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Not in Heaven
Not in Heaven
Author: The CJN Podcasts
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A weekly podcast about Judaism in the 2020s—because the Torah was left for us to figure out on the ground. Sublime and irreverent conversations about the present and future of communal, religious and spiritual life, led by Avi Finegold, Yedida Eisenstat and Matthew Leibl.
218 Episodes
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The winter holiday season is upon us, which means binging TV shows and comfort movies is one of the only ways to pass the time while temperatures plummet outside. With this annual tradition, in the Jewish media world, come annual think pieces about Jewish onscreen representation. And while our rabbinic podcasters have delved into this subject already with the ever-popular sitcom Nobody Wants This, there is a better—and much more deeply Jewish—TV show available to stream on Netflix: Long Story Short.
The time-travelling show depicts a single family over multiple generations, bouncing between the 1950s and 2020s, showing how generational trauma manifests in parenting styles, psychological effects, and emotional manipulation—all with a uniquely Jewish flair.
On today's episode, with Matthew Leibl away, The CJN's director of podcasts, Michael Fraiman, sits in to discuss the show's impact and themes, and where it fits into the long cannon of hyper-Jewish television that sprang up in the 2010s.
Before that, Avi Finegold and Yedida Eisenstat dissect the latest controversy swirling up around misinterpreted comments by Sara Hurwitz, and the gang recaps their American Thanksgivings through a Canadian lens.
Credits
Hosts:
Avi Finegold, Yedida Eisenstat, Matthew Leibl
Production team:
Zachary Judah Kauffman (editor), Michael Fraiman (executive producer)
Music:
Socalled
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Click here
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A recent, landmark study of current and future rabbis was met simultaneously with celebration, skepticism, and concern by groups across the Jewish community.
The survey by Atra – Center for Rabbinic Innovation, indicated significant upward trends in rabbis choosing community positions rather than leading congregations from the pulpit, rabbinical students who identify as LGBTQ+ (51 percent), and the number of students receiving rabbinic ordination from nondenominational schools.
The statistics have garnered their share of skepticism and criticism, namely that they under represent Modern Orthodox rabbinical students and that they do not include traditional Orthodox and Haredi populations. But even with those caveats, some community leaders worry that these trends indicate a non-Orthodox rabbinate whose demographics are significantly different than the lay populations they hope to serve, and who may have more difficulty than their predecessors in building relationships with mainstream Jewish community organizations.
Our hosts - 3 rabbis and not a pulpit between them - discuss how the study matches up with their own observations and what it means for the future of the Jewish community.
They also chat about the recent brouhaha within the Jewish community about an upcoming exhibit at Winnipeg’s Canadian Museum for Human Rights, and a spate of Jewish Canadian organisations recently losing their charitable status. And of course, some Textual Healing to ease our listeners into Shabbat Parshat Vayetzei.
Credits
Hosts:
Avi Finegold, Yedida Eisenstat, Matthew Leibl
Production team:
Zachary Judah Kauffman (editor), Michael Fraiman (executive producer)
Music:
Socalled
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Subscribe to The CJN newsletter
Donate to The CJN
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This episode originally aired on The CJN's peace-building podcast, In Good Faith. To subscribe and hear more, visit thecjn.ca/faith.
Mainstream Jews, who support Israel and consider themselves Zionists, feel like they are under attack. When they see people wearing keffiyehs and storefronts stamped with Palestinian flags, they hear an implicit attack: "You are not welcome here."
But for Palestinians, watermelons and keffiyehs aren't anti-Jewish icons at all: they're symbols of national pride.
How can everyday Canadian Jews and Muslims even start a conversation when words and symbols have such different meanings to different people? Telling people they're overreacting isn't an effective tool, nor is public shame, arguing over historical facts or posting online memes.
What might work: navigating difficult conversations. On today's episode of In Good Faith, The CJN's interfaith podcast miniseries, we speak with two people who are working toward exactly that.
Niki Landau and Bashar Alshawwa both came to conflict resolution through trauma. Landau lost a close friend, Marnie Kimmelman, to a terrorist pipe bomb on a Tel Aviv beach at age 17; Alshawwa was shot by an Israeli army sniper during a protest in 2014. Now they're touring Canada, bringing Jews and Muslims together for lengthy closed-door dialogue sessions, with a singular goal: create a toolkit to guide Canadians through conversations they desperately don't want to have.
