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Join Sabba Keynejad (co-founder of VEED.io) and Charlie Ward (founder of Ramen Club) as they dive deep into the world of startups, AI, and the latest tech trends. These two legends of the London indie scene bring their no-nonsense, real-world insights to help founders, builders, and indie hackers navigate the highs and lows of entrepreneurship. Expect candid conversations, actionable takeaways, and the occasional hot take on where the future of business is headed.
Whether you're bootstrapping your way to success or scaling your next big idea, Napkin Math is your go-to podcast for unfiltered discussions on what it really takes to win in the startup game.
Whether you're bootstrapping your way to success or scaling your next big idea, Napkin Math is your go-to podcast for unfiltered discussions on what it really takes to win in the startup game.
20 Episodes
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After a mini hiatus the boys are back with a banger. 5 startup idea frameworks you can use to start the next unicorn or profitable bootstrapped business. Plus, they inadvertently start the Ben Tossell fan club, and talk about making the UK rich again.00:00 Napkin Math - Startup Idea Frameworks01:43 Startup idea framework 1 - copy your competitors06:23 Framework 2 - build an indirect competitor09:02 Framework 3 - build for a growing trend16:18 Framework 4 - build for new regulations19:54 Framework 4 - build an Open Source competitor26:48 Are any frameworks better for bootstrappers?30:20 Do you need in-market experience before building in that market?31:45 Characteristics of successful founders33:43 The end of Claude Code?35:42 The Ben Tossell fan club39:23 Make Britain Rich Again - Forest City
After spending weeks in hospital with a broken leg, Charlie has had plenty of time to think about B2B SaaS lessons for the pod, and he delivers. The chaps also chat about VEED's new CTO hire, their Fabric 1.0 launch and brainstorm existing businesses that could inject AI to get to $100m quickly.Timestamps:00:00 Intro02:07 B2B SaaS lessons from breaking your leg19:50 Why VEED hired a new CTO25:15 VEED Fabric Launch32:03 Existing companies that could inject AI35:29 Shift to usage based billing39:48 Why courses are hatedLinks:Napkin MathVEEDRamen ClubCosyRamen Space
Today Sabba and Charlie break down the Figma IPO and speculate on which company will be the next Figma. They question whether the chat interface for AI is outdated, and debate if DeepMind might be the greatest acquisition of all time, plus who’s most likely to win the AGI race. They also dig into the UK’s online safety act, why VPNs are booming, and wrap up with a very cheeky “recording blocker” startup idea.00:00 Intro01:21 Figma IPO10:32 Who will be the next Figma17:25 "Tea app", Uber for X, Tinder for X etc...27:25 Is the chat interface for AI archaic?31:08 Is DeepMind the best acquisition of all time?34:29 Who will win AGI?37:01 UK's online safety act and the business of VPNs45:50 Recording blocker free startup idea
Sabba talks about how he uses ChatGPT, Charlie talks use cases for Claude Code and the duo debate whether the UK is an impossible place to bootstrap. Sabba also share lessons on hiring top talent early, and dissect Duolingo’s $1billion freemium play (with a 15% churn rate) before comparing it to VEED’s freemium vs free trial approach.00:00 Intro00:28 How a VC-backed founder uses ChatGPT06:52 Use cases of Claude Code13:25 Napkin Math AI Animation16:14 Is the UK impossible to bootstrap?20:34 Hiring great talent early on25:31 Duolingo's $1billion freemium approach with 15% churn36:04 VEEDs approach to freemium vs free trial
The boys are back talking about Loveable's insane growth and $200m raise, the dangers of founder liquidity, plus more AI chat (of course). Charlie turns Sabba into BusinessGuruGPT prompting him with how he'd grow an eSIM business to $1m in a year. All this, and more, in this week's episode of NAPKIN MATH.Timestamps00:00 Intro00:30 Loveable raises $200m05:58 Jason Lemkin's Replit disaster09:38 Takeaways from Loveable's raise and the future of AI companies15:53 Generative content opportunities18:19 Making £1m from e-sims30:17 Founder liquidity40:14 Focusing on a single growth channel45:25 Are AI influencers important in the future of marketing48:34 Should we be worried about the AI backlash?53:30 The seasonality of SaaS
Sabba and Charlie kick things off with some napkin math on how to make £26k per year in pure profit selling fans, then dive into a the real money maker; an AI automation consultancy. They talk about the rise of the “VEED (or Indie Beers) Mafia,” and discuss JB's Ahrefs-style tool for LLMs. 00:00 Intro00:20 Portable fan Napkin Math09:22 Startup idea: AI automation consultancy15:28 AI for marketing17:40 The VEED Mafia (Indie Beers Mafia)19:41 Ahrefs for LLMs25:16 Why in person events are so important28:20 The new Perplexity browser36:05 Why Charlie is pausing his SaaS
After a hiatus that included a weekend at Glastonbury and a failed recording, the boys are back, and they are on fire. They break down the business of the Glastonbury festival and some new startup ideas around it, they talk about the Figma S1 filing and the insane numbers behind the software platform and Charlie talks about the future of Ramen Space potentially becoming a nation state.
