makes the provocative case that green hydrogen is over-hyped, fundamentally flawed as a fuel, and destined to remain a niche solution rather than the backbone of a “hydrogen economy.” Together they explore the physics, economics, and politics of hydrogen — why hype keeps returning in 20-year cycles, what role hydrogen can play in industry and fertilisers, and why pragmatism, not techno-fantasy, must drive climate strategy.🧠 Topics Discussed: ● 💧 Why hydrogen is a “really crappy fuel” — and the laws of thermodynamics make it costly ● 📉 The difference between green, blue, grey, turquoise, and pink hydrogen ● 🏭 Current global hydrogen use: 100m tonnes/year, and why 0.1% is green ● 🚢 Why shipping liquid hydrogen is nearly impossible (density, leakage, energy loss) ● 💸 Hydrogen’s “missing trillions”: the cost gap with grey hydrogen ● 🛩️ Europe’s RED III mandate and the looming cost inflation in aviation fuels ● 🚛 Why trucks, steel, and shipping are unlikely to go hydrogen ● 🔋 The rise of electric trucks, batteries, and the hydrogen ladder framework ● ⚖️ Pragmatism vs. hype: why chasing bad ideas risks a climate backlash ● 🐢 The “Pragmatic Climate Reset”: think like a tortoise, not a hare👨‍🏫 Guest Bio: Michael Liebreich is founder of Bloomberg New Energy Finance, managing partner of EcoPragma Capital, and CEO of Liebreich Associates. A former Olympic skier, he is now one of the world’s leading clean-energy analysts. He is also co-host of the podcast Cleaning Up. His influential “Hydrogen Ladder” has shaped debate about where hydrogen makes sense — and where it doesn’t. Michael also writes extensively at Liebreich Associates Essays.📚 Recommended Reading & Resources: ● Michael Liebreich – The Hydrogen Ladder ● Michael Liebreich – The Missing Trillions of Hydrogen ● Michael Liebreich – The Pragmatic Climate Reset (Part I & II) ● Hydrogen Economy – Jeremy Rifkin (2002) ● The Future of Hydrogen – IEA report (2019) ● TNO study on hydrogen costs – https://www.tno.nl/en/newsroom/2022/03/green-hydrogen-production-costs/ ● European RED III Directive – https://energy.ec.europa.eu/topics/renewable-energy/renewable-energy-directive-targets-and-rules_en● Porsche synthetic fuels project, Chile – https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2022/company/porsche-chile-haru-oni-efuels-pilot-plant-26823.html💬 Quote Highlights:“Hydrogen is the Swiss Army knife of energy — there’s almost always something cheaper, safer, and more convenient.” — Michael Liebreich “If you care about the climate, the cleanest kilo of hydrogen is the one you never make.” — Michael Liebreich “For every $1/kg cost gap, hydrogen needs $100 billion per year in subsidies. That’s the missing trillions.” — Michael Liebreich“Politicians love hydrogen because it’s a get-out-of-jail-free card. But hype doesn’t change physics.” — Michael Liebreich “Think like a tortoise, not like a hare: go steady, pragmatic, and win the race.” — Michael Liebreich🌐 About WePlanet: WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human development. Learn more at https://weplanet.org📥 Join the Conversation 💬 Feedback or questions? Email: podcast@weplanet.org 📩 Subscribe to new episodes: https://weplanet.org/podcast 👁️ Follow us on Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/weplanetint

🔍 Episode Summary Is civilisation inherently self-destructive? In this episode of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, Mark Lynas is joined by political scientist and existential risk researcher Dr Luke Kemp to tackle Bad Idea #23 "These are the best of times"Luke unpacks what history really tells us about the fate of past societies — and how those lessons do (and don’t) apply to today’s global risks like climate change, nuclear war, and AI. They explore the role of complexity, fragility, and inequality in collapse, and why we need to reject fatalism to build resilience and renewal instead.From ancient Rome to modern techno-capitalism, this episode explores whether doom is destiny — or a bad idea we need to outgrow.🧠 Topics Discussed ● 📜 What “collapse” actually means, and why it’s more often transformation ● 🏛️ Why Rome never really “fell” — and neither did most civilisations ● 🌍 Global risks vs. local collapses: what makes our world different ● 🔁 The role of feedback loops, fragility, and complexity ● 🌡️ Why climate change is a multiplier of collapse, not the root cause ● 💣 Nuclear war, AI, and engineered pathogens as existential risks ● 🤖 Why AI doom scenarios may be overhyped (and misdirected) ● 🧠 “Collapsology,” survivalism, and the new secular eschatologies ● 🌱 What real resilience looks like: democracy, equity, adaptability ● 🧘‍♀️ Why pessimism is lazy — and optimism is an active choice👨‍🏫 Guest BioDr Luke Kemp is a political scientist and risk researcher at the University of Adelaide and the University of Cambridge's Centre for the Study of Existential Risk. He co-led the influential 2022 paper Climate Endgame and has written widely on societal collapse, risk cascades, and global futures. A former adviser to the Australian government, Luke specialises in the intersection of history, complexity science, and future risk. His current work focuses on resilience and renewal in the face of polycrisis.📚 Recommended Reading & Resources ● 📝 Climate Endgame (2022 paper) – https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2204269119 ● 🌐 Centre for the Study of Existential Risk (CSER) – https://www.cser.ac.uk ● 🧠 Luke Kemp research profile – https://researcher.sydney.edu.au/researcher/51183 ● 📖 Jared Diamond – Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse:_How_Societies_Choose_to_Fail_or_Succeed ● 📖 Joseph Tainter – The Collapse of Complex Societies – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Collapse_of_Complex_Societies ● 📖 Kyle Harper – The Fate of Rome – https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691192062/the-fate-of-rome ● 📘 Our Final Hour – Martin Rees – https://www.basicbooks.com/titles/martin-rees/our-final-hour/9780465068630/ ● 📗 The Precipice – Toby Ord – https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/toby-ord/the-precipice/9780316484911/ ● 🎧 Collapse: The End of Everything (podcast series) – https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/m001qbpr 💬 Quote Highlights“Collapse is rarely the end — it’s usually the start of something new.” — Luke Kemp “Rome didn’t fall — it transformed over centuries. That’s not a Hollywood ending, but it’s a real one.” “Climate change is a risk multiplier, not the root cause of collapse. The real danger is fragility and inequality.” “We need to stop treating resilience like a buzzword. It’s a system of systems — democratic, equitable, adaptive.” “The biggest myth is that doom is destiny. It’s not. We have choices.”🌐 About WePlanet WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human development. Learn more at https://weplanet.org📥 Join the Conversation 💬 Feedback or questions? Email: podcast@weplanet.org 📩 Subscribe to new episodes: https://www.weplanet.org/podcast 👁️ Follow us on Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/weplanetint