Credits
Hosts:
Yafa Sakkejha and Avi Finegold
Producers:
Michael Fraiman and Zachary Judah Kauffman
Editor:
Zachary Judah Kauffman
This podcast is sponsored by the Canadian Race Relations Foundation, with support from the Ronald S. Roadburg Foundation.
In the lead-up to New York's mayoral election, many prominent Jewish New Yorkers came out against the eventual winner, Zohran Mamdani. Now that Mamdani has won, what do they do? How do they reconcile that a third of the city's Jews voted for someone who has spoken out against Israel? And how can they preach about unity when they already made clear they were taking sides?
This is the topic of today's episode of Not in Heaven, inspired by a recent column in the Forward, titled, "I spoke out against Mamdani. Then he won. Here’s how we walk forward together," by Rabbi Elliot Cosgrove. In it, the rabbi writes how found it "totally bewildering" that a third of Jewish voters voted for Mamdani. Our rabbinic podcasters dig into what that says about the shifting politics of North American Jews and how, if at all, our communities can stand together and be united.
Credits
Hosts:
Avi Finegold, Yedida Eisenstat, Matthew Leibl
Production team:
Zachary Judah Kauffman (editor), Michael Fraiman (executive producer)
Music:
Socalled
Support The CJN
Subscribe to The CJN newsletter
Donate to The CJN
(+ get a charitable tax receipt)
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Click here
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The hit Netflix rom-com Nobody Wants This is back, and with it are Jewish debates about intermarriage and onscreen representation in mainstream media.
The show's first season tells the story of heartthrob Rabbi Noah (Adam Brody) and non-Jewish podcaster Joanne (Kirsten Bell) falling in love. It was an unexpected hit for Netflix last fall, topping its most-watched list for weeks. Some Jewish viewers rejoiced at a popular portrayal of a common reality: families blended with non-Jews, not terribly religiously observant, yet still connected to their Jewish identity.
Others bristled at a show that celebrates a Jewish religious leader breaking a deeply held community taboo, and criticized it for it representation of Jewish practice.
Regardless of which viewpoint you took, the show was a nearly unavoidable topic at Jewish dinner tables when it first launched—and season two appears to be trending in the same direction. Our three rabbinic podcasters discuss the show, its merits and its pitfalls, including how is ostensibly frames Judaism as an obstacle to be overcome on the road to happily ever after.
Credits
Hosts: Avi Finegold, Yedida Eisenstat, Matthew Leibl
Production team: Zachary Judah Kauffman (editor), Michael Fraiman (executive producer)
Music: Socalled
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This week, many Jewish schools will be participating in a hallowed end of October tradition: sending out letters discouraging families from celebrating Halloween.
The prominence of Halloween in public has ballooned in recent decades, evolving into a full-blown seasonal phenomenon. But despite the celebratory spiders and inflatable pumpkins, Jews tend to have a mixed relationship to the festival. Many see it as a bit of harmless, secular fun—a time for neighbours of all faiths to welcome and be welcomed into each other’s homes, share sweets, and indulge in playful kitsch, costumes and parties.
Others see it as a festival born of paganism and idolatry, later mired in antisemitic violence before ultimately becoming a modern-day sexualized glorification of the macabre. Regardless of where they fall on this spectrum, our rabbinic podcast hosts have a whole set of important questions for Halloween: Can a cultural phenomenon shed its religious origins and become fully secular? How much should Jews try to join their neighbours in shared cultural space? And how much should they cultivate their own individuality?
Credits
Hosts: Avi Finegold, Yedida Eisenstat, Matthew Leibl
Production team: Zachary Judah Kauffman (editor), Michael Fraiman (executive producer)
Music: Socalled
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For months, Zohran Mamdani has held a double digit lead in the New York City mayoral race. The 34-year-old media-savvy firebrand burst onto the scene with a suite of fresh, progressive ideas—but his candidacy has forced a reckoning among the city’s significant Jewish community.
Mamdani says he doesn’t use the slogan “Globalize the intifada” himself, but he does not condemn those who do. He’s said that if he becomes mayor, Benjamin Netanyahu would face arrest if he stepped foot in the city. And, while he believes Israel has a right to exist, he’s not comfortable supporting a state that has a hierarchy of citizenship based on religion.