On this episode of Napkin Math, Sabba and Charlie explain why “small bets” are a terrible idea for most founders. They unpack how VEED ranks #1 for “AI video generator” (and other competitive keywords), explore Ben’s idea for a dream analysis app, the surprising business case for astrology, and how AI agents could thrive in markets like Nigeria. Sabba also shares why he believes the global adoption of stablecoins is inevitable.Timestamps:00:00 Intro00:51 Small bets vs single focus11:03 How VEED ranks number one for highly competitive keywords18:32 Ben's dream analysis app23:48 The business of astrology29:25 AI agent app in developing markets (Nigeria)37:17 The adoption of stable coins globally is inevitable - Sabba41:26 Quick fire round
There’s been a major catfight on the internet this week: Trump vs. Elon. So, Charlie did what any good podcast host would do and distilled the best lessons SaaS founders can take from the drama. The guys also share feedback from listeners, chat about opportunities in TikTok Shop, discuss why companies need to reinvent themselves, and of course, Charlie gets Sabba into trouble.Timestamps00:00 - Intro00:32 - B2B lessons from Trump x Musk fallout03:41 - Napkin Math guest feedback12:51 - When did VEED get product market fit15:15 - VEED's 24 hour hackathon18:24 - Why companies need to reinvent themselves25:28 - The future of AI for VEED and 11 Labs31:55 - Business opportunities in TikTok Shop43:07 - Will ChatGPT be the operating system for AI?45:56 - Evolution of seat based billing
Fresh off the launch of VEEDs new AI, Sabba is excited about the company having built their own fully fledged AI model, so breaks down how much it cost to build it. Charlie, meanwhile has had some bad news about his SaaS app, Cosy, potentially being killed off by Slack's new restrictions. The chaps also fire off some "Loveable for X" business ideas, with the main opportunity in gaming.00:00 Intro00:30 VEED AI video launch 06:17 How much does it cost to build VEEDs AI video engine13:05 Platform risk for Charlie's app, Cosy21:44 Is Apple's 30% cut a good thing?28:38 Lovable for X business ideas40:58 VEEDs hackathon
The boys have made it to 10 episodes, somehow. They are still talking about AI, this time after the impressive Google Gemini launch they discuss the possibilities (including getting a new podcast co-host). Sabba talks about the pastries he had at 10 Downing Street and if they think Jony Ive's $6bn Open AI deal is worth it.Timestamps00:00 Intro00:39 Google's new AI launch09:12 Future challenges of AI video16:29 AI powered podcasts24:02 Claude 4 release27:43 Jony Ive x Sam Altman37:48 Sabba's Downing Street breakfast43:17 Charlie talks AI agents with Monzo ex-CTO
Charlie is back from Dracula's castle and Sabba is back from running a marathon. They are both arriving inspired. They do some Napkin Math on the economics of the running industry and the opportunities there, and how long it will be before they can pump out daily Dracula movies.Timestamps:00:00 Intro04:00 Marathon running breakdown and opportunties12:35 Runna acquisition Napkin Math25:18 Building interesting things vs networking28:31 How to stick to ideas40:08 How long before we can make feature length AI films54:32 Ramen Club launch party
After 7 beautiful episodes, the MRR show is dead. But fear not, Napkin Math is born from its ashes. Sabba and Charlie discuss the performance of the show, dig into where Sabba invests his angel money, do a business breakdown (some actual napkin math) before going on a tirade on founders why founders aren't working hard enough...Timestamps00:00 Intro00:23 New podcast name05:27 Podcast growth numbers16:22 Listener Labs napkin math23:49 Sabba's angel investing strategy28:03 Sabba's lunch hack36:23 How hard do founders need to work?46:50 Long term vs short term revenue
Sabba is tired after being at a trade show all week for VEED, but was it worth it? Sabba and Charlie discuss the cost and results. But there's nothing better than a pick me up recording with BBQ crisp-eating Charlie Ward, who finally has some MRR for his SaaS app. The chaps talk all things AI, opportunities, SaaS drama and more.Timestamps00:00 Intro01:20 How much does a SaaS trade show cost?05:56 What makes an entertaining video according to VEED09:32 Rippling vs Deel drama update11:29 AI image generation opportunities16:24 Sabba gets upset19:30 Cool opportunities in the AI image generation space22:13 AI products to help user research28:35 Other AI ideas32:08 Will we get AI fatigue?33:01 Scam call curiosity35:34 Loveable 2.0 release43:41 Charlie has some MRR46:33 Matthew McConaughey's audiobook
