Five Rules for the Good Life Podcast

This week on Five Rules for the Good Life, I’m joined by photographer, content creator, and newly minted cookbook author, Lindsey Baruch. Her debut book Something Delicious is a love letter to everyday cooking, filled with flavor-forward recipes and the kind of real-life strategies that make dinner actually doable. We dive into her Five Rules for Grocery Shopping that Make Dinners Easy: From Post-it notes on the fridge to forgiving your fishmonger, her approach is equal parts practical, personal, and built on a deep love of food, farmers’ markets, & feeding yourself well.I still remember my mom walking me through the grocery store the day before I left for college, showing me how to pick a ripe melon and avoid the sad lettuce in the back of the case. It wasn’t formal, but it stuck with me, and it’s probably why I still love the ritual of shopping for food. These days, it’s the LA farmers’ market that lights me up. There’s nothing better than being surrounded by peak-season produce and letting the ingredients tell you what to cook. Whether it’s radicchio or fresh figs or some unique squash I’ve never seen before, that moment of inspiration, that little spark at the stand is where the meal starts.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.TranscriptHello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I sit down with content creator and photographer, Lindsey Baruch, whose new book Something Delicious: 100 Recipes for Everyday Cooking is out now. She shares her five rules for grocery shopping that makes dinner easy. We chat about how to organize your fridge through personal notes to yourself, how having a plan is important, but how being open to pivoting can make a meal magic, and that shopping for yourself doesn’t start in the grocery store—it actually starts at home. It is a great way to set yourself up for success, whether it’s for dinner or any meal that you cook at home. So let’s get into the rules.Lindsey, it’s so nice to meet you. Congratulations on your beautiful first cookbook, Something Delicious. It is an incredible tribute to learning how to cook. Thank you. From your family, starting with your grandmother, what is a fundamental that she shared with you that still guides you today?A fundamental that she taught me is to just stay present and to have a good time. She taught me how to enjoy our time together in the kitchen, cooking together. We would always bake cakes together when I was sick from school. She lived next door to me, by the way—amazing—so I would just hop right next door. We would make tea and pound cakes. She had those indented molds, you know what I’m talking about? We would cook those together. So I feel like that’s something that she really just taught me—to be present and enjoy cooking by myself and enjoy cooking with other people.It’s such an incredible way to learn how to cook and have it be such a natural part of your life from childhood. As you get older and cooking goes from a fun activity with Grandma to something that you have to do every day, it can get a little stressful. Oh yes. You kick your cookbook off with that question, “What are we going to eat?”—which has got to be one of the most vexing questions of anyone who’s got to feed themselves or their family. I know.What is your advice for flipping that to something that you look forward to? Or are there just days when it’s going to be a struggle? I have a list of recipes where it’s: I don’t know what I want to eat, but here’s my list of things that I can whip up. I’m a list girl. So I just have a list in my notes of “I’m hungry, what can I make with what I have in my kitchen?” Oh, I can make tuna most of the time. I can make pasta most of the time. I went to the market and I got yogurt and granola or something like that. So I always have those essentials to make sure that I’m set up and I’m always able to eat something delicious. No pun intended—but it is pun intended. I love it. Puns allowed.I never thought about having a list. I have one meal that I always go to when I’m at the grocery store. Oh yeah? What is it? Pork chop, potatoes, and whatever vegetable is in season. Ooh, that sounds amazing. Yeah. But the idea of having a list of five dishes that I could just look at and be like, “I’m going to cook this,” is such a great tip. Thank you.Born and raised in LA, you talk about being inspired by so many different ingredients and cuisines. How do you pull all those different inspirations together to inspire you to cook at home? I love the farmers markets. I feel like that keeps things really creative and fresh and not stale. That’s why I do like to go to the farmers market, because it does allow me the opportunity to explore what’s available. And that keeps ideas flowing and you don’t have to repeat the same patterns and the same recipes. So I feel like that always keeps things fun and exciting when I’m cooking—and recipe developing too.That teaching of what ingredients to shop for and how to shop for them—Grandmother did that for you. My mom taught me how to go grocery shopping the day before I left for college. But for those who don’t have someone who’s taught them how to shop for food, I’m excited for you to share your five rules for grocery shopping that make dinner easy. All of us have gone to the supermarket hungry. All of us have gone without writing anything down. It never turns out well. No, never. Every time I think I can ad-lib or I’ll remember everything, I come home and I’ve forgotten the mayo, the broccoli, something like that.What is your rule number one that shows that shopping actually starts at home? The first rule is to have a plan. You can’t aimlessly go to the store. Maybe I will for fun, but if I want to have a plan for dinner and I want to actually cook, that is where I need a plan. So what I’ll do is on a Saturday or a Sunday or even Friday, I’ll kind of think: What am I vibing with this week? What’s in season? What am I feeling? Am I feeling like a salmon? Am I feeling like a chicken? So I’ll start with the protein and then I’ll be like, “Okay, I want a salad with that or roasted potatoes.” Then what I’ll do is I’ll make a categorized list—fruit, vegetables—and then also location too. I’ll go to the butcher for my meat and then I’ll go to the farmers market for the produce. That is definitely my favorite, very first step to really making sure that I have my ideas down. I’m not going aimlessly to the market. And I have my grocery list, so when I’m there, I can just check it off right away.There is something so soothing about checking off that list and knowing what’s growing at that time. Building that list around what’s fresh and delicious—which ties directly into your rule number two.Rule number two: shop seasonally. And this doesn’t mean you need to go to the farmers market. You know, at most markets, they’ll have persimmons popping up really soon that aren’t there in the summertime. I find when I’m getting good in-season produce, I’m able to do less to it too. Just salt and pepper—I don’t need to zhuzh it up as much. It’s just tasty on its own versus like, a winter tomato needs more love.Thank you. Sometimes what stops me from buying so much fresh food or something seasonal is that I’ll open up my fridge and I forgot about some tasty tomato or an apple or a bunch of herbs that have gone to waste. Your third rule talks about how you can avoid having food go bad.After I’ll have my plan and I’ve gone grocery shopping, I’ll come home, clean out the fridge—sometimes even do that before—but I’ll organize it. And it doesn’t need to be, “Oh, I see everything,” because in this next rule, I’ll write down what I bought and what I plan to make with it. But I kind of do like to have a more visual cue for it. I’ll put a magnet on my fridge. Oh, you can do a Post-it note inside your fridge or on the table. I’ll write down everything that’s in the fridge—mint, parsley, cucumber, chicory. I’ll write down the ingredients and then I’ll write down what I plan to make with it. I love this. I bought chicken from the butcher and I bought chicory from the farmers market. I’m going to make a one-pot chicken chicory dinner. Be right over. I write that down so I’m not going in my fridge on Monday night and I have chicory and I have chicken, but I forgot I had the chicory and I didn’t have my plan. Now, I’m not only having my plan from step one, I now have it written down and I’m executing on the plan. And I find that allows me to have the execution to actually cook dinner without having to think of what I want to make for dinner—it’s already been planned. But also it saves waste where I would forget that I bought that ingredient.On the other side of the fresh ingredients and things that can go bad immediately is the pantry. And I can’t tell what is worse—having a full pantry and forgetting a fresh ingredient or having all the fresh ingredients and missing something from the pantry. True.What’s your rule number four? Rule number four would be: having the canned goods ready. Having my olive oil. I use a lot of vinegars. I’ll have all my vinegars stocked and ready to go. Also, vinegar is so versatile. If I want to change it up and change the vinegar, change the flavor—I have all of those there. I have different types of olive oil, different types of seasonings and spices. So I’m pretty much not shopping. I’m not going to the grocery store. I’m making tacos tonight and I spent $100 on a recipe for one night of tacos. I kind of am able to streamline the whole week’s worth of dinner by having those fundamentals in my pantry.We’ve talked a lot about planning. We’ve talked about the rules of how to shop to make dinner easy. This could stress people out and it could feel like if you don’t go in with a plan, you won’t have any sort of success—you need the list, you need the organization. But t

ChatGPT said:Yia Vang joins Five Rules for the Good Life this week to share lessons from the line and reflections from his incredible journey in food. Chef, storyteller, and champion of Hmong cuisine, Yia opens up about what it means to cook with purpose, lead a team, and feed a community. We talk family meal, kitchen language, and how to stay curious no matter where you are in your culinary path. And for the first time, he’s bringing that passion to The Chef Assembly in Los Angeles on October 20th. Catch him cooking live and sharing stories from the heart—tickets available here and more info at thechefassembly.com.I’ve loved watching Yia’s story unfold over the last few years—from the early pop-ups to the full realization of Vinai. He’s one of those chefs who truly cooks from the heart, channeling personal history, cultural legacy, and deep care into every dish. His food doesn’t just taste good; it means something. You can feel the weight of tradition and the joy of discovery in every bite. He’s doing the work of telling the Hmong American story plate by plate, and it’s been amazing to see how that voice has grown louder, prouder, and more confident over time.The Chef Assembly makes its annual LA stop on October 20th, with an impactful lineup of chefs and other culinary luminaries. The event will be held at ChowNow HQ and provide an inclusive space for connection between LA-based chefs, journalists, and industry colleagues from across the country and abroad. Supported by Resy, an American Express company, The Chef Assembly LA will consist of six panels, multiple delicious meal breaks, and a reception!Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I sit down with my buddy, Yia Vang, who’s the chef and owner of Vinay Restaurant and the host of some incredible cooking shows like Relish on PBS. He’ll also be in Los Angeles on October 20th for the Chef Assembly, where he’ll be cooking up some food and sharing his love and thoughts on Hmong cuisine. Today, he shares his five rules for being a good line cook. He talks about the importance of learning the shared language of the kitchen, how sharing a meal is more than just about eating together, and the best way to grow is to keep yourself curious. So let’s get into the rules.Yia, so great to see you and sit down with you. Congratulations, two stars in the New York Times. What an achievement. I loved seeing your face and your name in the article. Thanks, man. Appreciate it. I felt good about what the write-up was. I’m glad that I didn’t know when they came in. So that was good. Yeah, it’s a nice thing to wake up and open up the paper and see yourself end of this morning. You and I first shot together almost about seven or eight years ago now. You’ve been on your journey as a chef for quite a long time. Do you remember how it first felt when you stepped on the line at a restaurant?I remember my first line cook job, it was Italian Americano place. It was the kitchen manager literally was like, hey, do you know how to cook steaks? And I’m like, yeah, I think so. And he literally took me to the grill and was like, okay, you’re going to be making steaks all night. You know, the little thing, the whole like on your palm, rare, medium, rare, medium well, you know. Sure, yeah, and when you press your palm and you put your fingers together like he showed me real quick this is how you figure it out and then it’s like oh tickets are coming in get going and that was pretty much it and i just kind of turned it into a game in my head where i’m like okay here are the hot spots get the ticket time down and that’s kind of how i started with literally thrown into the deep end there’s no better place to learn how to swim than the deep end. Yeah or drown or drown or drown or drown.Getting started as a line cook is such a good entry point. How much of it was learning on the line? How much did you know? What do you think is a base level that people should know before they step into that role? Some of my first cooking jobs were just prep, peeling potatoes and, you know, washing me as a dish kid, you know? I worked at this racetrack where literally I put the burgers at the end of the conveyor belt and I picked it up on the other end, you know, when it goes through the broiler. My first experience on the line was tough because nobody was really communicating with each other. You would just expect to know stuff. But even now I get to run a line and in our restaurant, we’re constantly communicating each other. You know, I always tell the guys over communicate, over communicate. Even if you’re saying, hey, two minutes on the fried rice, it’s like awesome. Over communicate so that we’re all on the same page to get everything out. I learned that by being on some bad lines. Right, right, right, right, right. I can tell people there’s always a conductor. There’s always one person who leads the charge. So let’s all follow him or her. I tell people that life is kind of like working on the line. Know how to prep enough for the night, but also enough that if it does go over crazy, you’re not running to the back to prep some more while you work.Now that you’ve learned so much by being both on bad lines and good lines and now your own line, what do you look for when you’re hiring a line cook? The acronym I always have in the back of my mind when I look for people to come work on the line for us, it actually spells out the word FAT, F-A-T, right? So you’re looking for someone who’s F, faithful. They’re going to show up every day. And when they come in, they’re going to be coming in ready. A is accountable. They’re accountable for their actions. So if sometimes they mess up something, just tell us, hey, I messed this up. Awesome. There’s nothing so bad that you can do that we can’t unfix it or help. And in T, it’s trainable. We want them to be able to come with an empty mind to be able to be trained. So it’s just FAT, faithful, accountable, trainable.Having this wealth of knowledge and this experience and your openness to teach people who want to learn how to be a line cook is really exciting because you’ve been there, you’ve grown, and they’re giving it back, which is why I am so excited that you’re going to share your five rules for being a good line cook. Now, anyone who’s ever worked in a restaurant or been in back of the house knows that there are so many specific terms and ways that people talk to each other when they’re cooking, which ties directly into your rule number one.Rule number one is food is a universal language we use to speak to each other every day. I firmly believe in that. I believe that every cook, everybody who comes in and cooks, we already know this language. We’re using it every day. For example, a lot of our cooks are Latinos. I don’t really speak good Spanish. When I say I don’t speak good Spanish, I don’t speak Spanish at all. I know a few phrases. We’re definitely speaking two different languages but tell ralphie this is how we like this cut to be or if i’m talking to patricio and i say hey this is how i want you to do the grill they understand that because we speak food first before any other language.That bond, that coming together, it obviously happens when you’re working and when you’re in the weeds. That type of companionship and being together extends beyond when you’re working. What’s your rule number two? Rule number two is never eat lunch alone. And when I say lunch, what I really mean is never eat family meal alone. I’ve been in the restaurant so long that we just have family meal. Family meal is part of what we do, right? People who aren’t in the restaurant world, they will look at me and go, so every day you guys eat together or you guys do a family meal together? I’m like, yeah. The one thing I love watching is all our cooks, our AM cooks before they leave, our PM cooks before they start, we all gather and then we just sit at the big table together and we just eat together. It’s so cool. It’s just this beautiful picture of all these chefs in their black shirt and they’re just eating together. And when they’re done in unison, they get up, they clear the table, they put on the aprons and they hop on the line and get ready. And it’s so incredible because I feel like that’s the most important part of building that team is eating together.Because you all work together and you eat together, doesn’t always mean you’re always going to see eye to eye. Absolutely. Your third rule encourages people who are on the line to ask questions first before they make a change. What is your rule number three? Rule number three is before you take down a fence, ask yourself why it was put there in the first place. It was a quote I heard a long time ago. I’m like, that’s so true. Because I think that especially young cooks are always thinking, I have an idea. I have an idea. And I remember as a very young person, my freshman year of college, I would have all these ideas. And I remember I had a mentor who said, hey, man, I don’t doubt that one day you’re going to be a leader. I don’t doubt that one day people are going to listen to you. But right now, it’s time to soak things in. And what I loved about what he said to me both in that moment, really in the trajectory of this 18-year-old kid. You have to ask, why are there certain boundaries that were set? And not saying to stay within the boundaries, but learn how to say, hey, if we need to move this fence, well, let’s realize why this fence was put here at this spot. There was a reason for it. Let’s figure out where that reason is before we start going, oh, well, I just kicked this fence down. Who cares? And that’s like cooking. Cooking, you have these base, these structures that we cook within. You have to have it. How you make your sauce, how you sear a steak, how you make rice. There’s these bases that you work on it. To say that, oh, well, I’m going to do it this way now, well, you just total