Many Jews are shocked and scared by the prospect of a Mamdani victory. They see his criticism of Israel as a thin veil for antisemitism, and worry his election would create a permission structure for more aggressive hostility towards Israel and its supporters. On October 23, more than 850 U.S. rabbis penned a letter opposing Mamdani and the "political normalization" of anti-Zionism; a sharp departure from a broad rabbinic norm to keep explicit politics, especially candidate endorsements, out of the synagogue.
But according to a recent Fox News poll, 38 percent of the city’s Jews still plan on voting for Mamdani. Some don’t think the mayor of New York has much influence over Middle Eastern geopolitics; others fear a future where Israel becomes a worn-torn, global pariah ruling over the rubble of Gaza and the West Bank—which would, they believe, only further endanger the lives of Jews in Israel and in the Diaspora.
Our three rabbinic podcasters return from their High Holiday vacations for this week's episode of Not in Heaven, in which they ruminate on the rifts that have opened up within New York—and which could spread further outward.
Credits
Hosts: Avi Finegold, Yedida Eisenstat, Matthew Leibl
Production team: Zachary Judah Kauffman (editor), Michael Fraiman (executive producer)
Music: Socalled
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Even for the least religiously involved Jews, the High Holidays are a high point—and sometimes the only point—of organized Jewish engagement.
For many families, it may be the only time in a year they step inside a synagogue or participate in a prayer service. A time for re-upping their membership in the Jewish collective, returning to the same well of tradition: the same tunes, buildings and prayer books that they remember from sitting with their parents and their parents’ parents.
But, ironically, for the people most passionate about Jewish spiritual life—those who have devoted their careers to it—Rosh Hashanah can look very different. Two of our hosts’ spirtual needs are bringing them to prayer services apart from their partners. Another fears they’ve been seeing Rosh Hashanah as a job for so long, they're not sure if they’ve ever had, or could have, an "authentic" Rosh Hashanah experience.
Plus, rabbis Avi, Matthew and Yedida discuss their advice for boredom in shul services, asking for forgiveness, and what to do with a yearning for someone to ask forgiveness from you, and using the High Holidays as a time not only to think about what you’ve done to other, but to let go of the slights others have done to you.
Credits
Hosts: Avi Finegold, Yedida Eisenstat, Matthew Leibl
Production team: Zachary Judah Kauffman (editor), Michael Fraiman (executive producer)
Music: Socalled
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Jews may joke about the High Holidays being a time for binge eating—overflowing tables of multiple meats, several courses, soups, sides and desserts—but for anyone suffering from an eating disorder, it's a dangerous time of year. That's how Ilana Zackon, a performer and writer, remembers coming home for the holidays in her early 20s. Privately, she had a binge-eating disorder; when faced with mountains of brisket, chicken, potatoes and pies, nobody thought twice about her eating for two straight hours.
Zackon wound up recovering from her disorder. And now, more than a decade later, she's reimagined that experience into a short film, Grain, that recently won an award for best 2D short film at the Fantasia Film Festival in Montreal. In the movie, the main character binges to the point of transforming into a horrific creature that rampages through her city.
Ahead of the High Holidays, Zackon joins the rabbi podcasters of Not in Heaven to analyze the role of food in Jewish culture—and how we approach eating, cooking and encouraging others to dig in.
Credits
Hosts: Avi Finegold, Yedida Eisenstat, Matthew Leibl
Production team: Zachary Judah Kauffman (editor), Michael Fraiman (executive producer)
Music: Socalled
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School has returned—and with it, the annual anxiety of Jewish parents fretting over the cost, and results, of Jewish day school. What good is Hebrew knowledge if most Israelis speak English? What are the benchmarks for a successful Jewish education? Is it just about surrounding our kids with other Jewish kids, or is there something deeper in the biblical knowledge?
Different parents will give different answers. For their part, our rabbi podcast panel of Not in Heaven, back from a quasi-summer break, have children of all ages with varying degrees of formal Jewish education. In this back-to-school special, the hosts debates the merits and strategies of Jewish schooling, including why sending your kids to a modern Orthodox school, even if you're more liberal in your home, might be the right choice.