Sabba went to Sri Lanka and came back with fire in his belly. He's ready to make money from the tariffs and so he discusses with Charlie how he'd do it. This got them thinking about the lack of energy in the US at the moment, and why they're bullish on the UK as a place to build. They wrap up talking about the biggest mega trend to make money with in 2025.Timestamps00:00 - Intro00:27 What Sabba learned about business in Sri Lanka03:10 VEED's billboard ad cost and results07:38 Tariffs chat11:33 Making money from the tariffs15:25 Europe vs USA vs UK20:34 The evolution of "make something people search for"23:27 Sabba's mega trend - AI wrappers32:17 The future of AI products37:50 Charlie's coworking space update44:49 Charlie's vending machine business
B2B SaaS drama has got spicy recently, with both 11x and Deel making headlines. Sabba and Charlie give their take on why the companies got in hot water and if it's justified. Sabba also gives his thoughts on the future of VEED as they storm towards their $100m ARR goal and what happens next for the company.Timestamps00:00 MRR Show 00501:06 Harry Dry's marketing course08:02 The 11x drama14:16 Deel drama17:50 Do you need an audience?24:55 Loom exit31:55 The future of VEED35:01 Studio Ghibli virality39:47 The future of AI image generation
This week Sabba and Charlie still struggle to get their audio recorded properly* but the content is top notch. Dubbed the UK's answer to My First Million, the two kick off with debating if the UK is better than the US for building a startup. Sabba questions Charlie's sanity starting a coworking space in London, before explaining how much VEED spent on bright green advertising on the NYC subway.00:00 Intro00:04 Charlie almost gets robbed by a creative director03:25 Is the UK a good place to build a startup?16:09 What to do when you're successful but unhappy24:45 Charlie's new coworking space38:34 One thing vs multiple projects44:33 Breakdown of VEED's NYC subway ad*(salty Producer James writing this)
Charlie and Sabba are back three weeks later for their weekly podcast, bringing you some banger business ideas. The chaps dive into Exploding Topics and discuss opportunities in ADHD, creating a Third Space style martial arts gym and building a better dentist. They're also bullish on Project Europe.Timestamps:00:00 Intro02:39 VC fund for consumer brands05:23 Charlie's consumer trend idea22:45 Innovating in the health space24:48 High end martial arts gym33:38 AI Agents43:18 Model Context Protocol49:24 Project Europe
Charlie and Sabba are back, fighting through a challenging remote connection, bringing you a cracking set of business ideas. Charlie brings a few interesting product discoveries from Indie Beers in Lisbon and Sabba stumbled across a $5-10k MRR idea while in a Ford Fiesta.Timestamps00:00 The MRR Show ep 201:28 D*ck measuring app03:52 Funeral directory business08:16 Feedback on episode 113:48 Car error code business idea23:02 How to find new business ideas
Hello and welcome to the pilot episode of The MRR Show, with Charlie Ward and Sabba Keynejad. Charlie is the founder of Ramen Club and Sabba is the co-founder of VEED.io. The duo are coming together for this pilot episode, to share their thoughts on SaaS, tech and startups, from the perspective of two successful founders with Charlie being the heart of the london indie community and Sabba running an 8 figure VC backed SaaS. AI is a prominent feature in this first episode, talking about meetups, fine tuning LLMs and being able to talk to your dog.Timestamps00:00 - Intro01:35 - AI Events04:30 - is Meetup full of grifters?08:18 - Who is going to be the next billion $ company?11:18 - Competing against AI16:56 - How to capitilise on the AI tool trend24:19 - Character.ai30:37 - Fine tuning LLMs35:44 - Loveable for X37:46 - Build something people search for41:12 - Micro tool strategy46:46 - Should you have a free plan 50:34 - Peach.ai52:12 - Sabba's local sauna
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