On this episode of Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with Chris Shepherd and Lindsey Brown, the power duo behind Southern Smoke Foundation, the organization they founded to provide emergency relief and mental health services to food and beverage workers nationwide. Chris and Lindsey share their Five Rules to Prepare for the Unexpected, including their new Crisis Toolkit, a great personal and professional resource to prepare yourself, your team, and your loved ones for scenarios like natural disasters, legal and medical emergencies, and more. If you're in or around Houston this Friday (October 4), make sure to get yourself to their biggest and most delicious fundraiser of the year, Southern Smoke Festival---a delicious day on Discovery Green feat. 85+ chefs and beverage pros from across the country.This conversation means a lot to me. The culinary community has always been one of the first to show up in times of crisis—feeding, supporting, organizing. But the recovery process is never quick. The heartbreak doesn’t end when the fire is out or the floodwaters recede. It’s long, hard, and often invisible. That’s why organizations like the Southern Smoke Foundation are so essential. They remind us that true support is sustained support. Lindsey and Chris continue to show up—not just with funding or resources, but with empathy, experience, and structure. Their work is an inspiring blueprint for how to care for a community, not just in the moment, but long after the headlines fade. Photo by Daniel OrtizTickets are on sale now! Mark your calendars for October 4, 2025, as the Southern Smoke Festival presented by Sysco returns to Houston’s Discovery Green. This high-energy event brings together 85+ top chefs, beverage pros, and live music for one unforgettable day. More than a feast, it fuels the Southern Smoke Foundation’s mission to support food and beverage workers in crisis. Come for the flavors, stay for the cause.Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz.It is always a pleasure, and today I get to sit down with Lindsey Brown and Chris Shepherd, the Executive Director and the Founding Director and Honorary Chairman, respectively, of the Southern Smoke Foundation. They’re here to share their five rules to help prepare for the unexpected. We talk about this year’s devastating storms in their home state of Texas, how being prepared with checklists and important documents before disaster strikes is the best way to stay safe, and how taking care of your mental health is a key step to survival.So let’s get into the rules.Chris and Lindsey, always so good to see you two. Congratulations on the festival that’s coming up right around the corner. Thank you for making the time to sit down with me for the show.Your home state of Texas was hit with devastating storms and flooding in the Hill Country. I know that the Southern Smoke Foundation was early on the ground to help offer support and guidance during this terrible time. Can you share some of the details of your outreach immediately after the storm?We have a very focused niche when it comes to supporting natural disasters. There was so much devastation in that region, yet so few of those people that were devastated work in the food and beverage industry. Our Chief Mission Officer actually has family in Kerrville, so she spent a couple of days hitting the pavement, letting them know that we’re here and we’re available and we are accepting applications for assistance. What she found was a lot of hesitation and a lot of distrust. There had already been people down there scamming a lot of these folks.What we found is that a lot of people are on a business cash basis in that small town. One of the things that we remind people is you need to keep track of payments, you need to keep track of your pay stubs. Unfortunately, as a 501(c)(3), we’re not able to fund people who get paid in cash. To be really honest, it’s been a challenge for us to help anyone in that region for those reasons. There’s a lot of mistrust for people from the outside. A lot of those businesses are cash businesses. And as close as we are, we’re still so far away.Dealing with the Eaton Canyon fires, it really is a ground game. It just feels like such a tenuous time in these little communities and the culinary industry at large. What have you two seen personally, even closer to home?What we’re seeing on the emergency relief side is that we’re getting more individual applications, not disaster-related, than we ever have before. That can be a mix of a couple of things. It could be the fact that we have more awareness now than we have before. There’s a lot of crisis out there. There are a lot of people who don’t have a safety net. In addition to the quantity of applications, the grants that we’re giving out are larger than ever. The need is real.With these increased needs and your desire to support the community, how does Southern Smoke garner enough support and then distribute it accordingly?You mentioned Southern Smoke Festival, and so these events that we’re doing to fundraise are very important. Festival is still our largest annual fundraiser, and that, plus Decanted—which is our wine auction in the spring—that’s about half of our annual revenue. Everything else comes in through third-party events, fundraisers, corporate partners, individual donors. We’ve staffed up pretty significantly on our programs team. So we have more full-time people working cases. We also have more contract people working cases, and we have it in our business plan to continue to hire next year.It’s also about going out and doing events. Like this weekend, I’ll be in Greenville for Euphoria, their food festival there, raising awareness for Southern Smoke. And then literally going off to California to do another event to raise more awareness. As much money as we’re raising—or trying to raise—we still need to do more, because we also grow in what people know of us.Getting that awareness out and helping get people prepared for what life throws at them is really inspiring. That’s why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules to help prepare for the unexpected, which is something my family went through this year when we lost our house to the Eaton Canyon fire.Oh, I’m so sorry. I didn’t realize that.It’s okay. And I appreciate it. The rules we’re going to talk about—I see them, and I feel good because I knew some of them, but not all of them. When you are faced with even having the opportunity to evacuate or to see something coming that you have no control over, it’s easy to scramble. It’s easy to grab things that are personally important, but maybe won’t help you immediately in getting you even just to the next step of getting you back on your feet or in a safe place.Your rule number one is one of the most important things you can think about when dealing with something unexpected. What’s your first rule?Have your documents online and know how to access them. We see all the time—people don’t know how to find their paystubs. They don’t know where the copy of their lease is. All of those things they’ll need in a crisis, not just to provide to us, but any other disaster or crisis relief organization is going to ask for those things too. Creating a free Google Drive account and uploading the documents so you can access them from your phone, from any computer, anywhere you are, and just knowing that all of it is there in one place. Hopefully you will never need it—hopefully—but if you do, it’s there and you know how to find it.Had I known how on our own we were going to be, as far as having those types of documents or even having a plan, I would have prepared even more. Which speaks a lot to your rule number two: have a plan.Have a plan in the case of a natural disaster. Think about a lot of people that are having a baby—they’ve got their bag packed by the door. It’s another version of that. What do you do if something is headed your way and you have to evacuate? What are you going to have ready? How are you going to get the word out to friends and family or employees if you’re a business owner? Knowing exactly what that plan is, is so important.Well, it’s funny, because as we say this, I need to do this better.Everybody does.Everyone should be prepared.You touched on this earlier about people being guarded because the scammers have come in. And we’ve seen this as well too, in California, dealing with the fires. What no one really warns you about is that once you survive, once you get out, once you start rebuilding, a lot of people are going to come and try to take advantage of you.Which brings us to your rule number three: know what your rights are.One thing we found is that our case managers have really become advocates for our applicants when they’re working those cases. So they’re the ones connecting them with legal aid. They’re the ones connecting them with different organizations, immigration organizations. We’ve sort of built internally—we don’t post it because things change so quickly—but we have an internal Rolodex of different groups that we can recommend our applicants reach out to or connect them to. I mean, so many people that come to us don’t know about disability. There are even people who don’t know about SNAP benefits.We also partner with other like-minded nonprofits—if we partner with Giving Kitchen or we partner with CORE, we can help that applicant further with all of us working together and providing larger sums. Once you know your rights and once you know what you have access to, it really allows you to plan.And your fourth rule helps you stay organized—which, Chris, you know, anyone who’s ever stepped into a kitchen does this all the time just to make a meal or service happen. But people rarely do this for the bigger moments in life. What’s your fourth rule?Have checklists printed. I can definitely speak to Chris—he’ll cook Thanksgiving dinner and he’s got it all written

On this celebratory Rosh Hashanah episode of Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with Amanda Dell, Vice President of Programs and Communications at the Jewish Food Society. She shares her Five Rules for Creating New Traditions through meaningful gatherings rooted in food, memory, and hospitality. From hosting a modern Seder to using her grandma’s heirloom plates, we discuss hosting in a way that’s inclusive, generous, & deeply personal, without losing the thread of tradition, both old & new. As someone raising a family and navigating what it means to carry Jewish tradition forward, I’ve been thinking about how to celebrate the holidays in a way that feels personal, relevant, and connected. I’m not trying to replicate the past exactly, but I don’t want to lose it either. Amanda speaks directly to that balance. Her perspective shares the same permission to adapt—whether that’s hosting Rosh Hashanah dinner on a night when everyone can gather or adding new dishes to the Seder table—without guilt. It reminded me that what matters most is being with the people I love and creating something that’s ours.When people ask me about how the community rebuilding effort in Altadena is coming along, I point to what Randy, April & the entire team at Good Neighbor Bar have done with their patio. Home of the fire map, they transformed their parking lot into a family-friendly patio, featuring a rotating pop-up of local restaurants. Now that space is in trouble, & we need your support, Please sign here and help us get the word out!The Chef Assembly makes its annual LA stop on October 20th, with an impactful lineup of chefs and other culinary luminaries. The event will be held at ChowNow HQ and provide an inclusive space for connection between LA-based chefs, journalists, and industry colleagues from across the country and abroad. Supported by Resy, an American Express company, The Chef Assembly LA will consist of six panels, multiple delicious meal breaks, and a reception! Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I'm your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I am joined by Amanda Dell, the Vice President of Programs and Communications for the Jewish Food Society. She is helping me ring in the Jewish New Year by sharing her five rules for creating new traditions. She talks about how honoring the past is the best way to create something new for the future, that the most important thing you can do is to get people together to celebrate, and how to always leave your guests wanting more. So Shana Tova and let's get into the rules.Amanda, happy new year on this air of Rosh Hashanah. I hope you got your apples and honey supply in check this year. So excited to chat today and feeling like we go way back, full circle, perfect for Rosh Hashanah in the new year. What I love about Jewish traditions is that they're always centered around food, which I know is something that you have dedicated a good chunk of your life to with your work at the Jewish Food Society. Yeah. Why do you think good food and Jewish traditions go hand in hand?What makes Jewish food so exciting and interesting, why it's such an integral part of our life, is a couple of things. First of all, Jews live all over the world. We do. Our food reflects that. We get to bring some of our traditions, what we eat, depending on the climate, the terroir, the location. Food is actually part of a lot of our holidays. A holiday like Passover, a food that we eat like matzah, it's part of the story. There's a lot of symbolic food. That's a really strong connection. And then there's also in the same vein as matzah, Shabbat foods are foods that are cooked overnight. By following the religion, you get these foods that are specifically made for Shabbat and holidays. I think that's what anchors a lot of Jewish food.Speaking of Passover, one of my favorite traditions was us completing the second half of the Seder during hockey intermissions. What do you love about people taking these historic holidays and making their own traditions within them?I love everything about that. When people want to honor the past, they want to bring some elements of their childhood, but they want to make them their own. To me, the perfect balance is bringing these two worlds together. At Jewish Food Society, we just did an amazing home visit with my friend Marissa Lippert. She's a chef and writer. She has this recipe from her grandma Bibi for kuchen, which is the generic German word for cake. It's something she grew up with. Phoebe would make it for Rosh Hashanah with apple, something very traditional. For Marissa, who's a chef, she puts her own spin on it. It makes it all seasons of the year based on what's at the market. She's feeling kind of puts her own spin on things.I think for people in our age range, I'll say, I think this is the pivotal time to move things into your domains. It feels natural amongst me and my friends that when you're younger and there's a lot of kids in the family, it's more natural to do these holidays and for everyone to come to the grandparents. But then as the older generation passes away and people start having their own families, that's the time it naturally morphs into the next generation.Creating tradition for our generation can be exciting because you get to bring your own perspective onto it, but it can also be really terrifying. I remember the first time I changed something a little bit in my grandma's recipe and I was so nervous for her to try it and she wound up loving it and we had this connection over food and me taking her recipe and making something new. What is the right mindset to have when you want to change a tradition and create something new?Honestly, it's as simple as the act of just being inspired by what has come before you. I love that. It's about thinking about that family member, remembering the tastes, remembering the smells, what the house was like by just updating something or being inspired by something that's more seasonal. It's really just about doing it. I really love this idea of taking all that you've experienced in your life, all that you celebrated, and really making it your own, which is why I'm so excited for you to be here to share your five rules for creating new tradition. Now, whether you're Jewish or you have a different cultural background, there has been so much that has happened that one can pull from to really find inspiration. And your first rule focuses on looking backwards to make the future yours.Number one we touched on a little bit. Honor the past while looking forward. I kind of cheat this one because I actually live in my grandmother's apartment. I totally get a pass there because it's truly honoring the past. My grandmother was a truly amazing person, and I grew up in a family that loves food, but my grandmother went to college. She had a job. She was interested in traveling. She was interested in going out to dinner. So for her, it was never about cooking all the time and being in the kitchen. She wanted to be more modern than that. But loved food and loved eating. So I think she would be so thrilled to see her home filled with my friends, with my sister, with my nephew. I saved some of her most special plateware and pieces. And I love to use those. And that's one way I kind of hold on to the past, but lets me then explore more what I want to cook.That's so beautiful. Yeah. The thing about holidays is that they come around every year, no matter where you are in your life. And so that means when you're getting people together and you're celebrating, that doesn't always mean you're going to be on the same page. But your second rule talks about having that openness to host and celebrate with people who might be in a different spot than you are at that time. What's your rule number two?Rule number two and rule number three go hand in hand. Second rule, meet people where they are. Third rule is the most important thing is getting people there. I just try to really put myself in someone else's shoes of all the people that I want to invite and be like, okay, when is it most convenient for everyone? If it has to be on the second night of a holiday, if it has to be shifted a little bit, we're not waiting till sundown if it's not convenient for everyone. It's really about meeting people where they are is like the best way I can describe it. I don't put so many guardrails around exactly when we're doing it in a certain way. And there's always room for another person. Yes. That is my third rule. It's about getting people there. Assemble a great group and everything will be totally fun as long as you get people there.Even if it's not a traditional group. Totally. For Passover last year, I co-hosted with my sister. It was at her place. We had some friends that weren't Jewish. We had some friends that I never celebrated holidays with before. We had my nephew there who was two. So we had to do like a lot of story time and going through the Seder plate, which was so fun and doing a very two-year-old focused explanation. And then once he went to bed, we broke out more wine.Pouring that extra wine and having extra dishes, even if they traditionally don't go with the dinner or celebration at hand, has always allowed me as a host to relax and also allowed me to push the guests to really indulge and to enjoy themselves. And this type of hospitality aligns with your rule number four.This is a big rule for me. Be generous with the food and the drink. Huge. I love to create something that's really bountiful. Not to hate on anyone, but I think we've all been to events or gatherings where it's very twee, very intimidating. And I hate that. I like to set up a drink area where people can pour their own drinks. I love to just have a lot of variety and make it as visually beautiful as it can and people feel comfortable to dive in.And not get too caught up in what one might expect from food and drink. Totally. Totally. I love to do a combination of s

On this episode of Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with author, culinary producer, and certified legendary party person, Courtney McBroom. We talk about her new cookbook Party People: A Cookbook for Creative Celebrations, co-written with her best friend and fellow party person, Brie Larson. The book is a love letter to creative celebration, making space for joy, and giving yourself permission to host however you want. Courtney shares her Five Rules for How to Celebrate the Little Things, from picking the perfect music and lighting, to being open to messing things up, and to aligning good vibes with small moments. Whether you're a solo host or part of a party-planning duo, this one’s packed with smart, elevated, heartfelt advice for making any gathering feel good.Celebrating the little things has kept me grounded these past few months. After the fire, after the stress, after everything, I found myself holding onto small joys more tightly than ever. A Tuesday night dinner with friends, a good tennis session with my kids, and a nice stroll with my wife & the dogs. These tiny moments of gathering have shifted my whole outlook, and Courtney gets that better than anyone. This episode is a reminder that we don’t need an excuse to connect, only a little intention. I walked away inspired to keep throwing parties, especially it’s just my family and me making pizza in the backyard.Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I'm your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I sit down with author, culinary producer, and legendary party person Courtney McBroom, whose new book Party People: A Cookbook for Creative Celebrations, that she co-wrote with her best friend and fellow party person Brie Larson, is out everywhere October 23rd. First, today she shares her five rules on how to celebrate the little things. We chat about how to give yourself grace when hosting, to be open to trying new things and not afraid to mess them up, and how a great aesthetic is just as important as great food. So let's get into the rules.Courtney, so good to see you. Congratulations on your book, Party People. Thank you. It's a gorgeous book. It's a fun book. It's one that makes me want to open my doors and welcome in the people. That's the whole reason why we wrote it. So I'm glad I worked on you.In your mind, what defines a party person? Here's the great thing about being a party person—it’s that literally everyone is a party person. It takes all kinds of things. It's genetically coded in our DNA to get together with other people and be around each other in real life. And so I would argue that even if you're sitting here before me today thinking to yourself, "I'm not a party person," I would argue that that's incorrect. It really is a state of mind.You wrote this book and have thrown quite a few parties with your best friend, Brie Larson. Throwing a party by yourself versus throwing a party with another person, even writing a book by yourself versus writing with another person, is a different approach. How do you compromise when throwing a party with a partner?Working with Brie specifically, we haven't really had to compromise. Because we've been doing this for years since we met, throwing parties together. We're both hardcore party people to the max. There was no real compromise so far. I mean, knock on wood, we're about to go on the press tour. So far, it's been really great. Compromise in general—that's something you have to do with everyone no matter what. If you have any other person in your life, unless you live by yourself in the woods and never speak to anyone, you're going to have to compromise with someone at some point.Brie and I specifically work together really well because I have more of a food background. So I handle most of the intense cooking and food prep and all that stuff. She'll handle getting the decorations and write out the menus and do the party game aspect of it. And of course, we cross over. Of course. And help each other in that. But we found our own natural niches in that way. And so it was really perfect. As a person who's thrown a lot of solo parties, it is very nice to have a partner in crime. It makes all the difference when you don't have to plan and host a party yourself. Yeah, helpful.According to you, everyone is a party person, but there are some people who may have never thrown a party or are trying to elevate their party game. What is the best piece of advice you've received or given?As a person who's made a living out of throwing parties, something that I've learned along the way—the hard way—is to not take it so gosh dang seriously. Make it easy on yourself. If you don't have the bandwidth to do a 10-course meal with 20 of your best friends, invite three people over and order pizza. I love that. It doesn't matter how intense or how far you go. The most important thing is being around people, whether that's your family or your chosen family.My place is really small, so I can't have huge parties. I'll fit four people and we'll have a dance party in my living room. Alzheimer, yeah. But I definitely grew up with Martha Stewart, who I love and adore. I grew up watching her and being like, everything must be perfect and all this stuff and thinking I could never. And then I realized slowly over time, oh, but I can. And it actually doesn't have to be perfect.This idea of finding the appropriate party that fits perfectly into your life is a really good approach to living, which is why I'm so excited to talk about your five rules on how to celebrate the little things, which is really something that you can incorporate into your daily life. The idea of understanding how not to stress yourself out is a big part of starting to celebrate your daily life. What's your rule number one?Rule number one is be easy on yourself. There's a reason why Thanksgiving happens but once a year. We don't have the bandwidth. Not everything has to be some huge blowout with the perfect flower arrangement and the perfect place settings. Let people help you.I remember reading back in the good old days, Emily Post—the etiquette of parties—which is like, never let your party guests help you clean up. I say, absolutely. I have one friend, her name's Erin, and she legitimately loves to clean. And anytime she comes over, I know that she will start doing the dishes and refuse to let anyone help. She always says, it's better to do them when you're drunk than when you're hungover the next day. And I'm like, you know what Erin, you're right. That's a bonus rule.People also really love to cook. If you're making a lasagna and you have friends come over, let them chop an onion. Help your friends help you. Put them to work.One of the greatest pleasures about bringing celebration and partying into your daily life is that impromptu, inviting people over, we're just going to get together, we're going to see each other, which you talk about in your rule number two.Rule number two is don't overthink it. Literally anything can be a party. It doesn't have to be some huge, we got engaged, I'm having a baby, I'm graduating. All of those can most certainly be parties, but you can also be like, oh my God, I found the perfect pair of jeans. Or my best friend finally broke up with that stupid dum-dum they were dating that everyone hated and she finally saw her worth. Literally all the little things that happened throughout our day, throughout our lives, those are all worth celebrating. We have to find those small moments and really lift them up.We've been taught as a culture to push things down and to not celebrate those things and to always be working, always be achieving, and that's not what life's about. One of the parties that we have in the book is called a "brag and complain" party. I love that. It's so fun. Just invite however many friends you want over, sit around a table, you can have little paddles or you can just raise your hands that either say "brag" or "complain." Everyone literally takes turns being like, I have a brag or I have a complaint. And you complain about something and it can be as banal and silly as you want it to be.And in the very beginning, people are a little shy and like, what? This is weird. I couldn't possibly. But then by the end, everyone's like, I have a brag. I have a complaint. And it's so fun and you feel so great afterwards. And just being heard by your peers about the small little things that you want to talk about is so important. And it's not something that we really get to do that much.Having that comfortability and having that openness when you have people over and you get into the habit of hosting and throwing parties at your house is great because it allows you a lot more swings or a lot more at-bats, which is something that I think about when you talk about your rule number three.Don't be afraid to f**k something up. Go in there and do it. Try the hard recipe. Do the thing that you aren't too sure if it's going to work out, but try it anyway. Ideally, you're throwing little parties constantly every day. Celebrating the thing. So it's okay if you do something and the soufflé falls. The most important thing is surround yourself with people that you love and care about and who care about you and love you and share that space together.Taking it a step further, don't be afraid to say or do the hard things. Parties are a liminal space, and we live in a society that's so shame-filled these days, and there's so many people pointing fingers and trolls. I really want to drive home how important it is that we use these places of communion to hold grace for each other and to let people be their wild, messy selves without either feeling ashamed yourself or making other people feel ashamed. It really is so important to have these safe spaces in real life and to be allowed to feel like you can mess up, whether that's messing up the soufflé or calling someone the wrong name.What I like about this mindset of celebrating the litt