Credits
Hosts: Avi Finegold, Yedida Eisenstat, Matthew Leibl
Production team: Zachary Judah Kauffman (editor), Michael Fraiman (executive producer)
Music: Socalled
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Buckle up, sports fans, it’s synagogue pre-season—a.k.a. Elul, the Hebrew month of spiritual preparation directly before the High Holidays. It's somehow both a marathon and a sprint for observant Jews and their leaders: synagogue staff, rabbis and cantors prepare to go into overdrive writing sermons, leading prayers, facilitating spiritual experiences, and essentially running the year's most important programming back-to-back-to-back for a month.
How can you community members support their leaders, prevent burnout and help empower rabbis to take on the enormous tasks ahead? Avi and Matthew share their thoughts, while also sharing their own routines—what they do logistically and spiritually to prepare for a time when they won’t have bandwith for self-reflection.
Credits
Hosts: Avi Finegold, Yedida Eisenstat, Matthew Leibl
Production team: Zachary Judah Kauffman (editor), Michael Fraiman (executive producer)
Music: Socalled
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Depending on which side of the political spectrum you're on, and which media outlets you trust, you perspective of what's happening in Israel and Gaza will be extremely different. And chances are, regardless of which stance you take, you're missing critical pieces of information.
For our rabbi podcasters, who have dedicated their lives to knowledge-gathering and understanding different perspectives, that's a problem. They ask: how can anyone be certain of anything right now? How can anyone have a well-informed opinion when media outlets are fallible, propaganda is insidious and facts are obscured? It reminds one host of Donald Rumsfeld's famous line about "unknown unknowns"—we don't know what we don't know.
Reconvening after a brief summer break, our rabbi podcasters are back to discuss these issues and dive into this week's parsha from Devarim.
Credits
Hosts: Avi Finegold, Yedida Eisenstat, Matthew Leibl
Production team: Zachary Judah Kauffman (editor), Michael Fraiman (executive producer)
Music: Socalled
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We're taking some time off to recharge this summer and prepare for new projects at The CJN. Instead of a new episode, we're bringing you another podcast from The CJN: The Jewish Angle, hosted by former Bonjour Chai host and current opinion editor at The CJN, Phoebe Maltz-Bovy. Avi Finegold is her guest. Not in Heaven will be back soon—stay tuned.
To our knowledge, neither the now-former CEO of tech company Astronomer, nor the company’s now-former head of HR, are Jewish. The secretive couple—who were having an affair that was famously caught by a videographer behind the Jumbotron of a Coldplay concert—instantly became a viral sensation, sparking waves of ridicule and resulting in their departure from the company.
But The Jewish Angle podcast host Phoebe Maltz Bovy had to ask: is it lashon hara to speak of these people behind their backs? So she asked The CJN’s resident rabbi, Avi Finegold, to shed light on the situation. It’s not quite lashon hara if the secret has been put out in the open by a Jumbotron, but that doesn’t quash the ick factor from giddily discussing people’s personal lives on social media.
Plus: why wasn’t this seen as a #MeToo echo, given the power imbalance between the CEO and lower-level female employee? Listen to The Jewish Angle to find out.
Credits
Hosts: Avi Finegold, Yedida Eisenstat, Matthew Leibl
Production team: Zachary Judah Kauffman (editor), Michael Fraiman (executive producer)
Music: Socalled
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David Zvi Kalman, a research fellow at the Hartman Institute and Sinai and Synapses, is one of the foremost thinkers looking at the intersection of artificial intelligence and Jewish life. While many in the Jewish community worry about destruction of past traditions, Kalman looks to the future. He looks at what could be the next big transformation in Jewish thought—on the margins today, mainsteam tomorrow.
Case in point: artificial intelligence. Kalman posits that AI, unlike previous technological advancements, has the unique ability to mimic human behaviour—a characteristic that could fundamentally alter our relationship with work, productivity and even religious practice. How are rabbis using AI today? Could the machines one day issue halachic rulings? Will it transform the role of rabbis?
Kalman joins as guest host of Not in Heaven, The CJN's podcast about the future of Jewish communal life and spiritual practice.