This week on Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with chef & restaurateur Alon Shaya, co-founder & chef of Pomegranate Hospitality. He shares his Five Rules for Supporting Local Restaurants, and we discuss what it means to invest in your community, from celebrating the institutions that have built a city’s identity to connecting with new spots that are pushing the industry forward. We discuss how eating early helps a restaurant’s bottom line, showing up for seasonal traditions shows how much you care about their personal story, and how simply taking the time to thank the people who make your meal possible makes all of the difference.Talking with Alon reminded me how deeply I care about investing in restaurants at every level. It’s not just about fine dining or hard-to-book tables. It’s about the corner coffee shop, the deli that’s been in my neighborhood for decades, the taco spot that remembers my kids’ names. Supporting these places creates community, and every dollar spent, whether on a full tasting menu or a single flat white, goes a long way in keeping them open and thriving. I am excited to be moderating the closing reception of Nicholas Hondrogen's show at The Hole in Los Angeles on Sunday, September 14th at 12 pm. I will be chatting with Jeff Vespa, the Head of Nicholas Hondrogen's estate, and Jeremy Shockley, one of LA's dreamiest artists today.Family Style, LA’s all timer of a food festival, is back this Saturday, 9.13! Snag tickets here and keep your eyes peeled for exclusive drops!Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I'm your host, Darin Bresnitz.It is always a pleasure when I get to sit down with today’s guest, Alon Shaya, chef and co-founder of Pomegranate Hospitality. He’s here today to share his five rules for supporting local restaurants. We talk about the importance of continuing to dine at local legends, why eating on the early side isn’t just good for making bedtime, but also for helping a restaurant’s bottom line, and why thanking everyone who cooks and serves you at a meal is so meaningful. So let’s get into the rules.Alon, it’s so great to see you. Always excited when we can make time to sit down together. Thanks for coming on the show.Thanks so much for having me. I’m really honored to be on this and excited to get into what I love about New Orleans.One of the things I’ve always appreciated about your career is your deep love and appreciation for restaurants and their place in communities and neighborhoods. Why do you think they hold this kind of singular importance more than almost any other business?Well, you know, I’ll speak from my own experience. I was living in New Orleans during Hurricane Katrina, and in the aftermath of the storm, I saw it firsthand. I saw restaurants become the place where the community gathered, and I understood at that moment the importance they hold in people’s lives. It really set the tone for the way I believe I should operate my restaurants and what I love so much about restaurants — and about New Orleans as well.Having gone through the Eaton Canyon fire, it was restaurants who showed up first to support and feed the community. So many people want to give that support back, but it’s hard to ignore just how expensive it’s gotten to go out to eat. Why is it still so important for people who can to invest in restaurants, and for those who want to support but can’t afford a huge meal, what advice do you give them?I think it’s about supporting an entire ecosystem — not just sustenance, but human gathering. There’s a real cost to missing out on being together, engaging in live conversations, and restaurants are such a natural way to do that. Everyone has to find a place where they’re comfortable, and also comfortable with what they can spend. Things are more expensive today, sure, but you can still find good deals out there. I’ll grab a seat with a friend at a local dive, order a sandwich and a beer, and still feel really connected. There are ways to do it without spending a lot of money.I know that through your philanthropy with the Shaya Barnett Foundation, you’re teaching the next generation of chefs, restaurateurs, and even diners about what it means to be part of the culinary scene and support restaurants. Why is that so important to you?We have to. I was educated by someone. As a young cook and culinary student, I had people step up and reach out to me. They helped shape my career and my path forward. I feel like the greatest gift I can give is reciprocating that generosity and belief — that people can reach their goals, no matter what profession they choose. Being a chef, cook, manager, or server, there are ways to make it an incredible life. But you need people along the way who are willing to help show you that path and guide you forward. I hope I can make a difference in someone’s life the way people made a difference in mine. Passing along that knowledge is so important.And even beyond education, there’s an understanding that going out to eat represents so much more, which is why I’m excited for you to share your five rules for supporting local restaurants. Your first rule hits home, especially these days when it feels like every week I see a legend — especially in LA — shutting down.My first rule is always support the local institutions, the places that have been around for a generation or more. That’s such an important way to keep a city and a neighborhood grounded in tradition. It’s easy to get caught up in what’s hot and new, but I love going to those classic spots. In New Orleans, one of my go-tos is Pascal Manale’s. It’s been around for over 100 years and is just two blocks from my house. I bring friends and family there, show them off, and talk about how special the city is because of places like that.Going to the classics is big for me, but that also ties into my second rule: go early. Supporting a restaurant doesn’t always mean getting the Friday night 8 p.m. table. One of the greatest ways to show love to a place you care about is by going at off-peak times. I like to be in bed by 9 p.m. these days — two kids will do that to you — so I love the 5 or 6 p.m. reservation. It’s a great time to connect with the chef, manager, or team before the chaos hits. Showing up early lets you engage with the people who make it happen, enjoy the meal, and then get out so they can turn the table and make another round of guests happy.This ties into my third rule, which is about celebrating traditions. I love supporting restaurants during those moments when a city comes alive — whether it’s Mardi Gras, Jazz Fest, or any other special time. Every city has its moments, and I like seeing what restaurants are doing to celebrate them. In New Orleans during Carnival season, for example, bakeries and restaurants all make their own versions of king cake. I love going around, trying them all, and showing my support for those limited-time offerings. It honors the moment and strengthens the connection between locals, the community, and the restaurants.Supporting restaurants also goes deeper than just showing up to eat, which leads to my fourth rule: show appreciation for the people who make the experience happen. I see how hard teams work, from the front of house to the back. Hosts greet hundreds of people a day with a smile, chefs work long hours under pressure, and servers deal with demanding guests. Saying thank you goes a long way. I always make a point to leave a good tip, wave to the chefs if I pass an open kitchen, or even ask to step back and thank the entire team personally. I think those moments really matter.Finally, my fifth rule is to support the people and places you believe in. I love eating at restaurants where I know the owners care about their team, their community, and their vision. When you go to a restaurant where the values align with yours, everything feels better — the music sounds sweeter, the food tastes better, and the whole experience just clicks. Supporting those kinds of people and places ensures that one day they’ll become the institutions future generations can enjoy.Amazing. Well, Alon, thank you so much for sharing. If people want to see what you’re up to or learn more about what Pomegranate Hospitality is working on, where can they go? How can they come eat your food and support your restaurants?Come visit us in New Orleans or Denver, Colorado. We have Saba in New Orleans, as well as Miss River and the Chandelier Bar. And in Denver, we have Safta, which continues to be a really special place for us. You can also follow me on Instagram at @ChefAlonShaya, where I keep everyone updated on what we’re doing, where I’m going, and who I’m supporting. Please follow along and say hello.Thank you so much for making the time. And hopefully I'll be at one of your spots sooner than later.Thanks so much, man. Appreciate it.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

This week on Five Rules for the Good Life, I’m joined by Sue Chan, founder of Care of Chan and C/O/C Projects. In this episode, she shares her Five Rules for Hosting with Heart, covering everything from curating an intimate guest list to setting an intentional tone to the importance of toasting guests. We talk about what it takes to make gatherings meaningful, memorable, and grounded in personal connection.Talking with Sue brought me right back to planning our wedding with my wife, Anna. I remember the hours we spent debating the decor, the lighting, and how to make the ceremony feel like us. That experience taught me how powerful personal details can be in shaping a moment, and that same lesson echoed throughout this conversation. Storytelling has always been at the center of what I do, whether I’m building a show, producing an event, or just hosting dinner. Sue’s perspective reminded me that when you lead with heart and clarity, the people you gather can feel it.Photo by Matthew GlueckertFive Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.TranscriptionHello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I'm your host, Darin Bresnitz.Today I sit down with my friend and colleague, Sue Chan, founder of Care of Chan, COC Projects, and a staple of the New York and LA restaurant scenes. She shares her five rules on how to host with heart. We chat about her lifetime dedicated to hosting, how storytelling is key to making any event a moment, and how gathering guests for a few words can make a night memorable.So let's get into the rules.Sue, always a pleasure to see your smiling face coast to coast. Thank you for taking the time and sitting down with me on the show.You and I have worked together in the past and talked a lot about our approach to hosting and hospitality. What I love about your approach is that it's been a part of your life almost your entire life. I remember the story you told me where you threw your first dinner party in second grade.Yes, it was for my birthday party when I turned eight years old.What has drawn you to hosting and throwing parties?I moved around a lot as a kid because my parents were academics. I pretty much moved every four years when I was younger. Because of that, I had to make friends in every single new school that I went to. So building community has just always been something really important to me, and something that I got a few reps in throughout my life.Some of those reps were working in the restaurant industry. You've worked at some of the most high-end restaurants in New York, and you're friends with a lot of chefs. What from that world have you incorporated both into your personal life and your professional life, especially with hospitality and hosting?I always take a hospitality-first approach to the events that we plan. It's not just about having a beautiful tablescape or having a delicious grazing platter. It's about what are the extra touches that you add to everything to make it feel super personal. Those details really make the difference between a good event and a great event.What I’ve always loved about Care of Chan, your agency, is that in addition to those details, storytelling is a big part of what you do. Why is that so important to you and to throwing a good event?Whenever we plan events, it's really important for us to identify what story we're trying to tell. That story can be something as simple as a theme, or it can be something as complicated as, “I want guests to walk away with this feeling.” From there, when you decide the food or the tablescape, it levels up into that story you're trying to tell.That story and hosting with intention and putting your whole being into it is something that is learned over time and something I think people can see on social media and not really know how to get started. That’s why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules on how to host with heart. This includes the details, the storytelling, everything that goes into the final iteration of a hosting moment or an event.Over the years, I have thrown parties both big and small, and I've really come to enjoy the latter—the smaller parties—which ties into your first rule. What is your rule number one?My absolute mandatory rule is no phones at all on the floor.Bonus rule?Yes. Almost like rule zero, like a starting point. Base level is absolutely no phones. Sure, take your content that you need to take at the beginning, but then put that phone away so you can be super present. But yeah, my official first rule is to keep it intimate—smaller, more curated guest lists. Curated doesn’t mean exclusive. It means that someone shares a common value or a common passion. Whether it’s a chess-themed event or everyone is from your running club or everyone is a mom, having some sort of curation really helps foster deeper connections. Those more intimate, curated groups allow people to have more intimate conversations.And it also allows you to feel comfortable in asking them for this, which is rule number two.Rule number two is invite contribution. Ask your dinner guests to take part in your event. Maybe they help cook. Maybe they bring their favorite bottle of wine. Maybe they bring a dessert that they love. Nothing feels warmer than a meal made together, no matter the contribution. Let’s say one of your friends isn’t a super foodie—maybe they can bring the flowers and arrange the flowers for the table. I think people come with greater intention when they have actually contributed to the night. Contributions through things like decor and helping to set the scene are really important, because even when you have people over to your house, there should be some sort of transformation.Or if you go to a bar or a restaurant, which ties directly into your third rule.Create a sense of place. Transport your guests to your favorite setting—real or imagined. Dress the room, dress yourself, dress your guests even. Are you throwing a pajama party and does everyone need to come in pajamas? Are you maybe giving them a set of pajamas to wear to the party? Perhaps you always vacation in Italy in the summer but weren’t able to make it this year, so instead you throw a party inspired by spending a summer in Italy. For that party, you bring in all of your favorite accents from Italy. You have a spritz bar. The entire menu is a coastal summer Italian menu. The décor is also in line with that. Perhaps you bring in some Italian ceramics to decorate the space, and then you play Italodisco. What can you do to transport your guests to your favorite setting?When you're hosting, when you're throwing a party—especially something that means a lot to you—people want to become a part of that world. I think with your rule number four, this is a must-have to make a party your own.Rule number four is add personal touches. Infuse the programming of the night with your craft. Personalize the takeaway. Show your guests a piece of you. Perhaps you serve your favorite childhood dish, and then that becomes a talking point and you can share that with your guests. When you share personal touches at an event, it really shows your guests that they matter. It’s that care, not extravagance, that really transforms a moment into a memory—and a guest into family.I love that so much. That transformation of people coming together has to catch a certain rhythm, and you don’t ever want to really disrupt the party once it gets flowing. But I do think it is important at some point to take a pause, bring everyone together, and do your rule number five.Rule number five: raise a glass. Always make a toast at an event because it frames the gathering and reminds everyone why we've all come together. It's important because then people walk away knowing what it is they just experienced and why it was that we were celebrating. So it's always important to set an intention at an event.Sue, congratulations. Love what you're doing with your events and the storytelling and the worlds that you've built through Care of Chan. If people want to check out your work or maybe they want to hit you up to work with you, where can they go?They should follow us on Instagram at @careofchan or check out our website at careofchan.com.Well, Sue, here's to more hosting and I hope to be in a room with you raising a glass very soon.Yes. Thank you, Darin. Cheers. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

On this week’s Five Rules for the Good Life, I’m posted up in Houston with Aaron Bludorn and Cherif Mbodji, friends and partners in the growing Bludorn Hospitality Group. They share their Five Rules for Juggling a Family and a Restaurant Group, including embracing therapy, building trust within their teams, and even attending Phish shows. They discuss scheduling family time like a meeting, getting comfortable with taking weekends off, and why joy has to be part of the plan. This conversation is about doing the work and still making room for happiness. These five rules serve as a blueprint for anyone seeking to achieve balance without burning out, especially when they have people relying on them at work and at home.This conversation really stayed with me. I deeply believe in finding balance between the intensity of creative work and being a present dad & partner. Hearing how Aaron and Cherif navigate that same space, especially in the high-pressure world of restaurants, was both inspiring and affirming. It’s not just about running a business, but about building a life that feels full, fun, and aligned with their core values. Their honesty made me reflect on how I’m doing my best by showing up for my own family, and also gave me a little more permission to protect that space as well.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.Transcript:Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I'm your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I'm in the deep heart of Texas, hanging out with Aaron and Cherif of the Blue Dorn Hospitality Group. It started as a friendship in the New York restaurant scene and has transformed into one of Houston's fastest growing and most exciting restaurant empires.Today, they share their five rules to juggling a family and a restaurant group. We chat about the importance of getting exercise and therapy, that the key to success is communication above all else, and we go back and forth on the rivalry between the Astros and the Dodgers. So let's get into the rules.Aaron and Cherif, so good to meet you. Thank you for taking time out of your busy restaurant empire to chat with me today on Five Rules for the Good Life. Welcome to the show.Thank you. Thank you for having us. Excited to be on the call.What I found as I've gotten older is that so many of my work habits have been directly inspired by my parents. And I find that people usually take a path as they get into their own adult working life—either embracing their parents' work ethic or running away in the opposite direction. What do you remember of your own parents' work-family balance and were you drawn to it or did you run away from it?My dad was an airline pilot, so he had a very set schedule. He worked 12 days out of every month and then he was off 100% of the time after that. I would say I ran away from it. He had a ton of time off. I gravitated toward a career in kitchens that was 16 hours a day, six days a week. And I still feel like I learned my work ethic from my father, but yeah, I definitely went the other way.Same here. I grew up in a family very stable where we spent a lot of time around each other. My mom was a stay-at-home mom and my dad—very typical government 9-to-5 job. He was around the household a lot. We all had breakfast, lunch, dinner daily together.I love that. I mean, those are beautiful memories and that's what I grew up with. And I think if anything, it really gives you this sense of family presence and having parents who are around all the time. They were able to raise their kids, and you always kind of want some of that, no matter how busy life is.Wanting those things I think comes later in life. What were those early days like when you were all-in, getting your jump on your career in the restaurant industry?Well, the greatest thing about those days was that it was just me that I had to worry about. Throughout my 20s, full-in on learning how to cook, learning how to run a kitchen. I knew that the more I put into it, the more I'd get out of it. I remember just knowing that if I worked hard now, I'd be able to have what I wanted later.That's good foresight. The harder you work, the easier it is to write your own ticket. And knowing that that's where you want to go, you can create your own path through that.That was my goal—to always give myself as much flexibility as possible.As you started your own restaurant and as you guys came together as partners in the Blue Dorn Group, when did you start to think about having balance, getting to write your own ticket? Was it an active thought that you worked toward or was it, “Oh, we're having a kid and this is what it's leading to”?My wife had a big part in pushing me towards finding balance very quickly after our first child came. We were in the throes of opening up our first restaurant. But I had also watched Cherif go through all of that. Cherif had kids when we worked together in New York and watching him balance those two... and I always thought that he did a really great job.I don't know whether your wife thinks so or not.I don't know.And that inspired me. The hardest pill I had to swallow was my wife being pretty adamant that I took Saturdays off along with Sundays. I felt this immense sense of guilt, like I wasn't contributing to my team. But then I realized that my whole team all got two days off themselves.Of course.Well, and I'd always been pretty adamant about that. I would push for that. And so I'm like, well, why am I cutting my nose off to spite my face just to work the sixth day and not create balance?And one of the things that really helped me out is going to therapy to work less.Yeah, to let go.Well, when you have this mindset and you're just thinking about yourself and working for yourself, and then other people come to rely on you—both at work and at home—you've got to shift that mindset. And sometimes, having therapy really helps.And for those who haven't crossed into that world of therapy, I'm really excited for you guys to share your five rules for juggling a family and a restaurant group. Or for those who just have one restaurant—it applies, I think, just as well.Your very first rule was the first step I took into finding a balance. What is your rule number one?Keeping healthy is extremely important to us. And it became something really apparent. Aaron's been really someone who actually has inspired me to start working out again because he's very active.He runs.Love it.And I remember one time I wasn't driving when I first moved here and I would catch a ride with him all the time. As we're pulling up here in front of our office, he says to me, “Our health is the biggest factor in our ability to be happy and successful.” And it is true. 100%.I think that also speaks to staying healthy mentally. The ability to find ways to calm yourself, to collect yourself. For a long time, running has always been a way for me to sort of filter out the day or set myself up for the day. Having yourself in a healthy mind space where you're not just burning the candle at both ends—having a healthy mind, a healthy body—it all comes from us, especially the drive and the push and the leadership. And if everyone sees that we're taking care of ourselves, they will as well. And that's so important in keeping the machine going.Being very public about shifting the way you eat and going to therapy is pretty vulnerable, especially in a very competitive place like a kitchen or a restaurant group. Which ties directly into rule number two and surrounding yourself with a certain type of people. What's your second rule?Building a team you trust and building that trust with your team. For us, it's been all about team building since day one. We've been so lucky to have such amazing people come on board and work for us. And it's picking the right people that mesh well, setting up a culture with those people where everyone buys into it. Where if you have someone that comes in that doesn't fit that mold or potentially is a bad influence, they find themselves out pretty quickly.One other thing I want to point out in here that's so important is paying them appropriately and paying them well. You can't try to nickel and dime your team. You have to pay them what they're worth.It's an investment. It's an investment in your own company and how your company grows. If you don't take care of your team, you get what you pay for. We are very open with our team. They're all very invested and aware of how we're performing as a group. They understand the financial operation side of things. And we sit with our team members every six months—not just annually—where we are constantly making sure that they feel valued. Whatever their worth is, it's acknowledged and taken care of to that extent.You talked about supporting the team you've built at work, but there's the other team at home where the balance is really important—because the team at home gets you for two days and the team at work gets you for five. What is your rule number three?It's protecting family time. Family time is something that, just as we think about important meetings or the things that we have on our calendar and protect and make sure that there is no excuse—we're there for it—family time is treated the same way.It starts with creating the culture where we are understanding and respectful of each person's family time. We do our best to give you the space to spend it with your family. If they have wants and needs with their family, we respect that just like we ask them to respect ours. That’s from day one. Because if we're equitable in the way that we protect this—so it's not just us that's being protected—everyone will find ways to run blocking for each other. Knowing that that is the way that it works in our company is incredibly important.But this is specific to our role and how we are obviously running this company with all these restaura