Credits
Hosts: Avi Finegold, Yedida Eisenstat, Matthew Leibl
Production team: Zachary Judah Kauffman (editor), Michael Fraiman (executive producer)
Music: Socalled
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It’s a brave new world out there for the Jews. Over the past two weeks, we've seen a series of stories published showing the ways new technologies are affecting Jewish life, from bot armies to A.I.-generated memes to racist Elmo to chatbots who think their surname is Hitler. But are any of these technologies creating new avenues for Jewish living (or Jew hatred)—or are they merely reflecting a culture that already existed? A.I. could represent our generation's moral panic, as the printing press, television and comic books did before... or it could be something genuinely new and different.
And before that, our rabbi hosts tackle the great cholent debate: can you eat the customarily Shabbat food on a Thursday? In honour of the summer food edition of Scribe Quarterly, The CJN's free print magazine, Avi, Yedida and Matthew talk about the glow-up of Ashkenazi cooking within the foodie world and its move from borscht belt to bougie.
Credits
Hosts: Avi Finegold, Yedida Eisenstat, Matthew Leibl
Production team: Zachary Judah Kauffman (editor), Michael Fraiman (executive producer)
Music: Socalled
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Jewish congregations and institutions—particularly non-Orthodox ones—often focus on how they can be more appealing and accessible to the growing number of Jews who feel like religion isn't for them. This has resulted in "big tent Judaism", which may have swung the door open for the masses—but has it also diluted Jewish spaces and expertise?
Recently, Rabbi Ari Witkin, ordained in the Reconstructionist movement, wrote an article that cautions against over-universalizing Jewish life and messaging. "We’ve become more inclusive, more welcoming, more responsive to the diversity within our communities. It’s allowed countless people who once felt pushed out of Jewish life to find a place and build authentic relationships with our practice and tradition. But somewhere along the way, 'meeting people where they are' became the goal instead of the starting point.... And so I think we have to ask: Are we actually helping people grow? Or are we just trying not to lose them?"
And so, on this week's episode of Not in Heaven, our rabbi panel digs into whether the future of Judaism lies in smaller tents, rather than bigger ones—digging into niches, embracing stricter communal authority, and not trying to water-down the public sphere.
After that, the gang discusses Avi Finegold's latest article in the recently released summer edition of Scribe Quarterly. Are horoscopes kosher? While the popularity of star signs and astrology—among Jews and non-Jews alike—may seem distinctly "new age", Avi offers a variety a sources that show they are anything but.
Credits
Hosts: Avi Finegold, Yedida Eisenstat, Matthew Leibl
Production team: Zachary Judah Kauffman (editor), Michael Fraiman (executive producer)
Music: Socalled
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Over the last century, North American Jews have poured untold millions of dollars into an alphabet soup of legacy institutions: UJA, CIJA, ADL, JNF, et al. And yet, after 19 months of rising antisemitism—while Canadian and American Jewish communities feel like they're free-falling through a crisis—many have been asking, "What have we been giving all this money for? Where are the results?"
To wit, two recent pieces published in the New York Post ask these exact questions. Rachel Sapoznik, an entrepreneur, wrote an opinion piece headlined "Why I’m ending my donations to US Jewish groups and seeking new leadership to protect US Jews," in which she calls for American Jews to support (mostly Republican) pro-Israel politicians instead of the Anti-Defamation League. Kathryn Wolf, a journalist, wrote a similar piece in the same publication that justaposes major organizations' glitzy galas and celebrity endorsements against a growing wave of grassroots Jewish activism.
In Canada, against the backdrop of louder upstart Jewish advocacy groups, the Centre for Israel Jewish Affairs parted ways with former CEO Shimon Koffler Fogel, a diplomatic leader who held the post for nearly 40 years, and replaced him with Noah Shack, who accepted the permanent position on June 27. "We have to be nimble,” Shack told The CJN. “We have to try new things and do whatever we can to win."
But to what extent should the Jewish community pivot away from these legacy organizations, who've spent years building goodwill with all levels of government and non-Jewish organizations? Is any support the Jewish community now finds not due to years of quiet, behind-the-scenes bridge-building?
Not in Heaven host Avi Finegold has long been critical of Jewish communal organizations—though he might also find himself disagreeing with the most vocal activists vying to replace them. In this week's episode, we unpack the pros and cons of how far these institutions have taken us, and what comes next.