On this episode of Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with my friend and colleague, Andrew Friedman, author, podcaster, and one of my favorite writers working in food today. We dig into his Five Rules for Living an Artist’s Life, from trusting your gut to trusting the process, and why sometimes the hardest part is just having the confidence to call yourself an artist in the first place. Whether you’ve got a blank page, a hot stove, or a guitar in hand, this episode is a reminder that finding your voice is a lifelong process—and it’s worth every step.This one hit close to home. I’ve spent a career in creative work—producing, directing, writing—but for whatever reason, I’ve always hesitated to use the word “artist” when talking about myself. Hearing Andrew talk about permitting yourself to own that title, even if only internally, was a real shift. This episode isn’t just about the craft. It’s about belief. Belief in your instincts, your process, your weird ideas, and your voice—even if it’s still forming. And maybe, just maybe, it gave me the nudge I needed to start saying it out loud.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.TranscriptionHello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I'm your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I am so excited to be sitting down with my friend and colleague, writer and author, Andrew Friedman.He has written some of my favorite books about the culinary world, including Chefs, Drugs, and Rock and Roll, and The Dish, which is a deep dive into how one plate of food can represent the entire industry. I also enjoy his weekly podcast, Andrew Talks to Chefs, where he sits down and chats with some of the greatest voices and minds of the food scene. He joins me today to share his five rules for living an artist's life, and he gets into finding the right balance between working and living, what it really means to trust your gut, and the all-important north star, which is finding your voice.So let's get into the rules. Andrew, it is always a pleasure to see you and to chat with you. I feel like we've gotten to have a lot of conversations this year, and it just makes me so happy.I feel the same way, and it was all kind of happenstance, right? It all kind of started when we ran into each other at the big benefit for the LA Fires. And who says there was no benefits for my house burning down? A small price to pay. A small price to pay.I'm so excited to see you today to chat about your career in creative work and being an author and everything that's fallen under that umbrella. And before we get to the latter stuff, I want to talk about the earlier days. Do you remember the first time you did any sort of creative work? I don't know that it was that unusual, but I do remember little assignments, like in elementary school.I had done this kind of illustrated story. There was this whole civilization, like in caves, like underground. And I remember the teacher wrote, what an imagination.And I was really young when I did it. Yes. There's this crazy memory, and I swear to God, it's true.The Miami News, which used to be the Miami afternoon newspaper, and every year they had a scary story contest at Halloween. And I wrote the winning entry for my age category in about half an hour. I had an idea, and I banged it out, and I mailed it in.Love it. But I didn't know I had won until I went to a newsstand after school that day, bought a copy of the paper, and opened it up, and there was my story. And that was a big moment.Having those moments, having those early creative wins are so important, because it shows you that there can be success in doing this type of work, or having an idea and turning something real. And in addition to that, having someone support that creative work, whether it's a family member or a teacher. If you don't have that, good luck trying to get any sort of creative work done in your life.Yeah. Who was that in your life that supported you in your early endeavors? When it came to the mechanics and the craft of writing, there were teachers all the way back to elementary school who told me what a good writer I was. A woman named Eleanor Bachman at my elementary school.Several others. When I was at Columbia, undergraduate as an English major, there was a professor named Victoria Silver. I remember sitting in her office, and she was one of many teachers who felt like I wasn't really applying myself.And I still remember this sentence. She said to me, she said, you are incapable of writing an unintelligent sentence. The place where I was constantly for 10 years of my education, getting reinforcement was on the writing front.Getting this reinforcement and having all this support throughout your childhood and into college, when did you realize that you were actually making a go of it professionally? What was the tipping point? At the end of my freshman year, I read The Great Gatsby on a flight home. And that's when I decided, I'm not kidding, sounds overly romanticized, but that's when I decided I wanted to be a writer. That book made me want to see if I could make a go of doing prose fiction, actual narrative fiction, which I haven't yet managed to do.But I also haven't really pursued that beyond short stories in college. From that initial thought after reading Great Gatsby to where you are today, you've lived quite a life and put together quite a portfolio. So I'm excited for you to share your five rules for living an artist's life.And the very first rule you have is interesting because it's about the actual naming of that life itself. What is your rule number one? My first rule is don't be afraid to call yourself an artist, even if only internally. I think if you ask 10 different people to define what makes somebody an artist, you might get 10 different answers.But I do think if you are trying to do something that has meaning, something that might affect other people, that might provoke an emotional or an intellectual response. And to you, that is art. Declare that for yourself, to own that, to kind of commit to that level of ambition and intent, I think is something that one should not apologize for and one should put out there.And if you don't want to put it out to the world, at least in your own mind, that's an important thing to know for your own self and for your work and for how you go about your life. But I do think that's an important distinction. Putting work out there is such an important part of living the artist's life and trusting your gut.What's your rule number two? My second rule is to go with your instinct, no matter how weird or idiosyncratic it might seem. And all I mean by that is I worked for a film producer for four or five years right after college. I remember we had a new intern starting one day and he was kind of giving her a briefing.They were talking about reading screenplays. And he was saying, not just in reading screenplays, but when you go to movies or when you read books, just be attuned to what pleases you. And don't worry about, is it high or low? Is it sophisticated or sophomoric? Just figure out what floats your boat.I put out my third solo nonfiction book about a year and a half ago. And it's the first book where I really feel like I homed in on my voice. What is my real voice? And it's because I stopped trying to kind of put on airs and I let myself sound the way in a full length book that I sound in my emails or that I sound in blog posts where I used to feed my blog more often.There's some irreverent humor and I got the best reviews that I'd gotten, but I've stopped trying to be anyone but me. And I think for better or for worse, I'm writing stuff that's more true to myself. A lot of what I thought artists did for a living was inspired by the movies that I watched as a kid.And their lives consisted mainly of long martini lunches, gallivanting around New York City, dinner parties that lasted deep into the night, and most of the creation of art was done off screen. And that the emphasis of their work-life balance was definitely on the life part. Your third rule challenges that perception I had.What is your rule number three? My third rule is to ignore the zeitgeist and specifically all the talk in the last several years about balance. Work-life balance is certainly healthy. I do also think that it can be just downright incompatible with an artistic ambition.Years ago, Lin-Manuel Miranda, before anyone had heard of him, tweeted something that said Lin-Manuel Miranda dot dot dot is working on Founding Fathers on Saturday night. And years later he retweeted it. It was a little message above it that basically said, you will have to say no to some things to say yes to work.It will be worth it. Of course. And of course, Founding Fathers eventually got renamed.It was Hamilton. And I just moved back to New York City two and a half years ago from suburbia. And my kids are in college now and I could be out every, especially doing what I do for a living.I could be out every night of the week. Absolutely. And if I showed you my calendar on my iPhone right now, it's almost all white because I have really backed off on plans.I will not have lunch on any day except Friday. And I just want to be here working on stuff. That's awesome.If you want to be doing something that rises to a certain level, you're not entirely in control of when the best of that is going to be available to you. I still live by this notion of sometimes the muse descends. And when that happens, I want to be available for that.Unless you get struck by inspiration like you did for your scary story, you're going to have to make that time to sit down and write. Exactly. On the other side of the work-life balance coin is a question that every artist must ask themself and ties directly into your rule number four.Well, my fourth rule goes back to myself and every other English major I spent time w

On this week’s episode, I sit down with Alvin “Pepper” Baumer III, the president and CEO of Crystal Hot Sauce and born-and-bred ambassador of New Orleans. Pepper shares his Five Rules for Southern Hospitality straight from the Big Easy—where the host is always gracious, the drinks are always served cold, and the music never stops. We chat about what it means to take on the responsibility of hosting, how to curate the perfect vibe, and how to make everyone feel like family the moment they walk through the door. Talking with Pepper reminded me of why I love hosting. It’s something I grew up with—watching my family welcome friends, neighbors, and near-strangers into our home with open arms, full plates, and the right music flowing from the speakers. Pepper gets it. His approach to Southern Hospitality is rooted in intention: making sure his guests are fed, heard, seen, and sent off already dreaming of the next invite. We connected over our shared love of New Orleans’ culture, where music and food are more than entertainment: they’re acts of service. From backyard boils to black-tie dining, Pepper shares the ethos that’s kept his family’s love for hosting alive for over a century and why he’s honored to carry on the tradition of care, flavor, & celebration.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.TranscriptHello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I'm your host, Darin Bresnitz.Today, I sit down with New Orleans native Alvin “Pepper” Baumer III, the CEO and president of Crystal Hot Sauce, an iconic American hot sauce that has been around for over 100 years. Pepper shares his five rules for Southern hospitality and his deep love for the Big Easy. We chat about the importance of having hot food and cold drinks, the importance of music setting the vibe, and how to leave your guests always wanting more.Let's get into the rules. Pepper, great to meet you. Appreciate you sitting down with me today. Coming all the way from New Orleans, the one LA to the other LA. Welcome to the show.I appreciate you, man. Thanks for having me. When I hear third generation, 100-plus year American heritage company, all I could think about are the parties your family must throw. What is a typical soiree like in the Bomar extended family?Well, we're in New Orleans. Partying and food and culture is right in our wheelhouse. Right off the bat. Being born into a food family on one side, and also on the other side—my mother's side of the family is in the restaurant industry. So parties and birthdays and Christmas is just like a come one, come all extravaganza wherever we go.What's the music and food situation like?It's funk, jazz, you got crawfish boils, crab boils, your Cajun boudin and stuff like that. But then you get the upscale, like white tablecloth service at like Commander's and Herbsaint and those places too, where it just—you can't have a bad time here.You were literally born into this. The legend goes that your grandma gave you your nickname, Pepper, while you were still in the womb.Too many Albans running around. She was just done with it. I am named after my grandfather and my father, but I've been going by Pepper since the womb, and that's the only name that I've ever been called. Unless I'm at the DMV.What's it like to be born into this destiny, this responsibility of taking the mantle of your family's heritage and legacy?A lot of personal pride comes with it for sure. My name is Pepper. I'm a walking billboard. I wear it on my sleeve. It's part of my identity. It's part of my family. So I really take that to heart when we ever have people compliment all of our products, that's phenomenal. But even when people say hey, like we wish you kind of did something here better, I take that to heart. And I really go back to the team and be like okay, well this didn't taste well, so what do we need to fix that? How do we improve on that? Because not only do we do our Crystal-branded products, we also do a lot of private label business for customers around the world. So we do a lot of cutting, and they'll be like hey, this is great but we would rather more heat-forward or citrus-forward or however you want to do it. And then we really try and get to the customer exactly what they want.I imagine that customer relationships and those personal connections all over the world leaves you with a very full dance card. What is your approach to being a guest at someone else's party or what is your approach to being an ambassador out in the world?Being a guest at someone else's party, forgive me, but you can't show up ass and face. You always gotta show up with at least a bottle of wine or some sort of thank you to the host. I'm very proud of where I'm from, New Orleans—especially being a junior in high school when Katrina hit. That galvanized everybody in my generation from here. We're here to stay. We wear that New Orleans bandana wherever we go, like a badge of honor. Everybody wants to come down here for Jazz Fest. Everybody wants to come down here for Mardi Gras. Now, granted, those things are great too, but you can come down to the city anytime and have a phenomenal time.What I've always loved about New Orleans and big families from New Orleans is this hospitality that runs through your veins, that you just get a sense of when you show up, you know that you're going to have a good time and be taken care of. Which is why I'm so excited to talk to you today about your five rules of Southern hospitality.Now, coming from the Northeast, it was a while before I had a chance to really experience Southern hospitality for the first time. And when I did—not saying the Northeast doesn't take care of you—but it's a completely different approach. I remember going to my first wedding below the Mason Dixon. And I would say that your very first rule ties into my experience there. What's your first rule of Southern hospitality?My first rule is a warm welcome, preferably with a cocktail. Hospitality is in the blood. My mom's family is the Brennan family. So we have a lot of restaurants in our wheelhouse. We have Christmas parties. We host Mardi Gras parties. We have all that set up for people. That's not a normal occurrence. Most people don't kind of come into a household like that. And we live a block off the parade route. You walk in and it's just open bar, open food, come one, come all. There's nothing that you can't do. It gets a little rowdy from when we were in college to when my younger cousins were in college. But now we've all kind of grown up, and the amount of bicycles that used to go to the house are now been exchanged for baby strollers.I love it.It's fun to see how it's come full circle. I grew up going to my aunt and uncle's house when I was my kid's age. And for me, trying to bring it back, and they're coming at this time—same house, same corner—kind of surreal. That is really kind of getting back to that. Going back to the very first thing of my first rule, you always got to be the most welcoming host that you can be. When you host and agree to host, it is a responsibility.Yeah. I mean, you can relax, but you can't take your eye off the ball.Correct.What's your rule number two?The food hot and the drinks cold, man. It's tried and true. You can't go wrong when there's cold drinks flowing, preferably being served to you. And staying with the food—what's the best tasting sandwich that you can have? A sandwich made by somebody else. Those are always the best things to do. There's no worry. You're there. Everything's taken care of for you. The hassle-freeness is one of the best things that you can get from Southern hospitality parties.Wow. When you're having these big Southern hospitality parties, especially when your family is such a big part of the community and has restaurants—not everyone who's going to come to the party is someone that you know, or might even be one or two degrees of someone you know.Yeah.But that's all right because of your rule number three.You got to make everybody feel like family. To your point, if I have a friend who brings a friend, we don't balk at that. Come one, come all. As long as you're at my house, you're going to have a great time. I'm going to make sure you're having a great time. But also, I'm going to engage with you—kind of know who you are if I don't know you.I love that.What brought you here? At the end of the day, we want people to have a great time and want to keep coming back. We always have to have our best dress on, if that makes sense.Absolutely.You want them to see all the positives that goes on in the city and in the community. It gets them wanting to come back to New Orleans. This is kind of our bread and butter. We have to kind of get people to keep on coming back and coming back and wanting to come back.Food and hospitality are two of the biggest draws in New Orleans, but there is a third that everyone loves. What's your rule number four?Music and vibe, man. It's got to keep the party going. Mardi Gras, you always have your Mardi Gras music with The Meters and Dr. John, and then with Jazz Fest, it's always Trombone Shorty, Kermit Ruffins. There's kind of themes to it, but the cool thing about New Orleans is how easily accessible the music scene is here. Everybody knows New Orleans is known for music. It doesn't get the hype that Nashville, or country row, gets. I think a lot of people underestimate how culturally impactful New Orleans music is.You and I are the same age of like rap. New Orleans put Southern rap on the map. And then Dave Matthews Band, even though he's not from here, he's from South Africa, he has a lot of New Orleans influence on all of his music. And Jon Batiste is a New Orleans musician who's up in New York all the time. And he's living up there. He went to Juilliard. New Orleans has a very big stranglehold on the music scene around the world that I don't think it