Credits
Hosts: Avi Finegold, Yedida Eisenstat, Matthew Leibl
Production team: Zachary Judah Kauffman (editor), Michael Fraiman (executive producer)
Music: Socalled
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In 2013, Rabba Rachel Kohl Finegold, one of the first graduates of Yeshivat Maharat—a trailblazing institution in the Orthodox world that ordains women clergy leaders—became the first Maharat hired as clergy at an Orthodox synagogue, Montreal’s 175-year-old Congregation Shaar Hashomayim. Fast forward more than a decade to June 2025, and Yedida Eisenstat carries on that mantle as a member of the class that brings the total number of Yeshivat Maharat graduates to 100.
What connects them? Eisenstat is one of the co-hosts of The CJN's podcast Not in Heaven, along with Rabbi Avi Finegold—Rabba Kohl Finegold's husband.
To celebrate newly minted Rabba Eisenstat's position, we discuss why she opted for the title of "rabba" in the first place—as opposed to rabbi, maharat or rabbanit—and the divisive history of women’s participation, learning and leadership in modern Orthodox Judaism. Each host also reflects on their own out-of-the box journeys to rabbinic ordination, whether their education focused on theory and halacha, or the nuts and bolts of rabbinic life.
Credits
Hosts: Avi Finegold, Yedida Eisenstat, Matthew Leibl
Production team: Zachary Judah Kauffman (editor), Michael Fraiman (executive producer)
Music: Socalled
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Observing Shabbat is one of the most important markers of religious Jewish identity and defining rhythms for religious communal Jewish life. It’s one of the 10 commandments, alongside not murdering people. When the Talmud gives an example of the ultimate religious transgression, it doesn't say eating a BLT—the example is public desecration of the sabbath.
So last Friday, when the Israeli Rabbinate announced that synagogues would be closed for Shabbat, and that Jews shouldn't gather in prayer and community to honour the day, it was a big deal. They also reiterated a set of instructions that would typically be completely anathema to religious communities outside of wartime: leave radios and phones on silent, so you can hear sirens outside; and keep your phone on, in case ill or elderly relatives have an emergency.
Since October 7, when Hamas terrorists attacked on Simchat Torah, observant Jews have begun striking a new balance between their religious commitments and the exigencies of the moment. On one hand, religious law seems too narrow and constricting for modernity—a survey held last year by the Jerusalem Post found a significant increase among Orthodox Jews using their cellphones on Shabbat, which is a trend growing among the Diaspora, too—but on the other hand, religious law can also show surprising flexibility and adaptability, even softening rules about public transit and airline travel on Shabbat.
On this week's episode of Not in Heaven, rabbis Avi Finegold and Matthew Leibl describe how they've viewed this progression over the last two years, and what it means for the future of Jewish observance.
Credits
Hosts: Avi Finegold, Yedida Eisenstat, Matthew Leibl
Production team: Zachary Judah Kauffman (editor), Michael Fraiman (executive producer)
Music: Socalled
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Have you heard of the World Zionist Congress before? Until relatively recently, a lot of people hadn't—including two hosts of The CJN's Not in Heaven podcast.
Yet, perhaps owing to the impact of Oct. 7 and the wide-reaching effects of the Israeli government's actions on the Jewish Diaspora, Jews around the world have found themselves not only suddenly attentive to the existence of the World Zionist Congress, but actively vying for a voice at the table. (For more on what's at stake, listen to a recent episode of our sister podcast, North Star.)
And so get-out-the-vote campaigns are in full swing for Zionists to fight over who gets to control a billion-dollar fund. In the U.S., WZC elections set a new turnout record, nearly doubling participation since the last election in 2020. Meanwhile, Canada is holding its first election for the WZC in decades.
This week on Not in Heaven, our rabbinic hosts cast a skeptical eye towards the whole enterprise—while one reveals they are actually a delegate on one of the electoral slates, and explains what that entails.
Elsewhere in this episode, co-host Matthew Leibl reports from his home province of Manitoba, where wildfires coninue to ravage the province, and we discuss Swedish activist Greta Thunberg's flotilla stunt, as she was swiftly deported after trying to float into Gaza to deliver aid.
Credits
Hosts: Avi Finegold, Yedida Eisenstat, Matthew Leibl
Production team: Zachary Judah Kauffman (editor), Michael Fraiman (executive producer)
Music: Socalled
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