This week on Five Rules for the Good Life, I’m joined by the one and only Dana Cowin—former Food & Wine editor-in-chief, zine creator, podcast host, and party-throwing legend—for a conversation on how to entertain with joy and intention. Dana shares her Five Rules for Throwing a Sustainable Party, from the power of the potluck to the importance of local beeswax candles, and saying no to the disposable single-use platter. We talk about rethinking leftovers as party favors, the ethics of bodega bouquets, and how to host with less waste and more meaning. This one’s for anyone looking to throw a party that feels good and does good for the environment. Photo By Morgan FoitleEditorial Note, Updated 7.31.25: Dana left Food & Wine in 2016, not 1996.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.(00:00:00):Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life.(00:00:02):I'm your host, Darin Bresnitz.(00:00:03):Today, I am joined by food and media legend, Dana Cowin.(00:00:07):For over 20 years,(00:00:09):she was the editor-in-chief at Food & Wine Magazine until she struck out on her own(00:00:14):creative culinary journey,(00:00:16):launching such incredible zines like Speaking Broadly and her new podcast and event(00:00:21):series,(00:00:21):Progressive Hedonist.(00:00:23):She joins me today to share her five rules for throwing a sustainable party.(00:00:26):We chat about taking the pressure off yourself as a host by asking your guests to(00:00:31):pitch in for a potluck,(00:00:33):how to source locally grown flowers to make the perfect details for your setting,(00:00:39):and how to make sure that no food goes to waste.(00:00:42):It is a delicious, fun, and educational conversation.(00:00:46):So let's get into the rules.(00:00:50):Dana, so good to see you.(00:00:52):Always a pleasure when we can make time to sit down and chat.(00:00:55):So happy to see you.(00:00:56):With such an illustrious career in food,(00:00:59):especially from an editorial perspective,(00:01:01):have you been able to spot the difference between a trend or fat in cooking versus(00:01:06):something that becomes more permanent?(00:01:08):I gave up my trend spotting.(00:01:11):I started in print, so Legacy Media, in 1982.(00:01:16):And all I focused on for the next three decades was what is the trend?(00:01:21):What are people talking about?(00:01:23):When I left Food & Wine, which was in 1996, I was like, I'm done with that.(00:01:28):I'm not interested.(00:01:30):I don't care.(00:01:31):The trends, they do come and go.(00:01:33):Some are longer, some are shorter.(00:01:34):But at the end of the day,(00:01:35):they actually distract from some of the bigger questions that we should be asking(00:01:40):ourselves about the food that we're eating and the people we're supporting and the(00:01:44):way that we're living on this planet.(00:01:46):The biggest trend that I see right now is people looking to find a more restorative way of life.(00:01:53):I have to imagine,(00:01:54):given all that time looking at recipes and looking at different dishes and what(00:01:58):people want to cook,(00:01:59):when you're throwing a dinner party,(00:02:01):how do you select from your deep arsenal of dishes what to cook when you have(00:02:06):people over?(00:02:06):This is funny, Darin.(00:02:07):You're making all these assumptions.(00:02:09):You know that I wrote a cookbook.(00:02:10):I know.(00:02:10):I'm mastering my mistakes in the kitchen.(00:02:12):So I'm not a cook.(00:02:13):I didn't come to this world as a cook.(00:02:16):And I had 20 years of tasting the best food in the test kitchen every single day(00:02:22):saying,(00:02:23):this is incredible.(00:02:24):Am I going to make it at home?(00:02:25):I'm not so sure.(00:02:26):The greatest irony is that for those 20 years, I cooked not at all.(00:02:34):Being in the test kitchen every day,(00:02:35):I learned a lot of tricks,(00:02:37):shortcuts to flavor,(00:02:39):better ways to shop.(00:02:40):Crispier potatoes.(00:02:41):Oh my God, the smashed potatoes.(00:02:43):Absolutely.(00:02:43):These things when you're in the kitchen, you're like, wait, how did you do that?(00:02:47):So I learned a lot of technique.(00:02:49):I learned about all kinds of ingredients that I'd never heard of before.(00:02:53):It was super exciting.(00:02:55):Since leaving Food & Wine, I've cooked so much more.(00:02:59):Taking the technique and the ingredients and the enthusiasm and all the ideas that(00:03:03):are in the back of my mind,(00:03:05):that's what's stored.(00:03:06):Just all these ideas, but not the recipes themselves.(00:03:09):It has made it really fun, and I am a much better cook.(00:03:12):And it feels very ironic to me with Progressive Hedonist,(00:03:17):I host and co-host events all over the country and a lot of them at home.(00:03:21):And I do so much cooking for people because I ask other people to bring dishes that(00:03:26):regenerate themselves and regenerate the planet.(00:03:28):And I have to find my own set of dishes that match that.(00:03:32):I think it's really important,(00:03:33):especially when you're having people over,(00:03:35):to be conscious of what you're buying and what you're working with and not having(00:03:39):more food in your trash can than on your plate at the end of the day.(00:03:43):And that's why I'm excited to be chatting with you about your five rules for(00:03:47):throwing a sustainable party.(00:03:49):We've all had a party where sometimes we put all the pressure on ourselves,(00:03:53):but your first rule gives a little grace to the host of a party.(00:03:56):What is it?(00:03:57):make it a potluck.(00:03:58):If you take on the responsibility of cooking for whatever number of people it is,(00:04:02):it can be very stressful.(00:04:03):Inviting people in to cook with you,(00:04:06):to bring ingredients,(00:04:07):to bring complete dishes,(00:04:08):I have found it's such a delight,(00:04:11):not just because it's less stressful,(00:04:13):but people cook things that I've never tried before.(00:04:16):I used to have a test kitchen that expanded my horizons.(00:04:19):And now with potlucks, I have a way to expand my horizons and try new things.(00:04:24):Of course, restaurants as well.(00:04:25):But in terms of home cooking,(00:04:27):I did a congee potluck and seeing all the toppings that people brought and the(00:04:32):different chili oils and the little fishes,(00:04:35):and it was completely delicious.(00:04:38):and something I would have never done myself.(00:04:40):It builds that sense of everybody in this together because everyone has brought(00:04:45):something to the table and gives everybody something to talk about.(00:04:48):Lastly, and this is important to me because I now host quite a bit, it saves you money.(00:04:53):Yes.(00:04:53):Because if I had to pay to feed 20 people twice a month,(00:04:57):that's exorbitant,(00:04:58):but much less so if you're making a couple of dishes out of everything that's on(00:05:03):the table.(00:05:03):My second fear when we're having a big party,(00:05:06):when I'm hosting,(00:05:07):number one,(00:05:08):running out of food.(00:05:09):Total Shonda.(00:05:09):I really identify with that.(00:05:11):I am always worried.(00:05:12):I always overcook.(00:05:13):But my second one, I don't have enough serviceware or the right plates.(00:05:17):New Year's Eve last year found me running to Sur La Tabla to get two white serving(00:05:22):platters because I just couldn't do it.(00:05:24):One more New Year's with the wrong platters.(00:05:26):But rule two advises against this.(00:05:29):What is your rule number two?(00:05:30):I am wagging a virtual finger at you.(00:05:32):I know.(00:05:33):I believe that we should avoid buying new things when we're entertaining.(00:05:38):And particularly in the area of service wear.(00:05:42):So that would be beautiful platters or forks and knives, even napkins.(00:05:47):I avoid things that are both disposable and new.(00:05:50):You probably have something that will suffice.(00:05:53):And will people leave your party saying,(00:05:55):oh my God,(00:05:56):did you see that platter under the chicken wings?(00:06:01):Actually, no one's going to say that.(00:06:02):No.(00:06:03):People seem to leave a lot of platters here.(00:06:05):So my platter collection has grown.(00:06:07):There's a couple of reasons that I believe this.(00:06:10):I believe that it's best to use what we have.(00:06:13):I believe that if you buy things that are paper and plastic that are single use,(00:06:18):you're doing a disservice to the experience because eating off of paper and with(00:06:23):plastic is not very satisfying.(00:06:25):And also it ends up in the trash.(00:06:28):And the other thing is I now have enough plates and there was a time when I was buying them.(00:06:34):So at some point you have to buy them.(00:06:35):I'm just saying, try not to get the one off and then borrow.(00:06:38):Many a friend has gotten a last minute, oh my gosh, I just realized that I do not have a(00:06:42):cutting board that's big enough for this gigantic ham.(00:06:45):Could you rescue me?(00:06:46):We've all been there.(00:06:47):So instead of going and buying one,(00:06:49):someone comes over,(00:06:50):hopefully on time with a gigantic cutting board.(00:06:53):While a cutting board in need is a great thing to ask a friend for,(00:06:58):rule three deals with something that people usually bring,(00:07:02):but never really give a thought of where they come from.(00:07:04):People who want to be good dinner guests often bring one of two things.(00:07:08):Wine, which is great as far as I'm concerned.(00:07:11):Fantastic.(00:07:12):And the second is flowers.(00:07:14):And I abhor cut flowers that are from the local bodega because those flowers are(00:07:21):part of the international flower trade,(00:07:24):which runs on bad labor practices.(00:07:27):M

From ripping it up on stage with Orchid to slinging cocktails at one of Canada's top bars, Jayson Green has built a life around making things that matter. On this week’s episode, the musician, bartender, and creative lifer shares his hard-earned Five Rules For Making Stuff. We talk about knowing what not to do, why money should never be your motivator, and how letting your skills catch up to your taste is part of the process. Whether you’re starting a band, opening a bar, or just trying to get that project off the ground, this episode is your DIY pep talk.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.[00:00:00] Darin Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I'm your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I'm excited to be joined by one of my favorite buds from Brooklyn, Jayon Green, who is the infamous. Frontman for the legendary hardcore band Orchid. He has gone on to front other projects like Cheeseburger and his current solo endeavor, Jayon Green and the Jerk currently has a delicious 12 inch out on DFA records. Most recently, his Toronto based bar, Doc's Green Door Lounge, was named the 15th best bar in all of Canada. He joins me today to share his five rules about making stuff. We talk about having a point of view, the importance of continuing to create, and his guiding principle of what should never be your main motivator. Let's get into the rules. Jayon, so great to see you. Always nice when two ex Brooklynites can chat coming from different parts of the world. Congratulations on your bar, Dock Stream Door Lounge, being named number 15th best bar in all of Canada. Thank you. Not surprised knowing who you are and what we're going to talk about today, but congratulations nonetheless.[00:01:08] Jayson Surprised. I didn't even know that these lists existed when we were starting off with the bar. The main thing is we're in this neighborhood in Toronto called The Junction, which is pretty far west, and my whole thing was kind of serving the neighborhood as best I could with a place that I wanted to go to. There was a real hunger for something like this to be here, and I'm very happy that people have responded so positively. The neighborhood's really, supportive and the city at large has been super supportive.[00:01:32] Darin Most people who move to a new country, like you did, would look at the surrounding neighborhood, wish they want a bar and hope someone else would make that for them. But what I've always enjoyed about you and our conversations over the year is that creativity and creating something has always been a part of your life, whether it's fronting a band or developing TV shows, starting a bar, why are you making stuff so important to you?[00:01:55] Jayson That's all I've ever known. Went to college, I wanted to be a film director, and then I ended up joining this band, Orchid, and we were playing shows and touring every break, and I ended leaving school. And then I was off on this trajectory. The only thing I was doing was singing in this mildly popular hardcore band. Give yourself credit. No, no, back then, when we were doing it, it was a mildly-popular hardcore band, and then, I was just in the world. That band ended, I was in another band with our mutual friend Justin Cherno called Panthers. That band ending and then I looked up, I had no discernible skills. I was just in bands and so this creative life had sustained me for so long. I was kind of thrown into the fire, like this is the way you create the opportunity yourself that's not really presented to you.[00:02:37] Darin Creating that opportunity, or even knowing that you can create something, is rarer than I expected. Because I come from a similar DIY background as you, it just was intuitive that if you want something and it's not out there, then create it for yourself. How has that fueled everything you've done, starting with being in a hardcore band from now opening a bar?[00:02:58] Jayson So much of it is you don't know that it's unusual. When I was in college, we were booking the shows. If a band was touring through town, we'd put them up at our college or we'd play at a local VFW hall or whatever it was. And then I moved to New York and I had never even really set foot in Brooklyn before and I moved into this loft in Dumbo and I was like, well, I guess I'll just do it at this loft too, cause it's big enough.[00:03:17] Darin All time.[00:03:18] Jayson You don't know that you're not supposed to do that. I mean, there's lots of failures that come along with that, but the arrogance of youth is such a big part of it too, is you just really think you're smarter and more capable than you probably actually are. And that comes with that as something that's sort of beautiful, is that you are able to accomplish a lot of things that probably as an adult, you might be more fearful to try.[00:03:38] Darin Yes. And I think not knowing what you can and can't do is a big part of getting things done. Yeah. But what I wish I had when I was a little bit younger are some guiding points of when I wanted to make stuff, which is why I'm happy to be talking with you today, because you're going to share with us your five rules for making stuff. And again, band, art project, award-winning bar, children, family, whatever you want to apply it to. I have found that making stuff does start from a couple of core principles. What is your first rule?[00:04:08] Jayson Know what you don't want to do. That's always been a big one for me. And I think it comes from coming from a punk rock, hardcore background. You see things you don't like more than you see things like.[00:04:21] Darin Oh yeah.[00:04:21] Jayson You kind of set things up where you're creating a framework standing against something. I am not willing to cross this line. I won't do this. I won't that and then kind of build it backwards. I find that to be a very helpful way to think about things. And it also avoids the issue of compromise. If you're from the get go saying, say, for example, with the bar, I'm not putting TVs in this place. We're not showing sports. That's one rule right off the top. And then if it comes up later, be like, no, that's a thing I won't do. I won't compromise on it. And this served me for the Orchid Reunions, for building the bar out, saying things that you aren't willing to do, or you find to be corny or not worthwhile, I think is a really great way to get things started in the creative process.[00:05:05] Darin I agree. And I think that rule number two is the other side of the coin. What's rule number[00:05:11] Jayson Rule number two is have a point of view. That's kind of the biggest for me. So much of creating anything is being authentic to yourself. It's about being true to your passions and things that you're interested in. And no matter how niche that thing may seem to be, if you're passionate about it, there's probably somebody else who will feel passionate about that same thing as well. People respond to authenticity as opposed to reaching for something that you think people will like, but it isn't coming really from who you are.[00:05:40] Darin I've always subscribed to the theory of a thousand true fans more than a broad point of view.[00:05:46] Jayson Think you find people respond to passion. You'll watch a documentary about a guy who makes sushi for a living and you may have no interest in sushi but watching this person's passion it's infectious and you'll find that people will respond to things that maybe they didn't even know that they were interested in if it feels like it's coming from this really passionate authentic place.[00:06:07] Darin One of the things about watching people who are so skilled and so talented is that it does create this internal yearning for you to go out and make something similar, but unfortunately, sometimes you don't have the exact skills to make what you want. What's rule number three.[00:06:22] Jayson You have to let your abilities catch up to your taste. This was a big lesson for me, especially after Orchid, which seemed like a thing that kind of magically fell into place. And the next Project Panthers was really just rode on the back of that, and it seemed to all kind of click together. And then after those things ended, I found myself wandering a bit and wondering and also feeling afraid to put things out into the world.[00:06:47] Darin Hmm[00:06:47] Jayson my inner critic and also the outer critics.[00:06:49] Darin You can just say Brooklyn at the time.[00:06:51] Jayson Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, a mutual friend of ours, who actually helped me design the bar here, Michael Vadino. I was talking to him at a bar once and I was working on something and I showed it to someone, another mutual friend, and they were very critical. They said, don't release this, You'll be embarrassed by this. And then I told Michael that, and he said, don't listen to these people, put it out, keep making work. It's all gonna click together at a certain point. And the things that are failures, no one's gonna remember except for you probably. You know, what's so bad about putting something creative into the world, good or bad? It's about honing your abilities, because all these things are a huge learning curve.[00:07:30] Darin 100%[00:07:31] Jayson And then the problem is I have so many friends that fall into this trap and they ever put anything out because they're so afraid of it not being perfect.[00:07:38] Darin Mhm.[00:07:39] Jayson But it's never gonna be perfect. You have to be okay with this idea that it's not gonna be a perfect, it's gonna be this imperfect thing, and then you're gonna move on to the next imperfect thing and then to the imperfect thing. I just think it's such an important lesson is to just make stuff. Do it. Finish projects. Start something and finish it.[00:07:54] Darin The biggest advice when I talk to people about making something is

I sit down with Jenny Goodman and Alex McCrery, the co-founders of TILIT and the creators of The Utility Show, to talk about what it means to build something that didn’t exist before. We dig into how they’ve redefined chef wear, what makes a trade show worth showing up for, and how they stay grounded in community while continuing to grow. Their five rules cover everything from designing with purpose to staying focused, and why authenticity isn’t a buzzword, it’s the baseline. If you’ve ever wanted to start something new, rethink how you connect with your audience, or want to know what it takes to create with intention, this episode’s for you.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.(0:00 - 3:04)Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I'm your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today I am joined by two industry innovators who have changed the way we think about chefware and culinary conferences. I sit down with Jenny Goodman, the CEO and co-founder of Tillet, and Alex McCreary, the CCO, co-founder of Tillet. They're also the two brains behind the Utility Conference, an independent-minded alternative to some of the larger, more corporate conferences that restaurant world has come to know. We chat about their design process, how they stay true to their original vision, and how they keep grounded and their focus clear so they can build bigger things for the community that loves them. Let's get into the rules. Jenny and Alex, thank you for taking the time to sit down to chat with me. Have you recovered from this year's very successful Utility Conference? No, like no. Yes, but like in the best possible way. We're still buzzing over here and I'm still catching up on sleep because it is a marathon, not a sprint. As you brought together so many people for this new type of industry conference, what were some of the inspiring things that you saw from other curators in the industry? We're always inspired by the industry and that's why we wanted to bring a lot of different elements under one roof. A lot of conferences that we see are a lot of trade shows in general. It's like we wanted to be the anti-trade show, right? Yes, we're all here for commerce and to connect and to be in community, but the programming should be really freaking awesome. So I think we took a lot of elements from a lot of events that we've just loved over the years and brought them all together. The pitch competition was inspired by us actually winning a grant from Chase 10 years ago. Some of the trends towards healthy living in the industry, I think are super inspiring. And this year we added in a run in the morning where Philips here from Comedore down in Austin came up and led a run. Instead of the old days of having a party, a trade show, and then getting plastered after together, there's these other things that people are doing that are building community while being healthy. And so I think that stuff's really inspiring. It seems that you have brought to life the best type of feedback loop where the inspiration just keeps pushing yourselves and other people forward to build on what's working, to build what's inspiring, and to create new things out of that. One of the biggest keys to success in any business and a relationship, anything, is your ability to listen and absorb and respond. That's one of the keys that has been our business is that we listen to our customer, that we work with our customer, our community. It's more than just a customer. And that's how you grow is you're actually working with people and not just saying, oh, this is what people should be doing, or this is what people should be wearing, or this is how people should be interfacing with our product. We're actually doing it all together. It is easy for someone on the outside to look at what you have built across the board and just go, how did that even get started? So I'm so excited that you are here today to share your five rules for creating things that didn't exist before. The very first rule is a similar starting point of where I begin all of my creative journeys. What's rule number one? Build what you wish existed for yourself. And I think we've done that with utility.(3:04 - 5:45)We showed up at traditional trade shows and didn't see ourselves represented by the folks who were walking the floor or the folks who were also there with us and felt that community and hospitality is so fun. And the way that we all normally come together and gather in a dining room is celebratory and it's all real authentic connections. And that just wasn't happening at the trade shows that were currently taking place. And so we thought there has to be one that we actually want to show up to, that other independent brands want to show up to, and that other independent restaurants want to show up to. So that's where we started with a test case for utility with our preheat back in 2023. And that was such a success and a good proof of concept that for the last two years, we've done a full-blown trade show for independent brands and restaurants, which has been amazing. It's been a beautiful thing to watch grow. I remember the first one. From the very beginning, the idea and the impetus of Tila was that I wanted better, cooler, more functional, more pride-inducing clothing. I was in a position where I had gone from being a chef in a big restaurant with a bunch of other cooks that were all wearing the same goofy outfit to being in someone's house by myself wearing one goofy outfit and just felt really silly, a little bit embarrassed. And some of those things didn't add up to me with what the culture of being a cool chef was. And I just thought that was silly and displaced. If there's a jacket that I think I want, but doesn't exist, then we find a way to make it and it becomes a Tila product. Sometimes that's the best products are the ones that you actually want. Seeing something out in the real world that isn't quite made for your particular use can be inspiring, but also frustrating because then you have to transfer what you like about it into something that works for you. What's rule number two? Rule number two is to design with utility first. It's a Cortana name, Tila comes from the word utility. Obviously, you want amazing, beautiful, aesthetic things, but if it doesn't have a function, then it doesn't really need to exist. And there's plenty of that too out there, s**t that just hangs on your wall. Our goal and our idea is that everything starts with a reason, whether it's a better pair of pants for women in the kitchen because they just don't exist, or a jumpsuit or an apron with moisture wicking and repellent qualities to it, it has to work. It has to stand the test of time. It has to be able to be washed a hundred thousand times because that's what people in the kitchen are doing. And then from there, it's like, yeah, let's do all the other fun things. Let's make it streetwear. Let's make it temporary. Let's make it the baddest thing out there. But if it doesn't work, then you shouldn't even begin messing with all the other pieces of it. And once you start messing with it, and once you start borrowing from different parts of other products or other things that are being created, it can be very hard to hold on to what is your rule number three. Rule number three is be authentic. The big A word.(5:45 - 5:48)The big A word. I know. And it's such a buzzword sometimes.(5:48 - 7:12)I know. I know. I cringe a little bit, but we've been talking about authenticity since we started the company 12 years ago because authentically we needed these products. Alex was a chef. I met him working front of house. We are authentically hospitality people. And when we looked at what was happening in the chef apparel industry and in workwear for chefs, it was not designed by people who worked in restaurants. It was not thought of by people who knew this community. That's really where we come to this lens of authentically knowing and loving this product because we lived and breathed it. And similar with utility and the trade show is the big, large, huge conglomerate trade shows that are out there for the hospitality industry are not run by industry insiders who do know what the day to day struggles are of an independent restaurant or independent brand. When you want to be in community with somebody, it has to start from a place of understanding that community authentically. Coming from inside the world, being both back of house, in front of house, and being authentic to your mission has allowed you to grow your rule number four. Rule number four is build community. From the beginning, that's what we were. Let's hang out with more friends. Let's make more friends. Let's spread the love. Let's share the ideas. And that's exactly what we've done. And I think to Jenny's credit in creating utility, it's all about community. And I think one of the biggest takeaways from this year was how many people, brands, exhibitors, speakers walked away from it feeling that community.(7:13 - 8:33)It's not because we put the word community all over the trade show. It's because they were there and they felt it. That's just such a powerful feeling to say, oh s**t, we accomplished what we set out to do. Obviously, always continue to build and strengthen and grow your community, but to have them recognize that's why it's there. It's not there as the shopping experience or this way to make money as a small business. It's more. When we think about what makes a brand and what makes a defensible brand, it's people buying in because you've created something that makes them feel something. And that's what we believe in our trying to do. It's the same thing when you go to a great restaurant. It's the same thing about great hospitality. You don't necessarily remember every single dish and every single ingredient, but you remember how you felt

Darin is joined by author and content creator Danny Freeman to talk about his new cookbook, Italianish: Modern Twists on Classic Italian Flavors, out August 26. They dive into how his grandma shaped his love for Italian cooking, why tradition is meant to evolve, and what it means to bring creativity into the kitchen without losing its soul. Danny shares his Five Rules for Modernizing Italian food, from changing up formats to embracing shortcuts, and even using an ingredient rarely seen in a nonna’s kitchen. It’s a warm, honest conversation about honoring where you come from while cooking for the life you’re living now. If you’ve ever wanted to shake up a classic red sauce or make a lasagna your own, this one’s for you.A message from the Independent Hospitality Coalition for those being affected by ICE raids in Los Angeles:Attention restaurant owners, be prepared. Thank you to everyone who has shared information that has allowed us to plan.As if restaurant owners and hospitality workers did not have enough to worry about. Our kitchens are what they are because of are immigrant community. ICE is plucking people from our community in the name of law and order, we know the truth.History will remember this moment.Un mensaje de la Independent Hospitality Coalition para quienes están siendo afectados por las redadas de ICE en Los Ángeles:Atención dueños de restaurantes: prepárense. Gracias a todos los que han compartido información que nos ha permitido organizarnos.Como si los dueños de restaurantes y trabajadores de hospitalidad no tuvieran ya suficientes preocupaciones. Nuestras cocinas son lo que son gracias a nuestra comunidad inmigrante. ICE está arrancando a personas de nuestra comunidad en nombre de la ley y el orden —pero nosotros conocemos la verdad.La historia recordará este momento.[00:00:00] Darin Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I'm your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, we are chatting with author and content creator, Danny Freeman, whose new book, Italianish, Modern Twists on Classic Italian Flavors, comes out on August 26th. We have a. Fun conversation about his deep love and deep roots tied to Italian cooking. We talked about how he honors his grandmother's approach in the kitchen, how he's updated some of his favorite dishes for his family and a secret ingredient that you shouldn't be afraid to use when cooking some of your favorite Italian recipes. Let's get into the rules. Danny, it's so nice to meet you. Congratulations on your second book, Italian-ish modern twist on classic Italian flavor. How does book number two feel compared to book number one?[00:00:54] Danny It's exciting. It's very exciting. I would say it was easier in some ways because I had been through it before, but a lot harder in other ways. My first book was really a manual on how to make fresh pasta, which is something I have done a million times. This is a more traditional cookbook in that it's got soup, salad, appetizers, desserts. I was coming up with a hundred plus recipes from scratch and making them all over and over again and testing them, so it was exciting, but it a lot of work.[00:01:20] Darin I have to imagine like any sort of first album you get to pull from a whole lifetime of recipes and stories and experiences. And the second one is usually coming a lot faster and with pretty much all new stuff.[00:01:30] Danny Definitely. I mean, for both books, I pulled a lot from my childhood and food that I ate when I was growing up, but I couldn't reuse stories and recipes in the second book that I used up in the first one.[00:01:40] Darin Whenever I've worked on cooking shows in the past, I had Italian recipes. If we had any sort of variation, people would lose their minds, which I know something that you had to deal with a ton of times, but when you go to Italy, the whole country's variations, how do you handle that type of, let's say viewer and reader feedback?[00:01:58] Danny I get that all the time. I love cooking Italian-American food, but I also like giving it a twist. I mean, the book is called Italian-ish because it's not perfectly traditional. So I get a lot of feedback from people who love that. And then I get lot of from people who are very traditional and think you can never deviate at all from the food that they ate when they were growing up. But honestly, I believe that that's the way we should be eating food. Food should be exciting. It should make it work for your life. So I am very comfortable with people giving me a hard time about some of the things that I make, but I promise I'm never coming to anyone's house and forcing them to cook my way. I'm just offering my take on things.[00:02:32] Darin And there's only so many classic red sauce recipes you can make. And most of those classic ones have been perfected. So you got to try something new. You got to put your own spin on it. Exactly. I love in your videos and in the book and a lot of the stories, how much you incorporate your family, your husband, your kids, and how important it is to cook for them. Why does that matter so much to you to bring your family into your kitchen and to everything you do?[00:02:54] Danny I have a one-year-old and a four-year old. They are... Big inspiration for this book. I really started getting seriously into cooking when my grandmother passed away and my first daughter was born. And I was sort of at this life moment where I was reflecting on a lot of my traditions growing up and food that we ate, but also thinking a lot about, well, what am I gonna pass on to my children and what are the traditions I'm going to make for them? That had such a big impact on my food and the way I cook, drawing from my past, but thinking about how do I make it modern for my kids? How do I bring them in? How do we make it fun for them, how do we expose them to lots of different foods? The cookbook is a lot about taking those flavors that I loved growing up, but trying them in a new way. All of that was floating around in my brain as I was writing this book, and also just trying to get dinner on the table every single night with the kids.[00:03:38] Darin I love taking something that you grew up with, these classic Italian recipes from your grandmother and making them your own. So let's get into your five rules for modernizing Italian food. And the first one is something that I'd like to do for my family. What is your rule one?[00:03:53] Danny Rule one, every tradition is just an innovation that stuck. The food that my grandmother made, that my great grandparents ate, my great great grandparents made, they're just trying to get food on the table, trying to use the ingredients that they had. That's how it was throughout Italy, using fresh ingredients that were available, things that they could get cheaply. It's only over time that we have now said it has to be done exactly this way every single time. Families were trying different things, and then some of those became traditions that we now eat. So I try and keep that in mind now when I'm cooking. All of these things that I'm trying, Some of them may become traditions for my family, even if they haven't been in the past. And I think that people should honor and respect the food that they like, of course, but be open to trying something a different way that works for them, even if it's a little bit different than what they've done before.[00:04:36] Darin I love your approach of adding in new or variations of an ingredient to create your own take on a dish. And another way to do this is to take familiar flavors and change how it's presented. What is rule number two?[00:04:49] Danny Changing the form of a traditional dish can make it feel fresh. I did a lot of this in Italian-ish because this is a trick that I use a lot when I'm cooking for my family. If I think of a great meal that my kids like, like a lasagna, I don't necessarily have time to make that every night. Or as often as I'd like, but you could take it in a new form, the lasagna soup, where you know they're gonna like the flavors, but it's faster, easier. Another favorite of mine from the book is an Orecchiette and broccoli rabe soup with sausage. I love that pasta dish, it's very traditional. And I love to make it as a soup because it can last all week. Very homey in the winter. A lot of times I make salads that are inspired by other dishes. In the cookbook, I have a beef brujole inspired salads. You know you're already gonna like it, because you know you like those flavors, but it feels new and exciting because it's a different format.[00:05:35] Darin While rule number one and rule number two deal with using new ingredients and approaches to modernize Italian cooking, I believe that by truly practicing rule number three, it allows you to push your cooking in an even more modern direction. What is your third rule?[00:05:51] Danny Rule number three, focus on simple, fresh ingredients. Obviously, I did not invent that rule. That's really critical in Italian cooking. Think of something like a caprese salad. It's very simple. Tomato, mozzarella, basil. But if you're using really great tomatoes in summer and fresh basil, that's really all you need. Maybe just a little salt, olive oil, vinegar, you're good to go. When I was writing this book... My family spent a summer in Italy. Love it. And this was my first time in Italy with a baby and a toddler. In the past, my husband and I had gone to nice restaurants. We'd go to wine bars, we'd sit and drink. Obviously it was a little bit different with young kids. And so we were eating a lot more quick meals, street food, bread and cheese. And that really helped me focus on just, all right, we can get really good produce and that can be a meal and we don't need a whole lot else. Just few simple things.[00:06:35] Darin One of the greatest joys about traveling with children is cooking on vacation and no better country than Italy.[00:06:42] Danny Yes, we spent a few days in Genoa.[00:06:44] Dar

Darin sits down with winemaker, designer, and storyteller André Hueston Mack to talk about his Five Rules for Building a Life You Don’t Want to Escape From. From walking away from the corporate grind to finding unexpected inspiration in reruns of Frasier, André shares how betting on himself, mastering his craft, and embracing contradiction have shaped his path. They talk wine, family dinners, legacy, and why telling your story—your way—matters. It's honest, funny, and packed with wisdom for anyone ready to take that first leap. Pour a glass of Maison Noir and press play.Photo by Danielle SimoneA message from the Independent Hospitality Coalition for those being affected by ICE raids in Los Angeles:Attention restaurant owners, be prepared. Thank you to everyone who has shared information that has allowed us to plan.As if restaurant owners and hospitality workers did not have enough to worry about. Our kitchens are what they are because of are immigrant community. ICE is plucking people from our community in the name of law and order, we know the truth.History will remember this moment.Un mensaje de la Independent Hospitality Coalition para quienes están siendo afectados por las redadas de ICE en Los Ángeles:Atención dueños de restaurantes: prepárense. Gracias a todos los que han compartido información que nos ha permitido organizarnos.Como si los dueños de restaurantes y trabajadores de hospitalidad no tuvieran ya suficientes preocupaciones. Nuestras cocinas son lo que son gracias a nuestra comunidad inmigrante. ICE está arrancando a personas de nuestra comunidad en nombre de la ley y el orden —pero nosotros conocemos la verdad.La historia recordará este momento.(00:00:00):Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life.(00:00:02):I'm your host, Darin Bresnitz.(00:00:04):Today,(00:00:04):I'm joined by Andre Houston Mack,(00:00:06):sommelier at large and winemaker whose Maison Noir wines are some of the best(00:00:11):tasting and best designed wines to come out of America these days.(00:00:16):He shares with us his five rules for building a life you don't want to escape from.(00:00:20):We chat about his proverbial fork in the road when he chose to bet on himself.(00:00:24):how being present at your own family table is just as important,(00:00:29):if not more so than sitting in the boardroom and how tossed salad and scrambled(00:00:34):eggs gave them the confidence to step into the wine world.(00:00:37):Let's get into the rules.(00:00:42):Andre, so great to see you.(00:00:44):First chat of the summer officially.(00:00:47):And I couldn't think of a better person to kick the season off with than you.(00:00:51):Thanks for sitting down.(00:00:51):Thanks for having me, man.(00:00:52):I'm super excited.(00:00:53):Yeah, definitely kind of first day of summer.(00:00:55):I just shipped my family off to Vermont early this morning.(00:00:57):So I have the house to myself and I'm feeling pretty proud and relaxed to have this(00:01:01):conversation.(00:01:02):It can seem like such a simple thing,(00:01:03):getting your family off on summer vacation,(00:01:05):creating this space for you to have this conversation.(00:01:08):But I know that you've worked really hard to get to this point in your life.(00:01:11):And not everyone has a clear delineation of that start of when their life that they(00:01:17):wanted to begins to happen.(00:01:20):But you do because you did what so many people dream about.(00:01:23):You walked away from the corporate world.(00:01:24):What was that moment like?(00:01:26):What was the thing that pushed you over the edge?(00:01:28):I just wasn't fulfilled at work.(00:01:30):I was a licensed stock broker, but we didn't actually give any advice.(00:01:33):This was before the smartphone.(00:01:35):So all we really did was give stock quotes.(00:01:37):And I came from a background of restaurants where you interacted with people all(00:01:41):day long on a 12 hour shift.(00:01:43):wasn't like that there.(00:01:44):And I just realized that this is good, but it's not great.(00:01:48):The moment really came where it was a fork in the road.(00:01:51):Travelers Group bought Citibank.(00:01:53):And at that moment,(00:01:53):they said,(00:01:54):hey,(00:01:54):you're not losing your job,(00:01:55):but you can reapply or you can take severance.(00:01:58):And I had never heard of severance.(00:01:59):I didn't know what that was.(00:02:00):That was the moment where I realized that this is cool and fun,(00:02:03):but I could probably work a little bit harder and make the same amount of money.(00:02:06):But also, even if I made less money,(00:02:08):It was just a thing of feeling in control and feeling fulfilled at the end of the day.(00:02:12):I just felt like a drone in a way and couldn't really have my own personality,(00:02:16):but it was that defining moment.(00:02:17):And that's where I decided that I'm no longer going to do this.(00:02:20):Not to jump ahead,(00:02:21):but you are now a designer,(00:02:23):sommelier,(00:02:23):author,(00:02:24):winemaker,(00:02:25):but you had to start somewhere.(00:02:26):When you left the corporate world,(00:02:28):what was the first role you picked to lay the foundation of the life you wanted?(00:02:32):I ran back to an industry that I had already been in.(00:02:35):All throughout college, I had waited tables in restaurants.(00:02:38):All those things that you just listed,(00:02:39):never in a million years would I ever thought that that's what I was going to do.(00:02:43):Even at that moment, at the fork in the road.(00:02:45):And I had time to dream.(00:02:48):I had time to think about the things that I wanted or to collect my ideas.(00:02:53):At that time, I took the severance and decided.(00:02:55):had basically more time than money, right?(00:02:57):Because I knew that money was going to run out and was trying to think about what do you do now?(00:03:00):That comes exhaustive and I would fall asleep on the sofa.(00:03:03):And when I would wake back up, they would be paying back to back to back episodes of Frasier.(00:03:07):And that was a little bit of an escape.(00:03:09):They just started talking about wine.(00:03:11):Wow.(00:03:11):And I didn't know much about wine.(00:03:13):Before I left to work in finance,(00:03:15):I worked at Red Lobster all throughout college and they had three wines on the wine(00:03:19):list and they were all white Zinfandel.(00:03:21):Right.(00:03:21):So I didn't know anything about wine,(00:03:23):but I was curious and they seemed like they were having fun.(00:03:27):And at this moment,(00:03:28):I was at a pivotal moment in my life and I felt,(00:03:30):well,(00:03:30):if they're drinking wine and having fun,(00:03:31):maybe that will make me happy.(00:03:33):Maybe that will be fun for me.(00:03:34):And by watching that show,(00:03:36):it gave me the courage to walk into a wine shop for the first time in my life.(00:03:39):Because from the outside looking in,(00:03:41):if you don't see anybody that looks like you,(00:03:43):you didn't think it was for you.(00:03:44):I say this all the time.(00:03:45):The greatest foil to pretension is humor.(00:03:48):Somehow it felt like I could arm myself with a comedic antidotes, right?(00:03:51):You know what I mean?(00:03:52):And I got to talk to people.(00:03:53):That initial thing of being afraid or being intimidated went away.(00:03:56):It's amazing to hear you at the start,(00:04:00):at this fork,(00:04:00):that first step into the wine world and to see your success now.(00:04:04):And it's even easier if you're sitting at home and seeing what you're up to on social media.(00:04:09):I think it's a straight path,(00:04:10):but we all know of those who've journeyed on that road that is far from straight,(00:04:14):far from easy.(00:04:15):Correct.(00:04:15):Was there any point,(00:04:17):especially in the early years,(00:04:18):that you questioned your decision to build this life for yourself?(00:04:21):Absolutely.(00:04:22):I still do today.(00:04:24):Sure.(00:04:25):Yeah.(00:04:26):Steve Jobs said, it always feels like a house of cards.(00:04:29):And in some ways it should feel that way, that it could all go away.(00:04:32):That's the driving force of why I work so hard.(00:04:34):So maybe you can take a few steps away every now and then.(00:04:37):It's really good to be able to build and retreat and look at what you put together(00:04:42):and then make adjustments and(00:04:44):And that's why I'm so excited to have you here today.(00:04:46):Yes.(00:04:46):So we can talk about your five rules for building a life you don't want to escape from.(00:04:51):Absolutely.(00:04:51):I want to go back to that very first moment.(00:04:54):Not only does it take that right mindset to walk away from something familiar,(00:04:58):you also need to have this other belief.(00:05:00):What's your rule number one?(00:05:01):Rule number one is bet on yourself, even when no one else will.(00:05:04):Only you know what you're capable of.(00:05:06):Only you know where you want to go.(00:05:08):And you know, I always say eyes on the prize, even the days that you're frustrated.(00:05:12):It's a saying so much that my wife adopted it.(00:05:14):I watched too many movies when I was a young kid.(00:05:16):I always thought that I'm going to work really hard and I'm working at Red Lobster.(00:05:20):I'm putting the sauces on the plate and somebody in the dining room is going to see(00:05:23):you through those double doors.(00:05:25):how hard I'm working.(00:05:26):And they're going to say, hey, kid, and offer me a job and change my life.(00:05:29):And after a few years, I realized that wasn't going to happen.(00:05:32):And the person that was going to come into my life and change my life was going to(00:05:35):have to be me.(00:05:36):That is where it all changed.(00:05:38):You're the one that's in control.(00:05:39):And sometimes you have to do a little juke move, right?(00:05:42):Sometimes you have to do a spin move.(00:05:43):You

Darin is joined by Katherine Lewin, founder and CEO of Big Night, one of his favorite shops—and one of his biggest sources of dinner party inspiration. She shares her five rules for opening a shop, building community, and creating a brand with purpose. They talk about what it takes to open a physical store, why starting small matters, how storytelling can transform a retail experience, and why the best decisions often come from trusting your gut. If you've ever dreamed of starting your own business or want to host better dinner parties, this one’s for you.A message from the Independent Hospitality Coalition for those being affected by ICE raids in Los Angeles:Attention restaurant owners, be prepared. Thank you to everyone who has shared information that has allowed us to plan.As if restaurant owners and hospitality workers did not have enough to worry about. Our kitchens are what they are because of are immigrant community. ICE is plucking people from our community in the name of law and order, we know the truth.History will remember this moment.Un mensaje de la Independent Hospitality Coalition para quienes están siendo afectados por las redadas de ICE en Los Ángeles:Atención dueños de restaurantes: prepárense. Gracias a todos los que han compartido información que nos ha permitido organizarnos.Como si los dueños de restaurantes y trabajadores de hospitalidad no tuvieran ya suficientes preocupaciones. Nuestras cocinas son lo que son gracias a nuestra comunidad inmigrante. ICE está arrancando a personas de nuestra comunidad en nombre de la ley y el orden —pero nosotros conocemos la verdad.La historia recordará este momento.[00:00:00] Darin Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I'm your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I am joined by one of my favorite small business owners and dinner party inspirations, Katherine Lewin, who's the founder and CEO of Big Night. We chat about her five rules for opening up a shop, how to stay focused, how storytelling is a big part of selling. And at the end of the day, one of the most important things you can do is to trust your gut. Let's get into the rules. Katherine, always a pleasure to see you. Congratulations on the expansion of the original Greenpoint Big Night Shop. How does it feel?[00:00:38] Katherine Feels amazing. I'm coming to you live from our backyard, which was part of the original space, but now feels even more special. The interior is three times the size. We just have room to spread out. It feels great.[00:00:52] Darin I love how humble you're being because you're coming from the backyard because the store is so packed on a Thursday afternoon that you actually can't do the interview in there.[00:00:59] Katherine That's one way to frame it. Darin, that's a reframe that I like. It's all thanks to our customers who are the kind of people who wanna come shop or whatever they might need, whether it's a fancy ingredient or a gift for their sister or a little pick me up on a Thursday afternoon and we love them for it.[00:01:14] Darin You're there to really support the community. How does it feel to become an integral part of your neighborhood?[00:01:21] Katherine There's a lot of rewarding feelings about this job, but I would definitely rank it in the top. No one sets out to make a brick and mortar retail store just to do business. For all of us who open actual physical shop, that sense of community and that sense of creating a place for our people, that is why you do it.[00:01:37] Darin You know, you're almost four years in now to the store.[00:01:40] Katherine Okay.[00:01:40] Darin How does it feel to have gone from the original vision to this expanded version and to see it grow?[00:01:47] Katherine I can't believe it's been four years, first of all. In the beginning, the vision was so, I don't wanna use the word small, but it was really focused because I knew I needed to start small to gain the confidence to execute on this larger vision. And now we've really evolved into a brand that I hope stands for helping people live the good life at home. That's really what I want for people to take away from the shop and the brand and it feels we're making better and better on that promise.[00:02:16] Darin It's amazing and very inspirational. And that's why I'm so excited to be chatting with you today about the beginning because every successful store had to open its doors for the first time. Yes. So I'd love to hear your five rules for opening a shop with the first rule being about being very focused when you first open those doors.[00:02:33] Katherine My rule number one, start small. Be confident in your little corner of the world. And also starting small helps protect you from risk. I didn't know anything about opening a brick and mortar physical store other than I had this weird urge to do it. We were coming off of the worst lockdown part of the pandemic. I was craving IRL experiences, just like everybody else. I also was craving shopping experiences. I was tired of living my life online. And I just had the feeling that physical retail was really going to be something that people would be excited about. A. And B. Dinner parties. I just kept thinking about dinner parties. It was 2020 and everyone was cooking so elaborately, but no one was gathering. I became kind of obsessed with, Wow, dinner parties are gonna feel so amazing when it's safe enough for us to gather at home again. So I thought, what if there was a place where people could get everything they needed for dinner parties? That alone is kind of specific prompt, right? When it stopped becoming just a thought and it started becoming, how do I action on this? Mm-hmm. First thing that comes to mind is what's the space going to be, right? It's a physical store. And when I found my space, I saw it's 240 square foot floor plan. And I thought that size is perfect. Everyone else was like, what, I'm sorry. How many that 240 square feet floor plan? Made me feel like. I might not know all the ins and outs of this and I can stock the shelves. I alone can staff the shop if I need to. It was a bite-sized store and that is what paved the way for me to confidently and intentionally grow because I started from a place where I didn't automatically feel like I was biting off more than I could chew.[00:04:09] Darin And being that size forces you to be very specific, which ties directly into rule number[00:04:15] Katherine My rule number two, know your value proposition. What specific thing or service are you offering? When you're starting out, you have to be able to quickly tell someone, why does this physical space exist? It exists because I want you to have everything you need for a dinner party all in one place. Listen, a lot of people would walk in and say, well, I never have dinner parties, so like is this store not for me? And then it's your job to expand on that and explain. A dinner party could be 10 of you seated for dinner, or a dinner pretty could be you and a friend having a killer pizza that you got from delivery and a great bottle of wine and fancy wineglasses and then it's your version of a big night. Starting from that very specific value prop of a dinner party shop gives you that niche and that specificity really helps people wrap their head around why they should be interested in the concept.[00:05:03] Darin What I've always loved about the concept, everything that Big Night touches, you can feel that it's telling a story, which I've been a big believer in when you're looking for success, is about storytelling. And whether that's a TV show or a cookbook, telling a storytelling is really what's gonna drive you. What's rule number three?[00:05:20] Katherine And rule number three, don't sell, tell. Storytelling is so key to Big Night. When I first opened the store, I literally wrote more product storytelling signage than we had space for on our shelves. Like I could not fit all the signage. I didn't want people to just buy a $38 bottle of olive oil and then get home and be like, why did I spend my $38 on olive oil? I wanted to tell them, here are the makers who made this olive oil in Calabria. Here's how they recommend you enjoy it. Here's how I like to enjoy it, giving people background on these products that makes them feel more connected to that small maker and then also suddenly gives them a new avenue to try an olive oil in a way they haven't before. It's important to me that the store never feels like just a place where transactions happen. People wanna hear about where they're putting their dollars, especially food and personal items on their dinner table are coming from. It's really important to tell those stories to your customers and bring them in on why you as the shop owner or the buyer are so excited about them.[00:06:21] Darin It really helps when you reach for a bottle of wine, even salt, pepper, anything to know who's behind it, because you can't get so disconnected when almost everything you get is either online or at a chain store. So being able to connect with your customers and tell them stories serves such a great purpose. And the other thing I like about you having a physical store is that they also tell you things. So what's rule number four.[00:06:44] Katherine Rule number four, listen to your customers. I like to think my secret weapon of having a physical store is I have a constant 24-7 real-time feedback loop with my customers.[00:06:54] Darin Whether you like it or not.[00:06:55] Katherine Yeah and everybody who works with me in the shop knows it is so important to listen. It is so important when anyone gives any feedback whether the feedback is hey I tried this product and I found this part of it confusing or the feedback, is hey why don't you carry more butter dishes or the feed back is I see a lot of products from Italy but have you seen this olive oil from Portugal? I'm really interested in it and we actually have a slack channel.[00:07:19] Darin Hmm[00:07:20] Katherine If a

In this special episode, Darin welcomes Brittney Valles, founding member of the Independent Hospitality Coalition (IHC), for a timely and urgent conversation. With ICE activity increasing in Los Angeles and the National Guard deployed, Brittney outlines the rights every hospitality worker should know during an immigration raid.From how to assert your right to remain silent to using the ILRC Red Card as a tool of protection, this episode is a vital listen for anyone in the industry—or anyone who cares about it. For more resources or to connect with IHC directly, visit their official site or follow them on Instagram at @ihc.la.En este episodio especial, Darin recibe a Brittney Valles, miembro fundadora de la Independent Hospitality Coalition (IHC), para una conversación tan oportuna como urgente. Con el aumento de la actividad de ICE en Los Ángeles y el despliegue de la Guardia Nacional, Brittney explica los derechos que todo trabajador de la hospitalidad debe conocer durante una redada migratoria.Desde cómo ejercer tu derecho a permanecer en silencio hasta cómo usar la Tarjeta Roja del ILRC como herramienta de protección, este episodio es una escucha esencial para cualquiera que trabaje en la industria —o que se preocupe por ella—. Para más recursos o para conectar directamente con IHC, visita su sitio oficial o síguelos en Instagram en @ihc.la.A message from the Independent Hospitality Coalition for those being affected by ICE raids in Los Angeles:Attention restaurant owners, be prepared. Thank you to everyone who has shared information that has allowed us to plan.As if restaurant owners and hospitality workers did not have enough to worry about. Our kitchens are what they are because of are immigrant community. ICE is plucking people from our community in the name of law and order, we know the truth.History will remember this moment.Un mensaje de la Independent Hospitality Coalition para quienes están siendo afectados por las redadas de ICE en Los Ángeles:Atención dueños de restaurantes: prepárense. Gracias a todos los que han compartido información que nos ha permitido organizarnos. Como si los dueños de restaurantes y trabajadores de hospitalidad no tuvieran ya suficientes preocupaciones. Nuestras cocinas son lo que son gracias a nuestra comunidad inmigrante. ICE está arrancando a personas de nuestra comunidad en nombre de la ley y el orden —pero nosotros conocemos la verdad.La historia recordará este momento.[00:00:00] Darin Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I'm your host, Darin Bresnitz. Given the unfolding events of both ICE and now the National Guard being deployed in Los Angeles, I wanted to invite Brittney Valles and the IHC on for a special episode this week. Brittney is a founding member of the Independent Hospitality Coalition. For those who are unaware of this incredible organization, it is a coalition of Los Angeles hospitality operators, advocates, and workers whose purpose is to provide representation for the city's growing workforce and essential businesses. Their existence and purpose has never been needed more than right now. I wanted to invite Brittney on to share IHC's five individual rights during an ICE raid. There is a lot of great information that I will be linking to in the episode description and if the links aren't available where you're listening to this, please go to 5rules.substack.com slash podcast. In this episode, she shares key information about what to do in those first few moments. When ICE agents arrive at a restaurant where you work, about having the immigrant legal resource centers red card on hand at all times, and the importance of having a professional advocate or lawyer on your side. It's a really important and educational episode, and I feel very lucky that she took the time out of what is surely a busy time for her and the entire organization. So let's get into your rights. Brittney, thank you for taking the time to sit down with me during a very frightening and uncertain time in the LA hospitality scene and Los Angeles at large. I really appreciate it.[00:01:45] Brittney Yeah, of course. Thanks for having me.[00:01:47] Darin It's been an extremely disruptive and unsettling week in the city. People can see one thing on the news and it's different what you're seeing being on the ground. Can you share some of the details of what you see?[00:01:58] Brittney Aside from members of our community, as far as kitchen staff and service staff being alarmed and unsure what restaurant or what neighborhood is going to be invaded by ice necks, there's also a lot of fear tactics being put out there by media and our lovely president. And so even if your restaurant isn't really in the line of fire, people aren't coming to LA. Some restaurants are having to reduce hours because their staff is afraid, despite their status. Just because we're seeing things that are unprecedented, where people are getting taken accidentally, despite whether they have a work permit, have permanent residency, it's really, really scary right now. And I think there's so much uncertainty on top of everything that we've been dealing with for the past couple of years in LA, as far as food and beverage.[00:02:47] Darin Seeing restaurants like Lasita and other places having to close or reduce their hours is just one more hardship that they've had to endure after the strikes and the fires and now this.[00:02:57] Brittney So, yeah.[00:02:58] Darin How is the restaurant community being affected at large?[00:03:01] Brittney I've had a lot of people tell me that staff's not coming, and so they have clothes for a day, or there's people who are scared, and so, they're gonna have to figure out alternatives to make them safe or make them comfortable. A lot of conversations are being had. I had a family friend who lives in the Inland Empire tell me she is canceling all her jobs in LA because they have a plumbing company.[00:03:21] Darin You don't want to[00:03:22] Brittney They don't want to send their staff down here. Every person that's not here, it's one ticket. One less person to order food or to purchase a beverage. It's really stressful. Aside from the fact that we have militarized individuals on our street popping tear gas and all that, there's also the economic implications. It's a super stressful situation.[00:03:41] Darin It's really stressful and there's a lot of uncertainty, but despite all that, there has been really quick mobilizations from groups like the IHC and other grassroots organizations. I don't know if hope and inspiration are the right words to use at the time, but what is giving you some positive forward momentum?[00:03:58] Brittney People are really rallying together with this issue, regardless of your politics. I think seeing families being ripped apart in the way that it's happening, it's enough for people to be like, no, no. Not in our city. And so that gives me a lot of hope. And then so many people are willing to donate resources. The Independent Hospitality Coalition is gonna be co-hosting an event next week for restaurant owners, restaurant managers, bar managers. To get more informed, those of us that have, don't feel the fear of our citizenship status are rallying behind those that may, and again, it's not only people that may be undocumented or may not have the correct documents, it is people that just got citizenship, right? Because there's that five-year grace period after citizenship, green card holders. There's so much gray area with how this administration is enforcing what they're enforcing, seeing everybody rallying around this community of immigrants and not just because of what they produce in work, but just because these are members of our community, it's really a beautiful thing to see in stressful time.[00:05:00] Darin Given the administration's promise of 30 days of ICE raids and even today's announcement of the National Guard being here for 60 days, what I found really helpful was your recent post about what people can do to protect themselves. So I'd love to get into the five individual rights during an ICE raid, starting with right number one, which is as simple as not opening the door.[00:05:22] Brittney We're seeing ICE work outside of the boundaries of the law, but this is kind of the best that we can do. Not allowing access is your right. Private areas are not allowed to be searched without a warrant, and judges are not handing out warrants willy-nilly right now. Administrative order is not the same as a signed order by a judge. And so if you have clear signage that this is employees only private area, no access without owner's permission, it's pretty clear that they cannot go into those areas, owners labeling all the private areas, all the safe havens in the restaurant. So if ICE does show up or the National Guard or the Marines or whoever is going to be thrown at us next, there's a place that was dedicated and sealed off for everybody to go and making sure that you have that space and you talk to your staff. OK, I shows up. This is where we're all going. And again, it doesn't matter your document status, just go over there because we don't need to be, oh, who's this and who's that? Everybody needs to just go into the safe place because we're trying to make coffee, we're try to make tacos, whatever it is, we're not trying to deal with federal agents enforcing immigration status.[00:06:26] Darin If these ICE agents don't play by the rules and do come into a private space, what is your second right and how to deal with them?[00:06:34] Brittney Your second right is to remain silent. You don't have to say anything. They cannot force you to say anything. They might use fear tactics that are like, well, we're going to arrest you if you don't say this or we're gonna arrest you. If you don't show us your immigration status, maintain your Fifth Amendment and say nothing because fear tactics and getting people to react off emotion is the biggest card that th

Photo by Andre BaranowskiDarin sits down with writer, journalist, and Esquire editor Jeff Gordinier to talk about the blues—how to face them, move through them, and maybe, just maybe, how to feel a little better by week’s end. Jeff shares five deeply personal practices that have helped him stay grounded through life’s ups and downs—from long walks and deep sleep to seeing friends IRL and reading poetry like prayer. If you’re feeling a little off lately, this episode is your gentle reminder to slow down, pay attention, and take care.A message from the Independent Hospitality Coalition for those being affected by ICE raids in Los Angeles: Attention restaurant owners, be prepared. Thank you to everyone who has shared information that has allowed us to plan.As if restaurant owners and hospitality workers did not have enough to worry about. Our kitchens are what they are because of are immigrant community. ICE is plucking people from our community in the name of law and order, we know the truth.History will remember this moment.[00:00:00] Darin Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I'm your host, Darin Bresnitz. I'm so excited to be joined by my friend and colleague, Jeff Gordinier. You may know him from his work in Esquire, writing about some of America's best restaurants. He's also an author, poet, and all around great guy. Today, he shares his five rules for curing the blues, or at least getting halfway there. He talks about finding the right balance of exercise. Sleep and connecting with friends. It's a really great and inspiring conversation.Please note that the content of our conversation is provided for general information only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. If you or anyone is suffering from depression or any type of harmful thoughts, please call the suicide and crisis lifeline, which can be reached at 988. Let's get into the rules.Jeff, it is always a pleasure to see you, especially on the week where you were nominated for a James Beard Award for your writing. How you feeling?[00:01:08] Jeff It's very gratifying, Darin. Thank you for asking about that. The Beard Nomination is for a story that truly is an example of collaboration and listening. A piece about rice and history, and it had a dual byline, but with whom I wrote it and reported it is George McCallman. And George is an old friend of mine of 30 years. And it was just a beautiful process to go to South Carolina and interview people together. You know what's an interesting aspect of this, Darin? I was just down in Laguna Beach visiting my parents. I was staying overnight in this guest room where I live. Back in 1991, 1992, when I could not find a job.[00:01:42] Darin When you first got into the business of getting started, did you realize all the ups and downs and the emotions that were gonna come with dedicating your life to this?[00:01:50] Jeff I was sending out my resume and my clips, and I would get this steady stream of rejection letters from newspapers and magazines around the country. I just hit some real lows, you know? And I thought, this is never gonna work out. I'll never find work as a writer. And revisiting that space, Darin and going back in that room, at the same time, I finally got a James Beard Foundation Award nomination. I mean, it was just fascinating. It was fascinating to contemplate that, the power of not giving up. And there were also certain practices that I undertook in 1991, personally, to combat the blues. That's really where it started for me, this five-step practice that you and I are going to discuss. I realized I can trace it back to when I was in my early 20s. And I just took very intentional steps to try and feel better, very much on my mind right now. These are more suggestions than rules because I am not a doctor, I'm not a therapist, of course. And these are not meant to be substitutioned for medication or therapy to the extent that a person would need that. That deeply resonates with me.[00:02:50] Darin It is really important to understand how to pick yourself up in this world, especially if you have dedicated your life to being a creative. I myself over the last few years, especially as I have more and more work at my computer, have realized that physical activity is a huge part of helping to get my mind right. What is rule one for you? The very first[00:03:09] Jeff one is just take walks. I go for very aggressive, extensive walks to the extent one recently was about seven hours long on a Sunday.[00:03:18] Darin Oh, when you said long walks, I envisioned an hour, maybe two if the weather's nice.[00:03:23] Jeff That's a wonderful thing to do. And I do that as well. In fact, as soon as you and I stop talking, I'm going to go for a walk through Culver City and probably up the 282 steps to the Baldwin Hills scenic overlook. But sometimes I just decide to walk around the neighborhood, go get a green tea at Undergrind. I have found that just moving seems to move around your feelings, right? Like it moves around your brain. It certainly helps with my writing. I find that when I go walking around, ideas just emerge. Oh yeah. And I also find that if I begin the day with the walk, it creates this template that's just[00:03:58] Darin I agree. I got up and played tennis this morning and I already know it's going to be a better day than when I just go and sit down at my computer. But with every exertion, there needs to come a rest to find that right balance. What is rule number two?[00:04:11] Jeff Well, rule number two, and I'm sorry to come off as so normcore here, but you've got to get your sleep. Now, I have four children, so I'm sounding very much like a father right now. I have come to believe that there really aren't many cures in life better than a deep night's In fact, Darin, just yesterday, I did not sleep well. We'll get to rule number three soon and I'll explain why. Well basically I let myself have a martini to celebrate this James Beard Foundation nomination and as a result, when I got out of bed, I could not meet a deadlock. I just, my brain was not there. Last night, I went to sleep early after the little guys went to bed. Didn't have anything to drink, didn't overeat. I slept so deeply, woke up at six. And guess what? The story was done by nine this morning. I'm also a big fan of the rest as resistance movement like Trisha Hershey and other writers. 100%. Your creative work in particular has to be nourished by rest. Otherwise you burn out.[00:05:09] Darin I think if there was a slogan on our family crest, it would be napping as an act of resistance. Oh, I love it. You alluded to this in rule two, and I think for rule three, you either discover it in a healthy way or you come to discover it a hard way.[00:05:25] Jeff What is rule number three? Take breaks from alcohol and cannabis. And I know I sound very puritanical here and I don't mean to. I'm a food writer. I do drink still. I have not encountered this truth in a hard way. I have had issues with addiction. I have friends who have. That struggle is intense and is a different struggle. What I have dealt with as a professional food writer is something you've encountered. I'm sure you have access to endless pouring of wine and beer and spirits and sake. It is very easy. Not even tempting, just easy to come to it, to surrender to that. And the blunt truth we know is that alcohol and cannabis are depressive. It has been my experience that when they're used day after day, that repetition deepens the blues and there's no way around it. You will get more depressed in early spring, 2020 and just stopped altogether. I didn't drink for about two years. I didn't have any drinks at all. It was, as everyone says, so clarifying, so refreshing, lost weight. Got deeper sleep. My writing got better. The blues kind of whisked away, you know? Yeah. I have since gotten to a point of kind of careful moderation. Sure. Obviously, because of my role at Esquire and other publications, I do have to sip things and try things, and I'm happy to. I like an ice cold martini now and then. I think at this point, Darin, it's once or twice a month I'll have a drink, and I feel better. The clarity is the most amazing thing. The beauty of the morning when you don't feel any headache whatsoever, there's no better feeling. You wake up the next morning like a new person, reborn.[00:07:00] Darin Once you've taken care of yourself, you've walked, you slept, you haven't imbibed, you're really ready to face the world. What is rule number four?[00:07:09] Jeff See your friends in the real world. Don't just text with them, don't just talk to them on the phone. I have found it so nourishing to be very intentional about getting together with my friends. And I've noticed this happening as a different kind of act of resistance and rest and healing. I have seen this happening, Darin, all around the country with all different friends. My friend Clancy Miller, she's doing a book about picnics. She does these very intentional picnicks throughout New York City. She'll gather a bunch of friends. And I actually have a dinner series with Nastasia Lopez here in LA called Fun House. And it's the same idea. Let's get creative people around the table, musicians, artists, writers, chefs, have some good food, maybe we'll hear some music, maybe somebody will recite a poem, who knows what will happen, but being intentional, making a point of getting together in a physical way around the table, breaking bread, or going for a walk together, or go for a schvitz together, the ancient sages are not wrong about that, community matters. There's a lot of that Blue Zones longevity research that suggests people live a long time not just because of what they eat but because of how they live. Other people in Sardinia or Okinawa or Costa Rica, there's a real sense of community there and people gather with family and friends. Festivals and feasts and dances. As I near 60,

Darin sits down with Lien Ta—restaurateur, organizer, and one of the guiding lights of L.A.’s hospitality community. From Here’s Looking At You to Regarding Her, Lien shares her five essential rules for building community with intention, generosity, and just a little bit of magic. It’s a heartfelt, honest conversation about showing up, paying attention, and creating space for connection—both inside a restaurant and far beyond its walls. If you've ever wondered how to turn a dining room into a neighborhood, this one’s for you.Our Altadena community needs your support! We are requesting Comprehensive Testing and Remediation at AAM Following the Eaton Fire. Despite some surface testing for ash, soot, and char, the interior testing completed by PUSD to date is insufficient given the scale and nature of the fire. Nearby soil has already shown confirmed lead contamination, and numerous reports of hazardous toxins, including lead, were detected indoors near the Eaton Fire—even in buildings that had already undergone remediation.Please help us by signing the petition and keeping everyone aware of the ongoing situation![00:00:00] Darin Hello and welcome to five rules for the good life. I'm your host. Darin Bresnitz. Today, we sit down with one of my favorite people in the Los Angeles food scene, Lynn Ta. You may know her from some of her incredible restaurants, All Day Baby. Here's looking at you and as one of the magnetic forces behind regarding her. Today, she shares her five rules about how to build a community. We chat about what it means to. Show up for others. How to build something bigger than yourself. The art- of bringing people together and why she loves magic. So let's get into the rules. Lynn, so good to see you. Always a bright spot in my day when we get to sit down and have a conversation.[00:00:45] Lien Ta Oh, likewise, Darin. Thank you for having me.[00:00:47] Darin When I think of the L.A. Food community, few people sit at the top in my mind like you do. What is it like to be a part of the LA food community and what does it mean to you?[00:00:57] Lien Ta I actually have to say that I did not expect to be at the top of a community. It certainly wasn't my intention when I set forth to opening a first restaurant in 2016. But how it feels is it's a privilege, it's an honor. If I am truly there, then I take it quite seriously. It's important to me that I actually act out this role or these values of mine, and it feels good.[00:01:19] Darin It should feel good. And the last few months, how the last few years have really shown how important community is in the restaurant space. Now, I think when you open a restaurant, community is a big part of what you're building as well with here's looking at you and all day baby, how have you considered building community while you build a new restaurant?[00:01:37] Lien Ta I think the goal of opening a restaurant is so lofty as it is. Once you get your doors open, you start to realize, one, you're building a community within the four walls of your restaurant with your staff and the kinds of folks that you're hiring, the energy that you're hoping to cultivate, and the service that we're trying to provide to our guests. And I think over time, I come to realize oh, we're a meeting ground for our guests And hopefully our guests are bringing maybe a second person or another pair of folks to have dinner and then that in itself is building community and then suddenly they're speaking to the strangers next to you sitting at the bar and all of that. And then we build that trust that they can return to our restaurant.[00:02:18] Darin Yeah, I think it's really important to not just create a space, but to be a part of it as well, which can sometimes feel like the same thing, but a really two separate things. So without further ado, I'd like to get into your five rules of building community, what's the first rule.[00:02:30] Lien Ta My first rule is give first. It's so much about being generous with what you decided that you are bringing about, like your service, this restaurant, this kind of food, and really providing this space. It really is about being generally. You just have to set that foundation and build the hospitality on your home turf before you even start thinking about a broader community or growth or anything like that.[00:02:56] Darin Listen, opening up a restaurant is giving so much of yourself in the first place. And part of that comes in understanding what you need to get, which ties directly into rule two.[00:03:05] Lien Ta Rule two, it's about paying attention. The other day I was at a children's talent show.[00:03:10] Darin Mmm.[00:03:11] Lien Ta My friend, who is eight, was going on stage and singing a song with her two colleagues or peers, and I could see how nervous they were. But thinking how brave it was. So I was telling the story to a friend and they were saying, you know, Lynn, you're so good at paying attention. And so I think when you start to see who are the people that are gravitating towards, in my case, my restaurant, I do, I wanna pay attention and think about the strengths and the interests and the desires of each individual employee or each individual guest so that I can find ways to better relate to them and provide. It really starts from being a good listener and really noticing the different gifts people around you are offering and what you can also give back so that you can form those meaningful connections.[00:03:56] Darin That's so beautiful. Understanding what certain people need is one of the great aspects of being a restaurant owner, especially front of house, like you are, and recognizing that everybody needs something individual is a very special skill.[00:04:08] Lien Ta You know, as a parent, it's so much about caring, and the caroel almost has to be infinite. And with community, it really is such a core part of what it even means and to really care, you gotta pay attention.[00:04:22] Darin That infinite well of caring and giving to others ties into rule number three.[00:04:28] Lien Ta Yes, so rule number three is about recognizing others and showing up for others. I just think it's so important to make people feel seen. Make people feel heard. And a lot of that is just actually verbalizing and showing how much that person means to you or cares for you or how gifted they are in that role and really providing that kind of validation. You may not even know these people very well.[00:04:54] Darin Uh-huh.[00:04:55] Lien Ta Like, I have these guests. They're fairly new regulars of mine. They've been coming in as a couple. And the truth is, is I truly didn't know them that well. Elizabeth and Jay are their names. They came to our Halloween party. They dressed up. Long and short of it is, I found out one of them is a magician. And they're gonna have a magic show at the end of next week, and it's to benefit families that have been affected by the wildfires.[00:05:16] Darin Amazing.[00:05:17] Lien Ta I'm obsessed with magic. It's one of those few cases where you really can let go and not have a reason or understanding how something happens. So I'm gonna be there. Yeah. I had to buy tickets and like you know and all of this stuff and really just showing up for them even if we don't yet have a fully established foundation of a friendship but they are in my community. It feels so good to push that event out and hopefully get other magic enthusiasts to join along.[00:05:43] Darin I've always been a big fan of showing up for others and it's extremely important at the start of a relationship. If you can and when you can't show up for somebody has a very long lasting effect.[00:05:53] Lien Ta Yes. Were so passionate about the food industry and the restaurant industry, and there were so many years or decades where I was not a restaurant owner, but I just had to be a restaurant lover and really show that and go and visit these restaurants, whether now be my very good but before, it's just about showing them that I support. This incredible feat that they've created and I'm there to show up and be hungry.[00:06:17] Darin It's how we met. Yes, it is. It's we became friends.[00:06:20] Lien Ta Exactly.[00:06:20] Darin Being a restaurant lover and now being a restaurateur, part of being in a community and building community is providing a service, which is your rule number four.[00:06:29] Lien Ta Yes, providing service and and providing what I even would call access. I thought of this word because I was thinking about my friend Patrick Q.[00:06:38] Darin Mm-hmm.[00:06:38] Lien Ta In 2018, he reached out to me like a cold request, I guess, I mean, we weren't friends, but I knew him by reputation as the longtime restaurant critic of Los Angeles magazine. And he basically said, I'd like to write a book about what it takes to become a restaurateur. That was actually the title of the book. And I was wondering if I could spend time with you a year exactly. After it was done, I asked him why is it that he asked me to be the subject of this book. And he said, honestly, it was about access.[00:07:06] Darin Hmm.[00:07:07] Lien Ta You seem to be someone that is transparent and approachable and all of these things. You know, I really took that to heart when Patrick said that to me. And it is always my goal to be approachable. Like if someone 10, 15 years younger than me, Asian woman, for example, trying to start her own food business feels like she can reach out to me via direct message. I would like to hear from you. I can't necessarily help everyone.[00:07:31] Darin Sure.[00:07:32] Lien Ta Thinking about the resources that you are able to share and being helpful in all of those things. If you can even provide that service, if you're doing too much for strangers, are you still being available to your community? So it is this very delicate balance of being as authentically available as you can be to both sides.[00:07:49] Darin Being available, providing access is a huge

This week on Five Rules for the Good Life, Michelin-starred Chef Cheng Lin of Shota Omakase, talks about his journey from summer job to sushi master, which is a lesson in patience, precision, and passion. He shares the hard-earned rules behind his craft: self-taught knife skills, years of research, and the quiet power of knowing where your fish comes from. It’s less about flash and more about focus. If you’ve ever wondered what it takes to dedicate your life to one thing and still love it decades later, these rules are for you.[00:00:00] Darin Welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I'm your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, we are joined by Michelin star, sushi master, Chef Chang Lin, who is the owner and chef at Shota Omakase in Williamsburg. We chat about his 30-year commitment to perfecting the art of sushi making, how he continuously pushes himself to learn more, and the importance of creating culture at any sushi restaurant. Let's get into the rules. [00:30:00] Darin Chef, thank you for coming by the show. It's really great to have you on. Cheng Thank you, it's my pleasure to be here. Darin I've always wanted to ask, especially since I know that the road to becoming a sushi chef, especially one at your level, is such a long journey. What drew you to it? How did you get started?[00:00:45] Cheng My first starting was teenage kids looking for a summer job, so my first job was working at a sushi restaurant here.[00:00:54] Cheng In New York City. That's how I started learning any sushi coaching.[00:00:57] Darin Was there any plan at the beginning or did you just fall into it?[00:01:01] Cheng No.[00:01:01] Cheng At the beginning, he was written in...[00:01:03] Cheng Find a job, you see, that's wrong. It wasn't a friendly at the beginning.[00:01:07] Darin How long were you working at a sushi restaurant? Did you start to realize that you really loved it?[00:01:13] Cheng It takes me a few years actually, about three years. I was lucky to working with many great Japanese chefs at the beginning, but you know, I was young and I wasn't knowing much about sushi because in China I never eat sushi before I came to the United States before I started working in a sushi restaurant. It takes about three year for me to start more understanding about sushi, where is sushi, what is so different about sushi. Even my first bite of sushi was three years later. It was amazing. It tastes so great. Then I started to do more research about sushi. At the time that I was working at the restaurant that where my co-worker who has this book called Sushi no Soda, where I've been reading it, it really got me into about sushi[00:01:57] Darin You worked at some of New York's most legendary sushi places, Blue Ribbon, Edo Tribeca. What was it like working at those restaurants during the rise of sushi's popularity?[00:02:10] Cheng Every sushi restaurant, every sushi culture restaurant is very different. So I'm learning so much from every single individual person that I'm working with from every restaurant.[00:02:22] Darin When did you realize it was time for you to go out on your own and open up your own restaurant, Shota Omokase?[00:02:29] Cheng I always dream about to have sushi restaurant one day if I can own my own sushi shop.[00:02:34] Darin The thing that I love about your journey is that you started from never having sushi, not knowing much about it to now being a Michelin star sushi restaurant. So I'd love for you to share your five rules on how to become a sushi chef. And the first one starts with learning about sushi as a food and as a culture.[00:02:53] Cheng First of all, we need to understand about what really we are doing. If you want to become a good sushi chef, you need to have a lot of education, knowing about every ingredient, nice skills, self-education. Back then, when I was studying learning sushi, chefs normally, they don't really teach you how exactly to make every single thing. They will tell you, for example, making this sauce, and they will tell your ingredient, but they won't tell you the result, so you need figure it out yourself. If you're a person who really wants to learn learning, it's a lot of time-spending, self-education, a lot attention became a sucess. I think this is the number one rule. You need to have very self-motivated learning. If you don't have self-motivation to learning, I don't think it's gonna be easy to gain.[00:03:40] Darin Sushi show. Understanding the background of it and the desire to put in that time is so important to mastering any sort of skill. But another huge part of sushi comes down to the preparation and the knife work. So can you talk to me about rule two?[00:03:56] Cheng The knife skill, so as it is, it's about time, how much time you spend on it. So it's not about how long you've been doing it, it's how much you spend it. Time, it means something to it, but the spending a lot of time on it is more important. So you need to be hands-on to do everything, not just by watching.[00:04:13] Darin That time comes with a dedication, especially when you know that there's so many master sushi chefs out there. What is rule three?[00:04:22] Cheng The person to be working in sushi restaurant, especially high-end or makase restaurant, be a detailed attention, prettiness is very important. In order to get to that level, first of all, you need to have training yourself very well, make sure everything you're dancing from gets that is more professionally done because there's no mistake to make.[00:04:39] Cheng Mhm.[00:04:40] Cheng Once you start working at a counter, there's no excuse for it. Everything has to be getting done at the time, at the moment, because everybody watching you. So cleanliness is very, very super important. And of course, experience from yourself is important, everything you're learning, even so to the people.[00:04:56] Darin You bring up being at a counter, serving the customer and interacting with them. So much about sushi is the food, but also everything around it. What is rule four?[00:05:05] Cheng Rule for knowing everything what we're serving. There's two types of sushi come here, right? So you go to regular sushi restaurant, you're eating sushi, chef making, putting the blade, serving you, here you go, that's your sushi. And there's another way, which is guests coming, they want to know, okay, where this fish come from, where it come from? How you make it? This for me is more about. You can have your own sushi culture. Educate your guests. Before doing that, you need to educate yourself and make sure that everything you're serving, everything you getting, is going to be special. Everything that guests have, you know where everything get from. I think this is very important.[00:05:43] Darin Being able to create your own culture at Shota Omakase is so special and so important, but you're also always evolving. How does that tie into rule number five?[00:05:53] Cheng Not just serving the sushi, it's more about education. I think it's important that every guest knows where everything comes from. So learning every background, the fishes, the ingredients you're getting from a survey is very, very important. It's a lot more self-education and you need to do a lot of research to learn about it. Because the in In rational engineering, the chef doesn't have much time to teach every single thing, so it's important that we need to spend our own time learning about it. But luckily for us today, we have the internet. You never stop learning. That's the only way. When you think about in 30, 40 years, you're doing one thing in your life. Are you getting bored someday?[00:06:32] Cheng Yes. Of course.[00:06:33] Cheng A lot of people give up because they just need something new, but we talk about passion. Passion is more about the relax of the patient and it may pay off one day, it may not. We're very lucky what we're doing today. I'm very lucky with what I'm doing today and I do one thing that I like for my life. Important, continue learning, make it interesting. It's not just serving sushi, it's more about with the guests. It's all about relationships from everybody.[00:06:59] Darin It's a beautiful thing to find something, to come to something in life and dedicate so much time to it and to still love it. 30 years later, it's a very rare thing.[00:07:09] Cheng That's why it's lucky, so I'm very happy about it.[00:07:12] Darin Chef, congratulations. Thank you so much for sharing your rules. If people want to come visit the restaurant or if they want to follow along and see what fish you're serving or what seasonal ingredients, where can they go?[00:07:23] Cheng They can go to our restaurant's Instagram account. We regularly post in our seasonal ingredients at SodaOmakase.com or they can follow my personal Instagram account, which is[00:07:35] Darin Sushi chef, Chang Ming. Amazing. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your five rules on how to become a sushi chef. I hope one day that I get to sit across your counter from you someday soon.[00:07:46] Cheng Yeah, you're more than welcome to come in. Hopefully we can meet in person soon.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe